Third Party & Independents Archives

Dealing With School Shootings

IMO, it’s not feasible, effective to involve law enforcement in the school shooting issue. The Florida school had one or two persons on site acting in a law enforcement capacity. This was a large school, probably multiple egresses, multiple buildings in some cases. Broward county sheriff just now suggesting two or three armed security officers with proper training. Probably not affordable on it’s face.

What we need to do is involve the student body. The student body should vote on students who have volunteered to carry a gun and protect their fellow classmates. The students who volunteer should be juniors and seniors, provide their own firearm and be checked out on it's use with a local lawman.

The armed students understand that if a situation occurs they are to go to the shooter and take him/her out asap. Students have enough sense, or should be told to exit the school the quickest way. That would be to run from the sound of gunfire, hit the woods, get behind cars and so on . . .

Plenty of ways to tweak it around. Could just let junior and senior classes vote. Maybe each class could vote in a few people and those people stand for a final vote.

This is the way it was done a couple of hundred years ago. Strong students protecting the weaker. Would still work, IMO.

Insurance companies would probably nix the idea.

Posted by Roy Ellis at February 15, 2018 1:13 PM
Comments
Comment #424377

In the previous thread, Blaine posted something truly shameful: “… a registered democrat psychopath killed 17 people with a gun.” That is false. The statement came from confusing the shooter with a different person with a similar name. In fact, the shooter had no political affiliation.

For shame, Blaine.

The shooter did, however, have an affiliation with a white supremacist group, the Republic of Florida (ROF). They’re a white identity group looking to create a “white ethnostate” in FL. The shooter trained with them. Guess that is what you call a ‘well-regulated militia.’

The gun, an AR-15 or a similar type of military assault weapon, was legally purchased last year.

The most effective response I’ve seen is to show the quotes of Republican politicians offering ‘thoughts and prayers,’ and then show how much money the NRA gave them, and then show what they have done in the aftermath of the Las Vegas and other shootings- nothing whatsoever.

Posted by: phx8 at February 15, 2018 2:36 PM
Comment #424378

Half stepping Roy won’t solve the problem. Providing trained security guards, metal detectors,and such would cost money so screw that…right? But let me get something straight on you plan. Would these kids the class voted on (because they did it that way years ago!)be carrying assault rifles full time to each class, PE, lunch, in the parking lot and home with them? Or would you give them a handgun, you know send them up against an AR-15 with a handgun because they have also been trained on tactics. Would you let your kid be the kid the class voted to be the one legged man in the a** kicking contest?

Or would you insist they be locked away waiting for the shooter to get off his first clip before they return fire? Yep sounds like half steeping to me Roy.

I still think we should arm each and every American and now lower the age to cover all schools not just high school. Lets see 5 years old isn’t to young to protect the weak…right? Because if we don’t arm the elementary schools you know they will become the targets and hey Newtown…right?

At this school in Florida it was so big 1 cop couldn’t get to the shooter! So it is time to arm all these kids including the weak IMHO. A class just as you described for the few strong kids would work for all these kids…right?

You know what the he** Roy we have trained vets living on the streets all over the country , lets give them a place to stay at these schools and arm them with military grade assault rifles. Let them protect our kids and grand kids. Cause we don’t want to spend money to solve the problem nor do we want to help the mentally ill nor do we want to have gun confiscation so lets just continue the way we are.

Someone shoots up a bunch of kids in a school the NRA send a few million in bribes to our elected representatives, our elected representatives send prayers and condolences because it is cheaper. WE talk semantics about different guns and NRA talking points about people kill people and knives and screwdrivers. Whatever we do it has to be cheap, that is what is the most important…right?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 15, 2018 2:52 PM
Comment #424379

Every class room has a teacher. Every teacher should be armed. If we’re going to jam our children into giant sardine cans every day we should demand they be protected.

Who was it that said students should bring canned goods to school to protect themselves?
Who was it that said students should stay in place? That epitomizes the term “sitting duck” doesn’t it.

Obviously the promotion of ignorance about firearms has led to these situations. Being afraid of a gun doesn’t protect you from one. Another gun, and knowing how to use it, and having it when you need it, will eliminate these types of situations.

We need to quit being stupid about firearms.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 3:23 PM
Comment #424380

There you go, Roy. You present an idea to discuss and all the left wants to do is spout emotional drivel, nonsense about “military grade assault rifles”, and scream “NRA”.
Unfortunately, they have no desire to address the actual issue. Thankfully, their own words give away the only goal they will accept.

As far as your post and arming students, it’s not something I could support.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2018 3:23 PM
Comment #424381

Arming students isn’t necessary in the K-12 situation. Arming teachers is. The only person who will stop someone with a gun is another person with a gun. Many people with guns will greatly increase the chances of stopping the assailant.

Let’s stop being stupid about firearms.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 3:31 PM
Comment #424382

Society dropped the ball on this one along with law enforcement. The signs were there and no one acted. Heck even the students knew Cruz had problems. If it wasn’t a gun he could have used a car, truck, homemade bomb or whatever. D.C. needs to come up with common sense laws but expecting D.C. to act with common sense may be asking to much.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 15, 2018 4:34 PM
Comment #424383

The biggest problem I see is that we all just turn to the east with dumb looks on our faces expecting people who we know are out of touch to do SOMETHING! ANYTHING!

And, since we know what they’ve been doing isn’t working I can’t understand why we keep expecting them to do anything. You know, for the children…

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 4:51 PM
Comment #424384

The people who promote gun control are the people who caused this. They’ve been hounding us about gun control for decades and this is what we’ve ended up with. Dumping more of the same on top of this is just going to make it worse. It’s time to put blame where blame due. These gun control people promote free fire zones. They’ve caused this. They need to shut up because what they’re selling is getting people killed.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 4:55 PM
Comment #424385

Wow kctim, right up to the moment with the NRA talking points. yet still have the audacity to say we don’t want to address the actual issue! Then locking us into only one solution yours… right?

We all know the only real solution is to limit guns, just as we all know that isn’t going to happen as long as the NRA continues to bribe our elected officials. So we need to come up with another answer so we can all open carry our AR-15’s while keeping the schools from being shot up.

Roy threw a monkey wrench into the issue when he said we need to fix it on the cheap like the agrarian nation of less than 100 million people would have done when Washington was president. You disagreed with his fix so what is your answer to fixing it on the cheap?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 15, 2018 5:06 PM
Comment #424386

Sorry j2t2; I fail to find humor in your obnoxious comments concerning the murder of innocents. Please wash your brain with Lysol disinfectant.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2018 5:09 PM
Comment #424387

How are you going to limit guns, j2t2? Are you going to give guns to only certain people and tell them to go out and take (limit) guns from others? Who decides who gets the guns and who doesn’t? You?

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 5:15 PM
Comment #424388

These school shooting killers are bullies, murdering the defenseless. Why don’t they attack police stations or the military? Could it be that armed folks able to defend themselves presents a risk they won’t take? I think it is. None of these killers were so mentally incapacitated that they attack armed people.

Let’s face it folks, there is no offense that will work and not violate our individual Constitutional Rights.

We are left with devising a better defense. A better defense is armed readiness. The who, and how many armed defenders, is the question.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2018 5:22 PM
Comment #424389

You said you don’t own guns. You’ve implemented a 100% successful gun control program. I commend you on solving your gun control dilemma. You should promote your solution to anyone who will listen. You didn’t need D.C. to implement it for you. Why do you think everyone else does when you didn’t? Just tell people how successful your program is and they will implement their own program as well.

Rome wasn’t built in a day, j2t2. However, it did take some work. Romans didn’t just look to the east and expect it to build itself.



Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 5:27 PM
Comment #424390

phx8 opined, “for shame Blaine”. Well that answers a question I have had; either phx8 is a liberal woman, or he is a girly man.

But I also said this shooter will be another terrorist who slipped through the cracks. I think it’s time we started thinking outside the box. Perhaps it’s time to try something new. The school systems have spent decades merging independent districts into huge school systems with thousands of students. This killer wasn’t even a student, he was an adult. But there is no way the police or the government can protect schools from this situation. A non-student walked into the school, past guards, past metal detectors, and carrying a rifle. How does this happen? Perhaps it’s time to allow students to do their schooling on line , from the safety of their homes? The government spends enough money nationwide to provide computers and internet access, as well as paying a wage to one of the parents, to school them at home. The left immediately calls for the violation of our constitutional rights by calling for more gun control. No amount of gun control would stop an evil person who wants to kill. He could have run over students with a car, he could have entered the school with a butcher knife and ran through the halls slashing throats. Shall we ban cars or butcher knives?

There are dozens of reasons that we are where we are today.

Posted by: Blaine at February 15, 2018 5:36 PM
Comment #424391

Wow J2, dismissing and deflecting by shouting “talking points”? What a shock. How long before we get the nazi and racist BS?

There isn’t “only one solution” to this mess. The society we have morphed into over the past 40-50 years has produced these nuts and it would take addressing all of it to fix it. And limiting individual rights as you suggest, is not the answer.

Spare us the ‘NRA is evil’ nonsense. It may rile up the leftist extremists, maybe even scare up support from a few normal Americans who are weak, but it has nothing to do with a serious discussion on the issue.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2018 5:46 PM
Comment #424392

Kctim is correct. It’s a combination of many things. Violent video games, violent movies, the lack of school administrators and teachers from punishing students, the government declaring abortion (the murder of babies) to be nothing more than removing a piece of flesh, the removal of God from our schools and the constant attacks on Christianity, leading to a loss of morality, the breakdown of the family, and the teaching to our youth the doctrine of situation ethics. All of these things started in the 1960’s. My generation was the last generation that was taught patriotism, that read the Bible and had teachers who started the class (in public school) with prayer. If you got out of line in school, you were sent to the principal’s office, which meant a swat. If a child is taught that life means nothing, why are we surprised when a child becomes deadly violent. We have brought this on ourselves and nothing can be done because of political correctness. Every one of these cases are eventually determined to be a case of a person slipping through the cracks. This guy was reported last September as being dangerous to the FBI, but they did nothing. “See something, say something”, means nothing if it’s not PC to do something.

Every single fault that I listed is the result of liberalism. The problems our nation faces is minute to the problems liberal controlled cities face. Cities have disarmed their citizens and yet we find they are the bastions of death by guns. The only thing the left has done is to disarm the cities population, and armed the criminals. This is what the left would like to do to all of America. It is the left who has promoted the breakdown of the family unit. It is the left who has destroyed the public schools ability to control the students. It is the left who has removed God and prayer from the schools, leading to the breakdown of morality. It is the left who has promoted the killings of babies through abortion, teaching children that life means nothing.

And here we are again, listening to the left talk as if they are outraged and calling for more gun control.

Posted by: Blaine at February 15, 2018 6:06 PM
Comment #424393

How can we expect reasonable answers to gun violence and other crimes from those who support sanctuary for lawbreakers? The message is, break the law and we will protect you.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 15, 2018 6:56 PM
Comment #424394

Boy they are out in force today, so ready to pass blame on everyone that doesn’t contribute to the NRA. Lets work our way up the comment list.

