Third Party & Independents Archives

Trump Backs a Loser in Alabama - Who Wins?​

What a shock! Roy Moore - who’s been leading comfortably in the polls for a little while now - wins the GOP primary runoff senate race in Alabama. How humbling it must be for Majority Leader McConnell and President Trump.

Maybe for Mitch McConnell. Maybe less so for Trump.

Yes, it was a little odd that the president decided to come down on the side of Luther Strange who had McConnell's endorsement and millions of ad money, and not on the side of a socially conservative hell-raiser (if the honorable Judge Moore will forgive the metaphor). Does anyone think it was because the GOP is scared that Moore can't win re-election? Or perhaps exactly the opposite. Senator Moore - should he win against Democrat Doug Jones and Moore likely will - may prove to be both a lasting and disruptive presence representing Alabama in the upper chamber.

And of course, what does this defeat of Luther Strange mean for upcoming GOP primaries? Senator Flake in Arizona, you watching live TV tonight? Taking any calls perhaps? Making any calls?

So what does the base do with regards the president's choice in this Alabama race to fill Session's seat? Do they forgive him? It seems fairly likely they will, at least most of them. But the bigger question is:

What does President Trump do now?

Does he say bring on the dogs of primary warfare? Against establishment senators up for re-election, for example. As he has been hinting loudly since he entered the White House, and before that as well. Does Trump use this latest McConnell flop as an excuse for ... exactly what? No way that Trump will get McConnell to resign his position as Senate Majority Leader. That stuff happens in the House, hardly ever in the Senate.

And what does it mean for the GOP Senate bare-majority in general? What does Susan Collins have in common with Roy Moore, other than that they apparently belong to the same party?

But most of all what it does say to the money donors? Do the Koch brothers double down or stick their wallets away? Do the Mercers double down and up the spending in primaries where they think they have a chance of upending sitting senators and representatives?

The latest salvo in the slow-burn GOP civil war has just claimed a 6' 9" scalp. Big Luther Strange and the establishment GOP have struck out in Alabama. Who's next?

Posted by AllardK at September 27, 2017 5:29 PM
Comment #420200

Much like a referendum on establishment Republicans.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 27, 2017 9:05 PM
Comment #420208

This just goes to show how tone deaf and weak-willed the President really is. He was swindled/manipulated/cajoled by McConnell and establishment Republicans into supporting Strange. How can he drain the swamp when he doesn’t have enough backbone to pick his own Senate endorsements?

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 28, 2017 8:42 AM
Comment #420209

There are many conclusions that can be drawn from the Alabama primary:
1. That republicans can think for themselves; they don’t walk like a bunch of mind dead robots in lockstep with those in leadership positions.
2. President Trump, like any president, depends on his staff to give him information. If the information is not correct, then his decisions will not be correct.
3. The conservative voters in Alabama had the president’s back by choosing a true conservative.
4. Mitch McConnell is the big loser; with a personal approval rating of 18% he chose to pump 8/9 million into an establishment candidate who would be a rubber stamp for McConnell.
5. Moore will support Trump and Trump will support Moore.
6. And lastly, to the dismay of the fake media and the left, this will have no effect on the relationship between Trump and his supporters.

Posted by: Blaine at September 28, 2017 8:47 AM
Comment #420210

Sorry WW, but what happened is called politics. I can see Trump making the mistake of trying to work with the backstabbing Mitch McConnell, not realizing that McConnell is a never Trumpper. Trump is not a politician, and is realizing there is a learning curve when dealing with crooked politicians. Of course, this has never happened on the left.

Posted by: Blaine at September 28, 2017 8:55 AM
Comment #420211

A mentor one told me, “There are two types of mistakes: good mistakes and bad mistakes. The former are committed once (and only once) and serve the basis of learning. The latter are repeated over and over and serve the basis of incompetence.”

How many times does Trump have to keep making these mistakes before his supporters conclude that these are in fact bad mistakes?

I draw the conclusion that Trump is too feeble-minded to properly evaluate the information given to him. He is very gullible and easily manipulated by those in his inner circle. This would not be a big problem if these people were paragons of excellence, but they are not. Most ascend on the basis of nepotism or toxic journalism; or they are establishment types with no loyalty to Trump’s agenda. Trump still has the capacity of becoming a great President, but that won’t happen until he changes the people around him.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 28, 2017 9:24 AM
Comment #420213

What if:

McConnell goes to Trump and says, “I’ll get you this if you campaign for L. Strange.” Trump says, “Strange isn’t going to win but I need that, so I’ll take one in the shorts to get it.”


