Third Party & Independents Archives

​Senator Graham Grabs The Torch From Senator Schumer

Round one is done. Schumer spent the latter part of the first round on the ropes after throwing a few opening punches that didn’t really land. Meanwhile Nancy just won’t shut up from the edge of the canvas. But hey, this is just starting. We get to do it all over again in 17 days.

And the real ugly head-butting and kidney-shots was actually between members of the GOP team. Lindsey Graham was digging into poor Stephen Miller who now has the distinction of being rudely cut off by CNN's Jake Tapper and kneecapped by South Carolina's Lindsey Graham. Here's what the senior senator from South Carolina said to reporters on Sunday:

As long as Stephen Miller is in charge of negotiating immigration, we are going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years.

Why is Miller an "outlier"?

Because he - like those voters who helped elect President Trump - is against any sort of immigration deal that does not clearly curtail family immigration and does not provide reasonable funds for a border fence/wall/security system. And that tightens up internal controls regarding illegals as well. And that is assuredly not the deal Graham has worked out with Durbin and four other senators.

And because Miller had the audacity to push back against Graham's deal with Dick Durbin, from an ideological position outside of the norms that govern most senators on this issue. He dared to question Senate orthodoxy - both in substance and in process - and so Senator Graham decided to blame the shutdown on Miller. A ridiculous hissy-fit, temper tantrum by a bad-tempered, not-that-young-anymore senator.

That's why Miller's an outlier. He doesn't deal the way Graham does on immigration, and has been doing for over a decade. Liberally, with more than a dash of amnesty.

Miller has his employers at the White House on his side, however. And the pushback was hard and fast. Here's what White House spokesperson Hogan Gidley had to say:

As long as Senator Graham chooses to support legislation that sides with people in this country illegally and unlawfully instead of our own American citizens, we are going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years.

What this means (for now at least) is that maybe, just maybe, the White House is showing some of the discipline that the GOP House members have shown as far as this shutdown was concerned. Maybe the substance of what you offer in any deal matters more than how well you get along with President Trump on the golf course.

Maybe.

In Senator Schumer's words:

Now there is a real pathway to get a bill on the floor and through the Senate. It is a good solution and I will vote for it.

A solution for the (first?) shutdown, to be perfectly and abso-frickin'-lutely clear. NOT a solution to immigration, whether as pertaining to Dreamers and DACA or in a broader sense. That second solution is still waiting to be worked out and if the skirmishes in this first round were any indication, finding any sort of solution will be very tough. But not impossible. Even with the gaps between House and Senate attempts to define immigration reform.

In other words, is Senator Graham going to take over from Senator Schumer in being the immigration debate doofus??

I would start with a little White House pressure on the senior senator from South Carolina. Oh. They already have. This should be interesting.

Posted by AllardK at January 23, 2018 1:41 PM
Comments
Comment #423623

Graham has been soft on illegal immigration for many years (or decades). Graham is part of the swamp. He is incredulous that voters were so sick-and-tired of the Repugnicans and Democras, that they decided only an outsider could would have any chance of draining the swamp.

Posted by: d.a.n at January 23, 2018 5:38 PM
Comment #423624

The California Attorney General (Xavier Becerra) said he will prosecute any employer who helps enforce federal illegal immigration laws.

The governor of Washington state is telling the police to not cooperate with .I.C.E.

Perhaps the U.S.A. is crumbling?

Posted by: d.a. at January 23, 2018 5:44 PM
Comment #423625

Round them all up and prosecute and then strip them of their citizenship and deport them, d. a. n.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 23, 2018 6:49 PM
Comment #423626

And arrest Xavier Becerra (POS), who is flagrantly violating the federal laws, and the constitution.
Same for the governor of Washington State.
These people are traitors.

Posted by: d.a.n at January 23, 2018 9:54 PM
Comment #423627

Unfortunately, it is disturbing that it does not appear that the Federal DOJ is doing anything about it?
It is disturbing that few have yet comprehended that the Democraps are trying to take control of the electorate via uncontrolled immigration via promises of amnesty and citizenship. WTHF ?

Posted by: d.a.n at January 23, 2018 10:03 PM
Comment #423630
It is disturbing that few have yet comprehended that the Democraps are trying to take control of the electorate via uncontrolled immigration via promises of amnesty and citizenship.

Wow it’s all about the dems getting votes! Amazing, absolutely amazing.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 24, 2018 2:29 AM
Comment #423631

Voter suppression laws,hyper-Gerrymandering and a propaganda machine second to none isn’t enough for you guys!

Posted by: j2t2 at January 24, 2018 2:32 AM
Comment #423632

So if the dems decide to get votes by getting rid of any and all gun laws would you guys favor banning firearms?

I see ICE has a Doctor from Michigan in custody , been here 40 years, Can’t speak Polish but is in the process of being deported back to Poland. Permanent green card, but he had a destruction of property and receiving and concealing stolen property 26 years ago that ICE considers to fall under moral turpitude. Been pulled over for speeding several times over the years. The Trump administration and moral turpitude is as ironic as it gets.
Welcome to Trumps America, Zeig Heil.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 24, 2018 4:47 AM
Comment #423634

So criminal immigrants should be allowed to stay here?
Anyone who disagrees is a Nazi?
I am not condoning Gerrymandering or voter suppression.
Ban firearms?
All weak arguments.

Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 8:24 AM
Comment #423635

And, yes. It is despicable that democraps are pandering and promising amnesty and citizenship to get votes, and both democraps and repugnicana like the cheap labor. Pitting U.S. citizens and illegal immigrants against each other for votes and cheap labor is despicable (not to mention it is also illegal).

Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 8:36 AM
Comment #423636

However, I.C.E. should be focusing on the most dangerous illegal immigrants.
The doctor in Michigan (Lukasz Niec) did commit crimes when he was 17 years old (decades ago), but he does not appear to be dangerous.

But how in the hell did some low-life scum bag (Jose Ines Garcia Zarate) murder a woman (Kate Steinle) and then get acquited (not even charged with manslaughter)?
How did that happen?

Well, perhaps one only needs to consider what state that happened in: California, where the Attorney General (Xavier Becerra) threatens fines and prosecution of anyone helping the federal government to enforce illegal immigration laws. And that is despite the fact that Jose Ines Garcia Zarate admitted to shooting Kate Steinle !?!

j2t2 wrote: Wow it’s all about the dems getting votes! Amazing, absolutely amazing.
Yes. Exactly! The Democraps’ game-plan is obvious. Democraps know that amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants will gain millions of new Democrat voters. Also, it is obvious that Democraps do not want anything (i.e. border security, border walls, enforcement of existing immigration laws, casse chain-migration, cease the lottery, deport criminal illegal immigrants, limit abuse of visas for cheap labor, etcl, etc., etc.) that hinders the flood of illegal immigrants into the U.S. The Repugnicans are culpable too, because they like the cheap labor, but they are starting to recognize that the problem has grown so large that Democraps can actually change the electorate via pandering and promises of amnesty and citizenship which will give the Democraps tens of millions of new Democrat voters.

I don’t buy the fake compassion for illegal immigrants (especially for criminal immigrants).
IF that compassion was geniue, there would be no reason for Democraps to simultaneously reject enforcement of existing immigration laws, border security, deportation of criminal illegal immigrants, elimination of a stupid immigration lottery, chain-migration, and other common-sense controls.

  • Where is the compassion for the victims of increased crime rates (Source: GAO-05-646R, based on a study group of 55,322 illegal aliens over a 57 year period; 29% of all incarcerated are illegal aliens) ?
  • Where is the compassion for U.S. citizens that go without healthcare and access to E.R.s and hospitals which are over-flowing with illegal aliens (of which many don’t pay)? Is this fair to U.S. tax payers ?
  • Where is the compassion for the truly needy U.S. citizens that can not get help because of limited resources and 32% of illegal aliens receiving welfare instead ?
  • Where is the outrage of the greedy employers of illegal aliens ?
  • Where is the compassion for the U.S. victims and survivors of crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens (a whopping 34% of all prisoners in federal prinson are illegal aliens).
  • Where is the compassion for U.S. citizens whose lives have been changed forever by illegal aliens that spread disease ? One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”. Because illegal alien migration into the USA continues unabated for the past 20 years, we now have 16,000 new cases of incurable MDR tuberculosis in the past five years. We suffer 7,000 new cases of leprosy. We tolerate 100,000 new cases of hepatitis “A” in our society. Chagas disease, which affects 14 million South Americans and kills 50,000 annually, streams across our borders as unchecked thousands enter our society illegally. If your child goes to public school, they could be exposed, as thousands already have been.
  • Where is the compassion for the U.S. tax payers that experience a net loss of about $70 billion to $326.7 billion per year due to all the numerous problems stemming from illegal aliens?
  • Where is the compassion for Kate Steinle who was murdered by an illegal immigrant who had been deported 5 times, and was acquited by a jury in California, despite the fact that the illegal immigrant admitted to shooting Kate Steinle?
  • Many illegal aliens commit no crimes (excluding the fact that trespassing itself is illegal), but if you think illegal aliens pose no threat or burden to citizens, then please read the following.
    Regardless of crime rate statistics, these are crimes that should have never occurred.
    These are crimes that could have been prevented:

