Third Party & Independents Archives

Corpocracy vs Trump'ism

Politics has taken an interesting turn over the last six months and all for the better, IMO. We’ve seen Trump pretty much go it alone in standing up to Corpocracy (Reganites and company and Clinton’s and company). And, now we’ve seen the Brit’s stand up to Corpocracy in that part of the UK. Other EU countries are making waves as well.

The issues seem to be of common interest; borders, immigration, globalism, sovereignty, and economic. A good number of folks have given a thumbs down to 'one world'ism' which I've been ranting about for many years now.

In the past I've been accused of opining conspiracy theories in saying things like 'the corpocracy pushes immigration to keep wages down and to pump up the social security roles as hard working American families choose to only replace themselves. Now, there are a number of talking heads out there saying the same. Kinda refreshing to get to get some agreement on the truth of it all.

I believe Trump will become president but don't think he can do much to change the ways of corpocracy on the issues.

For example, I would see the corpocracy bringing guns to the border to prevent Trump from putting up any wire.

But, what we have here is a most opportune time to start working on a new 3rd party with some rules to prevent the type of special interest corruption/corpocracy we have had for a couple of hundred years. One can go back beyond 1886 when the railroaders and the SC got together to invoke 'corporate personhood' w/o there ever being a hearing on the matter, and so on - - -

Corpocracy has lied to us about the 'need' for immigrants and the fruitfulness of globalism as they quietly go about replacing workers with robots and moving every business function they can to foreign (cheap) labor markets. They want the country on it's back as in $25T debt, part time jobs, etc, so the folks will turn to them for salvation out of fear.

It took the longest running recession in history and Trump to slip the yoke of corpocracy and I am well pleased for that.

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by Roy Ellis at June 25, 2016 4:36 PM
Comments
Comment #405597

The problem is the ease with which opposition to ‘the corpocracy’ turns into nationalism, isolationism, opposition to trade, and opposition to immigrants, with all the racist baggage that comes along with the latter.

Europe experienced two horrendous world wars last century. Nationalism played a large role. Isolationism made it worse. Opposition to trade prolonged a worldwide recession. Racism and bigotry resulted in millions of deaths.

Thanks to ‘the corpocracy,’ Europe has enjoyed over four decades of peace and prosperity. The EU gave Europeans the opportunity to travel freely across the continent, work in different countries without limitations, and see the benefits that come with an economy of scale- namely, one huge economy trading freely within the EU, rather than over a dozen small ones with barriers to trade causing inefficiencies and higher prices for everyone.

In this country, Trump and his followers threaten all of us with the same dangers that led to global tragedies in the past, such as nationalism, isolationism, xenophobia, racism, bigotry, and more. Claims about the poor state of the economy run rampant, and cloud legitimate concerns about the distribution of the economy’s successes.

But make no mistake. Britain has turned itself into an awful cautionary tale of what happens when the political equivalent of a Donald Trump wins. Even one victory can be devastating. Just ask the Brits. They wanted all of the privileges and benefits that came with the EU and thought they would continue with no possible downside, and their politicians lied to them, just as Trump lies and lies and lies to us.

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2016 6:21 PM
Comment #405598

One would think that a person with phx8’s experience and intelligence would understand better the BREXIT vote.

The political class, and others who have their own selfish agenda wish to complicate matters so simple to understand.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2016 6:43 PM
Comment #405600

I suggest a fun brain exercise for my Liberal Pals. Imagine the United States had a single workers union fashioned after the European Union.


Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2016 6:52 PM
Comment #405602

I have a fun exercise, imagine the US without a Commerce Clause and each state has protectionist tariffs on imported goods (from other states) and enforced borders. Interstate commerce would grind to a halt. The great engine of US economic development has been the Commerce Clause. The EU is simply a Commerce Clause for Europe.

The EU was a vision of Winston Churchill who thought that modeling European economic and social integration after the US was key to European prosperity and peace. Ironic that Great Britain may be the party that destroys that vision.

