Third Party & Independents Archives

​Jerusalem Already Is The Capital of Israel - Embassies Belong in Capitals

Where’s the Knesset? No, that’s not a bad set-up for a bad joke somewhere in the Catskills a generation or two ago. It’s a simple, geographical question: Where is the Knesset - Israel’s unicameral parliament - located?

In Tel Aviv?

Yes, for a few months from March to December back in 1949, the Knesset was located or held or celebrated or whatever verb you think appropriate for parliamentary functions, in what was then the Kessem Cinema, located in Tel Aviv. Every other moment since in modern Israel's history, the Knesset has been located in Jerusalem, Israel's historical and religious and symbolic and political capital.

So what the heck is all this talk and shock and anger of President Trump making a statement that recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital? Jerusalem is and has been the capital of modern Israel, to say nothing of kingdoms past and eternal.

The controversy - like with Reagan and Clinton and Bush 43 when they too made similar statements - is because there are no longer any embassies in Jerusalem. Why? Because Jerusalem is contested territory as Danielle Pletka explains in AEI. Some states claim East Jerusalem should be part of a future Palestine state. Some say all of Jerusalem is Palestine's, whatever that actually means nowadays.

Well what it means is that those states that insist Palestine should have control of at least East Jerusalem also would, in their majority, really like to annihilate the state of Israel and drive the remaining infidels - Jewish and Christian into the seas and let us all drown or perish in holy fire. And out of the goodness of their hearts European diplomats and United Nations mandarins and radical anti-Semitic professors in elite universities, all insist that no country can ever again be so foolish as to recognize - diplomatically that is - Jerusalem.

We need a peace deal, they say, and on the basis of that deal we'll then carve up Jerusalem like a turkey at Thanksgiving, with perhaps some part of their holy city left for the people of Israel. So a waiver gets signed every 6 months that keeps putting off actually moving the American embassy. It's all part of the Jerusalem Embassy Act passed by Congress in 1995. Said Act contains a Section 7 titled ... wait for it ... Presidential Waiver; which is an escape hatch for the executive and through which every president, since the Act was passed in 1995, has crawled out every six months right on schedule. Including President Trump who signed the waiver last June.

The waiver was put into the Act for national security reasons. So if you believe that moving an embassy will cause the Middle East to ignite into bloodshed and war ... oh wait. Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Iran, ISIS attacks in Egypt at last count. But moving an embassy is impossible because Hamas might launch rockets into Israel?

The foreign policy establishment want no moving of embassies until their shimmering oasis of a Peace Deal between Israel and the Palestinians is a reality. So where is the cognitive dissonance? In the repeated and failed attempts to secure a deal? Or in Trump saying it's finally time to make the move?

Posted by AllardK at December 8, 2017 4:56 PM
Comments
Comment #422260

Moving the US embassy should have been done in exchange for concessions from Israel to aid the peace process such as dismantling the West Bank settlements. Now, Trump has given away the farm and has nothing to show for it apart from the laud of political activists.

Nevertheless, it was a shrewd political move on Trump’s part. The “Days of Rage” will end and Palestine will be no different than it was last week. Trump scored political points with his base and did not pay much of a diplomatic price overseas to do it. On the other hand, it’s quite a waste of taxpayer money and resources to replace a perfectly fine embassy for one in Jerusalem.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 8, 2017 5:18 PM
Comment #422263

Allard, the state of Israel considers it’s capital to be Jerusalem, and has done so since recorded history. As you pointed out, congress passed the “Embassy Act” in 1995 and we now have a president who has acted to enforce the act.

The claims that moving our embassy will end the “peace process” is hilarious. There is no peace process in place, and never was.

God Bless the state of Israel and God Bless President Trump

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 8, 2017 5:52 PM
Comment #422264

Just wondering, what did Republicans think of the decision not to build any US embassies in Berlin during the cold war despite the fact that East Berlin was the capital of the German Democratic Republic by every conceivable measure?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 8, 2017 6:14 PM
Comment #422265

Warren is “Just wondering…”

I am just wondering, was there an “Embassy Act” passed by congress regarding the location of our Embassy in Germany?

