Third Party & Independents Archives

Trump and the Silent Majority

We’ve seen the media, establishment, corpocracy and most democrats throw the kitchen sink at Trump. And, if he wins the nomination the hail and brimstone will double or triple up on him.


The most audacious shot I've noticed is the one about the 'KKK'. Jake Tepper? Of CNN threw the KKK phrase at Trump. Then, instantaneously, the entire media went into a feeding frenzy. Some suggesting Trump may be racist, others flat out stating he now qualifies as a racist. Down the road I'm sure he will be asked if he likes porn stars, does he know any gay people and so on - - -

I've been out here on the WB for several years berating the corpocracy for working to bring down the working class to some acceptable level where the US can compete in a globalised world.

You can go right to the start of it all with the Regan era and 'greed is good'. Amnesty with a promise to secure the border, Following by Clinton and NAFTA, followed by Bush 2 and the NAU, followed by the current admin working on more AFTA's. More recently the folks have seen more open borders work thru Executive Order. They have witnessed pure insane foreign policy re Russia, China, the ME, ISIS, and NK.

The folks have had it. I never thought I would see it in my lifetime but the 'silent majority' has finally, finally decided to speak out.

The folks want a gov't that has some mission other than streamlining the efficiency of the world at the whim of business interest. A good many of us are rebelling against the influx of immigrants at a time when good jobs are hard to come by. They now understand this effort to break down the working class to some acceptable level . Ergo the longest recession and, remember you heard it here years ago -

Going to be a long time before the fat lady sings. Oops! Sorry about that un=PC remark, hope the media doesn't Trump me. Speaking of Trump. One man, however high placed, can't take on the corpocracy and win. In fact, Trump can at best be an agitator, and advocate for the working man. The corpocracy will roll over Trump like an ant getting whacked by an 18 wheeler.

But, until we can get a new 3rd party up and running I'll ride the Trump train as far as it goes.

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve. . .

Posted by Roy Ellis at March 1, 2016 7:36 PM
Comments
Comment #403145

Just watching Hillary pandering to her supporters. She’s offering a pig in every poke, going to bring back mfctring and so on - - -

Imagine that from the head of the Clinton Foundation. One wonders what the exec’s at GS think about her pandering. They must be beyond amazed and maybe not, as this has been business as usual for a couple of hundred years.

True, Donald has billions but, he didn’t get it from foreign donors and so on - - -

Rubio is on saying that the Obama admin is the reason your children won’t be better off than your generation. No, Rubio, it was you and you corpocratic cronies that gave us rampant globalism, open borders, NAU and so on - - -

I really appeal to the Trump supporters, fractured dems, and Indies to take this opportunity to unit in a new 3rd party designed to reject the special interest and implement REAL CFR.

Frustrated reps, dems and indies could put a party together larger in number than the current rep and dem party.

Trump can be a great bully pullpit for a 3rd party but acting by himself he really can’t build a wall and so on - - -

It will take a new 3rd party to achieve REAL reform. Now is a great opportune time to get started.

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 1, 2016 9:13 PM
Comment #403147

I don’t see a financial problem with Trump building the wall. The laws have already been passed to build it. Everything is legally in place. All that has to be done is the work.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 1, 2016 9:30 PM
Comment #403149

WW, you’ve got to be out of yer rabbit a**sed mind if you think the corpocracy will build a wall because Trump want’s one.

Yes, he can make nice with corpocracy, go to meetings, backslap each other and so on - — but, his presidency will be stonewalled front to back, IMO.

No MON, No fun, as they say.

Well, the silent majority woke up enough to nominate Trump but, do you think they will vote from office their current reps? Especially those reps with enough tensure to bring home the bacon such as ‘bridges to nowhere’ and so on - - -

Sorry WW, Trump could not get a wall built even if he was willing to pay for it.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 1, 2016 10:24 PM
Comment #403151

Two major reasons for Trump’s popularity:

(1)A lot of voters are fed up with FOR-SALE, do-nothing, career politicians; A lot of voters are not thrilled by Trump, but they look at their choices and figure he is no worse than the politicians they already know are FOR-SALE, do-nothing, career politicians;

(2)A lot of voters agree with what Trump is saying about:
(a)fair-trade;
(b)illegal immigration;
(c)securing the borders;
(d)tax rates that are too high for Corporations and running corporations out of the nation;
(e)ditching the unAffordable Care Act;
(f)protecting 2nd Amendment rights;
(g)acknowledges that a $19 Trillion national federal debt and $60 Trillion of nation-wide debt is endangering the nation’s future;

Posted by: d.a.n at March 1, 2016 11:01 PM
Comment #403153

Right Roy.

Voters will still fail again (as usual) to oust sufficient numbers of FOR-SALE, lazy, do-nothing, corrupt career politicians.

As a result, as usual, little (if any progress) will ever materialize.

At any rate, the voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , and re-elect, at least (perhaps) until repeatedly rewarding corrupt, FOR-SALE incumbent politicians with perpetual re-election finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at March 1, 2016 11:07 PM
Comment #403154

Roy,
It is ironic that a billionaire would claim to represent the people. He never did it before now.

And by the way, brace yourself. Trump has a long history of sexual promiscuity. That will come out. Count on it. Personally, I don’t particularly care, but a lot of people do. There are a lot of women out there who really don’t like to see Trump hanging out with his young wife- his third.

As for Fair Trade, Trump raises a good issue here. Part of the problem is the strong dollar makes it hard for us to export and easy for us to import. Right now we have one of the strongest economies in the world. Almost alone among the major economies of the world, we are raising interest rates while almost everyone else is cutting their rates to stimulate their economy. We are carrying on our back a lot of others that are either stuck in neutral or contracting. Do you want to see Trump weaken the dollar? Are you sure?