  • On 13-Nov-2005, Brian Jackson, a Dallas policeman was shot and killed by an illegal alien, Juan Lizcano. Lizcano had become drunk and went to the home of his ex-girl-friend to threaten her. As the police pursued Lizcano after he fled the woman’s home, he shot Officer Jackson, who died later in the hospital. Officer Jackson was remembered by his fellow police as someone who loved his job and always went the extra mile.
  • Then, there is Jorge Hernandez, a.k.a. Jorge Soto, who killed Min Soon Chang, an 18-year-old college freshman, in a terrible head-on wreck while Hernandez was driving drunk. He had been arrested 3 previous times for drunk driving in 3 other states, and he had been deported to Mexico 17 times! Why aren’t illegal aliens aren’t deported instantly after being arrested for drunk driving?
  • Debbie Thomas, who was the mother of three, was killed in a head-on collision on Christmas Eve 2003 when her car was struck by a car being driven in the wrong direction by illegal alien, Narciso Garcia-Jimenez. He later escaped from his hospital bed and is still at large. The car he drove had no inspection sticker and was registered to another person. When Debbie’s mom learned that her daughter’s killer survived and escaped after being treated at the hospital, she said she felt “angry, bitter and sad, all at once.”
  • In Atlanta, Georgia: Mexican Miguel Carrasco raped a female victim in front of her four year old child and two minors; California Mexican Zacarias Camacho committed lewd acts upon a child under 14; El Salvadoran Oswaldo Martinez raped, sodomized and murdered a 16 year old; MS-13 gang member Reinaldo Ramos convicted of 2nd degree sexual offense for brutal gang rape of 16 year old girl.
  • Jose Ramirez is every father’s nightmare. The illegal alien beat up a 15-year-old girl after whistling at her. He broke her nose, fractured a bone in her face and produced cuts requiring 30 stitches. The man worked in construction in Spotsylvania, Virginia, where the attack occurred, and resisted arrest to the point where police had to taser him.
  • Jose Raul Pena, earlier deported for cocaine possession, used his little daughter as a human shield in an hours-long Los Angeles shootout with police on July 10. Pena and Suzie were both killed. During the incident, Pena used a 9-millimeter Beretta pistol which had been stolen last year in a burglary in Oregon. His office at the car dealership contained a bag of cocaine and a half-drunk bottle of Tequila — consistent with the illegal Pena’s previous deportation for cocaine possession. Videotape captured images of Pena shooting at the police while holding his daughter, yet his relatives are questioning not only whether he used his daughter as a shield, but whether he was even armed at all, according to the Los Angeles Times.
  • Esmerelda Nava, age 4, was recently strangled, molested and killed by an illegal alien who had been deported in 2003. The accused killer is Cornelio Rivera Zamites, who had been residing in Gainsville, Georgia. Esmerelda went with her parents to visit the 24-year-old Zamites. At some point late Saturday night, the child’s mother realized the girl was missing. A police officer found her body early the next morning in nearby woods. An article of Zamites clothing was close by and he was gone. Zamites had been deported for driving under the influence, as well as having no license or insurance. At least his illegal status was duly noted.
  • The nation’s highways have become far more dangerous since they have been turned into smuggling thruways for criminals. Nineteen-year-old Travis Smith of Mesa, Arizona, was killed in 2002 by a carload of illegal aliens being smuggled to Pennsylvania. The accident occurred near Monticello in southeastern Utah, as the car driven by illegal alien smuggler Isidro Aranda-Flores plowed head-on into Smith’s 1966 Mustang. The smuggler apparently fell asleep at the wheel.
  • In Los Angeles (year 2004), 95% of over 1200 outstanding warrants for homicide and 67% of 17,000 fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
  • PHOENIX: Television and radio stations began running ads in the Valley last week, paid for by the Coalition United to Secure America, attributing the 45% increase in homicides and 41% increase in home invasions to illegal aliens. Phoenix Police Department reports confirm those figures and Sgt. Tony Morales believes there is no doubt that the statistics are tied to illegal aliens.
  • 12/31/2002: Six-month figures revealed a 3.3% increase in violent crime in California, including a 16% rise in homicides, over the same span in 2001.
  • In 2001, 87% of deportable aliens who received run letters later disappeared; a number that was even higher (94%) for illegal aliens from terror-sponsoring countries.
  • According to statistics by the Salt Lake City Police Department (and verified by an independent study), 80% of all drug crimes in the City are committed by illegal aliens. In Salt Lake County, the equivalent number is 50%. That’s why Congressman Cannon is on the Immigration Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. He is working to insure that interior states, like Utah, are not overlooked in the war on illegal immigration.
  • John Mullaly a former NYPD homicide detective, states 70% of the drug dealers and other criminals in Manhattan’s Washington Heights are were illegal aliens.
  • In 2004, an average of 2,000 illegal aliens stream across our borders daily. One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”
  • 01-DEC-2017: A jury found an undocumented immigrant (Jose Ines Garcia Zarate) “not guilty” in the July 2015 murder of Kate Steinle, a decision that was tainted by the debate over immigration policies. Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, 45, who had already been deported 5 times, was somehow acquitted of murder and involuntary manslaughter charges, as well as assault with a deadly weapon. And that was all despite that he (Jose Ines Garcia Zarate) admitted to shooting Kate Steinle.
  • Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 9:43 AM
    Comment #423637
    So criminal immigrants should be allowed to stay here?

    Two misdemeanors when he was a teen is cause 26 years later to deport him to a country where he doesn’t speak the language! Such high standards for others D.A.N., especially for someone like Trump. Look into the definition of moral turpitude and see if it applies here.

    Anyone who disagrees is a Nazi?

    Not necessarily Nazi’s D.A.N but someone who supports and condones purging tactics used by Nazis and now Trump to attack legal immigrants. Someone who needs to be reminded that it was wrong to attack minorities and blame then for the problems of the country then and now.

    I am not condoning Gerrymandering or voter suppression.

    Yet the repubs use these tactic to gain votes and you remain silent on these issues while blaming Dems for using illegal immigration to gain votes. For years you guys have been saying millions of illegals are voting yet haven’t offered any proof.


    Ban firearms?

    Well you are willing to stop the ems from garnering votes from immigrants. Gun rights seems to be a major vote getter for the repubs but if the Dems decide to go after the gun rights voters would you want to stop them from gaining votes? The point D. is the issue for you seems to be Dems getting votes from illegal immigrants and those that support the illegals not the illegal immigrants themselves.

    You guys I agree there is a problem with immigration. I agree that people in this country here illegally need to be dealt with. I also thing employers hiring illegals to save a few bucks need to be dealt with. But using the fear and hate tactics isn’t the answer.

    The wave of people from South and Central America along with those from Mexico was due in part to NAFTA. We didn’t deal with the unintended consequences of the NAFTA agreement at the time. We haven’t taken a hard look at immigration , both legal and illegal since then.

    Our representatives have dropped the ball for funding to get re-elected. Both sides of the aisle. We need to have a serious factual debate on the national level and move forward. The myths and misinformation doesn’t help us to come to a rational decision.

    We need to determine what is best for our country when it comes to immigration including corporate visa programs. But blaming the immigrants isn’t the answer. This Doctor I mentioned may wait for years in detention as his case is the 667,000 in line. That is wrong.

    Building a wall on the border at the expense of the taxpayers after promising Mexico would pay for it is wrong. Allowing Russian and Chinese mothers to some and stay at your resorts to give birth, president Trump while targeting those of color is wrong.


    Posted by: j2t2 at January 24, 2018 11:22 AM
    Comment #423638

    My understanding is that Graham, Flake, and Durban came up with some compromise. Problem is, it was extremely weak on enforcement, and had no chance hell of passing in the house or senate, let alone being signed by the president. Graham, and Flake are open border supporters. The democrats claiming there was a bipartisan deal isn’t even close to reality. Trump to his credit has stood his ground, and said without funding for a wall there is no DACA.

    Posted by: dbs at January 24, 2018 11:24 AM
    Comment #423639

    j2


    “I agree that people in this country here illegally need to be dealt with. I also thing employers hiring illegals to save a few bucks need to be dealt with. But using the fear and hate tactics isn’t the answer.”

    Correct, enforcing the law is the answer.

    “Building a wall on the border at the expense of the taxpayers after promising Mexico would pay for it is wrong.”

    I love this line of reasoning. First off, to take that statement literally is the height of ignorance, as if Trump ever believed mexico would literally write a check for the wall. The ability to read between the lines is key to understanding that statement.

    Posted by: dbs at January 24, 2018 11:31 AM
    Comment #423640


    j2t2 wrote: Voter suppression laws,hyper-Gerrymandering and a propaganda machine second to none isn’t enough for you guys!
    j2t2 wrote: “…a propaganda machine second to none…” ?

    Which propaganda machine are you referring to?
    ALL of the MSM (Main Stream Media) News stations are full of lots of propaganda.
    MSNBC is by far the worst (in my opinion).
    FOX News is not the worst, but they have an obvious right-leaning bias.
    I watch all of the news stations, and they all tell lies and have an obvious bias to the left or right.
    Hence, the well deserved nickname for many news stations: FAKE NEWS

    Americans are justified to distrust the MSM.
    The MSM is losing the trust of many Americans.

    However, there are many of major left-leaning MSM news stations, but only a few major right-leaning MSM news stations.
    There are FAR, FAR, FAR MORE left-leaning MSM news stations.