Blaine were your theory true you would be able to explain why it is many Europeans that have suffered through the same liberalism doesn’t have the school shooting like we do? If you remember we had violence on TV and at the movies while we were growing up. Yet we didn’t think to go and shoot at kids at our schools on a regular basis.

Kctim, Who said the NRA were evil. I said they bribed our elected representatives every time there is a school shooting which is an accurate reflection of the facts.

Blaine again. ON line schooling! My god man is this the best solution! how many other countries use this to solve the problem? I thought Roy was trying to fix it on the cheap. Your negative attitude (the police can’t protect the schools) and your inane NRA talking points (“No amount of gun control would stop an evil person who wants to kill. He could have run over students with a car, he could have entered the school with a butcher knife and ran through the halls slashing throats”) only serve to obfuscate the discussion.

Royal, still more NRA talking points yet not one of you will address why other countries can keep mass murders in schools to a minimum.

Weary I didn’t say anything like that. But you are a piece of work blaming gun control as the reason kids are mass murdered in schools so often in this country. My god man Cruz had the weapon legally so you blame the cops because they should have know he was off in the head! Talk about constitutional rights being violated.

Royal what humor are you talking about? This is conservative logic I am using not humor.

Conservatives in general, any time you give someone authority to kill another person and then arm them with the weapon to do so someone or something will get killed,it is just a matter of time. Look at the police today, militarized because they need to defend themselves against all those running the streets carrying AR-15’s. They shoot first and shoot to kill. Do we trust them in a school day in and day out?

Continued escalation of the arms race over the years hasn’t solves the problem. Why would we think it will now?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 15, 2018 7:46 PM
Comment #424395

Oh, lets stop arguing about this. The Onion article sums up our situation best: https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659

Perhaps we should just appropriate some money to provide victims a nice funeral and provide grievance counseling for the families.

Posted by: Rich at February 15, 2018 9:08 PM
Comment #424396


81 degrees in Luray today. Should we be scared?

Dang, outright rejection. Well, lemme try again, by the numbers.

J2, good point on protecting elementary/middle schools. I suppose the best option there is to use staff volunteers where sufficient numbers could be found. Not joking, but, I believe most teachers are liberals and it might be impossible to find enough volunteers to form an effective force. Additionally, you’ve got age, physical ability and all that stuff to contend with. Teachers seem best at trying to hide their students in a classroom, closet, and so on …

J2, yes, tt would be cheap to use HS students but it’s not a money issue. It’s a numbers issue. Doesn’t make sense to try to attach a squadron of say, 20 military types to every school in the country. There is no threat to a school UNTIL there is a threat, maybe once in a hundred years. The only people who could respond, effectively, to a threat like that are the students/faculty.

J2, on guns in general. An AR-15 is a long range gun. At close range a pistol may be a better choice than the AR. A 22 cal. will kill you as daid as a 30-06, etc. If my kid wanted to volunteer and with the proper training I would encourage his participation. On leaving school they might place their gun in a school gun locker and pick it up there in the mornings. Locker might be managed by the single law enforcement type or similar. And, no J2, we don’t want the guns locked away during school hours.

J2, I’ll try again on the selection. You know in your jr and sr years there were a few kids who stood out as being mature, exhibiting common sense and all that . .. and who understands kids better than their classmates? So, each class would vote on say, 3 to 5 students that have agreed to serve. Then, the entire jr/sr student body would vote on those that had previously been selected by class vote. I would think 15-20 would be an adequate defense force.

I would think in many schools the jrs/srs on the sports teams would take on the job with pride. They should be supported by the school. Like communicating to students re those who might be serious problems, put up pix on Bboards of expelled students, etc. Like, the kids in this school knew this shooter had been expelled and wasn’t allowed to return. They knew what he looked like, had heard his threats. The cops responding to the shooting knew none of this and the shooter went out of the building and was loose for an hour before they found him. The kids know whats going on in a school.

Weary, totally agree with your 424379. Yeah, I think it was an Alabama elementary school professor who suggested the canned goods assault. And, what sense does it make to hide students behind wallboard walls?

Agree kctim, any suggestions from the left will involve running from the shooter and/or getting rid of all or some guns. One can only imagine where the left would take us if they disarm us. ‘If you don’t support the emperor then you are crazi and must be locked up’, and so on …

WW, you are spot on about creating free fire zones. The ONLY way to stop a shooter is to outgun him. I would have no problem passing a law to allow folks age 18 to be licensed to have a gun. I would have no problem letting these folks carry in the schools.

Right Royal, the who and how many. And, that’s what I apply to the HS’s and high learning estabs.

Come on, Blaine. The solution is not to run and hide from this or any other problem. It’s putting up a show of force. That’s the far left answer. The extreme right answer is for a bunch of father’s to run the shooter to ground and take his body down to half dollar sized pieces of meat. There would only be one school shooting were that the case. But, we have to be somewhat civilized.

This fellow is not a mental case. He is a mere boy from a broken family. His mom wasn’t able to discipline him. In other words, a smart assed kid. That’s what we will find. Not a terrorist. This guy is not smart enough to be a terrorist, doubt if he could spell the word.

So, this would be a special type of license that limits the user to only be licensed to carry when inside their school facility and the school is ‘open for business’. The student force should be tested a couple of times a year on quick recognition of others on the force. Only allow additions at the beginning of the school year. They should respond by going straight to the sound of gunfire. The faculty should respond by getting everybody out and away from the school as quickly as possible.

I’ve no doubt the young people would love to participate in and take a lot of pride in doing ‘a good job’.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 15, 2018 9:13 PM
Comment #424397

You said you don’t have any guns. If I’m wrong then my bad. Who would you want to limit your ownership of guns, j2t2? Who would you give permission to determine whether you should keep the weapons you own.

It’s not a rhetorical question.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 15, 2018 9:20 PM
Comment #424398

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/who-nikolas-cruz-florida-school-shooter-joked-about-guns-worried-n848266

url explains very well why this young fellow did what he did

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 15, 2018 9:24 PM
Comment #424399

The Onion is a more accurate news source than Fux.

I’ve only ever been inside any public school buildings maybe four times in my life, mostly to vote. A conspiracy theorist might think someone who wants to end the public school system is behind all these mass murders.

The right wingers here usually shut up for a couple of days after one of these mass murders happens, like they know they’re guilty. Now, they have no shame left, the people of the DirT (boden). We can see who their leaders are, nazis.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 15, 2018 9:32 PM
Comment #424400

Phx8 said:

“For shame, Blaine.

The shooter did, however, have an affiliation with a white supremacist group, the Republic of Florida (ROF). They’re a white identity group looking to create a “white ethnostate” in FL. The shooter trained with them. Guess that is what you call a ‘well-regulated militia.”

It turns out phx8 was wrong. The ADL made the comment the shooter was affiliated with a white supremacy group. The fake media picked up on the story and off phx8 goes. Don’t you feel really stupid that you fell for another fake media story?

Posted by: Blaine at February 15, 2018 9:49 PM
Comment #424401

Something for the liberals, if they don’t mind spending a little money. Each school system might purchase robots for say, $100k/ea. The bots would be about 2ft x 2 x 2 with a 12 ga automatic shotgun mounted on top. Could travel the hallways at up to 40 mph. Might have a big honky camera to mask the real camera. Provide 360 deg camera coverage to monitors back at the head shed.

One would think all schools have hallway cameras, they should.

The bot could operate on manual or auto. On auto it would lock onto the target you select, go to it and open fire starting at 20’. Buckshot recommended.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 15, 2018 9:53 PM
Comment #424402

Liberals would vote to have the bot modified. Replace the gun with an electric dart that wouldn’t injury anybody but would give them enuff juice to make them drop their weapon…

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 15, 2018 10:09 PM
Comment #424403

The most important thing we should know about Cruz is he is a DEMOCRAT!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 15, 2018 10:54 PM
Comment #424404

Blaine,
As for the ROF, its leader claimed the shooter trained with them. Three high school students attested the shooter belonged to the ROF and they saw him with the leader. However, the leader lived over 400 miles away from the high school, and it is suspected the head of the ROF just wanted publicity. Law enforcement can find no connection between the ROF and the shooter, so until there is more evidence, that connection should be taken with a grain of salt.

KAP,
No, the shooter was mixed up with a person with a similar name. The shooter had no official political affiliation.

He did use a twitter avatar showing him wearing a red MAGA hat.

Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 12:21 AM
Comment #424410

With a name like Nikolas de Jesus Cruz, in a predominantly Hispanic community, I’m curious why we haven’t heard anything about his ethnicity? Was he legal, illegal, a dreamer?

Phx8, as usual, you spout fake news, but in reality have no idea what you’re talking about.

I would like to ask my conservative friends on WB a hypothetical question; if the democrats were to be able to pass a single law that they believed could prevent these school shootings, who believes the democrats would be satisfied? I would venture to say no one. Democrats are liars, they would never be satisfied until they completely did away with the 2nd amendment.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 7:48 AM
Comment #424412

Well, I’ve been waiting for it; the former head of the Boston police department just said the shooter fell through the cracks. Expelled three times fro schools, reported to the FBI for a Youtube video claiming he wanted to be a professional school shooter, police called to his residence multiple times, fellow students and teachers claiming he wasn’t right….but he fell through the cracks. Every single mass murderer in the past 20 years has somehow fallen through the cracks. The FBI couldn’t find this guy, even though they had his real name, but they have been able to spend hundreds of thousands of hours investigating Trump for amade up issue. As I said earlier, every single problem America faces can be laid at the feet of democrat liberal policies.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 9:19 AM
Comment #424413

J2,

“I said they bribed our elected representatives every time there is a school shooting which is an accurate reflection of the facts.”

No, it is not.
First, how in the he11 do you bribe someone to support what they already support?

The NRA supports the 2nd Amendment. The elected representatives support the 2nd Amendment. Voters give both the power to protect our 2nd Amendment rights.

“yet not one of you will address why other countries can keep mass murders in schools to a minimum.”

It’s simple, J2: Because those governments don’t have to deal with individual rights as ours does. They are free to infringe on, or strip away, whatever ‘individual rights’ they want if they deem it to be what’s best for their society.
Basically, it works for them because their people have never known the true freedoms on which our country was founded on.

Fact is, J2, the problem you leftist face isn’t the AR-15, it’s Americans who still support the ideas on which this country was founded on. They are the one’s who have prevented you from circumventing the Constitution to your satisfaction, so your only other option is to turn people against it.

Contrary to what you think, Americans aren’t stupid, J2. They know this is about control, it has nothing to do the AR-15.

Posted by: kctim at February 16, 2018 9:31 AM
Comment #424414

I’ve been saying for years that Democratic’s policies are causing these incidences. The ends justify the means. They want to remove the 2nd amendment so they ignore it as it’s written and write laws that subvert it and bring about these instances so they can write more laws to subvert it further. Drip, drip, drip. Each law, just a little drip, drops into a larger pot big enough to drown the 2nd

And all the while they complain about violating the constitution.

