Third Party & Independents Archives

Justice For Trump Supporters Underway

The ‘take Trump down’ conspiracy house of cards, to include the GOP/Dem/MSM/corpocratists/establishment/Trump haters, is starting to go down this very day.

It's going to take another 3-6 months to nail it down tight, get the Attny Gen off his arse but, justice is coming for Trump supporters over the next 2-4 years.

Watergate is like the proverbial flea crawling up the elephants leg with rape on its mind as it relates to the Obama/Clinton/FBI/MSM corruption and the subversion of national security and attack on our democratic republic.

Meanwhile, back at the WH, Trump is on the verge of fulfilling his candidacy promises. He has reduced federal regulations at a rate of 22 removed for every 1 new regulation since Jan 20. He will be signing a new tax policy into law before Xmas.

The GOP Trump haters will most likely go along with President Trump's infrastructure plan, military buildup and welfare reform. But, he won't be able to 'reform NAFTA and the AFTA's or 'build a wall'. These goals will have to be slid back until his second term where most of the GOP Trump haters will have been removed.

The coming year should be a hugely successful year for the President; This President will go down in history as one of the 'greats', in the top five, IMO.

Otherwise, let's make America great again . . .

Posted by Roy Ellis at December 14, 2017 10:40 PM
Comments
Comment #422423
This President will go down

I agree with that you russian propaganda quoting nazi prick. The gas chamber would be the most appropriate method of execution for his espionage and treason.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 15, 2017 12:23 PM
Comment #422425

Unfortunately Roy, ohrealy’s hateful unintelligent nonsense and baseless accusations are exactly why President Trump, his supporters and good Americans won’t fare well in the coming years.

Despite not having a freaking clue as to what actual racism or fascism is, or what actual facts look like, the democrats and media will continue colluding with each other to further divide the country for their own political gain.

(Yes, I know ohrealy is trolling, but such rhetoric is becoming the leftist standard)

Posted by: kctim at December 15, 2017 12:47 PM
Comment #422431

The evidence that tRump conspired with the russians during the campaign is compelling to all but the most diehard tRumpists and putin trolls.
The quiet nothings coming from Mueller as he puts together his case, the notice from Flynn’s lawyers saying they won’t work with the tRump lawyers any more, the dotards growing gap between what he tweets when his handlers aren’t looking and the observable reality and historical record people can see, the wikileaks messages, Comey’s firing, Sessions recusal, the constant “Oh, yeah, I really did meet with that russian, forgot..duh”, the “yeah, I was a foreign rep”, Page’s testimony, and Mannafort, Kushner, Sessions, Papodopolis, Miller and Hicks all went to russia to meet with putin officials during the campaign.
Yeah, the cheating cheeto is going down alright. As in 30-life in ADX Florence.

Posted by: Dave at December 15, 2017 3:13 PM
Comment #422432

“The evidence that tRump conspired with the russians during the campaign is compelling to all but the most diehard tRumpists and putin trolls.”

What evidence would that be ? Because non of that rhetoric you spewed is evidence. And BTW, meeting with the Russians is not a crime.

Posted by: dbs at December 15, 2017 3:41 PM
Comment #422433

Roy

“I agree with that you russian propaganda quoting nazi prick.”

Posted by, well…. you know.

Apparently you’ve struck another nerve. Ha ha ha

Posted by: dbs at December 15, 2017 3:45 PM
Comment #422434

kctim

Funny how those who actually practice what they accuse others of scream the loudest when things don’t go their way.

Posted by: dbs at December 15, 2017 3:48 PM
Comment #422435

Dave, Putin apparently considers his investment worthwhile, for the reduction in our international prestige, poking an eye in the face of democracy, and other financial reasons. The financial reasons must be most important to him. China is gradually stepping up to the position formerly held by the US in world leadership. Russia’s prestige isn’t really enhanced, except maybe in Putin’s own mind.

China will demand US withdrawal from the korean peninsula in exchange for brokering a peace deal. They’re setting up refugee camps on their border, so something is happening there. Russia provides some financial support through north korean employees sending remittances home.

Dotard DirT is as useless as it’s possible for anyone to be in such a position.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 15, 2017 3:55 PM
Comment #422437

List of a few of DirT’s lies:


Jan. 23 “Between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused me to lose the popular vote.” (There’s no evidence of illegal voting.)

Jan. 25 “Now, the audience was the biggest ever. But this crowd was massive. Look how far back it goes. This crowd was massive.” (Official aerial photos show Obama’s 2009 inauguration was much more heavily attended.)

Jan. 25 “Take a look at the Pew reports (which show voter fraud.)” (The report never mentioned voter fraud.)

Jan. 25 “You had millions of people that now aren’t insured anymore.” (The real number is less than 1 million, according to the Urban Institute.)

Jan. 25 “So, look, when President Obama was there two weeks ago making a speech, very nice speech. Two people were shot and killed during his speech. You can’t have that.” (There were no gun homicide victims in Chicago that day.)

Jan. 26 “We’ve taken in tens of thousands of people. We know nothing about them. They can say they vet them. They didn’t vet them. They have no papers. How can you vet somebody when you don’t know anything about them and you have no papers? How do you vet them? You can’t.” (Vetting lasts up to two years.)

Jan. 26 “I cut off hundreds of millions of dollars off one particular plane, hundreds of millions of dollars in a short period of time. It wasn’t like I spent, like, weeks, hours, less than hours, and many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. And the plane’s going to be better.” (Most of the cuts were already planned.)

Jan. 29 “The Cuban-Americans, I got 84 percent of that vote.” (There is no support for this.)

