Third Party & Independents Archives

A Good Time To Contemplate Our Founding

What with all the hue and cry between the dark swamp and the moderate GOP’ers it is useful to remember some history as to how the country was founded.

I am reading a brief book 'essay' on the Constitution by Allan K. Stone. Some gists seems appropriate for the times.

Around 1780-85 some folks in the colonies were complaining with ever louder voices. Virginia and Maryland was debating control over the Potomac River. Some were upset that Rhode Island was charging a toll for passage over a roadway that connected several eastern seaboard colonies.

Some good men from each colony got together and put the Constitution together. Afterward, when asked what they had done, Ben Franklin said something like 'we've given you a Republic, if You can keep it'.

James Madison - 'we have staked the future ... upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God'.

Thomas Jefferson - '. . . a conviction of the minds of the people that these are a gift from God'.

And, get this, by John Adams. 'Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other'.

Stone writes that a Republic is a government ruled by law, not by the will of men. For it to be sustainable the people have to have confidence that the rule of law justly applies to one and all.

It was heartening to watch the Senate hearing with FBI Director, Wray working to clean up the Justice dept/FBI to ensure the people can continue to have confidence in the justice system. Going to take a while to clean up this mess. We can't just walk away from the Hillary debacle, FISA abuse and the weaponizing of gov't for one party to attack another.

As an aside, I have an ipad like device, 6 x 8 inches, that I use for reading internet material and WB. About 3 or 4 days ago I was hacked in a weird way. When I tried to oipen the top two articles I had posted in the middle column a porn net work open up . As time progressed every article in the middle column was infected. Also, a couple of times a dialog would come up telling me to 'click here to install a new server' as your old server was bad or, something about reloading updates to memory or your computer would die.

Can only assume my laptop wasn't affected as it has good virus protection. Just wondering if anyone else has had this or similar problems. Or, why my device was chosen to be attacked.

Posted by Roy Ellis at June 18, 2018 7:05 PM
Comments
Comment #428169

Our founders are now called evil white racists. Their words are now discounted or ignored. Their likenesses are being removed from institutions.

The Constitution they gave us is now called out of date and no longer useful. People who cherish and respect it are called fascists.

Disrespecting our country, its laws, its people and its flag, is now called patriotism.

All of the things that helped create our country and culture are under constant attack. Free speech, freedom of religion, right to keep and bear arms, privacy, individualism, personal responsibility: are now all seen as enemies of the state and called Nazis.

It’s way past time to just think about what it all means.

Nothing is going to happen to Hillary or with the abuse of the government. They get the benefit of a different set of rules and they will continue the abuse until the people do something about it.

Posted by: kctim at June 19, 2018 8:36 AM
Comment #428174

Agree kctim. Had Hillary won this country would have have undergone a sharp leftist turn to a point from which the Constitution, the Republic, could never recover. I believe that.

Also agree that Hillary will not be prosecuted. It came out in the Senate hearing this morning that Bush’s attny gen was not prosecuted for divulging classified information because of an unwritten gov’t policy of not going after high level officials. The IG noted that he did not interview Obama or any high level Obama admin people about Hillary’s emails, did the President communicate with Hillary over the unclassified server and so on … This unwritten policy is also the reason Comey didn’t investigate Hillary’s gross negligence of mishandling classified information.

The Navy sailor got his justice for taking a picture inside a nuke sub. But Hillary gets a pass even as we know her server was hacked by foreign entities.

- - A Republic if we can keep it = =

Posted by: Roy Ellis at June 19, 2018 10:58 AM
Comment #428180

Thanks Roy and kctim for the great posts.

I don’t recall attacks on our founding, founders, and republic until around the Clinton era. It is incredible what can happen when good and moral people don’t pay attention and be proactive.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 19, 2018 3:44 PM
Comment #428181

Sadly Royal, the more that people are dependent, the more complacent and lazy they become.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what leftist policy depends on to thrive.

Posted by: kctim at June 19, 2018 4:10 PM
Comment #428182

We have gone from the “greatest generation” to the welfare dependency generation in fifty short years.