My god man Cruz had the weapon legally so you blame the cops because they should have know he was off in the head! Talk about constitutional rights being violated.
Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 9:34 AM
Comment #424415

Rich, the only way to stop arguing about this is to repeal the Second Amendment. We do that and we establish that owning a firearm is a privilege and not a right.

I suggest that the democratic party show just how concerned and serious they are by putting it in their platform. To placate the few moderate democrats left in the party, democrats could say that government will let citizens own one single shot long gun, or one single shot handgun, provided they have passed an extensive background check, extensive training, have insurance, and register them.

Posted by: kctim at February 16, 2018 9:56 AM
Comment #424416
the shooter was mixed up with a person with a similar name. The shooter had no official political affiliation. He did use a twitter avatar showing him wearing a red MAGA hat. Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 12:21 AM

This sick MAGA DirT went to the freshman end of the building to kill the youngest kids he could find there.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 16, 2018 10:00 AM
Comment #424417

The 2nd amendment was written to protect the general citizenry from the gov’t should it ever become overbearing and choose to no longer live under the limitations placed on it by the constitution. This is the primary reason we should always be able to posses weapons capable of being used in battle.

The left will ridicule this as extremist, but forget that those who wrote the constitution never believed the 2nd amend. would be needed on a day to day basis, but believed that over time it was a natural progression for gov’t to little by little encroach on individual liberty in the name of the common good, so they added it to give the citizens the ability to push back. It was designed to be a reminder that the ultimate power resides with individuals. There is no doubt in my mind that at some point the 2nd amendment will be needed. When or how far in the future no one knows. But to believe that we can predict future events long after we are gone is foolish. To destroy these rights through gov’t mandated gun laws is the surest way to ensure future generations will be helpless against tyranny. History has shown us time and time again the disarming a populace never ends well.

You have to ask yourself why this has become a recent phenomenon. It seems to have started with columbine. Guns were far easier to get in the 60s and 70s yet I cant recall a single mass school shooting back then. Guns are not the problem, and more gun laws will not prevent future incidents. At this point the remedy is to end the practice of making schools soft targets.


Posted by: dbs at February 16, 2018 10:19 AM
Comment #424418

Weary Willie

You left out the most important part. Appoint judges that will uphold the laws they write to subvert the 2nd amendment, and the constitution in general. Look no further than the 9th circuit court of appeals. Sad thing is that by the time they realize they rendered themselves and the general population helpless, it’ll be too late. The individual freedom that was fought so hard for will be only be a distant memory, and a story of history to our posterity. So very sad

Posted by: dbs at February 16, 2018 10:41 AM
Comment #424420

The united states citizenry will never be helpless. Politicians can write law after law and it will not affect the number of guns in this country or those who are trained or train themselves to use them.

“Gun Control” is a fantasy that is totally unreachable. People can take guns from weaker people but stronger people with guns will take them back. Examine the French Mercenaries and how they did it.

This type of violence will go on as long as Democratics oppose the ownership of firearms. The harder they push, the harder the push back will be. That’s why they need to shut up about gun control.

Let’s stop being stupid about firearms. Arm teachers and allow responsible students to carry. This guy wouldn’t walk into a school, past security, past metal detectors, past supposedly locked doors, if he knew he would be walking into a building full of armed people. Would you?

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 11:05 AM
Comment #424421

Think about it. For the left to achieve their goal they would have to arm a segment of society to enforce it. Yet they can’t see the conundrum they’re constructing for themselves.

I think it’s called insanity.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 11:09 AM
Comment #424422

Wow still at it conservatives. lets see…today…lets tackle the biggest myth you guys have thrown out here. IMHO the biggest myth award for this thread goes to dbs for his oft repeated “The 2nd amendment was written to protect the general citizenry from the government should it become “overbearing”! Yep the founding fathers sure thought that when shortly after Shays rebellion they crafted the Constitution and the bill of rights. It is no mistake the NRA leaving out the first part of the 2nd amendment in their motto.

A well regulated militia in a time of no standing army means state militias doesn’t it? Even then the military weapons were kept in an armory not at people houses, ask Shay if you doubt this. Only the revisionism of the NRA this past 40 years has led us to believe the crap dbs spouts.

OH wait even more outrageous claims from the NRA talking points crowd. Sorry dbs while an especially erroneous myth you may not get the award afterall look at all these myths !

“The only way to stop arguing about this is to repeal the 2nd amendment” from kctim. Wrong kctim we do not need to repeal the 2nd amendment we need to stop using the revisionist interpretation of the 2nd amendment. To think the founding fathers wanted any and all military weapons to be kept by individuals for everyday use is just wrong guys.

Gun control is a fantasy says Weary. BS I say. this foolishness blows up in your face Weary when you look at other countries that don’t have the extreme interpretation of gun rights as we do. Even our history tells us it wasn’t until the NRA went to extremes and became a political 2nd amendment organization that the mass killings happened regularly.

Many would have us believe the problem is due to liberalism in the 60’s and some such nonsense as Blaine has used to divert attention from the real reason. At the same time , the 60’s, conservatives started on revising the 2nd amendment, with a full head of steam in the late 70’s and early 80’s they achieve a reinterpretation of the 2nd amendment. This has led to an arms race, militarized police and mass killings on a regular basis. Not video games and god staying out of the schools or abortions as some foolishly believe.

Conservatives, your lies and extreme right wing myths have allowed another mass killer to have his way with our kids and grandkids.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 16, 2018 12:29 PM
Comment #424423

phx8, I don’t really care if he was a democrat or not. The problem is the FBI and other law enforcement and society in general dropped the ball on this guy. The school knew he had problems, the kids at the school knew he had problems, WE are to blame for the mass shooting in Florida not the guns. In New York a guy used a truck, Boston 2 bombs, London a truck was used, Paris also a truck was used. PEOPLE are the problem and as soon as WE recognize that WE can start common sense dialogue, not this knee jerk BULLS**T democrats come up with every time something like this happens.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 16, 2018 12:29 PM
Comment #424424

Oh crap I missed the most outrageous myth in this thread, good job Blaine. I usually bypass you BS so it was my fault but to claim all the mass killers from the past 20 years have “fallen through the cracks” is hands down the feeblest NRA taking point I have heard. You blame the police, the FBI and liberal policies, what a joke you have become. This may well be the biggest lie nominee for this thread, Goebbels would be proud as would the NRA.

Look over there, that the problem no really its the cops not the bank robbers. The cops are mental health experts that can institutionalize ….people …anytime…oh wait they aren’t. You must be thinking of the thought crime police Blaine.

If the police were to arrest every kid that had a facebook or instagram page that…. well how many conservatives would survive the cut? This shooter was wearing a Trump hat!

While I am thinking about it I do have to say kudos to all you conservatives posting on this thread for one thing, but darned if I can remember what it was know. So much obfuscation so many foolish talking points, so much blame the victim, blame the dems, blame everybody but us type posts. Oh yeah the problem won’t be solved by stricter gun laws alone unless we go to the other extreme and confiscate guns and ammo. SO we need to come up with the money to harden the schools a bit in addition to reinstating the old gun laws that expired about the time all the mass shooting started becoming so regular. How about a tax on ammo and guns to pay for school metal detectors and locks and training teachers. It a regressive tax so you should appreciate the wealthy not getting the burden.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 16, 2018 12:49 PM
Comment #424425

Except for the “pawns”, the little mouthpieces of the left, you will find that every single democrat politician or Hollywood type that are calling for gun control, have paid armed guards around them at all times. Let’s look at Pelosi for example; while in DC, she is completely surrounded by guards with guns. At her multimillion dollar compound in California, it is surrounded by a wall, she has armed guards roaming the property. The silly blacks and minorities in the inner city democrat bastions, continue to vote for democrats who block their ability to protect themselves, while the politicians are themselves protected by armed guards. This is total hypocrisy. Do you think Chucky Schumer, Jessie Jackson, or Al Sharpton leave their residences without armed guards? The leftist claims that there are no mass shootings in Europe is a complete lie. Bad guys use whatever they can put their hands on to do evil. Are the leftist pawns on WB ignoring the mass deaths in Europe by trucks? Even with the complete gun control of Europe, have the laws been able to prevent terrorists from using guns to kill multiple people? The answer is no.

The real question is; why was it possible for students to bring guns to schools as late as the 1960’s, and yet never was there a school shooting? What was different in those days compared to today?

The second amendment is part of America, it is the God given right every American citizen to arm and protect themselves and their families. This right is preserved in our Bill of Rights. We now have the ability to easily and at reasonable cost, obtain a concealed carry permit in all states except for the most liberal. And even in the most liberal states, CCW’s can be obtained, but the democrats make it as difficult as possible. No matter how much the left wants to turn America into another European satellite, it will never happen. There are literally millions of guns in the homes of Americans. Short of door to door confiscation, which would lead to civil war, Americans will never be disarmed.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 1:01 PM
Comment #424426

And a hats off to Sara a student at the Florida school for her spot on commentary to the current repub thoughts and prayers talking point. In response to Trumps tweet she said “I don’t want your condolences you f**king piece of s**t those were my teachers and friends, I want you to do something.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 16, 2018 1:03 PM
Comment #424427

The reading comprehension level of the right wingers is at a lower grade school level. They can’t even read the words “being necessary to the security of a free state” and understand them.

If Dumpty comes to your area, check your local newspaper for an ad for actors to be paid $50. That would be to go and applaud for the POS. You could buy a nice bottle of liquor for that amount.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 16, 2018 1:11 PM
Comment #424428

Sorry ohrealy, but the 2nd amendment is settled law. Backed up by the SC and there’s not but a handful of politicians who would vote to repeal it.

To any on the left, I listed the changes made in our countries morality since the 60’s. And I blamed it on liberal policies. Can you show us a conservative law that has degraded the morality of America?

The conservatives started revising the 2nd amendment in the 60’??? Our beliefs about the 2nd amendment have been the same ever since it was written. I don’t know what kind of cool aid j2 has been drinking.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 1:31 PM
Comment #424429

How about this: Ban automatic and semi-automatic guns, and then if you miss them, we will send you our thoughts and prayers.

Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 1:36 PM
Comment #424430

J2, your opinions on history, the Second Amendment, and NRA conspiracy theories, do nothing to address the problem. Your dislike of all three is noted, so how about trying to be rational for once?

Fact is, even if you were correct about our history and our Second Amendment, Americans today have the right to own these weapons and leftists are going to have to change the Second Amendment in order to take that right away. Essentially, leftists would be repealing the Second Amendment and replacing it with what you think it should mean.
Your ideas of why it is there, or what it ‘really’ means, are irrelevant.

Like it or not, your idea of redefining the Second Amendment will always be met with resistance by those who support it. You can either work with them to do something, or you can keep screaming and get nothing done.

Posted by: kctim at February 16, 2018 2:09 PM
Comment #424431

phx8, how about we ban idiot people instead?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 16, 2018 2:43 PM
Comment #424432

Why isn’t anyone asking the school nurse what prescriptions Cruz was on during his tenure at school. From k-12 what was he being prescribed, if anything?