Jan. 30 “Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage.” (At least 746 people were detained and processed, and the Delta outage happened two days later.)

Feb. 3 “Professional anarchists, thugs and paid protesters are proving the point of the millions of people who voted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!” (There is no evidence of paid protesters.)

Feb. 5 “We had 109 people out of hundreds of thousands of travelers and all we did was vet those people very, very carefully.” (About 60,000 people were affected.)

Feb. 6 “I have already saved more than $700 million when I got involved in the negotiation on the F-35.” (Much of the price drop was projected before Trump took office.)

Feb. 6 “It’s gotten to a point where it is not even being reported. And in many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn’t want to report it.” (Terrorism has been reported on, often in detail.)

Feb. 6 “And the previous administration allowed it to happen because we shouldn’t have been in Iraq, but we shouldn’t have gotten out the way we got out. It created a vacuum, ISIS was formed.” (The group’s origins date to 2004.)

Feb. 7 “And yet the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years.” (It was higher in the 1980s and ’90s.)

Feb. 7 “I saved more than $600 million. I got involved in negotiation on a fighter jet, the F-35.” (The Defense Department projected this price drop before Trump took office.)

Feb. 9 “Chris Cuomo, in his interview with Sen. Blumenthal, never asked him about his long-term lie about his brave ‘service’ in Vietnam. FAKE NEWS!” (It was part of Cuomo’s first question.)

Feb. 9 “Sen. Richard Blumenthal now misrepresents what Judge Gorsuch told him?” (The Gorsuch comments were later corroborated.)

Feb. 10 “I don’t know about it. I haven’t seen it. What report is that?” (Trump knew about Flynn’s actions for weeks.)

Feb. 16 “We got 306 because people came out and voted like they’ve never seen before so that’s the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan.” (George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama all won bigger margins in the Electoral College.)

Feb. 16 “That’s the other thing that was wrong with the travel ban. You had Delta with a massive problem with their computer system at the airports.” (Delta’s problems happened two days later.)

Feb. 16 “Walmart announced it will create 10,000 jobs in the United States just this year because of our various plans and initiatives.” (The jobs are a result of its investment plans announced in Oct. 2016.)

Feb. 16 “When WikiLeaks, which I had nothing to do with, comes out and happens to give, they’re not giving classified information.” (Not always. They have released classified information in the past.)

Feb. 16 “We had a very smooth rollout of the travel ban. But we had a bad court. Got a bad decision.” (The rollout was chaotic.)

Feb. 18 “And there was no way to vet those people. There was no documentation. There was no nothing.” (Refugees receive multiple background checks, taking up to two years.)

Feb. 18 “You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this?” (Trump implied there was a terror attack in Sweden, but there was no such attack.)

Feb. 24 “By the way, you folks are in here — this place is packed, there are lines that go back six blocks.” (There was no evidence of long lines.)

Feb. 24 “ICE came and endorsed me.” (Only its union did.)

Feb. 24 “Obamacare covers very few people — and remember, deduct from the number all of the people that had great health care that they loved that was taken away from them — it was taken away from them.” (Obamacare increased coverage by a net of about 20 million.)

Feb. 27 “Since Obamacare went into effect, nearly half of the insurers are stopped and have stopped from participating in the Obamacare exchanges.” (Many fewer pulled out.)

Feb. 27 “On one plane, on a small order of one plane, I saved $725 million. And I would say I devoted about, if I added it up, all those calls, probably about an hour. So I think that might be my highest and best use.” (Much of the price cut was already projected.)

A thousand more here:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

Posted by: ohrealy at December 15, 2017 4:18 PM
Comment #422438

Our Hair-On-Fire Liberalites are freaking out now that it appears President Trump and congress will reform our income tax code. The yelling and screaming from the rich in high tax states like California, New York and others is a pleasant sound. It appears we will have three consecutive quarters of over three percent GDP growth; not accomplished in over a decade. Next year might see GDP growing at over four percent.

The Left hates prosperity for everyone who works and earns that isn’t gifted by politicians to special interests.

Tough Shit Boys.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 15, 2017 4:39 PM
Comment #422439

dbs; Every piece listed is evidence of collusion. There just hasn’t been a ‘smoking gun’ found. Yet.

ohrealy; A great article is available in yesterdays NYT. Basically,
“In his first 10 months in office, (tRump) has told 103 separate untruths, many of them repeatedly. Obama told 18 over his entire eight-year tenure…We have used the word “lies” again here, as we did in our original piece. If anything, though, the word is unfair to Obama and Bush. When they became aware that they had been saying something untrue, they stopped doing it. Obama didn’t continue to claim that all Americans would be able to keep their existing health insurance under Obamacare, for example, and Bush changed the way he spoke about Iraq’s weapons capability.
Trump is different. When he is caught lying, he will often try to discredit people telling the truth, be they judges, scientists, F.B.I. or C.I.A. officials, journalists or members of Congress. Trump is trying to make truth irrelevant. It is extremely damaging to democracy, and it’s not an accident. It’s core to his political strategy.
As for Obama: His falsehoods tended to be attempts to make his own policies look better or to overstate a problem he was trying to solve. In a few cases, they seemed to be careless exaggerations he avoided repeating.”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html

Posted by: Dave at December 15, 2017 4:47 PM
Comment #422440

Dave
Every piece of what ?

Posted by: dbs at December 15, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #422441

DBS,

I can handle the screaming, it’s the hatred and pure idiocy that drives me crazy.
“Quiet nothings” = compelling evidence?
Thinking anybody gives a sh*t about how many people were in a group or some line, or how much Diet Coke somebody drinks?