If you’re talking about replacing the ACA with universal health, I am with you.

This morning, Speaker Ryan and Senate Majority Leader McConnell denounce racism and the KKK in no uncertain terms. In tonight’s victory speech, Trump threatened Speaker Ryan. Trump threatened the Speaker of the House.

Do you really think this guy is a good idea?

Posted by: phx8 at March 1, 2016 11:13 PM
Comment #403156

ph, it’s clear you don’t get what’s happening. Voters, dems and reps, are voting to reject a gov’t that they feel has betrayed them.

If the dems bring up sexual promiscuity then they will be Trumped by Hillary’s emails. Weight that in yore mind, ph.

d.a.n, good to know you can still type. Your reasoning as to Trump’s popularity is daid on.

Right now the reps are desperately looking for a way to cut Trump out of the equation. But, as we speak, Trump is busy ‘cutting a deal’ with the establishment. His first words to them will be ‘Look, we can cut a deal’, then, ‘I can get along with you people’, and so on - - -

Within two weeks they will be eating pizza together and planning on how to deal with Hillary and the Clinton Foundation. Like striking gold, IMO.

I’m really impressed by Jeffry Lord, a spokesperson for Trump. He is on CNN a lot and demonstrates a good command of political history, remembers ever detail about anything Trump ever said, when it was said and so on - - -

If Trump can draw people like Lord for support it would demonstrate his political acumen and intelligence in organizing and managing.

I’m liking Trump better as we go forward but, who knows where he will go once in the oval office.

And, yeah we agree that voters will rail against other peoples representatives but continue to vote for their incumbent. But, kudos to Virginia for removing Baynor? from office. It would be a thill to see more of that.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 2, 2016 12:01 AM
Comment #403158

There is an unsilent minority. This group has nothing to do with a majority, nothing at all. We as Americans have been through many differences in the 230+ years of our existence. What has brought us through these differences is not standing back to back ready to duel or nose to nose screaming our demands(not that it hasn’t happened and won’t happen). No, what has helped us overcome differences in the past and will continue to in our future is to stand shoulder to shoulder, recognize our differences and confront the future as American men, women, immigrants, members of different faiths or none, business people, working citizens, citizens in need of assistance, citizens willing to help those in need, politicians, elderly and young, educators and students. Whether the next President is Clinton, Trump, Sanders, Cruz or anyone else is not as important as the faith that we have in each other. Divisiveness be damned!

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2016 9:35 AM
Comment #403159

Speaks, the way I read Roy’s posts is that the ‘corpocracy’ controls that ‘unsilent minority’ in order to keep us divided and unable to stand shoulder to shoulder with each other. To keep us at each others throats over stupid things like how to define marriage, who pays for abortion and how much more our neighbor has, so that we will ignore things like NAFTA, “NAU AND ATA’s”.

IMHO, Roy’s ‘silent majority’ consists of those Americans who are tired of sitting back and doing nothing while the ‘corpocracy’ and its ‘silent minority’ wreck the country, and they are now becoming active in order to confront the future.

Posted by: kctim at March 2, 2016 9:53 AM
Comment #403160

I am willing to entertain any idea that helps us to stand shoulder to shoulder to confront the future together as a country. Any idea that seeks to cause divisiveness will be discarded in the eventual outcome, including this ‘corpocracy’ if that is it’s only intent. We have a very storied and eventful past of overcoming our differences, I don’t expect that to change in the future. Anyone who cares to promote divisiveness I would suggest they find a shoulder to stand aside of.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2016 10:15 AM
Comment #403161
IMHO, Roy’s ‘silent majority’ consists of those Americans who are tired of sitting back and doing nothing while the ‘corpocracy’ and its ‘silent minority’ wreck the country, and they are now becoming active in order to confront the future.

Kctim, I agree, well kinda. I am a bit surprised by how you have framed this issue as you like to blame Obama for the dividing of the country and usually defend corporate America.Perhaps you can elaborate on the issue a bit so I can understand your view on the issue. I mean raising the issue is what you see as dividing the country right?


Roy here is a bit of history on how corporations are doing to Americans what they previously reserved for other countries. I’m sure you are aware of the Powell memo but if not here is a link.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/


Many of the Trumpsters are people who have set out the last few elections, those that said votes don’t count. Part of the problem IMHO. They are fooling themselves if they think Trump is the answer when in fact Trump is the problem. Building “the wall” may employ a few thousand for a bit of time but it will be foreign workers, isn’t that what Trump meant when he said Mexico will build it after all? I doubt they will see Davis Bacon wages either.

Trump did help raise the ire of many but like the people of Germany in the late ‘20’s the Trumpsters then went off in the wrong direction. We have an immigration issue that can be solved in Congress which is where the corpocracy comes in, and while Trump is pointing the finger south, and has their way. The refusal of Congress to deal with the issue, other than raise the limits on foreign workers coming in to the country, tells us the problem lies in Congress and there is little any administration can do.

Trump may sound like a populist but he is an authoritarian. Look at who has led the charge against the overreach of corporate America for years Roy not just paid lip service to it for an election cycle. Who has been the vocal minority against NAFTA and wrongheaded trade agreements from the beginning. then ask yourself why you think Trump is the answer.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 2, 2016 11:32 AM
Comment #403162

While we are on it Roy, ask yourself why all those Mexicans (and I include Central Americans as well) came north in such huge numbers during the 90’s. Now remember we also had some come to pick crops for many years, but why did they come in droves, you may suggest it was the amnesty of the Reagan administration but look a bit deeper. Look at the effects of NAFTA on the Mexican farmers, they were after all part of the NAFTA as we were.

