Third Party & Independents Archives

The Latest Berkeley Riots and Ricky Monday's Example

If your head was bloodied in Berkeley 50 years ago, it was likely you were a student protester and the offending instrument was a police baton lowered rather vigorously on your skull or other parts of your person. Not so in 2017. You were more likely to have been a Trump supporter somewhere in the vicinity of Martin Luther King Civic Center Park. In Berkeley of course, and where a Weimar Republic-like riot took place this past Saturday.

And that analogy is an insult of course to those Trump supporters whose rally provoked a counter rally by the black shirted anarcho-thug hoodies. But it is an irresistible analogy to too many media types. To be truly valuable, the analogy to the Weimar Republic, where fascists fought communists in the streets of an inflation-racked Germany in the years before the Nazi's grabbed control, must have it that any Trump supporter has to be - by this perverse logic - a fascist. Ergo, Weimar!

So that means that getting beaten and pepper-sprayed by black-hoodie thugs makes you a fascist. When of course, it's the anarcho-thugs who are the ones using Hitler youth tactics (similar to other fascists like the Peronista youth in Peron's government). Shut down speech with violence. On campuses, in public parks, even at congressional members' meetings with their constituents. Of course there the uniform tends more towards sensible tie-dye and rainbow colored loose garments good for fist-shaking, sign waving, and yelling.

There are so many ways to shut down speech, aren't there? And you - as any progressive knows - always must dress appropriately for any given speech-shutting function you happen to attend. Or else you're a fascist. How dare you bring a flag into a public meeting in America! Or to a public square?!

And while David French in National Review paints an alarming picture of a potential wave of violence breaking out between rioters and those who support the Trump administration, that seems a bit over the top. Look at any of the current footage, and often photographers outnumber the actual number of people engaged in the violence. Does that make the looting and burning from Ferguson to Berkeley any less disturbing? No, of course not.

But perhaps we can all learn from Ricky Monday's example from a 1976 baseball game when he yanked a flag doused with lighter fluid by a couple of protesters in left field (where else??) and rescued what is more than a rectangular piece of cloth with stripes and stars arranged on it's surface. It might seem incredible to those protesters in 1976 as well as to the anarcho-thugs or the rioters in places like Baltimore, but love of country does not mean you're a violent right-wing crazy. It means you are willing to take reasonable steps to defend your country and it's symbols - like a soaked stars and stripes - because you care deeply about both. It's that simple, and that important for those who do.

Let's keep Ricky Monday in mind as we digest the next violent protest. We need his example right now. More than ever perhaps.

Posted by AllardK at April 18, 2017 7:39 PM
Comments
Comment #415440

Both the Trump supporters and the “Antifa” movement should be ashamed of themselves. Public assembly and free speech are no excuse for violence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 19, 2017 5:38 PM
Comment #415441

I don’t know Warren I’m kinda proud of the antifascist people speaking out and standing up to the jackbooted right wing fascist.

Lets remember the tainted information in this one sided post isn’t the reality of the situation. We have extremist right wing outside agitators coming into town to deliberately cause trouble. Here is an antifa demonstrators view of the attack by the fascist thugs.

I know many non the right will have a load of BS about how these fascist are just wanting to promote free speech but what do they know.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 19, 2017 5:51 PM
Comment #415444
I’m kinda proud of the antifascist people speaking out and standing up to the jackbooted right wing fascist.

I am proud of speaking out and standing up too. I am not proud of violence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 19, 2017 8:27 PM
Comment #415450

Of course you’re proud of them J2, they’re jackbooted left-wing fascist. As everybody knows, it’s always somehow ‘different’ and there’s always an excuse when it’s your fascists.

Truth is, these small groups of idiots were irrelevant and disregarded just a few short years ago, and if not for the left and it’s media trying to lump Trump with them strictly for political gain, they still would be.

Posted by: kctim at April 20, 2017 9:40 AM
Comment #415451

I think j2t2’s chinstrap on his helmet is cutting off the circulation to his indoctrinated brain.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 20, 2017 9:46 AM
Comment #415457

Wow the projection from kctim and Weary, and the conservative collective in general,has hit new levels with this line of crap! I do respect the fact you guys didn’t overtly protect the far right fascist starting all the trouble in Berkeley. I am disappointed that you diverted the blame to the antifascist especially since you have to resort to lies such as “they’re jackbooted left-wing fascist”. You guys and your misinformation campaign, do you really fool yourselves?