That’s not just the behavior of things not going a certain way, it’s the behavior of fools who’s fantasy is crumbling all around them.

Posted by: kctim at December 15, 2017 5:17 PM
Comment #422442

Either Mueller has a whole bunch of compelling evidence kept under tight wraps in his office…or he doesn’t. I don’t see the point in arguing over which is which until his investigation is complete.

Regardless, the scandal is already quite serious. People at the highest levels of Trump’s campaign have been charged with lying to the FBI or conspiring against the United States. Flynn, in particular, is the most interesting one. There was clearly enough evidence to charge him with a litany of crimes apart from lying to the FBI, so it would be strange if his guilty plea was Mueller’s final action. More likely, there is more to come and I intend to stock up on as much popcorn as I can.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 15, 2017 5:52 PM
Comment #422445

Recently, dimwits were pushing the old Upsidaisium One or Unobtanium One story. So it turns out that was just a smokescreen for the real story about what they want to happen at Bears Ears in Utah.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-uranium-firm-bears-ears-national-monument-20171208-story.html

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/12/13/uranium-mill-pressed-trump-officials-for-bears-ears-reductions-records-show/

There’s also an interesting article at the Denver Post about a paleontologist’s take on the matter.

I hope none of that yellow cake ends up in russia russia russia.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 15, 2017 6:33 PM
Comment #422447

“More likely, there is more to come and I intend to stock up on as much popcorn as I can.”

Warren, I dislike bursting your bubble of hope; however you may be watching an entirely different revelation soon coming from sources other than Mueller and his lapdog Comey.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 15, 2017 7:25 PM
Comment #422451

For all this stuff to go thru the courts I believe it will take 4 to 5 years to drain the swamp.

Hannity is taking two weeks for Xmas. Going to be a quiet holiday season. We need that, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at December 15, 2017 10:44 PM
Comment #422459
however you may be watching an entirely different revelation soon coming from sources other than Mueller and his lapdog Comey.

It is disappointing to hear you defame the character of honorable gentlemen like Mueller and Comey. Until you explain your reasoning, I will dismiss this as simply an effort for you to blow smoke and obfuscate the investigation. More sinisterly, you may be laying the groundwork for Mueller’s firing on trumped up charges in order to further obstruct justice.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 16, 2017 9:35 AM
Comment #422460
It’s going to take another 3-6 months to nail it down tight, get the Attny Gen off his arse but, justice is coming for Trump supporters over the next 2-4 years.

The Attorney General is on his a**?

Anyway I have an idea that would honor the spirit of the times and those that have been Trump supporters during the first few months of his reign. I suggest this purge be called “operation hummingbird” as a way for followers to come to grips with the victories that will be achieved by the Trump administration. I would also suggest that you guys be patient and then towards the end of June first week of July spring the trap on those involved in the …how do you say it…”The ‘take Trump down’ conspiracy house of cards”. It would be so appropriate IMHO.


Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2017 11:31 AM
Comment #422461

People are confused because La Famiglia doesn’t have a name that ends in a vowel. This is an organized crime investigation of a family that will continue for many years until all family members and associates involved in their crimes are charged, prosecuted, imprisoned, and some may be executed. The current right wing alternative being proposed is to get rid of the FBI altogether, because they’re doing exactly what they’ve done in other similar cases. They appear to want to pass a law exempting right wingers from prosecution for any crime. I doubt that will happen, but it would make Putin very happen, so that’s all that matters to the DirT.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 16, 2017 12:17 PM
Comment #422462

“It is disappointing to hear you defame the character of honorable gentlemen like Mueller and Comey.’

Warren, I suggest you read something besides the usual Liberal offerings as you are unaware of what is about to happen with these “honorable” folks.

The Liberal up and down opinion of Comey has been similar to watching the bouncing ball.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 16, 2017 3:47 PM
Comment #422463
you are unaware of what is about to happen with these “honorable” folks.

I know. Republicans are gearing up before Trump fires Mueller. We will see honorable reputations unfairly destroyed. Bogus legal theories will fuel persecutions of those who respect the rule of law. All the principle’s that once made us great will be sacrificed for the benefit of our new strongman.

The Liberal up and down opinion of Comey has been similar to watching the bouncing ball.

I speak only for myself, but I’ve never doubted the integrity of either Comey or Mueller.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 16, 2017 6:47 PM
Comment #422464

“I speak only for myself, but I’ve never doubted the integrity of either Comey or Mueller.”

That is truly pathetic Warren. There are countless links to facts showing him to be a liar.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 16, 2017 7:14 PM
Comment #422465

Also both Democrats and Republicans wanted Comey fired.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 16, 2017 7:18 PM
Comment #422466

KAP,

I scolded Democrats at the time when they poo-pooed Comey and now I scold Republicans for the same.

RF,

I take pity on a man fuming with hate as you do. I hang my hat on the integrity of Comey & Mueller and you can take that to the bank. Nobody is perfect and I’m sure innocuous mistakes have been made, but I won’t accept the characters of these men to be assainated with a thousand papercuts. If you want to criticize liars, I suggest you examine Donald Trump.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 16, 2017 7:50 PM
Comment #422467

Warped, Comey screwed up so you poo pooed the democrats but didn’t scold Comey? IMO You poo pooed the wrong people.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at December 16, 2017 8:14 PM
Comment #422468

The purge of truth and accountability continues under the guise of draining the swamp

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2017 8:31 PM
Comment #422469

oops


draining the swamp

Posted by: j2t2 at December 16, 2017 9:05 PM
Comment #422475

The purge of truth and accountability continues under the guise of draining the swamp

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2017 11:02 AM
Comment #422476
There are countless links to facts showing him to be a liar.