Based upon what you discover on this issue and the fact that more Mexicans are heading home than coming here what is our immigration problem and how do we solve it? Will a wall help?

IMHO the problem isn’t the immigrants, nor the blacks,
Muslims or what ever minority group Trump, Crux and Rubio and their ilk will tell you it is. The problem isn’t lazy people as Cruz and Rubio and most conservatives will tell you. The problem is those that use this type of attack while continuing to negotiate trade deals without labor and environmental concerns addressed. It it those that will tell us we need to import professional workers as we can’t find them here.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 2, 2016 11:48 AM
Comment #403164

J2, no matter what side of the issue you are on, it cannot be argued that President Obama’s words and policy have deeply divided the nation.

I don’t “defend corporate America,” I just don’t believe in Utopia or all the conspiracies.
You see, I understand government is the tool they use in their favor, but I also understand that when we give government more power over us, we are also giving them a stronger tool to use.

As far as this ‘corpocracy’ issue, I just don’t see us as a ‘society dominated by politically and economically large corporations,’ but as individuals dominated by government and the political activists who abuse it.

Government is the only entity with the power to force people to do things against their will. Not Wal-Mart, not Pepsi, not Exxon, not Marlboro, not United Health Care. Government.

But I do respect and enjoy Roy’s posts on the issue, and hope he continues posting them.

Posted by: kctim at March 2, 2016 12:25 PM
Comment #403166

We have a recent history of bailing out corporations who did stupid things to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

Letting failures fail, whether individuals or corporations, is logical and good for them and the country.

It is impossible to lift up everyone and everything without bending over and getting jammed in the arse.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2016 1:58 PM
Comment #403167

RF, Agreed about corporations doing stupid things and then being enriched at the expense of all of us. However letting some things fail was not an option at the time and we did what we could to save the future, we can dispute that but it is water under the bridge now. Now not allowing corporations to put us into a position of having to bail them out seems reasonable and intelligent. Individuals are not always the same, some should and do fail. Others we attempt to help but with limitations. Regarding your statement about being impossible to lift everyone and everything, you might consider what Archimedes said regarding that:

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.

Now if we can just find that lever and fulcrum.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2016 3:25 PM
Comment #403169

Regarding Archimedes Speak, some believe the lever is borrowed money and the fulcrum is the back of taxpayers.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2016 3:42 PM
Comment #403171

And some believe that if that is the case and it serves it’s purpose then it could be advantageous to pursue. Of course there are others that cannot accept that and disagree completely. I am pretty sure where you come down on this but, what if borrowed money and the taxpayers backs were able to accomplish lifting everything and everyone? Would it not make sense to use those tools? Or should we not try that and either drive ourselves into oblivion with austerity or give up and surrender to the inevitable procession towards hell with our hand basket heavily protected? Or perhaps a happy median?

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2016 4:03 PM
Comment #403172

Speak wrote; “what if borrowed money and the taxpayers backs were able to accomplish lifting everything and everyone? Would it not make sense to use those tools?”

I took two logic classes in college. We learned to test sentences by applying logic. We learned that any sentence containing the words…”what if” was automatically false.

Speak uses a common liberal phrase “drive ourselves into oblivion with austerity” when promoting government spending and debt.

I am not advocating austerity that resembles what you envision. However, a country with $20 Trillion in current debt with nearly $100 Trillion in future unfunded liability debt, and annual budget deficits in the billions can not continue to thrive or prosper.

We are not smart with our money Speak. We waste more than the annual budget of many countries. We are truly a rich country in many ways. Our natural resources and people resources are very valuable assets. Why continue to squander them on politically motivated causes that benefits the few at the expense of the many?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2016 4:42 PM
Comment #403173

RF, I will take that as a “perhaps a happy median” answer then? It would appear that you might be looking for a liberal dog to kick on this issue but I could be wrong. I think the 20 trillion dollar debt might have had some of that avoided had we not had two unfunded wars but again that is water under the bridge. I’ll just take your comment as encouragement to work towards a happy median of unreasonable austerity and being smart with our money.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2016 5:16 PM
Comment #403175


Speak, the noise amongst us is bewildering. Us bloggers are just like the talking heads/pundits on the media networks. Each has about a minute to make a flash-bang statement or two before the mike is passed. Result is that five minutes later no one remembers or cares what got said. Flip side is, one can’t lay out a 20 page dissertation culminating in his 100 word flash-bang comment.

I believe folks debating are of two flavors. One, the debater is serious and passionate about certain positions he/she holds. And, two, some debaters are in it just to agitate, practice ‘gotcha’s’ and so on - - -

I’ve observed WB’ers for 4 or 5 years and I don’t know that a single person has changed their political beliefs during all that time. Change is most often forced upon us by Father Time marching on.

So, in the interests of a good debate thread, lemme try again.

I’ve observed gov’t for several decades and have decided that, over time, big money donors have way to much influence on the political system., (and thank you, j2, for the Powell letter which I had not seen before).

This relationship between donors and elected officials seems to convolve around the two political parties and wealthy business interests, most often corporations and financial institutions (I do want to see a copy of Hillary’s speech to GS).

At the founding political parties weren’t in existence. Corporations were. but under strict regulation; they could be disbanded if they screwed up. In 1886 corporations were able to acquire, thru the Supreme Court, certain human rights known as ‘corporate personhood’. This came about without there ever being a court case or hearing on the subject. An ex-railroad executive who happened to get elected to the SC just said it was so…

This symbiotic relationship between wealthy donors and political parties has naturally strengthened. The corporation donates to the parties and receive friendly legislation in return. This works well for all concerned except the voter/consumer (why can’t I see a copy of Hillary’s GS speech?).