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 8, 2017 6:23 PM
Comment #422268

Well, part of this issue is whether or not Congress should or should not have passed an “Embassy Act” at all.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 8, 2017 6:40 PM
Comment #422269

Well, that is not an “issue” for anyone except you Warren. Will you please provide links to this issue over the years since the Act. How about giving us some history of the Act’s passage by Congress.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 8, 2017 6:54 PM
Comment #422275

Royal Flush,

Apparently, you aren’t interested in a constructive conversation. I am well aware of the American & Israeli Right’s longstanding goal of steamrolling the peace process with things like the embassy act. Bush & Obama wisely exploited waivers permitted by the act to prevent its bad ideas from takin effect, but unfortunately, that wisdom is not present in our current leadership. Maybe it would have been wiser for past leaders to advocate the law’s repeal, but that is neither here nor there today.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 9, 2017 7:38 AM
Comment #422280

warren

The Palestinians have no intention of ever living peacefully with the Israelis. It has and always will be there intention to wipe them off the face of the earth. Believing that the Israelis can change this by giving them land, and showing them that they mean to live peacefully with the Palestinians will do nothing but hasten their demise. To believe otherwise is naive. The only thing that will maintain peace is for the Palestinians to understand that continuing to attack Israel will be the end of their existence. There people in this world that understand nothing but force.

Posted by: dbs at December 9, 2017 11:11 AM
Comment #422281

Dbs,

I appreciate your sincerity. You believe peace is impossible without unconditional surrender from the people you don’t like. For me, such peace cannot really be peace if it’s spoiled by the seeds of injustice.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 9, 2017 11:46 AM
Comment #422283

warren

Peace is not an option when one party is not interested in peace. In that case compromise is seen as a weakness to be exploited. This is one of those situations.

Posted by: dbs at December 9, 2017 11:58 AM
Comment #422284

Warped, There will be no peace in the Mid East. It’s a religious thing. The disputes between Jews and Islam have been going on since Isaac and Ishmael. Peace will come at the return of Christ not before.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 9, 2017 12:06 PM
Comment #422286

“Bush & Obama wisely exploited waivers permitted by the act . bad ideas from takin effect…”

Warren, do you ever review and reconsider what you write?

President’s employing “waivers” over a period of twenty plus years is evidence of failing to lead. Congress never rescinded the “ACT” and expected it to be honored at some point when we had a president who recognized the folly of eternal capitulation.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 9, 2017 2:42 PM
Comment #422288


“President’s employing “waivers” over a period of twenty plus years is evidence of failing to lead.”

What a load of crap.

Trump is, at best, throwing s**t at the wall to see if it sticks. If it does he’s a mighty leader, if it doesn’t it’s someone else’s fault.

Trump vision of leading is to be a pot stirrer.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at December 9, 2017 3:12 PM
Comment #422290

We wonder what cave our Pal Rocky has been hiding in. He has missed all the good news for Americans since President Trump took office.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 9, 2017 3:31 PM
Comment #422291


“We wonder what cave our Pal Rocky has been hiding in.”

Is this the best you got? I’ve wiped more clever detritus off my shoe.

Perhaps, in your cave, you might have noticed that our fearless leader has a popularity rating in the low thirties. Soon we will see what his policies do when they actually take effect in this fiscal year, when he’s not riding Obama’s coat tails.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at December 9, 2017 4:27 PM
Comment #422292

Sorry Rocky…you are not worth “my best”. I save that for Libbies who can think, rather than just respond.

I miss our Pal Stephen Daugherty and sure hope he is OK. While I mostly disagreed with his politics, his comments, unlike yours, were cogent and original.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 9, 2017 4:55 PM
Comment #422293

“I save that for Libbies who can think, rather than just respond.”

You see, Royal, there’s your problem. If you’d just step outside the echo chamber for just a minute, you might understand that there are those of us to your left that aren’t all “Libbies”.

I didn’t need to be a “Libbie” to understand that Trump was a dumpster fire in 2015 before he announced, and I said so on these pages.

Save your pigeon hole for someone else.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at December 9, 2017 5:11 PM
Comment #422294

Perhaps we should employ phx8’s extensive knack for information to enlighten Rocky Marks on the achievements Trump has made in the short time he’s been in The Office Of The President Of The United States!

Are you going to get right on that, phx8? Show us how well you research everything, not just lefty talking points. Bring Rocky Marks up to speed on Trump’s accomplishments since he’s been elected to The Presidency Of The United States Of America!

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 9, 2017 5:37 PM
Comment #422295

I’d be hard pressed to name anything significant.

The Trump administration has created 1.7 million jobs to date. During the same months in the last year of the Obama administration, 1.86 million were created.

The unemployment rate continues to drop in the same trend line it exhibited during the Obama administration, and the stock market continues to set new highs. These are good things. A good economy was handed to Trump by the Obama administration.

ISIS has taken a beating and Raqqa fell. In December 2016 the Obama administration wanted to take Raqqa and asked the incoming Trump administration if that would be acceptable. The Trump administration refused to give permission. The Turks did not want to see Kurdish troops take the ISIS capitol. Flynn was being paid by the Turks. Did it influence his decision? Here we are, a year later, and when the Kurds took the capitol Trump immediately withdrew recognition of a major Kurdish group of fighters.