And even more with facts of Trumps lies so why do ytou choose to ignore the liar in chief but believe the propaganda.The propaganda machine of the oligarchy.


How tyrants operate.
6. They attack the motives of anyone who opposes them, including judges.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 17, 2017 11:06 AM
Comment #422481

“If you want to criticize liars, I suggest you examine Donald Trump.”

No need to get your panties in a wad Warren. Comey lied and its on record. Denial is futile.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 17, 2017 3:22 PM
Comment #422482

j2t2, it’s the old firehose of falsehoods technique that putin employs. I goes back many years. In the west it was used by climate change deniers back in 2009. Wikileaks was involved back then in releasing emails from various professors. They were taken out of context, and excerpts were publicized that were not about what the deniers said they were about. Some of those professors are still being harassed and threatened many years later. Does any of that sound familiar? These firehose “people” are evil. Those that support and quote them might be politely described as misguided, but they’re really just evil too. Anyone that has ever quoted from Breitbarf is evil, and knows it, and enjoys being evil, in front of their little computer screens at home. They should all get up and go bang their heads into a wall repeatedly until they knock some sense into themselves.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 17, 2017 4:53 PM
Comment #422483

Royal Flush doesn’t care for the truth. In fact, truth is Royal Flush’s fiercest enemies. The Trumpian platform is built on a foundation of lies and logical fallacies. Like a house built on sand, it will be swept away in the next flood. I choose to build my house on the rock. I do not know what Mueller will do with the evidence he gathers, but I do not doubt justice will be executed blindly, as it should, as long as he is able to finish the job he began and he remains unencumbered by White House or Congressional interference.

https://twitter.com/Comey/status/936059099393003521

Or as Barack Obama famously put it: Reality has a way of asserting itself.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 5:14 PM
Comment #422484

Ohrealy,

Excellent comparison to the targeted character assassination of accomplished men like Dr. Michael Mann. At least we can take solace in the growing political coalition of truthseekers; the right’s army of liars cannot survive another general election.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 5:22 PM
Comment #422485

Warren is so easy to manipulate. Rather than ask for links to prove Comey is lying as I have written, he changes the subject to President Trump.

Obviously his lack of curiosity or demand for proof, proves he knows that Comey has lied.

The president promised action on tax relief and it appears that we will get that legislation signed very soon. I listened and watched some Democrat politicians finally admit that there is significant tax relief for middle class working Americans. Their biggest complaint is that corporations and business also got tax relief.

Will someone please explain why it is not good for American business to be competitive with the world and enjoy comparable tax rates with other leading democratic countries.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 17, 2017 7:23 PM
Comment #422486

WP, I was reading an article about this guy today, considered a predecessor of JEdgar and others:

http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/military-history/famous-military-spies-ralph-van-deman/

If you believe that right wingers can change, I think you’re wrong. If you think they can shut up, then yes, I agree with that. Americans love magical thinking and conspiracy theories. The “poorly educated” don’t know about critical thinking or even how to learn. They’re the gullibles who take whatever is handed to them by the deplorables and repeat it. The internet has made gossiping into big business. These new internet billionaires claim to have different views than the older ones, but their views on their own businesses are as far to the right as anyone else.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 17, 2017 7:35 PM
Comment #422487
Rather than ask for links to prove Comey is lying as I have written
Maybe my decision not to do what you expected should indicate that you can’t manipulate me?

Anyhow, now you’ve changed the subject to me instead of defending your accusations. Obviously, this means you are just blowing smoke. And please spare me your talking points about Comey’s misstatements regarding Huma Abedin. After all, to err is to be human. Instead, I direct you to the statements from Rod Rosenstein & Chris Wray defending the integrity of the investigation. There is no pattern of lying or injustice here. Just honest men and women serving American justice as best they can.

Ohrealy,

I hate to say it, but it has been said that society sometimes must progress one funeral at a time.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 9:04 PM
Comment #422492

but I do not doubt justice will be executed blindly,

Why did this remind me of the birthday boy swinging a stick at a pinata.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 18, 2017 12:34 PM
Comment #422493

“as long as he is able to finish the job he began and he remains unencumbered by White House or Congressional interference.”

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 18, 2017 12:52 PM
Comment #422494

The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook

An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah’s billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House’s desire for a nuclear deal with Iran.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obama-hezbollah-drug-trafficking-investigation/

This well researched expose from “Politico” made my blood boil. As much as I disliked Obama policies, this centers on incompetent capitulation by a president for a worthless deal with Iran.

President Obama placed his “legacy” above law and order and the defense of the United States.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 18, 2017 2:24 PM
Comment #422496
I hate to say it, but it has been said that society sometimes must progress one funeral at a time. Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 9:04 PM

I think we may be on the verge of a revolution. I thought it would happen in the next generation, but Dotard Dolt may cause it all by himself, insisting that all loyalty is to him rather than to the constitution. The military might have a good case in removing him in defense of the constitution, but what happens then? The Dotard in Chief, as well as several others at least, have put the interests of other countries and their own corporations and other private entities ahead of the national interest. They actually have no concept of law and order, and seek to put others who can be manipulated onto the federal bench to help promote this strange Un-American agenda.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 18, 2017 7:41 PM
Comment #422498
The military might have a good case in removing him in defense of the constitution

I have to commend James Mattis for toughing it out over the past year. Many weaker men would have fallen down (eg: Tillerson, Rex) in similar situations. His leadership is one of the reasons the country is still barely afloat. Fortunately, it is just 12 short months until the Democrats take control of Congress and normalcy can be restored.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 19, 2017 8:29 AM
Comment #422500

Other than the bickering in a non-statesman like manner, what exactly makes this a “strange Un-American agenda” that demands “normalcy” being restored?
What has actually happened that makes some believe we “are on the verge of revolution”?