This tag team approach on the consumer has culminated in new heights and is much more efficient. Political parties have worked to set up the gov’t legislative process so that very powerful chairpersons rule over what your elected representative can present for new legislation. These ‘gatekeepers’ receive the major donations and act as the benefactor in doling out funds to ‘lesser’ legislators.

Likewise, Supreme Court Justices, who must be ‘blessed’ by the legislators prior to getting a seat on the court, have worked to put the wealthy and their institutions in the catbird seat. I’m referring to ‘Citizens United’ which served to allow unlimited money from unlimited sources to flow into media advertising for, and against, those seeking elected office.

There has been much written about the Clinton Foundation as a conduit for donor funds involving quid-pro-quo actions, receiving foreign donations, the sharing of classified DOS information with personnel employed by the Foundation and working for Hillary while she was Secretary of State.

We’ve seen these powerful interest that did not exist at the Founding, turn the Federal Republic into an oligarchy which I refer to as Corpocracy.

Not to belaboure the point but let’s consider the affect of Corpocracy.

Corpocracy really began to ramp up with the advent of the Regan admin and the era of ‘greed is good’ The economy was good and migrants flooded north to find good jobs. Both parties supported open borders and Regan gave amnesty to some 3-4 million immigrants and promised a concerned citizenry that the border would be secure.

In later years the Corpocracy decided , the Corpocracy decided, get it… that the world should be globalised. That inferred that the US should give up some sovereignty, abide by the ‘world court’ and international law and adopt regional trade zones much like the EU. Further, US manufacturing was encouraged$$ to move their businesses overseas, especially heavy industry. Along with manufacturing went some 2 million of the best blue collar jobs and followed by many research and development organizations. NAFTA was implemented by the Corpocracy, by the Corpocracy, get it … with little input from labor or concerned citizens.

Corpocracy created the WTO to regulate and enforce trade laws . Today we find cases where congress pays farmers to grow more of a certain crop followed by a WTO lawsuit that levies huge fines for violating WTO rules as to how much of a crop can be produced and by whom.

Following NAFTA and few AFTA’s the Corpocracy set about working in secrecy to establish a North American Union (NAU) comprised of the US, Mexico and Canada whereby workers could travel throughout the Union without visas or entry/exit documentation. There was to be 18 lane highways and 12 foot wide pipelines running from Mexico to Canada and be known as the Transcontinental Super Highway. At some point the citizenry got wind of it and the NAU never materialized. But, the Corpocracy, not to be denied, has implemented much of the NAU in pieces over the years.

This is the reason Trump will not be able to build a wall, even if he agreed to ‘self fund’ the wall.

Folks have watched the Corpocracy develop and deliver us and much of the world into an economic disaster. Such as:

$20T federal debt that your grandkids grandkids will have to pay off.

43M on federal assistance

Fewest workers in work force since the 60’s

Available jobs are low wage and many part time

First generation that is expected to do less well than their parents.

Some 35 years of pandering about securing the border

And, you know the drill. I can parrot another 100 line entries.

So, this election cycle the Corpocracy started out again telling the people how they were going to creat jobs, secure the border, better health care, better education, and so on - - -

They set up their High Corpocratist, Hillary to run against ‘old Bernie the Socialist’ and some other guy to run on the dem ticket. They set up some loyal Corpocratists to run on the GOP ticket.

They were not expecting the young and affected to get behind Bernie and never thought that Trump would run. And, when he did they never thought he would win any votes.

So, here we are. Bernie is giving Hillary a run for her money while chastising the Corpocracy. Trump has whooped the Corpocracy candidates and the GOP is sweating blood trying to figure out how to keep him from upsetting their apple cart.

Hillary has put a nickel on every perceived wrong that any minority segment may have suffered or ever will suffer, as usual.

The GOP is falling all over themselves to get to the border and start driving stakes, or so they say.

But first the Corpocracy has to win the nomination. They are going to win by tarring Trump with the ‘KKK’. They are going to win by ‘standing up to the corporations and financial institutions’. They are going to win by calling out Romney to deliver an anti-Trump speech, and so on - - -

Well, Bernie and Trump have set records for new voters showing up at the polls. This while the Corpocracy is working hard to take Bernie and Trump out.

I don’t see how Hillary can be perceived as a viable candidate as the classified emails remain a problem for her. I certainly would not trust her judgement after the storing of classifieds on a personal server.

I do believe that Trump can win and assemble some good folks to support him in the oval office. I don’t believe he can be effective at reforming those things the Corpocracy holds dear but, he may make some progress on foreign policy; Russia in Crimea, NK rattling rockets, the ME and Africa, and so on - - -

Done. And, I tried to keep it at a high level, not going into the noise with he said/she said stuff. While I’m frustrated with the electorates refusal to correct all this crap, I’m not angry or mad at anything or anybody.

What with the h-u-g-e voter turnout and the support given to an outsider, I do believe this is an opportune time to gin up a 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att designed to shunt special interest money. I truly believe that the only way to achieve REAL reform is thru such a 3rd party.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 2, 2016 6:58 PM
Comment #403176

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/05/foreclosure-phil

Time has a way of dimming the memory to bad events. How could I have left Phil out of my diatribe against Corpocracy. Read up on the fellow that was adviser to that true blue blood conservative in his bid for President, John McCain.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 2, 2016 10:05 PM
Comment #403180

it cannot be argued that President Obama’s words and policy have deeply divided the nation.

