Third Party & Independents Archives

Orlando: Obama Has It Backwards

Sorry Jesse Byrnes. Obama arguing his version of semantics like a grouchy linguistics professor trying to browbeat an audience is not “scathing”. Scathing is the anger at the terrorist attack in Orlando. Islamic terrorism are words that convey the very real war that America and much of the community of Western nations find themselves engaged in with radical terrorist jihadist islamists. Whether they have the clarity and the conviction to both realize it and state it. Or not.

These are not misguided labels or provocative terms. They are words that describe the horrific acts of dedicated fanatics on many of our planet's continents. It is a war, and nations declare war under certain circumstances and for very pragmatic reasons - wars cost treasure and lives, and in democracies need legislative approval - and for symbolic reasons as well. Yes, this is not a typical war in any sense of the term. It is not fascism. It is not the Cold War, even if that analogy is better than neo-cons' mistaken attempt to use Germany and Japan as examples of possible nation-building in the Middle East.

But it is a war, and Orlando's club-goers are tragic victims in that war. And all the insane attempts at moral equivalency being made by prog's and militants, cannot cloud the view of the deliberate, vile cruelty of Islamic Radical Terrorism. And it's heinous acts.

And interestingly enough, Obama does acknowledge this in a backwards facing way. We can't say these words because that will anger Muslims everywhere and ISIL will obtain more recruits. That's the inescapable logic of his rhetorical refusal to engage those words in his speeches.

Soooo Mr. President. Those who accuse Christians of being - one and all - haters of gays, lesbians, and any member of the LGBT community, are thus only helping crazed Christian militias who are training to kill? Oh, sorry. They're praying in their churches and yes, there are angry words in the sermons sometimes. It's true. And when their LGBT sisters and cousins (that's not political that's literal) come to Thanksgiving dinner there may be awkward moments at the dinner table as they discuss say, transgender bathrooms.

Not. The. Same. A sometimes nasty debate in a robust republican democracy is exactly the sort of conversation that ISIL is trying to silence with violence, death, kidnapping, mutilation, and terror. No. Not. The. Same.

So when Obama warns against using words like Radical Islamic Terrorism, he means the Muslim community IS different. That's his point, though he'll never admit it. He's got it backwards.

Islam needs to roundly condemn all forms of it's radical violent behavior, the way such behavior in other religions - like Christianity, like Judaism - is roundly condemned. The mainstream muslim community has to raise the bar and be part of this ongoing struggle, yes it's a war, against violent, radical fanatics. They have not done so yet, with a few brave exceptions. It is time to denounce Sharia and the violence enacted in its name.

Posted by AllardK at June 14, 2016 8:43 PM
Comment #405331

Somebody has something backwards but it is not President Obama, AK. Encouraging people to rant about a religion that nearly encompasses 1.5 billion people is stupidity. The number of people of Islam holding radical ideas is minuscule. I don’t have any ability to support this claim but I am more concerned with the radical element of evangelicals and “christians” bent on destroying our country from within.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 15, 2016 4:56 PM
Comment #405334

That’s preposterous, Speak4all!
New Poll of Muslim Countries Finds Large Support for Terrorists

You and Warren Porter need to stop making stuff up. It’s making you look uninformed.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 15, 2016 7:20 PM
Comment #405337
A sometimes nasty debate

Negativity only gets you more negativity. Many people need to use more sources to get information, instead of relying on the same tired old baloney.

Posted by: ohrealy at June 15, 2016 8:04 PM
Comment #405344

To this day, despite repeated requests, the GOP has refused to grant the Obama administration an Authorization to use Military Force in Syria.

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2016 12:44 AM
Comment #405347

The link you provided speaks of a double digit support for terrorists in Turkey. Double digit support? What like 10 or 11%? I can find that kind of support here in America for any ridiculous idea or cause including your despicable support for anti-Islam behavior.

Muslim Americans are part of the fabric of our country and have been here long before your or Trump’s ancestors arrived here.

Please stop spouting your nonsense and educate yourself.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 9:40 AM
Comment #405351

I’ve been watching Muslims blow up stuff my entire life. Why hasn’t your “peaceful religion” stopped them? Don’t give me the bull about how Christians blow stuff up also.

Thomas Jefferson put his foot down and stopped the extortion payments to Muslims long before your ancestors came here. (I’ll claim as much knowledge of your family as you claim to know about mine)

Why were we paying Muslims extortion money, you won’t ask? Because they were at war with us! They kidnapped our sailors and confiscated our goods. They would not allow our ships in the Med.

It is you who should educate yourself, Speak4all. Quit with the Holier than thou attitude.

phx8, maybe it has something to do with Obama abandoning Iraq. Maybe they don’t trust your god with the responsibility of waging a successful war. Maybe he hasn’t got out of Afghanistan yet, like he promised he would to get elected. Maybe he’s a liar!

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 10:25 AM
Comment #405353

It is not my “peaceful religion”. I do not belong to any religious organizations.

Your woefully inept depiction of the US reaction to the North African Barbary Coast was accomplished to stop the pirating of our ships. They did not represent the religion of Islam and were only interested in their own self aggrandizement, not unlike Donald Trump and you for that matter.

So you would contend that your ancestors immigration predated 1776? I know mine did not. Sure, that is about as believable as the nonsense you spout about the knowledge of Islam that you and Mr. Trump espouse. Not believable at all and laughable if it didn’t have such serious consequences.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 10:39 AM
Comment #405356

Your obfuscation and denial about the issue is what causes these serious consequences.

