Third Party & Independents Archives

Would Trump Trade Protecting Mueller for a Wall?

Of the 7 remaining budget bills that have to passed, the one funding DHS is the one that could be the trickiest of all to get done before December 7 when the stop-gap funding of Congress runs out. That’s because the money for the border wall is contained within the DHS funding bill. It’s down to around $5 billion in the House bill and way down to $1.6 billion in the Senate bill, comparing both to Trump’s original demand for around 20 billion for border security.

But there's also the demand by Democrats (and Senator Flake) that a bill be passed protecting Robert Mueller from being fired. McConnell has repeatedly said he sees no need for such a bill, of course, but added to the mix is the anticipation that Mueller's report may be fairly close to being ready for release.

And now Alan Dershowitz has decided that the report will be "devastating" for President Trump. Dershowitz makes sure that people don't think he means legally - he states that whatever collusion he thinks will be uncovered will not rise to the level of illegality - but he does mean devastating in a political sense.

And we have the news that Mueller's team has charged Paul Manafort with lying to the probe's investigators in violation of his plea bargain. The details have not been released but it may be that Manafort will be charged with inconsistencies in his responses to what surely were excruciatingly detailed questions by the pack of prosecutors. Reportedly in this type of investigation there are elaborate question-trees, if you will, huge flow charts with various branches with every possible detail as nailed down as possible by investigators.

Not one of us would pass that type of questioning without stumbling on some details, even if it were on a subject matter we were fairly well-versed in.

It may be that Mueller will unveil some far worse facts than further details on what a sleazy lobbyist Manafort apparently was. But right now, one would not be foolish to wait to see the evidence that the team has.

What else do they have?

What was leaked to Dershowitz that led to someone who has been a fairly strong critic of the attempts to impeach Trump or to somehow prove him unqualified for office suddenly state that the report will be devastating? Or has he merely read the same articles as most of us, and come to his own conclusions? Doubtful.

So, does Mueller wait to release his report or is he in a hurry to get it out, given that acting AG Whitaker has indeed been critical of his probe?

Is December 7, in other words, a date that Mueller is also looking at in terms of the release of his report?

Or asked another way, would President Trump agree to a bill that protected Mueller if he got enough money for the border wall? One would seriously doubt that, but if Trump is truly transactional, then it's a deal he theoretically might under certain conditions be willing to make.

Posted by AllardK at November 27, 2018 4:29 PM
Comments
Comment #434936

I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

Posted by: phx8 at November 27, 2018 5:34 PM
Comment #434938

The president of the United States, the chief executive of the country, the commander in chief of our armed forces will hardly bow to any demands that one of his underlings, such as Mueller, should receive any kind of job protection.

I personally like professor Dershowitz, but I certainly don’t hang on his every word. He is a Democrat and makes political statements. No one is privy to his motivation.

If the Democrats are willing to shut down the government to deny the president the legislation he says he, and the country needs, that’s OK with me.

We wonder if phx8 has considered all the many ways in which Mexico will pay for the wall? Was phx8 really expecting a check in the mail?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 27, 2018 6:12 PM
Comment #434940
phx8 wrote: I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
The citizens of Mexico are not too happy at the moment; especially in Tiajuana.

Also, the caravan is causing blockages and delays at the legal-ports-of-entry for Mexican citizens who have legal rights to enter the U.S.

So, Mexico is paying, and the costs could get much higher.

It is the epitome of ignorance for anyone who literally understood that “Mexico” was literally going to make payments for the wall.

Posted by: d.a.n at November 27, 2018 6:25 PM
Comment #434945
AllardK wrote:Or asked another way, would President Trump agree to a bill that protected Mueller if he got enough money for the border wall?

