Third Party & Independents Archives

Trump Just Cancelled Rally in Chicago Due To Anarchy at The Rally

Check out CNN and see what anarchy liberals and the media have brought to our democracy.

Doubtful Trump can ever hold another rally w/o being overrun by these liberal hooligans.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by Roy Ellis at March 12, 2016 12:44 AM
Comments
Comment #403365

One big black eye on Emanuel.

Man, CNN is playing it to the hilt. Trump/republicans have
‘demonized’, demeaned’ ‘divided’, and otherwise S@it on the other side, whoever they may be, as media pundits are hyper vocalizing.

Sad times for liberals and their media.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 11, 2016 7:58 PM
Comment #403366

Well, time about is fair play. I do hope that at Hil’s next rally a large group of repubs shows up to get it on. I would really reallly love to see that.

But, alas, I know they won’t …

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 11, 2016 8:01 PM
Comment #403367

Roy,
While pretty much all presidential candidates experience hecklers in their audiences, no one reacts to them like Trump. It is Trump, and only Trump, that excites this kind of violence at political rallies.

He targets the press. At rallies he calls the media “liars” and “scum” and urges the crowd to focus their anger upon the reporters. Conservative Republicans have been saying this for the past seven years.

At rallies he has said he wished he could punch protestors in the face. He has said protestors should be taken out on a stretcher, but political correctness forbids that, and he wishes there was no political correctness to prevent it. When hecklers interrupt his rallies, security does not merely eject them. Unlike any other presidential candidates, Trump focuses the anger of the crowd upon them, repeatedly shouting “get them out.”

He started his campaign saying illegal Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists (and some good people), sent by Mexico. He tweeted faked racist statistics about how whites were being murdered by blacks. He advocated blocking all Muslims from entering the US, and people who practice Islam hate America.

Over 60% of his followers believe Obama is a Muslim and was not born in this country, and so not a legitimate president. To this day, Trump will not repudiate this. When Obama visited a mosque, Trump said that was because Obama ‘felt more comfortable there.’

Did you think all my comments about hatred and bigotry and xenophobia were just hyperbole? Just partisan exaggeration. What I said was absolutely, 100% correct, and we are seeing this play out right before out eyes. It isn’t new. Conservative Republicans have been working towards this moment for years. They have been appealiung to the dark side of the American character. Trump is the result.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2016 9:27 PM
Comment #403368

Well, if you are correct, ph, then I say bring it on. I really really hope the next Clinton rally gets busted up by xhenophobic repubs and so on - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 11, 2016 9:48 PM
Comment #403369

The liberal crowd free speech in the same sentence. What a sin.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 11, 2016 10:08 PM
Comment #403370

“In any campaign, responsibility starts at the top. Any candidate is responsible for the culture of the campaign. When you have a campaign that disrespects the voters, when you have a campaign that affirmatively encourages violence, when you have a campaign that is facing allegations of physical violence against members of the press, you create an environment that only encourages this sort of nasty discord.”
Ted Cruz

It is not just liberals. Cruz could arguably be just a political opportunist, but for once, I actually agree with him. Trump is responsible. He has encouraged violence and appealed to hatred and bigotry. He has encouraged hostility towards the press. Now, here we are.

Btw, there are protestors at Democratic and Republican events, but there is not the kind of charged atmosphere seen at Trump rallies. It is unique. People have been predicting this would lead to violence for some time. This is not surprising.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2016 10:15 PM
Comment #403371

Put any spin you want on there ph.

One has to be a nutball/liberal or a paid agitator to go to a political rally to protest, rep or dem or anyone else.

IMO this was planned in great detail by Emanual and his Chicago cronies. It does serve to turn the public attention away from Chicago being the murder capitol.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 11, 2016 10:33 PM
Comment #403373

Roy,
It is not spin. I quoted Cruz. I referred to numerous quotes from Trump because he has repeatedly incited violence, and I referred to statistics from polls about how the majority of Trump supporters believe Obama is a Muslim and not an American. According to live reports tonight from MSNBC, CNN, and FOX, the protestors were diverse- young, old, black, white, Asian, and Latino. They had nothing to do with the Chicago political machine. Several organizations participated, including MoveOn.org, Black Lives Matter, and most of all, the students of the University of Illinois, which is where the Trump rally was held.

I have no idea why you would say this protest was a diversion from the crime problem in Chicago. That makes no sense whatsoever. That amounts to making things up out of thin air.

Posted by: phx8 at March 12, 2016 12:02 AM
Comment #403375

People who promote an Article 5 convention should pay very close attention to these people. They would have no problem submitting amendments to create their “safe spaces” and silence decent.

I think it was Watter’s World who asked students at a popular university if the first amendment should be repealed. I think it was 45% said, “Yes”.

That’s a scary thought.

phx8, the people who outwardly bragged about causing this debacle in their effort to “shut Trump down completely” are people you support. You want this behavior to flourish. Why didn’t you speak up when Barney Sander’s speech was shut down by BLM?

I know why. It’s because this fits your motives. If these same people did this at Hillbilly’s rallies I doubt you would be blaming Hillbilly.

The left have been controlling the narrative with violence and threats for far too long. This is just another example of that. Trump has finally got the chance to bring it into the light by responded to it in front of the camera, but the left started it a long time ago.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 7:54 AM
Comment #403383


“One has to be a nutball/liberal or a paid agitator to go to a political rally to protest, rep or dem or anyone else.”

Excuse me?

The whole world is watching Roy!

Trump is a laughingstock. Every time he opens his mouth something stupid comes out

If Trump is such a great “leader” why is it that he can’t even control his own followers?

Perhaps it’s because he/they thrive on the disunity and the violence.