Posted by: Rich at June 25, 2016 8:58 PM
Comment #405603

Rich,
Good analogy, but what happened goes farther than that. For example, many large EU organizations, especially financial ones, have their headquarters in London. All those will leave. The pound dropped 8.4% in just one day (and as low as 10$), so almost everything will be more expensive. The lay-offs will start soon, even if Britain drags its feet on departure. Their economy will soon be in recession and I don’t think there is any way to stop it.

Their economy wasn’t even doing that bad in the first place. They were experiencing @ 2% growth and 5% unemployment. That will end quickly. One projection suggested -3% growth and 7% unemployment, but this is just the opening act. I think it will be worse, especially when the Scots leave. I’m an anglophile and so is my wife, so it distresses me to see this. But the Brits brought this on themselves. Cameron messed up big time by calling the referendum. The EU messed up by being too high-handed at times. But the lion’s share of the blame falls squarely on the Brits themselves. They listened to the nationalists and anti-immigrant crowd. They bought into their lies. They thought 2% growth and 5% unemployment was a bad thing. Hoo boy.

Trump praised this outcome.

Everyone in favor of a recession, raise your hands and then vote for Trump!

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2016 10:29 PM
Comment #405612

One other consequence of the Brexit- Russia has seen its hand strengthened. The EU presented a strong, solid block of countries. Now one of its largest economies has pulled out, other countries might consider doing the same, and this potentially leaves a collection of small, weak countries on Russia’s borders, with no EU to back them up.

The Germans face a heavy lift without the British economy. It will be up to the Germans to carry the weaker economies of the southern countries.

One piece of good news- the threat of the British recession spreading into the EU is very real, but it means the US will keep its interest rates where they are right now. The already strong dollar has gained even more strength, and perhaps the long bonds will come down, meaning even lower mortgage rates. The strong dollar makes exports harder and imports cheaper, but it could also spurs construction for housing.

Man oh man, I can’t believe how badly the Brits messed up.

Posted by: phx8 at June 26, 2016 2:37 PM
Comment #405616

Rich can not respond to my imagining but rather poses his own. That’s OK…I already knew he didn’t have the brainpower to answer.

Rich writes; “I have a fun exercise, imagine the US without a Commerce Clause and each state has protectionist tariffs on imported goods (from other states) and enforced borders.”

OK, I can imagine our land mass being a collection of individual countries similar to the colonies before our successful revolution.

Somehow, Great Britain managed to be a world power for centuries on its own. It’s been a member of the EU for a mere 23 years.

phx8 jumps in with this senseless comment; “…this potentially leaves a collection of small, weak countries on Russia’s borders, with no EU to back them up.”

Hmmm…where are the EU armed forces located? What is the size of the EU Military? Who leads it?

Us uneducated dolts have believed it was NATO defending Europe against aggression. NATO includes six non EU members.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2016 3:39 PM
Comment #405630

RF,
“I think NATO is obsolete.”
Donald Trump

If the EU falls apart and European nations ‘take their countries back,’ it would not be safe to assume everything else will stay the same. Not everyone would stay in NATO, especially if countries within the current EU become hostile towards one another.

Don’t think it could happen? Can’t picture Britain and Germany not getting along, or Britain and France? There is already talk of British exceptionalism. Throw in a recession and a lot of people out of work, and you have a recipe for bad things happening- trade barriers, hostility towards immigrants turning into full blown xenophobia, and more. Do you think the Brits will blame themselves for what will happen? Did American conservatives blame George W Bush for Iran and the economic crash?

Btw, latest approval rating for Obama: 56%.

Yet another poll shows Clinton ahead of Trump by double digits.

More prominent Republicans refusing to back Trump, including Brent Scowcraft (NSA advisor to Ford and Bush #41) and columnist George Will. We keep hearing the same formula. Some Republicans will put country over party before they support a racist, bigoted, xenophobic, and misogynist candidate who is temperamentally unfit for office and does not know what he is talking about.

Remember what Trump said:

“I think NATO is obsolete.”

Posted by: phx8 at June 26, 2016 6:23 PM
Comment #405631

Iran should read Iraq.

Posted by: phx8 at June 26, 2016 6:24 PM
Comment #405632

Why won’t you say the same about Hillbilly, phx8?

She’s nasty to her opponents. She was fired from her job for being unethical. She throws books at people and swears at them and orders them around like slaves.

