Third Party & Independents Archives

I've Burned It To The Ground.

…and now the ashes are mine!


I can't wait for the rest of you to return!

How many of you have clicked on the "About" button on your respective columns? Anyone? It lists the Editors of WatchBlog and their links. Most of these links are dormant or non functional. Some lead to websites that haven't been updated for years.

Click on the About link and start sending messages or contributing content to the websites that are active. Let them know WatchBlog is still hanging in there and there's an asshole dominating the center column now. (That's how we know WatchBlog is alive! It has an asshole!)

Let's see how many people who used to frequent WatchBlog we can bring back into the fold. Let's see if another meeting of the minds can be achieved. Don't let me be the only one left in the box. I hate lonely places. I'm not about to turn someone with a candle away from this darkness. Click on the About link at the top of your column. Contribute to the active blogs and websites with information about WatchBlog and encourage people to return.

The best thing about WatchBlog is the familiarity that has been developed between all of us over the 2 decades WatchBlog has been in service. It would be a shame if we were unable to preserve it, rekindle it, use it to advance the goals of each and every one of us, right?

WatchBlog is an asset that can do great things. It's takes more than one asshole to make it happen. We could all step up and do great things with so little effort. Let's give it a shot, OK?


Posted by Weary_Willie at September 16, 2018 8:57 PM
Comments
Comment #431520

I’ve been a quiet non-commenting reader of all three columns for maybe 7 or 8 years. Maybe I’ll join as a Democrat editor at some point, but it has been discouraging to see the increase in conspiracy talk, accusations of “unamerican-ness” and denigration of the other side. It is easier to vilify the other side, challenge their grasp of reality, and generally mock strongly held beliefs than to start from a position of trying to truly understand the good intentions of folks from either side of an issue. I am a progressive liberal, and I truly believe that I have much to learn from smart, open-minded independent and conservative thinkers. I’m not a socialist (meaning I believe in the right to private property and that the government shouldn’t own and run all industry), but I believe I have much to learn from socialists also.

Anyway, I suspect that the day that the dialogue becomes a positive interaction seeking to either persuade or compromise, rather than a shout-fest between MSNBC and Fox News, we will all see these columns fill out again with thoughtful interactions and vibrant debate. Until that time, I will likely slink back into the shadows and check the site a few times a week to see how the discussions evolve.

Posted by: Stalking Horse at September 17, 2018 9:12 AM
Comment #431527

Thank you, Stalking Horse. Your most welcome comment verifies what I said in another post. There are more than six people who utilize WatchBlog. Again, Thank You!

The most mentioned rule for participation is the Critique the message, not the messenger rule. However, another rule that is not adhered to is the Comments are permitted only on the topic of the article rule. That rule needs to be enforced to a much greater degree than it is now. Perhaps a more vibrant enforcement of this rule could help to bring conversations to a satisfactory conclusion. This was tried once where an editor would unpublish comments that didn’t pertain to his post. He was not thought of kindly while he did this. I’m not sure if unpublishing comments is the way to go to enforce this rule, but I think calling someone out on their off topic comments would help considerably.

Thanks again for your contribution, Stalking Horse. It’s much appreciated.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 17, 2018 1:27 PM
Comment #431528

Stalking Horse, since the election there has been quite a shift and little representation on the Democrat side on WB. You’re welcome to contribute! Please email editor@watchblog.com or fill in the form from “Join” and we’ll get you set up as an editor.

Posted by: Liz at September 17, 2018 2:29 PM
Comment #431529

Stalking horse, et al,

If one looks back on my history here they will see where I was a mellow fellow, pushing against corporate personhood and for a third political party. I never engaged in commenting on social, cultural or partisan issues.

Howsumever, when confronted with the recent action of the Obama admin, DNC, and MSM, I have had it with the nice talk. Greatest conspiracy in the history of this country and we can’t even get an investigation going two years later and counting. As I poke my blood gets all het up…

I don’t see how I can be a ‘moderate debater’ from this point. I want Hillary locked up, I want the Obama admin held accfountable. I want justice . . yesterday.

And, what about this ex-president, knowing full well he started the russian counterintel op against Trump, Clapper told us on TV that he did, out there on the campaign trail trying to take the high road, claim the booming economy started with his admin, and so on . ; .

Not me, I don’t want to be nice. I want the dim party disbanded, forever, and so on …

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at September 17, 2018 3:40 PM
Comment #431530

Lisa Page told the judiciary committee that the FBI had no information of Trump=russia when they started the Trump=russia counterintel op. Disband the m…fckers

Posted by: Roy Ellis at September 17, 2018 3:42 PM
Comment #431531

Sorry, sorry dimreps. Just take one pol and measure their worth from the time they were first elected till now. Clintons come to mind.

I suggest we get behind Mark Levin and Article V Part II. Also, try to get a 3rd party going.

‘What have we got to lose?’