Schools don’t give up information about drugs being recommended, prescribed, or administered by school authorities. They must have existing prescriptions on record for individual students. This cumulative information would be of great value to administrators and parents.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 3:08 PM
Comment #424433

As usual, the left jumps to conclusions, calling for gun control before any of the facts come out.

We are now being informed of the twisted history of both Cruz and his demented brother. Police were called to his residence 35 time for domestic abuse, yet, not one Time did the police do anything. Th FBI was notifiedin September 2017, and last month an unidentfied source called the FBI and warned of his possible plans to kill. Once again nothing done. Of all the police run in’s, the FBI, notifications, the fact that he and his brother were on psycho meds, and the comments by neighbors and fellow student, about his potential to be a threat….. NOT ONE WORD ever reached his records. When he went for a background check to buy a rifle…..nothing on the record. See something, say something, but do nothing. The police and the FBI failed to protect those students.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 3:10 PM
Comment #424434

And after all that, none of it would have happened if he did not have a gun.

Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 3:26 PM
Comment #424435

Phx8, maybe then he would have used a car or truck. Don’t forget this guy is from the generation that is eating detergent pods.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at February 16, 2018 3:37 PM
Comment #424436

j2

“biggest myth award for this thread goes to dbs for his oft repeated “The 2nd amendment was written to protect the general citizenry from the government should it become “overbearing”!”


“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803


“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778


A well regulated militia in a time of no standing army means state militias doesn’t it?


“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it funny boy.

Posted by: dbs at February 16, 2018 3:52 PM
Comment #424437

Maybe, had the FBI acted on the info at hand this school shooting would have been prevented.

What about the next school shooting? What are we going to do to prevent the next school shooting? This kid shot 17 kids dead. I’m saying that if there had been an armed force ready to act at/in the school it would have been a very different situation. Maybe two or three would have been killed, maybe none, maybe the shooter would have give up, killed himself. But, I’m sure the casualties would have been way less. This kid had time to fire off 150 rounds and then leave the school unimpeded. Wouldn’t have been that way had there been an armed force there at/around the time of the first shot.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 16, 2018 4:33 PM
Comment #424438

Something for the liberals, if they don’t mind spending a little money. Each school system might purchase robots for say, $100k/ea. The bots would be about 2ft x 2 x 2 with a 12 ga automatic shotgun mounted on top. Could travel the hallways at up to 40 mph. Might have a big honky camera to mask the real camera. Provide 360 deg camera coverage to monitors back at the head shed.

One would think all schools have hallway cameras, they should.

The bot could operate on manual or auto. On auto it would lock onto the target you select, go to it and open fire starting at 20’. Buckshot recommended.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 16, 2018 4:35 PM
Comment #424439


Dang, outright rejection. Well, lemme try again, by the numbers.

J2, good point on protecting elementary/middle schools. I suppose the best option there is to use staff volunteers where sufficient numbers could be found. Not joking, but, I believe most teachers are liberals and it might be impossible to find enough volunteers to form an effective force. Additionally, you’ve got age, physical ability and all that stuff to contend with. Teachers seem best at trying to hide their students in a classroom, closet, and so on …

J2, yes, tt would be cheap to use HS students but it’s not a money issue. It’s a numbers issue. Doesn’t make sense to try to attach a squadron of say, 20 military types to every school in the country. There is no threat to a school UNTIL there is a threat, maybe once in a hundred years. The only people who could respond, effectively, to a threat like that are the students/faculty.

J2, on guns in general. An AR-15 is a long range gun. At close range a pistol may be a better choice than the AR. A 22 cal. will kill you as daid as a 30-06, etc. If my kid wanted to volunteer and with the proper training I would encourage his participation. On leaving school they might place their gun in a school gun locker and pick it up there in the mornings. Locker might be managed by the single law enforcement type or similar. And, no J2, we don’t want the guns locked away during school hours.

J2, I’ll try again on the selection. You know in your jr and sr years there were a few kids who stood out as being mature, exhibiting common sense and all that . .. and who understands kids better than their classmates? So, each class would vote on say, 3 to 5 students that have agreed to serve. Then, the entire jr/sr student body would vote on those that had previously been selected by class vote. I would think 15-20 would be an adequate defense force.

I would think in many schools the jrs/srs on the sports teams would take on the job with pride. They should be supported by the school. Like communicating to students re those who might be serious problems, put up pix on Bboards of expelled students, etc. Like, the kids in this school knew this shooter had been expelled and wasn’t allowed to return. They knew what he looked like, had heard his threats. The cops responding to the shooting knew none of this and the shooter went out of the building and was loose for an hour before they found him. The kids know whats going on in a school.

Weary, totally agree with your 424379. Yeah, I think it was an Alabama elementary school professor who suggested the canned goods assault. And, what sense does it make to hide students behind wallboard walls?

Agree kctim, any suggestions from the left will involve running from the shooter and/or getting rid of all or some guns. One can only imagine where the left would take us if they disarm us. ‘If you don’t support the emperor then you are crazi and must be locked up’, and so on …

WW, you are spot on about creating free fire zones. The ONLY way to stop a shooter is to outgun him. I would have no problem passing a law to allow folks age 18 to be licensed to have a gun. I would have no problem letting these folks carry in the schools.

Right Royal, the who and how many. And, that’s what I apply to the HS’s and high learning estabs.

Come on, Blaine. The solution is not to run and hide from this or any other problem. It’s putting up a show of force. That’s the far left answer. The extreme right answer is for a bunch of father’s to run the shooter to ground and take his body down to half dollar sized pieces of meat. There would only be one school shooting were that the case. But, we have to be somewhat civilized.

This fellow is not a mental case. He is a mere boy from a broken family. His mom wasn’t able to discipline him. In other words, a smart assed kid. That’s what we will find. Not a terrorist. This guy is not smart enough to be a terrorist, doubt if he could spell the word.

So, this would be a special type of license that limits the user to only be licensed to carry when inside their school facility and the school is ‘open for business’. The student force should be tested a couple of times a year on quick recognition of others on the force. Only allow additions at the beginning of the school year. They should respond by going straight to the sound of gunfire. The faculty should respond by getting everybody out and away from the school as quickly as possible.

I’ve no doubt the young people would love to participate in and take a lot of pride in doing ‘a good job’.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 16, 2018 4:37 PM
Comment #424440

If the shooter did not have a gun he would not have fired 150 rounds in seven minutes.

dbs,
You do realize Henry, Mason, and Madison were all slave owners, right? In the South, militias were “slave patrols.” Henry wrote at length about the need for armed militias to put down “insurrections” because there were at least 200 slave uprisings prior to the Civil War, and they scared the crap out of whites. The first draft of the 2nd amendment said “country” instead of “state,” but it was changed to address southern fears of “manumission” and counter abolitionists like Hamilton and Morris. There was no state right more fundamental than slavery, and guns were needed to suppress uprisings. The 2nd and a referral to “states” was needed to induce VA to sign.

Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 4:38 PM
Comment #424441

Listen to this stupid comment:

“And after all that, none of it would have happened if he did not have a gun.”

Posted by: phx8 at February 16, 2018 3:26 PM

Hasn’t the left’s argument always been about background check? So when the evidence is presented that the police and the FBI failed to follow up and get something on the shooters record that would have prevented him from buying a gun….your answer is , background checks no longer matter. He wouldn’t have bought a gun if his background check had been up to date.

Ph, what exactly is your purpose for being on WB? Do you ever use the brain in your head? Your problem used to be called “diarrhea of the mouth”.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 4:42 PM
Comment #424442

“Come on, Blaine. The solution is not to run and hide from this or any other problem. It’s putting up a show of force. That’s the far left answer. The extreme right answer is for a bunch of father’s to run the shooter to ground and take his body down to half dollar sized pieces of meat. There would only be one school shooting were that the case. But, we have to be somewhat civilized.”

I think you misunderstand my comment. I was being facetious with the leftist. I wanted to hear them cry at the loss of tax dollars to a failed government school system.

Posted by: Blaine at February 16, 2018 4:51 PM
Comment #424443

How about personal suggestion boxes that placed in private places that are maintained frequently?

How about parents insisting on controlling the passwords of their child’s social media accounts?

How about actually reading student’s social media product?

I read a story about a teacher fighting bullying with a simple classroom exercise. It was as simple as the teacher having their entire class write down 4 names of their classmates and hand it in. It’s private and it’s done every day.

Without any response from the teacher to these written responses the children begin to take it as routine, but upon study and over time the inclusion or expulsion of names on a list will signal changes in the group. It seems like an interesting path to take because it’s routine nature doesn’t skew the results. The results are skewed by abnormal events.

These common sense attempts to seek new solutions don’t happen on the phone with campaign contributors. They come about by following the ol’ rule, “Necessity is the Mother of Invention.”.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 4:52 PM
Comment #424444

Many thanks to dbs for those great quotes by Americans who shaped our history.

If our Liberal Pals are so intent on new gun laws we wish they would share exactly what those laws would prohibit. We hear from late night comedians how terrible we are because we cherish our constitutional rights. Shame on them.

I suggest that the Democrat Party Platform include very specific planks addressing legislation that will end murder by guns.

How sad it is that our Liberal Pals have become nothing more than “useful idiots”. They shout “gun control” and can’t even explain what that means. It is a political slogan, and nothing more. These idiots con’t even understand the difference between “legal” and “illegal” when it comes to immigration. How then, could we expect them to understand our constitutional rights?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2018 4:54 PM
Comment #424446

dbs presented and Royal applauded a series of quotes providing a rationale for the 2nd Amendment at the time of its enactment. The gist of the argument is that it provided the general citizenry the opportunity to resist tyrannical government.

That argument is consistent with the distrust of the Founding Fathers with standing armies. In fact, they placed in the Constitution a limitation on standing armies which were perceived as the principal instrument of oppression by tyrannical governments (the Army Clause). See, https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/52/army-clause

What I find ironic is that the vast majority of gun rights advocates today don’t in any way actually share that rationale. I would bet my life’s savings that the majority of current 2nd Amendment advocates support a strong standing military and increased funding and arming of police. The exact opposite of what the Founding Fathers wanted. Sure, there are some purists (right wing militias) but most are big supporters of the military. How do you fight against a large military force that you funded?

The truth of the matter is that today’s conservative 2nd Amendment supporters are really militarists. They believe in the power of the sword. They want a large army. They want a large and well armed police force. And they want it used.

The Founding Fathers must be rolling over in their graves.

Posted by: Rich at February 16, 2018 7:00 PM
Comment #424447

Many thanks to our Pal Rich for providing some “real meat” to chew on rather than the usual fluff about gun control.

The link he provided was very interesting and I recommend its reading.

Our Founders were well aware of the dangers of standing armies. And, they knew well that standing armies required money for their sustenance. They were well aware of the dangers presented by foreign powers having large armies and navies so close to our new nation. And, raising an army in times of national peril takes time that may not be available.

What to do?

Had Rich more closely read the article he linked, he would have his answer.

