Third Party & Independents Archives

America Is not Fragile and Trump Is a Pragmatist

The Weekly Standard’s Andy Smarick wrote an interesting piece a few days back on America, the constitution, and Trump. You could sum up his idea in two words:

Not Fragile.

Trump may be bullish to the point of colliding with some political and cultural norms, but America and its constitution are anything but a shop full of fragile china or brittle porcelain. And recent political events are proving Smarick right. The system of checks and balances that have managed to survive nearly two and a half centuries are doing fine, thank you very much. And shocks to the system within America’s constitutional framework tend to produce reactions - antibodies if you will - that result in new and robust equilibriums. Even if things get a little tactically unstable in the very short term.


David Frum's gloomy perspective on how America would look like under a Trump administration drew more than a little on Philip Roth's novel The Plot Against America, and it's kinda alt-history plot with Lindbergh winning the 1940 election and not FDR. Heck, the famed novelist himself has recently attacked Trump mercilessly, calling him:

... ignorant of government, of history, of science, of philosophy, of art, incapable of expressing or recognizing subtlety or nuance ...

This was early in 2017, before or as Trump was assuming office. The octogenarian lifelong FDR Democrat (they still exist?) may want to revise his sneering opinion of the president, however. As might David Frum who painted a very dark picture of America over the next 4 years.

Consider both the infighting in the West Wing and the first big press conference by CIA Director Mike Pompeo. All involving people selected by and/or very close to President Trump. Kushner, Ivanka, and Cohn over in the West Wing, are apparently bent on moving policy more towards the center as they face off against Bannon - a nationalist who has read a great deal on history, art, philosophy and government and whose opinions have influenced Trump - although to what extent we can't quite be sure.

And CIA Director Pompeo this Thursday called Wikileaks founder Julian Assange: (a) narcissist, (a) coward, (who makes) common cause with dictators. And called Wikileaks a non-state hostile intelligence service, often abetted by state actors like Russia.

And of course President Trump himself admitted that relations with Russia were at an "all-time low."

So no, Philip Roth, Trump is no philosopher-king. Or Ivy-league, faculty-lounge commander in chief. That's why he was elected. And while both conservative purists and progressive ideologues are denouncing Trump's recent u-turns in policy positions he took during the campaign, it would be wise to at least see what the results of his shifts are. And while it may be hard to delineate a clear core set of policies that Trump abides by - there are still some like immigration and trade but those have also softened or broadened since he took office - if Trump is indeed the pragmatist that he has been dismissed for being, then the only thing that matters is the results.

And that is the case precisely because the means to his ends are not Trump's to choose beyond the standard options any president has while in office. And that's because Smarick is right about how robust America's constitution truly is. And the grand irony is that President Trump is not even really proof of that. He has done nothing unconstitutional - high court rulings on his immigration orders have yet to even be considered. He has done nothing truly radical. The radicals are in the faculty lounges and in the classrooms and at the protests. And in much of the media. And Trump has put together an admirable cabinet that had shown more spine and independence than anyone - especially doomsday prophets like Frum and Roth - could have ever predicted.

The constitution is fine, we have a balanced Supreme Court now, and Trump is a pragmatist. You still want some dark, gloomy days? Don't worry, the GOP's healthcare plan will be revised and brought back for more debate. There you go.

Posted by AllardK at April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
Comments
Comment #415331

Ho hum ho hum, another it’s not Trump it’s them protestors rant.

Trump ran his mouth about his agenda and has flip flopped on promises often in the past 2 months. He has taken credit for the work of the previous administration. He and his single party government tried and failed to push through a “f**k you America” health care law. He was CiC on a failed military excursion. But what has he done that is worth crowing about? Nothing I can think of. Other than getting elected. But the country isn’t fragile.

The people who elected him by and large defend him to the end, despite the cronyism and family profiteering that would have been unacceptable iffn it were Obama and his family feeding at the trough, as if all is well with the corruption and nepotism that is a high light of this administration. But the country isn’t fragile.

Now IMHO he was definitely the best of the bunch the repubs put forth, I mean you have to be good to blame another candidates family for the Kennedy assassination, and deserved the nomination. He ran against a candidate many dems didn’t want and prevailed with help from Putin and his Russian oligarchy. Well not on the popular vote but the electoral college votes went to Trump. But the country isn’t fragile.

The point is this, look at the choice we had at election time. Bad and worse, worse won. Look at what we accept as normal for this president. So to say America isn’t fragile is short term thinking IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 14, 2017 4:08 PM
Comment #415332

The trouble with the Trump Administration, and what will make it fragile and short-lived, is that whatever they’re saying right now, they were saying something completely different before. People aren’t stupid. They’re noticing, and they’ve got a choice, neither of which options do much good for morale: rationalize his flip-flops, or turn against him.

As much as some would like to think that he is just getting his sea-legs on running a government, his problem is, he’s having to face a steep learning curve on everything, and he’s not the world’s most effective student. You guys chose somebody more for his ability to disrupt than his ability to lead. It’s like Punching water. You disrupt things, but if there’s no constructive alternative, people go back to what you disrupted, all the more eager for restoration of order, peace and tranquility.

If you disrupt a system, and want it to stay disrupted, you have to wedge something in there to hold back a return to the former status quo.

That’s been the Republicans’ problem since they took over in 1994: great at disrupting, poor at building a suitable substitute that fills people’s needs. They’ve gotten worse since Obama got elected, stirring up a mania for disrupting what the Democrats were doing and have done, with no desire whatsoever to fulfill the needs that people still want fulfilled.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 14, 2017 5:56 PM
Comment #415333

“… Trump has put together an admirable cabinet that had shown more spine and independence than anyone… could have ever predicted.”