What kind of concession or agreement did Trump get from the senate in the last 6 months that could explain Trump’s support for Strange?

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 28, 2017 9:54 AM
Comment #420218

So the conservatives in Alabama chose a true conservative?

Moore believes:

1) 9/11 happened “because we’ve distanced ourselves from God.”

2) There are American communities living under Sharia law.

3) Islam is a “false religion.”

3) Democratic Keith Ellison should not be allowed to serve in Congress because he’s a Muslim.

4) Moore was removed as the state’s Chief Justice in 2003, later elected by voters, and then suspended last year for six violations of judicial ethics. He advocated judges break the law and ignore the Supreme Court decision re gay marriage. Remember, this guy is supposed to be a judge. Apparently conservatives are punting on the whole thing about law and the constitution and so on.

5) “Homosexual behavior is… a crime against nature, an inherent evil, and an act so heinous that it defies one’s ability to describe it.”

A bit over the top, isn’t it? Methinks he protesteth too much. Guys who talk like that about homosexuality are inevitably the ones who get caught cruising the strip propositioning male teenage hookers.

So, a true conservative will be the GOP nominee for Senator from Alabama. Steve Bannon warned Alabama Republicans others would “think they are a pack of morons.”


On the positive side, only about 450,000 Alabamans voted in the primary. Hillary Clinton won over 700,000 votes in that state in 2016. It is a long shot, but the Democrats have a very good candidate and stand an outside- a very outside chance- of winning.

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2017 1:26 PM
Comment #420219
they are a pack of morons

How did this idjit even become a lawyer? Is there a law school at Bob Jones specializing in this brand of stupidity?

The kind of Democrat who could win in Alabama would be another Shelby, who switched parties after elected. This Moore idjit makes Shelby look like a rocket scientist, well, a somewhat schizoid rocket scientist.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 28, 2017 1:54 PM
Comment #420230

Moore said the massacre of school children at Sandy Hook was the result of an angry God, and until last year he supported the racist conspiracy theory, Birtherism.

Saw a few conservative Republicans coming out against Moore, insisting they should draw a line, and not let themselves be contaminated by this kinds of certifiable nut. They don’t want to see conservatism and the GOP so thoroughly poisoned by cooks, racists, conspiracy theorists, and so on. But this is the party of Trump. Conservatives and the GOP all too willingly let themselves be corrupted.

Now we see the dark side of the American character being exposed, and like it or not- and some of them do not- but, like it or not, they OWN it.

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2017 8:21 PM
Comment #420237

So ph and oh come out with personal attacks (unsubstantiated) on Moore. Thanks morons, your attacks really add to the debate. You’re not able to hold an intelligent conversation, are you?

WW, why do you continue to claim that Trump could be a good president, and at the same time argue that he is an idiot? So which is it; he’s possibly a good president if he agrees with the left, but in the meantime he’s an idiot? You’re illogical. The main problem with Trump is that he does not understand the ideology of the left or the establishment republicans. His own son in law is a democrat. When his son in law gives him advice, do you think it’s conservative? I don’t; in fact I don’t even believe Trump is conservative, in the sense of how republicans understand it. But; you are unable to comprehend why the supporters of Trump still back him.

Posted by: Blaine at September 29, 2017 9:07 AM
Comment #420238

You have to realize sooner or later that no one believes the garbage that comes from the left. We’ve seen and heard it all before. It isn’t going to work. Your track record blows, phx8. The Democratic’s track record blows, phx8. Lying and trying to slander people who oppose your religion is such a tired, old trick. It isn’t going to carry any weight. Why don’t you try to have a constructive conversation for a change, instead of the constant pep rally fiction you regurgitate constantly with every comment.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2017 9:36 AM
Comment #420242

Sorry weary, I said WW and I meant WP.

Posted by: Blaine at September 29, 2017 11:23 AM
Comment #420243
a few conservative Republicans coming out against Moore, insisting they should draw a line. They don’t want to see conservatism and the GOP so thoroughly poisoned by cooks, racists, conspiracy theorists, and so on. …Now we see the dark side of the American character being exposed…Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2017 8:21 PM
Comment #244928

“America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.”

“Morality, like art, means a drawing a line someplace.”

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”
Posted by: ohrealy at February 8, 2008 8:50 PM

Posted by: ohrealy at September 29, 2017 11:33 AM
Comment #420245

Why would you think what I say about Moore is unsubstantiated? When I use quotation marks, that means I am quoting Moore.

