Third Party & Independents Archives

Come on Governor McAuliffe Double Down!

Don’t misunderstand or underestimate Terry McAuliffe, the very forgiving governor of Virginia. Allowing hundreds of thousands of convicted felons to vote and doing it in one big blanket amnesty-like executive action, is merely fighting the good fight to defend the First Amendment.

After all, Republicans have insidiously tried to tamp down voter rights by actually demanding people have photo IDs that prove they are who they say they are before they undertake their vital right to vote. And this is just one more executive action by a progressive visionary, an action whose unspoken consequences of turning the Commonwealth of Virginia's electorate a shade more blue is merely collateral gain. And not intended specifically.

So McAuliffe waving the executive order on the steps of the State Capitol in Richmond surrounded by his cheering supporters is a glorious moment of inclusion and a reparation of sorts. Right? That it may help Hillary gain a few electoral votes in the state is so beneath the consideration of someone like Terry McAuliffe that to even mention it is shameful. Right?

But why stop there? How dare McAuliffe merely wave his executive wand over convicted criminals. There are by most estimates, at least 200,000 illegals in Virginia. Maybe closer to 300,000. And slightly less than 200,000 of them are working. Illegally. Why are they being denied the right to vote?

Their voices - mostly latino - must be heard. En español if needs be. Because asking them to communicate clearly in English is oppressive. Right? Come on Terry, Hillary's counting - literally - on you. Double down in Richmond and bring los undocumentados on board. Ahora!

Governor McAuliffe would be at the cutting edge of law, along with President Obama. Governing by executive order after carefully sifting through Virginia's or the United States' constitution with the best minds available - as long as they're progressives - to help them see what they can get away with.

Because you don't want to be like Virginia Republicans who are carefully considering whether blanket usage of voting rights restorations are "a rewrite of the law rather than a contemplated use of the executive clemency powers," to quote legal advice given to former Democrat Governor Timothy Kaine.

Of course, the debate on what amount of restrictions on the voting rights of felons is just, rages on across America. Only Maine and Vermont have no restrictions at all. And it is only a matter of time before another governor tries to lift all restrictions on voting for felons or illegals or anyone else. Voting is a right. It should be unconditionally universal! Shouldn't 14 year olds have the right? Shouldn't concerned Syrians be able to mail in their votes for State AG in Virginia? This is just getting started.

Posted by AllardK at April 29, 2016 5:39 PM
Comments
Comment #404400

In addition, when doing business with an online payday loan company, customers should also look for an in-house Customer Service Department line. This service can act as a life-line for customers who become confused about any aspect of the process or who may have general questions.

Posted by: check cashing at April 30, 2016 2:24 PM
Comment #404405

As long as those immigrants aren’t US citizens, they don’t have the right to vote. Neither McAuliffe nor any other mainstream Democrat have argued otherwise. Conversely, these ex-felons are American citizens. Having already served their punishments, they should be treated no differently than you and I when it comes to voting. At least, that is the policy in Massachusetts. What works there ought to work in Virginia too.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 30, 2016 7:52 PM
Comment #404412

Democratics can take their groupthink to a whole new level by giving an individual, …(wait a minute, there are no individuals where Democratics are concerned), … a subject in each group the right to vote.

If their motivation is to gain votes and also to protect and foster groupthink, then each subject in a Democratic approved group should get a vote for each group they are subjected to, right?

For instance, an old, black woman gets a vote for being old, and a vote for being black, and a vote for being a woman! They’re doing it now, why not make it legal?

That’s three votes instead of one, McAuliffe! Where’s that progressive thinking? Why didn’t you think that? A bonus would be the ability to call someone a racist, an ageist, and a sexist all in one go! Obama could get a vote for being black and a vote for being white, except old white guys aren’t in a group, are they? They’re just whipping boys.

Hmph! C’mon McAuliffe! Be progressive! If you’re going to break the mold, SMASH it to pieces!

Democratics aren’t as smart as they think they are, are they?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 1, 2016 10:10 AM
Comment #404413

WW,

When has any prominent Democrat advocated for anything other than “one man one vote”?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 10:59 AM
Comment #404414

They really don’t have to now do they, Warren Porter? I don’t hear them criticizing the arrogant people who get up in front of the camera and the world to say they voted three, four, SIX times for Democratics.

No, they just take the votes and say, “Nothing to see here, folks! Move along. Vote fraud is a fiction!”

Anyone who supports voting without ID is supporting those who get away with voting more than once.

As far as felons voting, I’m actually in favor of them being re-enfranchised and allowed to vote again. I’d make exceptions, of course, but someone who has done their time and served their sentence should be able to participate. I would not support someone who committed murder to be allowed to vote. Nor would I support anyone who abused the public trust while in office to vote. But a blanket amnesty such as the one McAuliffe made, without approval of the legislature, is a vote grab and belays any forward thinking toward the consequences of his actions.

That’s typical of Democratics though, isn’t it?