Snort. “Spine and Independence.” Is that what it is called?

The AG lied under oath, in writing and orally, about meeting with the Russian Ambassador. He had to recuse himself from the investigation into collusion between the Russians and the Trump Campaign.

The head of the EPA lied under oath about whether he used his personal e-mails for business. He lied. The state of OK is reviewing his license to practice law.

Look, I could go on all day, but the Trump cabinet is unquestionably one of the worst in modern history, and we are not even 100 days into this administration.

Meanwhile, the top guy for our nation’s security resigned. He was being paid to be an agent for a foreign government. He has asked for immunity. He will probably end up in jail, along with Trump’s Campaign Manager and a Foreign Advisor. Good Lord. “Spine and independence”?

Our Constitution is resilient because it will withstand a presidential resignation after Trump colluded with the Russians? We are supposed to be proud of that? The Constitution is resilient despite repeated condemnations of the press, the MSM, or as Trump calls it, “the enemy of the people”? It is resilient because Trump’s attacks on the judicial branch for its “so-called” judges, and judges who cannot judge because they are Mexican, did not work? Massive protests are dismissed because they are supposedly ‘paid’ protestors, even though there is not a shred of evidence for that.

The Constitution put this disaster of a president in office even though he lost by 3 million votes. The Constitution put the People’s House into GOP hands even though only 49% of American’s voted for Republicans. It put the Senate in GOP hands even though only 42% of Americans voted for Republican Senators.

This administration will test the country to its furtherst limit. We are going to see what the American people are made of. And it is about to get worse, because a president with just a 35% approval rating is going to be sorely tempted to start a war, and see if he can generate a rally-round-the-flag effect.

Posted by: phx8 at April 14, 2017 5:59 PM
Comment #415334

I think this country needs to be tested. 90% of us haven’t really been tested at all. We’ve never experienced what history has shown our forefathers.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 14, 2017 6:58 PM
Comment #415335

MY, MY…the Liberal/Socialist roosters are crowing and it’s not even sunup.

Since they all appear to live in caves hanging by their toenails I guess they just don’t notice the “light” coming from the Trump administration. But, who cares.

Trump and the country are forging ahead to Make America Great Again.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 14, 2017 7:56 PM
Comment #415336

General Flynn, the former top national security person in the United States, resigned and has asked for immunity. He has also back filed as an agent of a foreign government.

Paul Manafort, the former Campaign Manager for Trump, has also back filed as an agent for a foreign government.

Carter Page, former Trump security advisor, has been investigated under a FISA warrant.

Roger Stone, informal advisor, has been instructed by the FBI to hold onto all materials relating to his involvement with the Russians.

Trump’s Director of the CIA has characterized Wikileaks as a non-state intelligence service hostile to the United States. Wikileaks has also been characterized as an arm of Russian intelligence. This is not new.

President “I love Wikileaks” Trump cited encouraged Americans to look at it 164 times in the month of October alone. Trump had been briefed about the nature of Wikileaks.

In October, VP Mike Pence asked Republicans to “tell your friends and neighbors” about Wikileaks.

Yeah. You know,k maybe it’s just me. But I would rather see politicians make America great again with just a little less treason.

Posted by: phx8 at April 14, 2017 10:34 PM
Comment #415339

phx8

Where are the indictments ? Sound familiar ?

Posted by: dbs at April 15, 2017 7:37 AM
Comment #415344

There were no significant indictments for the Obama administration or Hillary Clinton. Fast and Furious, the IRS ‘scandal,’ the eight investigations into Benghazi- they all crapped out. Chairman Issa issued more subpoenas than all previous Oversight Committee chairman combined, and he drew a blank. Simply put, the GOP abused their power, and their media, particularly FOX, but also Breitbart and others, lied about impending indictments of Hillary Clinton. It all turned out to be a pack of lies.

Despite the GOP controlling the Oversight and Intel Committees, and despite the best efforts by House Intel Chair Nunes to stop the investigations and prevent public testimony by Sally Yates, Brennan from the CIA, and Clapper from the NSA, the investigation is continuing in Congress. (Chaffetz on Oversight flatly refuses to look into anything).

The FBI is continuing is criminal investigation into cooperation between the Trump Campaign’s cooperation with the Russians to influence our election, and put Trump in office.

Some people think indictments will happen soon. Others believe it will take a long time, due to the expanding of the FBI’s investigation. Huge amounts of resources are being devoted as the investigation follows pathways leading to money laundering, Russian mobsters, the American mafia, and more.

Dbs,
You already know Flynn and Manafort back filed their status as agents for foreign governments. They broke the law when they failed to file last year. Flynn has already requested immunity. He has been turned down for now.

Do you think there will be indictments?

Posted by: phx8 at April 15, 2017 3:00 PM
Comment #415345

Hasn’t it been proven that Clapper lied?

What’s the point of having people testify if they lie and can get away with it?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 15, 2017 8:49 PM
Comment #415346
What’s the point of having people testify if they lie and can get away with it?

That’s just precious coming from a Conservative and a Trump supporter Weary. You can’t be serious, the hypocrisy is so overwhelming it takes the air out of the room. So you must be jesting, but let me ask you isn’t the definition of conservative Trump supporter “knowing the truth, seeing the truth but believing the lie”?

Posted by: j2t2 at April 15, 2017 10:10 PM
Comment #415349

No, j2t2. I think that’s something you made up to fill space. Answer the question. Didn’t Clapper lie during his testimony?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 16, 2017 9:47 AM
Comment #415350

Clapper lied when asked in an open hearing about highly classified surveillance capabilities. The Senate undoubtedly knew it was a lie, but they were not about to debate it in public. What they discussed behind closed doors, and whether Clapper was reprimanded, is unknown to us. Any reprimand or censuring would have been classified at that time, because the act of doing so would have confirmed the existence of those (potentially unconstitutional) capabilities. The public only became aware of those capabilities, and Clapper’s lie to hide them, when the traitor Snowden released his stolen material.

