Third Party & Independents Archives

​The Memos The Probes The Leaks The Tweets - Situation Critical?

Do you like Venn Diagrams? Draw three intersecting circles:

Circle 1: Legal/Criminal also known as Who Lied?
Circle 2: Intelligence/National Security also known as Who Spied?
Circle 3: Political/Impeachement/Censure/25th Amendment etc. also known as Who suffers consequences for this?
Now make a short list with a few items. Say:

House Intel Committee releases Memo
President gives State of Union Address
Opposition and perhaps the FBI feeds the Obstruction of Justice Story
Over the next few days and weeks, a vital reassessment or perhaps a testing of the separation of powers explicit in America's governing strucutre - that would be the consitution and it's various and sundry amendments - that has been taking place, will reach a critical stage.

We think of it as the Russia story, and the deep divisions it has produced are fed by the constant leaks and tweets that spin out from it's whirling vortex on a daily basis. But underneath all the details - many still unknown because of legal or national security or political concerns - there is something more important going on. The underlying question is:

How will America's constitution and it's separation of powers ultimately resolve this mess?

Espionage was certainly present in the late 1700's when the Founding Fathers put together America's governing structure. And perhaps all the technological innovation that has transformed and is transforming communications is merely a detail against the wisdom of the constitution they forged. But those 3 intersecting circles make the whole process of the various Russia probes a possibly intractable problem. In other words, only suboptimal outcomes may be possible at this point.

The FBI and the DOJ may very well emerge with a badly tarnished reputation for at least half the population, even by some who oppose Trump. While being seen as a noble part of the "Resistance by the other side. And yes, some intelligence operations will likely be - or already have been - compromised.

The President may emerge as vindicated by his base. But almost surely will be seen as beholden - somehow, anyhow - to dark forces manipulated by the Kremlin by those who oppose his presidency. Mountains of circumstantial evidence pointing to collusion will be proclaimed by this latter group. A Deep State engaged in a soft coup against the man they elected witll be seen by those who support Trump and perhaps even by some that are not a part of the Resistance, but at the same time are not overt Trump supporters.

And finally, the vital difference in process and outcome between a criminal investigation and a counter-intelligence investigation has to be kept in mind. Obstruction of justice is a criminal charge, and a serious one. Colluding with foreign agents is a political charge and a serious one, needless to say. A counter-intelligence probe does not deliver criminal charges, and may withhold information so as not to compromise intel sources and methods and endanger both people and programs. An obstruction of justice charge must reveal the underlying reasons for the charge and is settled in either a criminal court, or in Congress through impeachment proceedings, or motions to censure.

For these three areas of criminal, intel, and political spheres to coexist and reach some sort of solution to the question of Russian interference in America's elections and political system, you need a certain amount of faith in both the institutions concerned (Congress, DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA and other intel agencies, the State Department and other executive agencies or departments and of course the White House itself) and in the people running those institutions.

Because nowadays there is little to no faith in the other side's motives, this becomes a near impossible task. No resolution of the various Russia probes will satisfy the country at large, or perhaps even satisfy any of the various factions. But we have no choice but to grind through the conflicting views and reach some sort of judgement. And having reached that judgement on the Russia probes, then devise some sort of remedy. That there will be multiple judgements resulting from this, makes any remedy seem a near impossible goal at this point.

In conclusion, it seems that special counsels or prosecutors should be unleashed as seldom as possible and not by an Acting AG who feels pressured by opposition cries to do something, NOW, as Rod Rosenstein surely felt last May. While nothing is sure, it seems very likely that Mueller will continue his investigation, as will the various House and Senate Committes. They will finally wrap up business and issue reports. And Congress will perhaps act in some form.

And we will be arguing about those reports and their consequences for decades to come.

Posted by AllardK at January 30, 2018 9:10 PM
Comments
Comment #423917

The most that will probably happen is that some people resign with their cushy pensions and healthcare, and go on to otwher cushy jobs or cushy lobbyist jobs (probably more lucrative).

Posted by: d.a.n at January 31, 2018 9:20 AM
Comment #423919

This entire investigation into any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia is certainly politically inspired. When the last false accusation is made by the last “fake media” standing, it will end.

No political traction = no gain for the democrats = no further interest.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 31, 2018 3:43 PM
Comment #423920

As President Trump, and the achievements of him and congress, become more recognized, his support and popularity will increase substantially. His SOTU speech last night garnered a 43% approval among Democrats as polled by CBS.

When his approval rating reaches, and exceeds, 50%, the divisions will diminish and Americans will begin to come together.

It is once again becoming acceptable to praise America, out loud, and in public places. We now have a president who doesn’t apologize for our great nation, but actually proclaims ever more achievements to come in economic prosperity and social justice for our citizens.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 31, 2018 3:50 PM
Comment #423922

“As President Trump, and the achievements of him and congress, become more recognized, his support and popularity will increase substantially.”

No. It will not. Trump is a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, and a xenophobe. His supporters might be willing to overlook it, but the rest of the country will never, ever give that a pass. We are a good people. Trump and his supporters are not.

“It is once again becoming acceptable to praise America, out loud, and in public places.”

That was always true. Praising Trump, however, will go very poorly for anyone stupid enough to publicly praise a crook, traitor, and racist.

Trump was BOOED and HISSED at Devos by international reporters when he attacked the free press by calling them “fake news.” His approval ratings are in the gutter- 37% at home, and MUCH lower abroad (except for Russia).

Posted by: phx8 at January 31, 2018 5:52 PM
Comment #423923

phx8 takes issue with my statement that President Trump’s support and popularity will increase substantially from recent congressional legislation affecting the economy, middle-class taxes, and increasing job availability; and his welcome calls for unity in his SOTU speech.

He can point to nothing but his usual vindictive allegations to support his view.

I point to the president’s speech approval rating and rising polling numbers.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 31, 2018 6:05 PM
Comment #423924

A very interesting development that has not received that much attention just occurred. Trump and the GOP undermined Obamacare so much that the premiums will increase a great deal this fall. What is interesting is that the free market responded by creating a socialist one-payer health care system. Amazon, JP Morgan/Chase, and Berkshire Hathaway are forming a health care system at cost for 1.1 million employees. It eliminates health care insurers and their profit motive. This will almost certainly spread to other large corporations because, very simply, it is cost effective. I always figured we would follow the rest of the world and eventually create a single payer/universal health care system. I just never imagined it would initially come through a pool of corporations.

Posted by: phx8 at January 31, 2018 6:28 PM
Comment #423925
phx8 wrote: No. It will not. Trump is a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, and a xenophobe. His supporters might be willing to overlook it, but the rest of the country will never, ever give that a pass. We are a good people. Trump and his supporters are not.
That’s fine. It’s supposedly a free conntry.

However, it appears that more and more independent voters are beginning to support Trump and his policies (after all, a lot of independents voted for Trump).
That leaves only the majority of democrats who prefer to continue to hate Trump , and obstruct things that even Democrats typically support.
Most people are more persuaded by good policies and results for the nation, than their hate for Trump.
Most people recognize that even people who have done bad things can also do good things.
Most people want the borders secured, but most democraps want open borders and think illegal immigrants should be able to vote (based on a Rasmussen poll).