Posted by: Roy Ellis at September 17, 2018 4:04 PM
Comment #431532

Roy Ellis - and here lies the challenge. I will try to hang in there even when the debate sinks to the level of who is “dim” and who is bright. I will try to hang in there when the debate is about whether to “lock up” our political opponents. I will try to hang in there when the debate is about whether to disband the FBI because they acted on credible intelligence about foreign interference in our election. I will try to hang in there when folks try to debate the veracity of established scientific fact by questioning each others motives.

I do agree with you that the country might be well served by a strong independent party, and that money in politics often distorts and thwarts the will of the people. But all of that just becomes noise embedded within wild unproven conspiracy theories.

I will withhold judgment of where the Mueller probe will lead and patiently allow the investigators to do their job. And if the (currently Republican controlled) Congress or law enforcement believes there is ample evidence to open or reopen other past investigations, I will similarly wait for those investigations to play out. I will rely on the investigative reporting of dedicated journalists to ferret out the truth, but not overly rely on any single report unless it has overwhelming evidence and specific attribution.

I will try to hang in there…

Posted by: Stalking Horse at September 17, 2018 4:25 PM
Comment #431533

Wonder of Wonders - - the President has just requested that the DNI, DOJ and FBI release UNREDACTED specific pages of the FISA relating to Carter Page.

THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT …

Stalking Horse, very well said, Like some moderate democrats that used to blog on WB. That’s what I’m doing as well, hangin around, waiting on facts derived from some investigation.

But, my soul has been sorely taxed. It’s been two years plus where its been known that Hillary was given a pass on her emails, and so on …

There must be a coupla hundred thousand folks holding security clearances and if any one of them caused a compromise of communications security they would be hung by their balls …

IMO, we should not pass go, not collect $200, and so on …
The world should stop until we get to the bottom of this great conspiracy and clean up the intel agencies, DOJ, DOS and so on … No Wall, no budget amendments, no SC appointee’s, no nuthin … .

Posted by: Roy Ellis at September 17, 2018 4:57 PM
Comment #431535

We no longer live in an age of reason and compromise. What has replaced it is unREASONable demands for capitulation and agreement.

I challenge our friend Stalking Horse to cite a recent example of an elected national Democrat calling for restraint in criticism of the president or even cooperation with Republicans in issues of national security.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 17, 2018 5:27 PM
Comment #431536

In June 2017, the Senate voted 97-2 and the House voted 419-3 in favor of a bill imposing sanctions against Russia, as punishment for interference in the 2016 election.

The 2018 National Defense Authorization Act, authorizing defense spending for the coming year, passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in both the House and the Senate.

It doesn’t usually make headlines, but the House and Senate Republicans and Democrats cooperate a lot more than most people realize, especially when it comes to national security and housekeeping issues. Unfortunately, bipartisan cooperation doesn’t make for very interesting news.

Posted by: phx8 at September 17, 2018 5:51 PM
Comment #431537

Thanks phx8 for pointing out the two exceptions of recent cooperation between the Dems and Reps on defense related bills. What a shame they can’t agree on border security.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 17, 2018 6:13 PM
Comment #431538

Actually, there is a lot of bipartisan agreement on border security. It wasn’t that long ago a bipartisan immigration bill passed the Senate, only to be rejected by House Republicans. Even now, there is substantial agreement and bills have been passed involving border security funding.

The controversies come with Trump administration policies concerning ICE, building a wall, prohibiting Muslims from immigrating, and drastically reducing legal immigration levels.

Earlier this year, Schumer offered Trump a deal trading some funding for the wall in exchange for preserving DACA. Trump refused, and Schumer pulled the offer.

Bipartisanship on big, controversial issues requires compromise.

In terms of the big picture, Trump is failing because his ‘successes’ involve unilateral and often hasty decisions that have not been coordinated with anyone, such as the withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord, or the Trade War. The failures are the result of his temperament and inexperience and incompetent, radical advisors, and an agenda that seems driven by desire for revenge against anything Obama accomplished. Trump’s recent approval ratings- in the high 30’s- does not reflect the performance of the economy, or even the failure of GOP and Democratic legislators to agree. It is a direct reflection on Trump.

Posted by: phx8 at September 17, 2018 7:08 PM
Comment #431539

Perhaps WatchBlog’s situation would improve if we would include proof of the claims being made here.

For instance, who is stating an approval rating of 30%? Rasmussen has him consistently over 40%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Other polls show him at 30% only during the first months of his administration.

Where are getting your opinions from, phx8? Back up your claims with links so we can verify what you say.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 17, 2018 8:17 PM
Comment #431542

Gallup: 38% approval
CNN: %36%
Quinnipiac: 38%
NPR/Marist: 38%
Emerson: 38%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203207/trump-job-approval-weekly.aspx

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2567

The polls consistently show a drop from the low 40’s to the high 30’s after the conviction of Manafort, and the guilty plea of Cohen.

Rasmussen is a consistently high because they only poll land lines. At this point, the segment of the population using land lines is older than the population at large. 52% of the population does even have a land line. You can extract useful information from Rasmussen by figuring out its average bias. It used to be 4%. When it comes to Trump, the deviation between Rasmussen and other polls seems to be higher than that.