That is a much different situation from the lies told under oath by AG Sessions and the head of the EPA Pruitt. Sessions lied in writing and orally in an attempt to conceal his meeting with the Russian Ambassador. Pruitt lied about using his personal e-mail for business because he wanted to conceal his dealings with energy companies.

WW, I answered your question. Didn’t Sessions and Pruitt lie during their testimony?

Posted by: phx8 at April 16, 2017 11:57 AM
Comment #415357

I got the impression they didn’t lie, that the story was manufactured by the comedian from Wisconsin.

And even if they did, why the double standard? Why can Clapper get away with it, but Sessions can’t?

Might as well throw Hillbilly in there too. She’s undoubtedly another liar that is immune to scrutiny.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 16, 2017 5:58 PM
Comment #415358

“Why can Clapper get away with it, but Sessions can’t?”

Well, maybe it is because Clapper is an officer with an immaculate reputation who was trying to protect national security, while Sessions lied to conceal treasonous collusion with an adversary of the US.

And let’s not ever forget, Sessions was denied approval to be a federal judge by Republicans because he was a racist.

Here is a portion of Coretta Scott King’s nine page letter:

“Anyone who has used the power of his office as United States Attorney to intimidate and chill the free exercise of the ballot by citizens should not be elevated to our courts. Mr. Sessions has used the awesome powers of his office in a shabby attempt to intimidate and frighten elderly black voters. For this reprehensible conduct, he should not be rewarded with a federal judgeship.”

The Senate Judiciary Committee agreed with Coretta King.

Posted by: phx8 at April 16, 2017 8:15 PM
Comment #415360
I got the impression they didn’t lie, that the story was manufactured by the comedian from Wisconsin.

Scott Walker couldn’t manufacture anything but a fake news story in the conservative media Weary. But then that seems to be good enough for you.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 17, 2017 1:04 AM
Comment #415361

No, phx8. Clapper is not as clean and pure as the wind driven snow. The hypocrisy in your comment reeks.

j2t2, I was referring to the Jew from Minnesota who was elected with voter fraud, not the Governor from Wisconsin, who was elected three times in spite of the fake protests.

My bad.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 1:32 AM
Comment #415370

Poor WW. First, an attempt to equate Clapper with Sessions goes poorly. Gee, you were “under the impression” Sessions did not lie, but he did, both orally and in writing. That is pathetic. Next, you have to pretend lying to protect national security is no worse than lying to hide a meeting with the Russian Ambassador. Gosh, it’s practically the same thing! Therefore we should not condemn AG Sessions!

It is a sad case of “whataboutism” gone terribly wrong. Why, you even threw in Hillary Clinton, and it still didn’t work! What is the world coming to!

But wait! There’s more! First, an attempt to undermine the seriousness of the Senator who asked Sessions the question about Russia by referring to him as comedian from Wisconsin. That did not go well because Franken is from Minnesota. And as if that weren’t bad enough, you now refer to him as “the Jew from Minnesota.” Is that another attempt to undermine Franken by referring to his religion? If so, it smacks of anti-Semitism.

Posted by: phx8 at April 17, 2017 11:10 AM
Comment #415371
Clapper is not as clean and pure as the wind driven snow.

WW,

Let me see if I have your logic straight:

P1: A is not X
P2: B is not X
C: Therefore A and B are equivalent.

Irrefutable, right?

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 17, 2017 11:36 AM
Comment #415375

Franken was elected fair and square. If you want to complain about voter fraud in close elections, I’m happy to bring up the irregularities with Bush. Franken, by the way, beat his opponent like a rented mule this time. And what’s with singling him out as a Jew?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 17, 2017 3:44 PM
Comment #415383

Weary, in PC world you can only point out race or religion when they are a victim, not the perpetrator. Unless they are white, right-wing, or Christian, then it’s reversed.

The Christian from Minnesota who was elected Governor - Good
The Jew from Minnesota who was elected Senator - Bad

Posted by: kctim at April 17, 2017 4:50 PM
Comment #415385

We better have Wikipedia shut down because that’s where I found out he was a Jew! Why does stating a fact send our liberal friends into a conniption fit? Is calling Obama our first black president racist also? Like I said, the Democratic party is the party of racists! The Democratic party also tried to elect the first woman president! Freekin’ sexists, also!

No, I’m being too hard on the poor thin-skinned Democratics. It’s really they are just hypocrites.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 7:25 PM
Comment #415386
j2t2, I was referring to the Jew from Minnesota who was elected with voter fraud, not the Governor from Wisconsin, who was elected three times in spite of the fake protests.

My bad.

Yes it is your bad Weary.

Because the “voter fraud” you claim has proven to be just another conservative lie. The real fraud was the conservative Minnesota majority group that tried to make all these lies into a… well…. a Goebbels award.

The ironic thing about your confusion, which is understandable, of Wisconsin and Minnesota is the clown I thought you was talking about, Scott Walker was elected “with voter fraud” as you say.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 17, 2017 7:36 PM
Comment #415387

So Weary tells us “the Jew from Minnesota who was elected with voter fraud,” and then kctim comes up with “The Jew from Minnesota who was elected Senator” and then they both, well Weary anyways, proceed to go off the deep end into the universe for the completely stupid. Kctim if your comment was an actual reflection of the facts why would you have to change what Weary actually said?