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 1, 2016 11:33 AM
Comment #404417
I don’t hear them criticizing the arrogant people who get up in front of the camera and the world to say they voted three, four, SIX times for Democratics.

Maybe you’d hear it if you managed to remove your head from the sand.

Regarding Melowese Richardson:

Even Democrat leaders questioned the idea of applauding Richardson.

“I am very glad the county prosecutor and judge reconsidered and got her out of jail, but she is not a hero,” Hamilton County Democratic Party Chairman Tim Burke, who was at the rally, told the Enquirer. “What she did was criminal conduct and was particularly problematic because of her role as a poll worker.”

Hamilton County Democratic Party Executive Director Caleb Faux, who was also at the rally, saw it as an attempt to portray Richardson as a martyr because of the lengthy sentence.

“There is some validity that the sentence was too harsh,” Faux told the Enquirer. “But I don’t see how you can hold her up as an example of somebody to be proud of. What she did was reprehensible.”

Sounds like criticism to me.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 12:53 PM
Comment #404418

Wow where to begin on this one? Which false assumption do we focus on? The false assumption that all felons will vote democrat? The false insinuation that conservatives aren’t trying to suppress the vote? The fear mongering false assumption the illegal aliens who are felons will now be able to vote? The asinine assumption that Syrians should have a vote? The rocky road assumption on 14 year old kids voting because felons can vote?

Shouldn’t the question be why on earth would a free society take away the right of an individual to vote simply because the have committed a crime in the past? Let ye without sin… and all.

Weary would have us believe an individual who has been released from prison after killing someone should never be allowed to vote again. I of course disagree and would think that upon release from the correctional facility the right to vote should be the responsibility of the felon regardless of the crime committed. Weary has an ideology that doesn’t seem to take into consideration the individual as these blanket denials of certain groups of individuals are denied their rights.

Now I can understand conservatives fear when it comes to the more people who vote the less chance their candidate is chosen but shouldn’t that be motivation for conservative leadership to take a serious look at their extremism and consider a more palatable platform?

Anyone who supports voting without ID is supporting those who get away with voting more than once

Blatantly untrue Weary my friend. It seems you have fallen victim to propaganda from the voter suppression extremist of the far right. Weary I can only give you factual information but I can’t make you read it. However if you want to be informed based upon facts not fear I would suggest you read it and fight against the tyranny of the far right.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 1, 2016 1:03 PM
Comment #404419

How exactly does voting with an ID prevent someone from voting more than once anyhow? The only crime specifically targeted by these ID laws is voter impersonation fraud, which is extremely rare and almost certainly dwarfed by the mass of legitimate voters who cannot obtain adequate IDs.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 1:41 PM
Comment #404420

Legitimate voters can get adequate IDs.

It’s the illegitimate voter that can’t get adequate ID and Democratics don’t require IDs for people to vote.

What’s the logical conclusion?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 1, 2016 2:37 PM
Comment #404421
Legitimate voters can get adequate IDs.

No, they cannot without significant investments of both time and money. The 24th Amendment forbids any monetary barriers to voting, which means all photo ID laws on the books are tantamount to poll taxes.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 5:03 PM
Comment #404422

Warped, Please enlighten us on how a person can live without an ID? To get welfare or food stamps ID REQUIRED, bank account ID REQUIRED, to cash a check ID REQUIRED, to buy cigarettes or alcohol ID REQUIRED. Most states if not all will give a FREE picture ID to people all they have to do is get to the DMV in their town or city. BOO HOO BOO HOO they have to take as little time out of their pot smoking alcohol drinking day to get to the DMV. What you are trying to portray is ILLOGICAL BULLS**T.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 1, 2016 6:02 PM
Comment #404423
Legitimate voters can get adequate IDs.

It’s the illegitimate voter that can’t get adequate ID

Once again Weary this group statement is just plain wrong. Some legitimate voters cannot get adequate ID’s. What you don’t seem to understand is you have been manipulated. Conservatives movement leaders are against one man one vote, unfortunately they do not have the integrity to tell you this. Well they did but you guys didn’t listen. They hide behind these voter suppression laws as they attempt to cut the democrats total votes by 3% in any given election. It’s not about ensuring the vote is fair.

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/whats-behind-voter-fraud-witch-hunt

Posted by: j2t2 at May 1, 2016 6:20 PM
Comment #404425

“…dwarfed by the mass of legitimate voters who cannot obtain adequate IDs.”
Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 1:41 PM

Warren provided a link which is certainly inaccurate in Texas.

“How do you register?

Registering to vote is easy in Texas. It doesn’t even require a stamp! Official applications to register to vote are postage-paid by the State of Texas.

In most Texas counties, the County Tax Assessor-Collector is also the County Voter Registrar. In some counties, the County Clerk or County Elections Administrator registers voters. You may obtain an application from the County Voter Registrar’s office, the Secretary of State’s Office, libraries, many post offices, or high schools. From our website, you may request that we send you an official, postage-paid application. Or, you may download an informal application, but you will be required to affix a stamp before mailing. You may also register to vote when you apply for or renew your driver’s license.”