    So, it seems like a weak argument IF you are complaining about FOX NEWS as being “… a propaganda machine second to none…
    Rural America is right-leaning (mostly).
    Urban America is left-leaning (mostly).
    Why is that?
    What is really going on?
    What is the real agenda behind the desire for “open borders”?

    j2t2 wrote: Welcome to Trumps America, Zeig Heil.
    Believing that existing immigration laws should be enforced does not make a person a Nazi. Believing Democraps have an agenda to change the electorate via decades of promises of amnesty and citizenship (while simultaneously rejecting all other controls and enforcement of illegal immigration) does not make a person a Nazi. Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 11:31 AM
    Comment #423642
    j2t2 wrote: Two misdemeanors when he was a teen is cause 26 years later to deport him to a country where he doesn’t speak the language! Such high standards for others D.A.N., especially for someone like Trump.
    I already said I.C.E. should focus on dangerous criminals first. I personally would not waste any time on trying to deport Lukasz Niec.
    j2t2 wrote: Look into the definition of moral turpitude and see if it applies here.
    I know what turpitude means (wickedness and depravity). Yes, it is not the best use of time for I.C.E. to be focusing on Lukasz Niec after 26 years of committing 2 misdemeanor crimes.
    j2t2 wrote: Yet the repubs use these tactic to gain votes and you remain silent on these issues while blaming Dems for using illegal immigration to gain votes. For years you guys have been saying millions of illegals are voting yet haven’t offered any proof.
    Nonsense. That is a weak argument, because I do not condone Gerrymandering or voter suppression. I have written in the past about Gerrymandering abuses. Besides, BOTH democraps and repugnicans engage in Gerrymandering and voter fraud and suppression. Some illegal aliens even vote (illegally).
    j2t2 wrote: Well you are willing to stop the [d]ems from garnering votes from immigrants. Gun rights seems to be a major vote getter for the repubs but if the Dems decide to go after the gun rights voters would you want to stop them from gaining votes? The point D. is the issue for you seems to be Dems getting votes from illegal immigrants and those that support the illegals not the illegal immigrants themselves.
    So you don’t support the 2nd Amendment? You think the supporting the 2nd is only a “vote getter”? You seem to have a disdain for the 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms)? That’s another weak argument. . Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 11:51 AM
    Comment #423643
    j2t2 wrote: Building a wall on the border at the expense of the taxpayers after promising Mexico would pay for it is wrong.
    Mexico will pay for it one way or another (i.e. indirectly), since illegal immigrants are sending billions of dollars back to their countries of origin.
    dbs wrote: The ability to read between the lines is key to understanding that statement [i.e. Mexico will pay for the wall].
    Exactly. Most Americans are willing to pay for the wall themselves. Most Americans get it. However, there are an alarming number of Americans that don’t get it.

    Besides, $13 -to- $18 Billion is a drop in the bucket compared to almost $2 Billion per day in interest on the $20 Trillion national debt. It would be nice to see money spent on something of substance for a change.

    People say walls don’t work, but they do.

    Bill Clinton and Hillary both claimed to support a wall at one time, until they both figured out that would not help their clandestine agenda to change the electorate.

    So, we seem to agree that illegal immigration should be addressed, and that wasting time on deporting Lukasz Niec is a waste of time, Gerrymandering is wrong, voter suppression is wrong, etc.

    Good. But trying to portray others as Nazis because they recognize the Democraps agenda to change the electorate is hyperbole that is not gonna work, and actually weakens your arguments.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 12:11 PM
    Comment #423650


    d.a.n, while we blog away at what might be done about getting control of immigration, I’m just thinking of where this country would be had Hillary and he lefties come to power. Approximately half the electorate at this time don’t give a darn about any law they don’t like. Here we are, a year into Trump’’s reign and we still have sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, expending taxpayer dollars to support illegal aliens, and so on. We are weeks away from exposing the worst treasonous conspiracy this country has ever known. The dim’s seem to be relishing the effort to take down a sitting President. At what point does the term ‘anarchy’ apply? Where would we be if the dim’s had a 3 or 4 term rum in controlling gov’t? Causes one to break out in a cold sweat.

    But, but … . here we are, blogging away as if everything is just ‘ok’. Trump has the upper hand on this immigration thing. I would think we will get a wall and do away with chain and lottery immigration policies I would think Trump will allow the DACA folks to remain but won’t give them citizenship or voting rights.

    Meanwhile, the economic recovery is on fire, stockmarket thru the roof, companies relocating to the US brining plants and jobs, gangs being wrapped up, criminals going to jail at a fast pace, big tax cuts for most folks, and so on … Talking heads are already talking about a recession coming. How great is that?

    Wasn’t it just yesterday that ‘Trump can’t go do Davos because he is so hated by the elites that will be attending’? Today, they can’t wait for him to arrive and kiss his ass where the sun don’t shine.. .

    I mean, if people will pay $4500 for a superbowl ticket they surely would pay $1 or $2k to watch Trump run the table over the next few months. Don’t know what to call it, it’s beyond entertainment. Maybe call it a ‘TrumpBowl’.

    I mean, the wind is at our backs … it will take another year or so to clear the political appointees from the Obama adamin, root out corruption amongst the intel agencies, put Mueller back in his box and get started on a wall. I predict, you read it here first, that come midterms the GOP will gain seats in the house and senate. Teddi Turner’s pockets ain’t deep enough to handle the Donald.

    Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 24, 2018 6:00 PM
    Comment #423651

    Thanks for the optimism booster Roy. I don’t believe you mentioned bringing to the Supreme Court justices that follow the Constitution and the successful appointment and confirmation of many federal judges.

    I find it too early to make my November election predictions; however, nearly every election of federal representatives is about “guns and butter”.

    President Trump has excelled at both.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 24, 2018 6:31 PM
    Comment #423653

    “In the last year, states have conducted 98 special elections for legislative seats, ranging from a U.S. Senate seat in Alabama to state House races in New Hampshire. Democrats have flipped 16 of those seats — including the race in Alabama, where Doug Jones became the first Democrat to win a Senate seat in a generation. Republicans have won only three formerly Democratic-held seats, in Louisiana, Mississippi and Massachusetts.”
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/369847-why-democrats-keep-winning-special-elections

    Unless something bad happens, like a war, “guns and butter” will not be likely to play a role in the midterms. The economy is virtually identical to what we saw under Obama. During the last year of the Obama administration 2.1 million jobs were created; under the same months for Trump. 1.9 million. We are at full employment and we have been for some time. Virtually every economic trend remains intact.

    But I do think it is fair to say that, as of the tax cuts, the GOP now owns this economy. They took an economy growing at a 2-3% rate with full employment and used debt to inject over a trillion, with most of it going to the rich, with tax cuts on the highest bracket from 39% to 37%, elimination of the estate tax, and corporate reductions from an effective rate of 18-21% down to just 9%.

    The money has nowhere to go. Interest rates are low and likely to rise, and unfavorable environment for investing in long bonds. Gold is rising- over $1350- in expectation of inflation, but gold is a non-performing asset. With no change in demand, all that money is pouring into the stock market, and it is going straight up. And as we all know, nothing can ever possibly go wrong with a that. Right?

    There is really only one issue that will certainly affect the midterms, and that is additional indictments of crooks and traitors and additional guilty pleas. Have fun with that.

    Posted by: phx8 at January 24, 2018 7:53 PM
    Comment #423654
    Roy wrote: d.a.n, while we blog away at what might be done about getting control of immigration, I’m just thinking of where this country would be had Hillary and he lefties come to power.
    One thing is for certain. The democraps (and some repugnicans) would have continued to allow millions of illegal aliens to flood across our borders. It is not yet clear whether enough republicans and non-Democrats yet understand what the democrats game-plan is yet. IF they do, they are making a huge mistake, because most new immigrants are more likely to vote for the democrats who have been pandering and promising (despicably) amnesty and citizenship for decades. Many tens of millions of new democrat voters (bribed voters; bribed with promises of amnesty and citizenship) can drastically change the political landscape. IF republicans haven’t figured this out yet, then they might as well start planning the next career or retirement.

    Again, there are too many people that fall into these two selfish extremes:

    • Extreme #1: One extreme wants regressive taxation, unfettered capitalism, little (if any) government regulations, use wealth to influence government that is FOR-SALE; and wants the freedom to explore and wallow in almost every manifestation of unchecked greed.
    • Extreme #2: The other extreme wants a nanny-state to take care of them from cradle-to-grave; who believe the solution to problems is more government; where citizens become increasingly dependent on the government; with massive cradle-to-grave government programs which are usually severely mismanaged and wasteful; a nanny-state that nurtures a sense-of-entitlement and dependency on government; who attempt to disguise their envy and jealousy as demands for equality; wants to grow government ever larger (despite the already current nightmare proportions); rewards failure and laziness; vilifies success; plays the race card at every chance; despicably attempts to change the electorate via promises of amnesty and citizenship for illegal immigrants; and perpetuates the myth that we can somehow all live at the expense of everyone else.

    Both extremes are bad, but Extreme #2 is a larger group of people, and it is growing.

    Roy wrote: At what point does the term ‘anarchy’ apply?
    Now. It applies now, since:
    • California is severely over-run by illegal immigrants. The Attorney General of California is threatening to prosecute and fine any employers or anyone helping the federal govrernment enforce existing immigration laws.
    • The governor of Washington state is forgidding the police to help enforce federal immigation laws. As a result, the state and local police are repeatedly releasing criminal illegal immigrants (such as a low-life murderer named Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, who murdered Kate Steinle, and he was already guilty of several felonies, and he had been deported 5 times).
    • Some other states are refusing to abide by federal laws; states with sanctuary cities; many that have high crime rates due to massive illegal immigration;

    Democraps will tell you that is only anectdotal evidence. That’s bullsh!+.
    I can list here thousands of victims of crimes against them by illegal aliens if necessary.
    This doesn’t mean all illegal immigrants are criminals.
    But that is what you will be accused of doing if you dare point out these crimes.
    You will be accused of demonizing all immigrants.
    You will be called a racist.
    You will be called a xenophobe.
    They have lots of stupid excuses … all because (mostly) of the one thing they fear: it will hinder their clandestine plan to open borders and gain control by changing the electorate (with millions of illegal aliens being (bribed) promised amnesty or citizenship; and eventually receiving amnesty and citizenship, and far outnumbering the other political parties).