Weary, My question to you is pretty much the same as phx8’s question ” Is that another attempt to undermine Franken by referring to his religion?” Weary what was your intent when you used his religion to describe him? But hey who knows perhaps it is me who has screwed up because,irony of ironies, Norm Coleman from Minnesota could also be the “the Jew from Minnesota who was elected with voter fraud” as he is Jewish as well. Is that who you meant?

Seems to me you two are stepping on your d**ks as you attempt to insult us with the “dems are the racist” lie. SO Weary in true fascist form it seems you are leading the way for the Goebbels award this year with your constant repeating of the lie…. Only because Trump appears to have slowed a bit.

“A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth”
Joseph Goebbels


Posted by: j2t2 at April 17, 2017 9:15 PM
Comment #415388

It’s your story, j2t2. Is that all you’ve got? Two paragraphs of childish insults?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 9:54 PM
Comment #415389

This is just an exercise in how easy it is to get a Democratic’s panties in a twist.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 9:55 PM
Comment #415390
This is just an exercise in how easy it is to get a Democratic’s panties in a twist.

Seems to me it is more of an embarrassing moment for you Weary. Nobodies panties are in a twist over your lies and hate. You seem to think that someone calling you out has the problem with their panties, I would however suggest it is you with the problem.


Is that all you’ve got? Two paragraphs of childish insults?

How about I try some intelligent quotes from you…oh wait….

Word of the day Weary, Agnotology

Posted by: j2t2 at April 17, 2017 10:26 PM
Comment #415391

How can I hate someone who provides me with such humor? I love laughing at you guys and your faux outrage.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 10:34 PM
Comment #415392

What worries me about Trump is that he started with such low approval ratings, and they have dropped even further since then, and that will tempt him to do start a war. It looks like that will be virtually the only way he can command any loyalty.

That was why I said, on Day 1, that the only thing a Trump administration could do that my family could not weather would be a nuclear strike. Right now, the administration is adrift, being run by generals and Goldman Sachs guys. The Trump administration is in decline by virtually every metric. It is a record of failure, broken promises, and policy reversals as far as the eye can see.

The corruption doesn’t matter. I said that on Day 1 too. This will be the most corrupt administration in history. It won’t even be close. Trump will not release his taxes. His ‘blind trust’ is being administered by his sons, who he meets with on a regular basis. The Obama policy of making visitor logs to the White House public is being discontinued by Trump. Every lobbyist and crook in the world will be lining up for the White House Tour, but only if they can’t make it down to Florida, whose attendees are also concealed from the public. Oh! Something else new. Waivers can be secretly given to lobbyists who get administration positions, so they can immediately go to work on whatever they were lobbying for. I tell you, it is a GREAT time to be a criminal!

Posted by: phx8 at April 17, 2017 10:37 PM
Comment #415393

I heard he was at 50% approval now.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 17, 2017 11:11 PM
Comment #415394

WW,
You heard wrong. Gallup has him at 41%. Most pollsters have him in the high 30’s low 40’s.

Oh. I see what you are doing. You ‘heard’ about that 50% number but did not want to cite the source, Rasmussen, because that would instantly discredit it with anyone who knows the first thing about polling.

Posted by: phx8 at April 17, 2017 11:48 PM
Comment #415397
How can I hate someone who provides me with such humor?
Weary it is the denial in your comments that give you away. You can’t respond with facts so you deny and ignore the issue.
I love laughing at you guys and your faux outrage.

As long as you remember these cheap thrills come at the expense of your integrity.Ya see Weary I haven’t displayed any “faux outrage”. That numbskull excuse is simply the inability to respond to the issue at hand. Why not man up and answer the question ” Is that another attempt to undermine Franken by referring to his religion?” You made the statement now you run from it using foolish denial and projecting excuses. Then you try to tell me the shoe is on the other foot, Ha…. the shoe is on the foot that is in your mouth Weary.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/put_one%27s_foot_in_one%27s_mouth


Conservative logic Weary is holding you down making you an embarrassment to yourself and other conservatives. Using one poll instead of the many to tell us Trump is up to 50% in the polls!!! Such a lame attempt to justify your position, you must gfeel like the one legged man.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=one%20legged%20man%20in%20an%20ass%20kicking%20contest


Posted by: j2t2 at April 18, 2017 5:15 AM
Comment #415400

You guys are great at shooting the messenger. I doubt you would accept any number that makes Trump acceptable. You’re in denial. Your side can’t even accept the fact he was elected in the first place. You’ll never give him the benefit of the doubt except if it is in your favor, like going to war.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 18, 2017 9:16 AM
Comment #415402
You’ll never give him the benefit of the doubt except if it is in your favor, like going to war.
Politicians who oppose the Founding Fathers’ ideals deserve skepticism, not the benefit of the doubt. Posted by: Warren Porter at April 18, 2017 9:32 AM
Comment #415403

Bloggers who espouse the founding fathers after 100 years of leftist socialism deserve skepticism, also.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 18, 2017 9:46 AM
Comment #415405

Sure, by all means be skeptical of such people. But I don’t see anyone here advocating for leftist socialism.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 18, 2017 10:52 AM
Comment #415406

If you advocate for the likes of Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson, you advocate for leftist socialism.

These are your founding fathers, Warren Porter.


Posted by: Weary Willie at April 18, 2017 11:02 AM
Comment #415408

I’m a liberal. Like any American, sometimes I agree with what those men did and sometimes I disagree. In any case, calling them my “founding fathers” is beyond absurd. Liberalism pedigree stretches back far further in time than that.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 18, 2017 2:55 PM
Comment #415409

PHX8 defines “criminal” and corrupt” in the Trump administration as…

“Trump will not release his taxes”

“His ‘blind trust’ is being administered by his sons”

Discontinuation of “The Obama policy of making visitor logs to the White House”

“Waivers can be secretly given”

My God Man…this is terrible, this is horrible, this is a ground for impeachment.

