Third Party & Independents Archives

California Camp Fire - The Carbon Suits are Coming

One broken steel hook on an aging transmission tower might have been the cause of the Camp Fire that quickly and ferociously spread and took 85 lives a few weeks ago in Central California near the Bay area. How do we know this?

Lawyers working up the evidence in order to sue PG&E for the disaster, by blaming the utility for not investing enough in physical maintenance of the aging parts of its infrastructure. The steel hook in question apparently held up a high-voltage power line and snapped during a wind storm on November 8th. So attorneys Dario de Ghetaldi and Frank Pitre and surely dozens more high-priced lawyers specializing in suing large utilities are working hard to get the details out in the open and allow them to start shaming and blaming PG&E into paying up what will be billions in damages should any suit be successful.

If the lawyers behind the Chevron-Ecuador lawsuit - except Steve Donziger who's reportedly lost his license to practice in New York and D.C. in what was basically described as extorsion racket - decide to get involved in order to squeeze a little money from a major utility, they could end up demanding tens of billions in damages. Every oil company, every cattle farmer, every company that emits any sort of greenhouse gas, everyone who has a car. All of us guilty of the deaths in California. Someone like Donziger might not put it quite those terms ... actually they almost certainly would. So every major corporation around the globe, and every major government around the world would have to contribute towards those damages. And that would just be the start.

Never mind the carbon tax. Mind the carbon suits.

Is this the way it's supposed to work?

Is California prone to droughts? Yes. Has a warmer drier climate in parts of America made wildfires more difficult to control lately - at least sometimes? Yes. Do manmade greenhouse gases cause any of this? Yes ... but to what extent? Does population growth, that is economic development, cause this?

Well, let's return to that aging transmission tower. It's apparently nearly 100 years old. That would mean it was put up after the end of WW I. Either we blame a 100-year old tower for being inadequately maintained - in which case we need more workers driving more trucks and vans and using more equipment produced in more factories that do emit some greenhouse gases and having those workers live in homes that are built in areas where there is either some brush or trees or both. In which case we need more growth not less in order to maintain and keep our infrastructure safe. And prevent future wildfires from becoming natural disasters.

Or we blame people for building homes and having jobs. In which case the steel hook is just a detail and the real problem is the fact that there are even power lines anywhere at all in California when there should just be pines and brush and creeks and no people.

The coming lawsuits will play both sides of these arguments, however, and will do so as they demand billions and billions in dollars that were generated by selling an essential service, electricity, to people out West.

Never mind all the hypocrisy. The carbon suits are coming.

Posted by AllardK at December 7, 2018 1:26 PM
Comments
Comment #435444

GMAFB, people were cremated alive and you’re worried about a power company being sued. Nice priorities! The Camp Fire was in a reich wing area, where they don’t want to pay for anything.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 7, 2018 2:45 PM
Comment #435446

Does anyone question why we need a lawyer to get into a courtroom?

If you were to file a suit and not employ a lawyer, would your case be discriminated against because of a lack of education, or perhaps making a foolish decision?


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 7, 2018 3:57 PM
Comment #435447

Here’s a apropos song for ohrealy.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 7, 2018 4:08 PM
Comment #435448

Yup, your song choice is excellent d.a.n.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 7, 2018 4:21 PM
Comment #435449
Weary Willie wrote: If you were to file a suit and not employ a lawyer, would your case be discriminated against because of a lack of education, or perhaps making a foolish decision?
Yes, because there are many procedures and rules that a lay person will not be aware of (such as submitting evidence). It would be wise to hire a lawyer if the charges are serious.
I represented myself in court once, and won. I objected to the police officer’s contradictions in testimony (i.e. the policer officer lied, which was obvious to everyone in the courtroom), and the judge “sustained” my objection, and the case was dismissed. However, the worse that could happen was that I would have to pay the traffic ticket.

By the way, I have not yet seen any evidence that PG&E was responsible for the fire.

ohrealy wrote: The Camp Fire was in a reich wing area, where they don’t want to pay for anything.
As usual, much of what ohrealy writes makes no sense. So, what does that mean? Is ohrealy blaming the “reich wing” people for not paying for more maintenance that may have prevented a fire?
See how ridiculous things get when you only see the world through “partisan-based lenses” ?

Posted by: d.a.n at December 7, 2018 4:26 PM
Comment #435450

Give a little taste of power to a radical Lefty and here is what happens. This dumb twit wouldn’t know the difference between an “ethic” and an “ethnic”.