You don’t listen because you don’t want to hear it.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 8:53 AM
Comment #403396

WW,
There is a conflict between the free speech of politicians at an event versus the free speech of protestors, and the right of assembly for both supporters and opponents at a political rally. Generally speaking, I think it is rude for people to heckle at a rally, and they should fully expect to be escorted from the premises, and possibly arrested if they physically resist.

There was a controversial example of this conflict some years ago, when Neo-Nazis wanted to march through a Jewish neighborhood outside Chicago, a neighborhood that included many Holocaust survivors. The SCOTUS ruled the Neo-Nazis did, in fact, have the right to assemble, march, and display the swastika.

So protestors have the right to protest, and everyone is entitled to assemble and exercise free speech.

“The left have been controlling the narrative with violence and threats for far too long.”

Not at all. The situation with Trump is unique. He has openly pushed hatred, bigotry, and racism. Repeatedly. He has intentionally stoked the anger of his supporters and directed it at the media, protestors, and minorities. It is NOT the left controlling a narrative of violence and threats. Other Republican presidential candidates have seen the same thing and they have come out and condemned Trump. Both Cruz and Kasich have already done so.

We have seen a similar thing happen with the excessively physical handling of a reporter from Breitbart. Kurt Bardella used to be their spokesman. He resigned over this when Breitbart management- strong Trump supporters- refused to defend their own reporter. Bardella said: “There is this escalating pattern of behavior that’s only happening at Donald Trump events. It’s incredibly dangerous. His rhetoric is unmistakable and it is calculated and it is intentional.”

Americans- young, old, black, white, Latino, Asian, you name it- are going to stand up to Trump and his angry supporters. Rallies in large, diverse cities outside the South are going to meet a lot protestors. Today there is supposed to be a Trump rally in Cleveland. We will see what happens.

Posted by: phx8 at March 12, 2016 10:28 AM
Comment #403399


” The SCOTUS ruled the Neo-Nazis did, in fact, have the right to assemble, march, and display the swastika.”

And the “Neo-Nazis” were defended by none other than the ACLU.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 10:53 AM
Comment #403410

I love how the media can replay Trump’s words about swinging back, and then immediately following show a redneck in a cowboy hat sucker punching a black guy.

That is taking 2 completely separate and unrelated events and making them appear as if they happened together.

It’s a perfect example of how the media manipulates people who don’t think for themselves into believing what they want them to believe.

You do know that when Trump was talking about swinging back it was in response to a protester who started swinging first, don’t you?

Or are you conveniently trying to forget that part?

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 12:18 PM
Comment #403412
Beginning Wednesday, dozens of Tweets appeared, explicitly calling for Donald Trump’s assassination. Most of the tweets appear to be from accounts of black Americans.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/03/assassinate-trump-violent-threats-go-unchecked-on-twitter/


It’s rotting from the top, folks! Hillbilly is inciting this behavior by running against Donald Trump! She has the most support from Black Americans so she is to blame for these threats. She has to be!

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 12:40 PM
Comment #403413

“These protests comes at a fortunate time for Donald Trump. In the past several days, his campaign has faced scrutiny from the press over the behavior of some of his supporters at his campaign rallies. The Trump campaign has argued that his rallies have been beset by disrupting protests throughout the campaign.

In a matter of hours, a campaign talking point became a real visual image for millions of American voters. There is a growing anxiety in the country, beset by economic stagnation and increasing unrest in the world.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/11/ghost-of-1968-resurrected-in-chicago/

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 1:10 PM
Comment #403416
You do know that when Trump was talking about swinging back it was in response to a protester who started swinging first, don’t you

Do you have any proof? Trump has continuously egged on his supporters whenever they attack nonviolent people. I remember how last summer, two Trump supporters viciously attacked a homeless man simply because of the color of his skin.

While Trump condemned the use of violence, he still managed to commend the two brothers for their “passion”. I’m sorry, but that is beyond the pale. You don’t praise criminals for their “passion”. It is absolutely despicable that the condemnation was not absolute and instead of full of caveats.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 12, 2016 1:53 PM
Comment #403418


So Royal, did you even pass by the facts on your way to this opinion piece?

The author didn’t seem to take the time.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 2:38 PM
Comment #403419

Where’s your proof?

Court records show that the brothers have long terrorized people in the Boston area — neighbors, police, even their own mother — and have served time in jail for their crimes. On Thursday, that history is likely to come into play as a Dorchester District Court judge weighs whether to continue to hold the brothers in jail without bail. “I’m surprised he’s been getting back out,” said one of the victims in the 2005 attack, who asked not to be identified because he is concerned for his safety. “He came from behind. He just stabbed me.”

I had no idea Trump was running for president in 2005! That’s news to me, Warren Porter!!!

It sure is convienent a couple of hoods came up and gave the left an excuse to blame Trump.


Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 2:47 PM
Comment #403423

The brothers blamed Trump for their actions, not the Left. It’s no accident that Trump’s campaign has attracted the attention of terrorists such as these men.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 12, 2016 2:54 PM
Comment #403426

So a couple of thugs that have a history of violence, even toward their own mother is blaming Trump for their actions and you believe them? How gullible are you, Warren Porter?

Two thugs define an entire movement for you? Can I sell you a bridge or something?

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 3:33 PM
Comment #403427

These two thugs are using Trump as an excuse for their violence. They didn’t turn violent because of Trump’s campaign. That is your spin on it. Your party would just love to see Trump on stage with a tiny mustache and his arm extended, wouldn’t they? But, since that’s not possible they create that illusion to whip up protestors like the one’s planning and perpetrating the mayhem we witnessed this weekend.

