Third Party & Independents Archives

Half The US Has Gone McCarthyitic

Trump has been president for six months now and the never-Trumpers are still at it. No signs of letting up. Today Hillary came on strong thru a graduation speech at her alma mater.

Fake news is working harder to denigrate Trump. Latest 'bombshell' is that Trump and company have tried to set up secret communications with Russian bad guys.

We are being told that the Trump team was setting up a spy ring thru 50-60 quick meetings. Kushner met with a Russian bank manager who had been trained as a spy. Kushner also met with the Sov ambassador in DC.

Supposedly, we can't know the truth until after the Special Counsel wraps up his investigation. Maybe a couple of years hence. I'm starting to believe the never-Trumpers will take this all the way to the next election. Maybe it's just that all the left wing operatives are losing their jobs and playing it to the hilt as long as folks will tune in and listen. It was very entertaining but, now it's getting old. You can't get any real news on tv without having to sit thru endless spiels of how bad Trump was/is/will be. -

This is like McCarthyism on steroids. And, Hillary will get up there and say how Trump isn't fit to be president and how he should be impeached for pinching women, girls, boys and so on - -

Yet, she helped Russia gain 20% of our uranium. She lied about Benghazi. She created one of the worst national security lapse in our history by setting up commo equipment outside a controlled area and passing classified information on it, for years.

While Trump has been the greatest populist president this country has had she is out there, six months in, saying he is unfit. She should be in jail

Lock her up. . .

And, didn't Trump line them up on stage and tell them, and the world, they need to pay up? I mean, for a 3rd party populist like me it can't get any better than that, or can it??

Posted by Roy Ellis at May 27, 2017 9:51 AM
Comments
Comment #416738

Roy, Hillary’s name won’t be on the ballot next year. Instead of relitigating the 2016 election, why don’t you look ahead and imagine what Americans will be thinking in 2018. Will the rumors and the leaks stop? Or will salacious story after salacious story continue to drip through voters’ consciousness?

All I can say is that Donald Trump and his associates could have made things so much easier on themselves if they honest and decent people. Being up front and telling people about their meetings with Ambassador Kislyak would have gone a long way towards maintaining the White House’s credibility. Instead, everyone in the present administration has decided to lie at every given ample opportunity. No issue is too trivial to them to handle honestly, whether it was the size of last January’s inauguration audience or Donald Trump’s preferred candidate in the French Election.

Today, the American people are stuck asking themselves who do they trust more? The President who can’t open his mouth without adding a yard to the length of his nose or the intelligence community that has served valorously defending law and order as well as our lives for many decades. We are long past the point where this affair with Russia ends up being a nothingburger. Either Donald Trump and his team are in Putin’s service or the intelligence community is engaged in the biggest conspiracy against the American people in our nation’s history.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 26, 2017 10:43 PM
Comment #416739

I don’t think it would be the first time there has been a conspiracy against the American people.

Do you know why it’s possible? Because people are gullible enough to believe a Russian came over here and bought himself a president.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 27, 2017 1:55 AM
Comment #416746

“We are long past the point where this affair with Russia ends up being a nothingburger.”


That is exactly what this is. It is a distraction.


“Either Donald Trump and his team are in Putin’s service or the intelligence community is engaged in the biggest conspiracy against the American people in our nation’s history.”


I would say a portion of the intelligence community is engaged in the biggest conspiracy against the American people in our nation’s history. That would be those that are holdovers from the Obama administration.

If there were any credible evidence we would know what it is. The evidence against Hilary was known, and she was guilty of mishandling classified information as well as destroying evidence, yet never indicted. This witch hunt has been going on for 10 months now. The FBI was able to review 1000s of emails in a couple days, yet 10 months later has no concrete evidence to report. Nothingburger. The democrats and the deep state are engaged in an attempt to create chaos and confusion. They are the true enemies of this country, and our constitution.

Posted by: dbs at May 27, 2017 9:06 AM
Comment #416747

How low have we sunk Roy? Using “fake news” to defend Trumps campaign staff is McCarthyism IMHO. Using Clinton to point the finger somewhere other than at the current administration is McCarthyism IMHO.

The campaign is over we have a winner, still trashing Clinton while the populist Trump has unleashed the conservative repubs in Congress to gut the social safety net and run up huge debts whilst lying about it is McCarthyism IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 27, 2017 11:31 AM
Comment #416749

“Either Donald Trump and his team are in Putin’s service or the intelligence community is engaged in the biggest conspiracy against the American people in our nation’s history.”

I laughingly applaud Warren for his logical inquiring mind. He can only conjure up two possibilities. Imagine how limiting his brain has become over things political. He has closed his mind on this in much the same way he has closed his mind on MMGW. He, and his Pals, have reached a consensus…no matter how flawed.