IT is understandable that you and your fellow conservatives seek to protect Trump at all cost with this inane disassociation thing “and if not for the left and it’s media trying to lump Trump with them strictly for political gain,” as if it has merit. It doesn’t kctim, it is foolish to blame the media and the left when the blame is Trump’s and Trump’s alone. He courted these guys along with Bannon and emboldened them. They are part of the pie in the sky mandate Trump has told us he has, own up to it.

The patriotic Americans that are the antifascist can see though the myths misinformation half truths and outright lies of the conservative media, and it’s rabid pack of mindless sheep. They deserve the respect of all of us IMHO even if they resort to violence to protect themselves from the violent attacks of the fascist and the police. Listen to the lady that endured the brutal attack by the fascist in the link on my previous comment and tell me they are trying to provoke and cause violence! Or that they are themselves fascist, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for these lies.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 20, 2017 11:45 AM
Comment #415458

The guy who sucker punched the women is a big Trump supporter. Despite conservative claims to the contrary.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4418540/Supremacist-caught-video-punching-woman-face.html

Who ever made the claim that fascism would come to America with a flag and a cross has been proven correct,IMHO. I wonder if the conservatives seem so supportive of the fascist because of this and the use of certain words like “Liberty” in the names of the fascist groups. IS that all it takes?

Posted by: j2t2 at April 20, 2017 12:01 PM
Comment #415464

The only one defending and “overtly protecting” the extremists and supporting their violence and crap so far has been you, J2.

The leftist extremists are also the only ones who are attacking the “individual right or ability of people to come together and collectively express, promote, pursue, and defend their ideas,” and using violence and destruction to deny others “the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.” Those are actual fascist tactics, J2, unlike your claims of immigration control and lower taxes being fascism.

Trump didn’t “court” white supremacy or fascism on the campaign trail, and he has done nothing to support such ridiculous claims.
It is a fact that the left and its media is attacking Trump. Only someone with absolutely no integrity would try to claim otherwise.

The ‘antifa’ extremists are spoiled violent marxists and go against just about every American value and principle. To call them “patriotic Americans” is a slap in the face to every American, especially those of us who served. They don’t deserve the respect of any American, nor do they deserve any pity or empathy when they suffer at the hands of others.
The scumbag lady in your link chose to go to a counter protest with violent extremists in hopes of provoking a reaction and silencing the free speech of others. I couldn’t care less what happened to her.
I do however find it hilarious that the leftist nuts who laughed at Richard Spencer being sucker punched by your precious ‘antifa’ are now expecting concern about this chick being sucker punched.

“you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for these lies.”

You start pointing out actual lies instead of making silly claims of fascists, racists, New World Order or whatever, and maybe you will have a valid point.

Posted by: kctim at April 21, 2017 10:05 AM
Comment #415466
The only one defending and “overtly protecting” the extremists and supporting their violence and crap so far has been you, J2.
So untrue kctim, I am against the fascist I don’t support them at all.
The leftist extremists are also the only ones who are attacking the “individual right or ability of people to come together and collectively express, promote, pursue, and defend their ideas,” and using violence and destruction to deny others “the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.”

Again so untrue. The fascist right is pulling a “Skokie” with their attempts to defile Berkeley. They seek to incite violence and hatred. Those that are defending this place from the fascist thugs also have a right to free speech kctim. Ultimately the courts will rule in favor of the right wing fascist thugs, or so we hope, just like they did in Skokie. We can also hope than when they do get their moment of fame they will be shouted down by the antifascist.


Those are actual fascist tactics, J2, unlike your claims of immigration control and lower taxes being fascism.

Why kctim this nonsense sounds like a fascist tactic as well. I have never made any such claims.

Trump didn’t “court” white supremacy or fascism on the campaign trail, and he has done nothing to support such ridiculous claims.

Denial of the facts, kctim! The spokesman for the “alt right” is in the white house as a strategist. Who knows what Trump has courted as the lack of transparency in the WH continues to grow without a word from conservatives.

It is a fact that the left and its media is attacking Trump.

Factual reporting by the news media, which is something you probably are use to in the conservative media, isn’t attacking it is reporting. You guys need to put your big boy pants on and grow up instead of denying truth.

Only someone with absolutely no integrity would try to claim otherwise.