Look at the news stories that portrays Trump as Hitler these past few days. Is it any wonder you’ve got ignorant children throwing temper tantrums like the one in Chicago?
Let’s also not forget the lies the BLM crowd has told to justify their violent behavior. Their “movement” has gotten police officers murdered and Hillbilly justifies them! When are you going to hold Hillbilly to the same standard you hold Trump to?


Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 3:42 PM
Comment #403428
These two thugs are using Trump as an excuse for their violence. They didn’t turn violent because of Trump’s campaign.

Trump has created an environment in which these two thugs thrive. That is all.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 12, 2016 5:05 PM
Comment #403430

That’s bunk. These people thrive in an environment where there are excuses made for their behavior by political hacks who want to score points for their party.

These thugs are being excused because people are being led to believe Trump is somehow controlling their mind with yoda-like telepathy. That’s just not the case.

You should face the real problem. Big, out of control government is the real problem, Warren Porter. You can’t ignore it and solve it at the same time.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 5:29 PM
Comment #403433

Recent polling from numerous sources indicate that Trump is drawing many Dems, women, blacks, and Hispanics to the polls to vote for him. How very interesting. No wonder Warren, j2t2, and phx8 all have fire and bullshit coming out of their mouths.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 5:49 PM
Comment #403435

I think Trump is going to put a lot of people in prison when he gets elected. He’s not a politician and he’s not going to protect them like cops or doctors are known to protect their own. He’s going to see what’s wrong and he’s not going to pull any punches. That has a lot of Democratics worried, correction, scared.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 6:15 PM
Comment #403436

“Recent polling from numerous sources indicate that Trump is drawing many Dems, women, blacks, and Hispanics to the polls to vote for him.”

P.T. Barnum was perhaps a little too optimistic.

America has been invaded by the planet Stupider, run for your sanity!

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 6:20 PM
Comment #403439
That’s bunk. These people thrive in an environment where there are excuses made for their behavior by political hacks who want to score points for their party.

Is this not what Trump has done? Describing these men as “passionate” rather than as thugs makes excuses for despicable behavior. I don’t think Trump actually endorses these things, but he feels compelled to refrain from unambiguous denouncements of violence because he wants to score political points among Republican plebeians. What a hack.

I think Trump is going to put a lot of people in prison when he gets elected.
Obviously. The guy has zero respect for rule of law and will freely use the jailhouse to suppress people who disagree with him. The Constitution be damned. Posted by: Warren Porter at March 12, 2016 6:47 PM
Comment #403440

Prove it, Warren Porter. What basis do you have to spew such slander? You’re really an unpleasant guy when you’re losing a debate.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 6:50 PM
Comment #403442

Willie, once again you are right on the money. The Dem/Soc writers on WB are very fearful that their days are numbered as a political force in this country.

It is interesting to read their railing against big corporations, big political pacs, big oil, big pharma, and big military.

Not a peep out of these clowns about big education, big welfare, big national debt, big social program debt and big illegal immigration.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 7:08 PM
Comment #403444

That’s because their patriotism ends in the voting booth.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 12, 2016 7:14 PM
Comment #403445

P.T. Barnum was perhaps a little too optimistic.

America has been invaded by the planet Stupider, run for your sanity!

Rocky

LOL…hey Rocky, bet you believed the polling indicating a big win for Hillary in Michigan too.

If a socialist/commie can take Michigan from the Party darling, Trump can win big there.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 7:19 PM
Comment #403446

Royal,

No one has ever lost money underestimating the collective intelligence of the American people. Trump wins because the American people are suckers, dupes.

Trump doesn’t love America. Trump loves Trump.

Trump isn’t a leader, he’s a salesman. He uses far too many adjectives and adverbs in his speech, and he doesn’t even bother to speak in complete sentences.
Trump wouldn’t know the Constitution if it bit him on the ass. Trump hasn’t actually done anything even remotely related to actual work in his entire life.

So please, tell us all again just how I, Trump, is going to relate to all these morons who plan to vote for this real estate salesman.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 7:46 PM
Comment #403447

Trump realizes that politics is more theater than substance. Give the audience what they want and believe. What they want is vengeance against those that they have been led to believe are destroying America, facts be damned. He promises to give them that vengeance. Is it surprising that the targets of that vengeance are reacting?

The tactics of Trump are frankly disgusting. The Republican Party belatedly understands this. Shortly, we may see this travesty play out in the general election. God help us all!

Posted by: Rich at March 12, 2016 7:55 PM
Comment #403448

“LOL…hey Rocky, bet you believed the polling indicating a big win for Hillary in Michigan too.”

And you believe I would vote for Hillary because…?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 7:58 PM
Comment #403449

Rocky writes; “No one has ever lost money underestimating the collective intelligence of the American people.”

Unlike Rocky, I believe the American people have done a remarkable job since our founding. We have come through some very trying times to become even better. It is my goal, and the Conservative goal, to keep this country intact and Constitutional.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 7:59 PM
Comment #403451

And you believe I would vote for Hillary because…?

Rocky

Take a comprehensive reading course Rocky. I wrote about polling. Liberals are so easy to confuse.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 12, 2016 8:01 PM
Comment #403452

Royal,

“Take a comprehensive reading course Rocky. I wrote about polling.”

Perhaps you have mistaken me for someone that actually cares what you think. Here’s a quarter, go call someone else.

In recent months you have given me absolutely no reason to change my mind about your opinion.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 12, 2016 8:10 PM
Comment #403464

WW, apparently you don’t believe the Founder’s had it right in putting AVC in the Constitution.

Most naysayers believe, if implemented, the misguided citizenry would get us all discomboberated thru a ‘runaway convention’.

That is so far from the truth. Just look at the time it takes to get a proposed amendment pushed thru 37 states. Years and years. And, look at what the previous proposals have been; a balanced budget amendment, and so on - - = nothing dramatic or out of sync with the Constitution here.