Kctim, you seem to forget the past , First of all there was a country before Obama was elected president. It was divided before Obama took office. Other than being elected to office Obama hasn’t done much to divide us further. You need to hold those who told the American people he was a radical Christian Muslim born in another country, despite it not being true, responsible for dividing the country.

You tell me it is his policies and words but kctim that is life my friend, of course the political opposition don’t want to hear him but to the point they had but one goal before than would consider anything else, the goal was to get him out of office. Their hatred divided themselves and the country with their extremism.

When you guys do acknowledge there was a president before Obama it is usually to claim Obama supporters were mean and cruel to the then president forgetting how your team treated Clinton, But that doesn’t make history go away kctim. Nor does the failed policies of your team or the extremism of those opposed to Obama or the low character of the candidates y’all chose ti run against him. This type of blame the victim mentality while typical of your team is wrong kctim.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 9:22 AM
Comment #403181

re, you can’t see a copy of Hillary’s speech to Goldman Sachs because she hasn’t released that to the general public. You are within your rights to ask or wonder why she won’t but she is within her rights to withhold that until she decides to release it. You might say that it is unwise for a candidate for President to do that and you might be correct. Fortunately we live in a country that doesn’t allow for any individual to require another to divulge information unless there has been an infraction of the law that can then be used to obtain a warrant to produce demands made by individuals. I expect, if and when the text of the speech is released, it will be done with the political acumen that the Clinton’s have displayed in the past, or not, that is her decision.

I cannot address all of the other concerns that you detailed in regards to corporations holding our political process hostage. I am certain that you are not alone in that respect and I share some of your concern. As you have pointed out corporations were not in existence as they exist today when the birth of our nation began. We are still a work in progress, some of us are very upset with the progression and again I would not dissuade anyone to think otherwise. While not in agreement with the current developments, I do not hold the strong opinions that you do but perhaps that is because I don’t really have the time to delve into those concerns. Sure you can chastise me for being that way but I am to busy enjoying my life in our great nation to care.

Your adherence to an ideology of the only way forward is through a 3rd political party while certainly within your rights doesn’t interest me. I will however stand shoulder to shoulder with your belief in your efforts to bring that to fruition and would never subvert those efforts. Good luck.

I am supporting Hillary Clinton’s candidacy and I am not concerned with your estimation of her viability to obtain the nomination or be elected. I will continue to support her until such time as I deem that untenable. You are free to support the candidate of your choice as is your right as a citizen. I will not attempt to disabuse the choice you make and would ask the same from you. But you have no compunction to honor my request and are free to voice your opinions of the Clinton candidacy and the failures that you may deem that are inherent to that candidacy.

Thanks for a thoughtful comment.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2016 10:18 AM
Comment #403182
I don’t “defend corporate America,” I just don’t believe in Utopia or all the conspiracies.

You do however seem to enjoy framing the issue as if the two choices are either corpocracy or utopia and conspiracies, the false dilemma mistake IMHO.

You see, I understand government is the tool they use in their favor, but I also understand that when we give government more power over us, we are also giving them a stronger tool to use.

Which is the difference between us kctiom. First of all I don’t subscribe to this composition fallacy of yours. Secondly blaming government for those that misuse it is blaming the cops because the bank got robbed.

As far as this ‘corpocracy’ issue, I just don’t see us as a ‘society dominated by politically and economically large corporations,’ but as individuals dominated by government and the political activists who abuse it.

Yet we are dominated by large corporations more and more, Choosing the myopic problem s always being the fault of the government only allows them to shift the focus and divide us, thanks for being o easliy led on this issue.

Government is the only entity with the power to force people to do things against their will. Not Wal-Mart, not Pepsi, not Exxon, not Marlboro, not United Health Care. Government.

Of course here we go off into kctimutopia where all problems go away when we rid our selves of government. You put forth the problems with monarchies and such, the problems the founding fathers dealt with, as the problems with a government by and for the people. You fail to take into consideration that we the people are the government and without the government who or what entity would fill the void. Seems your kctimutopia is the Somalia of the past decade of utopia’s.

We need the social contract kctim in order to have a civilization, it is that simple.

But I do respect and enjoy Roy’s posts on the issue, and hope he continues posting them.

As do I, hell kctim I even enjoy your views on these issues and I would hope Roy does as well. Now that we are past the Kumbaya moment I don’t dismiss Roys rants as being nonexistent. The simple fact is we live in a world where the local government , meaning the local people, pay many millions to have stadiums built for corporations so other corporations can pay a pittance to have the stadiums named after the corporation and then the people foot the bill and the companies make the millions. Yet you would have us believe it is something about the individual.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 10:59 AM
Comment #403183
It is impossible to lift up everyone and everything without bending over and getting jammed in the arse.
Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2016 1:58 PM

Didn’t use to be. Use to be we floated all boats Royal. Use to be a rising tide would lift all boats back in the days of FDR to Truman to Eisenhower to JFK. Use to be we declared war on poverty not on poor people. Use to be “We built great big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases, and cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy.” (quote from Will McAvoy, HBO Newsroom)

Use to be… but that was then.

Perhaps you are right giving the current sentiment of the majority of people in this country Royal, you included.

Once we adopted the phrase “a rising tide floats all boats” to describe free market economics we have found many ships sailed out on the economic tide to other countries. Then we said ’ oh well the rising tide will lift some boats, but others will run aground’

Now we say “It is impossible to lift up everyone and everything without bending over and getting jammed in the arse” primarily due to conservatives, conservative thinking and their economic policies we have suffered the past 30 years.

I know when a country spends more on their military than the next 12 countries combined, and 10 of these countries are friendlies we will not be able to get out of debt. Yet those that tell us to take it up the arse also wants more military spending.