But, for some unknown reason it’s Trump who hasn’t the temperament for the job.

Why is that, phx8?

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 26, 2016 6:59 PM
Comment #405633

Royal,

I would answer your question if I understood it.

The EU is an organization of independent European countries with the purpose of creating a single economic market for participating countries. It was created to eliminate barriers to trade, harmonize rules of economic exchange, provide a mechanism for adjusting those rules and establish a central bank (ECB). “The European Union operates a single market which allows free movement of goods, capital, services and people between member states.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/what-is-the-eu-why-was-it-created-and-when-was-it-formed1/

As for your “brain exercise”, I don’t know where to begin. If you mean that worker unions in the US would have to operate under a common set of general principals and rules promulgated by an organization of states similar to the EU, we already have that through the federal government under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935.

If you mean that there would be only one workers union in the US organized like the EU, I guess its possible that all the various unions could form an umbrella organization short of merger and agree to operate under a common set of rules in addition to those of the NLRB. I have no idea whether it would be good or bad.

The fact of the matter is that the US already has a sovereign federal government and Constitutional authority to assure a single market for free trade, movement of capital and people across state lines and regulation of unions.

The EU is an attempt to replicate the approach of the US toward trade, movement of capital and people within the European community. Is that a bad thing?

Posted by: Rich at June 26, 2016 7:50 PM
Comment #405634

WW,
“She’s nasty to her opponents.”

Cite an example. She goes after Trump by citing his own words and positions.

” She was fired from her job for being unethical.”

False. Presumably you are referring to a conspiracy theory promoted by a person named Jerry Zeifman. Do a little research. It is not difficult to discover this has been thoroughly debunked. I found the details on this in a matter of minutes. Debunked isn’t even appropriate in this case, because there was nothing to the accusations. Literally nothing.

“She throws books at people and swears at them and orders them around like slaves.”

I have no idea what this refers to. During the Benghazi testimony, she faced hostile questioning for 11 hours on live television. She testified for eight hours and stayed cool, professional, and only referred to facts already in the public record. I saw it happen. In my opinion she has done a remarkable job of showing she has the temperament to do the job.

Posted by: phx8 at June 27, 2016 12:46 AM
Comment #405637

Rich, would a workers union organized along the lines of the EU be appreciated by its members if most of its decisions were made by non-elected bosses? In fact, bosses who were bough and paid for by; and obliged to, the company management!

How about a union in which no one was denied membership despite the lack of ability or training and those new members were causing wages to plummet and taxes on current members to increase.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 27, 2016 1:42 PM
Comment #405643

Royal,

The EU has a parliament comprised of members elected by EU citizens. The number of representatives from each country is set by treaty and takes into account the size of a country’s population with larger countries getting more representation. The “bosses” are not non-elected.

The issue of immigration and jobs is always a difficult issue. But, the BREXIT vote throws the baby out with the bathwater. It threatens to destroy decades of work integrating the various EU states into a cohesive economic entity. If the EU were conceptualized as a single country it would be the largest economy in the world as measured by GDP. That should not be messed with lightly. I might add that the EU is our largest trading partner. So, the BREXIT vote may have a very significant impact on our economy.

Immigration for highly industrialized countries is a two edged sword. They are needed to maintain productivity in countries with declining and aging populations. This is particularly true within the EU countries. On the other hand, there is not always a good match in skills, cultural values and numbers. It is not an easy process to control, particularly when there are international crises such as Syria.

The additional wild card is the transformation of the world’s economy from the industrial age to a technical and knowledge economy. This transformation creates great challenges not only for labor but also for the equitable distribution of wealth.

Globalization is not the cause of the angst fueling populist movements (BREXIT, Trump, Sanders). It is simply the inevitable result of advances in technical and knowledge capabilities (integrated supply chains) as well as the triumph of free market capitalism.

You can’t turn back time as Trump and the BREXIT supporters propose but you can do something about the resulting inequitable distribution of wealth as Sanders proposes, albeit in a highly simplistic manner. You can also recognize and address the problems of the displaced workers. Promising them their past is cruel and delusional. Coal miners are not going back to the mines.