Flash in the pan demonstrations at a political rally have no relation to AVC in any way.

Assuming some proposed amendment was ratified and in a couple of years folks decided they didn’t like it. Congress could nix the amendment through normal procedures.

This idea that a bad proposal could become law thru AVC is a pipe dream.

I believe the Founder’s knew well what they were doing when including AVC.

Just by the folks having access to AVC would have a limiting effect on what Congress might do with legislation.

As it is, the folks have no recourse but to vote elected officials from office and we know how that has gone.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Comment #403465

I don’t know where you get that from, roy ellis. I said people should be wary, not I don’t believe in Article 5, or the founders were wrong. Quit putting words into my mouth. You’re not a Democratic.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 13, 2016 10:35 AM
Comment #403486

pordenimwah there WW. Yes, thru AVC we could get rid of ‘citizens united’, achieve CFR and similar - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 13, 2016 4:26 PM
Comment #403489

We already have term limits, roy ellis. We also have the ability to balance the budget.

You know as well as I do any amendments to the constitution would be as long as the bible and attempt to include every conceivable variation of every scenario they could think of to maintain the status quo.

Don’t you think they would include a clause in a balanced budget amendment that would cover “emergencies” or “war” or “economic calamity”?

Do term limits mean anything when anyone who run pledges allegiance to the party before the constitution?
Your third party would be the same.

And now we have 45% of these people thinking the first amendment violates their safe space!

Deep down you know that constitution isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Not as long as the judiciary think it is a “living document”. (the rule of whim)

The Article 5 was written for a federal government that considered the constitution the law, not abstract guidelines. We’re way past getting any support from the constitution.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 13, 2016 5:22 PM
Comment #403494

WW, kain’t never cud do anything. AVC might be the greatest thing since canned beer. Let’s give it a try and if the folks don’t like it congress can nix it.

Fer shure a balanced budget proposal would have a war clause and, perhaps, an emergency clause. Otherwise, it would be an amendment that would have the potential to destroy the country.

I am not fond of a balanced budget proposal as that ties the hands of he President on some critical issues. But, I’m willing to give AVC a shot and, if a particular amendment doesn’t work out then congress could nix it.

Regarding a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att - - - It would be founded in some rules that lock out special interest money and provide members with a way to vote from the party those elected officials who would talk one way and act another. They could serve out their time in office but would be banned from the party and not be further supported.

I would think, in quick order, this party would overtake the rep/dems become the party of choice by the majority.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 13, 2016 6:41 PM
Comment #403496

You’re obviously not familiar with how an Article 5 amendment is made.

Article 5 defines two separate processes toward amending the constitution. The only similarity to both procedures is they both must be initiated by the sitting congress.

Congress can write an amendment and submit it to the states, or the states can request a convention and when 2/3rds of the states submit a request the congress must grant it.

If the states then ratify an amendment resulting from the convention it is as binding as an amendment written by congress and must go through the repeal process for it to be reversed.

There is no nixing an amendment by the congress if they don’t like it. Any amendment created by an article 5 convention and ratified by the states is as binding as the first amendment.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 13, 2016 10:56 PM
Comment #403512
One has to be a nutball/liberal or a paid agitator to go to a political rally to protest, rep or dem or anyone else.

Roy over the years conservative have brought up appeasement on different occasions when it comes to dealing with threats to the freedom and liberty of this country. We know the track record of first world conservative governments in the 30’s when they sought to appease Hitler as he ran roughshod over other countries. Chamberlain is know for his appeasement yet today.

Today we see the similarities of the right wing in this country and the people of Germany in the 20’s that led to WWII. We see the charismatic Trump campaigning on some strong language short on facts and ideas. We see the discontent of the working class who seek to blame minorities, religious minorities and the media for our problems today.

We see a republican party in control of most of the country, all but the presidency at this point, fighting to take over the presidency by any means possible, even telling us the won’t do their job when it comes time to consent on the SCOTUS selection. We see the republican party usurp the authority of the president (by sending threatening letters to Iran as an example) every chance they get.

We see Trump who is simply fantastic when he explains the feelings of many of the Americans left behind during the globalization of the countries finances. We see Trump, who was supposed to be out of the picture by know according to almost all the professional pundits and politicians, (to be replaced by Cruz or Jeb or one of the billionaires candidates take over and secure the country from the people) still gaining in delegates.

The Danger is real in the opinion of many that this country could slip even farther in fascism should the repubs successfully gain control of the presidency. IMHO this is why some on the left choose action over appeasement during the primaries. While I disagree with them (as IMHO Cruz is much more of a danger to the country), a bit to conservative to not wish appeasement would help, I don’t think they are nutcases at all.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2016 1:10 PM
Comment #403513

j2t2 wrote; ” We know the track record of first world conservative governments in the 30’s…”

He often writes this drivel comparing Nazi’s with today’s conservatives.

I would ask, if conservatives are the same today as those in Europe in the 30’s, are liberals today the same as those in the 30’s supporting the KKK?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 14, 2016 1:29 PM
Comment #403515

While I do know of Democrats who supported the KKK, I don’t know of any liberals from the ’30s who did that.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 14, 2016 1:57 PM
Comment #403518

Warren, who are the liberals you refer to in the 30’s?

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/violent-trump-protesters-are-just-following-obamas-orders-heres-proof/#ixzz42u1jcNUf

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 14, 2016 2:21 PM
Comment #403523

Royal often asks illogical questions such as this one. So rather than respond to the silly thing I will…. oh heck lets do both.