Sorry guys, but President Obama didn’t create a new ‘normal,’ he tried to force one and people pushed back. IF there is a ‘revolution,’ it will be over individual rights vs the left-wing nanny state, not some Russian or 1% conspiracy theories.

Posted by: kctim at December 19, 2017 10:01 AM
Comment #422501
Excellent comparison to the targeted character assassination of accomplished men like Dr. Michael Mann. Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 5:22 PM

He’s on the Thom Hartmann radio show this afternoon.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 19, 2017 1:02 PM
Comment #422503

Is everyone enjoying the festival of corruption?

Today’s GOP has to be one of the most craven parties in American history. Remember how they used to be so concerned about the debt and deficits, and the debt ceiling, and a fiscal cliff? Remember all those deficit hawks?

Poof! It’s magic! Suddenly none of those things matter. Now, corporate tax cuts would be fine if it involved lowering the rate while broadening the base of corporations that actually pay, but that is not what is going to happen. Simplifying taxes for the middle class and poor is fine, but NOT for corporations. A complex set of rules on pass-throughs for certain ownerships will be a full-time employment act for accountants.

It is fun to watch GOP Senators and Congressman make objections, only to have their objections quietly and mysteriously disappear. The corruption is so in-your-face the Republicans barely try to even hide it.

Oh! And remember all those promises by Trump about how hedge fund managers would lose they carry-interest exemption, allowing billionaires to pay at a rate of 15%, less than their secretaries? Well, that promise went out the window.

It is an extremely unpopular bill, with 55% opposing, and 32% supporting.

But is it any wonder the GOP is celebrating this festival of corruption? The next year could easily be consumed by prosecutions of a whole gaggle of GOP crooks and traitors. Also, a lot of Republicans are going to be unemployed come next November. Time to pay off the donors and make sure their families are paid with cushy jobs.

Posted by: phx8 at December 19, 2017 7:03 PM
Comment #422504

phx8 asks; “Remember all those deficit hawks?”

Yes, I am one of them and the Obama answer was to raise the national debt by $10 Trillion. Liberals, including phx8, and their chief guru and economic professor; Paul Krugman, told us that debt and deficits didn’t matter.

Now they matter?

Liberals are experiencing a “brain-fart” moment. Obama’s $10 Trillion in additional debt is REAL. The CBO estimate of $1.5 Trillion over ten years is merely a GUESS.

We read that Black unemployment has reached a new low not seen for decades. They will soon also get a very nice tax break along with millions of other working Americans.

We understand the Liberal political agenda. Raise taxes, raise revenue, increase regulations and when folks are really hurting; give them a few scraps from the Democrat table. Tell them that only government can help them as they certainly can not help themselves.

phx8 and his Liberal Pals are supporting a failed economic theory. It has never worked, anywhere in the world.

We are pleased that Liberals will also benefit from the efforts of President Trump and the Republican congress.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 19, 2017 7:31 PM
Comment #422507

So… It is Obama’s fault the Republicans are going to increase the deficit and add over a trillion dollars to the debt? Obama made them do it? Thanks, Obama.

And thanks to the latest provision added to the tax bill- the Corker Kickback- a big real estate write-off will add over $400 billion to the cost. It will also skew the returns even more towards the richest of the rich. Thanks to the latest change, the top 1% will receive 83% of the benefits. Gee, I wonder who else would benefit from favorable tax legislation on real estate assets. Hmmm… Let me see…

Trump claims he will not benefit from the tax bill. Virtually no one believes that whopper- yet another example of why no one should be allowed in the White House without revealing their taxes. More polls on the legislation: one shows only 24% approve, and another shows just 20%. There is not enough lipstick in the world to make this look good.

It has been pointed out this will be the largest transfer of wealth from the lower and middle class to the rich in American history. That is quite an achievement. It is a shame the Republicans voting for this will be rewarded by their donors after getting kicked out of office, but they are impervious to public shaming.

Posted by: phx8 at December 19, 2017 10:51 PM
Comment #422523

Remember how? Hmmmm

I remember watching dem Senators and Congressmen make objections to the PPACA, only to have their objections quietly disappear.
I remember how dems used to claim that they ‘cared’ about the middle class, but then intentionally jacked our health care costs through the roof by passing the PPACA.
I remember the PPACA having poor polling support.
I remember all those promises from Obama about saving $2500, keeping our plans and doctors. Promises that all went out the window.

Leftist opposition to tax cuts is based only on two things:
Envy of those who have more, and fear that bigger pay checks will cost them votes.

“It has been pointed out this will be the largest transfer of wealth from the lower and middle class to the rich in American history”

I have heard this talking-point a lot in the past few days, Phx8. How exactly is this tax bill taking money from my pocket and putting it in the pockets of the rich?

Posted by: kctim at December 20, 2017 9:21 AM
Comment #422524

So kctim, this “tax reform”(lol)bill- it’s revenge for the ACA? You guys felt slighted so you ran so fast with the tax bill you have to go back to correct all the errors in it for revenge? How does that help the Trump supporters when it isn’t a 35% tax cut for the middle class, as Trump promised in his campaign, but a giveaway to wealthy corporate donors? Is this what you guys had in mind when it came to draining the swamp? Really?

The elephant in the room remains the build up of debt during the good times in order to give tax cuts to those doing the best. It was only two eras ago this was a horrendous problem if you believed repubs and now it is just starving the beast.