    Roy wrote: I mean, the wind is at our backs …
    There have been many good developments.
    • Supreme court (Neil Gorsuch) and federal court appointments;
    • Lowering corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% (i.e. closer to the global average of about 20%), which is bringing some jobs back to the U.S.;
    • The push to secure the borders, and enforce existing immigration laws;
    • Tax cuts for most workers;
    • Highlighting the dishonesty of the Main Stream Media (mostly left leaning);
    • roll-back and restrictions on many unnecessary regulations;
    • improved secuity via travel bans from nations with terrorists;
    • rejecting the Trans-Pacific partnetship; working for FAIR TRADE;
    • roll-back on many of Obama’s effed up policies;
    • illegal immigration is down 67% !
    • the manufacturing index is up to a 33 year high;
    • the markets are up, because their is a new optimism, because of common-sense policies;
    • NATO announced Allied spending is up $10 Billion because of Donald Trump;
    • helped pass more legislation in less time than most presidents in U.S. history;
    • rebuilding the military;
    • working to cut funding from sanctuary cities and states;
    • and, the decimation of I.S.I.S. ;

    I truly hope it continues.
    I truly hope it there is no resting on laurels.
    Trump has (so far) accomplished far, far more than I ever thought possible.
    Heck, I didn’t even think he could get elected (based on FAKE polls and news from Main Stream Media news stations).
    And, I truly hope Trump has not broken any laws that will end his presidency.

    Of course, the IN-PARTY and the OUT-PARTY often hate each other, and each hate it when thier foe looks good (i.e. succeeds).
    But many democraps have sunk to new lows. Their hate and violence has reached new lows, because too many seem to love their PARTY more than their country.
    And the democraps are also terrified that people are catching on to their strategy, which rejects anything that may hinder their plans to change the electorate via “open borders” via a flood of illegal immigrants who will hopefully acquire amnesty, and vote Democrat.

    We must not let that happen, no matter how much the repugnicans love cheap labor.
    IT is despicable to pit U.S. citizens and illegal immigrants against each other for votes and profits from cheap labor.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 24, 2018 9:46 PM
    Comment #423655
    There is really only one issue that will certainly affect the midterms, and that is additional indictments of crooks and traitors and additional guilty pleas. Have fun with that. Posted by: phx8 at January 24, 2018 7:53 PM

    I’m sure Mueller will attempt to get Dumpty to resign. Pence accepted the VP spot because he wants to be POTUS. He’s not going to want to wait to run against Jeff Flake or someone else. Pressure could be applied in several ways. More info keeps coming out. Now the inauguration is being looked into, a slush fund never accounted, and plenty of russians in attendance, including Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin from the T Tower meeting, supporting the candidate they helped.

    The trajectory of the right wing comes from Nixon, another crook. They’re still fascinated with China, and have compromised the national interest for private financial gain. They have no interest in maintaining our form of government. They want a government where corporations are free from all regulations, including immigration ones, which their supporters are too stupid to understand. The threats against immigrants are meant to keep workers in line. They’re not going to deport the people they need, just the ones who’ve gotten educations that they don’t need.

    Posted by: ohrealy at January 24, 2018 10:28 PM
    Comment #423656
    ohrealy wrote: I’m sure Mueller will attempt to get Dumpty to resign.
    Understandable, IF Trump is guilty of crimes. However, I have not yet seen evidence of that.
    ohrealy wrote: Now the inauguration is being looked into, a slush fund never accounted, and plenty of russians in attendance, including Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin from the T Tower meeting, supporting the candidate they helped.
    The truth should be tenaciously sought-after. However, the worst penalties for Trump donating $25K to a political organization that supported a Florida attorney general (who failed to report it) is a fine of $2,500 by the IRS, and probably the return of the donation.
    ohrealy wrote: The trajectory of the right wing comes from Nixon, another crook.
    There is, and never has been a shortage of crooks in both parties. IF laws have been broken, the guilty should suffer the consequences.
    ohrealy wrote: They [Republicans?] have no interest in maintaining our form of government. They want a government where corporations are free from all regulations, including immigration ones, which their supporters are too stupid to understand.
    HHHMMMmmm … both parties have done a terrible (despicable, actually) job of enforcing immigration laws, because Democrats see the potential for changing the electorate via millions of new Democrat voters via illegal immigrants eventually acquiring amnesty and citizenship. And Republicans and Democrats both like the cheap labor. So, for many decades, little was done to stop illegal immigration. Both parties have failed to do the most simple thing to stop illegal immigration, which is to require eVerify (or anything better), and prosecute the greedy employers who knowingly violate the law by hiring illegal immigrants.
    ohrealy wrote: The threats against immigrants are meant to keep workers in line.
    Threats? Of deportation?
    ohrealy wrote: They’re not going to deport the people they need, …
    That has been true for decades. After President Reagan’s amnesty of 1986, there were no controls to stop the flood of illegal immigrants into the U.S., because Democrats want the votes and cheap labor, and Republicans want the cheap labor.
    ohrealy wrote: They’re not going to deport the people they need, just the ones who’ve gotten educations that they don’t need.
    Things have changed. Today, what cannot be done via outsourcing is accomplished by importing massive numbers of immigrants via H-1B visas and green-cards, etc. Information Technology in the U.S. has been taken over by millions of VISA workers and immigrants from other countries. Greedy corporations say they can’t find Americans to take these jobs, but it is a lie. The fact is, the greedy employers pay the VISA workers much less. The greedy employers also abuse the VISA programs. Here are 5 examples of H-1B visa program abuses.

    I know a guy who was looking for a job. He said that all but one of five job interviews was by H-1B or immigrant workers from India. He said he could barely understand their English. They didn’t hire him. They hired an Indian instead (who he also knew), even though the Indian could barely speak English, had very little computer programming experience, and had no experience for the position they hired the Indian to do (i.e. Agile Scrum Master). I have observed this happening for many years. In some IT departments, most of the workers are Indian, and they are all communicating in Hindi (not English). Hence, since their English is so bad, they prefer to hire people that also speak Hindi. It is a form of discrimination against non-Indian (or non-Hindi speaking) candidates. But the corporations don’t care about anything but profits and cheap labor. There are some despicable law firms that also teach corporations how NOT to hire American citizens.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 12:02 AM
    Comment #423684
    Which propaganda machine are you referring to?

    The conservative propaganda machine D.A.N of which Faux News is certainly a part of. After looking at some of your pots I would suggest you are part of the propaganda machine as you use many ofd the talking points that are exaggerated statements at the last.

    ALL of the MSM (Main Stream Media) News stations are full of lots of propaganda.

    I was thinking of the late 20th century definition of propaganda not the older definition.

    “In the twentieth century, the term propaganda has been associated with a manipulative approach, but propaganda historically was a neutral descriptive term.”

    MSNBC is by far the worst (in my opinion).

    MSNBC has a bit of a bias but they are much more factual than Faux or any of the conservative media outlets. But like Faux they have used exaggeration as well. The difference between the two is the intentional use of non-factual information, and Faux is the champion when it comes to myths.

    FOX News is not the worst, but they have an obvious right-leaning bias.

    Of the MSM Faux is by far the most biased and their audience is the most misinformed. I would suggest it is a case of cognitive dissonance or partisan blinders that keeps you from being able to see this.

    I watch all of the news stations, and they all tell lies and have an obvious bias to the left or right. Hence, the well deserved nickname for many news stations: FAKE NEWS

    Lies may be a stretch for most of the major outlets, as they do make corrections when the are found wanting,especially PBS/NPR but they aren’t the real fake news they are the Trump version of Fake news which is fake. When you associate the corporate media with fake news you allow the real fake news outlets to hide.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 25, 2018 12:48 PM
    Comment #423685
    Americans are justified to distrust the MSM.

    I would agree the American public is justified to distrust and be disgusted with the corporate media. They are not interested in truth or journalism for that matter. These outlets just want audience share and within certain boundaries we only get some of the news, But that is our fault isn’t it? It is after all what we watch that they feed us.

    The MSM is losing the trust of many Americans.

    This includes the many many many conservative outlets that are on the internet as well D.A.N. The difference is these smaller outlets use so many manipulative tricks we still get misled. IMHO the MSM includes these outlets despite you guys wanting to tag just the big three for being biased.

    Wow D.a.n you are killing me with volume, I can’t keep up. What do you do hire a bunch of Russians or bots? That is what I feel like when I see you loading up so may exaggerations, myths and such on one post.

    Lets look at your “between the lines” myth currently being used to save conservative face. It isn’t what he said nor what he implied prior to election. It’s that simple.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37241284

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 25, 2018 1:15 PM
    Comment #423686

    “The money has nowhere.”

    Really phx8. Guess you missed the announcements by companies planning new equipment and plants in America.

    I watched the economic forum meeting with President Trump today from Davos. These leaders of the world’s largest companies all announced major investment in the US. They fell all over themselves praising President Trump and his economic policies.