Ocasio-Cortez Threatens To Retaliate Against Trump Jr. Over Meme, Twitter Explodes With Accusations Of Ethics Violations

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39160/ocasio-cortez-threatens-retaliate-against-trump-jr-ryan-saavedra

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 7, 2018 4:41 PM
Comment #435453

That definitely sounds like a threat by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who responded to Donald Trump Jr. on Twitter:

Please, keep it coming Jr - it’s definitely a “very, very large brain” idea to troll a member of a body that will have subpoena power in a month. Have fun!
HHMmmm … could be a good thing for Donald Trump Jr.?
The joke was funny about fear of socialism, because people want to walk their dogs, not eat them (perhaps because the people are starving, like in Venezuela?).

Posted by: d.a.n at December 7, 2018 5:54 PM
Comment #435457

Wow it doesn’t take long for you guys to rush to the defense of the bully, does it? Jr should know the difference between Democratic Socialism and Socialism but appears to be ignorant of the facts. Why is it conservatives act like European countries don’t exist? It is always Venezuela that exists.

But that is okay with conservatives because it was funny. The problem is it just wasn’t as funny as Ocasio-Cortez was in her response to the troll, so you all get angry and name call her.

There were no threats only jests both ways yet to hear you two clowns tell it poor Jr just can’t take a joke.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 7, 2018 8:45 PM
Comment #435469

j2t2, Where is the proof that PG&E is guilty?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote:

Please, keep it coming Jr - it’s definitely a “very, very large brain” idea to troll a member of a body that will have subpoena power in a month. Have fun!

j2t2, Numerous political analysts, commentators, and pundits did not see it as a mere “jest both ways”, and noted that Ocasio-Cortez’s comments likely constituted an ethics violation.

Official House Ethics Manual explicitly prohibits the kind of threat that @Ocasio2018 just issued against @DonaldJTrumpJr.

The prohibition states:

    Members and staff are not to take or withhold any official action on the basis of the campaign contributions or support of the involved individuals, or their partisan affiliation. Members and staff are likewise prohibited from threatening punitive action on the basis of such considerations.

Both seem pretty clear, except to j2t2 and similar ilk, who often seem to adhere to “Guilty until proven innocent” whenever it is convenient to their narratives.

But, again, it could be a good thing now for Donald Trump, Jr., because any future subpoena could be viewed as abuse of power.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 8, 2018 10:10 AM
Comment #435472

D.,
You seem to have forgotten how far Trump and the repubs have lowered the bar on ethics. I ask you how much has Jr contributed to or supported O-C? Your false ethics claim is fodder for the far right. Those butt hurt because Jr. can dish out the lies and insults but denies when confronted by those he bullies. O-C hasn’t threatened anybody. She simply put the idiot in his place.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 8, 2018 12:47 PM
Comment #435473

BTW D., has she been sworn into office? Are you suggesting she has violated some ethics prohibition before she is a member of Congress?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 8, 2018 12:48 PM
Comment #435476
When I become a cop, you’re going to always be looking over your shoulder
When I get my promotion, you better not screw up.
You’ll change your ways once we’re married.

I’m just putting some people in their place!

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 8, 2018 1:43 PM
Comment #435477

O-C’s comments are a perfect example of her election going to her head. She’s far too immature to hold on to the seat. With an attitude of me against the world she won’t last very long, nor should she.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 8, 2018 1:45 PM
Comment #435478

Four young, black women get elected and already they think they own the place, feeding off each other’s delusions of grandeur.


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 8, 2018 1:47 PM
Comment #435479

j2t2 is OK with abuse-of-power, but only IF it is by j2t2’s party.

The other Democrats will rein in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez , or she will probably manage to get herself in some serious trouble. However, the Democrats are not too good at policing their own (i.e. James Comey, Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, others in the DOJ, FBI, and IRS all looking the other way, and refusing to investigate or indict anyone in THEIR party).

Posted by: d.a.n at December 8, 2018 1:53 PM
Comment #435487

“You seem to have forgotten how far Trump and the repubs have lowered the bar on ethics.s”

j2t2 simply doesn’t get it, and never will.

The HOR has rules of “ethics”. These ethics don’t belong to any individual or political party. Members of the HOR agree to abide by certain rules governing ethics. One rule is; no threatening punitive action.