Politicians need to get real about what is happening with the economy of the world. Instead of fighting it, we need to embrace it, adjust our educational, social and infrastructures to accommodate it and compete.


Posted by: Rich at June 27, 2016 6:18 PM
Comment #405645

Such a selective memory, phx8! I’m amazed!

I was refering to her “Bimbo Eruptions”.

Also, I don’t believe your spin on her work history.

Hillary fired for lies, unethical behavior from Congressional job: former boss

Hillary’s advocates could accuse Zeifman of conjuring up these stories in order to draw attention to himself in the middle of a presidential campaign. However, Calabrese reports that Zeifman kept diaries during this period, urged on by friends mindful of the historical nature of the Watergate investigation. No one would have known at the time that this 27-year-old barracuda would have any sort of national significance — which makes Zeifman’s testimony all the more compelling.

Take a look at the books written by her secret service. She was described like Cinderella’s evil step mother.

It’s sad, phx8. I truly believe that when you finally open your eyes it will be too late.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 27, 2016 6:22 PM
Comment #405646

WW,
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/zeifman.asp

Zeifman was never her boss in the first place. It is incredible how you keep falling for every conspiracy theory that comes down the road.

Seriously, use your head for a few seconds. Why did a Secret Service employee wait 20 years to write a book, and then, right at the height of a presidential campaign, he suddenly feels compelled to publish this? Why is it other people on her detail say this guy is full of it?

Posted by: phx8 at June 27, 2016 7:38 PM
Comment #405651

Rich, you made some good points on globalism re immigration and economy.

I agree that globalism has some good aspects. The living standard of millions has improved. That would have happened as a result of world trade over time.

To the onlooker there has been little effort to control globalism as to immigration or jobs outsourcing.

IMO, little has been done as corpocracy is super happy with the way things have gone and are going. Runaway immigration serves to lower wages. While the French/German corpocratists bemoan that the ME migrates wash up mostly on their borders they are very happy to take them in.

The folks there have been lied to re immigration just as the US corpocracy has lied to the folks here. There was never any intention to control the border. Recall the NAU proposed open borders and while the folks defeated NAU the principles of the policy has been implemented. Done by just ignoring immigration law and lying about it.

Corpocratists fully expect the folks here to just be quiet and wait out the time it takes for wages around the world to become ‘equal’. That is the true essence of a globalised society, everything must be equal so all will be content with their lot.

Well, a good number of folks here aren’t willing to play the long game. The rich get richer and most of the rest get the shaft.

I was really surprised that the Brits beat us to the punch on exiting globalism as they seemed to be the cheerleader for it.

I’m hopeful Trump will become president and take the bull by the horns. But, I just can see no way a president could terminate or renegotiate trade policies. He might be able to slow immigration for his term but I don’t see him being able to gain control of the borders.

Will take a 3rd party with a platform to level the playing field on trade and get control of immigration.

It just seems incredible that these corpocratists are willing to allow illegal and unvetted entry into the country to rape, burn and pillage at will. More incredible that the folks are willing to tolerate it.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at June 27, 2016 10:31 PM
Comment #405661

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/hillary-bill-clinton-secret-service-224578

The Secret Service employee was a uniformed member for the White House. He was not on the presidential detail. There is no way he could have seen the things he claimed. Veteran officers have denounced this guy.

Posted by: phx8 at June 28, 2016 2:22 PM
Comment #405664

The sad thing is that if it was a Republican you would have believed every word of it.

But since she’s a god/Democratic everyone is lying. Literally everyone.

I also heard Oregon’s ObamaCare website is working fine!

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 28, 2016 3:47 PM
Comment #405674

The Oregon web site did not work, but Obamacare in OR was very successful. I signed up myself over a phone number that was on the web site. It took about 10 minutes. That was very fortunate, because due to pre-existing conditions neither my wife nor I were eligible at the time. Obamacare really came through. We faced a potential cancer scare that year, and were very thankful we had insurance. Everything worked out for us.

I remember how shocked you were that it was actually easy to sign up for Obamacare. You were so invested in its failure, you couldn’t believe someone could obtain health care insurance with such ease.

Posted by: phx8 at June 28, 2016 7:52 PM
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