    Why bother repeating all the tired old lies about the Obama economy phx8. WE DON’T CARE.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 25, 2018 2:52 PM
    Comment #423687
    j2t2 wrote: The conservative propaganda machine D.A.N of which Faux News is certainly a part of.
    That’s what I thought, but I am not a mind reader.
    j2t2 wrote: After looking at some of your pots I would suggest you are part of the propaganda machine as you use many of the talking points that are exaggerated statements at the last.
    I would say the very same thing about your j2t2 posts in this thread. You think I am right-wing extremist, and I think you definitely lean left (though I will not sink so low to call you an extremist and part of the MSNBC propaganda machine). We’ll just have to agree that we disagree.
    j2t2 wrote: MSNBC has a bit of a bias but they are much more factual than Faux or any of the conservative media outlets.
    Not in my opinion.
    j2t2 wrote: The difference between the two [Fox News and MSNBC] is the intentional use of non-factual information, and Faux is the champion when it comes to myths.
    Again, we will have to agree to disagree. FOX News is not the worst.
    j2t2 wrote: Of the MSM Faux is by far the most biased and their audience is the most misinformed. I would suggest it is a case of cognitive dissonance or partisan blinders that keeps you from being able to see this.
    Again, we will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, none of the MSM new stations can be be trusted, but MSNBC is the worst (in my opinion).
    j2t2 wrote: Lies may be a stretch for most of the major outlets, …
    No, I don’t think so. All of them are pushing their bias and propaganda. MSNBC’s most obvious, non-stop bias is it’s hatred of Republicans and Trump, and wallowing in the petty, circular partisan warefare.
    j2t2 wrote: they do make corrections when the are found wanting, especially PBS/NPR but they aren’t the real fake news they are the Trump version of Fake news which is fake. When you associate the corporate media with fake news you allow the real fake news outlets to hide.
    Yes, technically, that is correct perhaps by the strictist definition of “FAKE NEWS”, but the point is that there are a lot a crazy conspiracy theories and partisan warfare from both of the left and right MSM news stations, and a lot of it has not yet been proven, despite allo sorts of investigations.
    j2t2 wrote: I would agree the American public is justified to distrust and be disgusted with the corporate media. They are not interested in truth or journalism for that matter.
    I think a lot of people are getting brain-washed by the MSM station they prefer. They should watch all of the stations to see how diametrically opposed they are in their agendas, conspiracty theories, propaganda, and wallowing in the partisan warefare.
    j2t2 wrote: These outlets just want audience share and within certain boundaries we only get some of the news, But that is our fault isn’t it? It is after all what we watch that they feed us.
    Yes, we should be objective, and do research, and not be too quick to believe the false stories the MSM are pushing (always taking what they report wiht a grain of salt, until all of the evidence is out).
    j2t2 wrote: This includes the many many many conservative outlets that are on the internet as well D.A.N. The difference is these smaller outlets use so many manipulative tricks we still get misled. IMHO the MSM includes these outlets despite you guys wanting to tag just the big three for being biased.
    I know there is a lot of misleading propaganda, and I have been fooled by them a few times (as you may recall). It is embarrassing. A lot of research is required. Not only to prove a point, but to see and weight the opposing arguments.

    As for the numbers of left-leaning to right-leaning, it seems to me that there are far more left-leaning news stations and MSM than right-leaning news stations. I have not researched that, but among the MSM stations (ABC, Al Jazeera, BBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, The New Yorker, Huffington, Washington Post, Politico, PBS, New York Times, Colbert, NPR, USA Today, FOX NEWS, & Drudge), Breitbart, FOX NEWS and Drudge are the only right-leaning stations. There are some commentary personalities on all of them that are a bit more extremist.

    j2t2 wrote: Wow D.a.n you are killing me with volume, I can’t keep up. What do you do hire a bunch of Russians or bots?
    I am a software/electrical engineer, so I type very fast. I never even have to look at the keyboard.
    j2t2 wrote: That is what I feel like when I see you loading up so many exaggerations, myths and such on one post.
    Not true. Please point out the exact lines in this thread that are exaggerations and myths. I will be happy to provide supporting evidence, and IF I can’t, I’ll admit it is wrong.
    j2t2 wrote: Lets look at your “between the lines” myth currently being used to save conservative face. It isn’t what he said nor what he implied prior to election. It’s that simple.
    That’s not my myth, and I don’t care about saving any conservative face, nor care about defending Trump. In fact, I thought from the very beginning that it was a foolish thing to say (i.e. “Mexico will pay for the wall”). It was not 100% clear to me what he really meant by “Mexico will pay for the wall”, but I didn’t care, because I was focusing more on the hope that someone may finally secure the borders. I am not, and do not want to defend any of Trump’s foolish statements and actions, and I did not vote for Trump or Hillary (I voted for the president of the Constitution Party). But, I am not a rabid Trump hater, so I am able to recognize the good things that his administration has accomplished, or trying to accomplish. It doesn’t mean people are exaggerating, pushing myths, nor does it make people right-wing extremists only because they feel the same way.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 2:58 PM
    Comment #423688

    d.a.n.,
    Have to agree with j2ts on this one. A lot of your bullet points look like badly outdated talking points from 2001 and 2002. Others, like saying 33% of federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, is so ludicrous, I really can’t address the point politely. Arresting people who have done nothing wrong other than being illegal immigrants, and then complaining because prisons are full of people who are illegal immigrants, is ridiculous.

    Most of it looks like thinly veiled white nationalism. That is because the argument against immigration often relies on appealing to hatred of foreigners, hatred of the other, drawing artificial differences between human beings and then denouncing the others for being different, or lazy, or poor, or criminal, or inferior.

    There is a very real difference between legitimate journalism and the ethical standards followed by the MSM and the far right echo machine. A good example is the #releasethememo controversy and the roles of FOX, Hannity, far right Trump supporters like Nunes, and Russian bots promoting a story intended to harm the United States.

    RF,
    Poor thing. So busy cheerleading you can’t be bothered with the score.

    “Guess you missed the announcements by companies planning new equipment and plants in America.”

    Other are laying off.

    The results of going into debt + $1 trillion and pouring it into corporations and the richest of the rich are already showing in a stock market shooting through the roof.

    We are already at full employment. That means wages will increase as competition for employees increases. The question is this: will goods and services increase at the same rate, or will rising wages be mostly inflationary. With companies already awash in cash and declaring record earnings, the likely outcome is obvious.

    Meanwhile, Mnuchin and Trump are talking down the dollar. They want a weak dollar. A strong dollar makes exports expensive and imports cheap. A weak dollar does the opposite. That means another inflationary factor is being introduced- expensive imports.

    Protectionist actions like the ones taken against solar and washing machines might help, as long as the victims of our protectionism do nothing in return.

    Unfortunately, we’re putting ourselves on an economic island among the world’s economies. We withdrew from TPP, but the other 11 countries went through with it. Now they all have privileged access to markets in Japan.

    We do not.

    They will not be taking protectionist measures against one another. We are already taking protectionist actions against them. Take a wild guess on how that will work out.

    Posted by: phx8 at January 25, 2018 3:35 PM
    Comment #423689

    One can get a glimpse into the screwy mindset of a Liberal/Progressive when they refer to China and South Korea as “victims” because President Trump has brought attention to their totally unfair and outrageous trade policies.

    Does phx8 know, or even care, about American workers getting shafted by foreign governments? Obama knew, but didn’t care.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 25, 2018 4:08 PM
    Comment #423690
    phx8 wrote: d.a.n., Have to agree with j2ts on this one. A lot of your bullet points look like badly outdated talking points from 2001 and 2002. Others, like saying 33% of federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, is so ludicrous, I really can’t address the point politely. Arresting people who have done nothing wrong other than being illegal immigrants, and then complaining because prisons are full of people who are illegal immigrants, is ridiculous.
    The focus is only on criminals illegal immigrants (aside from being in the U.S. illegally), so your point is more false nonsense. See the GAO reports below for evidence.
    phx8 wrote: Most of it looks like thinly veiled white nationalism. That is because the argument against immigration often relies on appealing to hatred of foreigners, hatred of the other, drawing artificial differences between human beings and then denouncing the others for being different, or lazy, or poor, or criminal, or inferior.
    More nonsense. Here come the usual claims of racism, xenophobia, and other excuses, eh?

    Please see the following (the numbers vary, but they are high (from 25% up to 34% in some years):
    www.numbersusa.org/pages/incarcerated-illegal-aliens-0
    www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-187
    www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf
    www.gao.gov/assets/100/93090.pdf
    www.gao.gov/assets/100/93167.pdf
    www.ussc.gov/research/quick-facts
    www.ice.gov/declined-detainer-outcome-report
    www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

    I suppose the GAO could be lying eh? I doubt it. It’s probably actually worse.

    Since no one keeps good records on the crime statistics, it could be worse?
    Neverthelese, there is crime by illegal immigrants.
    Not by most illegal immigrants, but any crime by illegal immigrants is totally avoidable by enforcing existing immigration laws (which, unfortunately, I doubt that will every happen).
    Especially for those that have already commited many felonies, have already been deported many times, and went on to murder someone.

    phx8 wrote: There is a very real difference between legitimate journalism and the ethical standards followed by the MSM and the far right echo machine. A good example is the #releasethememo controversy and the roles of FOX, Hannity, far right Trump supporters like Nunes, and Russian bots promoting a story intended to harm the United States.
    And MSNBC’s Russia Collusion conspiracy theories too. I’ve seen no evidence yet from eihter MSM news station to support any of those claims. Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 4:27 PM
    Comment #423691

    By the way, no illegal immigrants are imprisoned in federal prison for only being in the U.S. illegally, because that is only a misdemeanor (for the first offense).

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 4:29 PM
    Comment #423692

    Any day now, any day now I shall be released…..

    D.A.N Faux News and the conservative MSM or perhaps CPM (conservative propaganda machine) have been telling us of the “deep state” and the Nunes fabrication for weeks now. Conservatives have been giddy with excitement over the release of the document that will exonerate Trump and his gang. It was to be released for several weeks now these conservative believers were told, by these media outlets that went as far as to declare war on the deep state and, and yet we are still singing the same old song.