I have asked before with no response from my Pals on the Left. What would be Trump’s goal in becoming a Putin crony?

Is Trump after more money?

Is Trump after more power?

Is Trump after more ????

The IC is leaking like a sieve. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy, it is more simple than that. The snakes living in the swamp want to remain there.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 3:23 PM
Comment #416750

McCarthyism? This from a Russian bot who plugged Wikileaks?

In an article a short while ago, this same person pushed a conspiracy theory surrounding Seth Rich. One other commenter, WW joined him. The story quickly fell apart. FOX retracted it. Advertisers dropped Hannity. He went on an unscheduled ‘vacation.’

A former Bush speechwriter, Michael Gerson, summed it up. He pointed out the “failure of decency” on the part of Hannity and Limbaugh. “This is a concrete example of the mainstreaming of destructive craziness.” Gerson said “The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased. The movement has been seized by a kind of discrediting madness, in which conspiracy delusions figure prominently.”

After this humiliating demonstration of gullibility, one would think conservatives would be a little more cautious. But no.

And now we have multiple reports that Kushner met with the Russian Ambassador and one of Putin’s closest cronies, a guy who runs a SANCTIONED bank. They met in secret at the Trump Tower. The ambassador came in the back door. Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities to avoid American intelligence.

Kushner is a person of interest for the FBI. Being a person of interest does not usually end with a reward of a puppy and two scoops of ice cream. He needs to have his security credentials removed immediately.

Well, at the risk of going all out McCarthyist, I can think of a seven letter word that describes what we are seeing. And a pretty good song-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlkNk3OYJg

Posted by: phx8 at May 27, 2017 3:24 PM
Comment #416752

“What would be Trump’s goal in becoming a Putin crony?”

There are several possibilities, none proven at this point.

Personally, I think the least likely explanation is that the Russians compromised him with a s*x tape, per the Steele Dossier.

In a more likely scenario, the same Dossier details a large deal between Exxon and Rosneft. Sanctions stopped it. Trump would have reportedly received 19% of the proceeds if he could lift the sanctions, which have kept Russia in a recession since they were applied in 2014. 19% of Rosneft was actually sold and disappeared in a series of shell corporations. No one knows who received the money.

Finally, Trump could easily have been compromised a decade ago when he went through a series of bankruptcies. He needed money. The Russian oligarchs needed to launder money. Trump was in real estate and c*sinos, the perfect instruments for money laundering.

“The snakes living in the swamp want to remain there.”

What?! The FBI and 16 other intelligence agencies are full of people who want nothing more than to keep their jobs, so they are willing to risk serious jail time by leaking? That is ludicrous. And it’s not just the US IC. British, Dutch, Polish, and Estonian IC’s have been warning us about Trump for a long time.


Posted by: phx8 at May 27, 2017 4:17 PM
Comment #416753

I know phx8 has bought into the same conspiracy scheme Warren has. It is much easier, for a Liberal, to indulge in fantasy than face the reality of President Trump actually attempting to do what he promised as a candidate.

Many thanks to President Trump for not caving to six of the G-7 pressuring him to throw American taxpayers on the burning pile of rubbish that is known as MMGW “Paris agreement”.

Trump is well aware that, similar to who pays the most for NATO defense, UN, and other world philanthropy and defense, it will be the taxpayers of the United States who suffer to pay for the boondoggle effort to change the planet’s climate.

By standing his ground with this same group, President Trump has enhanced our position with regard to trade with the EU. He is delivering on what he promised his supporters. “America First”.

The Canadian and French leaders pranced around the world stages acting like school boys with a huge allowance. Germany’s Angela Merkel was frustrated that she couldn’t bend Trump to her will.

Meanwhile, failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was huffing, puffing, and coughing while speaking at a commencement exercise. Even the Left is thanking God that this sick person wasn’t elected and can get all the rest she needs at home.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 4:43 PM
Comment #416754

Fantasy?

How do you explain Kushner meeting the Russian Ambassador and a Putin crony from a SANCTIONED bank in order to set up communication through Russian diplomatic facilities? He trusted Russian intelligence with what he wanted to say, but not American intelligence?

Seriously, please explain.

Posted by: phx8 at May 27, 2017 4:55 PM
Comment #416755

Can you provide the link that indicates a crime was committed phx8?

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 4:56 PM
Comment #416756
I would say a portion of the intelligence community is engaged in the biggest conspiracy against the American people in our nation’s history. That would be those that are holdovers from the Obama administration.

Do you have any evidence to suggest this? Or are you coming to this conclusion on the presumption that Trump and company are incapable of doing anything wrong?

If there were any credible evidence we would know what it is.