Most voters like these results:

  • Supreme court (Neil Gorsuch) and federal court appointments;
  • Lowering corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% (i.e. closer to the global average of about 20%), which is bringing some jobs back to the U.S.;
  • The push to secure the borders, and enforce existing immigration laws;
  • Tax cuts for most workers;
  • Highlighting the dishonesty of the Main Stream Media (mostly left leaning);
  • Unemployment has continued to fall; jobs are coming back to the U.S.;
  • roll-back and restrictions on many unnecessary regulations;
  • improved security via travel bans from nations with terrorists;
  • rejecting the Trans-Pacific partnership; working for FAIR TRADE; other countries put high tarrifs on our exports to other countries (that’s not fair trade);
  • roll-back on many of Obama’s effed-up policies; roll-back on the individual Obamacare mandate;
  • illegal immigration is down 67% !
  • the manufacturing index is up to a 33 year high;
  • the markets are up, because their is a new optimism, because of common-sense policies, and less red-tape and nonsensical regulations;
  • NATO announced Allied spending is up $10 Billion because of Donald Trump;
  • helped pass more legislation in less time than most presidents in U.S. history;
  • rebuilding the military;
  • working to cut funding from sanctuary cities and states;
  • and, the rapid decimation of I.S.I.S. ;

I didn’t vote for Trump or Hillary, but I can be objective enough to see good things have happened in one year, and am hopeful that the progress continues.
IF Trump has commited crimes, then the proof should be made known to all, and he should be held accountable.
IF Mueller and his investigation continues to go on and on and on, it is going to look pretty bad for democrats, who bet it all on so-called Russian collusion.
Also, since the FBI wire-tapped Trumps campaign office(s), IF there was collusion, then they ought to have that proof, eh?

Regarding non-profit health insurance, I always thought that was a good approach.
However, who do you think would be more efficent:
(a)non-profit health insurance managed by the federal government?
(b)non-profit health insurance managed by corporations?
(c)for-profit health insurance managed by corporations?
Which of the three above do you think would provide the best coverage for the least cost?
Well, it is safe to say that (a) would come in dead last.

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at January 31, 2018 6:35 PM
Comment #423926

Non-profit insurance provided by the government would obviously be the best approach. We all need coverage regardless of whether we are employed. Medicare has proven to be an efficient system, much fore efficient that the private market. The easy fix would be a Medicare-for-all approach, extended by tranches to younger and younger age groups.

I never understood why medical coverage should be connected to businesses and employment. We need it whether we are working, unemployed, retired, or underage.

And no, most voters do not like the results of the Trump administration. His approval rating is 37%. The GOP Congress is even lower. The smash-and-grab robbery of the Treasury, the tax bill, was the most unpopular legislation in over three decades. Since when is racking up debt during an economic upturn a good idea?

Rejecting the TPP did us no good whatsoever. The other 11 countries approved us, so all we managed to do was give China economic leadership in that region, and shut ourselves out of privileged access to the Japanese markets, something those other 11 countries now enjoy, but we do not.

We just laid down tariffs on Chinese solar panels and dishwashers. What do you think will happen? If no one retaliates then that will be a good move. How likely do you think it is, that no one will retaliate?

Posted by: phx8 at January 31, 2018 6:47 PM
Comment #423927

phx8, Association health plans used to be more common before Obamacare, which placed restrictions on their use. I wonder why you call this “socialism”? Every definition of socialism I look at includes government in the scheme.

Major Companies Band Together to Control Health Care Costs

“Twenty of the nation’s largest corporations have formed a coalition to create a more cost-efficient way of delivering health benefits to their employees. The Health Transformation Alliance (HTA), an initiative conceived by the American Health Policy Institute, wants to open the health care black box by increasing transparency of health care costs.”

http://galen.org/2016/major-companies-band-together-to-control-health-care-costs/

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 31, 2018 6:57 PM
Comment #423928

phx8 does not even realize how the Chinese and others are, and were, cheating on trade by running raw material and manufactured goods through Mexico to escape agreed upon tariffs and/or restrictions.

I suggest phx8 do some serious study of free trade versus fair trade so he can begin to understand how badly the United States suffered under existing trade deals.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 31, 2018 7:04 PM
Comment #423930
phx8 wrote: Non-profit insurance provided by the government would obviously be the best approach.
Wrong. But very typical of someone belonging to Extreme #2:
  • E X T R E M E #1: One extreme wants regressive taxation, unfettered capitalism, little (if any) government regulations, use wealth to influence government that is FOR-SALE; and wants the freedom to explore and wallow in almost every manifestation of unchecked greed.
  • E X T R E M E #2: The other extreme wants a nanny-state to take care of them from cradle-to-grave; who believe the solution to problems is more government; where citizens become increasingly dependent on the government; with massive cradle-to-grave government programs which are usually severely mismanaged and wasteful; a nanny-state that nurtures a sense-of-entitlement and dependency on government; who attempt to disguise their envy and jealousy as demands for equality; wants to grow government ever larger (despite the already current nightmare proportions); rewards failure and laziness; vilifies success; plays the race card at every chance; despicably attempts to change the electorate via promises of amnesty and citizenship for illegal immigrants; and perpetuates the myth that we can somehow all live at the expense of everyone else.
phx8 wrote: We all need coverage regardless of whether we are employed.
Who says non-profit corporations cannot provide insurance to un-employed citizens?
phx8 wrote: Medicare has proven to be an efficient system, much fore efficient that the private market.
Nevermind that there is $70 Billion per year in Medicare fraud!!!
phx8 wrote: The easy fix would be a Medicare-for-all approach, extended by tranches to younger and younger age groups.
Wrong. But, I would love to see a contest between these three, because I would make a large bet that (a) would come in dead last:
  • (1)non-profit health insurance managed by the federal government?
  • (2)non-profit health insurance managed by corporations?
  • (3)for-profit health insurance managed by corporations?

There’s no doubt in my mind that (a) would come in dead last, just based on $70+ Billion per year in Medicare fraud, and Social Security cannot evey operate today without borrowing money (it used to break even until about 6 years ago, but it now required borrowing).

phx8 wrote: I never understood why medical coverage should be connected to businesses and employment. We need it whether we are working, unemployed, retired, or underage.
What? Healthcare insurance isn’t only connected to employment. People can buy health insurance, whether they are employed or not. However, it may be cheaper for employees, since employers have a vested interest in their employees and offering benefits that attract the best talent.
phx8 wrote: And no, most voters do not like the results of the Trump administration.
Nonsense. Polls don’t don’t mean squat. The 2016 election proved that. Trump won 306 electoral votes which is 57% of the electoral votes (Hillary won 232).
phx8 wrote: His approval rating is 37%. The GOP Congress is even lower.
Nonsense. Congress’ approval ratings are 11% , but Congress enjoys 85%-to-90% re-election rates. Polls don’t make sense. Election results make sense.
phx8 wrote: The smash-and-grab robbery of the Treasury, the tax bill, was the most unpopular legislation in over three decades. Since when is racking up debt during an economic upturn a good idea?
OOOHHHhhhh … so you and democraps are worried about debt now?!? That’s funny. The national debt went from $9 Trillion to $21 Trillion under Obama (a new record). Healthcare costs more than doubled (perhaps tripled) under Obamacare. People didn’t get to keep their doctor like Obama said they could. People didn’t get to keep their health insurnace like Obama said they could. The Healthcare.gov site was a total joke. Some states are down to 1 or less insurance providers under Obamacare. Obamacare has been a total disaster (as most predicted it would be). That fact is, the federal government is terrible at administering most things, yet it has control of almost everything, and the cost is now beyond nightmare proportions.