Good job on making government small conservatives.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 11:33 AM
Comment #403184

J2,

I am well aware of our past and it is an absolute certainty that the divide we face today is much deeper, and uglier, than that of our recent past.

You may not want to acknowledge it, but from the very beginning President Obama has chosen to address issues with personal attacks on those who disagree with him. He dismissed deeply held religious beliefs, passionate support of individual rights and legal immigration, on the loss of jobs and hate of those who are different.
He rushed throughVERY divisive legislation knowing half the country disagreed and before they could have their say.
He constantly blames America, the previous administration and ALL on the right, for support and to justify mistakes.
He promotes distrust and hatred of the successful, and dismisses all opposition with claims of racism, bigotry and hatred.
Multiple times he has formed an opinion based solely on race and shared it with the American people, but when the facts come out and say otherwise, he doubles down or leaves it hanging.

That is all divisive and when you combine it with the ‘success at any cost’ desire of his supporters, it gets even uglier.
They claim anti-abortion now equals a deep hatred of women. Support of traditional marriage now equals a hatred of gay folks. Support of the 2nd Amendment now means one supports the murder of innocents.

Now, because Obama is a democrat I do not expect you to agree with any of that. There is no doubt that in your mind you can excuse all of that and it would be pointless for me to think otherwise.
But it doesn’t matter, J2. No matter who is right, or who is wrong, the fact of the matter is that we have become more divided under President Obama and dismissing it as nothing but racism is not going to fix anything.

He11, the more I think about it, the more it seems ‘too perfect’ and maybe Roy is really onto something.

Posted by: kctim at March 3, 2016 12:05 PM
Comment #403185

J2, it is human nature to abuse power for personal gain. It is basic fact that limiting that power will limit the amount of its abuse.

Nobody has suggested ‘we rid our selves of government’ or that there is no need for a ‘social contract.’
That is nothing but hyperbole on your part.

Posted by: kctim at March 3, 2016 12:58 PM
Comment #403186

Good job on making government small conservatives.
Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 11:33 AM

What weird thinking would consider our military as “government”?

At one time we had three branches of government. Is that no longer true?

j2t2 wrote; “Use to be we declared war on poverty not on poor people.”

Has the war on poverty ended? Do we no longer support the poor? When did this occur? When did we win the “war”? Do we have a lower percentage of poor today as compared to 50 years ago? Do we have an increased labor force participation rate? Has a regular increase in the minimum wage eliminated the poor?

If we throw more money at the poor will it make them prosperous? Please provide factual evidence that this works.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2016 1:03 PM
Comment #403188
He dismissed deeply held religious beliefs, passionate support of individual rights and legal immigration, on the loss of jobs and hate of those who are different.

What a bunch of whining this is kctim. You have to take this out of context and assume it was meant for public broadcast to make this erroneous assumption.

>blockquote>He rushed throughVERY divisive legislation knowing half the country disagreed and before they could have their say.

Oh god what a pathetic line of crap, have you been swilling the conservative kool aid again kctim? There is no time limit on doing anything mentioned in the Constitution right? So how can you say it was to fast? Hell how can you even claim the president rushed legislation when he isn’t even part of the Congress? Two words kctim two words, PATRIOT ACT. That was rushed trough Congress. But I guess when your team does it it is healing the divide right?

He constantly blames America, the previous administration and ALL on the right, for support and to justify mistakes.

Well this is vague and generalized enough to be used as fodder for the weak minded conservatives who fall for this nonsense kctim, but it is minor squabbling of little consequence when you compare it to the obstructionist in Congress who have intentionally , well called him a liar at the state of the union address for example. I suppose that was just healing the divide right?

He promotes distrust and hatred of the successful,…

Oh pleeze kctim, such a divider, it should be easy for you to provide some proof of this since it has reached the “hatred level”. Please do so.


and dismisses all opposition with claims of racism, bigotry and hatred.

Usually when you say all it is an exaggeration I can only assume this is but one more of the many exaggerations you use to make the nonsensical extremist talking points of the conservative propagandist. It seems to me you should be looking in the mirror when it comes to hatred my friend, this overly sensitive diatribe just keeps going downhill for you. I am beginning to think you are unable to think clearly on this issue.

Multiple times he has formed an opinion based solely on race and shared it with the American people, but when the facts come out and say otherwise, he doubles down or leaves it hanging.

One again specific kctim, these vague generalizations are just silly exaggerations. While it may have kept the divided divided it sure doesn’t sound like anything different than what most Americans do on any given issue.


But it doesn’t matter, J2. No matter who is right, or who is wrong, the fact of the matter is that we have become more divided under President Obama and dismissing it as nothing but racism is not going to fix anything.

It does matter kctim, because it appears to me you were divided before Obama was elected and are projecting onto others the hatred you own. Now not being elected to office you can get away with the emotional response to not getting your guy elected but those in Congress who use these same fallacies need to be called out for their part in conning you and many others into believing this tripe. The obstructionist in Congress, the conservative propagandist, movement leaders and billionaire owners of these people need to share in the “dividing” of the country. The constant myths misinformation half truths and outright lies emanating from the reich wing propaganda machine should be given the same scrutiny you give to Obama on this issue.

While we are on it lets get this recent conservative ruse out in the open. You guys are good at claiming “dividing” as an issue but it seems it is self serving to those on the right. In this day of “politically correctness” I guess you guys may just be overly sensitive to what is being said but it seems to me it is just another strategy devised to keep you boys down on the farm.

Take a deep breath clear the mind and ask yourself if perhaps you are being led on with this silliness. I mean politics is about difference kctim. Using this “dividing” thing as a means to be an obstructionist in Congress to the detriment of the country is wrong.