Would you guys recognize integrity if it came up and bit you on the a**? I doubt it. Where is the integrity in defending the far right extremist. Where is the integrity in supporting Trump and Putin…er…umm..Pence? WHere is the integrity in lying about the number of people who showed up at the inauguration? Where is..well the Trump lies list is to long but you get my point.

The ‘antifa’ extremists are spoiled violent marxists and go against just about every American value and principle.

Oh BS they are fighting fascism which does go against just about every American value and principle. These antifascist may be out of the mainstream but they certainly are as patriotic as the rest of us.


To call them “patriotic Americans” is a slap in the face to every American, especially those of us who served.

Oh BS kctim. They are on the front lines of the battle for the soul of this country. Where are “those who served” that think they have anymore of a claim of patriotism? Sitting back and letting these kids take the punches it seems. I don’t want to belittle military service kctim but to think this service makes anyone else less patriotic is wrong headed.


They don’t deserve the respect of any American, nor do they deserve any pity or empathy when they suffer at the hands of others.

Spoken like a true fascist kctim. But I must disagree with you. While you attempt to downplay the rise of fascism in this country these folks are doing something about it, we should all be proud of them. Conservatives who appease these fascist, just like they did in the 30’s, whether they served or not should be proud these people are standing up for the country on the front lines. Not denying the situation IMHO.

The scumbag lady in your link chose to go to a counter protest with violent extremists in hopes of provoking a reaction and silencing the free speech of others.

Good for her and all those who were with her. Despite your inaccurate and disparaging description of this American patriot and your attempt to portray this as a free speech issue you are in the wrong here kctim. The fascist are the violent extremists who can preach their hatred from their own homes. When they come to someone else’s house they should expect to be confronted.

It also appears the douche bag Coulter has jumped on the free publicity bandwagon created by the fascist.

I couldn’t care less what happened to her.

I know kctim, your hatred has gotten the better of you. But to support these fascist is wrong. It doesn’t make you patriotic as you seem to think. It isn’t free speech you are defending.

I do however find it hilarious that the leftist nuts who laughed at Richard Spencer being sucker punched by your precious ‘antifa’ are now expecting concern about this chick being sucker punched.

To tell you the truth I didn’t see her expecting anything of the such. She knew the risks she was taking and it seems from what I have seen she has accepted this sucker punch as part of the price.

“you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for these lies.” You start pointing out actual lies instead of making silly claims of fascists, racists, New World Order or whatever, and maybe you will have a valid point.

Well nice rant kctim but you called this girl a left wing fascist which is a lie and you should be ashamed. Not to mention the NWO thing, when have I said something like that?

Posted by: j2t2 at April 21, 2017 1:07 PM
Comment #415470

J2,

IF you were truly “against the fascist” you would have condemned tactics of all involved, such as Warren weakly attempted to do.
I honestly don’t think you have a clue as to what actual fascism is or even looks like.

“The fascist right is pulling a “Skokie” with their attempts to defile Berkeley.”

Even IF they were actual fascists, they still have the right to assemble and speak. Even IF they were inciting violence and hatred, which their not, that still does not give these little anti American leftist punks the right to become violent.

“Why kctim this nonsense sounds like a fascist tactic as well. I have never made any such claims.”

Then perhaps you should enlighten us all with some proof of actual fascist activity, instead of your silly a$$ generalizations of labeling everything you disagree with as fascism or white supremacy. FFS

“Where is the integrity in defending the far right extremist.”

Nobody has defended any actual “far-right’ extremists. Requiring actual proof of some kind of dastardly Trump Putin evil relationship is not being in actual support of such a relationship being true. Nobody cares about how many people showed up at the inauguration.
They ONLY point you are making is that you are stuck in some kind of weird a$$ anti Trump propaganda loop of BS.

“Oh BS they are fighting fascism which does go against just about every American value and principle.”

They are fighting what THEY think is considered fascism, not actual fascism. Basically, all they are ‘fighting’ against is the ideals of limited government, individual rights, and people saying what they don’t agree with.

“These antifascist may be out of the mainstream but they certainly are as patriotic as the rest of us.”

They are a cancer on our country and its Constitution, just as the Klan and BLM are.

“They are on the front lines of the battle for the soul of this country.”

They are on the front lines of the current battle to transform our country into a dependency laden entitlement culture along the lines of European socialist democracies. The soul of this country is based in limited government and individual rights, the very two things preventing their Utopia.

“Where are “those who served” that think they have anymore of a claim of patriotism? Sitting back and letting these kids take the punches it seems.”