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/largepamp.shtml

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 1, 2016 7:34 PM
Comment #404427

Royal who you kidding Texas passed a restrictive photo ID law in 2014. They also restricted voter drives in 2011.These laws were put in place by conservatives in Texas to combat nonexistent problems.

So far 22 states have jumped on the voter suppression bandwagon since 2004. All but 3 were put in place by repub controlled legislatures and signed into law by repub governors.

https://www.brennancenter.org/voting-restrictions-first-time-2016

Posted by: j2t2 at May 1, 2016 11:07 PM
Comment #404431

KAP,

Some people don’t receive welfare, don’t cash checks, don’t open bank accounts, don’t buy tobacco or alcohol and thus have no other use for an ID card. I am not going to comment on the wisdom of the lifestyle. I am only acknowledging its existence.

they have to take as little time out of their pot smoking alcohol drinking day to get to the DMV

I am pretty sure most drug addicts have adequate IDs. The fact that you are jumping to these sorts of conclusions betrays your prejudice. A much more likely scenario: the person works 40+ hours a week at a minimum wage job and doesn’t own a car. Visiting the ID issuing office would require taking a day off from work, which would be financially devastating.

RF,

You posted instructions for registering to vote in TX. This is not the same as instructions for obtaining adequate photo identification to vote. If photo IDs could be obtained through the mail for free, then I would not object to these sorts of laws on Constitutional ground (they would still be an unwise use of taxpayer money).

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 2, 2016 8:45 AM
Comment #404434

I have an idea lets visit the conservative utopia of Kansas and let6s find out how many thousands of illegal immigrants or anyone else for that matter has been caught under the Orwellian “Secure and fair elections” act Kansas passed in 2011.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/kobach-voter-fraud-allegations-exposed-fraudulent

Why Kansas, several reasons, first it has a conservative/repub super majority and the extremist far right Governor Brownback running things.

Secondly these uberconservatives have been around awhile and have passed a law to allow the Secretary of State to prosecute the many thousands of voter fraud cases because the local official they referred the cases to in the past actually investigated them and found them to not be voter fraud.

Third they passed oppressive voter fraud law in 2011 and they have had elections since then. The laws were passed in part because the SoS told us many illegal aliens were voting in Kansas.

So whats happened this year?

http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article38915277.html

not one illegal immigrant, nothing so far on anything the restrictive law would have prevented! But wait….but wait there is more….

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2016 12:00 PM
Comment #404435

Yes folks there is more… Perhaps it is actual voter fraud but we can’t see the records and the defender of Kansas voting rights SoS Kobach reuses to actually do his job when it comes to voter fraud.

http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article27951310.html

Oh I know, what a surprise right! Not really because the intent for conservatives in utopia isn’t one man one vote, it isn’t stopping voter fraud. It is stopping others from voting.

I understand we can hit our conservative friends here on WB between the eyes with facts and more facts but we can’t make they think. So conservatives on WB what does it take for you guys to realize you are being duped by conservative movement leaders?

To those staunch defenders of liberty and justice for all what does it take to convince you?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2016 12:12 PM
Comment #404436

Warped, Again how does that minimum wage earner cash his/her check without ID? Also how did that minimum wage earner get that job without ID seeing how employers require ID? Just face it Warped an ID is required for even the smallest things in life. They are easy to get and most DMVs are open on Saturdays, at least where I’m from.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 2, 2016 12:29 PM
Comment #404437

There are plenty of shady businesses that will cash checks for people without IDs.

Other people get paid in cash because they don’t have an ID.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 2, 2016 12:41 PM
Comment #404438

Also, there are plenty of forms of identification that are good for getting a job, but not good for voting in many states. These are things such as a Social Security card, School ID card, etc…

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 2, 2016 12:45 PM
Comment #404439

j2t2 writes: “Royal who you kidding Texas passed a restrictive photo ID law in 2014.”


“Texas voters must show a photo ID to vote in elections in Texas, unless you are exempt (see “Exemptions” below).

If you do not have any of the following acceptable forms of ID, beginning June 26, 2013, you may apply for an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) at no charge.”

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/electionID.htm

My lib/soc friends care not for keeping elections fair and honest. Texas makes it very easy to obtain both a voter registration card and photo ID. Both are free.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 12:50 PM
Comment #404440

Warped, And those shady business’ require a fee that will stager the minimum wage earner. Just face it Warped getting an State ID is easy and less costly then having to go to some shady business to get a check cashed, in most all States getting a photo ID is free. Your examples are juvenile excuses at best.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 2, 2016 12:58 PM
Comment #404441

Oh brother, Really KAP your argument is “getting an ID is easy so why not require one to vote”! Or “you need it for other stuff so why not to vote?

This red herring is a waste of time IMHO. You conservatives who like the big government red tape and the big bureaucracy probably think it is a good idea but remember the reason is to stop people from voting, just 3% enough to sway the election in many cases. Because the fact is the impersonation fraud the ID would be useful for just doesn’t happen.

