Third Party & Independents Archives

Will They Decide Before Christmas?​

Time is running out but we should have a vote on Thursday, December 7. Or maybe Friday. They’ll huddle together and decide if they do it before Christmas, perhaps in the next few days. Or if they wait till later, in March perhaps, but Democrats are impatient and want action on their demands now!

So. What will Senator Franken and his family decide?

Oh. You thought it was about the impending government shutdown and how Democrats are trying to shoehorn in (given the age of Schumer and Pelosi and Orr and many senators, such an old-fashioned metaphor is perhaps fitting) their demands for some sort of DACA (or Dreamers if you wish) protection? And if the GOP doesn't give in, then they'll let a shut down happen. At least that's what they say.

Maybe the media should use an algorithm-based generic news format (well they already do for many basic news releases, like in financial news, in fact) and all of us can choose which details to fill in. Because frankly it's hard to keep up. And it's not really Trump's fault either. It's symptomatic of seismic cultural shifts that are throwing up some fairly big changes, one after another.

Let's consider Senator Franken's case, rather than what will likely be a continuing resolution to buy a little more time for the government and it's spending caps.

The latest accusation against Franken comes from a former congressional aide who has stated that then citizen Franken tried to force her into kissing him after a radio interview back in 2006. As he left the studio having been rebuffed by the shocked young woman, he allegedly said this:

It's my right as an entertainer.

If that's a joke Franken, you should have given stand up decades ago and gone straight into politics where the level of deadpan delivery is not quite as demanding as on the comedy circuit. If however Franken - as a very famous comedian - really meant that, this opens up some very uncomfortable issues to say the least.

In 1992, a Judge Lanier was indicted by a grand jury for sexually assaulting several women in his chambers, sometimes while wearing his robes. A lengthy piece in Boston College Law Review studies his case and concludes that the 14th amendment and the right to bodily integrity which derives from it, seems to also incorporate the constitutional right to be free from sexual assault.

No kidding yes. But wait. How long did it take for those rights to bodily integrity to become a recognized consequence of a constitutional amendment, rather than part of the underlying cultural morality (often betrayed or ignored but still accepted by society as right and truthful)? And how does that right survive when dealing with a presumed right of powerful men to behave as they wish towards women in suboordinate positions? Until recently, it often hasn't survived if the man is powerful enough.

One hopes that Senator Franken (never mind Roy Moore who's on another level) recognizes that it was never his right to accost or assault women just because as a rich and powerful entertainer he could get away with it.

If this is how assault is dealt with in the courts (and remember most men don't assault or accost despite what some would have us think, so culture still matters) then let the 14th amendment be interpreted to clearly include this right, as it likely already is being interpreted. Whether the accused is a senator, a candidate, or a freshman in college accused of date rape. Or a president. Due process for all. But no tolerance for what has been overlooked and winked at for far far too long.

Is there, frankly, anything left for Franken to say?

Posted by AllardK at December 6, 2017 11:10 PM
Comments
Comment #422221

The usual brilliant comments here on another stupid article from the garbage bin. Franken never assaulted anyone. To whoever is actually posting these ridiculous garbage articles:

YOU’RE AN IDIOT WHO TURNED THIS SITE INTO GARBAGE!!!!!!

Posted by: ohrealy at December 7, 2017 9:23 AM
Comment #422222

Lumping assault in there furthers the narrative that’s needed to push the agenda.

Posted by: kctim at December 7, 2017 9:34 AM
Comment #422225

Tom Arnold tweets are more accurate than right wing news sources

To put a button on this the only truth about my old pal Leeann Tweeden’s Al Franken story was the picture. The rest was created by KABC colleague & fellow Trump supporter John Phillips & his bud Roger Stone who coached Leeann for weeks to take Al down. Mission accomplished.

I’m #MeToo & don’t doubt any other woman but the Leeann Tweeden-John Phillips-Roger Stone lies & set up of Al Franken were part of a larger smear campaign against Al initiated at the same time Leeann came out at KABC. I have proof. Leeann knows it. It’s a disservice to victims.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 7, 2017 11:15 AM
Comment #422227

Ironic, seeing how far-left SJW hate tweets are what made it possible.