“The “raise and support Armies” clause was the Framers’ solution to the dilemma. The Constitutional Convention accepted the need for a standing army but sought to maintain control by the appropriations power of Congress, which the Founders viewed as the branch of government closest to the people.”

Thanks again Rich.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 16, 2018 7:36 PM
Comment #424448

I disagree with that assessment, Rich. I am no way in favor of a large standing army such as the one we are currently supporting.

I believe in what Jefferson believed, that we should stand clear of other country’s internal affairs and avoid entanglements that could lead to war. I support altering the stance of other governments using trade.

Our military should be stationed on our own borders, not on the boundaries of an empire. Ultimately, in a perfect world, we should be adding another one-hundred or so stars to our flag instead of having the one-hundred or so military bases in countries around the world.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 7:43 PM
Comment #424449

Respect your opinion, Weary. It is logically consistent with what I understand to be the background to the 2nd Amendment, Army Clause and our early distaste for militarism and imperialism.

I still contend, though, that the majority of conservative gun right advocates fail to fully grasp the conflict between support for a large military and the basis for the 2nd Amendment.

Royal, it is clear from the article that the very basis for the 2nd Amendment has clearly eroded over time. We have now a very large standing army. We are not dependent upon citizen militias for protection against external or internal enemies. As a consequence, the idea of a citizen revolt against tyrannical government is a fantasy.

Posted by: Rich at February 16, 2018 8:33 PM
Comment #424450

Hmmm, let’s see, on one hand we have the rights of mass murderers to do as they please, and on the other hand we have a group of teenagers being deprived of their life by a mass murderer. Was the mass murderer acting as a member of the state militia in a manner authorized by the state? What a load of crap.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 16, 2018 10:14 PM
Comment #424451

I’m not sure you can say a majority, Rich, because I don’t know the specifics. I don’t think you do either. I think you have a preconceived notion of what the majority think.

Our need for a 2nd amendment has been replaced in the minds of Americans with a belief a standing army and the military will grant us security. Our security is being provided by the federal government and moved offshore to other countries. While the focus is on areas outside our borders, the security at home suffers. With no militia at home criminals fill the void because they believe they can succeed, or make their point, or simply cause destruction. There is no militia to stop them. The mindset of self preservation and self defense has become a foreign concept to the society at large. There is an expectation that there will always be someone else there to turn to.

We’ve seen this week that there isn’t always someone there to turn to.

When a teacher goes into a classroom thinking today may be the day something dreadful happens in their school, it must be the teacher who decides to bear arms to defend themselves and their charges. Not the school administration. Not the local or state or federal governments. Not even the parents. It is the teacher’s right, an actual honest-to-goodness right, to be armed.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2018 11:14 PM
Comment #424466

Agree WW, that law should be repealed. Still, I believe the better solution is for teachers to protect their class of kids. A small group of armed students would do a much much better job of taking down a shooter.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 17, 2018 10:41 AM
Comment #424467

WW, consider this. A young buck graduates HS at 18, goes into the Army, gets 3 months training using a gun or a tank, goes to the ME and takes on the bad guys.

Why is it that a 17/18 yr old HS student can’t volunteer to take on the bad guys that attack his school?

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 17, 2018 11:25 AM
Comment #424469

The cynical me says there’s a method to this madness. Kennedy was assassinated and the country goes to hell.

Think about it. Since the 60’s there has been more excuses made for violence than there have been solutions made. The violence is the means in the “ends justify the means” philosophy.

Just a Rahm Emmanuel said, “Never let a crisis go to waste.”. How can you waste a crisis if there aren’t any crises to waste? The philosophy that changed our country in the 60’s is not pulling the trigger, it is simply creating the conditions favorable to others who pull the trigger. Having created an environment that excuses and allows violence they now have a reason to propose and implement “solutions”. Those solutions are designed to limit or eliminate our freedoms and undermine our constitution. That is the ends. The end of the American way of life. The end of our prosperity. The end of our freedom.

If we change even one word in the Bill of Rights we will have undermined the entire document. All it takes is an environment where fear and urgency exist in enough minds to justify that one change. Proof of this would be when after that change, the violence subsides. That will be my proof to you. After the Kennedy coup is complete the violence will subside, because those who initiate and perpetrate the coup will point to the end of violence as proof the destruction of our constitution was the right thing to do.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 17, 2018 12:22 PM
Comment #424471
The conservatives started revising the 2nd amendment in the 60’??? Our beliefs about the 2nd amendment have been the same ever since it was written. I don’t know what kind of cool aid j2 has been drinking.

Oh come on Blaine if that were true wouldn’t automatic weapons be legal today? Anyway if you want an interested read on the subject here is a link that backs up what I have said.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 17, 2018 4:30 PM
Comment #424473

J2t2, first off, I didn’t write the words in the above quote.

Secondly, the link you provided means nothing. Is it supposed to be some kind of new age socialist philosophy. MICHAEL WALDMAN Is the author. A democrat hack that worked for the Clinton administration. A self proclaimed expert on the second amendment. And typical of the left, he believes the constitution is an evolving document. Why do you waste our time trying to debate. The concept of debate on WB is to decide the best course for America. But you don’t believe in America. Everything about this country is wrong in your eyes.

Posted by: Blaine at February 17, 2018 5:05 PM
Comment #424474

The wording of SP ruling in the Heller decision mentioned by j2t2.

“District of Columbia v. Heller had a major impact on the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. This decision established that bearing arms is not limited to militia related purposes. The possession of fire arms are, however, subject to regulation (based on safety conditions)”


https://legaldictionary.net/district-columbia-v-heller/

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2018 5:59 PM
Comment #424475

“Our need for a 2nd amendment has been replaced in the minds of Americans with a belief a standing army and the military will grant us security.”

Completely agree with your assessment, Weary. In addition, we have clearly delegated domestic security for better or worse to a large and well armed police force. The significance of that assessment is that it negates the very rationale for the 2nd Amendment.

The Supreme Court in Heller held that the “militia” referenced in the Amendment comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense not simply those formally enrolled in some identifiable militia. “The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

As I stated previously, this amendment needs to be read in the context of the Anti-Federalists’ additional distrust of a large standing army that could be used by the government to suppress the citizens (see debate leading to compromise Army Clause).

Up until the aftermath of WWII, this distrust of a large standing army and rejection of militarism and imperialism was consistent US policy. The US virtually disarmed after major conflicts and maintained only a skeleton army during peace time. But things changed. We accepted the role of world’s policeman after WWII and vastly enlarged our military forces and distributed them throughout the world. President Eisenhower famously warned against the dangers of the growing power of the military industrial complex which would inevitably compromise legislative decision making.

So, here we are 227 years later with a decision of the Supreme Court that the drafters really meant every individual has a right to own and possess a firearm in order to potentially participate in a militia but in a society that has clearly rejected the idea of a citizen’s militia for defense in favor of a huge professional standing military force. In terms of armed resistance to government tyranny, we have negated that possibility by our funding and support of large federal, state and local police forces.

What then is the practical significance of the 2nd Amendment? What is the point if we have deferred our defense to the military? What is the point if we have deferred our domestic protection to the police?

I see very little pragmatic advantage and a lot of detrimental effects. It protects the right of marginally sane people to possess weapons. It protects the right of people to possess very powerful weapons that have extraordinary offensive capability without any additional defensive benefit.

In essence it is a Constitutional right without a legitimate purpose in our society today.


Posted by: Rich at February 17, 2018 6:33 PM
Comment #424476

“In terms of armed resistance to government tyranny, we have negated that possibility by our funding and support of large federal, state and local police forces.”

Since I believe your premise is wrong Rich, I also disagree with your conclusion.

Our Founders warned us against “government tyranny” and thus enshrined our right to protect ourselves from that very government.

Why in the world would anyone believe that the men and women comprising our “federal, state and local police forces” would even recognize or resist government tyranny? If even one/half of these people are liberals, they would support total socialism and the end of capitalism. They are all trained to obey orders.

If the order is given to confiscate guns, would they obey?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2018 6:45 PM
Comment #424477

The definition of the second amendment is supported by the federalist papers. It is a done deal; but the only way the left will ever be able to void it, would be to slowly chip away at the fringes.

Posted by: Blaine at February 17, 2018 6:56 PM
Comment #424478

I think that you miss my point, Royal. By enabling and supporting the expansion and power of the military and police, conservatives render moot the “resistance of government tyranny” meme of gun right advocates. The 2nd Amendment is a bad joke under such circumstances.

Libertarians on this blog (e.g., Rheinhart, Weary) fully recognize this point. Conservatives and Republicans here appear to miss it altogether.

Posted by: Rich at February 17, 2018 7:05 PM
Comment #424479

Our Liberal Pals who wish to deny citizens guns for personal protection should perform a little exercise that might just surprise them.

Telephone your nearest police station or sheriffs office. Ask a senior officer what kind of response time to expect if a 911 call is made announcing an intruder is in your home.

If the answer is five minutes or less you are indeed extremely fortunate.

Then ask yourself, can you protect yourself and family for five minutes with no weapon?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2018 7:10 PM
Comment #424480

Perhaps I do not understand as you suggest Rich. Please explain in terms I will understand.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2018 7:12 PM
Comment #424481

Blaine,

I am not arguing with the holdings of the Supreme Court nor any of the anti-federalist writings in the Federalist papers.

I am simply attempting to point out the irrationality of what I believe are the majority of current conservative gun right advocates: the advocacy of very strong military and police forces at the disposal of the government while at the same time arguing that the 2nd Amendment rights to own and possess, at best, semi-automatic rifles would be a check on a tyrannical government. How absurd!

I think that the concerns of conservatives and Republicans about a tyrannical government would be better served by protecting the ballot box from foreign or internal attempts to compromise our votes.

Posted by: Rich at February 17, 2018 7:23 PM
Comment #424482

OK Rich. Perhaps if you answer my question, I will understand your premise.

Will strong military and police forces protect us from government tyranny?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2018 7:26 PM
Comment #424483
The real question is; why was it possible for students to bring guns to schools as late as the 1960’s, and yet never was there a school shooting? What was different in those days compared to today?

Blaine sorry if I attributed the quote to you and it wasn’t you.

As for your question the answer is well first of all there was school shootings in the 60’s ,50’s, 40;s 30;s and so forth.
I would suggest the difference between those days and know is kids had old shotguns back them today they have semi auto weapons. Hence the increased numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States

Posted by: j2t2 at February 17, 2018 8:05 PM
Comment #424484

Royal,

I don’t understand why you would think that strong government military and police forces will protect us from government tyranny. They are instruments of the government. The only protection that we really have is their duty to disobey an unlawful order. That could be a real sticky wicket as to what is legal or illegal.

Posted by: Rich at February 17, 2018 9:23 PM
Comment #424485

J2, l read through the complete list of shootings, staring back in the early 1800’s and I have to come to the conclusion, you’re either a liar, or you didn’t read your own link. The deaths by shotguns were jus a few. Most of the deaths were by handguns. Secondly, almost all shootings were the result of one person against another. Many were the result of fist fights gone bad. Many more were older siblings or parents who shot the teachers or principals for whipping the younger ones. Some were the result of shootings over girls. But the interesting thing is that none were the result of a psychopath going to school for the purpose of randomly killing students and teachers.