However, these things are not likely increase the national debt, but could actually reduce the national debt:

  • Supreme court (Neil Gorsuch) and federal court appointments;
  • Lowering corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% (i.e. closer to the global average of about 20%), which is bringing some jobs back to the U.S.;
  • The push to secure the borders, and enforce existing immigration laws;
  • Tax cuts for most workers;
  • Highlighting the dishonesty of the Main Stream Media (mostly left leaning);
  • Unemployment has continued to fall; jobs are coming back to the U.S.;
  • roll-back and restrictions on many unnecessary regulations;
  • improved security via travel bans from nations with terrorists;
  • rejecting the Trans-Pacific partnership; working for FAIR TRADE; other countries put high tarrifs on our exports to other countries (that’s not fair trade);
  • roll-back on many of Obama’s effed-up policies; roll-back on the individual Obamacare mandate;
  • illegal immigration is down 67% !
  • the manufacturing index is up to a 33 year high;
  • the markets are up, because their is a new optimism, because of common-sense policies, and less red-tape and nonsensical regulations;
  • NATO announced Allied spending is up $10 Billion because of Donald Trump;
  • helped pass more legislation in less time than most presidents in U.S. history;
  • rebuilding the military;
  • working to cut funding from sanctuary cities and states;
  • and, the rapid decimation of I.S.I.S. ;

So, you are saying most voters don’t like most of the above?

phx8 wrote: Rejecting the TPP did us no good whatsoever.
It is doubtful that you could know that is true. It is doubtful that you understand it. Most trade deals do one thing (for many decades):
  • The U.S.A. gets cheap products (cheap and price and quality), but those foreign trade partners don’t want our exports, and they unfairly tax our products.
  • Essentially, few (if any) of or trade partners allow our products to be exported to foreign trade nations. What is fair about that? Besides, it is a good way to get some leverage on nations that steal and violate intellectual patents and laws.
phx8 wrote: The other 11 countries approved us, so all we managed to do was give China economic leadership in that region, and shut ourselves out of privileged access to the Japanese markets, something those other 11 countries now enjoy, but we do not.
SO what!?! They won’t buy our products anyway. They just steal, copy, and violate patents and intellectual laws.
phx8 wrote: We just laid down tariffs on Chinese solar panels and dishwashers. What do you think will happen? If no one retaliates then that will be a good move. How likely do you think it is, that no one will retaliate?
I don’t care if they do. We can make our own solar panels, and they will probably be of much higher quality. What good are cheap prices, if the cheap junk is worthless to begin with?

So, those are all weak arguments.
That’s what happens when some people are blinded by hate; they twist themselves into pretzels with circular nonsense, and wallow in the circular partisan-warfare, and lose any ability to look at things objectively.

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at January 31, 2018 8:51 PM
Comment #423931

Just heard that the Chinese solar panel company is going to build a plant here in the U. S. phx8.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 31, 2018 10:46 PM
Comment #423933
I didn’t vote for Trump or Hillary, but I can be objective enough to see good things have happened in one year, and am hopeful that the progress continues.

Umm…. a hero in your own mind eh D.A.N? You don’t seem to be the least bit objective IMHO. I know I know how can that be, you have cut and pasted your slanted world view so many times you must be objective. Well… you continue to cut and paste and remove all doubt in doing so. You tell us “IF Trump has commited crimes, then the proof should be made known to all, and he should be held accountable.” which on the surface seems objective but unable to keep from proving yourself wrong you continue with “IF Mueller and his investigation continues to go on and on and on, it is going to look pretty bad for democrats, who bet it all on so-called Russian collusion.” Which isn’t the least bit objective. Objective would be…well never mind… you don’t have it.

You have bought into the Faux News conspiracy theory that is not based in any reality.

I am willing to bet you didn’t have a problem with Ken Starr going on for years and from conspiracy to conspiracy hunting for Clinton did you?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 1, 2018 12:28 AM
Comment #423952
..Ken Starr going on for years and from conspiracy to conspiracy..

Don’t you mean?

..Ken Starr going on for years and from conspiracy to conspiracy avoiding the issue..
Posted by: Weary Willie at February 1, 2018 8:38 AM
Comment #423954
j2t2 wrote: … you have cut and pasted your slanted world view so many times you must be objective. Well… you continue to cut and paste and remove all doubt in doing so. You tell us “IF Trump has commited crimes, then the proof should be made known to all, and he should be held accountable.” which on the surface seems objective but unable to keep from proving yourself wrong you continue with “IF Mueller and his investigation continues to go on and on and on, it is going to look pretty bad for democrats, who bet it all on so-called Russian collusion.” Which isn’t the least bit objective. Objective would be…well never mind… you don’t have it.
Nonsense. because:
  • There is no conflict. Mueller IS going to look stupid if he spends several more years looking for Russion collusion, and finds nothing.
  • Investigations should be completed, but should not drag on and on for many years, without finding anything; it is a waste of time and money. IF any evidence of crimes are discovered, then the perpetrators should be held accountable
What’s wrong with that? Posted by: d.a.n at February 1, 2018 9:12 AM
Comment #423958
j2t2 wrote: Umm…. a hero in your own mind eh D.A.N? You don’t seem to be the least bit objective IMHO.
Nonsense. So, what in the list of milestones (above) do you not like (aside from border security)?
j2t2 wrote: I know I know how can that be, …
HMMmmmm … obviously not so, due to calling people RACISTs !!!, NAZIs !!!, BEASTIALITISTs !!!, etc. How credible is that?
j2t2 wrote: Umm…. a hero in your own mind eh D.A.N? You don’t seem to be the least bit objective IMHO.
Nonsense. So, what in the list of milestones (above) do you not like (aside from border security)?
j2t2 wrote: I know I know how can that be, …
HMMmmmm … obviously not so, due to calling people RACISTs !!!, NAZIs !!!, BEASTIALITISTs !!!, etc. How credible is that? Posted by: d.a.n at February 1, 2018 9:18 AM
Comment #423960
j2t2 wrote: I am willing to bet you didn’t have a problem with Ken Starr going on for years and from conspiracy to conspiracy hunting for Clinton did you?
Wrong. I thought it was a big waste of time and money. It failed to prove much wrong doing, except for perjury by Bill Clinton who lied in a sworn deposition about having sex with about Monika Lewinsky in the Oval Office. The allegation led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton and a five-year suspension of Bill Clinton’s law license (and Hillary wasn’t too happy about it). Bill Clinton was impeached, but subsequently allowed to retain office. Posted by: d.a.n at February 1, 2018 9:22 AM
Comment #423961
j2t2 wrote: You have bought into the Faux News conspiracy theory that is not based in any reality.
Nonsense. I watch several news stations (not only Fox News). Nobody should believe everything they hear from MSM news stations today, because few (if any) are trustworthy.
j2t2 wrote: I am willing to bet you didn’t have a problem with Ken Starr going on for years and from conspiracy to conspiracy hunting for Clinton did you?
Wrong. I thought it was a big waste of time and money. It failed to prove much wrong doing, except for perjury by Bill Clinton who lied in a sworn deposition about having an affair with about Monika Lewinsky in the Oval Office. The allegation led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton and a five-year suspension of Bill Clinton’s law license (and Hillary wasn’t too happy about it). Bill Clinton was impeached, but subsequently allowed to retain office.