I had to delete some polling links due to WB limitations.

Posted by: phx8 at September 17, 2018 8:57 PM
Comment #431543

Thanks, phx for picking this up. I was going to post this link to the San Francisco Chronicle that both illustrates Royal’s point and also provides some counterpoint. Diane Feinstein has faced considerable criticism (per this article) for saying that “Trump can be a good president” and numerous other examples of her desire to work together with the Trump and/or the GOP. She gets booed by the base for that position, but it is a principled stance. A stance which provided an opening for a electoral challenge from the left…

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Feinstein-thinks-California-still-needs-a-13232477.php

Posted by: Stalking Horse at September 17, 2018 9:16 PM
Comment #431545

Thanks for the links, phx8. The Gallup poll shows a consistant 40+ approval rating for a number of months now. The Quinnipac poll seems to be strictly opinion. Gallop also recently went from daily to weekly polling.

Stalking Horse, your linked article focuses on the political division and it’s severity. Feinstein was booed, it said, when she said Democratics should try to work with Trump. With a mindset like that ingrained in an entire political party it’s no wonder the opinion reflected in the Gallop polls show high unfavorable ratings. There’s an 80% approval rating among Republicans.

This division is a very good reason NOT to concentrate power in the federal government. It eventually gets away from the very few trying to control everything. It doesn’t work.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 17, 2018 11:19 PM
Comment #431575

phx8 writes of immigration reform as being blocked by Trump and Republicans. I wrote above the reasons for all the rancor and hatred.

“unREASONable demands for capitulation and agreement”

By the way phx8, are you seriously expecting us to place any faith in polling? Who could still be that foolish?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 18, 2018 4:19 PM
Comment #431577

My interest in his polls are to demonstrate his numbers are inaccurate again. He continually says Trump’s approval is 30% and his own links shows it above 40% for months.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 18, 2018 6:20 PM
Comment #431578

Here is what I wrote:

“Trump’s recent approval ratings- in the high 30’s-“

And

“The polls consistently show a drop from the low 40’s to the high 30’s…”

Trolling is bad enough, but failing at trolling? Come on. Reading comprehension is a pretty basic prerequisite for debate.

RF,
“… are you seriously expecting us to place any faith in polling?”

Polling is not a matter of faith. It is a social science that uses statistics based on sample size, random selection, and margins of error. Surveys can be done a number of different ways. Bottom line- it gives a snapshot in time with a margin of error. It is not a hard number. It has nothing to do with faith or belief. Even with adequate sample sizes and random selections, polls can be ‘outliers.’ Remember, there is a margin of error. Averaging a number of polls gives a better picture.

There is usually enough information to get a pretty accurate picture with a national poll, especially an average of national polls. Presidential approval polls are pretty straightforward, but other opinion polls can be skewed a great deal by the way questions are framed, so it always has to be approached with eyes wide open.

This isn’t magic. Read up on statistics.

Posted by: phx8 at September 18, 2018 6:40 PM
Comment #431579

I asked this question about having faith in polling. “Who could still be that foolish?”

We now know that phx8 is.

He has all the jargon down and gives a great explanation of polling. Well duh. We all know that. We just aren’t all that dumb to believe them.

It takes the same leap of faith to believe MMGW.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 18, 2018 6:56 PM
Comment #431580

Oh No! Not MMGW!!!

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 18, 2018 7:58 PM
Comment #431581

We shouldn’t have gone off on phx8’s tangent with polls. I’m sorry. I was only trying to welcome people back to WatchBlog. I failed by allowing myself to rush off into something so proven to be flawed as polls. How could I be so stupid. I guess my reading comprehension is at fault.

I HAVE ACHIEVED MY GOAL!

I started by saying welcome back, to the silent majority.
I actually got Stalking Horse to participate after 8 years of observing.

This post has done it’s job.

Too bad I can’t read well enough to keep it constructive. My bad.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 18, 2018 8:04 PM
Comment #431608

I’m looking forward to discussing the real issues. The rise of authoritarianism around the world, whether deficits matter, impacts of climate change, the future of SCOTUS, improving our immigration system, Democratic priorities should the House (or even the Senate) turn majority dem, etc.. You know, the easy questions.

Posted by: Stalking Horse at September 19, 2018 6:00 AM
Comment #431784

This was tried once where an editor would unpublish comments that didn’t pertain to his post. He was not thought of kindly while he did this. I’m not sure if unpublishing comments is the way to go to enforce tellthebell

Posted by: Louis 121 at September 23, 2018 4:19 AM
Comment #431798

WW, contact me thru the WB editor and let’s see if we can get some spam relief.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at September 23, 2018 6:05 PM
Comment #431803

I’m not a big fan of gmail
I did look at the Louis 121 comment. The editor references a post Julia Salazar’s Crazed & Desperate Story Telling - Part 2 created by AllardK, Published by Weary_Willie. I’m not sure what is happening there. Can you identify where this is happening in the editor?

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 23, 2018 8:34 PM
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