Third Party & Independents Archives

​Was This Past Weekend 1969? Or 1989?

So was this weekend 1969? Or 1989?

If James Hohmann is right, in his Daily 202 in the Washington Post, then it’s 1969. That is, the Cold War historian he quotes, Zachary Jonathan Jacobson, comparing Saturday’s marches to a series of anti-war student marches in October, 1969, says this:


But while Nixon refused to comment publicly on the demonstrations, letting 'it be known that he was watching sports in the White House' that day, we now know that the president was privately spooked. The protests forced Nixon to cancel plans to expand the war, and an offensive of aerial bombing, harbor mining [and] even an invasion of North Vietnam.

The unity of action firmly established that the antiwar movement had a constituency that could be mobilized," he added. "The great achievement ... was to bring a large swath of Americans together in dissent, establishing that their antiwar cause was not fueled by a dangerous fringe that Nixon could, with a few dirty tricks, stamp out or discredit.

A great, sweeping analogy that is bound to lift the hearts of progressives everywhere. A pity there's a few problems with Jacobson's analysis.

President Trump has never been an especially big defender of the 2nd amendment. Even with his new-found alliance with the NRA, we still cannot be sure he wouldn't cut a deal with gun-control advocates on the other side of the aisle if they gave hims something like more money for a border wall. He is definitely NOT the Nixon of gun-rights advocates.
The dangerous fringe - like The Weathermen and The Black Panthers - were real and continued into the 70's sometimes with out and out terrorist tactics like bombings and murders. Some of them, of course, are now respected academics and the mainstreaming of their radical ideology that they promoted in the years since 1969 is the philosophical backbone of the political organizations that were the behind-the-soundbites forces that put together this Saturday's march.
It's hard to say what - if any - real legislation will emerge from these marches, but the anger is real. There is no denying that. What legislation eventually arrives will have to find a way to co-exist with the 2nd amendment. Maybe some day America will leave behind the 2nd. But that day will be the day that America changes forever, and progressives may be very disappointed by the changes they have wrought. By then, however, it will have been too late.
Or. Is it 1989? With a scandalous affair revealed live on Sunday Night television! It seems a mere 24 hours after the interview, that the media is less interested in Madame Daniels spanking up a storm for whatever book or further interviews or articles or blogs or future gig as an American Idol judge she has lined up, than they are in the legal theory that Michael Cohen (Trump's lawyer) by apparently offering the $130,000 to her, broke Election Financing Laws. And of course this could perhaps somehow be carefully shaped into a supposed path to impeachment. Which seems to be the goal behind every and any attack on the president.

Finally, how about we admit it's actually 2018? With a March Madness season that has seen sure things torn down and lowly-rated underdogs surprisingly take the wins. Because that was the television that much of America actually cared about this weekend.

Posted by AllardK at March 28, 2018 1:49 PM
Comments
Comment #425840

Is this article written in English?

Jaysus, it is just awful.

Posted by: phx8 at March 28, 2018 6:52 PM
Comment #425844

I wrote this earlier on my tablet, but it would never post:
///
It’s amazing how bad people who never do research are at connecting the dots. I could give you a clue, but it wouldn’t help you coming from me.

Actual news happens, but fools look at the circus acts instead. Some right wingers are hoping that Dumpty turns back into a Democrat after the midterms, so they will be rid of him. I doubt he’ll last another month.

Two people should be of concern to him because of their own paranoia, Robert Mercer here, and the Fertilizer King in Monaco, who objects to being called russian now.

Michael Wolfe wounded Mercer by calling him and his daughter “professional fools” being used by the likes of Bannon and KAC . He already had to go into denial mode for Renaissance Technology’s sake. Now Cambridge Analytica is finally becoming a problem.

Dmitry Roblahblablayev, similar to Mercer, has some weird obsession with almost being invisible. Neither would react well to being forced into the sunshine.

The news of the past now being rediscovered by the media is the suspicious death of RT’s founder in DC, becoming current again after the UK started looking into Putain’s trail of dead bodies.

People here are very happy about Loyola, but I’m not optimistic.

///

Posted by: ohrealy at March 28, 2018 8:40 PM
Comment #425852

Hmmmmm -
Nothing about the Russian plot to destroy America by putting ‘Roseanne’ back on?

Posted by: kctim at March 29, 2018 11:41 AM
Comment #425854

Roseanne? Didn’t care back then, don’t care now. Stupid people need entertainment too. For a person to be mentally feeble enough to voluntarily watch something like is a sad statement on the state of America.

More relevant but less noticed: “In a federal court filing Tuesday, Mueller described the associate of Gates and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort as “Person A” and said Gates was aware of the person’s links to the GRU intelligence service. The individual has been identified in news reports as Konstantin Kilimnik…”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/28/mueller-rick-gates-russia-ties-489693

Now, let’s break that down. The statement means Mueller has proof. Gates is a cooperating witness, and Mueller has proof about Person A. The case involves a guilty plea by Van der Zwann, and Gates communicated with him and Person A, Kilimnkik, multiple times in September and October 2016. (Extra for experts: Van der Zwann married the daughter of a Russian oligarch!). Gates was communicating with a Russian he KNEW had been with Russian intelligence, right before the election.

Gates has already pleaded guilty to Lying to the FBI and Conspiracy against the United States. At one point he broke that plea bargain and was immediately slapped with another 23 indictments, and which point he promised to be a good boy.

Manafort now faces over 40 indictments.

Don’t worry, kctim, we’re closing in on the crooks and traitors.

Posted by: phx8 at March 29, 2018 1:53 PM
Comment #425855

Sad to see you resort to outright hatred and racism, Phx8. And all because of how they vote. Sad.

“we’re closing in on the crooks and traitors”

Um, ok. I think at least 95% of the right and maybe 50% of the left, are just fine with actual crooks and traitors being held accountable for their actions.
Surely you don’t think people questioning your partisan driven guesswork think otherwise, do you?

You know, it’s been quit entertaining watching your hypocrisy over the years.
Hillary’s private email server was a lie. Then when it became fact, it was no big deal. The classified info was a lie. Then when it became fact, it was no big deal because the info wasn’t important enough.
When told Hillary lied, you called that a lie. When it was proven that Hillary lied, you made excuses.
Best of all though, is that throughout the whole mess, you were on this ‘if she wasn’t convicted, she did no wrong’ kick. LOL!
But with Trump, you had him tried, convicted and hung from day one. No waiting for facts before coming to a judgement, or innocent until proven guilty for him, is there.

If people are guilty of actual collusion, the evidence will prove that and they will be held accountable. The negative impact on the office and country will make good American’s sad, and the leftists half of the dem party will delight in the turmoil. But the country will move on from it.
However, if you guys disrupt and upend the will of the voters over BS that has nothing to do with the administration, things are going to get real ugly for you all.
Be careful what you wish for my friend.