When are you guys gonna prove the droves of illegal aliens voting that is used to support this voter suppression tactic?

When are you guys gonna realize the ID requirement is but one aspect of the suppression laws? Are you really foolish enough to believe that justifying one bit of the laws justifies the entirety of the law?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2016 12:59 PM
Comment #404442

j2t2; “Because the fact is the impersonation fraud the ID would be useful for just doesn’t happen.”

Have you ever stopped to wonder why? Obviously ID requirements prevent fraud. Your own statement confirms this.

We just love it when the lib/soc argue against themselves.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 1:08 PM
Comment #404443

My lib/soc friends are really brain challenged. They argue there is minuscule voter fraud now with many states requiring voter ID at the polls.

Their argument is simple; end the need for voter ID and then wait and see if there is an increase in voter fraud. If so, then…and only then…will they consider some way to stop it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 1:17 PM
Comment #404444

J2, It is easy to get an ID, and I’ll bet you even have one.
and I’ll bet Warped has one to.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 2, 2016 1:19 PM
Comment #404445

“In 2005, American University’s Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, wrote:

The electoral system cannot inspire public confidence if no safeguards exist to deter or detect fraud or to confirm the identity of voters. Photo IDs currently are needed to board a plane, enter federal buildings, and cash a check. Voting is equally important.
— The Commission on Federal Election Reform[54]

The Commission concluded that, although proven voter impersonation is minimal, a photo ID requirement will ensure election integrity and safeguard public perception of the nation’s voting system at little cost to anyone.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 1:28 PM
Comment #404446

“Although championed primarily by Republicans, support for voter ID laws cuts across party lines. A 2012 poll by the Pew Center asked “Should voters be required to show official photo ID before voting on election day?” 77% of all respondents answered ‘yes’, including 95% of Republicans, 83% of independent voters, and 61% of Democrats.[80] A 2012 Fox News poll produced similar results, revealing that 87% of Republicans, 74% of independent voters, and 52% of Democrats supported new voter ID laws.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 1:34 PM
Comment #404447
Have you ever stopped to wonder why? Obviously ID requirements prevent fraud. Your own statement confirms this.

We just love it when the lib/soc argue against themselves.

So Royal this is it the best you can do! First this isn’t what was said. I think you know this and wish to deflect instead of addressing the issue. Second the laws in the example above did not take effect until late 2015. So what we can really see is the laws have no effect on the nonexistent voter fraud conservatives claimed as the reason for the suppression laws they have enacted.

SO now that you have tried this foolishness show us the thousands of illegals that voted.

J2, It is easy to get an ID, and I’ll bet you even have one. and I’ll bet Warped has one to.

SO what KAP I also have a old truck that I drive and I vote by mail so I don’t show an ID to vote by mail. But does that mean, using this “logic” of yours, that everybody should drive and vote by mail? Your red herring is starting to smell.

Look you guys it is about voter suppression, your movement leaders told you this. Why would you go to such extremes in defending the laws that make it tougher to vote with such nonsense as you are showing in this thread? Why not simply admit the truth? You have a majority in most state houses and most of the governors and can pass the laws at will. Why not man up and say we just don’t want those colored people to vote. Tell us the truth, you are against one man one vote and want to change it. Say it loud, we want Just Us not justice.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2016 1:38 PM
Comment #404448

j2t2, your arguments fly in the face of reality. According to the reports found in the Wikipedia links I posted the majority of American voters desire voter integrity.

You and your lib/soc friends are in a minority on this issue. Your claims of voter suppression have been discounted and discarded by most brain functioning folks with no political axe to grind.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 1:51 PM
Comment #404449

J2, What is starting to smell is the BULLS**T you and your lib friends are pushing. I vote by mail to but that doesn’t mean I don’t need my ID. Voter suppression is a juvenile excuse, and an ignorant one at that. NOBODY is preventing anyone from voting and when the ID is FREE, the POLL TAX excuse is even more ignorant. If you can get an ID,j2, John or Jane Doe can get one to.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 2, 2016 2:03 PM
Comment #404450

your arguments fly in the face of reality.

Such an illogical argument Royal What has been reported by those that researched the issues fly in the face of reality because a poll shows Americans want voting integrity! The restrictive laws do nothing but make it harder to vote they don’t insure integrity Royal. You are grabbing for straws my friend.

According to the reports found in the Wikipedia links I posted the majority of American voters desire voter integrity.M

Then why doesn’t the SoS of Kansas go after the computer glitches noted in the links above? Perhaps because his real reason is to suppress the vote.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2016 2:23 PM
Comment #404451

Good news for employed Americans? The Lib/Soc must be partying.

“According to the official summary of the law, Section 901 of the “Bipartisan Budget Act,” which Congress passed on Oct. 30 and Obama signed Nov. 2, provided that the “public debt limit is suspended through March 15, 2017.”