    The only thing holding it back is the repubs on the committee. MSNBC has been reporting on this as well. Only they didn’t go off the deep end into protectTrumpville. They called this out as a ploy and warned Nunes has been warned by the DOJ over the nonsense.

    Yet you will have me believe MSNBC is not head over heels better at reporting facts and actual news than Faux and the conservative media! Even the opinionators at MSNBC are much more factual than Faux opinionators.

    Oh unless we have to wait until he** freezes over for this document to be released, cause we have found out the “deep state” consists of two agents who perceive Trump to be a loser, working on a case that includes Trump.

    I wonder how many cops in how many cities states countries have disliked a person they were investigating. Just think if we applied the “Trump standard” to the rest of the country. Cops would have to “have voted” for them to work on their case. Or maybe they would have to swipe right on tinder to be allowed to work on the case.


    But ….but…but… j2 you say this is just one instance where things are a bit murky. So…

    http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2017/11/10_conspiracy_theories_that_tu.html

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 25, 2018 4:51 PM
    Comment #423696
    That’s not my myth,

    I didn’t mean to imply you invented it but you did repeat the talking point D.A.N. But it is a myth and that is the problem. Trump wants to run up the debt for a wall! After claiming Mexico would pay for the wall!

    You wonder about the Zeig Heil and claim I’m calling someone a Nazi but it is this type of authoritarianism I am addressing D. The people of Germany, a lot of good people fell for this type of blaming those different from us and look where it lead, they were Zeig Heiling to a dictator a few year later.

    Just like the Russia building the wall around Berlin, Trump wants to wall off America. A wall for f**ksakes. We are better than that.

    BY your own admission illegal immigration is down 67% yet conservatives want to build a wall between us and Mexico on the taxpayers credit card, I mean really how much sense does that make even if we weren’t in debt?

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 25, 2018 6:47 PM
    Comment #423697


    j2t2 wrote: D.A.N Faux News and the conservative MSM or perhaps CPM (conservative propaganda machine) have been telling us of the “deep state” and the Nunes fabrication for weeks now. Conservatives have been giddy with excitement over the release of the document that will exonerate Trump and his gang. It was to be released for several weeks now these conservative believers were told, by these media outlets that went as far as to declare war on the deep state and, and yet we are still singing the same old song.

    j2t2, you are preaching to the quire.

    I am not yet convinced about FOX NEWS’ conspiracies against Trump, and I am not yet convinced about MSNBC’s conspiracies about Russia/Trump Collusion.
    I have not yet seen convincing evidence of major law violations yet.
    Even if someone broke the law, I doubt anyone will ever serve prison time for it.

    j2t2 wrote: The only thing holding it back is the repubs on the committee. MSNBC has been reporting on this as well. Only they didn’t go off the deep end into protect Trumpville. They called this out as a ploy and warned Nunes has been warned by the DOJ over the nonsense.
    HHhmmmmm … from what I see, MSNBC is going off the deep end daily.
    j2t2 wrote: Yet you will have me believe MSNBC is not head over heels better at reporting facts and actual news than Faux and the conservative media!
    Nope. I disagree. In my opinion, MSNBC delivers more opinion than just the facts, and it is ALWAYS about hating Trump. The hate is palpable.
    j2t2 wrote: Even the opinionators at MSNBC are much more factual than Faux opinionators.
    I completely disagree. In my opinion, MSNBC is worse, because they are blinded by hate. The overlook the violence, hate, vitriol from the left, which is why I often say that the left have reached new lows.
    j2t2 wrote: Oh unless we have to wait until he** freezes over for this document to be released, cause we have found out the “deep state” consists of two agents who perceive Trump to be a loser, working on a case that includes Trump.
    Again, I don’t think much of these conspiracy theories on both sides (i.e. (a)the left’s Russia Collusion, and (b)the FBI and deep state against Trump). Not until I see solid evidence, that should land someone in prison.
    j2t2 wrote: I wonder how many cops in how many cities states countries have disliked a person they were investigating. Just think if we applied the “Trump standard” to the rest of the country. Cops would have to “have voted” for them to work on their case. Or maybe they would have to swipe right on tinder to be allowed to work on the case.
    Please. That’s weak. Where is the proof for illegal and punishable crimes? It may be in bad taste, but how is that a crime?
    j2t2 wrote: But ….but…but… j2 you say this is just one instance where things are a bit murky. So…… www.oregonlive.com/trending/2017/11/10_conspiracy_theories_that_tu.html
    Wrong. I am not taking sides on these conspiracy theories until the whole truth comes out. So far, I don’t see convincing evidence of these conspiracy theories by MSNBC or FOX NEWS. You are working too hard to portray me as a right-extremist. It’s not working.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 6:50 PM
    Comment #423698

    “Just like the Russia building the wall around Berlin, Trump wants to wall off America.”

    Many thanks j2t2. Your fractured history can be used to encourage children to seek the truth and not follow a spin- meister. It is embarrassing to read such a comment by an adult.

    Perhaps j2t2 can share his vision of whom we are trying to prevent leaving the country.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 25, 2018 6:54 PM
    Comment #423699
    j2t2 wrote: I didn’t mean to imply you invented it but you did repeat the talking point D.A.N. But it is a myth and that is the problem. Trump wants to run up the debt for a wall! After claiming Mexico would pay for the wall!
    As I already wrote above, $13-to-$18 Billion for a wall is miniscule compared to the near $2 Billion per day for the interest on the debt. Also, it is always facsinating how the OUT-PARTY always pretends to care about the national debt. Please. Obama set a new record when it comes to more than doubling the Nationl Debt from $9 Trillion to $20 Trillion.
    j2t2 wrote: You wonder about the Zeig Heil and claim I’m calling someone a Nazi but it is this type of authoritarianism I am addressing D. The people of Germany, a lot of good people fell for this type of blaming those different from us and look where it lead, they were Zeig Heiling to a dictator a few year later.
    Wow. So, where are the concentration camps. Only FDR (a democrat) ever sent a people (Japanese Americans) to camps. Seriously? Another weak argument. You are grasping at straws.
    j2t2 wrote: Just like the Russia building the wall around Berlin, Trump wants to wall off America. A wall for f**ksakes. We are better than that.
    Nonsense. The Berlin wall was to keep people in. The U.S. border security is to keep out illegal immigrants. Duh!!!
    j2t2 wrote: BY your own admission illegal immigration is down 67% yet conservatives want to build a wall between us and Mexico on the taxpayers credit card, I mean really how much sense does that make even if we weren’t in debt?
    Please. Again, $13-to-$18 billion on the wall is miniscule. It is worth the cost. You refuse to acknowledge the severity of the problem, and the net losses cause by illegal immigration.

    Did it EVER occur to you that you may be wrong?

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 7:02 PM
    Comment #423700

    It seems to me the problem is all those wealthy Russian and Chinese mother’s to be flying in to Trumps resorts and having their babies here. Perhaps we can use Trumplogic and put big nets up all over the country to keep those planes from landing. Could probably get China and Russia to pay for that. Wouldn’t cost anymore than the wall, I’ll bet.

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 25, 2018 7:05 PM
    Comment #423701

    Yikes…j2t2’s immigration comments are becoming certifiable as insane.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 25, 2018 7:07 PM
    Comment #423702

    j2t2, I don’t think you are a bad person. We have a major philosophical difference of opinion. You are definitely leftist. You think I am a right-wing extremist. However, I only want what is best for the U.S.A. I think you do too. However, do not let yourself be controlled by the Democrap and Repugnican parties. They only care about control. Think about the nation, and your children, and your grand children.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 25, 2018 7:23 PM
    Comment #423703

    “Think about the nation, and your children, and your grand children.”

    Of course you are correct d.a.n. Have you any evidence of the Left making such considerations?

    Posted by: Royal Flush at January 25, 2018 7:27 PM
    Comment #423704

    I don’t know what that means, Royal Flush.

    Posted by: Weary Willie at January 25, 2018 9:58 PM
    Comment #423705

    OK, I get it now. Does the left consider our offspring..?

    Good question.

    Posted by: Weary Willie at January 25, 2018 10:00 PM
    Comment #423706

    The left wants to buy all the videos and dvds and books and magazines and put them in a library and provide free access to all of them to the public.
    Book stores have been banished to the internet. BlockBuster disappeared. Walmart makes you dig in a basket for videos. Why wouldn’t you go to the Public Library and “rent” your favorite video or book for free?

    Posted by: Weary Willie at January 25, 2018 10:35 PM
    Comment #423730
    Yikes…j2t2’s immigration comments are becoming certifiable as insane.

    Tell me about it Royal that Trump logic is just insane isn’t it.

    Wrong. I am not taking sides on these conspiracy theories until the whole truth comes out. So far, I don’t see convincing evidence of these conspiracy theories by MSNBC or FOX NEWS.

    Now that is weak D.A.N lumping these two together when we all know Faux has been much more active in the start up of rumors that lead to no where, meanwhile it wasn’t MSNBC that started the Russian collusion investigation.

    Instead of responding to each and every claim you make D, I will say in general your argument is about hate and you think it is MSNBC doing the hating. You disregard so much from Faux to make this argument and it is an argument built on sand. No foundation just a make beleive one sided hate.


    You are working too hard to portray me as a right-extremist. It’s not working.

    Wow such a silly strawman D.A.N. I haven’t spent a word claiming you were anything.

    Your defense of the paltry 18 billion for the wall is amusing and the twisted logic you use is sad. Trump is asking for a down payment of 25 billion BTW. For what? a wall…where… how long…. no one knows. But hey give us the money run the debt up even more then we can blame Obama for the economic collapse and the spending/tax cuts to stabilize the collapse and claim that anyone who complains has a weak argument.