As for me, I will give President Trump the same respect that I gave President Obama on things: I will wait for the facts.

Posted by: kctim at March 29, 2018 3:13 PM
Comment #425857

Pdx8, Manafort may be holding out because he thinks he has a deal for a pardon, or he may be afraid of death by bludgeons. You should listen to Malcolm Nance’s most recent with Stephanie Miller. I think you would enjoy it.

I didn’t see Roseanne either. It’s supposed to be set in a town based on Elgin IL. IRL, Elgin is very diverse.

Posted by: Ohrealy at March 29, 2018 4:44 PM
Comment #425858

ohrealy,
Like I said, I don’t care about Roseanne, nor do I care about Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal or whoever. As far as I’m concerned, the Daniels story has merit only insofar as the president’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, is obviously lying to protect Trump, and paying her $130,000 just eleven days prior to the election broke the law.

Manafort is a tough guy. He runs with crooks and killers. In the past he lobbied for some of the worst people in the world, and not just Russians. I doubt the Mueller investigation will ever get him to talk. Gates was always more vulnerable because he has little kids and apparently cares for them, even if he does not care for his country.

kctim,
Let’s remember, Manafort and Gates headed the Trump Campaign.

Saying Hillary Clinton had an illegal server is wrong. It was perfectly legal. Repeating the same lie over and over will not make it true.

As for respect for Trump-

No.

Racists, bigots, misogynists, xenophobes, homophobes, and Islamaphones will never, ever receive my respect. Never. Especially not a President of the United States.

And if you question any of that, let me know and I will provide quotes from Trump proving he is all of those things. He is a horrible human being. Make no mistake.

Posted by: phx8 at March 29, 2018 6:04 PM
Comment #425859

Stormy Daniels’ lawyer is the most interesting part of that case. Look him up and you will see where he comes from and where he is going.

On Michael Cohen, other interesting details will come out. Someone in DC claims he has two passports, hence the denial of the meeting in wherever it was, Prague or Budapest. These guys seem to be living in a script by Aaron Sorkin. We’ll see how that works out for them. For some reason, his entire series of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip from 2006-7 went up on YT last year. I re-watched it. In the first episode, they’re complaining about the state of television, “Who wants to be like Donald -rump”.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 29, 2018 7:16 PM
Comment #425861

Like kids with a cardboard box.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 29, 2018 7:21 PM
Comment #425864

“Racists, bigots, misogynists, xenophobes, homophobes, and Islamaphones will never, ever receive my respect.”

Mine either phx8. Please explain your respect for Bill or Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 29, 2018 7:45 PM
Comment #425865

It is time for some more prominent Democrats to reveal their true feelings about repealing the 2nd amendment as former justice Stevens has done.

Stevens wrote; the Second Amendment is misunderstood and misinterpreted and should have no place in modern times. And, he called on the “March For Our Lives” movement to press for total repeal of the Bill of Rights.

We hope many democrats running for election in November take up this cause. And, we hope the Democrat Party places this idea into their 2020 presidential nominating convention.


Posted by: Royal Flush at March 29, 2018 7:57 PM
Comment #425870

Phx8,

Let’s remember that the investigation into collusion has not ended and every collusion talking-point parroted on here needs an ‘IF’ and ‘MAY’ as a qualifier by yourself and ohwacky.
Let’s remember that you demanded facts to support the claims against Hillary and Obama, but could care less about facts now.

You are so correct in say “repeating the same lie over and over will not make it true,” so I have to ask why do YOU still do it?
I said “Hillary’s private email server,” so why say I said illegal server? Why say it was perfectly legal when you know darn well that it is a crime to use it for storage and/or transfer of classified material?

Even if all those partisan fantasies about Trump were true, you should still respect the office and love the country enough to not want to tear it apart with the leftist party over country nonsense.

“And if you question any of that, let me know and I will provide quotes from Trump proving he is all of those things.”

Yeh, we tried that before and all you could provide were partisan generalizations from left wing mind readers who know what Trump “really” means.
If you have actual proof, I would love to learn about it. But if it’s the same nonsense I’m going to call you on it.

“He is a horrible human being. Make no mistake.”

I’ve never met the man, so I wouldn’t know. Like most wealthy people he seems a little pompous, but that’s to be expected. He is the typical northeast liberal democrat/Republican type, but I don’t think makes him horrible. I don’t think enforcing immigration law and border security or stricter vetting of refugees makes him horrible. I got a pay raise, not a big as it should of been, but I don’t think makes him horrible. America first isn’t a horrible idea or plan.

Many thought Obama was a horrible American, which is much much worse. I still didn’t treat the President or the country the way leftists are today.

Posted by: kctim at March 30, 2018 9:27 AM
Comment #425871

phx8, and the left in general, are racists. How many times have they pointed out the “old white men” in photos of Republicans. (democratic’s photos are exempt). The news is filled with Democratics denouncing “old white men” and their hold on power. They had no problem with Trump when he was contributing to Democratic’s campaigns, but when he was elected the racism came out in full force.

phx8 can’t stand Trump being in office because Trump is an old white man! Have you denounced your racism yet, phx8?

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 30, 2018 10:30 AM
Comment #425872

“We hope many democrats running for election in November take up this cause.”

They don’t have the guts to do that, Royal.
They’ll just keep using teen activists who lack any knowledge on the subject. Hiding behind kids calling us murderers and terrorists while leading personal attacks against those who use facts.

Posted by: kctim at March 30, 2018 10:34 AM
Comment #425873

I’d like to point out, as a conservative, how many times I’ve been disappointed in the political process. Time after time I’ve felt abandoned by the process, be it the latest budget, faux rights for gay people, a lack of accountability for Democratics and the double standard against conservatives. I ask fellow conservatives how many times have you been let down by the decisions that come out of D.C.?

Now ask yourself why Republicans in general and conservatives in particular are being blamed for the condition this country has devolved into. If we feel like we never get what we want why is it our fault the country is in disarray?

I just don’t get it. It’s more like conservatives are the scapegoat for, not the orchestrate r of, our societal shortcomings. I mean, really!

I could see how conservatives could be blamed if they controlled the bureaucracy, if conservatives were demanding apologies every time a liberal expressed an opinion, if conservatives were creating oppressed factions, if conservatives were getting people fired over jokes and such, if conservatives were sponsoring banns and boycotts, but they’re not. So, why is it conservative’s fault the country is so divided? Why are conservatives getting the blame?

The conservative philosophy for the last several decades has been to go along to get along. Conservative’s are regarded as standing in the way, not initiating. Why are they being blamed?

I just don’t get it.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 30, 2018 11:59 AM
Comment #425874

All just part of the nation’s constant slide to the left, Weary. Been happening since day one.