The investigations into potential collusion should continue (but not for many years with no results).
Also, the potential misuse of the FBI to wire-tap and target Trump (for potential political reasons based on a fake dossier) should also be investigated.
ANYONE who broke any laws should be held accountable.
What’s wrong with that?

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 1, 2018 9:24 AM
Comment #423964
Nonsense. because:

D.A.N this was just one example of not being objective as you claim you are. You can go on and on but you blame the dems for being all in on this, which just isn’t the case.You can think it is but that is because you aren’t objective. The right wing propaganda machine has cranked up to fever pitch to get you guys to believe it is the investigators, the FBI and the DOJ that wanted to interfere in getting Trump elected. That two agents texting they didn’t like Trump is a sign of some deep state conspiracy.

Now if you were objective as you claim you would have said the repubs are all in on these weird conspiracies generated by the propaganda machine.But of course it was all one sided the dems are “all in” on the investigation whilst the repub aren’t “all in” on the attacks on the special council and law enforcement.

HMMmmmm … obviously not so, due to calling people RACISTs !!!, NAZIs !!!, BEASTIALITISTs !!!, etc. How credible is that?

Now now D.A.N first lets start with the last of your talking points “beast elitist”! Go back and read what was said D.. I didn’t call you anything of the sort. I didn’t insinuate anything of the sort. I didn’t imply anything of the sort. This is what I said “Whats the difference between the gringo tourist at the donkey show and the conservatives on Wb that believe the repubs on the intelligence committee actually have something of substance to show the American people?”

It seems your answer to that question is they are both “beastalitists” but you are wrong. The correct answer is they both have more gullibility tan they should.

As for the second talking poiint of conservatives everywhere, NAzis, I guess I will remind you once again. I am not calling anyone a Nazi. I look at you guys and see the good people, and you are good people, that were mislead by the fascist of the last century. I have recently came across several interesting clips of back in the day that seem to be relevant today.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 1, 2018 2:55 PM
Comment #423966

The first one A Night at the Garden shows 20,000 Americans at Madison Square Garden in 1939 for a night of fascism. It is interesting in how the sing the anthem, perform the pledge of allegiance and are so fond of the flag. These patriots were attacking the MSM as well, while demanding their country back. Does that ring any bells? Remind you of anyone?

These 20,000 Americans aren’t all bad people they are the same as us they just got fooled by promises and flags and by being called a patriot. That is why I zeig heil every once in a while, to remind you guys that not all that glitters is gold.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 1, 2018 3:16 PM
Comment #423967

From what I read, the democrats have unloosed all their cannons to prevent the release of the memo coming out of the House Intelligence Committee.

Both parties have proclaimed the benefits of “open government” and transparency in our federal agencies.

Now, we have one party ginning up all kinds of excuses as to why this time is different. We are told that the American Public are not mature enough, educated enough, and nuanced enough, to understand a four page memo that our elected representatives have seen and voted be made public.

The conclusion is apparent to all with eyes, ears, and functioning brain. The information contained in this memo is political dynamite that may blow up the myth that some of our most trusted federal agencies never allow politics to influence their actions and decisions.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 1, 2018 3:26 PM
Comment #423968

The second clip , Don’t be a sucker is a friendly reminder, from the US war department back in 1947, to not be so prejudice against others and to not wait for those that are prejudice to come for you.

At that time it was Negros getting jobs, Foreigners, Catholics and Free Masons. Anyway the point of it is this is one of the ways the Fascist came to power in Europe back in the 1920’s and ‘30’s. They divided the people of their countries. Sound familiar ?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 1, 2018 3:28 PM
Comment #423969

Many thanks to j2t2 for the 1939 MSG video. In many ways it reminds me of the 1924 Democrat Party National Convention, better known as the “Klanbake”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 1, 2018 3:40 PM
Comment #423971

The rejection of progressive policy does not make one a fascist. Undoing progressive policy is not fascism.

Americans have always been overtly patriotic in their love of country and respect for our flag, and for good reason.

For God sakes J2, there isn’t some fascist movement going on that you can point to, or a single nazi in our government that you can single out, to prove your conspiracy.
Just accept that you leftists lost, buckle down, try not to be so extreme, and go for a win next time.

Posted by: kctim at February 1, 2018 4:35 PM
Comment #423973

Next week, Mark Corallo will talk with the Mueller investigation. Those of you who read “Fire and Fury” know who he is. Corallo resigned shortly after the infamous flight where Trump and Hope Hicks constructed a cover story for Trump Jr. about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians. Corallo was disturbed because he knew it was a false statement intended to mislead.

It gets worse for Trump. Rick Gates- the #2 guy from the Trump Campaign who faces a raft of indictments along with Manafort- is about to make a plea. His old lawyers are out, and the new one specializes in plea bargains. That means Manafort will die in jail. Not only that, Gates served with Trump for the entire transition, so Gates may very well give up Trump too.

Trump is out of time and he needs to get rid of the Mueller Investigation ASAP. The purpose of the memo is simple: provide a pretext to fire Deputy AG Rosenstein ‘for cause.’ If the FBI Director Wray quits, so much the better. Although both Rosenstein and Wray are Republicans picked by Trump, they have not stopped Mueller and he is too close. Once Rosenstein is gone, his replacement can end the investigation, just like that.

Discrediting the DOJ, the FBI, and the FISA courts are just icing on the cake.

There are a lot of happy Russians in the Kremlin tonight.

Posted by: phx8 at February 1, 2018 6:32 PM
Comment #423974

“The purpose of the memo is simple:…”

According to a majority of the elected representatives of the people in the House who have actually read the memo, the purpose has no relationship to what you pose phx8.