The lies used to perpetrate the tax cuts demeans the Trump administration and the members of Congress who spout the nonsense. You guys have it all going your way and you seem to want to shoot yourself in the foot now. Kansas is still reeling from the starve the beast laws passed by the conservatives in the state. Why?

I mean you control both houses of congress, the administration and the courts not to mention most of the states. You have a solid system of voter suppression and gerrymandering in place to help keep the repubs in power for a good while. Why blow it by telling us it is to keep our corporations competitive in the global marketplace. They are competitive and they are hoarding cash for crying out loud. You want competitive why not try universal healthcare like the rest of the first world has?

“As tyrants take control of democracies, they typically do 7 things:

3. They repeatedly lie to the public.”

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2017 12:17 PM
Comment #422525

“It was only two ears ago” should be “It was only two years ago”.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2017 12:19 PM
Comment #422526

Revenge for the ACA? Um, no. I made no such claim, J2. I was, again, merely pointing out and laughing at the lefts hypocrisy.

Any tax cut is beneficial to anybody who actually pays taxes.
Significant spending cuts are badly needed.

“Kansas is still reeling from the starve the beast laws passed by the conservatives in the state. Why?”

1 - Politics: Fear of losing elections prevented them from cutting spending.
2 - Oil, gas and agriculture downturns.
3 - Activist courts.

I do not envy others, J2, so I am not fixated on what they have as you are. What a person or business does with their money is of no concern to me.

“You want competitive why not try universal healthcare like the rest of the first world has?”

Because unlike the rest of the world, our individual rights and freedoms limit what government is allowed to force on us.

“As tyrants take control of democracies, they typically do 7 things: 3. They repeatedly lie to the public.”

Unfortunately, you only care when the lies do not benefit you or the agenda you support.

Posted by: kctim at December 20, 2017 1:28 PM
Comment #422527
I was, again, merely pointing out and laughing at the lefts hypocrisy.

I’m, sure you thought that was actually an issue kctim but the facts are the repubs had every chance to participate in the PPACA process which was much longer and thorough than the what the repubs did this past month or so. I would also suggest your memory may need tuned up a bit.

Re: Kansas a court following the state constitution is hardly an activist court kctim. Other states did better with oil/gas agriculture downturns. Politics! My god man the conservatives ran the state they cut till they bled and it didn’t work. You need to face facts kctim, the trinkle on theory is a failed model and it is common knowledge around the world everywhere except in conservative ideology.


so I am not fixated on what they have as you are.

I don’t know which is sadder kctim, you using such an inane talking point without any cause to do so or you thinking it it is relevant to the conversation.

Because unlike the rest of the world, our individual rights and freedoms limit what government is allowed to force on us.

Wow you just keep going further and further into the nonsensical kctim. Do you honestly think we are the only country with individual rights and freedoms! Do you actually believe this nonsense of being forced into health care limits our freedom! You are dragging the bottom of the nonsensical ideology barrel kctim, bringing these old relics out.

You know kctim I would like to agree that any tax cut is a good tax cut but remember your side telling us about the debt, well it is still there and you now want to increase it substantially. Tax cuts during the good times just don’t make sense when the country is at war and in debt.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2017 3:39 PM
Comment #422528

I didn’t mention the process, J2. Phx8 brought up his opinions on supposed corruption, polling and promises, and I was simply reminding him that the same thing happened with the ACA.

Whereabouts in Kansas are you, J2? I’m right on its border with Missouri. Would be pretty cool if we could get together for a beer or two.
We could discuss how the courts are defining funding requirements and “fair” distribution. We can discuss how the downturn in oil/gas/ag etc…has hurt the state coffers. We can discuss how Conservatives did NOT accompany tax cuts with significant spending cuts.

Seeing how you are parroting the standard lines of ‘tax cuts for the wealth’ and ‘a giveaway to wealthy corporate donors’, your fixation on how much others pay in taxes is very relevant to the conversation.

“Do you honestly think we are the only country with individual rights and freedoms!”

It is fact, J2. Sorry.
From religion to guns to privacy to choice, there is no other country that enjoys the same individual rights and freedoms we were meant to have.

“Do you actually believe this nonsense of being forced into health care limits our freedom!”

By its very definition, being forced to do something against your will is the loss of freedom. I think your emotions got the best of you when typing that sentence.

“but remember your side telling us about the debt”

Seeing how my side always says the same thing, of course I remember: Government should only be funded in order to run government, not lives, outcomes or desires.
Unfortunately, my side has no say in how things are.

“well it is still there and you now want to increase it substantially.”

Nope. I want the massive spending cuts that are needed to decrease it “substantially.” Until that happens, I will gladly take back any penny that has been stolen from me.

Posted by: kctim at December 20, 2017 4:59 PM
Comment #422529

“Tax cuts during the good times just don’t make sense…”

We understand j2t2. During the entire eight years of Obama there were no “good times” despite borrowing $10 Trillion. One would think at least a few dollars would have “trickled down” to us peons. Black and Hispanic employment suffered despite all the empty Democrat promises.

It is amusing to read both j2t2 and his “letter opposite” phx8 worry about Republicans suffering at the polls come the 2018 mid-term elections because of the tax legislation.

Really Guys…you need a better “Shtick”. Your comments are petrifying.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 20, 2017 5:04 PM
Comment #422530
We understand j2t2. During the entire eight years of Obama there were no “good times” despite borrowing $10 Trillion.

Royal lets remember what GWB left behind for Obama and compare it to what Obama left for Trump. Seems to me hemorrhaging millions of jobs a month to almost full employment is quite an accomplishment considering most of the time the repubs controlled the Congress and didn’t do much to help the American people preferring party over country politics.