The more people depend on government, the more representatives there are in DC who support that. The more representatives who support that, the more legislation that puts society before the rights of the individual. The more individuals who accept that, the more the definition of left and right moves to the left.
Just look at what the GOP accepts as ‘freedom’ today:
Freedom of religion, but government can control where and how one exercises that freedom.
To keep and bear arms, but government can control and dictate who, what, where and why.
Freedom of choice, but government can control and mandate the choices you make.
Privacy? Property? Government can strip both of those for its own needs.
You feel let down because the party has moved left and left you behind.

As for blaming the right for everything? Leftist policy is based on emotion and the best way to get it passed when it’s been rejected by voters is to play on the emotions of voters. It is an especially useful tactic in the 50/50 climate we have today.

Posted by: kctim at March 30, 2018 1:05 PM
Comment #425875

Oh, cheer up. Voters will decide about gun laws. Changing the Constitution is extremely difficult, but most issues can be decided at the ballot box and through the courts. And remember, young voters are historically less likely to participate. That is what all the GOP voter suppression has been about all along- make it difficult for teens and the elderly to show up at the polls- and if the gerrymanders hold, maybe a minority will continue to control the political system.

Of course, that is not a very good plan, because it depends on low voter participation, even though this is supposedly a democratic republic. That strategy is certain to eventually fail. One would think attracting more voters would be the aim.

Anyway, there is something valuable to learn from the entire controversy with the Parkland students. Teens today communicate differently from previous generations. They are hooked in to each other in a way most of us do not really comprehends. They socialize differently. They socialize electronically, and it is nearly instantaneous.

When gun advocates offered ‘thoughts and prayers’ as a substitute for action, or ‘now is not the time,’ or ‘they are all just crisis actors,’ (whatever the hell that is), it used to work pretty well. Why did it fail this time? It failed so badly with the Parkland massacre for two reasons: 1) some of the victims were teenagers, and 2) these teenagers communicate differently.

Now fingers are being pointed at the enablers of these massacres. Thoughts and prayers are no longer enough. Kids who have been chased through the hallways of their schools by a maniac with an assault rifle are unwilling to compromise or delay or play nice. They are incredibly bad sports about being hunted and seeing their friends murdered.

Maybe they won’t vote.

Posted by: phx8 at March 30, 2018 3:31 PM
Comment #425876

I really wish you guys would, for once, do things the right way and just change the Constitution, Phx8. A simple majority and activist judges passing unconstitutional laws on this issue will only further divide us and lead to an increase in violence that could be easily avoided.

More than likely, these Parkland students were ‘activists’ BEFORE the shooting. I wouldn’t doubt if they were some of the nutjobs crying or declaring it’s the end of the world when Hillary lost. This time is ‘different’ only because the left has finally stooped low enough to use them and the blood of their classmates to push a political agenda. The way their attitudes and agenda have morphed over the past weeks is proof of that.

And you guys REALLY need to stop using the term ‘assault rifle.’ It makes you look like a liar and just plain silly. Be truthful and just say all semi-auto’s.

Posted by: kctim at March 30, 2018 5:58 PM
Comment #425877

kctim,
A word of advice. Stay away from the argument that suggests people who do not differentiate between an assault rifle and a semi-auto should not have an opinion about being having a hole blown through their chest the size of an orange. It convinces no one. And I mean, NO ONE. Seriously, it is just asinine. Do yourself a favor. Unless you are commiserating with fellow ammos*xuals, don’t go there.

“… these Parkland students were ‘activists’ BEFORE the shooting.”

Awesome. Full-on conspiracy theory. You’re really on a roll. Please, tell me about crisis actors.

(Psst. It’s all Hillary’s fault!)

Posted by: phx8 at March 30, 2018 6:53 PM
Comment #425878

Meanwhile, Trump announced yesterday that the US is pulling out of Syria, effectively ceding victory to Russia, Iran and Assad in Syria. In addition, we have allowed Turkey to attack the Syrian Kurds who achieved the first victory against ISIS in 2014 at Kobani. Great!

Posted by: Rich at March 30, 2018 7:10 PM
Comment #425879

Yeah, Putin is a happy man today.

Over the past week I’ve heard a few minutes of Limbaugh on three separate days. I cannot claim those minutes represented the whole show, but each time, those few minutes presented the same themes, ones very similar to what we see on WB.

1. It is all Hillary’s fault.
2. It is also Obama’s fault. But mostly Hillary.
3. The Parkland students shouldn’t have an opinion.
4. The Parkland students don’t know enough about guns, so they should not be able to object to being hunted in the halls of schools unless they can distinguish between the types of guns used to blow holes through their chests.
5. The Parkland students are too smart- at least for an audience that thinks Roseanne knocks it out of the park- and therefore, they must be coached.
6. Why won’t the students compromise?
7. Why won’t the students agree to delay and do nothing?
8. Marches with hundreds of thousands of people participating do not count because… wait for it… Hillary!

Posted by: phx8 at March 30, 2018 7:24 PM
Comment #425880

Did anyone get to the bottom of why those deputies didn’t go after the shooter, why they waited outside?

No, I don’t think so. We’re too preoccupied with a 16 year old egomaniac who thinks he, by his own words, is “changing the world”.

This kid is going to be so bitter when he realizes he’s not the next Mahatma Gandhi or the next Martin Luther King, Jr. He thinks he is accomplishing something, but when he realizes he doesn’t matter his psyche will be destroyed like a bird hitting the windshield.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 30, 2018 7:46 PM
Comment #425889

“And you guys REALLY need to stop using the term ‘assault rifle.’”.

I agree kctim, anything can become an assault weapon if used in that manner. I may have an assault screwdriver. I am able to control it so far.

Regarding teenage children; once again the Left has found a small group of useful idiots, just as they have with some illegals in this country and with some scientists feeding nonsense into computers to promote MMGW.

These “children” are so powerful, aware, and politically correct that those in college couldn’t attend classes when Trump was elected as they were traumatized. Many colleges and universities provided psychological counseling to these frail brain-dead students. Just as those who oppose illegals coming to and living in our country are called racist, those who oppose politicized teens will be called child abusers.

We all recall how this country was cleverly led into legalizing gay marriage. It started with the Left promoting “s*x” in the bedroom is private.

We all recall how the Left told us that abortion should be “rare” and “uncommon”. Now, it is paid for by taxpayers simply for the woman’s convenience to abort an unwanted baby.

The Left tells us that they don’t want to abolish the 2nd amendment but loudly applaud those who voice that position openly. They make a 17 year old foul-mouthed brain-washed kid their spokesman.

The Left tells us that they want more legal immigration and yet they protect those here illegally. They are now promoting the idea that illegals should be allowed to vote just as citizens do.

The Left tells us that they believe every person should be treated equally and then promote the idea of a minimum guaranteed income for all; paid for only by those who work and earn.