“Liberalism pedigree stretches back far further in time than that.”
Posted by: Warren Porter at April 18, 2017 2:55 PM

The Liberalism as practiced and enlarged upon today truly has its roots in the Roosevelt era.

What my Pals on the Left advocate is nowhere near Classical Liberalism.


Posted by: Royal Flush at April 18, 2017 3:23 PM
Comment #415410

Well, that leftist socialist Trump is at it again. He is addressing a bunch of workers in WI today. Workers! And he is going to sign a dictatorial, tyrannical Executive Order that directly and blatantly tries to interfere with capitalism and the free market, by demanding Americans pay more when they buy stuff. He wants them to buy expensive American goods rather than cheap Chinese ones.

If that wasn’t bad enough, he has turned into quite the Commie Pinko sympathizer too. During the campaign he kept saying he would have China declared a currency manipulator on Day 1. Day 1!!! And then he meets with the Commie president, and the next thing you know, Trump says China is NOT a currency manipulator. And even as Trump and the Commie leader make nice, at the exact same time-

The Chinese sign a big trademark deal with Ivanka’s business.

Posted by: phx8 at April 18, 2017 4:13 PM
Comment #415411

“…Trump says China is NOT a currency manipulator.”

Please provide the quote phx8.

Phx8 continues to spin everything positive concerning President Trump as we all understand he must. Instead of the usual “promise and forget” method of presidential politics advanced, honed, and refined by the Left, President Trump actually attempts to keep his promises.

Regarding the Trump executive order disdained above by phx8 and spun beyond all common sense and recognition; I present you with what Trump actually said and what it means.

In this case, the executive order is designed to reform U.S. immigration policies and encourage purchases of American products.

Most H-1B visas are awarded for lower-paid jobs at outsourcing firms, many based in India, which takes work away from Americans.

The reform provides a more merit-based way to give the visas to highly skilled workers.

“Right now, widespread abuse in our immigration system is allowing American workers of all backgrounds to be replaced by workers brought in from other countries,” Trump said.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 18, 2017 4:38 PM
Comment #415412
encourage purchases of American products.
AKA socialism. How many times do we have to tell you, central planning isn’t going to work. The decision whether or not to purchase American or foreign products belongs in the hands of the consumer, not government bureaucrats. Posted by: Warren Porter at April 18, 2017 5:08 PM
Comment #415413

Don’t try to flimflam me with that leftist socialist mumbo jumbo. Corporations should be able to hire whoever they want. That’s the free market, baby. Americans should be able to buy whatever goods and services they want. Why should the government force consumers to pay more? More lefty socialism, forcing an economic outcome on free Americans. And I have been reliably informed by many, many commenters on WB that Executive Orders are the works of a tyrant and dictator. Or have you forgotten?

Here is a somewhat witty and absolutely brutal article on Trump’s reversals:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446825/

The author of the article is right.

You got taken. You got hornswoggled by a carnival barker. You got scammed by a grifter. Your first clue should have been when he bragged about being such a great businessman, but wouldn’t release his taxes. Your next clue should have been that every American bank refuses to lend him money.

Posted by: phx8 at April 18, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #415414

My Lefty Pals are having trouble getting enough oxygen considering where their political heads are located.

What part of “encourage” involves “central planning”?

Mandates from The Tyrant Obama dictated our purchase of light bulbs, toilets, health care and more.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 18, 2017 5:13 PM
Comment #415415

“Don’t try to flimflam me with that leftist socialist mumbo jumbo.”

You are sooooo easy phx8. Please tell us all what, in defending your awkwardly stated position, is the relationship between H-1B visas, socialism, and corporate hiring.

Your description of President Trump’s failures are amusing. For example, he can’t be a great business man because he won’t release his tax information. What a truly witless statement.

Or, “every American bank refuses to lend him money”.

Really my audacious Pal? You have contacted every American bank and know this for certain? How inept, how silly, how crude. Or perhaps you read this claim written by one of your half-wit Lefty Pals.


Posted by: Royal Flush at April 18, 2017 5:26 PM
Comment #415416
If you advocate for the likes of Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson, you advocate for leftist socialism.

Only in your world Weary. In reality there is no such thing as “leftist socialism” Weary it is a term coined by some dips**t far right propagandist to keep stupid people in fear. Seems it worked on you. I would offer the presidents you mention are the equivalent of the founding fathers for the industrial age not the agrarian age of our original founding fathers.

FDR saved us from communism on the left and and fascism on the right during his four terms in office. He won a minimum of 430 electoral college votes and the popular vote with a minimum of 53.7% of the vote, yet you would have us believe the vast majority of American people voted in these numbers for a “leftist socialism” candidate! He was liberal not socialist or “leftist socialism” as you claim. Time to pull your head out of your a** and realize you are clueless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Posted by: j2t2 at April 18, 2017 5:45 PM
Comment #415417

They will believe anything they’re told about Trump if it’s demeaning to him. They’d believe Trump got up in front of Americans and told them they’re going to pay more.

“MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! PAY MORE FOR YOUR PRODUCTS!”

Yea, right. Hey, if we deducted all the corporate taxes paid by corporations, how much less expensive would their products be? If we deducted all the liability insurance premiums paid by corporations how much less expensive would their products be? If they paid less for environmental bookkeeping regulations, how much less expensive would their products be? If they paid less taxes for unemployment, healthcare, social security, medicare/aid and simply paid their employees a flat dollar amount, how much less expensive would their products be?