I will go with elected representatives rather than whatever conspiracy theorist you are relying on. Apparently your sources are so unreliable that you don’t even identify them or link to their actual words.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 1, 2018 6:40 PM
Comment #423975

Just in case you missed it phx8. Mika Brzezinski booted ‘Fire and Fury’ author Michael Wolff from ‘Morning Joe’ after a tense argument about UN ambassador Nikki Haley.

Even the mostly rabid MSNBC talking heads can’t stand Wolff and his lies.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 1, 2018 6:48 PM
Comment #423976
Discrediting the DOJ, the FBI, and the FISA courts are just icing on the cake. There are a lot of happy Russians in the Kremlin tonight. Posted by: phx8 at February 1, 2018 6:32 PM

It’s a circular firing squad. I hope they get more ammo. The FBI are mostly right wingers. Conservatives who hate Dumpty have spread all over the media. Carter Page was being surveilled before he ever got involved with the campaign. Who recommended this guy? Putin? Nunes was in the meeting with Flynn where they discussed kidnapping a US resident to send him to his death in Turkey. His pants are on fire.

Dumpty has been trying to get deals going in russia for 40 years. He has been under some kind of surveillance by the russians since then. It started out with Ivana’s father giving reports about him to the Czech secret police, which were relayed to Moscow in the communist era. Thirty years ago, the KGB did a profile on him , and decided they could probably develop him as an asset. This was when the russians decided to try to go after right wingers in the US instead of left wingers. He went to russia in 1987 with Ivana and came back wanting to run for POTUS in 1988, or try to get the VP spot with GHWB. Ten years ago, he got involved with the Agalarovs, helping them to promote russian interests and trying to sell them vodka(ha!) He was always desperate to meet Putin, and to develop a tower in Moscow, and probably still is.

j2t2, when someone expresses disdain that someone survived the holocaust, or regret that white people aren’t having enough children, they’re nazis. So are the people who agree with them.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 1, 2018 7:45 PM
Comment #423978
For God sakes J2, there isn’t some fascist movement going on that you can point to, or a single nazi in our government that you can single out, to prove your conspiracy.

Kctim, our current president considers these people his base. He doesn’t come right out and say he is a Nazi/Fascist and who would after all the grief they caused the last time around. But that doesn’t mean they don’t exist in government or in the repub party.

The neo-fascism we see rearing it’s head daily in this country is distinguished by “ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, anti-socialism, anti-Marxism, anti-anarchism and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy”.

Sounds just like the tea baggers platform doesn’t it? I mean you guys seem to oppose many of the ideals of liberal democracy such as “fair, free and competitive elections between multiple distinct political parties, a separation of powers into different branches of government, the rule of law in everyday life as part of an open society and the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties and political freedoms for all people.”

Fair, free and competitive elections with the help of the Russians…oh …wait I don’t see Russians in that definition. Or the gerrymandering and voter suppression laws you guys passed.

Holding up the Obama nominee for the SCOTUS for the most part of a year so the populist could pick Gorsuch for the bench and retain a conservative majority. consolidating power is what the fascist do kctim. Separation of powers is what liberal democracies do.

The rule of law doesn’t apply when Trump is on the short end of the stick. To the point of our elected representatives attacking the press, the FBI, DOJ and starting deep state conspiracy theories.

I’m willing to bet “the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties and political freedoms for all people” just makes your skin crawl kctim. You guys prefer the 3/5ths person with no voting rights for coloreds or women or those who don’t own land type constitution which doesn’t exactly jive with liberal democracies.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 2, 2018 12:13 AM
Comment #423979

ohrealy & j2t2,
It is ironic that the GOP supports Trump in attacks on the FBI and DOJ, two organizations that are predominantly conservative.

Nunes is compromised. I’m not sure if it involves Flynn, the Turks, and that kidnapping plot, or the Russians, or Trump, but someone has got the goods on him.

Speaker Ryan’s willingness to allow Nunes to keep his Chair is hard to understand. Ryan should have fired him when Nunes pretended to receive damaging information about Susan Rice and Stephanie Powers from a secret intelligence source; it turned out the source was the White House. Nunes then stood in front of the White House and delivered a briefing as if he was letting the White House know about it, when they were the ones who provided it to him in the first place. And there was nothing wrong whatsoever with what Powers & Rice did. That was simply disgraceful. So why does Ryan go along with Nunes?

I think the Russia scandal goes farther than the election and Trump, and may affect the entire Republican Party, and that is what Ryan is trying to protect. Because of Citizens United, it is too easy to sidestep campaign finance laws and anonymously put tens of millions of dollars into a party’s coffers. Trump and the Russians know what happened, and they are holding it over Ryan. Go along and Trump will sign whatever he passes. Fight it, and watch what happens.

That partly explains the turn towards neo-fascism or white nationalism. The tendency was always there, under the surface- the vote suppression, the craven cronyism, the faux Christianity- it just needed the toxic mix of a cult of personality with a campaign that pushed hatred of immigrants, foreigners, and non-whites to send the GOP careening off the rails.

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 1:01 AM
Comment #423985

Seems the old alinski play book being used by the left isn’t quite as effective as it once was. Apparently repeating things over and over again doesn’t make people believe they’re true. you know, racist, etc. Can’t wait to see what is in this memo, and at the same time wondering just how much will actually be readable. As pissed as the democrats are about it’s release, does give me hope there will be some good stuff in there.

Posted by: dbs at February 2, 2018 7:55 AM
Comment #423987

J2,

“our current president considers these people his base.”

Sigh. No, President Trump does not consider a few hundred so-called fascists to be his base. The GOP doesn’t support fascism. Fascism has no place in our government.
IF you had any proof otherwise, you wouldn’t have to use spin and partisan generalizations to make your point.
Pitiful.

Your need to disparage our country, Constitution and culture, does not make love of country equal to what you label “ultranationalism.”
Support of immigration policies of our very recent past does not make one anti-immigration.
Communism, socialism, Marxism, anarchism or your liberal democracy cannot coexist with our Constitution.

“Sounds just like the tea baggers platform doesn’t it?”

No, it does not. IF you actually knew what you were talking about, instead of just repeating talking-points, you would see that such an opinion is based on nothing but hyperbole.

“I mean you guys seem to oppose many of the ideals of liberal democracy”

That is because we are a Constitutional Republic, not the liberal democracy we are transforming into. On paper, the two share many of the same ideals, but you don’t go from a nation founded on individualism to a nation that casts aside the rights of the individual in favor of the desires of society, over night.
Americans don’t oppose all the things in your Wiki copy and paste, they oppose your conspiracy theories, opinion and hypocrisy on them.
While it is true that the line has been blurred, there is still separation of powers. Your willingness to look the other way when it’s the left doing it, is why that line is so easily blurred nowadays.

“The rule of law doesn’t apply when Trump is on the short end of the stick.”

Don’t be silly. Of course it does. You just need actual proof of wrongdoing. Your hyper-partisanship just makes you irrationally impatient.

“I’m willing to bet “the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties and political freedoms for all people” just makes your skin crawl kctim.”

