Third Party & Independents Archives

So Pleased That Obamacare Still Stands

Obamacare legislation failed to pass in the House today. May be a couple of years before the COP has the courage to try again. So totally pleased that the bill failed.

Now Trump's base has a real good reason to oust the Corpocratic House members when they come up for election. Obamacare will die on it's own over the next two years and so will the anti-Trump big pharma House leaches.

Life is so-o-o-o-o- good.

Posted by Roy Ellis at March 25, 2017 8:16 AM
Comments
Comment #414652

So Roy which corpocratic house members are you referring to?
BTW this was Trumpcare legislation not Obamacare legislation or now that Trumps is an a**kissing follower of Paul Ryan perhaps it is Ryancare.

Is this what you had in mind when Trump promised to repeal Obamacare, is this what the country needs as a replacement to Obamacare? Or are you happy this legislation failed because it was terrible legislation.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 25, 2017 1:54 AM
Comment #414654

Roy

I am glad that POS failed as well. It fixed nothing. Let’s hope the freedom caucus can get some traction now and put forth a bill that will actually fix the problem. Allowing all insurers into the market, competition across state lines, and offering policies tailored to the needs of the individual, or family would be a great start.

Posted by: dbs at March 25, 2017 12:52 PM
Comment #414660

The freedumb caucus is the problem dbs. They have nothing to offer but the mythical if we cut taxes on the rich it will all be ok.

These minor fixes you mention won’t solve the problem. The free market has failed us when it comes to both health care and health insurance. By the time the individual comes into it there is no competition, companies are changing carriers every year and rates are still going up. Record profits for most insurance companies yet rates continue to go up.

I think now that the repubs have exposed themselves for the lying POS they are on healthcare many people in this country are beyond happy that Ryancare and Trumpcare has been shown to be a scam and not put up for a vote.

Hopefully they back off and let the dems have another go at fixing the system.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 25, 2017 4:02 PM
Comment #414662

Hopefully they back off and let the dems have another go at fixing the system.
Posted by: j2t2 at March 25, 2017 4:02 PM

Sure, the same folks that brought us Obamacare are going to be our health care saviors?

Obamacare is on life support. Goodbye and good riddance.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 25, 2017 4:22 PM
Comment #414679
Record profits for most insurance companies yet rates continue to go up.

Fake news, j2t2.

How much do health insurers profit?

If we look average profit margins by industry, health insurance companies are pretty close to the bottom, with an overall average profit margin of just 3.3%.

Fake news, j2t2. Profits are well in line with industry standards.

You guys said the same thing about the oil industry when you expected them to submit to whatever whim of the day your side was championing then. “Big Oil” you called it with a sneer, yet their profit was between 3-4%.

So is the healthcare insurance industry’s profit, j2t2. Your pearl clutching is fake news and serves no purpose other than cast a pall over the discussion.


Posted by: Weary Willie at March 26, 2017 2:52 PM
Comment #414684
Sure, the same folks that brought us Obamacare are going to be our health care saviors?

Well I was hoping this time they wouldn’t take repubs into consideration and just do a Medicare for all system, Royal.

Obamacare is on life support. Goodbye and good riddance.

It is a wonder it is still going at all after the repubs legislation to sabotage it. Yet it is. This myth of it being on life support is such a sad losers lament IMHO Royal. Your team, after 7 years and 43 repeal votes couldn’t even agree on how many nails to put into the coffin of many Americans as they sought to destroy health care for the 98%. How can you listen to such buffoonery and run your sorry a** mouth with nothing but myth misinformation half truths and outright lies as your “facts”.

Fake news, j2t2.
Oh come on Weary you wouldn’t recognize “fake news” if it came up and bit you on the a**. Who are you kidding. The link you used as evidently “not fake news” was opinion not factual Weary.

Profits are well in line with industry standards.

Which industry are you referring to Weary? Are you suggesting that a company that by law is supposed to spend 80% of their income on health care is still up with those that have no such standards? I don’t know where you get these figures from but I doubt the veracity of said figures.
Here are a couple of links that suggest you may be wrong Weary. Add these to the many others I have posted over the years on this issue and it paints a pretty clear picture.

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/01/26/16658/health-insurers-watch-profits-soar-they-dump-small-business-customers
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/business/14health.html

Posted by: j2t2 at March 26, 2017 6:21 PM
Comment #414686

The one thing we can all agree on is how happy we all are this failure of a law, crafted the past 7 years by the repubs, to come to a vote has made us feel. Some because it is a farce of a law that makes Obamacare a great, instead of a good law, that actually helps solve some of the problems prior to the passage of the law. Others because it allowed Trump to pass blame for the repub failure to the dems, despite this being an obvious school girl attempt to save face after all the bragging done earlier. Still others are happy because it didn’t hurt the working class and poor enough.