The $1,033,226,058,842.03 increase in the debt in the six months since then equals approximately $6,828 for each of the 151,320,000 persons whom the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated had a full or part-time job in the United States as of this March.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/6-months-budget-deal-debt-more-1-trillion

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 2:38 PM
Comment #404452

While working Americans can thank obama for an extra $6828 in debt…

Obama budgets $17,613 for every new illegal minor, more than Social Security retirees get.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-budgets-17613-for-every-new-illegal-minor-more-than-social-security-retirees-get/article/2590078

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 2:44 PM
Comment #404453

More good news for my Lib/Soc friends…


Obamacare’s November surprise

Many consumers will see large rate increases for the first time Nov. 1 — a week before they go to the polls.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/obamacare-rate-hikes-a-looming-political-headache-for-democrats-222663#ixzz47WiNwuq8
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 3:02 PM
Comment #404454

Will the good news never stop.

Obama is on pace to become the first U.S. president in history to have never presided over a full year of growth averaging at least 3 percent.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 3:24 PM
Comment #404455

Ah, yes…more brain dead Lib/Soc thinking

Minimum wage causing major loss

California recently became the first state to enact a $15 minimum wage…

In December, The Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco released a paper examining the current research on the impact of minimum wage increases. It stressed that the “most important” policy consideration was whether there would be “fewer jobs for the least skilled workers” because “they are the ones the minimum wage is intended to help.” It found that the “most credible” research showed minimum wage increases resulting in “job losses” for these workers and “with possibly larger adverse effects than earlier research suggested.”

In January of this year, Gov. Jerry Brown agreed, stating that raising “the minimum wage too much” would put “a lot of poor people out of work.” His conclusion: “There won’t be a lot of jobs.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 3:54 PM
Comment #404456

Opps, left out the link to my quote immediately above.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/minimum-714190-wage-increase.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 2, 2016 3:55 PM
Comment #404457

“Obama is on pace to become the first U.S. president in history to have never presided over a full year of growth averaging at least 3 percent.”

And yet, he has already presided over one of the longest periods of growth without a recession in American history. His administration has already set the record for consecutive months of job growth in the private sector, 73 months. We have seen one of the longest, strongest bull markets for stocks in American history, set against a backdrop of low interest rates and low inflation.

Put on your thinking cap, RF. Which is better: boom and bust, or slow sustainable growth? Why do you think the Chairman of the Fed targets a growth rate of 2 - 3%, instead of 4 or even 5? The George W Bush administration saw a short period of strong growth. How did that work out?

The key word here is ‘sustainable.’ While the other governments of major industrialized countries are dropping their interest rates, the US is alone in raising its interest rates. The dollar is strong, which makes it tough for us to export, and that slows growth. But when it comes to the economy, we’re shouldering the world on our shoulders.

Posted by: phx8 at May 2, 2016 10:26 PM
Comment #404458
Warped, And those shady business’ require a fee that will stager the minimum wage earner

Yes, those “All Check$ Ca$hed” outfits are a ripoff. Yet, they somehow stay in business. Probably because anyone who spends a lifetime working minimum wage jobs is probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Just face it Warped getting an State ID is easy and less costly then having to go to some shady business to get a check cashed, in most all States getting a photo ID is free. Your examples are juvenile excuses at best.

To the contrary, these shady businesses have an entire business model built around ripping off the poor. Unlike the RMV, they have a plethora of locations in low income neighborhoods and conveniently accessible by public transportation. Likewise, they are open in the evenings and on the weekends in order to service people who work all day.

In any case, this is all a distraction. Voting is an unalienable right, cashing a check is not. It’s possible to live an entire life without cashing a check, but deciding the live that lifestyle shouldn’t come at the cost of one’s right of suffrage.

Their argument is simple; end the need for voter ID and then wait and see if there is an increase in voter fraud. If so, then…and only then…will they consider some way to stop it.
I think it has more to do with the fact that dozens of states get by perfectly fine without voter ID and they do not experience the fraud prophesied by the Right.

Using the government’s cudgel to limiting a fundamental right is serious businesses and should never be done for trivial reasons. There is a high burden of proof needed to demonstrate a compelling state interest before it can be curtailed. Only in the case of rampant voter impersonation fraud would this sort of legislation make sense.

Even in the best light, when one ignores all the constitutional issues and all the unjustified discrimination, these laws amount to nothing more than “feel good” legislation. Conservatives like to blame their electoral failures upon myths such as illegal voting by non-citizen aliens. While I certain a handful of such cases exist, the conservative press treats them in entirely hyperbolic terms. The result is a lot of angst in people who feel that elections are being manipulated when in fact they are not.