And now, your inability to defend what you say with actual facts has forced you to resort to such drivel. Sigh.

Your claims of fascism are based on nothing else but disagreement and rejection of ‘progressive’ policies.
Thanks for proving my point.

Posted by: kctim at February 2, 2018 10:05 AM
Comment #423988

I Got Kool-Aid - Rocky Mountain Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afkdvB1XfbE

Speaker Ryan’s willingness to allow Nunes to keep his Chair is hard to understand..I think the Russia scandal goes farther than the election and Trump, and may affect the entire Republican Party…That partly explains the turn towards neo-fascism or white nationalism…the vote suppression, the craven cronyism, the faux Christianity- it just needed the toxic mix of a cult of personality with a campaign that pushed hatred of immigrants, foreigners, and non-whites to send the GOP careening off the rails. Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 1:01 AM

There are supposed to be recordings from the rightwing darthvader convention of both Ryan and McConnell talking to Kislyak on his phone about the sanctions. I don’t think there’s anything “neo” about what the right wing is doing. It’s been there all along. It’s the price of the “southern strategy”. The dixiecrats who dominated the senate in the 50s were all elected with FDR, and supported most government spending until it became clear that segregation was going to go. Goldwater was an in-between point in 64. In 66 more liberal Rpblcns were elected. Then “crypto-nazi” Buckley and his ilk tried to oust them, and Nixon (with GHWBush) developed the strategy that brought us into the current divisive situation, wherein some people think that the plantations are more significant than the places where most Americans actually live.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 2, 2018 11:39 AM
Comment #423989
j2t2 wrote: D.A.N this was just one example of not being objective as you claim you are. You can go on and on but you blame the dems for being all in on this [Russia, Russia, Russia,…], which just isn’t the case.
  • Wrong. Many democrats ARE fixated on the possiblity of “Russia-collusion” by Trump.
  • Wrong. Many republicans ARE fixated on the possiblity of misuse of the FBI and “the FISA memo”.

Yet, after more than one year, there’s still no credible evidence of Russion collusion (thus far).
As stated before, the same might can said about the FISA memo (thus far).
As atated before, There may be nothing major there, and the most that might happen is a few people resigning with their cushy pensions.
No one knows (yet).

j2t2 wrote: You can think it is, but that is because you aren’t objective.
Nonsense. Just because someone disagrees means nothing. As for credibility and objectiveness, how credible is anyone who calls, or insinuates that anyone who disagrees with them is a RACIST !!!, NAZI !!!, BEASTIALITIST !!!, etc.?
j2t2 wrote: The right wing propaganda machine has cranked up to fever pitch to get you guys to believe it is the investigators, the FBI and the DOJ that wanted to interfere in getting Trump elected.
First of all, what about the left-wing propaganda machine?

No one knows of misues of FBI powers yet, or collusion between Russia and Trump, so your statement is false.
Several times, I have written that the most that might happen is a few people will resign with their cushy pensions.
Bias and opinion are not illegal.
Where is the evidence of the punishable crimes?

j2t2 wrote: That two agents texting they didn’t like Trump is a sign of some deep state conspiracy.
Agreed. That proves bias, but it not necessarily a crime. So, your assertions about me falling for the hype are wrong again. We should wait to see the evidence.
j2t2 wrote: Now if you were objective as you claim you would have said the repubs are all in on these weird conspiracies generated by the propaganda machine.
Maybe, and the same could be said about the “Trump/Russia Collusion” conspiracy theories. IF one is truly objective, they can see the conspiracy theories abound from both the left and right wing propaganda machines. So, why focus on only one side?

Again, as stated several times before (in several threads), I have said that all of the conspiracies from BOTH the left and right may lead to no more than a few people resigning with their cushy pensions. So, why do you continue with this nonsense to paint me as brain-washed by right-wing conspiracy theories, when I havfe not bought into the left or right wing conspiracy theories? I will wait for the evidence.

j2t2 wrote: But of course it was all one sided the dems are “all in” on the investigation whilst the repub aren’t “all in” on the attacks on the special council and law enforcement.
Nonsense. Yes, many democrats ARE “all-in” on the “Russia-collusion” conspiracy theory.

And many republicans are “all-in” on the “FISA memo” conspiracy theory.
But as of this minute, neither have produced any evidence that will lead to more than a few people resigning with their cushy pensions.

So, how is that one-sided?
How is that not objective?

d.a.n wrote: … calling people RACISTs !!!, NAZIs !!!, BEASTIALITISTs !!!, etc. How credible is that?
j2t2 wrote: Now now D.A.N first lets start with the last of your talking points “beast elitist”! Go back and read what was said D.. I didn’t call you anything of the sort. I didn’t insinuate anything of the sort. I didn’t imply anything of the sort. This is what I said “Whats the difference between the gringo tourist at the donkey show and the conservatives on Wb [Watchblog] that believe the repubs on the intelligence committee actually have something of substance to show the American people?”
j2t2 wrote: I never said that you called me all those things. I said you called people those things. You ARE insinuating that people are those things.

Either way, name-calling or insinuation, it is not helping your credibility.
Name-calling and/or insinuatined people are RACISTs, NAZIs, or BEASTIALITISTs (or other hateful names) is not only ineffective, but only causes people who may have been sympathetic to your position, to become more entrenched against your positions.
So, you could be more credible and effective by stating solid reasons and evidence, instead of conclusions, name-calling, and insinuations (via comparisons to racits, nazis and beastialitists, etc.

j2t2 wrote: It seems your answer to that question is they are both “beastalitists” but you are wrong. The correct answer is they both have more gullibility than they should.
Nonsense. I never asserted any answer of the kind, and certainly never implied anyone was a “beastalitist”. But you did insinuate that very thing about “the repubs”:
    j2t2 wrote: Whats the difference between a Tijuana donkey show and what we have seen from the repubs on the intelligence committee this past month?
    j2t2 wrote: As for the second talking poiint of conservatives everywhere, NAzis, I guess I will remind you once again.
    j2t2 wrote: I am not calling anyone a Nazi.
You are insinuating those things, and worse (as demonstrated by your comment (see above) about “the repubs”). IF you make these insinuations often enough, it should not be surprising that people draw the conclusion that you are calling them Nazis, racists, beastialitists, etc.
j2t2 wrote: I look at you guys and see the good people, and you are good people, that were mislead by the fascist of the last century. I have recently came across several interesting clips of back in the day that seem to be relevant today.
I think your comments exemplify the comments of many left-leaning people who have blown this W A Y out of proportion. Here is why:
  • Unlike NAZI Germany, we have laws against many forms of discrimination (especially against institutionalized discrimination).
  • We have a 3 branches of government (Executive, Legislative, & Judicial) to help keep what happened in NAZI Germany from happening today.
  • That danger of corruption in government always exist, but there are checks-and-balances, and I do not see the U.S.A. even remotely close to turning into NAZI Germany.
  • There are way, way too many Americans who will not let that happen, who reject that level of racism, facism, and corruption.