We are certain that j2t2 still doesn’t get it, but that’s OK. We will all try to help explain things to him as needed.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 8, 2018 5:28 PM
Comment #435498
Royal Flush wrote: We are certain that j2t2 still doesn’t get it, but that’s OK. We will all try to help explain things to him as needed.
Ha ha! Good luck with that.
Some things are simply not possible?
As hilariously ironic as it it, j2t2 repeatedly (like a broken record) accuses others of Cognitive Dissonance ?
Posted by: d.a.n at December 8, 2018 11:32 PM
Comment #435499
O-C’s comments are a perfect example of her election going to her head. She’s far too immature to hold on to the seat. With an attitude of me against the world she won’t last very long, nor should she.

Wow coming from a Trump supporter that is hilarious.

j2t2 is OK with abuse-of-power, but only IF it is by j2t2’s party.

BTW D., has she been sworn into office? Are you suggesting she has violated some ethics prohibition before she is a member of Congress?


Yet I’m the one that doesn’t get it! You a**hats are clueless.



Posted by: j2t2 at December 9, 2018 12:36 AM
Comment #435503
j2t2 wrote: BTW D., has she been sworn into office? Are you suggesting she has violated some ethics prohibition before she is a member of Congress?
Exactly. What part of that did you not understand?

It does not matter whether Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was not yet sworn-in. It was still a threat:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote: Please, keep it coming Jr - it’s definitely a “very, very large brain” idea to troll a member of a body that will have subpoena power in a month. Have fun!

But, again, it’s a good thing for Donald Trump Jr.

j2t2 finally wrote: Yet I’m the one that doesn’t get it!
Exactly. Now we finally agree on something.
Posted by: d.a.n at December 9, 2018 10:43 AM
Comment #435504

O-C is going to be a hand puppet for the next speaker. She will be on hand to scratch the speaker’s ass so the speaker doesn’t get his/her hand dirty. That’s what she’s going to be good for. No one will take her seriously.

Are we so sure her family didn’t exterminate the indigenous people of Mexico?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 9, 2018 10:45 AM
Comment #435507
It does not matter whether Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was not yet sworn-in. It was still a threat:

Were that a truthful statement D. it would seem the repubs would be putting her in front of the ethics committee…right? Instead, they are to busy rigging elections in NC and usurping power in Wisconsin and Michigan. It would also seem to me repubs should be investigating Jr for his role….oh wait no wonder you use this silliness to make false accusations. Trumps uber alles.

Too bad you guys don’t hold your own team to such lofty standards.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 9, 2018 11:39 AM
Comment #435509
j2t2 wrote: Too bad you guys don’t hold your own team to such lofty standards.
Oh, like James Comey, Loretta Lynch, and others in the DOJ, FBI, and IRS that ignored crimes on their team, and all of the these violations by Democraps by Democrats, and all of these lies by Obama and Democraps?
Yet, j2t2 asks others repeatedly: have you no decency?
Posted by: d.a.n at December 9, 2018 2:21 PM
Comment #435511

No D. Like Trump and his campaign team, his administration and the many repubs in Congress. Ya see D. had the dems and repubs you have been accusing here of doing such unethical things one would think they would have been investigated by the repub controlled HoR after Trump took office….yet nothing but false accusations by the far right and the Trumpettes.


Except of course those already investigated and cleared of the trumped-up conservative conspiracy theories you consider to be real. To bad after the investigations you and others still spout the3 nonsense.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 9, 2018 3:27 PM
Comment #435513

What is your opinion of this investigation, j2t2?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-formally-confirms-its-investigation-hillary-clintons-email-server

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 9, 2018 3:42 PM
Comment #435514

Right Weary Willy, it is not too late to pursue crimes by Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, and others in the DOJ, FBI, IRS, etc.

j2t2 wrote: … they would have been investigated by the repub controlled HoR after Trump took office…
However, there has already been one very important verdict, and fortunately, it was by the voters of the U.S.A., who chose not to elect crooked Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton still blames everyone but herself:

  • (1) James Comey: Hillary said: “If not for the dramatic intervention of the FBI director in the final days we would have won the White House.”
  • (2) Vladimir Putin: Hillary said: “I never imagined that he would have the audacity to launch a massive covert attack against our own democracy, right under our noses - and that he’d get away with it.”
  • (3) Barack Obama: Hillary said: “I do wonder sometimes about what would have happened if President Obama had made a televised address to the nation in the fall of 2016 warning that our democracy was under attack. Maybe more Americans would have woken up to the threat in time.”
  • (4) The Main Stream Media: Hillary said: “Many in the political media … can’t bear to face their own role in helping elect Trump, from providing him free airtime to giving my emails three times more coverage than all the issues affecting people’s lives combined.”
  • (5) Bernie Sanders and his supporters: Hillary said: “His attacks caused lasting damage, making it harder to unify progressives in the general election and paving the way for Trump’s ‘Crooked Hillary’ campaign.”
  • (6) Jill Stein: Hillary said: “There were more than enough Stein voters to swing the result, just like Ralph Nader did in Florida and New Hampshire in 2000.”
  • (7) Sexism: Hillary said: “This has to be said. Sexism and misogyny played a role in the 2016 presidential election. Exhibit A is that the flagrantly sexist candidate won.”
  • (8) Millions of White people: Hillary said: “He was quite successful in referencing a nostalgia that would give hope, comfort, settle grievances, for millions of people who were upset about gains that were made by others … millions of white people.”
  • (9) White Women: Hillary said: there was pressure on white women by their husbands to vote against Hillary.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 9, 2018 4:12 PM
Comment #435519
What is your opinion of this investigation, j2t2?