Why is that? What detective in his right mind would tip off the subjects of his investigation before any indictments are pulagated? What prosecutor in his right mind would seek an indictment before collecting ALL available evidence and following EVERY possible lede to discover the extent of the conspiracy (if any).

The evidence against Hilary was known
Not until July 5, 2016. Before then, you guys were the ones playing in the sandbox of speculation and innuendo. Before July 5, 2016, there was zero evidence in the public record suggesting that any email that traversed her server contained even a fragment of classified information at the time it was sent or received.
10 months later has no concrete evidence to report
The Russia probe is of much bigger scope than Clinton’s server. It is going to take a lot longer to sift through all the leads and figure out what happened. I think it’ll be at least a year or two before Mueller finishes. He’s hardly been on the job a week, yet he has his work cut out for him. Between the possible money laundering, possible espionage, possible obstruction of justice and possible cybercrimes there is no way this mess reaches a conclusion anytime soon.
I laughingly applaud Warren for his logical inquiring mind
OK, I confess there is a third possibility. It could be a grand media conspiracy and that there actually aren’t any people of substance behind all those anonymous reports. Journalists could be inventing fictitious sources or they could be talking to highly imaginative junior officials who really have no clue what is going on.

However, I have more faith in the mainstream media than to believe that this could be the case. Responsible journalism means double checking one’s sources and collaborating the tales they tell. Research and diligence are key to piecing together the truth from the bits and pieces difference sources reveal. Sure, the process isn’t a hundred percent perfect and a small handful of false items get published. However in the grander scope, America’s journalists do an excellent job documenting the truth. It would be a tremendous scandal if they abused their readers’ trust to concoct a false narrative about the President. The media has every economic incentive not to conspire in this manner.

What would be Trump’s goal in becoming a Putin crony

My hypothesis regarding Trump is that the guy is so weak-minded that he craves respect from everyone he meets. By collaborating with Putin to become President of the United States, Trump thought he would finally win the social acceptance that he has always wanted. Turns out, he miscalculated and hasn’t gotten what he wanted, but I still think it was his motivation.

The IC is leaking like a sieve. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy, it is more simple than that. The snakes living in the swamp want to remain there.
So, you allege it IS a conspiracy to keep the old guard in charge. Yet, people are risking their careers by leaking in an effort to keep their jobs? Wouldn’t a better job-preservation strategy be to simply keep one’s head down and dutifully execute the Commander-in-Chief’s orders?
Posted by: Warren Porter at May 27, 2017 5:48 PM
Comment #416757

“Can you provide the link that indicates a crime was committed…”

An indictment is the purview of the FBI and the Special Counsel. Pulling a security clearance does not require a conviction. At the very least, Kushner should be kept away from anything classified. He was trying to set up covert communication with an adversary of the US, and hide it from American intelligence.

Kushner failed to declare the meeting for his security clearance. That is a crime punishable by imprisonment. 18 USC 1001 is cited on the certificate, the Questionnaire for National Security Clearance, which Kushner signed.

18 USC 1001

a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device[ , ] a material fact;(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or…

Flynn has already been fired.

Posted by: phx8 at May 27, 2017 5:49 PM
Comment #416758

Warren asks; “Do you have any evidence to suggest (IC conspiracy) this?

I have reason and logic. If leaks involving matters known only to the IC are made public, from where else could they come? From where does all the illegal unmasking of American citizens emanate?

Warren believes Trump turned traitor because he craves “Putin’s” respect. Does anyone care to address his belief?

I suggest Warren dreamed that up while flying with Peter Pan and Tinker Bell. But then, his is the same juvenile mind that trusts the media and all their un-named and anonymous sources. We have seen some well respected news people be fired for lying and embellishing about their reporting. Nothing fazes Warren if it justifies his political beliefs.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 6:15 PM
Comment #416759

I await the indictment on Kushner phx8. Is it imminent?

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 6:47 PM
Comment #416760

Lock her up! Lock her up!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 27, 2017 6:50 PM
Comment #416761

Can any of our Liberal Pals explain to us why they believe there are no Democrats being investigated?

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 6:57 PM
Comment #416762
I have reason and logic. If leaks involving matters known only to the IC are made public, from where else could they come? From where does all the illegal unmasking of American citizens emanate?

You answered a question I did not ask. Obviously, the reports we read in the media originate from within the IC (barring the truly profound scandal where the media is inventing fictitious sources out of thin air.).

Now, these reports might be premised upon hard evidence that the IC has collected, but not released to the public. Or, they might be based upon lies and fabrications crafted by the IC in order to damage the President. The former, is an example of the normal rhythms of Washington. The latter is a the gigantic conspiracy by the IC to undermine the leader that they serve for no legitimate reason.