That being said Trump has told us how good things are now. Yet you defend the tax cuts while knowing it will increase the deficit and debt considerably, without trying to bail us out of an economic depression.

Black and Hispanic employment suffered despite all the empty Democrat promises.

Dems were in the minority in Congress Royal why are you blaming them for empty promises? You bleated so much about Obama using executive orders yet now you come up with this BS! Even if it is true, which I doubt, where did you get this myth from? While we are on this subject doesn’t this claim kinda defeat the “illegal immigrants are taking our jobs” mantra you conservatives have been bellering about for years?

Royal I’m not worrying about Repubs suffering at the polls in the mid-terms, I am asking why lie about the tax cuts with all you guys have going? Why do you accept the lie after years of demanding the deficit and debt be cut, that is the height of hypocrisy.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 20, 2017 6:09 PM
Comment #422531

“Yet you defend the tax cuts while knowing it will increase the deficit and debt considerably…”

Sorry j2t2, wrong again. I know nothing of the sort. CBO is just a guesstimate…or do you know something for certain? Has CNN, Schumer or Pelosi whispered in your ear?

Please tell us how well blacks and Hispanics fared under eight years of Obama. I double-dog-dare you. In less than one year in office; both groups have seen unemployment levels drop to decades-low numbers.

How tall are you j2t2; that would be the “height of hypocrisy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 20, 2017 6:18 PM
Comment #422534

I am anticipating the 2018 Democrat Party Platform.

It will contain a promise to increase the tax on middle class working Americans.

It will contain a promise to remove all border crossing obstacles and present each illegal coming over the border with a cash gift of $25,000 to get them started.

It will contain a promise to end fossil fuel use and join the world in fighting MMGW by immediately sending $1 Trillion to Brussels as a sign of our good faith effort.

It will end the requirement of our NATO allies to meet their promise in defense spending.

It will promise our black and Hispanic citizens a return to unemployment and resumption of living on government largess poverty aid.

It will promise to make it illegal to not pay health care premiums even if no coverage is provided by that payment.

It will protect our colleges and universities from the speech of Republicans and Conservatives on campus. All such speech will be considered a hate crime.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 20, 2017 7:29 PM
Comment #422558

j2

“Royal lets remember what GWB left behind for Obama and compare it to what Obama left for Trump.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE

The housing bubble was not Bush’s fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

Posted by: dbs at December 21, 2017 8:06 AM
Comment #422562
I know nothing of the sort. CBO is just a guesstimate…or do you know something for certain? Has CNN, Schumer or Pelosi whispered in your ear?

Royal denial and fake news is your response! Ha spoken like a true Trump follower. Then to have the cajones to ask who is whispering in my ear, no integrity left in you Royal. Tell you what find an economist that has said this tax cut would pay for itself other than the discredited Laffler.

Speaking of hypocrisy Royal here is the deficit/debt projections that you once blathered about when Obama was president

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/how-much-will-trumps-tax-plan-cost

Posted by: j2t2 at December 21, 2017 11:57 AM
Comment #422563
The housing bubble was not Bush’s fault.

Oh please dbs stop with the nonsense.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 21, 2017 11:59 AM
Comment #422564
Whereabouts in Kansas are you, J2? I’m right on its border with Missouri.

Kctim. I’m in NE Colorado not Kansas. Yes a couple of beers would be fun, I’ll let you know if I head that way.


Seeing how you are parroting the standard lines of ‘tax cuts for the wealth’ and ‘a giveaway to wealthy corporate donors’, your fixation on how much others pay in taxes is very relevant to the conversation.

Repeating the facts is different that parroting kctim. Even Repubs in the Senate have said this is for their wealthy donors so they will keep the money coming. Progressive taxation over the years has paid off the WWII debt. It was Kennedy cutting taxes and going to war that has kept us in debt until the starve the beast strategy of the Reagan era and the GWB tax cuts while going to war that have left the country deeper in debt than we should be.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 21, 2017 12:19 PM
Comment #422565

J2

What nonsense would that be ? The Bush administration warned about the risks with Fannie and Freddie, and it was democrats, mostly Schumer, and Frank who dismissed it as no big deal. Or how about the repeal of Glass Steagal, which was signed by Clinton. Both which predate the Bush administration.

Posted by: dbs at December 21, 2017 12:34 PM
Comment #422567

Many thanks for the video links dbs. No “fake” news there. Of course j2t2 did not watch as that would destroy his fantasy world.

Last chance j2t2. Are CBO projections accurate and considered “facts”?

PS. Why is a link to an April 2017 article important today?

“Even Repubs in the Senate have said this is for their wealthy donors so they will keep the money coming.”

Links to Quotes please j2t2, or simply slink away.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2017 2:20 PM
Comment #422569
Sorry j2t2, wrong again. I know nothing of the sort. CBO is just a guesstimate…or do you know something for certain? Has CNN, Schumer or Pelosi whispered in your ear?

There are guesstimates and there are educated forecasts. Republicans ignore the CBO and other trusted experts at their own peril. Is it possible that the CBO is wrong here? Sure, but the GOP’s preferred projection requires a steady 2.9% gdp growth for an entire decade. This feat has never been accomplished in any developed country at any point in recorded history.


Please tell us how well blacks and Hispanics fared under eight years of Obama. I double-dog-dare you. In less than one year in office; both groups have seen unemployment levels drop to decades-low numbers.

The trend in African-American Unemployment is no better under Trump than it was during Obama’s second term.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=V0F#0

I am anticipating the 2018 Democrat Party Platform.

Your platform is no more accurate than your nomenclature. There’s no such thing as a “Democrat” Party. Go back to bed Royal Flush, it is past your bed time.