It is nearly three years old Weary. You guys thought Mueller was taking so long yet nothing from the FBI after 3 years?

How come no one mentions an investigation into Daddy Trump’s favorite daughter and her use of private email servers knowing these servers are illegal?


D’ tells us “it is not too late to pursue crimes by Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, and others in the DOJ, FBI, IRS, etc.” but either evades the question or fails to explain why the Repub led HoR has failed to do so the past two years. I suggest it is because they knew you guys were being played by the conservative propagandist who kept crying wolf without any proof.


The reason I question your decency D. is you seem to be driven by partisan anger and misled by movement propagandist. You claim to be a moderate, which is a lie, yet you insist upon this investigation into some “deep state” conspiracies. Just like the far right fringe QAnon.


Posted by: j2t2 at December 9, 2018 6:37 PM
Comment #435523

Three years old!? Have I been listening to non-stop exposure of Hillbilly’s investigation for three years now? Have I been listening to story after story after story, nonstop updates of the Hillbilly investigation 24/7 for three whole years!?

NO! I haven’t been! I’ve heard NOTHING! Why is that? Don’t say it’s because they haven’t found anything, because they have! Comey got up in front of the cameras and told everyone there’s a there there but he didn’t care!

Wouldn’t the left have a cow if Mueller got up in front of the camera and said Trump committed campaign finance violations, but he didn’t intend to, so…

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 9, 2018 7:18 PM
Comment #435530
j2t2 wrote: The reason I question your decency D. [d.a.n] is you seem to be driven by partisan anger and misled by movement propagandist.

Again, j2t2 questions others decency, while (somehow) rationalizing his following comments (which are revealing):