    A far cry from Mexico will pay for it. But I guess you think another 25 billion on the taxpayers credit card for a wall despite such a decline in the number of illegals immigrating here is wise. I don’t.

    To top it off you then finish with the “until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election” blurb! Do you actually believe with Trumps track record the 25 billion isn’t corruption.

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 26, 2018 11:19 AM
    Comment #423731

    D.A.N, I don’t think you are an extremist, just as I don’t think most of the guys commenting here are extremist. Some of them some of the time express extremist viewpoints, some defend extremist. Your comments at times may be extremist just as you think my comments are at times. In fact What I have consistently said is conservatives remind me of the good and decent people in Germany of the ‘20’s and 30’s who were led down the wrong path.

    Trump is one that seems to consistently defends extremist. But his positions are dictated by others most of the time, he isn’t political savvy enough to have his own positions on issues. That is why he seems to be the bull in the china shop. Why he switches back and forth so often. Why he appears to be an idiot on so many issues IMHO. Why I worry he could lead so many otherwise decent people down the wrong path.

    On the issue of illegal immigration I agree and have said so that we must do something to curb it. I disagree (in the long run) how much you claim we spend as a country on illegal immigration is accurate as we also get a return over time. I disagree that a wall will solve the problem of illegal immigration. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

    As an example the Michigan Doctor will languish in jail awaiting a hearing for quite some time as many do because the system is extremely backed up. Lets get that system working to return those found to be here illegally sent home in a short time frame. Instead we spend billions incarcerating them and then complain about the money.

    I am not a open borders type. Neither am I a build a wall on one border to keep the brown guys out type. Immigration has proved itself to be very useful to the country over the years but that was when we had a much smaller population and the nation was immature. Things may have changed as the nation matured and we may not need as many immigrants now. I don’t know, but we need to have serious debate on that issue and then a revised immigration plan that works.

    The dreamers were brought here by parents at a young age. They aren’t citizens of Mexico or Columbia, or Ireland or Poland or Russia they are citizens of America. They need to be dealt with as such. Forcing a wall on us as part of the agreement to legalize these people is wrong.

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 26, 2018 11:56 AM
    Comment #423736
    d.a.n wrote: I am not taking sides on these conspiracy theories until the whole truth comes out. So far, I don’t see convincing evidence of these conspiracy theories by MSNBC or FOX NEWS.
    j2t2 wrote: Now that is weak D.A.N lumping these two together when we all know Faux has been much more active in the start up of rumors that lead to no where, meanwhile it wasn’t MSNBC that started the Russian collusion investigation.
    I have not been keeping count, but MSNBC’s Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia is getting old. FOX NEWs is not showing hatred toward Trump. MSNBC and many left-leaning MSM news stations are being very hateful (especially MSNBC). I don’t recall ever seeing the same level of hatred from FOX NEWs.
    j2t2 wrote: Instead of responding to each and every claim you make D, I will say in general your argument is about hate and you think it is MSNBC doing the hating. You disregard so much from Faux to make this argument and it is an argument built on sand. No foundation just a make beleive one sided hate.
    I disagree. I am not ignoring it at all. I’ve said many times that most (if not all) of the MSM is untrustworthy. The left-leaning MSM dislike the right-leaning presidents and MSMs, and vice-versa. However, I have never seen the level of hatred toward a president that is spewed on MSNBC and some other liberal MSM news stations against Trump. I don’t recall FOX NEWS spewing so much hate about Obama, do I recall seeing Obama voters getting beat up, kicked, and vehemently ostracized like the Trump voters were. I don’t ever recall (in my lifetime) the level of hatred (shown by so many MSMs and people) to a president and his supports as has been shown toward Trump and Trump voters.
    d.a.n wrote: You are working too hard to portray me as a right-extremist. It’s not working.
    j2t2 wrote: Wow such a silly strawman D.A.N. I haven’t spent a word claiming you were anything.
    HHhmmmm m m m …
    j2t2 wrote: After looking at some of your posts, I would suggest you are part of the propaganda machine…
    j2t2 wrote: Your defense of the paltry 18 billion for the wall is amusing and the twisted logic you use is sad.
    Nonsense. Walls work. Ask the 60 countries that have walls ahd find them effective. Ask Israel. Perhaps it is the effectiveness of a wall (more than the cost) that Democraps are really worried about, because the cost ($13-to-$18-to-$25 Billion, or more perhaps) is miniscule compared to almost $2 Billion per day of interest on the national debt of $20.5 Trillion. A wall was built in San Diego, CA., and it was very effective in reducing border crossings. Of course, a wall alone is not enough. Border patrols and security technology are required too.
    j2t2 wrote: Trump is asking for a down payment of 25 billion BTW. For what? a wall…where… how long…. no one knows.
    Yep! I am all for it. Even if it costs $50 Billion. That would be equivalent to about 30 days of interest on the $20 Trillion national debt. After all, the MAIN job of the federal government is security, and security the borders and coast lines, and protection the nation is part of that responsibility. Also, it is clear that many Democraps are resisting any real border security, because it hurts their goal and hopes for amnesty and citizenship for illegal immigrants to potentially become democrat voters; bribing and pandering with promises of amnesty and citizenship. That is despicable. We can’t let that happen.
    j2t2 wrote: But hey give us the money run the debt up even more then we can blame Obama for the economic collapse and the spending/tax cuts to stabilize the collapse and claim that anyone who complains has a weak argument.
    And Obama Care? How much did that cost? Now, healthcare is more expensive than ever before. True, Bush effed up the economy with the Iraq war based on WMD that did not actually exist. That was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the U.S. But the previous administration isn’t totally to blame for the national debt from $9 Trillion to $20 Trillion. The mortgage meltdown was also the fault of both democraps and repugnicans in Congress, who allowed the mortgage bubble to grow so large and out-of-control. At one point, there were over 10,000 foreclosures per day!
    j2t2 wrote: A far cry from Mexico will pay for it. But I guess you think another 25 billion on the taxpayers credit card for a wall despite such a decline in the number of illegals immigrating here is wise. I don’t.
    Correct. I do. While illegal border crossing are down, there are stil way too many per day.
    j2t2 wrote: To top it off you then finish with the “until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election” blurb! Do you actually believe with Trumps track record the 25 billion isn’t corruption.
    Don’t know yet. Not much of the wall has been built yet.
    j2t2 wrote: Trump is one that seems to consistently defends extremist. But his positions are dictated by others most of the time, he isn’t political savvy enough to have his own positions on issues. That is why he seems to be the bull in the china shop. Why he switches back and forth so often. Why he appears to be an idiot on so many issues IMHO. Why I worry he could lead so many otherwise decent people down the wrong path.
    I am not defending all of Trump’s actions. I am only saying I like his policies and some of the results.
    • Supreme court (Neil Gorsuch) and federal court appointments;
    • Lowering corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% (i.e. closer to the global average of about 20%), which is bringing some jobs back to the U.S.;
    • The push to secure the borders, and enforce existing immigration laws;
    • Tax cuts for most workers;
    • Highlighting the dishonesty of the Main Stream Media (mostly left leaning);
    • roll-back and restrictions on many unnecessary regulations;
    • improved security via travel bans from nations with terrorists;
    • rejecting the Trans-Pacific partnetship; working for FAIR TRADE;
    • roll-back on many of Obama’s effed up policies;
    • illegal immigration is down 67% !
    • the manufacturing index is up to a 33 year high;
    • the markets are up, because their is a new optimism, because of common-sense policies;
    • NATO announced Allied spending is up $10 Billion because of Donald Trump;
    • helped pass more legislation in less time than most presidents in U.S. history;
    • rebuilding the military;
    • working to cut funding from sanctuary cities and states;
    • and, the rapid decimation of I.S.I.S. ;
    j2t2 wrote: On the issue of illegal immigration I agree and have said so that we must do something to curb it. I disagree (in the long run) how much you claim we spend as a country on illegal immigration is accurate as we also get a return over time. I disagree that a wall will solve the problem of illegal immigration. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.
    OK. We will have to agree to disagree.
    j2t2 wrote: As an example the Michigan Doctor will languish in jail awaiting a hearing for quite some time as many do because the system is extremely backed up. Lets get that system working to return those found to be here illegally sent home in a short time frame. Instead we spend billions incarcerating them and then complain about the money.
    As stated before, I.C.E. should focus on criminals. IF Dr. Lukasz Niec has not committed other crimes in the 26 years ago when he was 17, then I.C.E. should focus on more serious criminal illegal immigrants.
    j2t2 wrote: I am not a open borders type.
    That’s good. So how can the border be secured better, so that they aren’t “open borders”? The one thing that would help most is to require eVerify (and/or other verification systems), and prosecute greedy illegal employers. That would stop most illegal immigration.
    j2t2 wrote: Neither am I a build a wall on one border to keep the brown guys out type.
    Playing the race card, eh? Nobody said anything about what color they are. I don’t care what color they are. Only that they are illegally trespassing our borders.
    j2t2 wrote: Immigration has proved itself to be very useful to the country over the years but that was when we had a much smaller population and the nation was immature. Things may have changed as the nation matured and we may not need as many immigrants now.
    I am not against controlled immigration, but I am against illegal and uncontrolled immigration (legal or not), because it causes societal disorder, more crime, more hate, and chaos.
    j2t2 wrote: I don’t know, but we need to have serious debate on that issue and then a revised immigration plan that works.
    Agreed.
    j2t2 wrote: The dreamers were brought here by parents at a young age.
    True. I am OK for a path to citizenship for those people. But not until: (1) borders are secured; (2) end chain-migration; (3) end the immigration lottery; (4) require eVerify and prosecute greedy illegal employers; (5) enforce existing immigration laws, and end sanctuary cities;
    j2t2 wrote: Forcing a wall on us as part of the agreement to legalize these people is wrong.
    Again, I disagree completely. IF the root problem of illegal immigration is not addressed first, then the problem will continue to grow out-of-control, just as it did after the Reagan shamnesty of 1986.