You have offered me zero evidence to demonstrate that the latter scenario is the more likely one. I have already explained why I think the former is more likely. Namely, that the agents involved have little motive to stick their necks out and cause trouble unless they were telling the truth.

And just let me back up here: I am pretty sure one or more of these reports based upon anonymous reporting will be eventually disproven. The investigation is still underway and ultimately, these leaks travel through the beltway in the manner of the childhood game of telephone. Some details are bound to be misreported. This is why I want to make clear what I am defending. It is my judgement that some or most of the reports based upon anonymous leaks will prove true. Because of the nature of the allegations at hand, essentially 100% of these reports must be false for Donald Trump to be as innocent as he claims.

Now, I am not going to say there is zero chance of this being the case. Under our laws and traditions, we presume a man is innocent until he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and I will extend the same courtesy to Donald Trump and his associates. However, there are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of what he says and does and I strongly support giving Robert Mueller the breathing room to get to the bottom of this. Likewise, I will continue to advocate that Congress form a select committee or independent commission to study the aspects of Russia’s influence upon the 2016 election that do not necessarily implicate any US persons in any crimes.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 27, 2017 7:00 PM
Comment #416763

“Obviously, the reports we read in the media originate from within the IC…Now, these reports might be premised upon hard evidence that the IC has collected, but not released to the public. Or, they might be based upon lies and fabrications crafted by the IC in order to damage the President.”

Warren, are you really that blind? Nothing the IC has collected, or in its possession, should be released to the public unless they are authorized to do so. How can we know about “hard evidence” if it was “not released”?

Unauthorized release of information about the president by the IC is illegal. Whether true or false, information filtered through an opposition political filter will be damaging. You can make book on that Pal. Surely even Warren can understand this.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 27, 2017 7:17 PM
Comment #416764

Royal Flush gives me a prosaic condemnation of unauthorized disclosures of sensitive information, but this tells me nothing as to whether or not said leaks are fake or not.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 27, 2017 7:30 PM
Comment #416765
why they believe there are no Democrats being investigated

Isn’t Michael Flynn a Democrat?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 27, 2017 7:32 PM
Comment #416766

Kushner is a lifelong Democrat.

Posted by: phx8 at May 27, 2017 7:55 PM
Comment #416768


https://www.creators.com/read/judge-napolitano/03/17/did-obama-spy-on-trump

and the last four o r five paras of this one

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447973/nsa-illegal-surveillance-americans-obama-administration-abuse-fisa-court-response

The Obama admin had the ability to track Trump and company from day 1. In the waning days of the Obama tenure he dramatically increased the number of persons/agencies authorized to receive unmasked calls and emails.

IMO that’s the reason for the fake news on the Trump spy ring. They want to cover their butts by saying tracking the Trump admin was justified as they were engaging the Soviets and ‘we had to do it.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 27, 2017 9:07 PM
Comment #416769

The Dems/libs so wanted to win, were so certain they would win they were willing to take major risks like Hillary’s basement server and sifting thru NSA phone and email data.

Now it’s 24/7 smoke and mirrors, fake news, whatever they can do to confuse the issues.

It’s become very clear to about half of us - - ISIS and the dems are losers.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 27, 2017 9:16 PM
Comment #416770

We should let the people testifying get up in front of congress and lie, then forget about it. Or we could let them say they don’t remember, and forget about it. How about we let them plead the 5th, then forget about it?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 28, 2017 9:01 AM
Comment #416771

“Do you have any evidence to suggest this?”

Where else would these anonymous leaks be coming from ?


“Or are you coming to this conclusion on the presumption that Trump and company are incapable of doing anything wrong?”

The only thing that he is doing wrong is taking too much time cleansing the FBI and CIA, etc. of Obama’s holdovers. They all need to be fired.

“What prosecutor in his right mind would seek an indictment before collecting ALL available evidence and following EVERY possible lede to discover the extent of the conspiracy (if any).”

Don’t know, but I do know of one that refused to indict with ample evidence of the law being broken.

“The Russia probe is of much bigger scope than Clinton’s server.”

How so ? We had absolute evidence that classified information was mishandles, and evidence was destroyed. Yet we have no credible evidence that it was even the Russians that hacked the DNCs servers, and that they had any affect on the election. All we have is anonymous leaks that have not been verified. Do you really believe that these same leakers wouldn’t leak concrete evidence to the media if actually was any ?

Posted by: dbs at May 28, 2017 9:16 AM
Comment #416894

You would think that people would see the obvious lesson to be learned here and admit that they were wrong… But I’m afraid people are way too invested in their religions of hate to make the connection.

https://t.co/xAMrqZQNJo

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Comment #417815

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Comment #417816

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