He swore to uphold the Constitution, and broke his oath. Twice. A Constitution is not a menu. A judge does not get to pick and choose. If Moore objects to a law based on religious grounds, such as allowing Muslims to serve in Congress, or gay marriage, and he can not in good conscience enforce the law of the land, then he has no business being a judge; he should become a minister or priest or whatever. He does NOT have the right to impose his religious beliefs on the people in defiance of the law. Personally, I find his religious beliefs hateful, but he is entitled to them when it comes to church- he is not entitled to impose them when it comes to enforcing standing law.

“… you are unable to comprehend why the supporters of Trump still back him.”

That was addressed to WP so I can’t speak for him, but I comprehend Trump supporters just fine. His supporters are not new. Those kinds of people have been around as long as there has been a United States.

There is no actual content in your comment for me to respond to, no specifics, nothing that can be addressed. For example, you write:

“Lying and trying to slander people who oppose your religion is such a tired, old trick.”

The sentence makes no sense. What are you trying to say?

Posted by: phx8 at September 29, 2017 12:49 PM
Comment #420248
The sentence makes no sense. What are you trying to say?Posted by: phx8 at September 29, 2017 12:49 PM

Nothing at all, just trying to participate in discussions that he doesn’t understand.


Conservatives who claim to love America, yet have a deep seated hatred for anyone expressing progressive / liberal ideas…Hatriots often romanticize small towns and rural areas, which they view as the “Real America”, and they mistrust large cities, which are full of liberal elites, colored people, and the undeserving poor…Sarah Palin was a hatriot when she said “We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation.”…Using patriotism as a front to be racist….Being angsty and hateful all the time and using patriotism as your excuse….A rancher that refuses to pay fees to federal government for rendered services, while saying his black neighours would better off in slavery is clearly a hatriot…..Anyone who loudly and publicly exhibits hatred against a person or race or nation or religion and believes that they are serving the national interest.

Now, they should just have a picture of the POS for the definition.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 29, 2017 2:05 PM
Comment #420259

Why would you think what I say about Moore is unsubstantiated? When I use quotation marks, that means I am quoting Moore.”

Ph shows incomplete quotes and tries to form an argument. If I said, the Bible says, “there is no God”; would I be giving a correct quote from the Bible or would it be false? It would be correct, based on a partial quote, but it would be an incorrect statement. You pick and chose certain words and call them quotes; but they are taken out of context. This is a typical trick of the left.

You also chose to interject yourself into a question addressed to WP concerning comprehension of why Trump supporters support him and you say you comprehend his supporters just fine; but you failed to tell us what you comprehend. Why do Trump supporters support him? The left and the media have done their best to attack Trump and drive a wedge between him and his supporters, to no avail. Hillary ran on the ticket of how evil Trump is, and she lost. It’s been almost a year and the left is still running on the ticket of how evil Trump is. Don’t you think it’s time for the democrats to come out with a platform? Something besides how evil Trump is.

Posted by: Blaine at September 29, 2017 6:03 PM
Comment #420274

Ok, Blaine. Choose one example and I will provide an extended quote. Let’s see if anything I said was taken out of context.

Hillary ran on issues that were drowned by press coverage of her e-mails, amplified by the Russian hacking, and reinforced by Director Comey.

The Democrats have a good platform- starting with single payer health care. Democrats favor working closely with our good allies and promoting democracy. Democrats favor addressing Global Warming and the Paris agreement, as well as other international agreements like the one with Iran. I could go on and on, whether it is immigration reform, DACA, addressing racial injustice, equal pay for women, or running an honest government where officials are not resigning every other week because of corruption or because they are agents of foreign governments, like Flynn. To put this into perspective, at this point in his administration 5 Obama officials resigned. We are already at 19 with Trump. We have Republicans like Rosenstein, Mueller, Comey, and just about everyone at DOJ investigating Trump for his campaign’s Russian involvement.

Just because you pay no attention does not mean the differences not exist.

Posted by: phx8 at September 29, 2017 11:42 PM
Comment #420291

“…everyone at DOJ investigating Trump for his campaign’s Russian involvement.”

OK phx8…give us a factual quote of “his campaign’s Russian involvement”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 3:01 PM
Comment #420294

You mean Trump Jr.’s e-mail exchange setting up a meeting with Russians for dirt on Hillary Clinton? They held the meeting, you know. Campaign Manager Manafort, Kushner, and Trump Jr. met with the Russian cutout, a Russian lawyer who had represented Russian Intelligence in court, a Russian with a background in Russian military intelligence, and another with a reputation for hacking opponents. They met in Trump Tower. Trump was sitting one floor above them at the time. Two days prior to the meeting, Trump announced he would have dirt on Hillary Clinton in a few days.