Maybe social media isn’t the best way to force ‘progress.’

Posted by: kctim at December 7, 2017 12:14 PM
Comment #422230

I do not know whether or not the allegations against Franken are true or false. However, I do believe it is better that Franken handle these allegations as a private citizen rather than as a US Senator. If he clears his name, I am sure he will be a shoe-in in a future election and welcomed back to the Senate.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 7, 2017 12:56 PM
Comment #422238

Yea, Democratics are like that. They can forgive their own, but not conservatives.

The left drew first blood with this sexual harassment meme. They’re paying the price. Finally. The double standard sucks. It’s about time the left got a dose of their own medicine. It was obvious the Rinos wouldn’t stick up for themselves.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 7, 2017 5:19 PM
Comment #422245


“It’s about time the left got a dose of their own medicine.”

If it’s duplicity you seek, you need look no further than the mirror. The right can’t seem to admit any wrong, even when it’s staring it in the face.

I think I’ll go find Diogenes and follow him around.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at December 8, 2017 5:41 AM
Comment #422248

ohrealy

“YOU’RE AN IDIOT WHO TURNED THIS SITE INTO GARBAGE!!!!!!”

Grow up

Posted by: dbs at December 8, 2017 7:18 AM
Comment #422249

warren

“If he clears his name, I am sure he will be a shoe-in in a future election and welcomed back to the Senate.”

He will not be allowed back into the senate, either by his party or constituents. Someone else will be given that opportunity.

Posted by: dbs at December 8, 2017 7:24 AM
Comment #422252
I do not know whether or not the allegations against Franken are true or false. However, I do believe it is better that Franken handle these allegations as a private citizen rather than as a US Senator. If he clears his name, I am sure he will be a shoe-in in a future election and welcomed back to the Senate. Posted by: Warren Porter at December 7, 2017 12:56 PM

Franken was not a shoe-in in MN before. I think we’ve seen the last of him in politics. He can do better in satire, as before, when he wrote Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot, and Lying Liars. He has a lot of support from people who don’t want him to resign. Tweeden inadvertently solidified that. He couldn’t call her a liar without looking like a heel. The skit she was complaining about was written 3 years before their interaction. Dems in the Senate wanted him out because of the distraction.

The Rabid Racist Radical Raging Rapist Ratforking party will continue their attack on this country as they have for 40 years since their last dotard was in office.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 8, 2017 10:36 AM
Comment #422256

Ohrealy,

Al Franken probably was the victim of Stone’s ratfuckery, but if had exercised better judgement in the past, these accusations never would have occurred.

Dbs,
2 months ago, Franken was popular and well-liked. His recent downfall is solely the result of a battery of unproven allegations. If Franken can clear his name of those accusations, he has a bright future ahead of him.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 8, 2017 12:05 PM
Comment #422271

Franken should have just lied to a grand jury and the American People.

“I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

See? All is forgotten. How hard is that?

Instead the dumb ass apologizes! Doesn’t he have a clue about how the Democratic mind functions?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 8, 2017 7:38 PM
Comment #422276

WW,

You mean like how Moore & Trump have lied about their own relationships?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 9, 2017 7:51 AM
Comment #422279

Moore and Trump aren’t having a relationship with Franken!

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 9, 2017 10:43 AM
Comment #422282

I’m not sure where you got that idea. I was referring to the lies Trump & Moore have told, denying their sexual misconduct.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 9, 2017 11:50 AM
Comment #422298

What lies?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 10, 2017 10:17 AM
Comment #422299

ALLEGATIONS yes Warped, denying them yes, lies???????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 10, 2017 1:56 PM
Comment #422301

Roy Moore claims he has never met any of these 9 women:
Leigh Corfman
Wendy Miller
Debbie Wesson Gibson
Gloria Thacker Deason
Beverly Young Nelson
Gena Richardson
Becky Gray
Tina Johnson
Kelly Harrison Thorp

2 months ago, none of these women had ever communicated or heard of one another. Yet, they all make a similar claim: Roy Moore sought romantic relationships with teenage girls when he was around 30 years old. Today, I am not going to address the specific allegation of assault claimed by particular individual women. I will only discuss the question of inappropriate relationships between teenagers and grown men, which Moore has also denied.

