Third Party & Independents Archives

...and other forces for decades.


The Effects of Gaslighting in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome

The techniques used in “Gaslighting” by the narcissist are similar to those used in brainwashing, interrogation, and torture that have been used in psychological warfare by intelligence operative, law enforcement and other forces for decades.

What if "other forces" have adapted "gaslighting" to work on the national level? What if we have been afflicted with Narcissistic Victim Syndrome? Before you answer, let's look at the steps taken by the Gaslighter against the Gaslightee.

(1)The Idealization Stage:

During the initial "idealization stage", the narcissist puts on their "best face" in order to mould their victim into a symbiotic relationship with them as their narcissistic supply.

After the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson was given credit for initiating a Civil Rights Act that, he said, would get the black community voting for Democratics for the next 100 years. The Democratic party began a permanant campaign to end poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, ingratiating themselves to a happy and content population leaving behind the still vivid memories of war and depression.

(2)The Devaluation Stage:

Almost overnight the narcissist becomes decisively cold and uncaring. The victim's falls from grace is a hard one, they cannot seem to do anything right anymore; the narcissists loving words turn to criticism, everything the victim tries ends in a negative effect, and they find themselves devalued at every turn.
The narcissist is merciless in the way they devalue the victim.

Republican President Richard M. Nixon, while bringing an end to the Vietnam war, was bitterly attacked and forced from office. The Republican party was tarred as a party of criminals. The media uses the episode as a guidebook for fame and fortune. A failed Jimmy Carter is viewed as a hero, and his successor, Ronald R. Reagan, from the start, is slandered as crazy and branded a war monger. His successor, George H. W. Bush, was deceived and denied reelection. Since then, a game of "You're it!" is conducted every 8 years, the process is described as divided government and gridlock and partisan politics.

(3) The Discarding Phase:

Once this happens, the narcissist ardor for the game has dampened, in their eyes they have already won the contest, and the fun is over. By this time, the narcissist is totally indifferent to any needs or wishes that the victim may have, in effect they no longer exist in their mind.

The Democratic party's victory in 2008 is a striking example of The Discarding Phase. Consent from Republicans was not required nor wanted. Elections have consequences was a repeated phrase when dissenting views were expressed. Any criticism was met with ridicule and accusations, unjust prosecutions, later to be overturned, and some personal destruction as well. Hillary D. Rodham-Clinton didn't even feel it necessary to campaign in areas she took for granted.

The plight of the victims of the Gaslighting Effect:

In her wonderful book, The Gaslighting Effect, Robin Stern, Ph.D. speaks of three stages the victim will go through: Disbelief, Defense, and Depression

The article referenced in the link above pertains to the individual experience of Gaslighting. I'm trying to look at it from a national perspective. As you read the following quotes, think of them as originating at the national level instead of the individual level. See if you recognize any parallels.

Disbelief:

All of this psychological warfare has the effect of making the victim doubt their own memory or perception of events. Desperate for the gaslighter's approval and reassurance that they are not going mad, the victim becomes very dependent on their narcissistic abuser for a sense of reality.

Defense:

Before long their psychic energy becomes depleted, and they are left unable to defend themselves from the horrendous gaslighting effect. At this stage the person's whole system may feel that it is in danger of annihilation.

Depression:

Living under tyranny within a war zone where they are controlled, physically and emotionally battered, unable to make decisions, subjected to constant rages, sucked dry, stripped of dignity and safety, they exist in a joyless life.

Is this hauntingly familiar with what you see on the TV these days? Perhaps it isn't random, or society driven, or symptoms of some other group's policies. Perhaps it's a product! Perhaps it has been narcissistic psychological warfare by intelligence operative, law enforcement and other forces for decades.

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize what the problem is. Identifying the stages and symptoms of gaslighting on an individual level will lead us to recognizing those symptoms on a national level. I've known for a long time there's something wrong with this country. Perhaps it isn't our country who is at fault. Perhaps we're simply the Gaslightee, and have been for decades.