  • [01] j2t2 wrote: I am proud of each and every one of my comments you have listed here. In fact I am especially proud of the donkey show comment [see #09 below] you had so much trouble with.
  • [02] j2t2 wrote: Weary, I haven’t said you [Weary Willie] are a Nazi.
  • [03] j2t2 wrote: I am not calling anyone a Nazi.
  • [04] j2t2 wrote: you complain about the fascist tag you guys on the right have earned.
  • [05] j2t2 wrote: In fact I have said many times here on WB [that] you conservatives here on WB [WatchBlog] remind me of the people of Germany in the late 20’s and early 30’s.
  • [06] j2t2 wrote: Welcome to Trumps America, Zeig Heil !
  • [07] j2t2 wrote: The people of Germany, a lot of good people fell for this type of blaming those different from us and look where it lead, they were Zeig Heiling to a dictator a few years later.
  • [08] j2t2 wrote: It may not be fascism, it may be oligarchy that is the problem but never the less you guys are helping to turn us into something we don’t want to be.
  • [09] j2t2 wrote (comparing conservatives on Watch Blog to “Beastialists” or those that like to watch Beastiality): I didn’t imply anything of the sort. This is what I said “What’s the difference between the Gringo [a disparaging and/or racist term] tourist at the “Tijuana donkey show” and the conservatives on WB [Watchblog] that believe the repubs on the intelligence committee actually have something of substance to show the American people?”
  • [10] j2t2 wrote (comparing Trump supporters to Nazis): Oh look a Trump rally [see video of Nazis supporters in 1939 - www.theatlantic.com/video/index/542499/marshall-curry-nazi-rally-madison-square-garden-1939/?fbclid=IwAR0KPtoDWEVwr2uMTlqDW3c5Gu0TRfoDbePoZpd5BcXXw7_JjNSPWwYMBx8] . God , the flag, nationalism, returning America to the people who founded it, and a liberal protestor to beat on.
  • [11] j2t2 wrote: How sad D. that you would think that calling names is your best argument…
  • [12] j2t2 wrote: IMHO you guys are falsely setting liberals and dems up for persecution in the coming years.
  • [13] j2t2 wrote: I look at you guys [Republicans and conservatives on WatchBlog] and see the good people, and you are good people, that were mislead by the fascist [Hitler] of the last century.
  • [14] j2t2 wrote (blames Russia for 2016 election): Who gives a f**k Obama is gone, Clinton is gone. Trump is here and it is in part due to Russian interference in the election.
  • [15] j2t2 wrote: Neither am I a “build a wall on one border to keep the brown guys out” type.
  • [16] j2t2 wrote: You have turned into a far right troll who spends his time instigating others into anger.
  • [17] j2t2 wrote: Why would the same people who insulted and lied about Obama for 8 years think they deserve respect now that Trump is president?
  • [18] j2t2 wrote (blaming Republicans and conservatives): Just doesn’t compare to [pipe]bomb attacks on political opponents does it?
  • [19] j2t2 wrote: Yet here we are with conservatives hanging their hats on fearmongering and hatred as a means to win elections.
  • [20] j2t2 wrote (again, comparing conservatives on Watch Blog to Beastialists or those that like to watch Beastiality): So D., did anybody have an answer to the question? “What’s the difference between the Gringo [a disparaging and/or racist term] tourist at the “Tijuana donkey show” and the conservatives on WB [Watchblog] that believe the repubs on the intelligence committee actually have something of substance to show the American people?”.
  • [21] j2t2 wrote: Now you act surprised and try to deflect the blame! Go f**k yourselves. Point the finger at yourselves for buying into the stupid propaganda you have bought into.
  • [22] j2t2 wrote: I mean I don’t call anyone that I disagree with names, just those that support the far right or are politically on the far right.
  • [23] j2t2 wrote: As far as the synagogue massacre conservatives have only the conservative media and their lies to blame for dehumanizing Jews once again. Look at the code word you guys have used for attacking Jews for the past few years.
  • [24] j2t2 wrote: In fact right now I’m rather proud that you have spent the time going through the archives hunting for my words of wisdom.
  • [25] j2t2 wrote: The only hypocrisy on this thread is yours.
  • [26] j2t2 wrote: Jeezus what a bunch of f**ktards these repubs are.”
  • [27] j2t2 wrote: WTF does it take for you to realize the cognitive dissonance is yours?
  • [28] j2t2 wrote: have you no decency?
Thanks again, j2t2, for showing us this wonderful side of your character.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 9, 2018 7:28 PM
Comment #435592

Don Jr. has fled to Canada and has no intention of coming back while he may be indicted.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 11, 2018 12:00 AM
Comment #435618

It appears that ohrealy really believes that.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 11, 2018 12:42 PM
Comment #435658

Isn’t it weird how some talking head’s opinion becomes legitimate fact to some people?

Sources like LipstickAlley and Vanity Fair top the search for ohrealy’s words “Don Jr. has fled to Canada”. The website Mindy Fischer even has a disclaimer/editor’s note saying the writer of the article that ranks second on DuckDuckGo is an editor of Liberals and points out

The opinions expressed in this commentary are his own.

So, if you actually examine ohrealy’s proclamation that Trump Jr. has fled the country, it is really liberal propaganda. It’s fodder for the bias cow to chew on.


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 12, 2018 3:14 PM
Comment #435660

Weary, I have an alternative theory of the source of such nonsense, that apparently is believed by some Lefties.

It could be a Russian plot to infiltrate, and take over, the Liberal Wing of the Democrat Party. The plot aims to get these dumb-nuts conditioned to believe nearly anything; however unlikely or impossible.

I have notified “special grand dragon of all things Russian”, Mr. Mueller, to investigate.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2018 5:00 PM
Comment #435661

LOL. Mueller can’t find anything related to collusion with Russia, so he’s squeezing everyone for whatever else he can find.
Too bad Mueller is only investigating people on the right.
What would Mueller find if he investigated any of this ?

Posted by: d.a.n at December 12, 2018 5:45 PM
Comment #435665

d.a.n., the Republicans have had two years to investigate the crooked politicians in Washington. They have done next to nothing. A pox on them.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2018 6:58 PM
Comment #435678

I said at the very beginning of this fiasco that someone will get charged with perjury and they will claim victory. It looks like a version of that is coming true.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 13, 2018 2:51 AM
Comment #435688

Want the scientific truth about global warming? Here’s a little 10-question test for you to take. It was fun.

https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 13, 2018 4:35 PM
Comment #435694

Interesting test.
It has been both a LOT colder, and a LOT hotter in the past.

Posted by: d.a.n at December 13, 2018 9:49 PM
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