Such comments about the dangers of facism, nazism, racism, etc., and name-calling or insinuations (i.e. that people are racists, Nazis, beastialitists, facists, etc.), and that the masses of right-leaning Americans are brainwashed, are blown WAY out of proportion.

It would more effective to cite solid examples of crimes, corruption, facism, racism, etc.
Trump says stupid things, but please show us real evidence of crimes, racism, corruption, etc.
That’s what matters, and IF any crimes have been comitted by Trump (or anyone else), then the perpetrators should be prosecuted and held accountable.

So, what is wrong with that?
Don’t just draw conclusions by saying “You are” duped, or brain-washed, or racist, etc. Cite evidence. Just the facts. That is what will change minds.
Only because people like the following, does not mean they are nazis, racists, beastialitists, or brainwashed:

  • lowering corporate tax from 35% to 21% (close to global average) is a good thing, since 35% was driving corporations out of the U.S.;
  • securing the borders (via a wall, or patrols, or both);
  • ending chain-migration; ending the visa/immigration lottery; enforcing existing immigration laws; prosecuting illegal employers; require eVerify; rejecting open-borders;
  • tax cuts for most people; rates as high as almost 40% is obscene;
  • fair trade; rejecting the un-fair Trans-Pacific Partnership;
  • less unnecssary bureaucratic regulations;
  • the rapid decimation of I.S.I.S;
  • rebuliding the military;
  • improved security via travel bans from nations with significant terrorism, or sponsors of terrorism;
  • cut funding to sanctuary cities who thumb their nose at existing illegal immigration laws;
  • elimination of ACA penalties;
  • supreme court (Neil Corsuch) and federal court appointments;
  • support for the 2nd amendment;
  • NATO spending is up $10 Billion (also to fight terrorism);
  • attempts to repeal ACA, which is failing drastically and resulted in healthcare costs increasing by over 200% (and much more in some areas);
  • optimism in the economy and investment markets because of all of the above;

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 2, 2018 11:52 AM
Comment #423990

Excerpts from the memo are coming out, and it appears the democrats are completely f@&cked. Hahahahaha !

Posted by: dbs at February 2, 2018 12:08 PM
Comment #423991
j2t2 wrote: Now now D.A.N first lets start with the last of your talking points “beast elitist”! Go back and read what was said D.. I didn’t call you anything of the sort. I didn’t insinuate anything of the sort. I didn’t imply anything of the sort. This is what I said “Whats the difference between the gringo tourist at the donkey show and the conservatives on Wb [Watchblog] that believe the repubs on the intelligence committee actually have something of substance to show the American people?”
I never said that you called me all those things. I said you called people those things. You ARE insinuating that people are those things.

Again, Trump says a lot of stupid things.
I am not going to try to defend any of it.

However, people who like the list above does not mean they condone Trumps stupid statements.
People who like the results in the list above does not mean they are wrong, much less racist, facist, etc.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 2, 2018 12:09 PM
Comment #423992
j2t2 wrote: I never said that you called me all those things. I said you called people those things. You ARE insinuating that people are those things.

Are you putting words in my mouth D.?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 2, 2018 12:29 PM
Comment #423994

What the corrupt democrat plants in the DOJ and FBI have done is give defense attorneys for terrorist a means of defending their clients. If the DNC and Hillary were able to get a wire tap on the Trump campaign, based solely on a made up document, how many defense attorneys for Ali babas are going to claim the same thing? They have all been proven to be liars and corrupt, and Mueller should by instantly fired. He has no case, there is no Trump/Russian collusion; but there was collusion between the DNC/Hillary/FBI. Further, Trump is once again vindicated when he claimed Obama was wiretapping Trump tower. It was happening. My guess is the dung is going to hit the fan.

Posted by: Blaine at February 2, 2018 2:36 PM
Comment #423995

Wow…what a sad day for our Democratic Republic. It has been factually revealed that the constitutional rights of American citizens were wantonly disregarded, for political reasons, by the very people charged with protecting those rights.

For me, there is no worse sin than betrayal by someone trusted.

While the nation mourns the loss of trust in government, we take heart in knowing that there remain some inside, and outside of government who are willing to expose such heinous and traitorous acts.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 2:44 PM
Comment #423997

The willful ignorance of so many conservatives is disheartening to see. Senator McCain knows the truth The repubs are doing Putins job for him.


To think that the release of this misleading political ploy somehow means there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and the the Russians is foolish.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 2, 2018 3:18 PM
Comment #423999

OK, I’ll bite j2t2. Just for grins, please tell us the facts of “collusion” between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

Keep in mind Pal, anything not factual will lead to ridicule of you in the face of known facts.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 3:31 PM
Comment #424000

j2


“To think that the release of this misleading political ploy somehow means there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and the the Russians is foolish.”

Lol. That dog won’t hunt.

Posted by: dbs at February 2, 2018 3:36 PM
Comment #424001

By the way j2t2, Senator McCain did not speak about any “collusion” as you seem to think.

It is difficult to understand your linking to an article that does not agree with your comments.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 3:38 PM
Comment #424003

He’s a headline reader.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 2, 2018 3:56 PM
Comment #424004

Good description Weary

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 4:06 PM
Comment #424005

The memo is a bust.

The problem is that it is, as many people have already observed, factually misleading, and it omits crucial information.

To understand why, you need to know something about Carter Page. In 2013 he appeared on the FBI radar. A Russian spy ring in NYC was trying to recruit him, and Page was happy to provide some non-classified material to them, the first step in recruiting. The ring was busted; rather humorously, they were caught on tape calling Page “an idiot.” In any event, Page went on to make many trips to Moscow, where he made anti-American speeches. He was upset because he lost a lot of money due to sanctions.

Trump named him a Foreign Policy advisor in 2016. Page left the campaign and travelled to Moscow in the summer of 2016, where he met with the Deputy Prime Minister and some sanctioned individuals. This drew a lot of attention from the IC.

In October, a FISA warrant was issued. At this time, Page was no longer with the Trump campaign. The warrant was renewed every 90 days, several times into 2017.

It is not publicly known if the raw intelligence in the Steele Dossier about Page is true or false. The FISA warrant was based upon the Dossier, information related by Papodopolous, and ‘other’ sources, which we do not know.

Is Carter Page a spy? We do not know that either. The FBI warned him in 2013 that he was being recruited. Meanwhile, there is no law against traveling to Moscow, making anti-American speeches, and meeting with the Deputy Prime Minister.

But this guy is certainly material for a FISA warrant. He did something material to justify renewing the warrants every 90 days, for four times.

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 4:33 PM
Comment #424007

So the memo is a bust. It has destroyed the House Intelligence Committee and the career of Devin Nunes, it has created a lot of enmity among the FBI and DOJ for Trump and the Republicans. But in terms of the big picture, it will really matter if Trump uses it as a pretext to fire Rosenstein.