The GOP stole a SCOTUS seat by failing to follow the Constitutional requirement for “advice and consent,” followed by destroying the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees. It happened. It was not something to be proud of, but it did happen.

However, the Trump administration did manage to give a guy a lifelong federal judge position who had only attended law school for 3 years, never tried a case, and neglected to mention he as the husband of the White House Counsel’s Chief of Staff. Whoops! This guy, Talley, was one of only four nominees EVER to receive a unanimous 14-0 disapproval vote from the ABA.

Posted by: phx8 at December 9, 2017 5:55 PM
Comment #422296

Other things that happened- I don’t know if they could be considered accomplishments, but they happened:

The US announced it would move its embassy to Jerusalem. It was a puzzling announcement because, after decades of holding off, we unilaterally announced it without any negotiations and without gaining anything in return. In essence, we leaned across the negotiating table between the Palestinians and Israelis and poked the Palestinians in the eye for no reason.

The US withdrew from TPP. For doing so we received nothing whatsoever. The other 11 countries are proceeding with TPP, a free trade sphere comprising 1/6 of the world’s economy, and now the US is excluded from favorable terms. China has been granted economic leadership. For doing this we got… well… nothing.

International leadership by the US fell off the table when the US unilaterally withdrew from the Paris Climate accords, the only nation in the world to do so. For this we received… umm… nothing.

Cronies of the fossil fuel industry now control the EPA. It is an achievement? Doubtful. But it did happen.

While relations with virtually every country in the world have deteriorated and suffered, one significant achievement is that the Russians really like us, and Putin talks with Trump all the time, and our president refuses to say anything negative about the Russians or the interference with our election. Let’s here it for better relations with out new owners!

Posted by: phx8 at December 9, 2017 8:05 PM
Comment #422297

There we have it. News in a nutshell, Democratics good, Republicans bad. Why have a 1/2 hour news show when you can say it all in one sentence?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 10, 2017 10:16 AM
Comment #422300

WW,

Aren’t you comments simply “conservatives good” & “liberals bad”? I am missing the purpose of your critique. It’s not like phx8 would criticize Republicans if they were raising social welfare spending, increasing environmental regulations, protecting abortion rights or standing firm against the Likudnik lobby.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 10, 2017 2:47 PM
Comment #422306

Warren, you forgot to list severe gun control, open borders, guaranteed income, capitulation to NK demands, and the right to deny free speech for those we disagree with.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 10, 2017 5:55 PM
Comment #422307
Other things that happened- I don’t know if they could be considered accomplishments, but they happened:

I think that if we should describe what Trump has done we should say “things un-happened”.


All those things that happened during Obama’s mistake are getting un-happened.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 10, 2017 6:40 PM
Comment #422318
International leadership by the US fell off the table when the US unilaterally withdrew from the Paris Climate accords, the only nation in the world to do so. For this we received… umm… nothing. Posted by: phx8 at December 9, 2017 8:05 PM

We might get carbon tariffs on all US goods going into the EU. Go Team Coal!

Posted by: ohrealy at December 11, 2017 2:57 PM
Comment #422322

ohrealy

“We might get carbon tariffs on all US goods going into the EU. Go Team Coal!”

Not gonna happen. Turn around is fair play, and we could in turn slap tariffs on any nation that votes to sanction us.

Posted by: dbs at December 12, 2017 9:18 AM
Comment #422324

ohrealy

Also bear in mind the Paris accord was never ratified by congress, so technically we are not bound to it.

Posted by: dbs at December 12, 2017 11:04 AM
Comment #422334

Anyway, are there any Republicans willing to explain how the United States benefits from moving an embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Why is it better to do this instead of repealing the aforementioned Jerusalem Embassy Act?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 4:14 PM
Comment #422336

Because Israel is one of our closest allies, it’s their land, Jerusalem is their capitol, and they want our embassy there?

Posted by: kctim at December 12, 2017 5:03 PM
Comment #422340

The United States benefits when we cooperate with an ally involving choices they make for their country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2017 5:37 PM
Comment #422341

Do they really care where it is? Every other country in the world has their embassy in Tel Aviv and it doesn’t cause any complaints.

And you still haven’t answered my questions. How does it serve AMERICAN interests to move the embassy?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 5:39 PM
Comment #422344

Our embassy should be where Israel says it should be. IF they are happy with it being in Tel Aviv, keep it there. If they want it in their capital Jerusalem, move it.