What used to unite us (constitutional founding, religious belief, self reliance, personal charity, respect for each other, good governance, education, and sacrifice for our country) are concepts that are now being destroyed by those who seek a global community with poverty, in body, mind, and spirit; for all.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 19, 2018 5:02 PM
Comment #428183
We have gone from the “greatest generation” to the welfare dependency generation in fifty short years.

It was the greatest generation that returning from WWII had the GI Bill and subsequently Pell Grants that paid for almost all the costs for college educations for many Americans. Today we have conservatism instead. The unregulated capitalist banksters that force people into debt for the same college education. Since the Reagan revolution and the return of conservative ideology and conservative majorities in Congress we have become a debtor nation and we eat our young. You should be proud Royal, conservatism worked as planned.

Kctim, You need a pity party!! here is a song to cheer you up after all the self pity in comment #428169. Geez it is so sad to see you guys who have insulted and demeaned so many over the years for not being just like you getting a taste of your own medicine even if it is based upon such foolishness.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 19, 2018 5:36 PM
Comment #428184

Can anyone believe that our buddy j2t2 doesn’t understand the draft, that required military service, rewarded that service with G.I. Bill benefits.

This clown believes Veteran benefits were not earned. There is a name for comments like this. Hypocrite. What the hell has Veteran Benefits got to do with the pansy-ass college kids who complain about debt.

The Liberals in this country, and in other countries, are so damn desperate, as they see their power waning, that they can’t formulate thoughts that make sense.

j2t2 writes crappy commentary gleaned from the fake media and spews out his hatred here.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 19, 2018 6:07 PM
Comment #428185

Royal you have so many strawmen in such a small place! It seems your ignorance is arguing with your idiocy. It seems hatred and delusion have clouded your ability to read and comprehend what was said.

To answer your question in the aftermath of WWI the veterans of that war got nothing, no GI Bill or bonus despite marching on Washington at all, so in that respect the GI Bill was a great improvement. They got an education and went on to establish Pell Grants for their children that wanted an education, but alas they spawned losers like us Boomers that have denied our children and grandchildren the same forcing them into debt, all because we have adopted conservative ideology. But then us Boomers now have the temerity to call these youngsters pansy a** college kids on welfare! A spoiled Boomer talking smack about the next generation is what you are Royal.

I glean nothing from Fox News or any other conservative propaganda outlet, you are as misleading on this as you are on the rest of your strawman comment.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 19, 2018 11:28 PM
Comment #428211

J2,
I am discussing our founding, our country, our culture, our Constitution, our individual rights, principles, values and patriotism. Those are what made our country great and losing them is already making us weaker.
You are rambling about materialistic things and attacking false stereotypes of your own creation.
Once again, you show your lack of the comprehension skills needed for meaningful discussion.

As far as self pity, none here at all. I’ve worked my a$$ off to have the life I have and am enjoying every minute of it.
But, you want to have a party, let’s party:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZx4HdhgEAA

Posted by: kctim at June 20, 2018 8:34 AM
Comment #428213
I am discussing our founding, our country, our culture, our Constitution, our individual rights, principles, values and patriotism. Those are what made our country great and losing them is already making us weaker.


You are blaming and shaming kctim, you are attempting to paint others unpatriotic because they dare criticize the founding fathers. They kept the enslavement of others in their Constitution because of the need for cheap labor in the South. To think someone shouldn’t say as much is wrong. Just as trying to paint them as unpatriotic for doing so is wrong, kctim.

You are rambling about materialistic things and attacking false stereotypes of your own creation.

Just as you are in your comments kctim. I mean you actually tell us it is because “The Constitution they gave us is now called out of date and no longer useful. People who cherish and respect it are called fascists.” when that simply isn’t the case. It is the activities that resemble fascism that is being called out, the white nationalism that hides behind the same pathetic BS you are using to denigrate people who disagree with you.

Once again, you show your lack of the comprehension skills needed for meaningful discussion.

I would disagree kctim, I responded to Royals name calling and insulting of the next generation of Americans by talking about the reality of then vs. now and the role conservatism played in making it so.

As far as self pity, none here at all. I’ve worked my a$$ off to have the life I have and am enjoying every minute of it.

Haven’t we all but you had it easier than today’s generation IMHO, if you are a Boomer. Yet Royal finds it in himself to insult them!