Our government is pricing us out of the market place, not the “greedy” corporations.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 18, 2017 5:55 PM
Comment #415418

RF,
Are you serious? Do you really not know this? American banks refused to lend to Donald Trump after his bankruptcies. He and his family do their banking through Deutsche Bank. That is interesting because Deutsche Bank was fined over $600 million by the US and UK for money laundering over $10 billion. You read that right. Billion with a ‘b.’ Guess what country Deutsche Bank was doing it for? C’mon. Guess! Yep. That’s right. Russia.

So the head of Deutsche Bank resigned in disgrace. And another bank hired him. A bank notorious for doing money laundering for the Russians. Guess what bank. I’ll give you a hint. Wilbur Ross, the Secretary of Commerce, owns a substantial share. Another major investor is the Russian Oligarch who paid Trump almost $100 million for a property Trump bought two years prior for just $40 million. So, guess what bank! That’s right. The Bank of Cyprus.

Guess what country Paul Manafort visited last year? Guess where he did his banking? You got it. Cyprus. The Bank of Cyprus.

Look, this has all been reported on extensively. Here is a link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/deutsche-bank-examined-trump-account-for-russia-links

There is some good news. The Attorney General of Cyprus has agreed to cooperate with American investigators.

Posted by: phx8 at April 18, 2017 6:17 PM
Comment #415419

Thanks for the link phx8. All your claims and charges were refuted in the article. Here’s the quote; “The internal review found no evidence of any Russia link…”

By the way phx8, I am still waiting for the evidence behind your statement; “every American bank refuses to lend him money”.

Government Control has an inverse relationship to Personal Freedom. The more control government has the less freedom individuals have. Do my Pals on the Left agree?

At the two extremes you have either a total dictatorship or you have total anarchy. The founding fathers thought about 40% government with about 60% personal freedoms was the best approach. Do my Pals on the Left agree?

This balance allows free enterprise to flourish, with enough control to prevent abuses. However, they realized this type of government would only succeed with a moral and honest population. Do my Pals on the Left agree?

Does Capitalism or Socialism most nearly fulfill the promises of our Constitution and our Democratic Republic?

Vote for Capitalism…

Vote for Socialism…

Or, Vote for some Liberal nirvana that allows limited Capitalism and much more Socialism…

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 18, 2017 6:48 PM
Comment #415420

“The bank said it would not be drawn on what had prompted the internal examination, who had undertaken it or what its findings had been.

Deutsche said it would not say anything about whether the review had found any links between Trump’s loans and Moscow.”

Deutsche Bank is not talking. It denies any wrongdoing. The bank is currently under investigation by the FBI.

It is difficult to find evidence for something that is not happening. American banks do not lend money to Trump.

“Other Wall Street banks, after doing extensive business with Mr. Trump in the 1980s and 1990s, pulled back in part due to frustration with his business practices… Citigroup Inc., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Morgan Stanley are among the banks that don’t currently work with him. At Goldman Sachs Group Inc., bankers “know better than to pitch” a Trump-related deal…

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-all-North-American-banks-have-blackballed-Trump-that-hes-getting-money-from-Russia-instead

This isn’t some great mystery. Trump declared bankruptcy half a dozen times. Banks do not loan money to people who stiff them.

You are welcome to find evidence of a North American bank lending money to Trump.

Posted by: phx8 at April 18, 2017 8:53 PM
Comment #415423

WW,
That article is from January. Apparently the optimism for B of A was very short lived. The stock price was @ 22 when the article came out. It went up to @25. It is now back to @22. Meanwhile, the economy is almost precisely the same as it was under Obama. The only difference is that Republicans became optimistic because they hated Obama and believed a lot of false things, and now accept as true the things they previously claimed to be false. It was totally irrational. There is no correlation in reality to support the change in attitude.

Posted by: phx8 at April 18, 2017 10:10 PM
Comment #415425

That’s funny, phx8. Remember when you guys said how the previous president is responsible for the economy in the beginning of the next term? Now you’re saying the economy is trash and it’s only been 3 months into Trump’s presidency. What happened to the assertion about the economy and who’s to get credit?

Aren’t you, in fact, trashing Obama’s record when you complain about the economy in such an early stage of Trump’s presidency?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 18, 2017 10:21 PM
Comment #415426
At the two extremes you have either a total dictatorship or you have total anarchy. The founding fathers thought about 40% government with about 60% personal freedoms was the best approach.

Royal where on earth do you get this 60/40 combination? Certainly not from the Constitution. While you are at it back up your “This balance allows free enterprise to flourish, with enough control to prevent abuses.” statement with something from the founding fathers please.

IMHO you claim a lot about economic freedom yet I didn’t notice it being addressed in the Constitution. Using the norms at the times I have to say I think you are blowing smoke Royal.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 18, 2017 10:48 PM
Comment #415428

WW,
I never said the economy is trash.

Banks love an economic environment with rising interest rates. They make more money that way.

Fairly or not, we measure a president’s performance for a term from their inauguration to the conclusion, even if they did nothing to effect the first weeks or months. Trump and the GOP have done nothing significant so far. The economy is on auto-pilot. That’s not a bad thing. Goldman Sachs guys are running it. Not the GOP. Not Trump. Goldman Sachs guys. All the talk about tariffs went bye-bye, and that is a good thing too. All those promises by Trump about trade went bye-bye. Now we are drifting. The economy inherited from Obama is fine. Benign neglect will not hurt it.