Posted by Weary_Willie at May 13, 2018 7:03 PM
Comments
Comment #426903

Weary WTF man are you serious, my god I have been on the floor laughing my a** off over this. You are describing the Trump administration to a tee. Well the administration and the Trump followers that are the victims of said “gaslighting”.

Look man I know you are trying to get ahead of the obvious comparison between Trump and what he has done to his followers by deflecting this thing but IMHO it would be easier to jump the grand canyon at our age than to get anyone but Trump followers to buy into this being about anyone but the Donald.

Take a minute to look up traits of a narcissist and Trumps picture is there my friend. It is a description of him exactly. So that being said what does that make you guys? gaslighters, which I guess is better than teabaggers.

But anyway kudos for the weak attempt to turn this around but…. it just ain’t gonna happen. But hey it’s May and the Goebbels award is hands down yours for the month. Nothing could top this bit.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 13, 2018 8:28 PM
Comment #426906

Trump

Posted by: j2t2 at May 13, 2018 10:19 PM
Comment #426910
the narcissists loving words turn to criticism, everything the victim tries ends in a negative effect, and they find themselves devalued at every turn. The narcissist is merciless in the way they devalue the victim.
Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 8:39 AM
Comment #426912

Exactly what the video in my previous comment shows Weary.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 10:33 AM
Comment #426913

But you seem to be thinking this is more of a group narcissism thing that has been ongoing since the late 60’s, conveniently forgetting Nixon did have operatives break into an office of political opponents and try to cover it up. Or how the real offenders, the conservative movement was behind the dirty politics that have increased over the years until 20216 when Trump had the Russian influence on the internet attempting to divide Americans. Or the effort of the movement to smear the Clintons for years. You seem to be one of the group narcissist we call the conservative movement.


Make America Great Again

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 10:44 AM
Comment #426914

Tnx, j2t2. From your link.

Actually, when we managed to separate those two variables, people [who have in-group pride but aren’t collectively narcissistic] are actually tolerant toward others. They’re not intolerant, they are not rejecting, they are not exclusionists. They are actually more open.

Narcissism is hyperprotective, hypersensitive, and aggressive. National group pride is not necessarily so.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 10:58 AM
Comment #426915
Collective narcissists are exclusive in who they are willing to regard as compatriots. And they turn against those who express concern.

Sound familiar, j2t2?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 11:01 AM
Comment #426916
Republicans voted for Trump whether they were collective narcissists or not, and collective narcissists voted Trump whether they were Republicans or not.
Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 11:04 AM
Comment #426918

I’ve seen articles in the past about gaslighting, and I just don’t think it applies to Trump or the GOP.

What Trump does shares some characteristics with gaslighting. Trump is an extreme example of narcissism- I don’t think anyone would dispute that- and gaslighting is often a kind of psychological manipulation used by narcissists, dictators, cult leaders, and so on. However, gaslighting is used to convince the victim that they are the one who crazy. It breaks the victim down to the point where they question themselves, rather than the source.

One major characteristic of gaslighting is telling blatant lies. Another is to deny lying, even when there is abundant proof. Trump certainly does that. It is well documented. But the same can be said of FOX, or Limbaugh, or Hannity, and it can be said of any propaganda outlet.

In gaslighting, everyone else is a liar, and only the source of gaslighting can be trusted. Again, Trump is an extreme example with his constant attacks against the media, but the same can be said of FOX, Limbaugh, etc. Once again, this can be said of any propaganda outlet.

Gaslighting also uses projection. Once again, Trump is an extreme example. The more he accuses someone else, the more likely it is he is guilty of that accusation.

The difference is that gaslighting breaks down the victim emotionally and psychologically. Followers of Trump might be so slavishly devoted to Trump that they would still support him even if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, as Trump so famously proclaimed, but that is not the same as being broken down emotionally & psychologically. They want to believe something things that are terrible, such as bigotry and racism, and they are willing to embrace Trump’s narcissism as long as it encourages the underlying hatred of the vision of a white, male, Evangelical Christian America.