But, you want to have a party, let’s party:

otay Hope you enjoy this one as well.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 20, 2018 9:57 AM
Comment #428214

So the Founders thought only certain people should be represented in the country they founded. Mainly the landed gentry, as those that toiled to make the country great weren’t worthy unless they owned someone or something and weren’t female. That was because of the times and I’m sure some of the founding fathers would like to have insisted God meant liberty for all not just the landed gentry. Over all they did a great job getting the country off and rolling. But not being forced to house soldiers was called out while voting wasn’t in the bill of rights. So IMHO it wasn’t perfect, despite all the references to God…oh wait Roy none of these quotes made it into the Constitution, but what is.


Posted by: j2t2 at June 20, 2018 10:21 AM
Comment #428216

j2t2, thanks for your efforts at providing a little bit of reading on this vacuous site. For contrast:

Robert Mueller:
Bronze Star Medal with Combat “V”,
Purple Heart Medal,
2 Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals with Combat “V”, Combat Action Ribbon,
National Defense Service Medal,
and Parachutist Badge(wiki)

The Tramp:
bone spurs
espionage
treason
kidnapping

Posted by: ohrealy at June 20, 2018 10:55 AM
Comment #428217

J2,
I blame, shame AND condemn leftists for ignoring historical context in order to attack our founding, our country, our culture etc… to push their agenda. Such attacks are not “expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country.”

From speech to religion to arms to privacy to property, leftists have declared the Constitution to be out of date, J2. That is a fact. In order to change peoples views on those things, leftists have had to resort to calling supporters fascists and there are countless examples of it.

“It is the activities that resemble fascism that is being called out”

Free speech, freedom OF religion, the right to keep and bear arms, right to privacy and the right to personal property do NOT resemble fascism in any way.
Attacking speech with violence and destruction because you disagree with it DOES resemble fascism.
Intimidating religious folks and dictating where, when and how they can exercise their religious beliefs DOES resemble fascism.
Taking away an individuals right to keep and bear arms DOES resemble fascism.
Forcefully taking personal property for the supposed benefit of the commons(State) DOES resemble fascism.

The white nationalism that you fear is all in your freaking head. It’s nothing but an attack on our culture, traditions and values.

You first responded to Royal by mentioning the GI Bill, Pell Grants and college educations - all material things that does nothing but support the claim of us going from the ‘greatest generation’ to the current dependency generation.

“Haven’t we all but you had it easier than today’s generation IMHO, if you are a Boomer.”

I am generation X, J2, and unless you are talking about rights and freedoms, I guarantee I did not have it easier than today’s generation.

Of course Royal insults today’s generation, they don’t know a thing about our history, our country or our Constitution. They are in the streets demanding special treatment, the taking away of rights and for socialism. They are fine with being dependent on government.
If we’re lucky, they don’t yet outnumber normal Americans.

GaGa has some good stuff, J2, and she did a very good job with that one. Oh, wait, as a right-wing fascist white nationalist, I’m not supposed to think or say that, am I.
LOL

Posted by: kctim at June 20, 2018 11:53 AM
Comment #428219
They kept the enslavement of others in their Constitution because of the need for cheap labor in the South.

Wrong! They didn’t address the issue because they thought it more important to get the document ratified by all the states. The abolition of slavery at that time was a deal breaker. They, instead, chose to avoid a balkanization of the American continent. They prevented the south from becoming a vassal of England, the Midwest from being owned by France, and the Southwest and West Coast from being controlled by Spain, or China, or Japan. They prevented constant war on this continent.

Slavery was set aside for the time being to achieve the greater good, one united nation. Don’t confuse the founder’s foresight with a today’s trivial dog whistle called cheap labor.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 20, 2018 12:54 PM
Comment #428221

https://youtu.be/YaxGNQE5ZLA

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 20, 2018 2:56 PM
Comment #428223

Perhaps I was wrong about your comments j2t2.

We veterans earned our G.I. Bill benefits.

And, you don’t want today’s “pansy-ass” college students to receive similar benefits for having done nothing to earn them.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 20, 2018 3:26 PM
Comment #428224

Many thanks to both kctim and Weary for their cogent comments.

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