Cooperation and respect for one of our closest allies serves our interests very well, Warren. A lot more than pandering to the heathens who want them wiped off the map does.

Posted by: kctim at December 12, 2017 5:57 PM
Comment #422345

I am quite confident that most Israelis were content with the status quo with the US embassy in Tel Aviv. Moving the embassy will not strengthen our alliance appreciably. This is just a giveaway for the evangelical far right here and the Likudnic far right over there.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 6:41 PM
Comment #422346

Warren Porter asks; “Do they really care where it is?”

Don’t they?

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2017 6:42 PM
Comment #422349

I am reminded by Wikipedia that “One of Israel’s Basic Laws, the 1980 Jerusalem Law, refers to Jerusalem as the country’s undivided capital. All branches of the Israeli government are located in Jerusalem, including the Knesset (Israel’s parliament), the residences of the Prime Minister and President, and the Supreme Court.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2017 6:58 PM
Comment #422350

Best wishes to our Jewish friends as they begin the celebration of the first night of Hanukkah.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #422351

Let’s look at it this way.

Let’s use mileage driven as the only criteria used to determine where the American embassy should be. Are there an excessive amount of miles driven between the 2 cities? Could that excessive mileage be eliminated by moving the embassy?

I think the real reason Trump decided to move the embassy is because the UN doesn’t recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capitol. The UN still doesn’t, but the US will.

I don’t really care where it is. Aren’t there more Jewish people in the U.S. than there are in Israel?


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Comment #422392

The 1980 Jerusalem Law makes no mention of foreign diplomatic missions to Israel. There are countries that have their legislatures and executives housed in different cities than the one hosting foreign embassies (South Africa, Bolivia, etc).

Warren Porter asks; “Do they really care where it is?”

Don’t they?

Talk to an Israeli. The location of a foreign embassy is probably the 9736th item on their priority list.

quote text
Best wishes to our Jewish friends as they begin the celebration of the first night of Hanukkah.

Thank You.

I think the real reason Trump decided to move the embassy is because the UN doesn’t recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capitol. The UN still doesn’t, but the US will.
Correct. UNSC resolution 478 prohibits any nation from establishing any diplomatic missions in Jerusalem. This goes for both Israel & Palestine and Tel Aviv & Ramallah are substituted accordingly. Trump’s decision is motivated by a desire to needlessly poke the eyes of the UN and Palestine’s allies with zero advantages gained for either the United States or Israel.
Let’s use mileage driven as the only criteria used to determine where the American embassy should be. Are there an excessive amount of miles driven between the 2 cities? Could that excessive mileage be eliminated by moving the embassy?
Tel-Aviv is the population center of Israel and its sprawling metropolis includes 46% of Israel’s population. The entire country is the size of New Jersey. So mileage driven is not going to be big as long as the embassy isn’t in the Negev or north of the Galilee.
I don’t really care where it is. Aren’t there more Jewish people in the U.S. than there are in Israel?
The Jewish populations of each are roughly equal. Posted by: Warren Porter at December 13, 2017 3:49 PM
Comment #422394

So we could have the embassy in New York and still serve half the Jewish population!

Why should we care what city it’s in? Frankly, I don’t see the logic in putting their capital in a city that is as divided as that one is. You’re probably right. Trump is sticking it in the U.N.’s eye. Good for him. The U.N. doesn’t run the world as much as they think they do.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 13, 2017 7:36 PM
Comment #422421

WW,

Our embassy in Israel is meant to serve Israelis, not the whole Jewish community. So no, an embassy in New York makes zero sense. American Jews have no need for a US embassy because they are Americans. I do not know if you are being serious or trying to make a joke, but the notion that Jewish people are perpetually considered foreign is a longstanding anti-Semitic canard. I advise you to be more delicate in the future and avoid anything that might be construed to imply that Jews harbor dual loyalties.

Trump is sticking it in the U.N.’s eye. Good for him. The U.N. doesn’t run the world as much as they think they do.

It’s not just the UN that Trump is sticking it too. It’s also pretty much the whole rest of the world, particularly our Muslim allies and our friends in the liberal democracies of Europe, Oceania and East Asia.

Personally, I don’t even see how it benefits us to poke the UN’s eye. The United Nations, as flawed as it may be, is still meant to enforce international law. How can we expect other countries to follow UN resolutions when the United States blatantly ignores them?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 15, 2017 10:28 AM
Comment #422960

Kami adalah perusahaan terkemuka di bidang pembuatan dan penjualan tempat sampah dengan teknologi canggih inovatif.

Posted by: tempat sampah at January 5, 2018 2:00 AM
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