Posted by: phx8 at May 14, 2018 12:22 PM
Comment #426919

In my post, I described something that I suggested started in the 1960’s. Both j2t2 and phx8 have acknowledged my position may be valid, but it’s validity is based on Trump’s election and administration! I don’t get it. How did something that began in the 60’s be the fault of an administration that is only several months old?

According to both of these replies, they agree the nation may be experiencing Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, but Trump is the Narcissist! He must be extremely effective in gaslighting the entire nation if he has accomplished this in a matter of months.


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 12:44 PM
Comment #426920

WW,
The movie “Gaslight” was made in 1944.

You misunderstand what I am saying. I do NOT think Trump is gaslighting; however, I do think the technique of gaslighting some characteristics with what Trump is doing.

And I do NOT think the nation is experiencing Narcisstic Victim Syndrome, nor does what is going on apply to the entire nation. What is going on only applies to about 1/3 of the nation, the Trump supporters. They support him, not because they are victims, but because Trump is telling them what they always wanted to believe in the first place- that it is ok to dismiss misogyny as excessive political correctness; that tax cuts for the rich and corporations are good because it means minorities will not get ‘free stuff,’ and so on.

It resembles the thinking of poor southern whites in the Civil War. For them, it was unimportant that rich southerners were the ones who economically benefited from slavery ; the important thing for poor whites was that they were still superior to blacks, and that slaves would not receive ‘free stuff’ in any way, shape, or form. Propaganda, bigotry, and racism fueled those beliefs, but whites never perceived themselves as victims of a narcissist.

Trump just found a way of feeding his own narcissism through his supporters. They wanted to believe things that were obviously untrue, like the Iran deal was a bad one for the sole reason that is was negotiated by Obama, or the same economy that was bad under Obama was suddenly good under Trump, or perhaps most incredible of all, that Trump was sent by God to save white Christians from the perils of a black Muslim president like Obama, or Trump was motivated by divine power when he moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalaem, or whatever.

I’m not saying it makes sense. I’m just saying that is how it works with Trump and his supporters.

Posted by: phx8 at May 14, 2018 1:08 PM
Comment #426921

You refuse to discuss my post from my perspective.

everything the victim tries ends in a negative effect, and they find themselves devalued at every turn.

Why won’t you look at it from a historical perspective as I have done? Why must everything be blamed on Trump? This country wasn’t created in 2016, phx8. Quit acting like it was!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 2:02 PM
Comment #426922
Sound familiar, j2t2?

Sure does Weary, sounds just like the conservative movement.

Both j2t2 and phx8 have acknowledged my position may be valid,

Oops my bad Weary I sure didn’t mean to give validity to your blame the liberals for everything position. What I said was “But you seem to be thinking this is more of a group narcissism thing that has been ongoing since the late 60’s, conveniently forgetting Nixon did have operatives break into an office of political opponents and try to cover it up. Or how the real offenders, the conservative movement was behind the dirty politics that have increased over the years until 20216 when Trump had the Russian influence on the internet attempting to divide Americans. Or the effort of the movement to smear the Clinton’s for years. You seem to be one of the group narcissist we call the conservative movement.”

Further I don’t think the entire nation is narcissistic but Trump is. Whether it is nationalistic pride or group narcissism that is the problem with Trump followers I would suggest the difference is small and is defined by the level this group is willing to go to to defend anything he does and says.

It looks to me Weary that phx8 has given this more thought and had responded with an intelligent analysis of the issue.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 2:18 PM
Comment #426923

You two have completely missed the point of my post. You have Trump living rent free in your heads. Everything is Trump, Trump, Trump, Russia, Russia, Russia!

Fit’s nicely with a Narcissistic Victim Syndrome.

Desperate for the gaslighter’s approval and reassurance that they are not going mad, the victim becomes very dependent on their narcissistic abuser for a sense of reality.

You two are as much victims as anyone else.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 2:45 PM
Comment #426940

WW,
Please cite a specific example, or quotes.

Posted by: phx8 at May 14, 2018 6:43 PM
Comment #426941

Weary you perspective included the Nixon era as if Nixon wasn’t a crook. He was, my friend he didn’t resign because he was innocent. Reagan ran the most corrupt administration in the modern era Weary, not opinion but by the number of indictments. Calling Reagan a war monger doesn’t make one person let alone an entire political party a narcissist.