As sad as this is it is still quite a remarkable feat the repubs, led by a political novice and con artist, had the ability to bring us all together on such a major piece of legislation. Now we can all blame Trump and his lack of political experience for this small minded bit of government, but IMHO it goes deeper than that. I think the freedumb caucus and Paul Ryan both deserve credit for this precedent setting POS that just transpired. I mean 7 years and this is the best they could do!

If I voted for any of these losers I would hang my head in shame. Whilst I can see that those that voted for Trump are happy, as am I, I wonder why they would be happy that something as simple as repealing and replacing Obamacare, after 7 years, makes them look so incompetent.

One can only hope this level of maleficence can continue until the next election. But I do question why Trump supporters would allow him to slink away from reality with the lamest of excuses we have heard from a president since well forever. If, as a Trump supporter, your not having second thoughts one has to question if you are having any thoughts at all after this debacle. Perhaps that is why some are so happy.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 26, 2017 10:34 PM
Comment #414687

j2

Why would they let the dems have another go at it ? They are the ones that f@#$ked things up in the first place. Saddling the middle class with skyrocketing premiums and deductibles all so they could give handouts to those they hoped would vote for them after receiving subsidized, and free healthcare on the backs of the middle class.

Posted by: dbs at March 27, 2017 6:49 AM
Comment #414690

Like I said dbs this time around they can drop kick the repubs instead of trying to work with them. The reality of the situation is they used the old repub plan from the ‘90’s for the most part. The dems negotiated with themselves way to much IMHO in their attempt to work with the repubs last time around.

As far as f**cking things up, lets not forget the repubs and their sabotaging of the ACA once they gained power in Congress. Yet somehow you now think they will work to fix things! Even after this POS legislation they just tried to pass, even the more moderate repubs couldn’t stick it to the middle class to the degree the Trump/Ryan plan called for. What does it take for you and the Trumpsters to realize the conservatives are into some serious class warfare against the middle class?

Your analysis appears to be politically motivated and wrong headed IMHO. Universal health care is the goal and kowtowing to the industries that have pillaged the system needs to be addressed. The employer based system needs to be replaced instead of enhanced, I would agree as a remedy for the middle class but hey as long as conservatives want a free market system the middle class will continue to take it in the shorts.

To think the repub repeal and replace legislation wouldn’t effect the middle class is wishful thinking. We can all go bankrupt like the good ol days with the Trump/Ryan help the rich system they tried to get the dems to bite on. The problem they had with the freedumb caucus was it wasn’t draconian enough for them, that doesn’t sound like help for the middle class to me.

The dems need to obstruct and keep up on the resistance to this one party government attempt to set the people of this country back to the gilded age. Making government small minded doesn’t work.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 27, 2017 8:13 AM
Comment #414691

Anybody expecting the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus to save them is wasting their time. It is and always was a fraud meant to provide an easier and shorter path for Establishment Republicans to take to get back into power after the Debacle of the Bush Administration. The problem is, like with Trump, the appeal to the public got away with itself. The force it took to shift public opinion that strongly, that quickly, came from Republicans essentially lying their asses off about the bill, portraying it as some monstrous thing, set to destroy freedom itself while killing grannie.

Additionally, the Tea Party Caucus, being as far right as it is and always has been, has never been good at negotiating and horse trading with the other side, whether that’s their rivals in the party, or opponents beyond it. They’re so partisan that they won’t make the deals necessary to get done. Instead, they try and dictate terms. Ironically enough, Trump tried the same thing with them, and boy did it not work. Just as they didn’t have to accept Trump’s insistence that they had to pass the AHCA, neither did the rest of the party or the other side of the aisle in Congress have to go along with the Tea Party’s willingness to watch the world burn in order to get their way politically. The same stubborn political attitudes that made them so good at selling the Return of the GOP to the majority, also made them incapable of delivering legislation that could pass a Democratic Party-led White House, incapable of playing ball enough to pass a bill under a Republican.

The Tea Party is all about talk, talk, and more talk. The purest talk you ever saw, the purest insistence on Republicans getting their way… but when push comes to shove, when it comes to binding law they’re neither good at writing bills nor passing them. They are like those radicals in college, full of utopian vim and vigor, but with absolutely no idea how to work with other people or how to just do what it takes to move the needle.