Seeing how I have fought for and risked life and limb for this country, while all those little b*stards fight for are their free entitlements at the risk of a possible punch, my claim of actual patriotism far outweighs their feeble claims. Them and their actions aren’t worth my time to defend.

“I don’t want to belittle military service kctim but to think this service makes anyone else less patriotic is wrong headed.”

You can belittle anything you want, and of course you don’t have to serve to be patriotic. But if you are out there trying to tear down everything this country was founded on, you are most definitely less patriotic than those who love their country.

“Conservatives who appease these fascist, just like they did in the 30’s, whether they served or not should be proud these people are standing up for the country on the front lines.”

Nobody is appeasing any actual fascist or any such actions. These idiots are ‘standing up’ for left wing government, NOT the country or the Constitution it was founded on.

“When they come to someone else’s house they should expect to be confronted.”

But not to be confronted with violence, J2. Do you seriously not see where this is headed if these little leftist sh*ts start venturing out of their little liberal enclaves and start attacking real Americans? It’s not going to be pretty.

“But to support these fascist is wrong.”

There is no rise in actual fascism going on, and IF there was, I would not support it.

“It isn’t free speech you are defending.”

Then you have absolutely no idea of what free speech is.

“To tell you the truth I didn’t see her expecting anything of the such.”

You are weirdly trying to label her as some kind of patriot and lambasting the guy who punched her.

“Well nice rant kctim but you called this girl a left wing fascist which is a lie and you should be ashamed.”

What she and her little group of dimwits were trying to accomplish through violence, is more fascist than the idiots wanting to speak their drivel.

“Not to mention the NWO thing, when have I said something like that?”

EVERY time you bring up the 1%, your so-called right-wing fascism, Trump etc…

Posted by: kctim at April 21, 2017 3:13 PM
Comment #415472

Simple question: Who believes in the free exercise of speech, and who doesn’t.

Sorry, no parsing allowed.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 21, 2017 4:59 PM
Comment #415485

Snowflakes threatening lawsuit to stop Ann Coulter from speaking at Berkley. Guess we know who believes in freedom of speech, and who doesn’t. The real face of fascism lies in our Marxist friends on the left. How ironic.

Posted by: dbs at April 23, 2017 8:49 AM
Comment #415486
But not to be confronted with violence, J2. Do you seriously not see where this is headed if these little leftist sh*ts start venturing out of their little liberal enclaves and start attacking real Americans? It’s not going to be pretty.

Kctim, it was the fascist right wingers that ventured to Berkeley. It was the fascist right wing that provoked violence by using violence, in this latest attempt to force their beliefs on the college campus, not the antifa.

How telling that you continue to demean the antifascist groups , threatening them for taking action against fascist thugs. But calling the right wing fascist “real Americans” tells us why you threaten and demean.

Royal simple answer-the antifa believe in free speech the same as the rest of us, so what . This isn’t about free speech it is a consequence of free speech.

Dbs, why would anyone want such decaying organic matter as Coulter to speak anywhere? But you and the rest of the decaying organic matter insult us with the phony free speech meme, This isn’t a free speech issue it is the result of the far right fascist freely speaking. Just as you got it wrong on fascism you got it wrong on the free speech, zero for two. Next you will be trying to convince us these fascist aren’t Trump supporters.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 23, 2017 12:04 PM
Comment #415488

“Definition of fascism: Political ideology that imposes strict social and economical measures as a method of empowering the government”


Sounds like the left to me.

Posted by: dbs at April 23, 2017 2:52 PM
Comment #415489

j2t2 has sailed right past free speech into the defense of who deserves to speak. His copy of the First Amendment to the Constitution was last seen being flushed down a communal toilet by Left-wing thugs and brainwashed pampered students.

Unconscionable? Yes

Expected of the Left? Yes

Tolerated by the supposedly educated? Yes

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 23, 2017 3:14 PM
Comment #415490

Coulter should be allowed to speak at Berkeley because she is entitled to free speech.

This is not the first time a hateful person used their right to free speech to spread hatred. In a famous SCOTUS case in Skokie, IL, neo-Nazis demanded the right to exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly by marching through that Jewish community. The Supreme Court recognized their right to do so, even though it was a terrible thing for anyone to want to do. It was unquestionably hateful. An outbreak of violence was possible. Yet the Neo-Nazis had that right.