IIt is possible that Moore is telling the truth and all nine women are lying, but that is fallacious to accept a conclusion simply because it is “possible”. Voters in Alabama have an obligation to weigh the evidence that exists and make their best judgement as to what happened absent absolute proof demonstrating things either way. They need to move beyond thinking about what is possible and towards thinking what is plausible. My conclusion is that while it is possible that Roy More is telling the truth, that is an entirely implausible circumstance.

Now, maybe some of you really do believe that nine women plucked at random from various walks of life are more likely to conspire together to undermine Roy Moore than Roy Moore (twice removed from his judgeship for breaking the law) is likely to tell a lie to save his own behind. However, I am incredulous that anyone sincerely believes that. Particularly so, in light of the fact that Jaime Phillips was not able to get her fraudulent story past The Washington Post’s reporters.

Anyone who believes Roy Moore is telling the truth about not knowing these nine women must offer a cogent explanation demonstrating how so many women conspired together to make similar accusations at roughly the same time. For instance, if there was a certain “Bernie Bernstein” at WaPo going around and offering $10,000 to people that made allegations would be a viable explanation, but we already know that isn’t happening. So what is it? Why are so many people with no bone to pick against Moore (never met him before {according to Moore} and supported Trump in the 2016 election) making these accusations?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 10, 2017 3:13 PM
Comment #422304

WP, you neglected to mention his wife Kayla, whom he spied when she was fifteen and he was twice her age. It’s like Romeo and Juliet, if Romeo was a dirty old man. We’ll find out if the national exposure works for or against him. I would expect Doug Jones to win, except that he prosecuted klansmen, which enough alabamians may hold against him. Oddly, the klan and weed have gone together for at least 30 years. Moore has already said enough to exclude him from the Senate even if he’s elected, but they’ll probably wimp out and seat him, b*thces that they are, going along with president DirT.

Posted by: ohrealy at December 10, 2017 3:57 PM
Comment #422305

Warped, I am not saying those women are lying or telling the truth but until they are proven they are ALLEGATIONS nothing else. I have no say so in the Alabama elections but it seems funny nothing about Moore has come out until now so it wouldn’t surprise me Democrats had a hand in creating this scandal especially with the Trump Dossier. Politics is dirty now in both parties so nothing would surprise me.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 10, 2017 5:25 PM
Comment #422323

KAP,

Absent contrary evidence, I will assume these women are telling the truth. You should too. Ohrealy correctly points out that Kayla Moore is a 10th person who certainly had romantic relations with a 30+ year old man when she was in HS.

Neither of us vote, but this is a public platform that presumably some Alabamans read. Please join me in urging all Alabamans to vote for anyone other than Moore. Doug Jones might disagree with some Alabaman’s politics, but at least he won’t embaress anyone.

As long as this remains in the realm of allegations, I do not feel it is appropriate to subject Moore to any formal punishment (such as incarceration). After all, in the eyes of the law, he is innocent until proven guilty. However there is no such rule in the ballot box. Voters are free to pick their candidate by any metric they choose.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 9:25 AM
Comment #422325

Warped, I will assume NOTHING. I know a 19 year old women that is in love with a 65 year old man. My wife’s mother was married to a man 40 years her senior. That same 19 year old had a crush on me when she was 15 but I never acted on it. Some women like older men. Have you ever heard the phrase ” A woman scorned” so I assume nothing.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 12, 2017 12:06 PM
Comment #422328

Warren great job using logic and rational thought but it is wasted on our conservative friends here on WB.

KAP are you seriously telling us that some old guy in love with a 19 year old has anything to do with Moore sexually assaulting a 14/16 year old minor? Are you suggesting she was in love with Moore, so the assault was alright? Are you suggesting there is no difference between sexual assault and love? Are you suggesting all these women came on to Moore and he fought them off while he was banned for the mall for hunting them down. Are you suggesting all these women were scorned by Moore despite him telling you he didn’t know any of them? So this is their getting even 30 years later?