The last unemployment report- 89,000 non-farm payroll jobs added- was enough to cause some hesitation. The Fed might be a little more cautious about raising interest rates as aggressively as everyone originally thought. By the way, that may be why the bank stock prices retreated recently. Banks want higher interest rates, and it may happen slower than anticipated. Prospects for ‘tax reform’ are on hold. The original plan was to kill health care and give the savings to the rich through tax cuts, but now the GOP and Trump can’t do it.

Posted by: phx8 at April 19, 2017 12:17 AM
Comment #415430

The attitude of this country has changed dramatically when Trump was elected. That simple reason is why I said Democratics don’t deserve to be in power. They failed.

As far as the economy now, it will be Democratic obstruction that disrupts it, not Trump policies. Democratics need to be eating some humble pie right now, not forcing their failed policies onto the economy through obstruction.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 19, 2017 8:49 AM
Comment #415431
The attitude of this country has changed dramatically when Trump was elected.

Zeig Heil to that my friend, but perhaps it would be more correct to say this attitude always existed, under the rocks with the fascist and nazis, but was given voice once Trump and the repubs held all three branches of government power.

Fear, hatred and denial are strong attitudes and violent ones at that we are finding out as the Trump error…er…um…era continues onward or backward, as it seems all they are doing is reversing progress, and placating the droolers who actually believe Trump will do what he promised.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 19, 2017 11:44 AM
Comment #415432

The quote used by phx8 regarding Trump and US banks was from a link to Quora) I really can’t believe this, but the quote is credited to; Kelly La Rue, Veteran, small business owner, Master Electrician

phx8 is apparently so desperate to prove a point that he has sunk to using the opinion of an electrician on banking matters.

I challenged phx8 to provide factual evidence for his comment that “every American bank refuses to lend him money”.

Frustrated, phx8 now challenges me “to find evidence of a North American bank lending money to Trump.”

Folks…does it get any funnier than that?

My guess is that phx8 has read the lie about Trump and US banks so often from sources he trusts; that he never bothered to find out if it was true.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 19, 2017 2:03 PM
Comment #415433

How many ways can I say it? American banks do not loan to Trump because of his bankruptcies. Trump does his business with Deutsche Bank.

http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/donald-trump-bank-loans/

“The bank that Donald J. Trump turns to more often than not when it comes to financing his real estate dreams is also the bank with some of the biggest reputational problems in the world.”

This is not a secret. RF, your refusal to accept this as fact is kind of weird.

Posted by: phx8 at April 19, 2017 2:26 PM
Comment #415434

Hah! Found an articled detailing Trump’s lenders:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/guide-donald-trump-debt

It looks like the last American bank to make a loan to Trump did it in 2010. Interesting article. I have never heard of some of those banks.

Posted by: phx8 at April 19, 2017 2:28 PM
Comment #415435

j2t2 asks; “Royal where on earth do you get this 60/40 combination? Certainly not from the Constitution.”

Sorry to disappoint j2, but yes; from the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Nearly 60% of those documents describe individual rights that government may not encroach or deny; and the limitations placed upon the national government.

Does j2t2 deny that our founding documents do allow free enterprise to flourish?

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 19, 2017 2:42 PM
Comment #415436

phx8, do you ever read and comprehend the articles you link? Your quote from the “fortune” link says little about Trump except for the lawsuit between him and the bank. In case you didn’t know phx8, lawsuits are not very uncommon…or, is that a secret also?

You write; “This is not a secret. RF.”

Perhaps not, but why should I be concerned about Deutsche Bank’s reputation?

Love the link to “motherjones” phx8. It does prove that American banks lend Trump money. It is hilarious…you proved yourself wrong.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 19, 2017 2:58 PM
Comment #415437

No American bank has loaned to Trump since 2010. Seven years ago. And the last one in 2010 was for a relatively small amount. Notice the absence of the big money lending banks? There is a reason for that.

I’m not sure about that Ladder Capital. It is described as a small “Wall Street” company that repackages loans. It is a REIT, but not a traditional bank. Since 2012, Ladder and Deutsche Bank are the only ones to loan Trump money.

You should care about Deutsche Bank because its bad reputation is due, in part, to money laundering for the Russians. They paid a $630 million dollar fine earlier this year for a $10 billion dollar money laundering scheme they did for the Russians.

Funny how often Trump, the Russians, and money laundering keep coming up in relation to one another.

Posted by: phx8 at April 19, 2017 4:14 PM
Comment #415438

phx8, “funny” does not indicate wrong doing…does it?

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 19, 2017 5:30 PM
Comment #415442

j2t2, you’re projecting your own attitudes onto your fictitious villains. It must be a sad world you live in.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 19, 2017 6:06 PM
Comment #415449

J2,
“Kctim if your comment was an actual reflection of the facts why would you have to change what Weary actually said?”

Change what he said? Jewish? voter fraud? Everybody knew he was talking about Senator Franken. Just like everybody knows that the only reason people pretend to be upset about calling this Jewish person a Jew, is because he is a left-wing extremist.

Posted by: kctim at April 20, 2017 9:03 AM
Comment #415459

kctim,

Why do you think WW drew attention to Senator Franken’s Jewish background?

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 20, 2017 12:14 PM
Comment #415461

I’ll answer that, kctim.

The reason I drew attention to Franken’s heritage is because I knew, without a doubt, it would make you and your ilk go berserk. I love pushing your buttons. It’s so easy to get a good laugh out of you guys with your predilection for being offended. You’re the Take Offense Party. A party of thin skinned whiners.

Congratulations j2t2, you’ve succeeded again in giving me a gut bustin’ laugh.


Posted by: Weary Willie at April 20, 2017 9:59 PM
Comment #415462

I didn’t notice it was you who posted, Warren Porter. I thought it was j2t2.