Obama was constantly ridiculed for being a community organizer, and Pelosi and Reid for all the compromises they made, but they all managed to do what Republicans have not, in no small part because our former President knew how to persuade the persuadables, to line up stakeholders on the side of the legislation, and the people in Congress hadn’t been burdened with people so ideologically overwrought that they couldn’t function in a deliberative body, where every other member has the ability to walk away.

In fact, if you want an illustration of why it was so hard for Republicans to make policy today, we only have to look eight years back to the Republicans caustic reaction to the Three Republicans, including the late Arlen Specter, crossing the aisle to support the stimulus. They actually punished them so harshly that Specter ended up crossing the aisle permanently and becoming a Democrat. Without that, Democrats wouldn’t have had the ability to legislate much of anything under the GOP’s constant filibuster.

And now? What can they do? They’re so concerned about political purity and forcing their will on other people that they’ve forgotten basic skills surrounding dealing with other people. Hell, the fact that Trump was supposed to be some kind of awesome dealmaker only heightens the irony. Republicans are dealing with a system designed to frustrate those who rush into power without building a long-standing consensus, but they’re behaving like Selfish ideologues. They are behaving in exactly the ways designed to provoke crippling counterresponses from our constitutional system.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 27, 2017 8:29 AM
Comment #414725

Sure, we should be somewhat satisfied that time wasn’t wasted on Ryan’s ACA Version 2. But pleased? Hardly.
The ACA will continue to fail and things will only keep getting worse for the American people. This Republican failure will usher in something much more detrimental to our individual rights and freedoms than the ACA is: governmental health care.

The spineless Republicans have thrown away what was probably their last chance to do something significantly good for the country.

Posted by: kctim at March 28, 2017 11:18 AM
Comment #414727

kctim, what good would have come from the legislation that repealed Obamacare and ushered in Trump/Ryan care?

Posted by: j2t2 at March 28, 2017 11:49 AM
Comment #414728

No good would have come, J2. That’s why I said we can be somewhat satisfied that they didn’t waste time on it.
Republicans were swept into office partly to repeal the ACA, they lack the spine to do it, and they will pay in the coming elections when voters don’t bother to show up and vote for them.

Posted by: kctim at March 28, 2017 11:55 AM
Comment #414738

Right on kctim. Let’s do our best to remove the leeches from office come election time.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 28, 2017 4:06 PM
Comment #414744

kctim,

It’s not a spine that Republicans lack, it’s an electoral mandate.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 28, 2017 6:38 PM
Comment #414748

They also lack a clue. After 7 years they don’t have a clue as to what they need to do to replace Obamacare. They have tiny little fixes for Obamacare but nothing to fill the void a repeal vote would cause. I mean how many want to go back to people going bankrupt because they got ill? 7 Years and the repub lite Obamacare plan has stumped these guys.

Those that “swept” them into office don’t really have a clue as to what to do either. Most Americans don’t like it because they have been told over and over it wasn’t any good. Well that was Obamacare the ACA was better according to some.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 29, 2017 12:31 AM
Comment #414753

Warren,

The Republicans ran on doing what’s right for the country and over the past eight years their voters have given them the numbers to do so. Now those elected Republicans are concerned about offending and appeasing those who did not vote for them and who are in the streets calling them Nazi’s.
It’s really no surprise though. Year after year, leftists take the country 100 steps further into the socialist abyss, and year after year the Republicans only try to actuallydo something about the last 3 or 4 steps.
Republicans are spineless saps who go along to get along.

As far as mandates, the more we move away from being a representative republic and slide further towards being a social democracy, the more a simple majority will be declared a mandate. That is what has divided the country so much, and is partly why we now have Trump as President.

Posted by: kctim at March 29, 2017 9:49 AM
Comment #414754

There were no one in the media who said Donald Trump would become president. There were no politicians who said Donald Trump would become president. The media and the political establishment went out of their way to ridicule and laugh at this candidacy.

Then he won.

If that isn’t a mandate I don’t know what is.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 29, 2017 10:18 AM
Comment #414755
doing what’s right for the country

That’s just a vague platitude, not an embrace of conservatism. If Republicans truly wanted to run on a conservative platform, they’d have to boast that they wish to increase the number of uninsured. But they haven’t. Instead, they have implicitly accepted the Left’s premise that government has a responsibility for ensuring a certain portion of the population receives healthcare.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 29, 2017 10:27 AM
Comment #414756
The Republicans ran on doing what’s right for the country
They ran a long con on the American people, they voted on what was good for the 1% that bribed them, unless you think obstructionism is good for the American people.
and over the past eight years their voters have given them the numbers to do so.