J2, you rack that pea brain of yours trying to figure out how to take away the 2nd amendment, and you fail to see that we are at this point in history because leftist have brought us here. It is leftist policies that have deteriorated the moral fiber of America. And just as it is leftist policies that have turned every democrat controlled city into a killing field, it is democrat policies that have created the lawlessness we see today. Whatever blood is shed lays at the feet of liberals and not NRA members.

Posted by: Blaine at February 17, 2018 10:27 PM
Comment #424486
What then is the practical significance of the 2nd Amendment?
By enabling and supporting the expansion and power of the military and police, conservatives render moot the “resistance of government tyranny” meme of gun right advocates.

Rich, you ignore Eisenhower’s plea to resist the Military Industrial Complex. Eisenhower raised the alarm and Kennedy got assassinated!

I think that the concerns of conservatives and Republicans about a tyrannical government would be better served by protecting the ballot box from foreign or internal attempts to compromise our votes.

Rich, I agree.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 17, 2018 11:53 PM
Comment #424487


Interesting debate re the 2nd amendment, free school zone regs of 90 and 95. These debates have gone on since around WWII.

Time for debate to end and a course of action determined. It seems every situation is covered to give protection to most people. In Jan, Va. repealed a law to now allow guns in places of worship. Law enforcement types can carry in schools.

But, the law officer in the Fl shooting ‘never encountered the shooter’. Understandable. It’s like WW noted. The shooter has to be encountered before or within a few seconds to a minute or two to effectively limit casualties/injuries. The only way to achieve that is to arm SOME teachers/students.

On Feb 15 the Fla Senate took up a bill, SB1236, that would allow school principals to designate people who could carry guns during school hours. Next meeting is on Tuesday. Fla. Judiciary recently approved SB1048 which would allow people to carry guns on the grounds of schools and churches. This bill goes to the full Senate on Thurs.

As I interpret the federal gun free school zone law the states have the authority to over ride the law. State and counties can authorize the issuance of licenses that exempt the licensed individuals from the prohibition. Seems that is what Fl and Va have/are doing.

If that’s correct the federal law really just prohibits unlicensed folks from carrying in schools.

So, it seems the solution to providing security for k12 students is thru state law. I would think all states would follow Florida’s path and authorize teachers to carry in the schools.

Likewise, states have authority to set age limit to carry a gun. In Va. it’s 18. I would like to see Va. allow schools to establish a program whereby some selected students could carry in the schools. Most mature 18 years olds would like to protect themselves, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 12:11 PM
Comment #424488

Gun safety and use classes should be reinstated in schools across the nation. Curiosity gets children killed. If the inquisitive nature of children toward the unknown is replaced with familiarization, many injuries and deaths could be avoided. Training older students could also qualify them to be carriers in schools.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 12:37 PM
Comment #424489

There is a k12 school district in SW Ohio that just approved that school staff can carry concealed weapons, if they are trained and licensed. Likewise a college is southern Florida has just voted to allow professors to carry concealed weapons. The college requires 100 hours of police training, for those teachers wanting it, and at the finish of their training, they are sworn in as special deputies in the local sheriffs department. Israel has for decades faced terrorist threats against their schools and students; and for decades their answer is to arm the teachers. A terrorist might get one or two shots off, but there is enough armed good guys to take them out immediately. One armed guard in a school of 3200 students is not enough protection. We live in an age where bad guys will use anything to kill, and the old saying is, it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun. Sad to say, but that’s life in this world of liberalism. I’m part of a security force of at least 30-40 armed men and women at every service at our church. We have all been instructed by our city police department and have implemented all the safety protocols the suggested. They even told us what type of ammunition to use.

Posted by: Blaine at February 18, 2018 12:49 PM
Comment #424490

We live in an age where gun violence is used as a political ploy to promote gun control. Day after day we see violence on in the news that demonizes firearms. Very little attention is paid to the benefits of gun ownership and conceal carry. This has to change. We cannot have an effective deterrent against gun violence when people are ignorant of the benefits of firearms. The good done with firearms should take precedence over the damage.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 1:04 PM
Comment #424491
J2, l read through the complete list of shootings, staring back in the early 1800’s and I have to come to the conclusion, you’re either a liar, or you didn’t read your own link. The deaths by shotguns were jus a few.

Have you stopped to consider, Blaine, that you could be jus the moron that can’t comprehend what was actually said as you spout this drivel instead of an intelligent argument. I mean thinking back to the 60’s rifle racks and old rifles/shotguns were the norm not handguns in your scenario of kids carrying guns to school without incident back then. How many kids did you know that carried AR -15’s to school?

But the interesting thing is that none were the result of a psychopath going to school for the purpose of randomly killing students and teachers.

While psychopath is up for debate what isn’t is they were angry and hateful and the fact none were carrying semi-auto weapons and killing and injured numbers were much lower except when it was the military killing and injuring students.

J2, you rack that pea brain of yours trying to figure out how to take away the 2nd amendment, and you fail to see that we are at this point in history because leftist have brought us here.

Well look who is lying now Blaine. As I have stated on numerous occasions I do not want the 2nd amendment modified in any way. The revisionist interpretation needs to be done away with and we need to make it harder for people to get AR-15 type weapons than lawn darts. Please don’t go into the tripe about other weapons and whatever talking point the NRA tells you to spout as they are lies.

Blaming “leftist” on this issue is a lie Blaine. It is just wrong a smoke screen to keep conservatives in line, only idiots believe this tripe. Gun deaths have been going on as long as there has been guns. The numbers have increased because the weapons have increased as well. You like to blame it on leftist and psychopaths which is contradictory in and of itself.

Most of these mass murders have gotten their weapons legally Blaine. Most as with this recent Fla. shooter are conservatives, this one being a Trump supporter. Didn’t stop you from lying about it though. This guy was also an NRA trained killer that slipped through the NRA’s classes without being identified as a psycho, so before you try blaming the FBI you should look at those with hands on ownership of the situation.

In fact political extremist such as yourself have more to do with the hate and anger Americans are experiencing today. I mean lets face it Blaine your movement reared it’s head and shortly after the Reagan revolution mass killings became the norm. Hate and anger spread across the land as you guys told one lie after another to get you way.

Which brings us to your ignorant response to the Waldman book. Factual information is dangerous to the conservative movement and you handle it by blaming the messenger, not by correcting anything the messenger has to say. SO before you of all people Blaine call anyone a liar you better get your house in order.

The NRA changed into a political bribery association from a training and educational organization and along with that came the rise in mass killings.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 18, 2018 1:24 PM
Comment #424492

NRA got where it is today because people recognized the assault by the left on the 2nd amendment. You can’t blame the NRA for being the cause. The cause is people thinking they need to disarm people to stop violence. It is the exact opposite. People who are armed stop violence.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 1:46 PM
Comment #424494


So, good to see that we agree and that common sense prevails on WB.

And, it seems some states are stepping up to their responsibilities in protecting the most innocent and most important among us.

Rush Limbaugh was on Fox this morning saying there should be a law to allow CCW in schools. Hopefully, the red states will get over their politics and get such laws put in place.

I posted earlier that 17 and 18 yr olds should be allowed to participate. Also, would make sense to allow the 17 yr olds to participate in the training but defer til they turn 18 to take a roll as an armed defender. If the 17 yr olds were under the supervision of a licensed carrier in their training there would be no new laws required.

In smaller schools, maybe 500 students or less, the teaching staff might well be able to fend off the bad guys. Still, having students defend their school would be a positive thing, create pride in the student, school system, parents, classmates and so on …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 3:23 PM
Comment #424495

“I don’t understand why you would think that strong government military and police forces will protect us from government tyranny.”

That is not what I wrote or believe, Rich. We need personal weapons to protect us.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 18, 2018 3:46 PM
Comment #424496

Weary what “assault” on the 2nd amendment? This “assault” is mostly the making of the NRA and it’s propagandist. Your “Uncle Duke” claim that armed people stop violence has only instigated a civilian arms race that has led to the militarization of the police in this country.

I took this position in several recent threads after mass killings in the last several years, getting my inspiration from Doonesbury’s Uncle Duke. I called for the mandatory arming of all Americans because so many guns are out there and so many ill trained unqualified conservatives demanding more and more high powered weapons on the streets, much as you now. But since when has doubling down on crazy been the answer to a problem?

The more we are armed, it seems the more violence we have, the more deaths and mass killings. Take the Vegas killings as an example no one that was armed was able to return fir all while the body count piled up. Just think if the shooter didn’t have access to so many weapons and so much ammunition, he could have thrown knives or screwdrivers or hammers all day and not killed or maimed so many people.


Sure in the schools, provided teachers are armed and trained and not caught unawares, they could do more than be cannon fodder for the shooters. Could they also protect the kids as currently trained and went on the hunt for the shooter? Then can they get out of the school alive after the shooter is down or has left the building? With the police out there treating everyone as criminals as they did in the students perp walk we saw at this latest mass murder, Can you imagine what would happen to the teacher or student that had a weapon when they walked out? Nope with shoot first police force training the teachers and/or student militia are sitting ducks for the police.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 18, 2018 3:51 PM
Comment #424497

””…We can have safer guns, and safer bullets.”

- Joycelyn Elders (Surgeon General under Bill Clinton)

“Just think if the shooter didn’t have access to so many weapons and so much ammunition…”

Hmmm…not safer guns or bullets, but fewer of them. Way to go j2t2.

Let’s suppose we have 1,000 armed people and one of them is a psychopath. We pass a law that people can own only two guns and 100 bullets. Are we safer from the psychopath?

“Can you imagine what would happen to the teacher or student that had a weapon when they walked out?”

j2t2, only a moron, or a Liberal would do that. OH, wait, I am wrong. A Liberal would never carry a weapon to protect anyone.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 18, 2018 4:16 PM
Comment #424499

So all you arm the student types I ask you this. The Fla. shooter was NRA trained and a junior reserve officer at his school prior to this mass killing. It raises several questions, the first being in Roy’s scenario could this guy have been one of the students allowed to carry and be trained to go after shooters?

Another question is how do NRA members feel about training mass killers? That is what seems to have happened here. They did nothing to stop him at any stage of the run up to the mass murder spree. What does this say about the good guy with the gun theory that is big on the NRA talking points list right now.

IN the mid eighties a former town marshal and his wife took a school hostage! With a bomb that ultimately went off and injured 70 some people. How exactly do you pick out who the good guy is anymore?

What we do know is that unfortunately the police are not the answer. They seldom get to or into a school that has an active shooting going on. They just search for the shooter who has left eh building and pick up the pieces after the fact. How would you like to be the teacher or student walking around armed at that time?