The time has come for all Americans of good conscious and morality to rise up and condemn the horrendous, nation-killing ideas emanating from the Left.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 31, 2018 5:14 PM
Comment #425892
I ask fellow conservatives how many times have you been let down by the decisions that come out of D.C.?
All just part of the nation’s constant slide to the left, Weary. Been happening since day one.

WTF is the matter with you guys? A conservative administration, both houses of Congress controlled by conservatives. The SCOTUS is conservative led especially after the conservatives held up Obama’s choice for Justice and allowed Trump to pick Gorsuch. Most of the states have conservative governors and conservative controlled legislatures. How far to the right are you guys that you actually spout this nonsense? The conservatives in Congress gave this last budget to Trump and he signed it into law and you guys blame the left, do you realize how pathetic that is?

Posted by: j2t2 at March 31, 2018 9:22 PM
Comment #425893

j2t2,
In terms of the big picture, it is a curious thing. The conservative GOP has almost everything it could ask for in order to govern and pass legislation- the White House, the SCOTUS, the House, and a Senate majority that can pass a lot of legislation using reconciliation. If necessary, they could even- gasp! Perish the thought!- bring aboard a handful of Senate Democrats and pass literally anything they want.

And yet, they are utterly incompetent, starting with the president. The fish rots from the head down. They seem to have three achievements at this point: a stolen SCOTUS seat, a tax cut that gives epic amounts of money to the rich and corporations, and a budget that makes even conservatives throw up a little bit in their mouth.

The rest of the conservative agenda is immensely unpopular. Some has been K.O.’d in the courts, partly because it is unconstitutional, but also in part because Trump and Bannon were so incompetent in introducing it, and Trump spewed so much racist and bigoted venom, that judges are literally citing examples in court decisions:

“… Judge Garaufis specifically mentioned Mr. Trump’s statements about Mexico sending “criminals” and “rapists” to the United States and his verbal attacks on an American-born jurist of Mexican descent, Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel of Federal District Court in San Diego. Judge Garaufis also cited Mr. Trump’s assertions — both before and after his inauguration — that Latino immigrants were “animals” and “bad hombres.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/nyregion/daca-lawsuit-trump-brooklyn.html

Teenagers- TEENAGERS, for crying out loud!- speak out. They oppose gun violence after yet another massacre, and conservatives come completely unglued, and moan and whine about how it is unfair, and people shouldn’t complain about being shot if they don’t know the specifications of the gun that blew a hole through them.

The president lies virtually every day, promotes bigotry and hatred, and conservatives either support or overlook it. Instead of creating consensus, they promote division. The president engages in name calling against everyone except Putin.

It is a total mess, a complete inability to GOVERN, and conservatives have no one to blame for their failures except themselves.

Posted by: phx8 at March 31, 2018 10:43 PM
Comment #425897

Yes phx8 they have accomplished much with their gerrymandering, voter suppression and Russian meddling in the election process. They have succeeded in making America small again. Our conservative friends here on WB should be proud of what Trump and his party has done this past year and one half.

The long term strategies of dumbing down the American people has succeeded as well. A bit to well as they seem to have fallen victim to their own ideology. But with DeVos at the helm it shouldn’t be long before all the kids are armed and the classes consist of bible reading and the dept. of education is no longer needed.

The good thing for conservatives is they don’t have to worry about fighting the tyrannical government any longer, it is their government. The bad news is they still whine and blame the opposition instead of their impatience!

I suggest Weary and Kctim, put on some big boy pants and grow some patience. It won’t be long before these same conservatives, that ran up the debt and deficit with their legislation this past year ruin Social Security and Medicare and cut taxes on the rich once again. They will get to the point soon where they will be able to create a crisis, you know the border is so dangerous or some such, and get rid of workfare, the EPA and other nonessential departments in the administration, and privatize the roads and highways of this country.

But be patient guys they are to close to an election to do this stuff right now. We are well on our way to becoming the third world nation conservatives have demanded for years.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 1, 2018 1:14 PM
Comment #425898

Where is Trump’s Nobel Peace Prize? That’s what I want to know.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 1, 2018 1:18 PM
Comment #425899

Putin has it Weary.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 1, 2018 1:51 PM
Comment #425901

Wow! It now makes sense. The Parkland murders were planned in advance. Those seemingly articulate and traumatized kids were nothing but trained sleeper provocateurs waiting for the opportunity. Is there nothing that these anti-gun nuts won’t stoop to?

By the way, why didn’t the Metropolitan Police Department provide any documents in response to the alleged FOIA request. Like for instance, a copy of the permit. Are permits secret?

Posted by: Rich at April 1, 2018 10:40 PM
Comment #425902

Weary, great job on diverting attention with one red herring (the April fools joke about the Parkland shooting)after the other (Trumps Nobel peace prize),each more outlandish than the one before it. All, because you don’t want to answer my question, “WTF is the matter with you guys?”

Posted by: j2t2 at April 2, 2018 1:21 AM
Comment #425903

Say Weary perhaps you conservatives have fallen victim to MSM propaganda and cant help yourself for blaming others for the con job we call conservatism.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 2, 2018 1:36 AM
Comment #425932

I looked over your comment and couldn’t find a question mark in it. What was your question?

I remember when I was a kid, I would watch a news story and then switch the channel to see the same exact news story, almost verbatim, being read by a different head. So, let’s not be pointing out news organizations planting stories like it’s a new, “conservative” thing, ok? Propaganda has been this country’s news staple for 50 years or more. More like 100 years, actually. How else would they pass a constitutional amendment taxing everyone’s labor?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 2, 2018 9:07 AM
Comment #425933

Phx8,
A word of advice for you: When someone from the ‘other side’ gives you helpful advice, at least consider it.
IF you look at the ammo being used against the anti 2nd Amendment people, your lack of knowledge on the subject is at the top of the list. That doesn’t have anything to do with rather you should or should not have an opinion.

It also has absolutely nothing to do with the size of hole ‘being blown through their chest.’ IF it did, you guys wouldn’t be claiming to only be concerned with a much less lethal weapon because it is scary looking.
This is all about banning semi-autos and the registration of all firearms, so stop hiding behind your lies.
Do yourself a favor. IF you want to be taken seriously, be honest with your argument and know what the he11 you are talking about.

“Unless you are commiserating with fellow ammos*xuals, don’t go there.”

Pitiful. Having to resort to name calling, eh? So much for the ‘Now is the time to have the discussion’ BS.
Your hypocrisy only proves that the anti 2nd Amendment folks don’t want honest discussion, you want total surrender.

“Full-on conspiracy theory.”

Gee, coming from someone who has spent the last year or so yapping about Russia changing our election and how decades old compromised Russian assets helped them, that really means a lot. LOL

Actually, it’s an opinion based on their own words and who they have attacked with them. Gun owners = child murderers; NRA = terrorist org; the white privilege nonsense; white boys are the problem. All crap that we have heard from leftists for decades now.