I understand you want to make this about something it isn’t, and I had a laugh over it as I read it. It’s not that I miss you point it is your point is without merit Weary. Wishful thinking on your part because it is a defense mechanism to protect Trump, IMHO. Deep down you know this to be true.

So yes Weary you are a victim, but it isn’t us who are abusing you it is Trump. It has been about Trump from the get go.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 6:55 PM
Comment #426942

Quotes of your Trump Derangement syndrome? Take your pick, phx8, all your comments are about Trump and Russia. They’re actually getting boring.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 6:56 PM
Comment #426943

j2t2, I’m not consumed with Trump hatred. I don’t get myself wrapped up with making every little thing a reason Trump should be thrown in prison or something.

You guys simply can’t grasp what I’m trying to describe in my post. You guys are too invested in the Democratic party to be open minded or unbiased. Just listen to yourselves! 70 years of brainwashing is Trump’s doing? You guys are delusional!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 7:05 PM
Comment #426944

Well Weary I have got to give it to you this little bit of honesty is a start, yes you aren’t consumed with a hatred of Trump.

You are mistaken however if you think this declaration is backs up anything you are trying to say as far as narcissism. Weary your false assumptions are easy to grasp, the fact you can’t see the truth for what it is is a bit harder to grasp.

Once again, you are simply unable to get to the “70 years of brainwashing” you claim is a problem. Just because you refuse to realize the truth doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth. But go ahead and keep defending Trump while you lamely try to turn this whole thing around, Great stuff Weary. Goebbels would be proud.

What do you think of a guy who becomes president but refuses to divest himself of his business operations. Then while president his company takes a gift..er..umm…loan from the Chinese government of a half a billion or so for a Trump branded amusement park in the far east. But this guy doesn’t stop there he then tweeted his followers that he is helping a Chinese company that violated the Iran restrictions. Because the Chinese government asked him to. The same Chinese government he told us he would take on over trade practices!

Is that draining the swamp or is that a narcissist that knows he can get away with violating the Constitution because his followers will defend him to the end?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 7:52 PM
Comment #426945

Isn’t it a remarkable parallel how, since Kennedy’s assassination, the government and the media are following the same course described by the author of the article I linked to? Doesn’t it fit the same pattern of a narcissist controlling his victim, only on a national level?

You can’t discuss it, can you? It hits home, doesn’t it? There are many similarities between what the gaslighter does to his victim and what the government and the media have been doing to the American people for almost a century. But, you have to ignore these similarities, don’t you? Maybe because it’s true. Maybe it’s the secret Democratics can’t talk about. Maybe it’s their platform, and the garbage they put together in their convention is simply window dressing, camouflage for their ultimate goal of subjugating the population and making them their slaves.

And all you two can think of is Trump, Trump, Trump. Sad.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 8:24 PM
Comment #426946


The place of “Cognitive Dissonance” in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome

If therapists are to understand the behaviour of clients who have been victims of narcissistic abuse, then it is crucial for them to appreciate why the victim combines the two unhealthy conditions of Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance as part of their survival strategy. When these two strategies are in place, the victim firmly believes that their relationship is not only acceptable, but also vital for their survival. They become so enmeshed in the relationship with the abuser, that they feel that their world (mental and emotional) would fall apart if the relationship ended. This explains why they fear those people who attempt to rescue them from their abuser, and how this causes the victim to develop cognitive dissonance and become protective of their abuser.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 8:51 PM
Comment #426947

Why do you guys love the federal government so much that you can’t find it in yourself to allow it to be criticized?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 9:00 PM
Comment #426948
Isn’t it a remarkable parallel how, since Kennedy’s assassination, the government and the media are following the same course described by the author of the article I linked to? Doesn’t it fit the same pattern of a narcissist controlling his victim, only on a national level?

No Weary it isn’t a remarkable parallel, it seems to be more of a wish on your part than anything based in reality. The corporate media is not an individual nor a conspiracy that would cause one to think of narcissism, sorry. At least the media outlets I use, Faux and conservative propaganda outlets may be a different story being connected to the conservative movement.