Evidently Uber drivers are able to tell the good guys from the bad guys as it was an Uber driver that dropped the shooter off at the school with backpacks and gym bags. So how does anyone else know to sound the alarm?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 18, 2018 4:36 PM
Comment #424500

j2, read my prev post abt students selecting the defenders. Each jr/sr class votes for a few. Then the jr/sr body votes on who they like and get the number down to that required. Then the teaching staff might get a vote on the final cut.

How this kid got into the jrotc protgram is … mind boggling. But, we know, there are stupid, stupid being way beyond ignorant, all around us. I’ve met plenty of teachers who are certified, not ignorant but stupid.

Plenty of folks who go thru college, flooded with information but can’t make a rational decision.

You deal with them by trying to keep them out of leadership positions to the extent you can.

Plenty of 17/18 yr old students who are way more mature than their teacher, unfortunately.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 5:09 PM
Comment #424501

j2t2, your right to say you don’t know who the bad guys are. You are wrong to treat all people like they are the bad guys because of it.

Your article stated that over 17 schools in Florida receive grant money from the NRA. By your logic we can expect 16 more school shootings, right? Of the 6500 students who have benefited from NRA grant money, by your logic, 6500 more shootings are lined up in the future. Do you see why your approach won’t work? Vilifying the NRA is nothing but propaganda and the left should start to realize people see right through your propaganda and consider it just that, propaganda. It solves nothing to create another villain. All you do is shift blame from the real villain.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 5:10 PM
Comment #424502

I don’t understand why he was allowed to participate in extra curricular activities when he was in trouble so much. JROTC should be a luxury that is earned, just like sports or other non-manditory programs. The only reason I can think of as to why he was allowed to participate in the shooting competition is that he would sue the school if he wasn’t included.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 5:15 PM
Comment #424503

The Communist News Network is saying that Trump plans to visit the school and ‘listen to the students’. Dollar to a doughnut he brings up concealed weapons in school.

Truth is probably closer to the notion that staff thought involving the youngster in jrotc would provide some discipline training in his life, and that’s all right.

But, I don’t believe his jr/sr classmates would have voted for him to be a defender. I don’t believe the jr/sr body would have voted for him to be a defender. I don’t believe the staff would have voted for him to be a defender, and so on …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 5:25 PM
Comment #424504

Maybe take it a step further. Filter students volunteering to be defenders.

A student can’t stand for vote if:

student doesn’t have parents permission
student has had disciplinary issues from the 9th grade
student has been approached by law enforcement
student is not a member of a mainstream church
and so on …

It ain’t rokit schience, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 5:41 PM
Comment #424515

I will say one last thing before moving on; j2t2 is a liar when he says he supports the second amendment. He’s a leftist, and ALL leftist want to do away with the second amendment. If they say otherwise, they lie. Their talk is double speak. We have argued these points until we’re blue in the face. The leftist like j2t2 and phx8 cannot comprendo, they don’t have the brain capacity. They say do away with assault weapons, but an AR 15 is not an assault weapon. It’s nothing but a semiautomatic rifle with cosmetics. Nothing more and nothing less. An assault rifle is capable of full auto fire.

Doing away with assault weapons to a leftist, means doing away with every semi-auto weapon made; whether it’s a pistol, rifle, or shotgun. Which takes about 75% of the weapons in America away from their owners. This is what leftist want, then they go after pump guns, lever actions, revolvers. It never ends with the left, they are never satisfied. That is, not until all of humanity is made in the image of Stalin.

Posted by: Blaine at February 18, 2018 8:12 PM
Comment #424519

Blaine, all types of rifles count for 3% of homicides. More people are stabbed to death than killed by guns. pistols account for the largest number of deaths by gun.

But, we understand that it is not abt guns … it is abt controlling the people who use them.

Put guns in the classroom and end school shootings.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 18, 2018 8:45 PM
Comment #424521
We live in an age where gun violence is used as a political ploy to promote gun control.

Weary are you really so morally bankrupt you believe this? The far right has led you astray my friend.

I will say one last thing before moving on…
Blaine you are wrong just like the other 26 amendments to the Constitution I support the 2nd amendment. Your lies should be taken for what they are worth, nothing. You are unable to argue against my comments so you troll with lies while attacking the messenger.


Posted by: j2t2 at February 18, 2018 8:58 PM
Comment #424523

Morally bankrupt? How about F… You, j2t2! Is that all you got?

I remember the left in the 70’s complaining and actually fighting in court that murderers needed special consideration because of the society they grew up in. The environment they were talking about was Democratic controlled inner cities. The party you support created that environment and then used the product of that creation as an excuse to shift responsibility. I can’t believe the environment we live in today is an accident.

Remember, j2t2, it’s your side that uses the phrase “The ends justify the means.”. If you ask me, supporting a party that openly believes that philosophy is morally bankrupt.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 10:10 PM
Comment #424524

Your party, j2t2, can’t wait till the bodies are cold before you start with your gun control mantra. That’s using violence for political purposes and it’s blatantly obvious. Your problem is you are unwilling to see it. It’s called ignorance.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2018 10:12 PM
Comment #424546
Morally bankrupt? How about F… You, j2t2! Is that all you got?

Seems I hit the nail on the head judging by the denial in your reaction Weary.


So proposing solution to the mass murder is the same as lying about the FBI or falsely accusing others of politicizing the school shootings!

Remember, j2t2, it’s your side that uses the phrase “The ends justify the means.”

Umm… Weary… when “we” use that phrase we are referring to you guys, you do know that….right? You know like when we are discussing voter suppression, gerrymandering and such.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 19, 2018 10:54 AM
Comment #424547

I guess conservatives cannot distinguish between Trump tweeting negative comments about the FBI, you know bad job on not being thought police and the FBI could have been focusing on school shootings in stead of the Russian interference in the 2016 election, and politicians responding with something other than condolences for a change. It’s pretty simple guys those that lost family members and friends at the Parkland mass murder were out the past few days doing the same thing you accuse dems of doing, demanding our elected representatives give the country effective gun control laws. Yep instead of being at home grieving they took their grief to the streets and demanded the NRA stop bribing elected officials each time their is a mass murder and fix the problem.

The difference is this, your stuff is bogus mean spirited lies while the families of those killed and the dems who hear their grief are heartfelt responses to the problem. This isn’t some political ploy awaiting a crisis lord knows there have been enough of those.

Your pathetic attempts to portray these heartfelt responses as a political ploy is heartless and you guys really should be ashamed of yourselves. When do you stop with the echo chamber BS you swill each and every day and think for yourselves? Accusing these people and their elected representatives of using the death of their family members and friends for political gains is as cruel and mean spirited as a body can get. A pox on your house.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 19, 2018 11:26 AM
Comment #424548

While you’re on your high horse, j2t2, look around and see if you can deny Democratics used gerrymandering to get people elected?

Wasn’t it a staple in Democratic circles to suppress the black vote in the south?

http://www.tysknews.com/Articles/dnc_corruption.htm

Alinsky’s radicals found a perfect vehicle for their destruction of the American system and more particularly for taking and maintaining power. That instrument was the Democratic Party.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 19, 2018 11:34 AM
Comment #424549
Your pathetic attempts to portray these heartfelt responses as a political ploy is heartless and you guys really should be ashamed of yourselves.

Deflect much, j2t2?

When will you learn, j2t2? When will you learn that getting your feelings hurt isn’t a basis for an argument. It’s deflection.

The truth isn’t negated because someone’s feelings are hurt. Because someone’s feelings are hurt doesn’t mean there must be more laws. Grow some skin, j2t2.

People in the streets calling for gun confiscation 1 hour after the shooting stops isn’t compassion or grief, it’s politics. Shame on you, j2t2.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 19, 2018 11:40 AM
Comment #424554

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/256477-day-school-shooting-senate-panel-sets-hearing-gun-bill

Be interesting to see what Florida reps do with this bill. You would think the msm would be talking about this bill, put it at the forefront of the debate. Hell no, they are all ranting about taking guns away from …

The shooter had 9 rifles and the foster parents bought a gun safe for them. I disagree with that decision but it’s irrevelant in that the shooter could have got a gun to carry out the shooting.

There have been a few talking heads on FOX proposing putting armed defenders in school either by adding more police or using teachers. That is somewhat better than nothing.

It’s just such a good political issue for the dim’s. Just like the immigration thing. They need people who feel like they are being threatened, that the cops are coming for them or that their kids will be caught in a mass shooting. Cynical of them but so true.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 19, 2018 12:03 PM
Comment #424555

It was the Democratic party that killed this hero trying to save children.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/hero_aaron_feis_the_disarmed_school_guard.html

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990

Introduced in the Senate as S.3266 by Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-DE) on October 27, 1990
Passed the Senate on October 27, 1990 (passed voice vote)
Passed the House of Representatives on October 27, 1990 (313-1, Roll call vote 534, via Clerk.House.gov)
Signed into law by President George H.W. Bush on November 29, 1990

January 3, 1989 – January 3, 1991
Senate President George H. W. Bush (R)[1]
until January 20, 1989
Dan Quayle (R)
from January 20, 1989
Senate Pres. pro tem Robert Byrd (D)
House Speaker Jim Wright (D)
until June 6, 1989
Tom Foley (D)
from June 6, 1989
Members 100 senators
435 representatives
5 non-voting delegates
Senate Majority Democratic
House Majority Democratic


Before you leftist socialist Democratics blame Bush, face reality and realize that Congress writes the laws.

If this law was so great, why isn’t it working.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 19, 2018 12:18 PM
Comment #424556

You’re right, j2t2. Democratics don’t follow a philosophy of the ends justifying the means. They follow “who cares about the ends when we feel so good about the means.”.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 19, 2018 12:20 PM
Comment #424557
Deflect much, j2t2?

Not nearly as much as you do Weary. I mean Alinsky’s radicals! The truth isn’t negated because someone’s feelings are hurt!

FFS Weary it was a mass murder not someone’s feeling hurt have you no sense of proportion? Why would you say something so moronic?

You haven’t spoken a truth Weary so what exactly are you trying to negate the truths spoken by the families of the dead kids?

After 17 kids are killed a call for gun control is political only in the sense that it will be the politicians that after doing nothing each previous time they must respond to the growing demand for sensible gun control laws with something other than thoughts and prayers. It isn’t about hurt feelings Weary it is about senseless deaths and the ongoing shootings and bribed politicians protecting the NRA.

Overtly political is the shaming of the FBI for not being thought police and for the Russian investigation. Overtly political is the NRA sending money to the repubs in Congress.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 19, 2018 12:43 PM
Comment #424559

They have no recourse, j2t2. They have no power.

Politicians put them at risk by passing feel good laws that do only that. Make politicians and victims feel good.

Democratics had their chance. They blew it. It’s as plain as the egg on your face, j2t2. Democratics passed feel good laws that created Gun Free Zones and the murderers flock to them to kill people. Now you want to take guns away from the very people who would stop murderers in their tracks.

It makes no sense. You know what the definition of insanity is. Maybe we should take the guns away from the politicians who write these useless and counter productive laws. They’re not useless. They make Democratics feel good about themselves.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 19, 2018 1:11 PM
Comment #424587

http://news.wjct.org/post/florida-senate-panel-take-school-guns-proposal

Some 22 school systems are considering laws that would allow armed defenders in schools.