Why do you think I referred to Franken being a Jew?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 20, 2017 10:03 PM
Comment #415471
Why do you think I referred to Franken being a Jew?

I had no idea. That’s why I asked.

I drew attention to Franken’s heritage is because I knew, without a doubt, it would make you and your ilk go berserk.

Is it safe for me to assume pushing the Left’s buttons is the ONLY reason you said what you said?

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 21, 2017 4:00 PM
Comment #415473

There was some other point to be made, but do you notice how the conversation got sidetracked by the burst of faux outrage generated by using a simple fact in a conversation?

Knee jerk outrage is not something used niggardly here on WatchBlog.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 21, 2017 9:56 PM
Comment #415477
the burst of faux outrage
Faux? I am pretty sure j2t2 was genuinely outraged. Regardless of whether or not your comment was motivated by racism or a desire to poke liberals in the eye, your comment was undoubtedly inflammatory. Posted by: Warren Porter at April 21, 2017 11:42 PM
Comment #415479

Only to knee jerk liberals who want to change the subject.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 22, 2017 8:52 AM
Comment #415480

I think knee-jerk opposition to racially inflammatory speech is a good thing. Why don’t you?

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 22, 2017 8:59 PM
Comment #415481

How constructive is this?

http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/009741.html#415346


j2t2 has been calling me stupid for a couple of weeks now. I ask a simple question and he insults me. The comment linked to above is a typical comment from him.

The entire thread is sidetracked on a tangent toward racism. Who cares about the subject matter of the original post, there’s a charge of racism that needs to be addressed!

And the manufacture of this issue is due to j2t2 putting words into my mouth instead of correcting my mistake. My mistake was identifying the comedian with the wrong state. j2t2 decided to put words in my mouth to make his point for him instead of pointing out where the comedian was from.

So, to correct j2t2’s LIE, FAKE NEWS, and INSULTS, I went to Wikipedia’s Franken page. He identified as practicing the Jewish faith. Fine! I’ll call him the Jew from the correct state, simply to piss him off. Because I knew I could. I knew it would.

I’m not all that amused by you people thinking you’re the only ones allowed to be offended. I’m sick and tired of you people dictating to me what is offensive to you. Grow some skin. If I was a mother and j2t2 was my fat, little 4 year old, I would spank him in a supermarket if he talked like he does to me. Get over the faux issues. I’ll bet you’ve never experienced any of them personally. Your inevitable insinuations of racism and bigotry are sidetracking more intelligent discussion from taking place.

There’s nothing wrong with having constructive discussions on WatchBlog, is there?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 22, 2017 10:48 PM
Comment #415482

Weary Willie is a racist.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 22, 2017 11:59 PM
Comment #415483

Cry Baby.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 23, 2017 1:53 AM
Comment #415484

Rather than complain with a knee jerk reaction, why don’t you toughen up, WW?

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 23, 2017 7:38 AM
Comment #415487

I’m not the one avoiding the questions about hypocrisy the Democratics enjoy when lying under oath.

I’m not the one who opens a conversation and then calls someone a racist instead of answering the question.

If you and j2t2 actually thought about having a conversation with an open mind instead of always insisting you are right and any conservative, simply because they’re conservative, are wrong, WatchBlog would be the interesting place it once was.

Now it’s just a bitch session with you people insisting, like children, that you’re infallible and anyone who disagrees with you is somehow fundamentally flawed.

If you guys can’t find anything constructive to say, why bother? I could entertain myself watching cartoons and get more information than what I get here as of late.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 23, 2017 12:05 PM
Comment #415492

WW,

If you are just going to whine and bitch at how you think everyone treats you unfairly, then no one is going to have a constructive conservation with you. Stop being so thin-skinned.

If you are interested in learning something new, grow a pair and leave your precious ego at the door. I’m not interested in coddling to your precious feelings.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 23, 2017 4:39 PM
Comment #415493

All you have to do is say conservatives are valuable and play an important role in both society and government.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 23, 2017 6:05 PM
Comment #415494

When they cast aside their tribalism and white identity politics, conservatives are valuable and play important roles in society and government.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 23, 2017 7:02 PM
Comment #415495

Do you notice you are claiming conservatives have white identity politics, but it was your party that created identity politics. Your party created a construct, included conservatives in it, and then blame them for being guilty of the definition given them.

You have just grouped every conservative into one. There’s no inclusion in this train of thought. There’s no respect. Your caveat makes your proclamation worthless.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 23, 2017 7:53 PM
Comment #415497

WW,

You have just grouped every conservative into one.

Are you trying to say all conservatives practice tribalism and white identity politics? That is not what I said.

There’s no respect.
Respect is earned, not given. If you aren’t going to respect the Left’s preference not to have its eyes unnecessarily poked, then the Left isn’t going to respect what you have to say. Stop making inflammatory remarks and stop dismissing anti-racism as thin-skinnedness and maybe respect can be reforged anew. Posted by: Warren Porter at April 23, 2017 8:42 PM
Comment #415502

It’s exactly what you said.

When they cast aside their tribalism and white identity politics, conservatives…

Your construct, your definition, your accusation. Your party made up the rules, applied them to who..?

conservatives

then, cast your self imposed guilt onto them for political purposes.

Instead of fighting your battles admirably, the Democratic party must vilify their opponents to get their way.

That’s not respect. That’s not compromise. That’s not working together. That’s brute force.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 24, 2017 9:32 AM
Comment #415503

WW,

Please note that Comment #415494 does not contain the words “all”, “every” or anything similar. I made a distinction between conservatives who practice white identity politics and those who do not. Your choice to fabricate the idea that all conservatives engage in this sort of tribalism says far more about you than it does me.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 24, 2017 11:12 AM
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