Berbers were indigenous to the area and conquered by the Ottoman empire. That’s Muslim for all the people in denial. Their religion is predominantly Islam.

Show me a Muslim who doesn’t represent the religion of Islam.

How long would those Muslims in 18th century America be allowed to stay if they cut off people’s heads in the town square, or murdered their wife for disrespecting them? Or tried to have more than one wife, for that matter?

Pull your fingers out of your ears, Speak4all.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 11:43 AM
Comment #405357

Pull your head out of Donald Trump’s whatever. I have no obfuscation and denial other than commenting on your insufficient and illogical contentions regarding Islam.

Using your analogy of Muslims and Islam, perhaps you should espouse the same about members Catholicism and Christianity since Timothy McVeigh was raised Catholic and considered himself Christian.

You and Donald Trump are completely out of your depth of knowledge regarding this contention and need to attempt to understand what you are doing rather than using misinformation and lies to support your nonsense.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 12:00 PM
Comment #405359

Trump has it all wrong and will fail miserably.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 12:23 PM
Comment #405360

I knew you’d get around to blaming Christians. You’ve really got a hard-on for Donald Trump, too.

It just boggles my mind how someone can expect a 30 year politician to correct what ails this country, or do you support Hillbilly for the purely superficial reason of her having a vagina?

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 12:26 PM
Comment #405361

I have yet to meet a person who supports Hillbilly. Polls be damned, my own personal poll shows Trump over Hillbilly almost unanimously.

I say almost because many don’t pay attention and won’t vote at all.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 12:34 PM
Comment #405371

Your own “personal polls” obviously come from the same place as your interpretation of the Islamic religion and has the same similarly flawed results.

Blaming Christians? Not I, I merely suggested that you use the same flawed logic regarding members of the Islamic religion and the blame they should assume and apply that to the religion associated with Timothy McVeigh.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 2:14 PM
Comment #405376

You are interjecting and attaching a religious aspect onto Timothy McVeigh without merit. You, sir, do not know what you are talking about. I don’t know why you’ve deluded yourself into thinking he bombed that building for reasons of religion. Timothy McVeigh considered the federal building a military target and that is all.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 3:01 PM
Comment #405382

I thought the Oklahoma City bombing was partly motivated by McVeigh’s feelings regarding the treatment of the Branch Davidians (a radical Christian sect) at Waco? It seems absurd to dismiss the religious aspect here.

Posted by: Warren Porter at June 16, 2016 3:15 PM
Comment #405384

I am not the one interjecting and attaching religious aspects to this thread. You did however and my suggestion was that you should apply that interjection and attachment in an even manner.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 3:55 PM
Comment #405387

He specifically said it was a military response to the government agencies using military weapons, tactics, and armor against civilians including those in Waco.

It’s you who are trying to bring the religious aspect into the discussion.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 4:23 PM
Comment #405388

OK so you do not hold members of the Islamic faith in anyway responsible for the actions of terrorists just as you do not hold members of Timothy McVeigh’s professed religion (Christians) responsible for his actions. This is good. I applaud your ability to do this and wish there more Trump supporters who understood that. Thanks.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2016 5:13 PM
Comment #405393

You have a funny way of admitting you’re wrong.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 16, 2016 7:32 PM
Comment #405408
He specifically said it was a military response to the government agencies using military weapons, tactics, and armor against civilians including those in Waco.

Haven’t Islamist terrorists around the world been complaining about the same thing in their own homelands? They claim to be upset about the use of military weapons, tactics and armor against civilians throughout the Middle East and elsewhere.

Posted by: Warren Porter at June 17, 2016 9:24 AM
Comment #405421

No admission of being wrong from me. Perhaps some elation that you have accepted a liberal idea that not all people of any religion should be held accountable for the actions of a few loonies. You seemed to present a different point of view at the start of this thread. Glad to have helped you gain a different perspective.

Now if we can just get to you to support Hillary Clinton. I have feeling that you have some affinity for her private parts, while this is an unhealthy way for you to express any admiration, there still may be hope for you.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2016 2:25 PM
Comment #405436

The President’s whole point IS that on our end, it confers no advantage to call it radical Islamic terrorism. The President calls them terrorists, says their acts are vile, that they pervert the faith.

But he won’t dignify them as truly Islamic.

As for Iraq? Jesus Christ. Yeah, we stay there forever, spend trillions more, and to do what? To prop up the regime. A regime that was sick of us, with people who were sick of us. Abandon Iraq. No, what we did was hand responsibility for Iraq back to the Iraqis, who, having grown dependent on us, couldn’t handle the job. Now what are we doing? We’re standing back, teaching them how to stand up for themselves, and letting them teach themselves that as well. We’re letting their forces take ownership, keeping our own provocative asses off the battlefield.

They want, in both cases for America to make itself the visible, glorifying enemy of Islam. They want people to think that the point of ISIS is to beat back the west, to restart the whole brilliant era of the caliphate.

We’re denying them that. We want people to see them as they are: barbaric thugs who are riding on the coattails of anti-Americanism and anti-western sentiment to cover for the fact that the best they can do is bring corrupt squalor and chaos.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 17, 2016 10:23 PM
Comment #405576

You can spin it however you want, but the fact remains. Obama created ISIS and gave them the arms they’re using now. He pulled out leaving a vacuum, giving them the advantage. He again proved the U.S. can’t be counted on.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 25, 2016 9:56 AM
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