Well the voters didn’t give Trump the numbers the electoral college, not to mention gerrymandering and voter suppression laws and Russian interference,did.

Now those elected Republicans are concerned about offending and appeasing those who did not vote for them and who are in the streets calling them Nazi’s.

Really! You can’t be serious kctim. The Ryan/Trump abomination just wasn’t hurtful enough for the extremist conservatives to vote for it.

Year after year, leftists take the country 100 steps further into the socialist abyss, and year after year the Republicans only try to actuallydo something about the last 3 or 4 steps.

Wow this is some major Faux news reality-think kctim. But let me make sure I understand what you are saying. The repubs control most of the state legislatures and have controlled Congress the past 6 years, including the freedumb caucus, but it is the leftist that has passed all the laws and… well what exactly…. makes this myth plausible enough you would repeat it?

That is what has divided the country so much, and is partly why we now have Trump as President.

We have Trump as president because he was the best of the repub bunch and Clinton wasn’t good enough to beat him. The country is divided because we are dumbed down to the point we believe the long con game of the 15 that give marching orders to the Congress. Because despite the GWB error…era.. we still believe John Galt…er.umm.. A businessman can govern. So we doubled down on stupid. We seem to suffer from AynRanditis.


If that isn’t a mandate I don’t know what is.

We agree Weary you don’t know what a mandate is if this Blaineism is what you think a mandate is. Why not tell us a mandate is two guys going out for dinner, it is about as logical as the nonsensical straw you grasp.

“He won the election so convincingly that he believed he had been given a mandate for change”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate

Trump lost the popular vote, won the electoral college, hardly a mandate. He had to have the Russians run a misinformation campaign to win the electoral college and still couldn’t win the popular vote.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 29, 2017 11:31 AM
Comment #414757

WW,

If that isn’t a mandate I don’t know what is.

Have you ever heard of someone winning an absolute majority of the popular vote? You know, like what Obama did. Twice.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 29, 2017 11:42 AM
Comment #414760

“the long con game of the 15” should be ” the long con game of the 1%

Posted by: j2t2 at March 29, 2017 1:29 PM
Comment #414790

Warren, it indeed is just a “vague platitude”. Unfortunately, like others such as ‘pro choice’ and ‘pro worker’, it works.
Your “boast” comment is just plain silly. If you refuse to do something, it is YOU who is at fault for not getting it done. It is NOT the fault of government for not forcing others to do it for you.

J2,
If you don’t mind, I’ll just skip over the 1%, gerrymandering, voter suppression laws and Russian interference nonsensical BS conspiracy theories.

Republicans ran on repealing the ACA, they were elected to do so and it is now their job to do it. Instead, they tried to ride the fence and came up with a plan that came no where close to repeal.
The idea that one is an extremist, simply for being against an involuntary government mandate created to control and condition individual behavior, is absurd and spits in the faces of our founders.

“But let me make sure I understand what you are saying.”

In order to do that, you will first have to drop all the silly a$$ conspiracy theories and blind partisanship.

It is reality, not a letter behind your name or what political party you belong to, that determines the path we are on.
On a daily basis, government mandates favor the desires of society over the rights of the individual. Our government controls our free exercise of religion, deciding where it is prohibited and where it will allow it. It infringes upon our right to keep and bear arms. Our right to privacy and property, against unreasonable searches and seizures, constantly eroding away.
Even your leftist counterparts admit that the country is moving left. In fact, they even have a name for this continued assault on and loss of individual rights: “progress.” He11, they even mock actual freedom the same way you do.

As far as your take on why we have Trump as President, if you keep falling for that sort of idiocy, you guys may just snatch defeat from the jaws of victory a second time and get him for 8 years.

Posted by: kctim at March 30, 2017 10:13 AM
Comment #414791

Kctim, if the country is moving left why is it the majority of states are controlled by republican legislatures and/or governors and the Senate, the HoR and the administration is republican? If the people of this country are moving towards the left it doesn’t explain your “year after year leftist take 100 steps” comment yet you dismiss what I say as conspiracy. Me thinks the truth hurts you and you react with senseless arguments void of facts and reality.To not see gerrymandering, voter suppression, Russian interference, conservative propaganda and the outright lies of those the fund and sponsor out elected reps as issues I would suggest you do so out of convenience.