No. Not unless the deal includes most of the following. We need more than ONLY a wall.
Congress (especially conservatives) had better pull their heads out, and gets serious about the following:

  • [1] Secure and continuously monitor the borders; the cost to do so will be far less than the $279 -to- $296 Billion in annual net losses due to illegal immigration (source#1: www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/23/donald-trump/does-immigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/ ; source#2: www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/21/mass-immigration-costs-govt-296-billion-year-natio/ ; source#3: fairus.org/search?keywords=cost+of+illegal+immigration );
  • [2] Pass laws to require eVerify (and/or similar services) to verify eligibility for employment in the U.S., and harshly prosecute greedy illegal employers with harsh fines that double, triple, or quadruple for subsequent violations, with jail-time for the administrators and/or owners of companies who are repeat offenders, and despicably pit U.S. citizens and illegal immigrants against each other for profits;
  • [3] Arrest and deport ALL criminal illegal immigrants that have committed felonies; some criminal illegal immigrants are too dangerous to release since they could return; many illegal immigrants will self-deport when all of the magnets that attract illegal immigrants to the U.S. are eliminated;
  • [4] Protect U.S. citizens’ benefits and privileges, and deny those benefits and privileges to all illegal immigrants (i.e. welfare; food stamps; free healthcare; Medicaid; free housing; free education; jobs; driver licenses; voting; voter registration; etc.);
  • [5] Also, amend 14th to remove birthright citizenship; Also, pass a law that makes the first illegal trespass of the U.S. border a felony (not merely a misdemeanor); 2nd and subsequent illegal border trespasses are already a felony; also pass a law to end “catch and release”, and incarcerate illegal immigrants (who have already violated U.S. law(s)) until their disposition is decided by the court(s); also ensure that there are sufficient resources to house and maintain illegal immigrants until their dispostion is decided by the court(s);
  • [6] ONLY after the above are implemented, consider a pathway to citizenship (not amnesty) for illegal immigrants who can prove that they were brought to the United States by a parent when very young (when less than age X1-to-X2), have been living in the U.S. for Y1-to-Y2 years, have attended U.S. schools for Z1-to-Z2 years), have no parents or gaurdians that support them, can pass a basic English test, and have little or no connection to the nation in which they were born. That privilege does not extend to any other members or acquaintances of their family. This will be an expensive and painful process, and it won’t be perfect, but it will only get much worse the longer we wait to do it. The amnesty of 1989 quadrupled the number of illegal immigrants within the U.S.A.;
  • [7] Then, after [3] is mostly complete, deport ALL illegal immigrants that commit misdemeanor crimes (i.e. assault; using fake ID; driving without a driver license, which they should not have anyway, and is therefore probably a fake license; speeding; reckless driving; disorderly conduct; vandalism; etc.);
  • [8] Carefully scrutinize all requests for asylum, and change the asylum laws to prevent catch-and-release; and then enforce the laws required to obtain asylum in the U.S.;
IF none of that motivates Republicans and conservatives, then perhaps they can be motivated by the extinction of THEIR own party, borders, and other constitutional rights, because Republicans and conservatives are being replaced, slowly, but surely, by people that do not respect any of the U.S. immigration laws, many other U.S. laws, nor the U.S. Constitution.

IF crime by illegal immigrants is not a concern, then it must not be a problem that 32% of everyone in federal prison is an illegal immigrant?
Also, those are all crimes that should have never happened (Source: cis.org/Huennekens/32-Federal-Inmates-Are-Aliens ).

Democrats and many on the left often call for restricting or eliminating 2nd Amendment rights, “even if it saves only ONE life.”
However, how many tens of thousands of U.S. citizen lives (about 1,000 killed per year) would be saved by deporting criminal illegal immigrants and protecting our nation’s borders? Democrats protest the cost of a wall and border security, but what is the cost of open-borders?

IF Congress doesn’t get serious ASAP, we can essentially say “Good Bye” to Republicans and conservatives, and say Hello to Socialism and Venezuela style government.
It’s not that far fetched, if only 1 or 2 more large states flip blue (see map ).
Then, perhaps there are no longer enough conservatives to (at least, enough left in the 118 Million eligible voters that did not bother to vote) to want to stop those that want this (i.e. what Democrats want…)?