Many thanks for the video links dbs. No “fake” news there.

Nothing in those videos indicates that FNMA or FDMA “caused” anything. GSEs were victims of the mistakes of private banks and nothing else. Democrats were right to say what they said a decade ago because there would not have been any problems if it wasn’t for the witches’ brew of MBSs, CDSs and whatnot that crashed the economy. It is those unregulated private interests that j2t2 refers.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 21, 2017 4:31 PM
Comment #422570

“There’s no such thing as a “Democrat” Party.”

Well Warren, you’re almost correct. In a few more years they will be gone.

Jobless claims are the lowest since 1973

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/19/news/economy/us-economy-jobless-claims/index.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2017 5:03 PM
Comment #422571

More Great news to celebrate in the new year.

Prosecutors ask FBI agents for info on Uranium One deal

“On the orders of Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Justice Department prosecutors have begun asking FBI agents to explain the evidence they found in a now dormant criminal investigation into a controversial uranium deal that critics have linked to Bill and Hillary Clinton, multiple law enforcement officials told NBC News.”

I believe a “special counsel” will be appointed.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2017 5:44 PM
Comment #422572

RF,

There never was a Democrat party, there will always be a Democratic party.

I believe a “special counsel” will be appointed

Why isn’t Jeff Sessions fit for the job?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 21, 2017 5:54 PM
Comment #422573

Well Warren, I hope you are correct. The Democrat Party has a long and significant history. There may still be time for Democrats to avoid falling off the cliff of extremism.

I believe Jeff Sessions has a job Warren.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2017 6:20 PM
Comment #422574

Isn’t it Jeff Sessions’ job to lead the department of justice, the institution tasked with investigating and prosecuting federal crimes in this country?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 21, 2017 6:47 PM
Comment #422575

Is it difficult to play dumb Warren. I have never tried that, but you make it appear easy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 21, 2017 7:19 PM
Comment #422576

Refusing to answer my question makes you the expert at that game, RF.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 21, 2017 9:57 PM
Comment #422577

Warped, the answer to your question is yes Sessions is capable but because Democrats, liberals and progressives would scream bias or some other BULLS××T a special council would be advised, but even if that happens cry baby democrats and liberals will come up with some BULLS××T.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at December 22, 2017 1:28 AM
Comment #422583

warren

“There’s no such thing as a “Democrat” Party.”

Actually, royal flush is correct. The proper name is the “democrat party”, not the “democratic party”.

Posted by: dbs at December 22, 2017 7:47 AM
Comment #422585
liberals and progressives would scream bias or some other BULLS××T a special council would be advised, but even if that happens cry baby democrats and liberals will come up with some BULLS××T.

Projecting much, aren’t we? There is no reason not to entrust Sessions with that investigation as far as I can see. He has no conflicts of interest in the Uranium One matter.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 22, 2017 8:12 AM
Comment #422586

Warren

Appearance is everything. An independent 3rd party should Handel the investigation. Either way it will be described as a witch hunt by the left.

Posted by: dbs at December 22, 2017 8:27 AM
Comment #422589

Well, that’s because it is a witch hunt. The matter was already investigated to death last year. The motivation for reopening this is purely partisan. Remember:

1. Hillary Clinton was not personally involved in CFIUS decision-making. The State Department’s role in CFIUS was handled by a subordinate unconnected to the Clinton Foundation.

2. The sale of Uranium One was approved by all the other members of CFIUS (Treasury, Justice, Homeland Security, Defense, Commerce, Energy, US trade rep and the office of science & technology policy). There is zero evidence that anyone at these agencies had any connection in any shape or form to the Clinton Foundation.

3. Frank Giustra, the Uranium One investor who donated $131 million to the Clinton Foundation, divested himself from Uranium One in 2007 and had no financial interest in the sale to Rosatom

4. Any uranium Rosatom mines in Wyoming today must be sold domestically. Russia owns the financial benefits of that mine, but has none of the strategic benefits.

5. Uranium mined in Wyoming constitutes a trivial proportion of US Uranium consumption. We import 89% of our Uranium, mostly from Canada, Australia and the former USSR.

Put those 5 facts together and I think everyone in Chappaqua will sleep soundly at night. Also, note that these facts will not change with additional investigation or gathering of evidence.

Now, if Jeff Sessions wants to spend precious DoJ money going over the past investigations to verify that the i’s are dotted and the t’s are crossed, he can have it. But, I see zero reason to appoint a special counsel unless there is a belief that Jeff Sessions cannot be impartial with this matter.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 22, 2017 10:02 AM
Comment #422593

And the BULLS××T starts.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at December 22, 2017 10:30 AM
Comment #422594

But, WP, what about the Upsidaisium and Unobtainium?

Posted by: ohrealy at December 22, 2017 11:14 AM
Comment #422598

Political commentator William Safire wrote in 1993 that the Democrat of Democrat Party “does conveniently rhyme with autocrat, plutocrat, and worst of all, bureaucrat”.

We are pleased that our Democrat Pals are worry-free about reopening the investigation of “Uranium-gate”.

The FBI was denied subpoena power and the investigation ended under the Obama administration. Now, we hope to see the rest of the story. We know Warren and others of his ilk always want the truth to be revealed as do we.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 22, 2017 1:58 PM
Comment #422641

RF,

I am not familiar with any instances whereby the FBI had probable cause to investigate anything related to Uranium One, but were denied subpoena power. Nonetheless, I am welcome to further investigation by the Department of Justice as long as they follow the long held traditions of American Justice and give the targets of the investigation their due process rights.

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Comment #422963

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