Manafort is going to die in jail.

Posted by: phx8 at September 30, 2017 3:47 PM
Comment #420295

phx8 forgot that some on the Trump campaign ate Russian caviar.

Should I bother to list all the Democrats who did the same legal things?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 3:59 PM
Comment #420298

Taking that meeting with the Russians was illegal. It violated campaign finance law.

Posted by: phx8 at September 30, 2017 4:15 PM
Comment #420300
-rump was sitting one floor above them at the time. Posted by: phx8 at September 30, 2017 3:47 PM

A lot of funny things have happened one floor below there. That could have been Manafort’s apartment, which might have also been the one where the sports book was run, or it could have belonged to any one of a number or russians in organized crime. It belonged to someone, unless it was another empty space bought to launder money by a shell company but unoccupied.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 30, 2017 4:27 PM
Comment #420301

“Taking that meeting with the Russians was illegal.”

Where are the indictments?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 4:27 PM
Comment #420302

“Taking that meeting with the Russians was illegal. It violated campaign finance law.”

But it’s not, unless you are Paying them to interfere in some manner. That hasn’t and won’t be established because it didn’t happen. Meeting with the Russians alone isn’t illegal.

Posted by: dbs at September 30, 2017 6:15 PM
Comment #420305

It is a crime because, even if the Russians provided nothing, the Trump Campaign people sought it. They wanted to obtain something a value from the Russians. That violates campaign finance law.

Not every crime gets prosecuted. Some of the things that have been turned up are relatively minor, and if they stood alone- say, omitting to mention meeting one foreign leader from an allied country on a security clearance form- then there would be no indictment.

Remember when Trump and his campaign people declared there were NO contacts with the Russians? And then there were a LOT of contacts AND meetings. That is not normal. No other political campaign in American history has so many meetings and contacts with a foreign power- an ADVERSARY- as the Trump Campaign. And then the goal posts moved yet again, and people like Hannity went from ‘no collusion,’ to ‘collusion is not a crime’ after that Trump Tower meeting.

By the way, Trump may have committed Obstruction of Justice when he dictated a lie about the meeting to Hope Hicks, telling Trump Jr. what to say. Lying isn’t illegal. If he knew it was a lie, and he intentionally tried to mislead, then that would be Obstruction.

Posted by: phx8 at September 30, 2017 6:57 PM
Comment #420306

Until and unless there are indictments phx8, let’s not pretend we know what will happen.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 7:39 PM
Comment #420308

So ph was asked by Royal to provide a factual quote on Trumps campaign colluding with the Russians to beat Hillary, and how does ph meet the challenge? Why, he just rattles off another list of unsubstantiated accusations. Maybe for ONCE in ph’s miserable little existence, perhaps he could offer one proof of Trump and Russia colluding to cause Hillary to lose.

Like I said, the democrats have no platform, unless you consider extreme leftism a platform. Single payer national HC…no. GW…no. Amnesty for illegals…no. American’s want none of this. If this is what democrats are running on, why aren’t they winning elections? Even the leadership of the DNC understands that hating Trump is not a viable platform. Ph, why don’t you and your sidekick ohrealy list something in your platform that is winning elections?

Posted by: Blaine at September 30, 2017 9:52 PM
Comment #420309

RF,”… unless there are indictments phx8, let’s not pretend we know what will happen.”

The good news for conservatives is that the Mueller investigation will not indict anyone unless they have an airtight case. That is as it should be. But I will anticipate likely outcomes in order to protect my family and myself.

First you say there is no Democratic platform, and when I present numerous examples, you disagree with them because you do not want them to be enacted. As for the performance of Democrats in recent elections:

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by two percent, that is, about three million votes.

Obama won the past two elections with over 50% of the vote, a performance not matched by anyone in a long time.

In the Senate, the vast majority of Americans voted for Democrats. Only 42%of Americans voted for Republican Senators in 2016.

In the House, it was not much better. Only gerrymandering saved a GOP majority. And it is telling that even though less than half of Americans vote, the GOP is hell bent on suppressing the vote even further, while Democrats seek to make it so more people can exercise their RIGHT to vote.

Posted by: phx8 at October 1, 2017 12:28 AM
Comment #420319


Soon enough, we’ll add next year’s Congressional races to the list of liberal electoral victories.

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Comment #427631

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Comment #427641

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