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 4:42 PM
Comment #424008

I see no reason to respond to comments that are pure fiction phx8. Have fun.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 4:47 PM
Comment #424009

phx8 IMO it wasn’t a total bust but far from the hype that was given it earlier. It did show that the Dossier was WRONGLY used to get warrants from FISA and who was involved in it. That may or may not be damaging to Mueller’s investigation. But all in all it shows me how low a party will stoop to win an election and how low some will stoop to damage the winner if their side is the loser.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 2, 2018 4:53 PM
Comment #424011
‘other’ sources, which we do not know. Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 4:33 PM

Those would be the intelligence services of about eight other countries, including Australia, Poland, Germany, Netherlands, and Estonia. I can’t remember the others right now.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 2, 2018 4:55 PM
Comment #424012

I almost forgot France.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 2, 2018 4:59 PM
Comment #424013

I’ve read about Australia, the U.K., the Dutch, and the Estonian Intelligence Communities warning us about Trump and the Russians.

There is a pretty amazing story about the Dutch breaking into the Russian propaganda mill/troll farm, Cozy Bear. They knew about the attacks on the DNC in the spring of 2016- hopefully they warned us. What made it so cool is that the Dutch even hacked the security camera in the building, so they could watch the Russian trolls go in and out of the door to their work stations. Nice!

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 5:07 PM
Comment #424014

The memo makes the DNC and Hillary look bad (i.e. they funded the fake Steele dossier).

It makes the leadership of the FBI look politically biased (for basing warrants (in part or whole) on the fake Steele dossier).

However, can someone tell me what laws were broken, and who is going to be held legally accountable?

Holding anyone accountable appears to depend on timing about who knew, and when who knew that the Steele dossier was 100% fake, and funded by Hillary and the DNC.

All involved could easily make excuses that they didn’t know that the Steele dossier was 100% fake, in which it wouldn’t matter who funded the Steele dossier, because more investigation was required.

Perhaps Comey should be indicted?
Comey deserved to get fired, for no other reason than ignoring Hillary’s violations (sending classified information to/from her insecure email server, which somehow ended up on Anthony Weiner’s laptop). McCabe knew the emails on Weiner’s labtop one month before alerting Congress. So, perhaps he should be indicted too?

Sure, Russia probably loves to see all of this dysfunction, but ignoring the problem is not the solution. It isn’t the end of the U.S. only because some corruption has been revealed.

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 2, 2018 5:14 PM
Comment #424015

Phx8 a lot of people don’t like Trump so they will say anything to discredit him. We all know you dispise him and also will say anything to discredit him. If all that you claimed were true he should have been impeached the day after the innaguration.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at February 2, 2018 5:15 PM
Comment #424016

da.n.,
The Steele Dossier is not ‘fake.’ It was initially started by Fusion GPS for the right wing Washington Beacon owner as opposition research. When the GOP primary campaign foundered (almost certainly Jeb Bush), Hillary Clinton’s campaign took it over. Fusion GPS was initially paid by the GOP campaign, not Clinton. Steele was paid by Fusion GPS. Steele was once head of the Russian Desk for MI-6. He has been used by the US IC for other matters, and is considered professional and highly reliable.

The Steele Dossier consists of raw intelligence from at least 17 sources. It is raw- not verified- but Steele estimates it is somewhere between 70-90% accurate. He provided it to the FBI.

The public did not see it until January 2017, after the election.

“On his own initiative, Steele decided to also pass the information to British and American intelligence services because he believed the findings were a matter of national security for both countries. According to the testimony of Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson, Steele approached the FBI because he was concerned that the then candidate, Donald Trump, was being blackmailed by Russia. However, he became frustrated with the FBI, which he believed was failing to investigate his reports, choosing instead to focus on the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails. According to The Independent, Steele came to believe that there was a “cabal” inside the FBI, particularly its New York field office linked to Trump advisor Rudy Giuliani, which blocked any attempts to investigate the links between Trump and Russia.”
Wikipedia

Some of the Dossier has been independently verified. Some has been proven. None has been disproven.

As for the more salacious aspects, there are rumors of two s*x tapes out there of Trump and prostitutes, in Moscow and in St. Petersburg. For one of the rumored events, prostitutes did in fact show up at the hotel where Trump was staying, and they set up a big fuss when the desk would not allow them up to Trump’s room. There are witnesses. Whether they made it up to his room, we will probably never know.

What we do know is that after initially denying contacts and meetings, the Trump campaign had dozens of contacts, e-mail exchanges, phone calls, and meetings.

The House & Senate passed an authorization for sanctions against Russia by a combined vote of 517-5. Trump refused to implement them.

Figure it out.

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 5:50 PM
Comment #424018

phx8 Politifact says mostly FALSE. Try to watch more then CNN.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 2, 2018 6:12 PM
Comment #424019

Is this what you are referring to? Because it says the claim the FISA warrant was based solely on the Dossier was ‘mostly false.’

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2018/jan/05/elizabeth-foley/taking-closer-look-steele-dossier-and-carter-pages/

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 6:47 PM
Comment #424020

Just curious, has anyone, anyone at all, proclaimed that anything, anything at all, is not true in the memo?

Hmmmmm?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 7:11 PM
Comment #424021

phx8, like Richard wrote …

Richard Kapitan wrote: IF all that you claimed were true he [Trump] should have been impeached the day after the inaguration.

IF Trump broke the law, he should face the consequences.

However, I still haven’t seen sufficient proof to lead to Trump’s impeachment. So, the Steele dossier seems like a bust. It also seems like Mueller would have found something by now, IF there was anything.

Again, whose going to be indicted?

Probably, no one.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 2, 2018 7:18 PM
Comment #424022

Phx8 that along with other sources even some liberal media sources say the dossier is fake.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at February 2, 2018 7:27 PM
Comment #424023

Quote from the “memo”

“Furthermore, [FBI] Deputy Director [Andrew] McCabe testified before the committee in December 2017 that no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the Steele dossier information.”

Hmmm…who thinks House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes is lying?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 2, 2018 7:29 PM
Comment #424024

phx8, Do you think a FISA judge would have issued warrants if he/she knew it was paid for by the DNC Hillary campaign? Or if an FBI investigators wife worked for Fusion?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 2, 2018 7:54 PM
Comment #424025

“… Do you think a FISA judge would have issued warrants if he/she knew it was paid for by the DNC Hillary campaign?”

If the information appeared unreliable, then no. If the information appeared reliable, then yes.

One interesting thing was confirmed by the memo. The US IC learned about the Russians from Papodopolous, who drank too much in a wine bar and told an Australian diplomat the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton. THAT started the ball rolling, not the Steele Dossier.

Despite all the Russian contacts with all those people in the Trump Campaign- the calls, the e-mails, the meetings- not once did anyone contact the FBI about what the Russians were doing. Not once.

A bunch of crooks and traitors.

Posted by: phx8 at February 2, 2018 8:57 PM
Comment #424026

Like I said phx8 if half of what you claim is true, Trump should have been impeached the day after the inauguration. Also if people believed half of what I said when I was drunk I be in deep S××t right now.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at February 2, 2018 9:19 PM
Comment #424493

nice sharing thank for the article

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