First of all Royal the conservative government of Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler in the 30’s on that we should both agree. The UK wasn’t ready to fight, they lacked weapons. So notice I mentioned the conservative government which is factual correct as Chamberlain was the Conservative Party leader then prime minister. He was succeeded by Winston Churchill so using your logic Churchill was a liberal right? Don’t be fooled by some association fallacy while you consider this Royal.

Secondly, the Klan peaked in the 20’s and fell apart in the 30’s, no support as the great depression took its toll. But even if they were active the ideology didn’t match with liberal ideology at any point. The persecution of minorities, Jews, organized labor and foreigners, is conservative ideology and always has been.

Logically Royal the flaw of assuming conservatives of Europe of the 20’s and conservatives of today is a bit bogus, I have always said the “people of Germany in the 20’s” not “the conservatives of Germany in the 20’s”. Not only that but to assume liberals of the 30’s supported the KKK is wrong. This red herring you use just confuses the issue.

So lets not miss the point Royal with these silly arguments of yours. I think you are a bit too emotional as you seem to automatically think I blame conservatives of Germany in the 20’s. SO let me just clear the air a bit as many of the posts are several years old it is easy to have forgotten some of the finer points of what I have said, especially when one gets all emotional as the comparisons sometime hit close to home.

First of all I have always said the people of Germany. Secondly they were suffering the loss of WWI the reparations and a horrific economy at the time. They were searching for answers. They were basically good people with good intentions. But they listened and followed the wrong person and slide into nationalism and then blaming foreigners, minorities, religious minorities, commies and homosexuals amongst others for the problems of the country.

Which is similar to today in several respects, you may want to argue degrees but amongst other things Trump followers have the same tendencies. Now many don’t call Trump a conservative but many do. I will leave that to you to decide but what we know is he isn’t left wing at all. His followers like the wall to keep immigrants out, amongst other conservative ideologies.

Its bigger than Trump of course and the movement has been brewing for years on the conservative side of the political spectrum. Trump has the charisma to bring many out of the wings and swell the party ranks which seems to me why he is leading the others at this point.

The problem of course is IMHO Trump is a front guy and the real problem comes from the more narcissistic farther right wing ideologues like Ted Cruz. IMHO dems should rally around Trump who perfectly presents the views of many on the right today. Cruz is much more dangerous in his silence.

The solution is not simple it is much more complex. When a politician tells us the wall will solve the problem…well you know.

Shutting down the government until one party can take all 3 branches of the federal government as well as the majority of the states should be a warning shot across the bow Royal. Yes this is exactly what conservatives have been doing. Which is why they have been so intent on stopping Hillary for so many years. Gerrymandering, voter suppression laws, anti gay laws, pitting us against each other, an arms wars at the individual level, wars for profit and territory overseas. The conservative battle cry “it isn’t fascism when we do it” just doesn’t ring true Royal. What say you.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2016 3:06 PM
Comment #403536

j2, I do believe you are embellishing the election rhetoric.

“”conservative have brought up appeasement on different occasions when it comes to dealing with threats to the freedom and liberty of this country. We know the track record of first world conservative governments in the 30’s when they sought to appease Hitler as he ran roughshod over other countries.”“

Do you really believe that Trump decided to turn his business over to his family and run for office to “threaten our freedom and liberty”.

To cast around the terms ‘Hitler’ and ‘Nazi’ in a US election cycle is beyond the pale, IMO. It suggest some kind of near fanatical frenzy in the need to win at all cost or the perceived pain in losing.

A President Trump would/will be no worse than President’s that have gone before. I do agree that losing the authority to select the next two or three SC justices would take some wind out of the dem sails.


“”Today we see the similarities of the right wing in this country and the people of Germany in the 20’s that led to WWII. We see the charismatic Trump campaigning on some strong language short on facts and ideas. We see the discontent of the working class who seek to blame minorities, religious minorities and the media for our problems today.”

‘Nazis, fascism, wwII — great green gobs, j2. Drink a glass of ice water and cool down.

The working class is not blaming immigrants, minorities or the media for their plight. ‘All lives matter’. How is that divisive? Meanwhile, the dems are pandering to the black vote, their ‘firewall’ as they call it. They are pandering to the Mexicans, Cubans, Latin Americans, gays, transgenders, class, et al. Listen to Bernie beat up on the rich.

And where do the Trumpeters put the blame? On ‘the establishment’ for setting up this failed globalisation policy. Jobs and businesses outsourced while bringing in cheap immigrant labor. Workers have had to train their cheap labor replacement before picking up their pink slip.

The immigrant is not the source of the problem and most folks realize that. The source of the problem lies with the establishment and their globalisation policies.

That is exactly what Trump is making points on. He says he will bring back jobs and businesses from overseas and he will close the border. Closing the border is not a racists thing. A country that doesn’t control it’s borders is not really a country and that is exactly what the ‘establishment’ tried to do with the NAU.

Trump is looking to get recover jobs that were taken from the workers. Providing jobs to wannabe workers and the unemployed is a good thing, IMO.

I’m going to ride the Trump train until I see some reason to get off. Granted he’s all talk and no facts. Should he become Pres and do a poor job he can be censured or impeached and so on - - -

WW3 is likely not in the cards.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 14, 2016 8:39 PM
Comment #403537

Trump’s campaign is very much in the vein of the fascist appeals in Italy and Germany during a time of economic uncertainty.

The problems of the nation are due to outsiders within the nation (Jews, now Mexican illegals) and unfair actions by foreign nations (France, UK, now China).

These problems have been exacerbated by weak, fractious and stupid political leadership.

The solution is elect leadership that recognizes the inherent strength of the nation and which can marshal it’s resources toward achievement of the national manifest destiny.

That leadership must be strong and not beholden to vested economic, political and disparate ideological interests. The only interests should be toward uniting the “real” citizens and resources of the nation toward a common goal of greatness.