J2, It is easy to get an ID, and I’ll bet you even have one. and I’ll bet Warped has one to.
I originally acquired a passport when I was just a child. Obviously, my affluent upbringing afforded me many privileges that are unavailable to most Americans.
My lib/soc friends care not for keeping elections fair and honest. Texas makes it very easy to obtain both a voter registration card and photo ID. Both are free.
The monetary cost for obtaining is $22, which is a bit more than free. Married women who don’t use their maiden name (and anyone else who has changed his or her name) are charged extra fees when obtaining an Election Identification Certificate (EIC). This stems from the fact that it is impossible for a natural born US citizen to get an EIC without a birth certificate or passport. Posted by: Warren Porter at May 3, 2016 12:45 AM
Comment #404463
Obama is on pace to become the first U.S. president in history to have never presided over a full year of growth averaging at least 3 percent

Look over there, no over here, no anywhere but at Royal’s foolish arguments on voter suppression laws!

Seriously Royal? So let me ask you this what part did the austerity programs forced upon us by conservatives, you know when conservatives forced us off the fiscal cliff and then sequestration the following year play in keeping economic growth low? I am proud of you for admitting the intentional failures of Congress as they chose ideology over country.

But hey you have led us down this path so lets continue with Obama. What part does Obama play in the whole voter suppression law thing? What we know is since the 2010 elections conservatives took over Congress as well as increasing their control of many state legislatures. Since that time 22 states have jumped on the voter restriction bandwagon. SO in 2008 we have the black guy getting elected with a large minority turnout at the polls and then we have conservatives waving the voter fraud banner despite no voter fraud. Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 3, 2016 9:00 AM
Comment #404464
Only in the case of rampant voter impersonation fraud would this sort of legislation make sense.

I’d say instances such as Bernie Maddoff’s ponzi scheme are not “rampant”. Using your logic why should we have laws against ponzi schemes?

Murder is not as “rampant” in rural areas as it is in Chicago. Why should rural areas have laws against Murder? Using your logic, laws against murder in rural areas is just “feel good legislation”.

Why is your party in favor of passing laws against any and everything, Warren Porter, except voter ID? Why is that? Government dictates how tall your grass can be in your yard! Why is the line drawn at proving who you are in the voting booth?

How do you qualify your statement that voter fraud is minuscule when you have no way of proving it either way?

The position against voter ID laws is illogical and can only be interpreted as to protect the fraud and abuse.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 3, 2016 9:13 AM
Comment #404465

Oh Brother here we go, Weary are you one of those big government conservatives that think another law is the answer to the problem? I mean the dems have long protected the right to vote from conservative attempts to take away the right for those that aren’t the same color or do not have the same economic status as themselves. Using this silly logical flaw you describe in your comment to paint the dems as protecting fraud is silly as you cannot prove fraud nor can anyone despite the claims you guys continue to raise. Trying to prove nonexistent fraud is…well… classic IMHO.

This claim of illegals voting stems from the black guy getting elected to office. I know conservatives long wanted to restrict the vote according to conservative leaders. But it gained in priority once minorities came out in droves to help elect Obama to office.

I gotta give you guys credit though passing laws that don’t stop election fraud that actually happens, but helps to stop minorities and disenfranchised people from voting while convincing people it is needed is classic. I know , I know it isn’t fascism when you do it, right?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 3, 2016 9:45 AM
Comment #404467

Warped, all those check cashing places are conveniently located and accessible through public transportation, SO ARE THE DMV’s. “A person can go through their entire life without cashing a check” That may be true but how do they live? Someone either has to take care of them or they are pan handlers. Warped, admit it, getting an ID is easy anyone can get one unless they are lazy or are handicapped, and if they are handicapped that bad they have a caretaker.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 3, 2016 10:51 AM
Comment #404471

WW,

Permitting a citizen to vote without an ID is not tantamount to permitting voter impersonation fraud. Of course, I want the rare occurrences of fraud to be illegal and for any perpetrators to be prosecuted accordingly.

KAP,

SO ARE THE DMV

WRONG! According to the Brennan Center: “Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.” This is only counting people who live in Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin. Who knows how many there are in the other 40 states.

Remember that the right to vote is enshrined in the Constitution. Even a single case of a legitimate voter living in a circumstance where it is onerous to obtain identification will invalidate the law.

Someone either has to take care of them or they are pan handlers.
Do pan handlers not have a right to vote? Do the disabled not have a right to vote? And you are still ignoring all the people who work, but are paid in cash as well as people who utilize check cashing services that do not require photo ID.

Everyone,
The victims of these voter ID laws are real.  Eddie Lee Holloway Jr. is a real legitimate voter who cannot comply with Wisconsin’s ID law without spending hundreds of dollars. And Eddie isn’t the only one, there are dozens of similar stories like his on the internet. One can only imagine the thousands of people who aren’t lucky enough to be in contact with a major media organization that tells us of their plight.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 3, 2016 12:56 PM
Comment #404472

Warped, My daughter lives in a small town in W.V. she has access to a DMV. Everyone has the right to vote and the States have the right to keep those elections on the up and up by enacting ID laws. Eddie Lee Holloway cannot comply without spending hundreds of dollars is pure BULLS**T. The only way that is possible is if he has DUI or other fines to pay for his stupidity. He still can get a Photo ID cheap a non driver ID. Keep it coming Warped your excuses are still JUVENILE at best. Those people who live more then 10 miles away must have friends or family who can take them to get an ID, so their excuses for not having ID are just that EXCUSES and bleeding heart lib/progressive such as yourself buy into their BULLS**T excuses.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 3, 2016 1:45 PM
Comment #404474

KAP,

My daughter lives in a small town in W.V. she has access to a DMV

And I live in a major metropolitan city with an RMV right around the corner. Who cares? Demonstrating that your daughter’s right to vote isn’t abridged says nothing about the thousands of other Americans out there.