Perhaps you see repubs and moderates moving to the left because you are so far out on the right fringe everything else is left. The far right attempts to pass laws to force religion beliefs on others, that isn’t free exercise of religion my friend. So with this example I would suggest your extremist views are causing the problem not the leftist.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 30, 2017 12:12 PM
Comment #414792

“the fund and sponsor out elected reps” should be “that fund and sponsor our elected reps”

Posted by: j2t2 at March 30, 2017 2:21 PM
Comment #414816

J2,
Again, it is the policies, not the labels or the “vague platitudes” that Warren brought up, that determine the path we are on.
‘Left’ is a large, centralized and controlling government. We have one and it is constantly growing larger.
‘Left’ is trampling individual rights in order to mandate the desires and supposed “needs” of society.
‘Left’ is ALL about social engineering.
A ‘Republican’ only wanting to move 3 steps to the left instead of the 10 steps that the leftist demands, is still ‘left’.

Gerrymandering happens and our courts do their best to deal with it. But since you only care when the evil Republicans do it, it is a waste of time to debate the issue.
Actual voter suppression is rare and its impact is minimal. Your argument is based on the possible inconvenience of certain voters. I accept the personal responsibility that comes with voting and could care less if others don’t.
If Russian interference actually changed voting results this time, then all actions must be taken to charge those responsible and to prevent it from happening again in the future. If you guys are going to hang your hat on nothing but the hypocritical stance that leaked personal communications brainwashed people, then meh.
Not out of convenience, but because of the lack of facts.

“Perhaps you see repubs and moderates moving to the left because you are so far out on the right fringe everything else is left.”

Yes, the Constitution is now considered ‘fringe right’ and my unwavering support of it is now considered extreme. I don’t deny that one bit.
But I see Republicans as moving to the left because of the facts. They support government mandates and talk about cutting increases in spending, not addressing and actually doing something about how they infringe upon individual rights.

“The far right attempts to pass laws to force religion beliefs on others”

As an atheist, I can state that is nothing but pure partisan hogwash. One individual isn’t having religious beliefs forced upon them simply because there isn’t a law that forces others to support and embrace them.

“I would suggest your extremist views are causing the problem not the leftist.”

Yes, it is the Constitution, not those who bypass or change it, that are the problem. FFS

Posted by: kctim at March 31, 2017 11:07 AM
Comment #414818
Your “boast” comment is just plain silly. If you refuse to do something, it is YOU who is at fault for not getting it done. It is NOT the fault of government for not forcing others to do it for you.

“Fault” has nothing to do with it. Your brand of conservative ideology believes that people who are unable to produce enough wealth to afford very expensive health procedures don’t deserve to receive said care. That’s not the platform Republicans ran on these past 8 eight years. Instead, they’ve run on the idea that they could replace Obamacare with a different framework that would guarantee such people with cheap health care.

The invisible hand and free market competition might be great tools for reducing costs, but their powers are finite. Lifesaving medical procedures are going to remain out of many Americans’ financial reach foreseeable future. Either, we are going to decide that these people deserve to die or we are going to use the government’s cudgel to redistribute resources so that they can stay alive.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 31, 2017 1:08 PM
Comment #414825

Either, we are going to decide that these people deserve to die or we are going to use the government’s cudgel to redistribute resources so that they can stay alive.
Posted by: Warren Porter at March 31, 2017 1:08 PM

Liberals and socialist constantly search for the ideal…and never, ever find it. Perhaps Warren has never heard of trade-offs or responsible economic distribution of resources.

Who can justify spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep someone alive on life support at taxpayer expense?

Who will step forward and convince us that the life of one person is more important that the health and safety of the nation?

The Left position is always the same. Those who do not work and pay into the national bank account should have the same rights of withdrawal as those who do.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 31, 2017 3:40 PM
Comment #414831

RF,

You are preaching to the choir. I fully understand why it may be necessary to let people die because they cannot afford to pay for their own health care.

The problem is that I am not representative of Americans writ large. The people that handed Republicans control of Congress and the White House fully expect them to use the government’s powers to ensure that the lives of needy Americans are saved. AHCA did not do this and this is why any subsequent replacement proposal will fail. There is no working majority in either the American electorate nor in Congress for a truly conservative system.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 31, 2017 5:31 PM
Comment #414839

There is no working majority in either the American electorate nor in Congress for a truly conservative system.
Posted by: Warren Porter at March 31, 2017 5:31 PM

Sadly, you are correct Warren.

In another post, Stephen was bragging that the last year of the Obama administration had only a half trillion deficit.

Can you help us understand the mindset of people who believe we can have huge deficits every year and still survive as a working Republic.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 1, 2017 12:44 PM
Comment #415008

Now TrumpCare is coming.

Posted by: Truck Racing Games at April 5, 2017 11:16 AM
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