That is best achieved by electing a person who understands these issues, can rid the nation of undesirables, can suppress internal dissent, can elevate the interests of the true citizens above minority interests, can override a deadlocked political system and can subsume corporate interests to the interests of the nation (Trump threat to Ford ring a bell?).

Trump is clearly running on a strongman platform like Mussolini and Hitler. He can do what others won’t or can’t do. There is seemingly no limits on his power, political or Constitutional. “The generals will do what I tell them, trust me.” Trump vowed that he would put a 35 percent import tax on Ford unless it moved the plant back to the United States.

Posted by: Rich at March 14, 2016 9:55 PM
Comment #403539

I might add that Trump quite candidly and grandiosely promises to accomplish all his goals through his personal power. He doesn’t ever talk about policy, legislative persuasion, coalitions, compromises, etc. He expresses no political or philosophical ideology. OK, he says that when pressed that he is a “common sense conservative.” He dismisses the political leadership of both parties as stupid and worthless.

So, what are we left with? Trump. That’s it. In my humble way of thinking, that means to me a would be dictator in waiting.

Posted by: Rich at March 14, 2016 10:53 PM
Comment #403540

Well, maybe you are right, Rich. Since we’ve not had a dictator for President before it might be a different 4 years. Fewer if he gets impeached. But, it should be an entertaining time for all of us.

If he could get half a wall built that would be a great achievement relative to the last 40 years or so.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 14, 2016 11:33 PM
Comment #403542

Hard to impossible for me to understand where the other folks are coming from.

Ain’t it so that the US gov’t paid businesses to relocate overseas?

Ain’t it so that millions of the best paying jobs went with them?

Ain’t it so that to retain an open borders, open visa, open immigration policy for the last 40 years has created a rush to the bottom re worker wages/benefits?

Ain’t it so that there are fewer workers with jobs since the 1970’s?

Ain’t it so that some 42% of folks are on some type of federal subsidy? Just saying that got Romney bounced out of the race.

It doesn’t have anything to do with Hillary’s emails or Trumps colorful language.

It’s the economy - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 12:03 AM
Comment #403545

Roy,

Trump isn’t going to bring back old fashioned, high paying, low skilled factory jobs from overseas. If they come back, it will be because the products can be produced and transported more cheaply in the US due to high technology robotic factories. The jobs in such factories will be far fewer and go to technologically skilled workers.

If Trump was serious about this, he would be proposing substantial investment in STEM educational training and infrastructure support for high technology industries.

But, rather than increasing US competitiveness, Trump proposes trade wars and protectionism. That has been a recipe for disaster in the past.

We live in a global economy. Trump isn’t going to change that.


Posted by: Rich at March 15, 2016 1:01 AM
Comment #403552

roy,
A lot of what you say is true. Yes, it is the economy.

The problem is that the US economy is strong and growing, while the other major economies of the world are fighting contraction. International economies continue to struggle with the deflationary effects of the 2008 Great Recession to this day. The US has the only major economy increasing interest rates. Other economies are cutting rates to stimulate growth and avoid contraction.

What this means is the dollar is strong. It is expensive for the US to export, and cheap to import. The converse holds true for foreign economies.

And what that means is there is no way of avoiding an unpleasant fact: foreign labor is going to be cheaper than American leader. Given the business atmosphere we have seen, the growing US economy versus weakening foreign ones, and the strong dollar, businesses will be able to manufacture goods cheaper abroad in weaker currencies, and import them to the US.

The US depends on trade more than any other country in the world. We NEED free trade to the maximum extent possible. Given the worldwide economic situation, it is up to the US to sustain everyone else because of our own growth. (Btw, the FOMC meeting will be today and tomorrow).

So we should fight for fair trade, prevent tariffs, and we should definitely not incentivize US companies to Offshore. Just the opposite. But the fundamentals of the situation are going to force us to face some unpleasant truths about manufacturing, and trade wars will NOT change the underlying fundamentals.

Posted by: phx8 at March 15, 2016 10:47 AM
Comment #403555
Ain’t it so that there are fewer workers with jobs since the 1970’s?

Ain’t it so that some 42% of folks are on some type of federal subsidy? Just saying that got Romney bounced out of the race.

So Roy what changed in the 70’s, what happened that put us where we are today? Well for one thing the conservative movement, the Reagan revolution, making government small and all that. Starve the Beast, cut taxes for the “job creators”, war on a credit card while lowering taxes.

Combine the conservative movement the Powell letter being implemented by corporate America, globalization without any strategy to maintain a middle class in this country.

Now lets, at the least, give credit to Trump and Sanders for talking about NAFTA and other trade agreements while the more conservatives candidates tell us tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs. But lets realize that to keep the middle class the middle class in this country with our winner take all attitude we will need to make changes. Maybe a VAT on low wage low environmental countries imports and a tax on wall street instead of an income tax on labor is worth a look. It is apparent the job creators have failed us despite the efforts of many small business so perhaps it is time to look at those companies off shoring jobs and income while importing cheap labor as something less than hero’s who deserve subsidies.

Maybe it is time to cut the military budget instead of taking the chance Trump could actually win, putting the country in the hands of an out of control conservative majority in the states Congress, the administration and the SCOTUS with their propensity to start a war while cutting taxes at the drop of a hat. I mean if we are so great why do we need a military budget bigger than the next 12 countries when most are our allies?

Posted by: j2t2 at March 15, 2016 12:23 PM
Comment #403559

I agree globalism got started with Regan. And, Clinton signed off on NAFTA. And, both parties have done nothing to help the effected workers. Quite the opposite. They have piled on with more AFTA’s and TPP’s and NAU’s and open borders, open fly in visas and so on - - -

Read my keystrokes - - - the establishment will do everything in their power to make globalism succeed, on their terms. That is, more outsourcing and more immigration. They will continue to work to lower the wages of working folks.