    But, no doubt, many democraps would LOVE amnesty and citizenship for millions of new Democrat voters.
    What is truly despicable is pitting U.S. citizens and illegal aliens against each ohter for votes and chaap labor.

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 26, 2018 1:57 PM
    Comment #423740
    FOX NEWs is not showing hatred toward Trump.>/blockquote>

    Of course not they are way to busy kissing his a** and attacking Obama and Clinton. However They do show their hatred to liberals and dems on a regular basis. Pelosi and Schumer come to mind.


    I don’t ever recall (in my lifetime) the level of hatred (shown by so many MSMs and people) to a president and his supports as has been shown toward Trump and Trump voters.

    Wow you must have forgot all about Obama being elected president D. Trump himself was a birther for starters. Faux News was one great big hate filled attack on Obama, the Muslim Christian Kenyan born communist nazi.

    Playing the race card, eh? Nobody said anything about what color they are. I don’t care what color they are. Only that they are illegally trespassing our borders.

    Oh so if you don’t say what color they are it makes a difference LOL! You seem to be targeting just those at the southern border D.A.N. and they are brown skinned. No wall at the airports to keep the pregnant Russian and Chinese moms from having anchor babies in this country!

    IF the root problem of illegal immigration is not addressed first, then the problem will continue to grow out-of-control,

    Couldn’t agree more D.A.N but the wall won’t stop the root problem. You are wanting the symptom fixed not the problem if you think the wall is the answer. The root problem is much more complicated but income inequality between developed and developing countries is one cause. The root problem is mercantilism and colonization a century or two ago. The root problem is globalization.

    http://www.weareoneamerica.org/root-causes-immigration-nafta

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/25/undocumented-mexicans_n_5709141.html

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 26, 2018 4:34 PM
    Comment #423761

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    Posted by: Agen Poker Online at January 27, 2018 2:01 AM
    Comment #423767
    d.a.n wrote: FOX NEWs is not showing hatred toward Trump.
    j2t2 wrote: Of course not they are way to busy kissing his a** and attacking Obama and Clinton. However They do show their hatred to liberals and dems on a regular basis. Pelosi and Schumer come to mind.
    d.a.n wrote: I don’t ever recall (in my lifetime) the level of hatred (shown by so many MSMs and people) to a president and his supports as has been shown toward Trump and Trump voters.
    j2t2 wrote: Wow you must have forgot all about Obama being elected president D. Trump himself was a birther for starters.
    Yes, and Trump admitted he was wrong about that. It was foolish for Trump to continue to challenge the issue.
    j2t2 wrote: Faux News was one great big hate filled attack on Obama, the Muslim Christian Kenyan born communist nazi.
    I don’t recall anyone on Fox calling Obama a Nazi.
    d.a.n wrote: Playing the race card, eh? Nobody said anything about what color they are. I don’t care what color they are. Only that they are illegally trespassing our borders.
    j2t2 wrote: Oh so if you don’t say what color they are it makes a difference LOL! You seem to be targeting just those at the southern border D.A.N. and they are brown skinned.
    So you are doubling-down on playing the race card. You are essentially calling me a racist,eh? Does that make you feel better?
    j2t2 wrote: No wall at the airports to keep the pregnant Russian and Chinese moms from having anchor babies in this country!
    That should not be happening either. 70% of babies born at Parkland Hospital in Dallas (2006) are by illegal immigrants. I don’t condone any of that.
    d.a.n wrote: IF the root problem of illegal immigration is not addressed first, then the problem will continue to grow out-of-control, …
    j2t2 wrote: Couldn’t agree more D.A.N …
    j2t2 wrote: but the wall won’t stop the root problem. You are wanting the symptom fixed not the problem if you think the wall is the answer.

    A wall alone will not solve the problem, and I never said a wall alone is adequate.
    The wall also has to be monitored, and the following are also required:

    • (1)build the wall and secure the borders, and coast-lines (all of the borders);
    • (2)end the chain-migration;
    • (3)end the visa/immigration lottery;
    • (4)enforce existing laws and end sanctuary cities and states;
    • (5)require eVerify and prosecute greedy illegal employers;

    Only then, give a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers (since it is not their fault).
    Without those controls above, the problem simply continues to grow out-of-control.
    IF Democraps don’t like that deal, then it proves they are really only for “open-borders”, and their true agenda is to change the electorate by pandering and promising the hope for amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants, of which most will probably vote democrap. That’s despicable.

    j2t2 wrote: The root problem is much more complicated but income inequality between developed and developing countries is one cause. The root problem is mercantilism and colonization a century or two ago. The root problem is globalization.
    No, it is not that complicated. It is complicated by Dreamers, but that can be solved. But do democraps really want the problem solved, or do they raally want the flood of illegal immigrants into the U.S. to continue? Posted by: d.a.n at January 27, 2018 8:37 AM
    Comment #423768

    So D.A.N what exactly does ending chain-migration, and ending visa/immigration lottery have to do with illegal immigration?

    Wow talking about weak arguments-

    “Yes, and Trump admitted he was wrong about that.” Eight years of birtherism and then he admits he was wrong!

    “I don’t recall anyone on Fox calling Obama a Nazi.”

    https://fair.org/extra/playing-the-nazi-card/

    “So you are doubling-down on playing the race card.”

    NO just asking you to explain why you focus only on the southern border and nothing on the other borders where the expecting moms fly into. Right now it seems you guys focus only on Mexicans, it just makes one wonder. Even your answer about the Russian moms deflects back to illegal brown skinned people.

    No, it is not that complicated.

    Yes it is. The symptom is what you want fixed not the cause, why is that?

    Posted by: j2t2 at January 27, 2018 12:30 PM
    Comment #423778
    j2t2 wrote: So D.A.N what exactly does ending chain-migration, and ending visa/immigration lottery have to do with illegal immigration?
    Because I don’t think every relative (parents, aunts, uncles, 1st and 2nd cousins, half bothers and sisters, etc., etc., etc) of every immigrant should also get automatic citizenship too. Currently, that’s how it works. And the VISA/immigration lottery is stupid in many ways.
    j2t2 wrote: Wow talking about weak arguments-
    No j2t2. Your arguments and calling people racists and Nazis is what is ridiculous. People will tend to ignore everything you say when you become unhinged and start calling everyone racists and Nazis.
    j2t2 wrote: “Yes, and Trump admitted he was wrong about that.” Eight years of birtherism and then he admits he was wrong!
    Yeah, it took a while (i.e. when he started running for president), but he admitted he was wrong.
    d.a.n wrote: “I don’t recall anyone on Fox calling Obama a Nazi.”
    j2t2 wrote: https://fair.org/extra/playing-the-nazi-card/
    I guess I missed one. I don’t condone that, just as I don’t condone you calling me and others on this site a racist and a Nazi. What makes you any different thant those that sink that low?
    d.a.n wrote: “So you are doubling-down on playing the race card.”
    j2t2 wrote: NO just asking you to explain why you focus only on the southern border and nothing on the other borders where the expecting moms fly into.
    Not true. Many times I have stated that all borders and coastlines should be secured. But you conveniently don’t see that.
    j2t2 wrote: Right now it seems you guys focus only on Mexicans, it just makes one wonder.
    j2t2, I take it all back about you not being a bad person. Your comments are despicable by calling everyone (that you diagree with) Nazis and racists. I guess that makes you feel better, but it makes you marginal. Nobody will take you serious. They will simply skim over your comments and say “Oh, …. there goes j2t2 again on a Nazi and racism rant again.”. Please continue. Really. You are just digging that hole you’re in deeper and deeper. I don’t know who you think you are trying to impress, but you are just making an ass of yourself (to be quite honest).
    j2t2 wrote: Even your answer about the Russian moms deflects back to illegal brown skinned people.
    Nonsense. I said that I do not condone any illegal immigration or other such practices. What part of that do you not understand?
    d.a.n wrote: No, it is not that complicated.
    j2t2 wrote: Yes it is. The symptom is what you want fixed not the cause, why is that?
    Wrong. I stated the following:

    A wall alone will not solve the problem, and I never said a wall alone is adequate.
    The wall also has to be monitored, and the following are also required:

    • (1)build the wall and secure the borders, and coast-lines (all of the borders);
    • (2)end the chain-migration;
    • (3)end the visa/immigration lottery;
    • (4)enforce existing laws and end sanctuary cities and states;
    • (5)require eVerify and prosecute greedy illegal employers;

    Only then, give a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers (since it is not their fault).
    Without those controls above, the problem simply continues to grow out-of-control.
    IF Democraps don’t like that deal, then it proves they are really only for “open-borders”, and their true agenda is to change the electorate by pandering and promising the hope for amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants, of which most will probably vote democrap. That’s despicable.

    What part of that will not address the root cause?
    Those steps are more than the repugnicans and democraps will ever consider.
    But those steps would drastically limit illegal immigration.

    I am beginning to think that you are also only interested in changing the demographic and the electorate, by uncontrolled illegal immigration.
    That is because you don’t like any common-sense controls.
    You say walls don’t work, but they do work (which I seriously doubt you have researched at any length).

    At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least, possibly, until rewarding corrupt incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

    Posted by: d.a.n at January 27, 2018 5:46 PM
    Comment #427472

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