Posted by: d.a.n at November 27, 2018 7:00 PM
Comment #435009

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS in the U.S. from 1945 to 2016:


  • YEAR: 0=====1M===2M===3M===4M===5M===6M===7M===8M===9M===10M===11M===12Million
  • 2016: ########################################################### 11.3M
  • 2015: ######################################################## 11.0M
  • 2014: ########################################################### 11.3M
  • 2013: ########################################################### 11.3M
  • 2012: ###########################################################* 11.4M
  • 2011: ############################################################ 11.5M
  • 2010: ############################################################* 11.6M
  • 2009: ####################################################### 10.8M (recession)
  • 2008: ############################################################* 11.6M
  • 2007: ############################################################# 11.8M
  • 2006: ############################################################ 11.5M
  • 2005: ###################################################### 10.5M
  • 2004: ################################################# 9.3M
  • 2003: ################################################### 9.7M
  • 2002: ################################################## 9.4M
  • 2001: ####################################### 7.8M
  • 2000: ########################################### 8.5M
  • 1999: #####################################
  • 1998: ################################
  • 1997: #############################
  • 1996: ######################### 5.0M
  • 1995: #######################
  • 1994: #####################
  • 1993: ###################
  • 1992: ################# 3.4M
  • 1991: ###############
  • 1990: ##############
  • 1989: #############
  • 1988: ############
  • 1987: ############
  • 1986: ########### 2.1M (1986 Amnesty)
  • 1985: ###########
  • 1984: ########### 2.1M
  • 1983: ###########
  • 1982: ############
  • 1981: #############
  • 1980: ############## 3.0M
  • 1979: #############
  • 1978: ############
  • 1977: ##########
  • 1976: ########
  • 1975: #######
  • 1974: ##### 1.1M
  • 1973: ####
  • 1972: ####
  • 1971: ###
  • 1970: ###
  • 1969: ### 0.54M
  • 1968: ###
  • 1967: ###
  • 1966: ###
  • 1965: ###
  • 1964: ###
  • 1963: ###
  • 1962: ###
  • 1961: ###
  • 1960: ### 0.6M
  • 1959: ###
  • 1958: ###
  • 1957: ##
  • 1956: ##
  • 1955: ###
  • 1954: ###
  • 1953: ###
  • 1952: ###
  • 1951: ####
  • 1950: ####
  • 1949: ####
  • 1948: ####
  • 1947: ###
  • 1946: ###
  • 1945: ##
The following are shocking statistics:
  • (1)In 2014, the Obama administration released from its custody 30,558 criminal aliens with a total of 79,059 convictions, instead of deporting them.
  • (2) Between October 1, 2010 and July 21, 2015, the Obama administration released 124 criminal aliens who were later charged with murder-related crimes committed in the U.S. after their release and before February 2016.
  • (3) In 2011, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) published a study of 249,000 non-citizens in U.S. prisons and jails during 6 years from 2003–2009. This study represented a portion [about 30%] of the total population of criminal illegal immigrants who were incarcerated at the state and local levels (i.e. there are no reliable population data on criminal aliens incarcerated in all state prison systems and local jails). The study found that these illegal immigrants had been arrested for the following violent and drug crimes committed within the U.S.:
    • 25,064 homicide (NOTE: 25,064 homicides / 6 years = 4,177 homicides per year by illegal immigrants!).
    • 69,929 s*x offenses.
    • 94,492 weapons violations.
    • 213,047 assaults.
    • 504,043 drug crimes.
    (Source: www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-187 ).
  • (4) As of year 2017, 32% of all persons in federal prison are illegal immigrants (Source: cis.org/Huennekens/32-Federal-Inmates-Are-Aliens ).
Many Democrats and others on the left call for restricting and/or eliminating 2nd Amendment rights, and say it is worth it “even if it saves only ONE life”, but many choose to ignore the thousands of U.S. citizens killed by illegal immigrants every year. Many Democrats and others on the left are also calling for the abolishment of I.C.E., and many are also calling for open borders.

phx8 wrote: As for immigration, I would be fine with open borders.
Perhaps phx8 will let some come live with him and his family?
Posted by: d.a.n at November 28, 2018 6:46 PM
Comment #435074


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