Eddie Lee Holloway cannot comply without spending hundreds of dollars is pure BULLS**T. The only way that is possible is if he has DUI or other fines to pay for his stupidity. He still can get a Photo ID cheap a non driver ID.

Obviously, you did not bother to read the linked article that I shared. Reporting for The Nation, Ari Berman demonstrated the hurdles facing Mr. Holloway. And no, they do not have anything to do with DUIs or any other malfeasance on Holloway’s part.

Those people who live more then 10 miles away must have friends or family who can take them to get an ID
The right to vote should not be contingent on having friends or family being able to take time off from work in order to cart their disabled loved one to the RMV. Posted by: Warren Porter at May 3, 2016 2:09 PM
Comment #404475

Warped, No one said anything about taking time off from work most DMV’s are open until 5-6:00pm or Saturdays plenty enough time to take a family member or friend to get an ID. As far as Holloway, one person has a hard time because of a mistake. Keep coming with the excuses Warped.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 3, 2016 2:25 PM
Comment #404477

Warren Porter, Lee wasn’t denied the right to vote because didn’t have ID. He was denied the documents because the name on his documents didn’t match the name he was using. That’s a mistake made 58 years ago. He had 58 years to solve that problem and he didn’t. Nothing in that article says the Wisconsin law prohibited him from voting. It was his inaccurate paperwork which he, or his parents, should have corrected years ago.

Notice also he was able to get everywhere he wanted to go.

How are you able to prove fraud if no one needs to prove who they are? It’s like saying we must prove the pen can write without allowing anyone to put it to paper. Since it is your and j2t2’s opinion that fraud is rare and ID is not needed I can have the opinion of the opposite. Just as you cannot prove your position, neither should I be expected to prove mine.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 3, 2016 2:42 PM
Comment #404482

Illinois has a pretty simple solution for Mr. Holloway’s situation. Why can’t Wisconsin do the same thing Illinois does?

work most DMV’s are open until 5-6:00pm or Saturdays plenty enough time to take a family member or friend to get an ID.

Can we please cut the crap here? Not everyone’s life is the same as yours. The ease at which you experience things in your life does nothing to abrogate the difficulties and challenges others face. Like you, I have had the privilege of living in circumstances that would make it easy to obtain IDs to vote, but I am not foolish enough to believe everyone else has the luxury of my lifestyle.

Instead of coming up with lame excuses to prop up these flawed laws, why don’t we adopt the common sense policy that allowed Mr. Holloway to vote in Illinois for decades.

And it’s not just Lee Holloway. It’s also Leroy Switlick and Kari Venteris as well. And it’s not just Wisconsin. In Texas we have Jesus Garcia, Krystal Watson, Esmeralda Torres, Olester McGriff, and many others.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 3, 2016 7:10 PM
Comment #404484

Warped, Yes lets cut the crap, maybe someone lives in an area that the DMV may be 10-15 miles away but that is NOT considered a hardship unless the person is totally handicapped but that would be an extreme situation. There is always a way to get somewhere. I’m sure if those people that cannot get to the DMV but need groceries at the store next to the DMV will get a way to get them groceries now won’t they? Yes lets cut the crap Warped, it’s easy to get an ID at little or no cost. A person just has to get off their lazy A**.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 3, 2016 8:45 PM
Comment #404507
There is always a way to get somewhere.
Can we please stop making stupid assumptions like this one? You have no clue how other people live their lives, stop substituting your experiences or guesses for theirs. Just because it is easy for you and the people you know to get IDs does not mean the experience is universal. Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 5:58 PM
Comment #404508

Warped, How about your assumptions that people are so destitute that they can’t get ID. This is the 21st century Warped. So lets cut the crap with your BOO HOOING, people can get around even if it’s by bike or Horseback or God forbid WALKING or family or friend. You also don’t have a clue how others live their lives or what they want.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 4, 2016 6:09 PM
Comment #404511

These aren’t assumptions. I have shared news reports about such people time and time again.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 7:19 PM
Comment #404513

Sure Warped one about a guy who had 58 years to correct a problem but didn’t and others who had the same or similar problems. To me if you have a problem with either your Birth certificate and picture ID and don’t correct it, IT’S YOUR OWN FAULT. Keep trying Warped.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 4, 2016 9:26 PM
Comment #404516
58 years to correct a problem