The government is the government that we elect and until Trump I can’t think of one president that would fit the definition of narcissist. You certainly didn’t make a case for yourself with what you pointed out in your post.

You can’t discuss it, can you? It hits home, doesn’t it?

My God Weary we have been discussing it, and no it doesn’t hit home until we start talking about the current president.


There are many similarities between what the gaslighter does to his victim and what the government and the media have been doing to the American people for almost a century.

First of all make sure you are not5 basing this comment on what you see and hear on Faux news Weary. Then if there are so many similarities then tell us what they are, with particulars not vague generalities typical of conservative propaganda.

Maybe it’s their platform, and the garbage they put together in their convention is simply window dressing, camouflage for their ultimate goal of subjugating the population and making them their slaves.

Or maybe you forget it is repubs/conservatives that honor the symbol of slavery in this country Weary, the confederate flag. Perhaps your hatred is clouding your vision, or maybe the Russians got to you with their pro Trump divide the races campaign.

And all you two can think of is Trump, Trump, Trump. Sad.

Sad Weary is seeing this conspiratorial narcissism in the media and the government the past 100 years yet missing the 500 pound gorilla of narcissism in the room,Donald Trump. Yet you have the cajones to bring up cognitive dissonance!

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 9:25 PM
Comment #426949

Weary why didn’t you answer the question about Trump and draining the swamp or was the cognitive dissonance quote your answer?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-orders-help-chinese-phone-215814298.html

Why do you guys love the federal government so much that you can’t find it in yourself to allow it to be criticized?

There is plenty to criticize when it comes to the federal government now that it is being so poorly ran Weary. What you are saying is the government is narcissistic and I think you are wrong. Wanting to get rid of corruption in the administration is an example of a complaint Weary. Yet you defend our elected representatives, in this case Trump and complain about others!

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 9:46 PM
Comment #426951

You are not criticizing the government. You are criticizing Trump and conservatives. You never criticized the federal government when Democratics were in charge. In fact, Republicans were looked at as obstructionists and racists throughout Obama’s presidency. Whatever the problem, it wasn’t the federal government who was to blame, in your eyes it was Republicans and conservatives.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 14, 2018 10:09 PM
Comment #426952

WW,
I don’t get it. You want to discuss gaslighting, but when I politely ask for an example or quote, you refuse to provide one. About the closest you come is this: “Maybe it’s their platform, and the garbage they put together in their convention is simply window dressing, camouflage for their ultimate goal of subjugating the population and making them their slaves.”

So the party that won the majority of votes in the last election for president (3 million votes), the House (50%- 49%), and the Senate (by a LOT more) is subjugating the population? Making them slaves? How does that even work?
Are you saying democracy is a bad idea? Does this mean you reject the Federalist ideals promoted by Washington & Hamilton, that the federal government is the best guarantor of individual rights?

If you want to discuss these things, it seems reasonable to ask you to provide specific examples and quotes. Putting them into a current context, and by that, I mean 2018, with Trump in the White House & the GOP in control of the House & the Senate, would make this a viable discussion, instead of a wandering diatribe about… well, I can’t make heads or tails of it.

Posted by: phx8 at May 14, 2018 10:53 PM
Comment #426953
You are not criticizing the government.

Weary like I said I don’t buy into your “the government and the media are narcissist” theory. The current president is a different story.

You are criticizing Trump and conservatives.

The price of being the oppressive minority, you should be happy. It is their policies, their leadership, and their ideology that is running the federal government.

You never criticized the federal government when Democratics were in charge.

Weary our system of government is fine it is bad leadership and the ideology that government cannot do anything right that needs to be criticized, so conservatives get what they have coming in that respect. You make it sound as if they aren’t the government. Elections have consequences after all.

In fact, Republicans were looked at as obstructionists and racists throughout Obama’s presidency.

Because they were Weary, truth is a terrible thing isn’t it?

Whatever the problem, it wasn’t the federal government who was to blame, in your eyes it was Republicans and conservatives.