An Ohio lady on CNN this AM that her dad worked in the steel mills and started out in the 70’s $14-17. Entry today is $20-23. Just figuring inflation since the 70’s puts that wage at $28-29.

No GDP growth in 10 years and so on - - -

Now, you guys can wait around another 10-20 years for wages to go down enough to where we could compete in their globalised economy but, I am not of that bent.

I want change thru a 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att but until that can be achieved I want change from any quarter. And, if not change, then at least somebody who is willing to put a stick in the eye of the establishement and so on - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 1:28 PM
Comment #403560

In the general, Trump will get 25% of the dem vote, IMO

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 1:29 PM
Comment #403563

I mean if we are so great why do we need a military budget bigger than the next 12 countries when most are our allies?

IKR! Unfortunately, the military knows exactly how to get what they want from the Congress, and since it’s a government program, most of it never goes away.

If the American people vote for Trump, then they deserve what they get, but I doubt that anyone is going to get what they want. Is Trump supposed to be against globalization, seriously? Is he just against everything?

Posted by: ohrealy at March 15, 2016 2:09 PM
Comment #403569

ohrealy, Trump says he is for smart trade vs free trade. What his intentions are on trade is anybody’s guess.

However, he is at least mouthing the words ‘smart trade’.

I am of the opinion that when China was ‘globalised’ with NAFTA and the WTO they would make nice. What we get is a big military buildup, constructing defensive islands in the China Sea, and holding up NK to put a stick in our eye.

I was of the opinion that when Russia was ‘globalised’ with NAFTA and the WTO they would make nice. What we have is Crimea and half of Ukraine taken over by Russian military. They have bombed our allies and Aleppo into smitherines.

Millions of families turned out into the desert, risking life and limb to get to somewhere where they can survive.

Meanwhile, the President was just on CNN holding up placards to prompt a rap star for our entertainment.

I see no reason to vote for an establishment candidate. I see no reason to vote for any incumbent at this time. Just like the folks in 2008/12, I’m voting for hope and change.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 4:13 PM
Comment #403571

China and Russia cyberattacking us, Stealing technology thru every means conceivable.

I agree, we can’t nuke them for every bad act. But, we do need to develop new weapons system to take them on in small skirmishes. The rail gun is a good example. We should never let military technology wane.

It doesn’t help when our leaders ‘can be more flexible after the elections’ and so on - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 4:29 PM
Comment #403572

Roy,

There has been a huge plus side to the free trade agreements that nobody wants to talk about: the immense benefits to the US consumer in the cost, quality and availability of products. From electronics to cars, we have been getting a bargain.

Eventually, as labor costs rise and the standard of living increases in heretofore cheap labor countries, China, Mexico, etc., the competitive labor advantages will begin to disappear. Note that, China and Mexico have the world’s fastest growing middle class. In fact, this has already been occurring over the past few years. In 2014, the number of “reshoring” manufacturing jobs exceeded the number of “ofshoring” jobs. “..2014’s net increase of at least 10,000 jobs was the first net gain in at least 20 years,..” http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-flips-the-script-on-jobs-reshoring-finally-outpaced-offshoring-in-2014-2015-05-01

It seems to me that as this equilibrium in competitive labor costs begins to develop, it is incumbent upon the US to invest in the types of educational systems and infrastructure that will allow us to compete in tomorrow’s world markets. It is foolish to talk about bringing back the past. What we need is a vision of the future.

Posted by: Rich at March 15, 2016 7:17 PM
Comment #403577

Rich, Hillary is giving her ‘big win’ speech right now and telling the folks how she will bring back good jobs in infrastructure and manufacturing.

The establishment could have started a big infrastructure program during the recession/depression but chose not to.

Trump’s main bang has been to tell us of Ford, Pfizer, nabisco and others planning to relocate overseas.

If the establishment is going to keep the border open I don’t see why they wouldn’t be suggesting that pretty soon, pretty soon, the banks will start lending money to build houses and all this labor will be needed to ‘rebuild’ the country or something like that. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just tell us some lies about how good it’s going to be. Only thing I can figure is the good stuff must be a long time coming in their eyes.

Instead companies keep going overseas and building more robots and more immigrants come in for jobs that aren’t there so, they go on the taxpayer dole.

Rich, it is not the job of the US consumer to develop the 3rd world countries. I want anything I eat to be labeled as to the source. I’m not at all fond of walking from carpark to Walmarts front door, sorting out the walmart brand products, standing in line to pay out, and so on - - -

I’d much rather have a choice of stores selling made in USA goods.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 15, 2016 9:51 PM
Comment #403579

“Rich, it is not the job of the US consumer to develop the 3rd world countries.”

That’s correct, Roy. But such concerns do not enter into the purchasing equation. The US consumer simply purchases the best product at the best price. Rational and understandable, particularly in a free market economy.

Posted by: Rich at March 15, 2016 10:53 PM
Comment #403664

Free trade is a misnomer. I imagine that some 20-30k folks worked on regulations for NAFTA. WTO regs would need 50 feet of shelf storage space.

I believe Trump will make some reference to ‘fair’ trade in the generals. His highly diverse supporters have seen enough of free trade, NAFTA, globalism, $20T debt, insurance rates thru the roof, few jobs, college debt, and so on - - -

Down in the noise, I bought a spool of ½” nylon tape for wrapping pipe threads today at Lowes. Made in China, and nothing else was on the shelf. The spool was mfctrd ¼” too wide and when you tried to use the tape it ran off into the extra space and became thread like. I really don’t need any Chinese stuff made by Chinese factories. But, stores will put it on the shelf with no other products as they want to reap the larger profit on the junk stuff.