Coulter engages in self-promotion by expressing hateful ideas- the more outrageous and divisive, the better, as far as she is concerned. Yet she has the right to do just that, including giving a speech at a public university.

There is a line for exercising the right to free speech. As famously stated, a person can not shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater. As the SCOTUS said, a person can not engage in speech “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action”.

As awful and hate-filled as Coulter may be, she has not crossed that line. Berkeley and Coulter are currently attempting to reach agreement, as they should.

Posted by: phx8 at April 23, 2017 3:57 PM
Comment #415491

While I do not agree with phx8’s assessment of Ms. Coulter, I do agree with his recognition of free speech. Thank you.

What some of my Pals on the Left apparently do not know, or understand, is that they also have the right of only listening to what they wish.

Disruption of the free right of expression indicates an attitude of frustration that ones own beliefs are being challenged or rejected. This frustration can lead to violence. It is the last resort of BULLY-DUMB.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 23, 2017 4:11 PM
Comment #415496
Sounds like the left to me.

Better turn up the hearing aid dbs the definition you used is the definition of the right wing in America today. “Strict social and economic measures” is the definition of conservatism.


j2t2 has sailed right past free speech into the defense of who deserves to speak.

NO he hasn’t Royal, your inane assessment of my words is your problem. Nice try but you are arguing with yourself. You will need to read what has actually been said.


The fascist had the right to protest the same as the antifascist had the right to counter protest, ain’t nothing about violation of free speech in this . They both exercised their right to free speech. The decaying organic matter we know as Coulter is simply trying to gain attention. She will prevail should the matter go to court as it is a public school system. However this doesn’t mean the “snowflakes” do not also have a right to voice their opinion and protest her appearance. He** you conservatives want to protest a free speech violation try protesting the “free speech zones” for those protesting the president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

Posted by: j2t2 at April 23, 2017 8:02 PM
Comment #415501

J2

It doesn’t matter what they believe or if it’s left or right, they still have freedom of speech no matter where they venture in the US.

The leftist extremists have been rioting, destroying and engaging in violence to prevent speech, ever since Trump was elected. In this incidence, it seems they ran up against those who are not going to just sit back and let them have their way.

“this latest attempt to force their beliefs on the college campus, not the antifa.”

FFS, speakers are not ‘forcing’ their beliefs onto anybody. They are invited and you have a choice on whether to attend or not.

“How telling that you continue to demean the antifascist groups”

Yeah, so telling but yet your partisan blinders are so tight that you simply cannot grasp why.
They are NOT fighting ‘fascism’ in any way because there is no actual fascism at play here.

“threatening them for taking action against fascist thugs.”

No, I am condemning their violent actions and stating that people are going to get fed up with their childish antics and start pushing back. THAT is where there danger in all of this lies, J2.

“But calling the right wing fascist “real Americans” tells us why you threaten and demean.”

I said no such thing. I very clearly stated that when those little leftist extremist punks start venturing out from their safe little liberal enclaves and pull this kind of crap, real American’s won’t sit back and do nothing while they are being threatened and attacked. There’s a reason we fly our flags, why our neighborhoods aren’t filled with violence, and why we still look out for each other, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what these little leftist extremists are ‘fighting’ for.

And no, I do not consider any of these little pansies and their violent support of the fundamental transformation of our country to be ‘real American’s.’

And for God’s sake man, PLEASE read and learn WTF free speech and actual fascism really are.


Posted by: kctim at April 24, 2017 8:34 AM
Comment #415504

Who knew, that in addition to being a Tyrant, it now appears that Obama could be tagged a Traitor? It appears that Obama sold out America to get a shitty deal with Iran.

Anyone surprised? Not me.

Obama’s hidden Iran deal giveaway

By dropping charges against major arms targets, the administration infuriated Justice Department officials — and undermined its own counterproliferation task forces.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/24/obama-iran-nuclear-deal-prisoner-release-236966

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 24, 2017 6:55 PM
Comment #415505

j2t2 foolishly wrote; “She will prevail should the matter go to court as it is a public school system.”

The right to “Free Speech” does not rely upon it being spoken in a certain venue.

What a dolt.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 24, 2017 7:26 PM
Comment #415506

Obama should build his Presidential Library in Tehran, Iran.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 24, 2017 7:43 PM
Comment #415511

Here you go ‘comrades’

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/65m67k/the_troubling_implications_of_the_conflict_in/

Posted by: kctim at April 25, 2017 11:47 AM
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