Using this moronic train of thought is why we as a nation are where we are today. Obama sums up what I have been saying for a long time. When we get this dumbed down that people like KAP, good people, fall for anything their leaders tell them we will all suffer the consequences.


I do have to also mention that I haven’t noticed the “Soros Clinton plan” to ruin Moore mentioned by our conservatives friends here on WB. I think that deserves a round of applause.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 12, 2017 2:23 PM
Comment #422329

j2, Jumping to conclusions again? ACCUSATIONS are not proof of anything. Could be those girls were infatuated with Moore. I brought up the 19 year old to make A POINT. What is MORONIC is the bulls**t you and people like you peddle with your UNFOUNDED ACCUSATIONS. Until there is actual proof it is still he said she said, Unlike Franken where there is PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence. When you and your bunch have ACTUAL proof that an assult was committed and not some he said she said BS. tell us about it. By the way women do lie.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 12, 2017 2:40 PM
Comment #422330

Ohrealy, I think the turnout today determines the winner. Low turnout Moore wins easily. Jones may pull out a squeaker if the turn out is very large Maybe. But even then Moore may still win. You may be giving repubs to much credit for integrity and intelligence after all Moore is running on an anti-establishment platform despite being part of the Alabama establishment the past 40 years. That seems to get by those people in Alabama.


Jones hasn’t won the black dems over in Alabama, let alone any decent repubs or independents. Look up Rachel Martins interview on NPR.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 12, 2017 2:44 PM
Comment #422331

KAP no need to jump to conclusions. Accusations are as far as it can go with Moore. The time limits have long expired. This “no facts” whine from the far right is nothing but nonsense. It comes down to do you believe the cop that told us Moore was banned from the mall and the women who came forward to tell the country of Moore’s past. Or do you believe Moores denial that he knew the women even after your “women scorned” comment.

Using the 19 year old to make a point is irrelevant KAP. So is women can lie because ..well..so..can..men it only clouds the issue. You see KAP it isn’t “he said she said” it is they said, he denied.

You made my points, KAP, first the sound logical reasoning of Warren Porter was wasted on you and secondly is the one about moronic and dumbed down and democracy in danger from good people who fall for any illogical excuse their leaders can come up with.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 12, 2017 3:17 PM
Comment #422332

J2, he said she said, whoever is the lier we may never know. Sound logic would be to NOT make an assumption.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at December 12, 2017 3:50 PM
Comment #422335
A woman scorned

If this was a case of women who were scorned, then that would make Roy Moore a liar. After all, he claimed that he never met these people, which means they were never scorned.

I know a 19 year old women that is in love with a 65 year old man. My wife’s mother was married to a man 40 years her senior. That same 19 year old had a crush on me when she was 15 but I never acted on it. Some women like older men.

1. We aren’t talking about 19 year old adults, we are talking about children aged 14 to 17.

2. Because we are talking about children, whether or not they have romantic feelings for the older person is irrelevant. A child cannot consent to a romantic relationship of this nature. Period.

3. Barring a conspiracy between 9 women, Roy Moore engaged in highly inappropriate romantic relationships when he was in his 30s. The more serious allegations of assault stand on thinner ground because each is an example of he said/she said, but Moore’s general habit of dating children is an example of he said/she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said and she said. That’s not a symmetric situation.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 4:41 PM
Comment #422337

Warped, As I said that same 19 year old was attracted to me at 15. I am not saying that those women are lying and I am not saying they are truthful. What I am saying is I am not assuming either way, but after 30-40 years finely coming forward is a little suspicious especially after that same person has been a candidate in state races.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 12, 2017 5:07 PM
Comment #422338

So KAP it seems you need to reread Warren’s comment # 422301 if you are still sticking with the nonsensical “he said she said” argument.