Correcting the certificate costs $600, you can hardly fault a poor person for not paying that.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 10:41 PM
Comment #404517

Warped, It should have been corrected years ago. You are making excuses for his or his parents laziness. After 58 years I have no sympathy for him. Keep trying Warped maybe one day you will come up with a valid claim.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 4, 2016 10:50 PM
Comment #404518

This reminds me, many births before WWII were done at home and the midwife often never bothered to obtain a birth certificate.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 10:55 PM
Comment #404519

It’s not a matter of laziness. If one was living paycheck to paycheck, as so many Americans do, would it really make sense to spend $600 fixing an error on a birth certificate?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 10:58 PM
Comment #404520

Warped, You are making excuses. If it were fixed earlier it may have been a lot cheaper. Quit trying to make excuses. Like I said maybe some day you will have a valid argument but right now you are making excuses for something that should have been taken care of YEARS AGO! It’s Holloway’s fault no one else’s.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 4, 2016 11:17 PM
Comment #404521

Apart from inflation, why would it have been cheaper to fix earlier? As far as I know, states don’t charge different prices for Birth Certificates depending on the person’s age.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 11:36 PM
Comment #404522

Warped, Do you really think that 58 years ago it would have cost $600. to correct that Birth certificate? Warped, I take you for an intelligent person, please don’t prove me wrong about your intelligence.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 4, 2016 11:42 PM
Comment #404524

Corrected for inflation, the real cost should not have changed. I’ll be 58 in 2050 and I expect the price increase from now until then to be commensurate with inflation, but the real price should stay the same.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 5, 2016 8:42 AM
Comment #404526

Meanwhile in Kansas Kobach the SoS granted prosecutors powers to go after the masses of illegal aliens voting in Kansas has successfully prosecuted fraudster #4 another repub for voting in 2 states. So under the voter fraud category it is repubs 4 illegal aliens 0.

As the proof becomes clear KAP continues with the blame the victim charade forgetting the fact that the ID laws also come with other suppression tactics and does not solve the actual fraud problem.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2016/may/04/kobach-obtains-fourth-illegal-voting-conviction/

Posted by: j2t2 at May 5, 2016 9:32 AM
Comment #404527

Lee could have just went by the name on his birth certificate and had no problem at all.


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 5, 2016 9:50 AM
Comment #404530

Mr. Holloway’s Social Security card doesn’t say Eddie Junior Holloway.

The onus is on the state of Wisconsin to find a solution for Mr. Holloway that allows him to cast a ballot in person without having to spend any more money. Illinois and many other states already have a successful solution for Mr. Holloway’s problem, why is Wisconsin too stubborn to adopt it?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 5, 2016 11:07 AM
Comment #404534

Warped and j2, It is the responsibility of the person such as Holloway to keep his personnel info correct, NOT the State. If something on a Birth certificate is incorrect, or Drivers license or Photo ID the person needs to correct it as soon as possible. 58 years is ridiculous. It should have been corrected long ago. In the case of Wisconsin and Holloway, maybe Holloway should get a hold of his State rep. for help. Also going to the nearest SS office Holloway could have taken his Birth certificate and had his SS card changed to what name is on the Birth certificate FOR FREE. Then he could have his ID changed at the DMV far cheaper then $600.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 5, 2016 12:18 PM
Comment #404535
It is the responsibility of the person such as Holloway to keep his personnel info correct, NOT the State
Nope. Mr Holloway didn’t cause the error, why should he be responsible for it?

There are thousands of people like Mr. Holloway. They cannot all be personally assisted by their state representative. Why do you keep making dump excuses for these stupid laws that do nothing to target the most prevalent varieties of voter fraud while infringing on the rights of thousands? For decades, you went to the ballot box without showing an ID and there were never any problems. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it!

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 5, 2016 12:26 PM
Comment #404537

Warped, Granted Holloway didn’t cause the error but it is His responsibility to see that it is corrected. When I renew my drivers license they ask me to check it to make sure the info is correct. Why do you keep making excuse for stupid people who can’t seem to know when to correct mistakes? ID laws are NOT infringing on no one. In my city we had a woman who voted 5 times in the last election and to show how stupid she was she bragged about it. That is just one instance in one city. Could that be going on else where? It’s possible.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 5, 2016 1:06 PM
Comment #404538

KAP,

Don’t be absurd. You don’t check your birth certificate every time you renew your license.

Also, Melowese Richardson committed her crime with absentee ballots. This never would have happened in person.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 5, 2016 2:05 PM
Comment #404539

Warped, Never said you check your Birth certificate, I SAID DRIVERS LICENSE, they ask me to make sure the info is correct on my DRIVERS LICENSE. Should never have happen with an absentee ballot. Never happen in person????? Your loosing my respect for your intelligence.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 5, 2016 2:31 PM
Comment #404544

Only Mr. Holloway’s birth certificate had an error. As far as I know, his Illinois Driver’s license had the correct name on it.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 5, 2016 5:49 PM
Comment #405083

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