I think the general election will bring out that many folks are on the verge of dropping into the ‘poor class’.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 16, 2016 10:26 PM
Comment #403737

Roy the problem with the Trade agreements is “our trade deals were about protecting the most highly educated workers, while exposing less-educated workers to competition with their low-paid counterparts in the developing world.”


Here are a couple of reads you may find interesting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-new-truth-about-free-_b_9471836.html


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/global-inequality-branko_b_9480366.html

Posted by: j2t2 at March 18, 2016 2:14 AM
Comment #403775

J2, I can agree with the two urls but the problems they point to are just a couple of many many problems created by globalisation and ‘free trade’.

A lot has been written about free trade and globalism but, I’ve read or heard nothing of what the inside establishment (corpocracy) thinking is on how to deal with those left outside the winners circle re globalisation. Perhaps they believe that the system would be strong enough to carry those left outside on the welfare roles and that few would complain if they were taken care of.

Perhaps they thought they could streamline world trade, and the efficiency gained thru having the same laws, wage scales, and so on, that they could eventually work the losers into the globalised cocoon.

Whatever they are thinking, it’s real easy to see they are still 20-30 years away from achieving such parity among the nations of the world. Most of the losers are not willing to wait that long. They are getting restless.

They are voting for Trump, who has no way in the world to change anything as President. I am one of them. If he can just be a stick in their eye, I will be pleased. Then, over the next 4 years we might get a 3rd party started that could do something about trade, globalisation and corpocracy.

But, it can’t be just any 3rd party, j2. Has to be Founded in rules to lock out corpocracy and designed to achieve CFR.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 18, 2016 8:47 PM
Comment #403800

Rich, that url is spot on IMO.

“”Leaving Americans to slug it out with low-paid Chinese workers is a death sentence. Helping them improve their skills to overcome that competition is the only way out. The US government, however, has not invested enough in education and job training programs to aid workers laid low by globalization to reset their careers and find better paying, more stable employment.”“

In other words, we have to hang in until wages can be normalized around the world. IMO, that’s 20=30 years or more away.

Donald’s supporters don’t have that kind of patience. Not that Trump can change anything, he can’t, but he can be a stick in the eye of corpocracy. That’s a small win, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 19, 2016 11:17 AM
Comment #403821

Actually, I don’t think that it is going to be that long, Roy. As one of my prior links points out, on shoring of manufacturing has begun to outpace off shoring by US corporations. China and Mexico have had explosive growth in their middle class over the past few years. The wage arbitrage has begun to lessen.

That said, I think we agree on the need for vastly more assistance for workers displaced by globalization. We need to invest more in education and training to prepare our work force for the future.

In terms of sticking corpocracy in the eye, I think that we need to address the problem of US corporations parking enormous profits off shore, untaxed and unavailable for investment in the US.

Posted by: Rich at March 19, 2016 6:28 PM
Comment #403836

While manufacturing is returning to the US, jobs in manufacturing are not returning. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back/

Posted by: Rich at March 20, 2016 10:30 AM
Comment #403845

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/05/18/job-outlook-2014-graduates/8809801/

Just depends on what one chooses to believe, Rich. I do know that the truth is very hard to find today.

My grandson has been attending a major univ for a couple of years and it seems a very few grads find jobs in their degree field.

I don’t believe any of what I read in the media. I don’t believe stats put out by gov’t/corpocracy agency’s.

I treat media numbers as general rather than real. Like, I do believe, in general, that some 1% own, in general, some 40% of wealth. This bothers me greatly as they also own nigh 100% of gov’t. Taken together, this can’t be good for democracy, liberty, Constitution and so on - - -

According to Trump Pfizer, Nabisco, Ford, and a couple more are heading to Mexico. Any returning jobs to US I see as pandering at best.

My 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att platform calls for no taxation of corporations but, only after party rules are in place to shut off the money influence on the political system.

I don’t see mfctring jobs ever returning to the US. IMO, the US ecosystem is borderline survival at this point in time. High percentage of male bass in Chesapeake carrying eggs, bees aren’t making it, and so on - - -

What seals the corpocracy’s fate with me is that after NAFTA and the AFTA’s and throughout the recession/depression the corpocracy kept flooding the country with more workers and they haven’t showed any sign of letting up.

Trump has recently related the story of US workers being fired with their last job mission being that of training their immigrant replacement.

Anyone with the brain of a flea can understand that their reasoning is to drive US worker wages down, which they have done, albeit it’s been really slow for them to accomplish. As I can tell wages are down some 20% since the 70’s. And, that’s using gov’t inflation figures which I don’t believe are accurate.

The corpocracy and you are saying that more training and education is needed to prepare young folks for the future growth we are about to get.

We are told that the US spends the most per student on education while ranking around 30th in the world re education. Young folks are going to college, and coming out jobless and in debt, big debt.

This past week a young lady graduate sued her college for what, ‘overpromising’, on lawyer jobs after graduation.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 20, 2016 1:07 PM
Comment #403846

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/many-college-grads/

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecopro.pdf

These urls don’t lend much credence to education as a solution. Too many grads chasing too few jobs.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 20, 2016 1:09 PM
Comment #403893

The TPP “free trade” agreement

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/fools-or-liars-on-the-tra_b_9519516.html

Posted by: j2t2 at March 22, 2016 12:31 AM
Comment #403927
This past week a young lady graduate sued her college for what, ‘overpromising’, on lawyer jobs after graduation.

She would make a pretty bad lawyer if she wasn’t aware that there are too many law schools with too many people enrolled. That’s been a given for many years.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 23, 2016 2:19 PM
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