IMHO it is an unwarranted assumption you make when you tell us we may never know who the liar is KAP. We know, we all know but many do not want to admit Moore is lying because of party over country politics. Many in Alabama went into nonsensical conspiracies that Soros and Clinton funded this attack on Moore. You have to ask yourself how low they will go to keep from admitting they know this is nonsense on their part and vote for Moore. Shows us the type of values these people have.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 12, 2017 5:09 PM
Comment #422339

“Moore is lying because of party over country politics.”

Hmmm…maybe this is a good argument j2t2, but I can’t understand what you are saying.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 12, 2017 5:34 PM
Comment #422342

j2t2 is just incredulous that people give Moore’s version of events equal weight to that of 9 different women. As he should.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 5:43 PM
Comment #422343

So j2 you now claim to have the power of god because you know who is lying. As far as Warren’s comment 422301, it is possible that the women are telling the truth and it is possible they are not. 30-40 year old allegations are kinda hard to prove j2. As the bad guy in “Underseige 2” said ” Assumption is the mother of all F**K UPS.”

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 12, 2017 5:53 PM
Comment #422347

I do not know who is telling the truth and who is lying, but I’m not assigning equal probability to each scenario. I hope you do too.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 12, 2017 6:43 PM
Comment #422348

Warped, I am NOT ASSUMMING anything. Whomever is lying will answer for it sooner or later, more then likely later.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 12, 2017 6:47 PM
Comment #422356

Alabama spoke Jones wins

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at December 12, 2017 10:32 PM
Comment #422362
Hmmm…maybe this is a good argument j2t2, but I can’t understand what you are saying.

Perhaps if I yell louder you can understand it Royal….

“MOORE IS LYING BECAUSE OF PARTY OVER COUNTRY POLITICS”

Hope that helps Royal.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 13, 2017 1:24 AM
Comment #422430
I am NOT ASSUMMING anything.

Yes, you are. You are assuming that the probability that Moore is lying is equal to the probability that the women are lying. Post-election, it is a moot point, but this is a recurring flaw in your thinking. Just because we don’t have inconvertible proof of what happened, we can make reasonable inferences and conclusions about which scenarios are more likely than others.

I should add that your constant appeals to ignorance take a heavily partisan bent. Back in 2015, when we first learned about Hillary’s unauthorized email server, you were among the first to ASSUME that she must’ve stored classified information on said server. This was long before FBI leaks or Comey’s statement saying such. So, you are not incapable of inductive reasoning, just that you choose not to think when it is a Republican’s hide on the hot seat.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 15, 2017 2:55 PM
Comment #422446

Warped, Whomever lied will get theirs in the end. As far as Hillary and her server, If she is doing government business and sending info through e mail there would be a Very High probability that classified MAYERIAL WAS CHANNELED THROUGH THAT SERVER. You would have to be very stupid or Naïve to think otherwise or heavily partisan or in your case a true blue Hillary lopver. Assuming had nothing to do with it. It would be pretty far fetched to think that there was no classified material going through her home server.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 15, 2017 6:58 PM
Comment #422474

Can someone please help out my friend, RichKAPitan? He seems to believe his assumptions aren’t assumptions.

You would have to be very stupid or Naïve to think otherwise or heavily partisan or in your case a true blue Hillary lopver…It would be pretty far fetched to think that there was no classified material going through her home server

Uh, this is exactly what I meant by making assumptions. You ASSUMED the Secretary of State is handling classified information because that is supposed to be her job and you ASSUMED Hillary wasn’t compartmentalizing her communications competently.

My reasoning is similar. It would be farfetched for 9 women to press bogus stories against Moore. Particularly when these women are Trump-supporting Republicans. It is far more likely that Moore was lying rather than his accusers. Just like it was possible for you to tell that Hillary was lying back in March 2015 when the story first broke.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 17, 2017 8:31 AM
Comment #422754

Great article. I admire what you wrote.

Posted by: gmail sign in at December 27, 2017 4:56 AM
Comment #422959

Kami adalah perusahaan terkemuka di bidang pembuatan dan penjualan tempat sampah dengan teknologi canggih inovatif.

Posted by: tong sampah at January 5, 2018 1:58 AM
Post a comment