Posted by: kctim at April 2, 2018 9:44 AM
Comment #425934

“They oppose gun violence after yet another massacre, and conservatives come completely unglued, moan and whine about how it is unfair, and people shouldn’t complain…”

Then why hasn’t Jaclyn Corin faced the same criticism, Phx8?
Fact is, the attacks on Hogg and Gonzo are in response to their own very personal attacks on others.

Posted by: kctim at April 2, 2018 9:57 AM
Comment #425937
Propaganda has been this country’s news staple for 50 years or more.

Well I wouldn’t want to argue with you Weary although Fox News hasn’t been around that long. I have noticed that your 50 years aligns closely with the Conservative Movement. I know you don’t want to believe it but 1968 was a pivotal year.

Kctim, nice red herring with that whole “anti 2nd amendment” thing. Seems to me what everybody is against is the mass murdering of school kids with assault weapons. The absurd meme you guys use, you know the one that tells us the founding fathers wanted all of us to be armed with military weapons so we can fight the tyrannical government is what is anti 2nd amendment.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 2, 2018 2:12 PM
Comment #425938

J2,
Yes, everybody is indeed against mass murder, that is why it is illegal.

I know what the 2nd Amendment says and I have read what many of the founders wrote outside of it. If you have found new proof that the right to keep and bear arms was something that the founders did not want ‘the people’ to have, or that they specifically wanted government to control what arms ‘the people’ were allowed to have, I would be most interested in reading it.

Until then, your feelings and ability to read the minds of dead people, just aren’t going to cut it.

Posted by: kctim at April 2, 2018 3:35 PM
Comment #425940

“The conservative GOP…”

What? When did that conversion happen phx8? Get serious please. Would you like me to link to a primer on what conservatism in politics is actually about?

Your comment is as silly as me writing about “moderate Democrats”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 2, 2018 5:55 PM
Comment #425941

My Goodness…what’s going on? Can this be true?

“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-nine percent (49%) disapprove.

Trump’s overall job approval rating is now running ahead of where Barack Obama’s was at this stage of his presidency.

Now that Gallup has quit the field, Rasmussen Reports is the only nationally recognized public opinion firm that still tracks President Trump’s job approval ratings on a daily basis.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr02

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 2, 2018 6:23 PM
Comment #425942

What’s wrong with Sinclair’s message, j2t2? Are you complaining about the message, or are you complaining because they support Trump?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 2, 2018 7:09 PM
Comment #425943

Oh No kctim, I do agree with you the founders were just fine with people “keeping and bearing arms”. The founding fathers also kept military arms in armories so people like Shay didn’t just take over the government.

The 2nd amendment is about the militia and the people bearing arms against other countries not against each other. Many states and localities had restrictive firearm laws since the early 1800’s. To think the 2nd is an absolute freedom that God gave us to carry any type of weapon we choose at any time we choose is the problem,IMHO. That is the NRA version of the 2nd amendment. It is wrong. Else we would all be armed with full auto machine guns and cop killer bullets.


Would you like me to link to a primer on what conservatism in politics is actually about?

Please do Royal. I haven’t had enough propaganda today so please do. I look at conservatism as practiced Royal not as talked about by talk radio conservatives. As we have seen over the years conservatives in Congress have did exactly what their money men told them to. No difference between them and the moderate repubs, all what dozen or so of them.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 2, 2018 7:10 PM
Comment #425944

What a shame to admit to having a closed political mind j2t2. You are also wrong about our Founders attitude about personal arms. Many have provided you with quotes…but your closed mind ignores that as well.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 2, 2018 7:21 PM
Comment #425945

Royal please stop embarrassing yourself with this drivel. The Constitution protects the people from the government, I think we can all agree. The 2nd amendment states “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Which makes sense when you consider we had no standing army to speak of at the time. It wasn’t about the guy on the street, they mostly had arms and the country wasn’t settled, of course they could have arms to defend themselves. Until they went into a city or a church or someplace where they couldn’t. Of course they could have them for participation in the militia.

What the founding fathers didn’t say is “An unregulated populace, being necessary to keep gun sales up, the right of the people to keep and bear arms against their fellow Americans,shall not be infringed.”

The history of the country shows us guns were regulated since the early days of the country. Guns specifically meant for criminals were banned in the ‘30’s. By the NRA and most conservatives own admission the assault weapons are needed for the overthrow of the country, a crime is it not? They aren’t needed for hunting or home defense.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 2, 2018 7:56 PM
Comment #425946

What a sorry attempt to justify the Liberal view of the 2nd amendment. j2t2 can quote it, and then amuse us with what he believes it means. Or, he could read some of the links that have been provided on WB to see what our Founders intended.

But noooooooo…that would be defeat for j2t2’s position. We can’t have honesty and truth. That’s too potent for j2t2.

Sadly, the Liberal position on border security and illegals has evolved just recently from what prominent Democrats believed just a few decades ago. President Eisenhower, with significant Democrat approval, knew how to deal with the problem.

I urge our Liberal “low-brows” to read about a time, not long ago, when Dems and Reps were mostly united on stopping illegals from entering our country. Even Caesar Chavez wanted illegals deported to protect legal Hispanic’s.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 2, 2018 8:05 PM
Comment #425947

This is j2t2’s version of the 2nd Amendment.

To insure a place for the government, the right of the people to bear arms, shall be granted by the government.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 2, 2018 8:22 PM
Comment #425948
But noooooooo…that would be defeat for j2t2’s position. We can’t have honesty and truth. That’s too potent for j2t2.

Seriously Royal would you recognize honesty and truth if it bit you on the a**? I doubt it as you prefer quotes out of context rather than facts from our history. Are you denying the gun laws that existed since the 1790’s.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 3, 2018 1:02 AM
Comment #425955

J2
Those armories were used to store arms for the military, not to prevent civilians from owning those type of arms. If you had the money, you could own anything in those armories.

Shays’s rebellion wasn’t an attempt to “take over the government,” it was the protest of ‘American farmers against state and local enforcement of tax collections and judgments for debt.
If you read through the words of the founders, the words that pro 2nd Amendment people cite, you would see that they stress the importance of the 2nd Amendment being to protect against tyranny, not to “take over the government.”

‘The right of the people’ in the 2nd Amendment is the same as ‘the right of the people’ is in the 1st Amendment and the 4th Amendment. They are individual rights, not privileges granted by government, and there are numerous examples to support this.
If you have proof that ‘the right of the people’ was intended to actually mean ‘these few people of this certain group,’ I am open to learning about it.

The NRA is nothing but a scapegoat for those who want to further infringe on 2nd Amendment rights. It is only targeted because it’s the largest organized group of individuals who oppose further infringement on the right. They are not the actual problem.