As an example lets say you were told by these movement leaders that because Obama worked out an agreement with Iran it divided the country. As the Israeli caucus of the US Congress wanted our boys to go to war with Iran it created a riff in the plans of the extremist in Israel. So they paid some of our extremist Senators to write a letter directly to Iran bypassing Obama, using some faux constitutional issue to do so, telling Iranian officials we wouldn’t uphold the agreement later. Now your team tells you the divider is Obama but you need to remember who the real dividers are kctim.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 1:25 PM
Comment #403190

Right kctim. Take most any issue. We’ve had the depression/recession with not much recovery and few good jobs. Also, we have this supposedly failing infrastructure; bridges, highways, port facilities and so on …

Many folks, including me, have yammered away as to why the ‘establishment’ didn’t establish some kind of work program a la the CCC or WPA of years gone by. Been at lot of, you guessed it, talk about spending some money to fix up things. Just this week I heard some pol recommending a fixerupper program.

Do recall that the ‘too big to fails’ were fixed up.

There is a reason. It’s globalism and corpocracy. In order for the US to compete in the globalised economy US wages must come down to some acceptable level. Note how determined the establishment is to hold the min wage down. Note how the borders are open to immigrates needing jobs, most often lo lo paying jobs. Note how nothing has been donw about visa overstays, Cubans coming thru Honduras an up thru Mexico, Syrians and ME refugees being settled across the US, even as the Syrians request to be secured in an area close to Syria so they can return home at some point.

Fewest in the workforce since the 60’s, US wages have gone down over the last 20 years. I feel like a Rubio here.

Your wages won’t be going up any time soon. The flat lady has yet to sing. And, remember, you heard it hear on WB first. Your wages are going on down. We’ve years to go IMO.

Romney has taken a h-u-g-e shot at Trump which should serve to kick Trump’s numbers up 8% or so.

I’ve had it with political parties picking the folks who will be allowed to compete for elected office.

The GOP may try to do an end run on Trump at the convention and put Romeny in the catbird seat. If that happens I do hope Trump will run as a 3rd party candidate.

What with so many disgruntled voters here is a most opportune time to start a 3rd party. It would be similar to the Founding of the country in that the Founder’s knew their enemy and thus knew how to protect themselves thru a strong Constitution. We have watched the parties operate and know how to Found a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att designed to reject special interest money and attain REAL CFR. This could be done with unbreakable rules at the founding to include rules that prevent the party from ever being co-opted by corpocracy and so on - - -

The only way we can defeat the establishment, corpocracy, is to fight fire with fire thru a new 3rd party.

((Clinton won’t commit to a minimum wage. Why not? Corpocracy))

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 3, 2016 2:28 PM
Comment #403191
What weird thinking would consider our military as “government”?

The weird thinking that knows when we pay taxes to the government a large portion of said taxes go to support the military Royal.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 3, 2016 2:35 PM
Comment #403193

OH, BOY j2t2, what a gem. Taxes pay for the military and thus they are “government”.

Hmmm…taxes pay for researching the mating of sea turtles and toilets in national parks. Guess they are government as well.

OH, Well…we should just let j2t2 alone in his belief that what government pays for becomes “government” itself.

Should he and his fellow libbies have their way, our homes, autos and bank accounts will soon be “government”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2016 2:58 PM
Comment #403197

Let me be blunt: A Silent Majority isn’t a majority. First, it may be something people merely imagine to be present, like the imagined majorities for Romney and McCain before them.

Second, though, if people really do believe something in the majority, yet they do not go through with it… well, maybe they’re waiting for something, or maybe they’re holding back because there’s something they want that conflicts with it, but either way, they are no majority in the way that counts.

The only majorities that count in a democratic republic are those who show up to vote, and show up all the time. That’s what I keep on telling my friends on the left, and that’s what the Republicans have demonstrated, in their back-handed way, in getting their people elected to the House.

The long and the short of it is this: democracy is not a cure for what ails society, it’s a long term treatment, a regimen of constant corrections, errors admitted, candidates reassessed, etc.

If there is something bad about the government you don’t like, you have two choices: do nothing aside from complain, or do something, and be prepared to follow up on what you’ve done, if you want it to stay done, or be corrected if it was a mistake.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 3, 2016 4:34 PM
Comment #403203

When is a “majority” not a “majority”?

When Mr. Daugherty declares it isn’t.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2016 7:11 PM
Comment #403204

Largest voter turnout in what - forever.

I expect the GOP to do whatever is necessary to relieve Trump of the nomination.

When they do, I hope Trump will try to quick quick start up a 3rd party. He already has field workers in sufficient number.

I believe he has way more than enough voters/supporters to win the general election as a 3rd party guy. He very well might be able to pull it off as a write in candidate.

I’ll keep my vote on hot standby for him.

Also, hopeful we can get thru to Jan without the world blowing up, falling apart or just sputtering to a stop, as in refusing to turn.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 3, 2016 7:41 PM
Comment #403205

Questions arising as to whether Hillary shared a password with one or more folks as a way to get info from a classified system to her personal server. MAN, that oughta getcha just about life…

Say, does she still have a security clearance? Could her DOS job have been so important she gets to hold her clearance for some period of time after leaving office.

If she doesn’t have a clearance then how would she ever get one after this email debacle?

And, what would happen if the ‘establishment’ refused a clearance to Trump?

If allowed to be President would the GOP treat Trump better or worse than Obama?

I really would like to hear Hillary’s speech to GS …

Inquiring WB minds want to know …
Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 3, 2016 8:11 PM
Comment #403206

Cruse was asked what he would do to bring jobs and mfctring back to Detroit. Cruse replied something like ‘Detroit used to be (real rich) . . but left wing politicians over the last 50 years have decimated Detroit.