Hopefully, commonsense will prevail. Elected officials have left the children unprotected.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 20, 2018 1:30 PM
Comment #424595
Democratics had their chance. They blew it. It’s as plain as the egg on your face, j2t2.>/blockquote>

So using your logic one chance one law to solve a complex problem puts the egg on your face Weary, that is an embarrassing comment for anyone with the least bit of intelligence to make. Your guys tried to repeal the ACA over 40 times after all.

Democratics passed feel good laws that created Gun Free Zones and the murderers flock to them to kill people.

While I agree the law is rather ineffective against the mass murderer intent on killing others and himself who is to say how many times some young kid lost his senses for a bit and didn’;t have a weapon to act out with? If you actually look at facts Weary it seems younger kids going to the school take out their anger at the schools. Older guys certainly don’t flock to the schools shooting people up. Your claim is exaggerated, what a surprise.

Now you want to take guns away from the very people who would stop murderers in their tracks.

Once again instead of being able to respond to an intelligent comment you have forced me to respond to gibberish Weary. This tired old NRA talking point only works on the rabid conspiracy theorist Weary.

I do not want to take away weapons from those who respond to the school attacks. I would prefer to take them away from those that chose to use them for killing young kids.

First of all a ban on assault rifles would only take away assault rifles for starters and then only from those who aren’t mentally and physically qualified to have access to such a deadly weapon on a whim. Kinda like you guys and abortion. Anyone wanting to possess an assault rifle could go through any of a long list of things a women goes through to have an abortion. Like longer waiting times, counseling, mental health testing and required training classes at a facility that has to meet rigid standards.

Secondly do you really want thousands of kids, teachers professors administrators and college age students walking around a college or school with AR-15’s? This good guy with a gun theory is faulty thinking Weary.

Wanna know why? Ask yourself this how many cops killed, yes trained cops, in the past decade have not been armed as the lost their lives to a bullet.

Roy there has to be at least 15 states or so that already has this armed defenders in schools. Colorado for one does but it is teachers and administrators not students. Of course some schools do this and some don’t which should keep the killers from flocking to schools in those estates.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 20, 2018 6:56 PM
Comment #424596

Bounced the idea of permitting students to protect themselves off some guys at an auto service center today. They liked the idea. So, I’m working on a paper that I will post on some boards.

You won’t believe this but this evening I was watching ABC and NBC to keep up with what the enemy was doing. NBC said something like … Russia didn’t wait long to continue their attack on … . within a few days russian bots were putting out information that people should consider allowing people to carry guns in schools …. this in their effort to divide the public on this issue … .

I swear I heard this and it was close to the above.

So, NBC is declaring me as a russian bot. I like that …

I guess its time since I have been declaring ABC/CBS/msm and the Communist News Network Communist bastards for nigh a year now. And the WaPo and so on … .

j2, I guess you were right all along. Well, I don’t mind working with the commies to the extent it serves my purpose.

Down with the MSM/dims/establishment …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 20, 2018 7:45 PM
Comment #424597

Roy, welcome to “Smiley’s People”. I am know by the handle; “Poker Player”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 20, 2018 7:50 PM
Comment #424598
First of all a ban on assault rifles would only take away assault rifles for starters and then only from those who aren’t mentally and physically qualified to have access to such a deadly weapon on a whim.

The part that frightens me the most in this comment is;

First of all..
Posted by: Weary Willie at February 20, 2018 8:31 PM
Comment #424599

dunno … help me out Royal

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 20, 2018 8:46 PM
Comment #424600

Ain’t much on fiction, Royal

Watching Hannity every night is like peeling layers off an onion. Today, questions are being asked of the Obama admin.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 20, 2018 10:22 PM
Comment #424619

Weary, Of course the paranoid think because I numbered my ideas it is a conspiracy to get rid of all guns. Instead of this nonsense lets continue to debug your feel good law theory. First of all does Trump allow guns at Mir-Largo and have killers been flocking to it? Second does the White House allow open carry by anybody and everybody? Has it been the scene of a mass killing with killers flocking to it? Do shooters flock to these hot spots because they know there is no weapons on site?

Roy I swear if you aren’t writing for the Onion and are serious with your comments you could be the next crazy to take out his rage on the public using your second amendment rights. Can you ask a friend nearby to grab your guns and ammo for a while? Just until you get checked out by a professional. It’s in your best interest. You have changed so much in the past year and one half. It may be due to deciding to be a comedian, hopefully, or you have become mentally ill. Ask someone for some help Roy.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 21, 2018 12:05 PM
Comment #424621

It’s not Roy who has changed and who is consumed by hate for those they disagree with.
He is not the one who is unable to justify the points he makes and has to run around shouting ‘nazi’ ‘racist’ ‘NRA’ and ‘Russia’ BS to deflect from the topic being discussed.
He is not the one willing to rip this country apart in the name of BS political correctness, social justice nonsense, and government freebies.

Keep doing what you do, Roy. Some of us are still able to discuss things like adults.

Posted by: kctim at February 21, 2018 1:01 PM
Comment #424623

Right kctim. Maybe these young folks protesting the shooting will learn thru their effort that people kill people, not guns. Some of them might want to sign up to carry in schools and protect their fellow students.

Politicians have sure dragged their feet on carry in schools and they are responsible for school shootings, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 21, 2018 3:37 PM
Comment #424624

Listened to President Trump’s meeting on the issue of school shootings. Not a useful meeting as to solutions but it points out the emotion and desire of the public to try and put an end to school shootings.

Some wanted to nix the AR15. Some wanted attention given to young people with mental problems. Some wanted to improve the physical plant, metal detectors, better doors, only one egress point. And, some recommended teachers, retired mil/pol, or hired specialists patrol the school in some number.

Most agreed that the teachers should not be burdened with confronting a shooter. I agree.

It was noted that a shooting generally takes 1-3 minutes and 5-8 minutes for police to respond. How true.

So, the President is going to meet with the 50 governors and ‘fix it’.

Don’t know how it can be fixed. I still believe the best solution is to let 18 yr old students participate in the defense of their classmates by being allowed to carry a gun in the school, proper training and all that …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 21, 2018 5:45 PM
Comment #424630

j2t2, do you actually think Mar-A-Largo has no security? Do you actually think terrorists stay from there because it isn’t worth it, or something? Really? You actually tried to use what you said as an argument?

Let’s count, also, how many times nuts have shot up the White House, or jumped the fence, or jumped the fence and went waltzing around the White House. Who stopped them, j2t2, good intentions?

The more responsible weapons carriers in any given place is better than obvious targets created by advertising Gun Free Zones. That was the most ridiculous and feelgood bungle of the 20th century.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 21, 2018 7:08 PM
Comment #424631
It’s not Roy who has changed and who is consumed by hate for those they disagree with.

Of course it isn’t kctim, it is the same ol’ Roy , whatever you say. Enabling Roy seems to be your intent, are you egging him on hoping he will act out in violence kctim?

He is not the one who is unable to justify the points he makes and has to run around shouting ‘nazi’ ‘racist’ ‘NRA’ and ‘Russia’ BS to deflect from the topic being discussed.

When is the last time a conservative here on WB has “justified the points he makes”? Jesus kctim really. BTW you are ranting now, of course calling someone commies or socialist or the real racist is different..right?


He is not the one willing to rip this country apart in the name of BS political correctness, social justice nonsense, and government freebies.

Sure he is kctim. And it is all about the false arguments of political correctness and while we are on it look at you getting all butt hurt over Nazi, racist NRA and Russia and such such thin skin for someone so anti PC. Where you go wrong is thinking social justice is nonsense kctim, thinking only certain people have god given rights. Zeig Heil to that huh?

Keep doing what you do, Roy. Some of us are still able to discuss things like adults.

As long as the conversation is one sided… right?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 21, 2018 7:14 PM
Comment #424636

The conversations are one sided, j2t2. You never listen.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 21, 2018 10:46 PM
Comment #424645

J2, the only difference in Roy is that he seems to believe that there is now a President who is trying to do something about the ‘corpocracy’ that he always spoke about before.

His idea here is in response to a problem that has been around for a long long time and the constant cries of ‘it’s time to talk about it.’

“When is the last time a conservative here on WB has “justified the points he makes”?”

I can justify my points any time you want, J2. In fact, there have been MANY times when I have asked you to prove otherwise, which you never do. He11, you can’t even justify your own points, so I don’t know why I expect you to be able to counter mine.

“while we are on it look at you getting all butt hurt over Nazi, racist NRA and Russia and such such thin skin for someone so anti PC.”

Butt hurt? Na. I know it’s a last resort you guys use when facts don’t support your opinion.
Just bored with the lies and constant deflection.

“Where you go wrong is thinking social justice is nonsense kctim, thinking only certain people have god given rights.”

No, where I supposedly ‘go wrong’ is my belief that government should treat all Americans equally, not be used to provide special treatment to some groups in order to create desired outcomes.

“As long as the conversation is one sided… right?”

LOL! Weary hit it dead on, didn’t he: “You never listen.”
I have disagreed with Roy numerous times, J2. He11, I even disagreed with him on this arming students topic.
The difference is that he and I are able to be adults and have civil discussions over our disagreements.

Posted by: kctim at February 22, 2018 9:50 AM
Comment #424651

President Trump praised the Fl gov, county sheriff and school officials. Why, Ib don’t know.

Red flags had gone up from the time the shooter was 11 years old.

The police dept had encountered the shooter some 39 recorded times.

The FBI failed miserably.

The shooter lived with a family shortly after his mother died. They called the cops a number of times about the shooter threatening with a gun.

Praise, my ass. These officials are directly responsible for the incident. Students should sue the hell out of them. They should give up their gov’t positions and beg God for forgiveness.

The school surveillance video monitored by the police was delayed by 20 minutes from real time. Police watched as the shooter laid down his gun and started to leave the area. In real time the shooter had already left the school and was eating a McDonalds.

Days out and no one has a clear understanding where the SRO was at the time of the shooting. It is clear that he did not encounter the shooter. That was left to the unarmed ball coach.

Broward Co. has established a policy of allowing police to carry rifles on school grounds during normal patrolling. Also, double the number of SRO’s.

NRA sez its not about a safety issue, its about a political issue. President Trump and others are recommending some teachers be trained to serve as armed defenders in schools.

On Tues Fl will broach a wide ranging school safety policy to include having school marshalls. Some schools are already using teachers for that purpose. Some school systems are getting push back from teacher and worker unions.

You can tell Trump and others were initially tepid about broaching guns in schools. The President said from the gitgo that he would offer big ideas in ‘making America great again’. Mr. President, how about proposing a policy that would allow 18 year olds to carry in schools to protect their classmates. IMO, young folks would jump at the opportunity to be a part of the solution, create a feeling of camaraderie among them, and so on …

Teachers aren’t in the schools in number for certain activities, after hours classes/sports and so on … Students are.

Otherwise, we have the Communist News Network/MSM/dimocrat socialists we deserve …

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Comment #425333

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