The actual problem is the 2nd Amendment itself and the supporters who are saying enough is enough when it comes to infringing upon it. Reinterpreting and redefining what it means is not going to work this time. Like it or not, the 2nd Amendment is a huge part of our culture and further infringement upon it will only lead to much greater violence.
It must be repealed.

“Else we would all be armed with full auto machine guns”

Yes, ‘we the people’ did allow government the power to infringe upon the 2nd Amendment and more or less ban these through heavily regulation, didn’t we. If government can do this with full auto’s, why can’t they just do the same thing with semi-auto’s?
If the anti 2nd Amendment people are going to keep pursuing further infringement upon the right, then this would be much more effective than trying to reinterpret the 2nd Amendment and screaming ‘murderer’ and ‘terrorist’ at those who disagree with you.

Posted by: kctim at April 3, 2018 10:39 AM
Comment #425958
If government can do this with full auto’s, why can’t they just do the same thing with semi-auto’s?

Isn’t that the problem kctim? Some want to ban assault rifles and high capacity for everyday use by everyone. The NRA and others insist it would be a violation of the 2nd amendment and not enforceable. The NRA pays off to many politicians for any ban to become law.

If the anti 2nd Amendment people are going to keep pursuing further infringement upon the right, then this would be much more effective than trying to reinterpret the 2nd Amendment and screaming ‘murderer’ and ‘terrorist’ at those who disagree with you.

Wow so much propaganda in so little space. First people are more anti killing than anti 2nd amendment. Second when have I screamed “terrorist” or “murderer” at you? Third hiding behind the “originalist” interpretation of the 2nd amendment has allowed the NRA to redefine the 2nd amendment. Fourth it isn’t infringement it is responsibility that is the issue kctim. The NRA cannot provide any reasonable answer to the problem nor can you.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 3, 2018 2:18 PM
Comment #425959

Many thanks to our Pal j2t2 for the link in comment #425948 which is mostly about “States Rights” and not the 2nd Amendment. He then claims that Founder’s comments, provided by WB members, defining further what they meant in the 2nd amendment were taken out of context. Please, just one or two examples or just slink away back to your place in darkness.

I see from j2t2’s comments above that the Left has taken a new tact regarding gun rights. “First(,) people are more anti killing than anti 2nd amendment.”

How weak is this argument? Just imagine saying that about the 1st amendment. “People are more interested in banning “hate speech” than keeping “free speech”. Or…”Peaceful assembly is only permitted when the cause is politically correct.” Or…”quoting from the Bible of passages calling homose*uality immoral is not the “free exercise of religion.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 3, 2018 3:30 PM
Comment #425960

The problem for the anti 2nd Amendment people is that American’s have decided to use the difference between full auto and semi-auto to draw their line in the sand. They know that if they give an inch, the anti 2nd Amendment people will take a mile.
That’s one of the reason’s ridiculous terms like ‘assault rifles’ are met with mockery and closed ears.
There is absolutely nothing special about how an AR 15 operates, so what people are really calling for to be banned are semi-auto’s, which would be the vast majority of the guns out there today.

- 99% of people are against killing, J2. Those who blame the 2nd Amendment for those killings, are anti 2nd Amendment.

- You are correct. While many anti 2nd Amendment people scream murderer and terrorist at pro 2nd Amendment people, I do not recall you doing so.

- Nobody is hiding behind an “originalist” interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, it is what it is. Again, you are welcome to provide proof of the founders saying it was not ‘the right of the people.’

- Using lack of responsibility to justify infringement on a right does not work when 99% of your targets display the required responsibility when exercising the right.

Posted by: kctim at April 3, 2018 3:58 PM
Comment #425961

No need to try and ‘imagine’ that Royal, it’s all part of the so-called beliefs of today’s leftist. Give it a few years and it will be part of the dem platform.

Posted by: kctim at April 3, 2018 4:02 PM
Comment #425964

Those Liberals among us who would give citizenship rights to all who manage to cross our borders should loudly proclaim that citizenship is meaningless to them.

Those Liberals among us who loudly proclaim that nations should have no borders should be politely transported to another country of their choosing who will take them.

Those Liberals among us who believe the 2nd amendment should be abolished should first, be legally banned from owning any firearm.

But wait, our Liberal Pals will yell, I have “rights”. Really? Prove it!

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 3, 2018 7:52 PM
Comment #425973

hmm..
IDk but i think i bit

Posted by: Dompet Kulit Bandung at April 4, 2018 6:41 AM
Comment #425983

Guys look the framing “anti 2nd amendment” is silly. It could just as well be “anti baby killers” were you guys honest about things. You have to hide behind the Constitution when the Constitution clearly isn’t intended to allow people to kill people. The NRA since the 80’s has been the chief promoter of this propaganda. Every since it changed from an educational agenda to a gun manufacturer lobbyist group.

As far as the quotes you refer to Royal look them up yourself and get the context in which they were written and the time frame they were said.

The originalist in the SCOTUS rendered the Keller decision which changed years of legal thought on the 2nd amendment. It twisted the intentions of the 2nd amendment to where y’all think God wants you to have assault weapons and that they are needed in schools to defend children from those brandishing assault weapons.

You have refused to accept responsibility that comes with any of the rights we have. You have no answer to protect the schools and cities or anything else other than everyone should be armed because a good guy with a gun can save us all from the bad guy with a gun. IMHO that is more anti 2nd amendment than anything I have said.

The link is from a right leaning site Royal it shows us some of the different laws concerning firearms back to the time of the Constitution. You should appreciate it a bit more instead of trying to twist the intentions of the link.

You want to draw the line between full auto and semi auto weapons but lets face it the full auto weapons were used primarily for criminal activities much like the assault weapons of today.

You guys have a good day I will try to get back on the computer later to finish this up.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 4, 2018 10:30 AM
Comment #425985

“You want to draw the line between full auto and semi auto weapons but lets face it the full auto weapons were used primarily for criminal activities much like the assault weapons of today.”

This statement is utterly retarded. Rifles account for @ 300 murders a year. AR 15s and the like account for a small fraction of those murders. Compare that to the 10s of millions that are legally owned, and this comment is completely false. Machine guns could be legally purchased before the NFA. Many people owned them. The gangsters and motorized bandits using them, again made up a small percentage. Many of these guns are still privately owned. Good luck finding a multitude of crimes committed with NFA weapons, because you won’t. LMFAO

Posted by: dbs at April 4, 2018 10:55 AM
Comment #425986

J2,
Redefining the 2nd Amendment is a losing tactic for you all, especially when you are unable to show that the founders actually meant something other than what it says.
Repealing, replacing or redefining what the 2nd Amendment says, is being anti 2nd Amendment.

Left-wing policy always needs a boogeyman to blame for its rejection. The NRA is that boogeyman.

99% of Americans accept and live responsibly while exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. The very rare exception to the rule does not change that.