The repubs/conservatives are the federal government Weary. They run it, the won the jerrymandering contest and the electoral college and run the government, Do you really think the entity you call the federal government can be critiqued without mentioning those running the federal government?

But hey you aren’t answering the questions once again, Trump and the Chinese gift, is that an example of good governance or bad governance? Is that what you had in mind when you heard drain the swamp?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 14, 2018 11:35 PM
Comment #426984

Finally!

phx8, you asked for examples of how we are victim to Narcissistic Victim Syndrome.


http://home.conservativepartyusa.org/fear-always-handcuffs-republicans/

Republicans are afraid of the media, Obama and Democrats. They’re afraid to
offend Independents. They’re afraid of getting blamed for a government
shutdown. They’re afraid of unions and illegal aliens. They’re afraid of
Latinos and Blacks. They’re afraid of their own shadows. It’s a wonder
Republicans can get out of bed in the morning and probably don’t walk past
cemeteries at night.

https://www.aim.org/aim-column/republicans-cower-before-big-gay-media/

one of the last people in a prominent political position in the United States to speak about the problem of homosexuality was Rick Santorum when he was a Republican senator from Pennsylvania. “And when he did so, he was badly beaten up…with the instrument of the media,” Reilly notes. This sent a message to other Republicans.

We are seeing history repeated as the Republican governors of Indiana and Arkansas get “beat up” because their legislatures have stood for traditional values and even religious liberty.


https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/will-every-government-shutdown-blamed-republicans/
Then, every year, certain Republicans give away so much leverage over fear of a government shutdown that now, after about a decade of this, they have played their part in the possible destruction of this nation by way of our $20 trillion in debt.

Where does all the fear come from? From the fake outrage ginned up by the media, of course.


http://www.newsweek.com/mo-brooks-fear-assassination-left-wing-violence-leading-gop-lawmakers-quit-904986
“There are a growing number of leftists who believe the way to resolve this is not at the ballot box but through threats and sometimes through violence and assassinations,”

https://www.independentsentinel.com/why-republicans-let-media-tear-the-country-apart/
“What the media is doing is not just to Trump. They’re dividing the country, and they are smearing everybody who is not a left-winger or a Democrat or an activist. They’re smearing everybody. They’re smearing talk radio. They’re smearing people that voted for Trump. They are smearing elected Republicans, Republican staff, doesn’t matter where they are, everybody’s being smeared here.”


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 16, 2018 10:04 PM
Comment #426985
The repubs/conservatives are the federal government Weary. They run it, the won the jerrymandering contest and the electoral college and run the government, Do you really think the entity you call the federal government can be critiqued without mentioning those running the federal government?

Give every man his due, j2t2. What I mean by that is, your local government is more effective than our federal government.

The sooner you realize that, the better off we all will be.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 16, 2018 10:23 PM
Comment #427006

Give every man his due, j2t2. What I mean by that is your local government is more effective than our federal government.

Thank you the red herring response Weary. Are you suggesting the local government isn’t conservative as well? Or are you comparing the responsibilities of the county government with that of the federal government as if they were one and the same? What next Weary corporations can do both jobs better? Come on man stop with the myths and misinformation.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 17, 2018 3:02 PM
Comment #427010

I’m glad you’re comfortable with how things are, j2t2. Good for you.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 17, 2018 4:52 PM
Comment #427428

This is appreciable and wonderful post that you have provided for us.Great site and a great topic as well i really get amazed to read this.
Hypnotism Specialist

Posted by: ninadordev at May 29, 2018 5:38 AM
Comment #427433

So much fun! Beautiful colors!

Posted by: Best akarshan Vashikaran mantra for love at May 29, 2018 9:09 AM
Comment #427824

This post is really astounding one! I was delighted to read this, very much useful. Many thanks
Love Marriage Specialists

Posted by: ruhikhan at June 9, 2018 3:56 AM
Comment #430825

I am glad to see this brilliant post. all the details are awesome and good in this post.
How to Get Your Lost Love Back Baba Ji

Posted by: vashilove at September 1, 2018 9:45 AM
Post a comment