Many answers have been given to try and protect our schools, you just don’t like any of them.

The cities are the lefts problem. Outside of the cities where we have a much higher rate of gun ownership, we don’t have those problems.

The anti 2nd Amendment folks inability or unwillingness to define what an “assault weapon” is, negates the opinion that they are primarily used for criminal activities.

Posted by: kctim at April 4, 2018 11:26 AM
Comment #425987

It would be great to have a discussion with Liberals who actually know something about our founding, founders, and the constitution.

This is the same loony lefties bunch that believe computer programs regarding climate are accurate in predicting climate fifty or one hundred years in the future. It is simply silly when they can’t even program computers, using known data from the past, to predict known results today.

Who would have anticipated that children, in the same Florida school who advocated and marched for new procedures to protect them from mass murderers, would now be protesting the “prison-like” conditions at those schools?

We adults know how much common sense children have. Most of them still believe in magic.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 4, 2018 3:35 PM
Comment #425988

I guess what the kids are saying is if there is discipline and structure, it’s prison. I thought I was in prison when I was in high school, also. With them, it’s just like they say, which is refreshing in a way. They say, “When they give us an inch, we will take a mile!”.

I’m ready for the bell to ring and Drama class to be over. I’m ready to go to Reality class and learn about truth. The Sheriff and his deputies have not been heard from. There has been no media coverage of the investigation of the deputies performance. There is no coverage of the lack of discipline of the murderer. There’s just non stop coverage of traumatized children’s being led into this superiority complex by an irresponsible media. Speaking of investigations, why not investigate the news organizations who are abusing these children for political purposes. This is no different than addicts prostituting their children for drug money.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 4, 2018 4:01 PM
Comment #425989

Well of course you are correct Weary. The “children” at that school are protesting see-thru backpacks, which some have filled with tampons to thwart those hired to protect them. My goodness; how draconian officials have become.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 4, 2018 4:09 PM
Comment #425990

No homework, no need for backpacks. The school feeds them, entertains them, provides all they need to be at the school throughout the day. Ban all backpacks and buss everyone to and from the home. No need for cars. No need for backpacks. Just get on the buss.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 4, 2018 4:14 PM
Comment #426022
Redefining the 2nd Amendment is a losing tactic for you all,…

Why kctim, it worked for you guys.

especially when you are unable to show that the founders actually meant something other than what it says.

Once again the originalist on the SCOTUS have warped what the founding fathers meant in Heller and McDonald. The NRA helped and has bought many politicians so yes it is a real boogeyman. We can’t even have a sane discussion about gun control without you guys throwing out so many NRA inspired falsehoods.

Repealing, replacing or redefining what the 2nd Amendment says, is being anti 2nd Amendment.

Repealing/replacing it sure, but most don’t want a repeal/replacing of the 2nd amendment. Redefining the 2nd is what has happened with the Originialist on the SCOTUS. That is the problem. You protest this but a review of the history tells otherwise kctim. As people grasp for solutions to the absurd amount of gun violence in this country some want further restrictions on everybody and anybody owning guns. The NRA and the Originialist have prevented anything and repealed some that did work.

99% of Americans accept and live responsibly while exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. The very rare exception to the rule does not change that

Oh please kctim what nonsense. Only 42% of the households own guns for starters kctim. Yet we have more gun violence than all but a few third world countries.

The cities are the lefts problem. Outside of the cities where we have a much higher rate of gun ownership, we don’t have those problems.

Again BS kctim, it seems you have lost it my friend. The fact is per capita you are wrong. You rate four Pinocchios for this falsehood.Not to mention a WTF is wrong with you for implying the cities are the lefts problem! Heller and McDonald kctim, look at who owns the city problem.


Posted by: j2t2 at April 5, 2018 3:30 PM
Comment #426037

j2


“Oh please kctim what nonsense. Only 42% of the households own guns for starters kctim. Yet we have more gun violence than all but a few third world countries.”

That’s nearly half. And when we eliminate cities like Chicago, DC, and many others which are all controlled by democrats, and have some of the strictest gun control in the country that number drops us down to nearly the bottom.


WTF is wrong with you for implying the cities are the lefts problem! Heller and McDonald kctim, look at who owns the city problem.

The democrats, that’s who owns those problems. Heller has nothing to do with the violence in Chicago etc. Those four pinocchios are on you.


” As people grasp for solutions to the absurd amount of gun violence in this country some want further restrictions on everybody and anybody owning guns.”

All the handwringing in the world won’t make this true. Gun control doesn’t work. That crazy vegan that shot up youtube wasn’t stopped by all of californias absurd gun laws. 10 round magazine limit, firearms safety certificate, 10 day waiting period, registration, safe storage laws, has zero effect on someone who want’s to do harm. Know what would have stopped her ? Yep…..an armed guard at the door.

Posted by: dbs at April 6, 2018 8:19 AM
Comment #426040
That’s nearly half. And when we eliminate cities like Chicago, DC, and many others which are all controlled by democrats, and have some of the strictest gun control in the country that number drops us down to nearly the bottom.

Dbs just because you spout this nonsense doesn’t make it a logical argument. This fantasy that you get to cut the numbers because certain cities have dems in office is puffery dbs, dreams of the right wingers that have no place in a discussion on anything. The whole Chicago meme used by you guys is wrong. The facts tell us so. Just because you refuse to acknowledge facts doesn’t make them any less real.Pathetic argument on you part IMHO.


WTF is wrong with you for implying the cities are the lefts problem! Heller and McDonald kctim, look at who owns the city problem.

The democrats, that’s who owns those problems. Heller has nothing to do with the violence in Chicago etc. Those four pinocchios are on you.

Nice try dbs but once again look at what these originalist decisions have done. They have said states and local municipalities cannot make their own gun restriction laws and have them stand up to constitutional scrutiny. So sorry but the 4 Pinocchios belong to you. No wonder you guys always try to frame this as a 2nd amendment issue instead of a gun violence issue, so disingenuous of you guys.


” As people grasp for solutions to the absurd amount of gun violence in this country some want further restrictions on everybody and anybody owning guns.”

All the handwringing in the world won’t make this true. Gun control doesn’t work.

I have to agree with you dbs but I don’t want to trust me. By admitting that restrictions on guns aren’t effective dbs you only set the stage for gun confiscation IMHO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/10/17/do-tougher-gun-laws-lead-to-dramatically-lower-rates-of-gun-violence/?utm_term=.b038341ef425


That crazy vegan that shot up youtube wasn’t stopped by all of californias absurd gun laws. 10 round magazine limit, firearms safety certificate, 10 day waiting period, registration, safe storage laws, has zero effect on someone who want’s to do harm.

The good thing about this recent shooting is she didn’t have an AR-15 or Uzi with high capacity magazines to kill even more people. It also shows that mental illness isn’t the key it is anger and rage that lead those with weapons to violence. So yep current gun laws don’t solve the problem but they do cut down on the numbers somewhat.

Know what would have stopped her ? Yep…..an armed guard at the door.

Perhaps an armed guard would have seen the weapon and stopped her or died trying to dbs. But do we really want to live as a nation like this? Where we need armed encampments everywhere, like a war zone so you can have your guns? For Christs sake dbs is this what you are saying?

Canada doesn’t have to live in an armed fearful environment waiting for the next bully to force their anger on you. Neither does Australia.

The anger in this country is way to high dbs, you trying to divide the nation into “those areas controlled by dems and the rest of the country. That is wrongheaded and a falsehood. The fact is per capita Alaska and Alabama have the most gun deaths. SO tell me about those big cities in Alaska and Alabama or Wyoming and Montana….or not.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

The sad thing

Posted by: j2t2 at April 6, 2018 12:05 PM
Comment #426041

Why do we blame the use of guns. People will pick up a rock and kill someone with it if they want to do harm. Why is the focus on guns.

I’d be more concerned with ignorance as a cause more than I would the presence of a gun. An ignorant person will become angry enough to kill before a knowledgeable person would. Why isn’t ignorance being blamed instead of the NRA?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 6, 2018 12:36 PM
Comment #426042

j2

“Dbs just because you spout this nonsense doesn’t make it a logical argument. This fantasy that you get to cut the numbers because certain cities have dems in office is puffery “

Nope sorry, facts.

” No wonder you guys always try to frame this as a 2nd amendment issue instead of a gun violence issue,”

I’ve posted the links to the FBI, and CDC statistics before. You just choose to ignore them and continue with childish Ad hominem. Your choice.You also continue to make your revisionist 2nd amendment argument, which has been dis proven time after time.

” By admitting that restrictions on guns aren’t effective dbs you only set the stage for gun confiscation IMHO.”

Good luck with that.

“But do we really want to live as a nation like this? Where we need armed encampments everywhere, like a war zone so you can have your guns? For Christs sake dbs is this what you are saying?”

This melodramatic argument is nonsensical. An armed guard would have discouraged the behavior in the first place.

“So yep current gun laws don’t solve the problem but they do cut down on the numbers somewhat.”

Yes, like they have in places like Chicago.

“The good thing about this recent shooting is she didn’t have an AR-15 or Uzi with high capacity magazines”

The last school shooter didn’t use high capacity magazines either.

When focusing on gun deaths you have to isolate murders, and not count suicides, and people killed in the commission of a crime, IE people who caused their own deaths.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls


Posted by: dbs at April 6, 2018 2:23 PM
Comment #426053


“Regarding the governments ability to impose “Reasonable Restraint” which has now become the mantra of our government. Supporters of the Amendment claim they have a constitutional or Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Opponents counter that even if that were the case, the federal government was granted the general power to place restraints on the right. Both of these assertions are based on a misconception concerning the intent of the document known as the Bill of Rights.

When the Bill of Rights was submitted to the individual States for ratification, it was prefaced with a preamble. As stated in the preamble, the purpose of the Amendments was to prevent the federal government from “misconstruing or abusing its powers.” To accomplish this, “further declaratory and restrictive clauses” were being recommended. The Amendments, when adopted, did not create any so-called constitutional rights or grant the federal government any power over individual rights; they placed additional restraints and qualifications on the powers of the federal government concerning the rights enumerated in the Amendments.

If the Second Amendment is read through the preamble, we find it was incorporated into the Bill of Rights as a “declaratory and restrictive clause” to prevent the federal government from “misconstruing or abusing its power” to infringe on the people’s right to keep and bear arms.
Another way to understand the original intent of the Second Amendment is re-write it through the preamble:

“Because a well-regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the federal government is expressly denied the power to infringe on the people’s right to keep and bear Arms.”

The preamble and original intent of the Amendments has been suppressed by the institutions of government because it would expose their usurpation of power and perversion of Amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.

By advancing the myth that the Amendments grant the American people their individual rights, the federal government has been able to convert enumerated restraints and qualifications on its power into legislative, executive, judicial and administrative power over individual rights. The federal government claims it was granted the constitutional authority to determine the extent of the individual rights enumerated in the Amendments and/or impose “reasonable restraints” on those rights. This assertion is absurd. The federal government does not have the constitutional authority to ignore, circumvent, modify, negate or remove constitutional restraints placed on its power by the Amendments or convert them into a power over the individual right enumerated in the particular restraint.

A denial of power or an enumerated restraint on the exercise of power is not subject to interpretation or modification by the entity the restraint is being imposed upon. The restraints imposed by the Amendments, which were adopted 4 years after the Constitution was ratified, override the legislative, executive, judicial or administrative powers of the federal government. If this were not the case, then the restraints would be meaningless because the federal government could simply circumvent, modify or remove them. Why would the States have requested and adopted enumerated restraints on federal power, subsequent to their ratification of the Constitution, if the federal government possessed the authority to nullify them?

When the federal government infringes on one of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights it is not violating anyone’s constitutional rights; it is violating the additional restraint or qualification placed on its power by the particular Amendment where the right is enumerated. The distinction between rights and restraints is critical. [The right is not given by the Federal Government. Our rights are given by God and are inalienable. Therefore, they can’t be limited or taken away.]

As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the American people have unalienable rights that come from a higher source than government or a written document. By acknowledging that people have natural rights, which are bestowed by a creator, the Founders laid the foundation for the principle that government does not have the lawful authority to take away or infringe on those rights. This principle was incorporated into the preamble and structure of the Amendments to secure individual rights from government encroachment; that is why they were designed and imposed as restraints on the exercise of power.

If the individual rights of the people had been created by the Constitution or an amendment to the document, then they would cease to be unalienable because the right would depend on the existence of a document. If the document or a provision of the document disappeared, so would the right. The belief that individual rights were created by a written document has opened the door for the federal government to claim the power to define the extent of any right enumerated in an Amendment. This has transformed constitutional restraints placed on federal power into subjective determinations of individual rights by the institutions of government. By failing to understand the difference between amendments that create rights and amendments that impose restraints on government, the American people are watching their individual rights vanish as they are reduced to the status of privileges bestowed by government because the constitutional restraints placed on federal power are being replaced by government decree.

Opponents of the Second Amendment always try to diminish the right enumerated in the Amendment by asserting that rights are not absolute. This is just another straw man argument because the Amendment is about imposing a restraint of the powers of the federal government concerning a right: not granting a right or defining the extent of a right. In addition, a review of the Second Amendment shows that the restraint imposed by the Amendment does not contain any exceptions.”

Posted by: dbs at April 7, 2018 8:11 AM
Comment #426057

Many thanks dbs for taking the time to thoroughly examine and state the hugely significant and important difference between “rights” and “restraints” as applied to the Constitution.

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Comment #426185

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