Well, no, Cruse. Globalism took down Detroit along with the rest of the USA.

Newt Gringich was on FOX tonight stating how bad Trump was and how he wanted to tear up globalism and all the work the ‘establishement’ has done since WWII. He stated that he worked hard on getting NAFTA up and running.

Right. And we’ve been running this $500B and $50B trade deficit with China and Mex year over year since NAFTA went into effect.

Trump says he wants to rewrite the trade agreements and get a better deal and so on - - -

He can’t. He can’t build a wall, even if he agrees to pay for it. He can’t do anything that cost money. We all know that.

But, he can be a stick in the eye of the corpocracy. He can refuse OMNIBUS legislation where nobody reads the bills and so on - - -

He could spend 4 years ginning up a 3rd party. Only Trump knows what he would do. He doesn’t reveal anything about what he really might do or how he would do it. Pretty amazing.

How tired are you of watching young people spend a $100k on college and can’t find a decent job at the end?

A stick in the eye is getting off way to easy, IMO.

Otherwise - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 3, 2016 10:45 PM
Comment #403210

Roy, your words are not falling on deaf ears, my friend. While I may not see how interwoven and deep it is as you do, I can definitely see something is off and I am willing to give it some thought.

J2, as I said, you disagree and will create strawmen to dismiss those you disagree with. Add that in with what I said about the left resorting to deflection and insults and it would appear that I have hit the trifecta.
Your attempt to feign ignorance of the facts, whether or not you agree with the conclusions people draw from those facts, did surprise me some, though.

Agree or disagree as to who is to blame, the simple fact is that we are dangerously divided, that divide is growing, and it needs to be addressed before it reaches critical mass.

On a side note: As I have mentioned to you before, it would serve you well to debate the person, and not the stereotypes, talking-points and strawmen in your head. The ‘your people,’ ‘your team’ and ‘movement leaders’ nonsense does not work with me. I am my own person, I can tell you what I agree or disagree with and exactly why.

Your Iran scenario is a perfect example of what I am talking about. We don’t have to pretend that I was told something because I have actually taken the time to read up on it and come to my own conclusions: I agree with the overall hope of the agreement, but I disagree with many of our concessions and what President Obama believes will be the end result. But, as I have stated MANY times before, since I am not privy to the same intel as he is, he gets the benefit of the doubt and I will trust his judgement.

Toss all that hatred, racist, sexist, bigotry, and brainwashed nonsense BS to the side and go back to facing facts.

Posted by: kctim at March 4, 2016 9:41 AM
Comment #403212
OH, BOY j2t2, what a gem. Taxes pay for the military and thus they are “government”.

Just one reason Royal.

Hmmm…taxes pay for researching the mating of sea turtles and toilets in national parks. Guess they are government as well.

I don’t know Royal do these turtles report to the commander in chief who just happens to be the president who is the head of the administrative branch of the government?

OH, Well…we should just let j2t2 alone in his belief that what government pays for becomes “government” itself.

Should he and his fellow libbies have their way, our homes, autos and bank accounts will soon be “government”.

Such nonsense Royal, this illogical deduction to what I said is a bit scary. I’m wondering if the cock fight that was the repub debate last night has left you a bit shaken up.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 4, 2016 11:55 AM
Comment #403213
Your attempt to feign ignorance of the facts, whether or not you agree with the conclusions people draw from those facts, did surprise me some, though.

And you seem to be confused about what are vague generalities and facts kctim. I notice you haven’t bothered to elaborate on any of these vague assertions instead you attack the messenger.

Agree or disagree as to who is to blame, the simple fact is that we are dangerously divided, that divide is growing, and it needs to be addressed before it reaches critical mass

Finally, a decent response, thank you kctim. The realization that it takes two sides to be divided is refreshing to see from you. The sad part is I think this division will get worse before it gets better, The billionaires have played the people well so I doubt either side will give up much when they are so pumped up believing they are right. I would say this round and the next few go to the billionaires.

SO we seem to be seeing a mini version of this divide in the repub primary fight. I mean when it gets to seeing who hand size is larger in a political debate its time to stop and realize where the problem may be worse don’t you think.

As I have mentioned to you before, it would serve you well to debate the person, and not the stereotypes, talking-points and strawmen in your head. The ‘your people,’ ‘your team’ and ‘movement leaders’ nonsense does not work with me. I am my own person, I can tell you what I agree or disagree with and exactly why.

But kctim, you are a part of one side or the other no matter how much you would like to think you aren’t. It takes both sides to make the whole as well. What we are talking about is the cancerous growth in the whole, if you will. So just like your vague assertions that Obama is the problem when it comes to dividing the people and your version of proof it comes from the side not just one person that is part of the side. One dissenter is hardly a divide after all.


But, as I have stated MANY times before, since I am not privy to the same intel as he is, he gets the benefit of the doubt and I will trust his judgement

But that wasn’t the issue kctim. It was the response by certain congressmen who went way beyond the limit in their efforts to attack Obama. Many on your team cheered these guys and many also said with such absolutism that the Iran agreement was appeasement and so on. This vicious sabotaging of the administrations treaties wasn’t Obama’s fault yet many blame him. You seem to have taken the higher ground now and that is a good sign but how many others here on WB or in the country could say the same. This scenario plays out regularly especially when the leaders of the Congress have expressly told us it is their intent to stop Obama at any cost. Yet those that voted these extremist into office will not naysay them, instead they encourage them. No way to run a country and one certainly cannot expect the president to appease these zealots.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html


Toss all that hatred, racist, sexist, bigotry, and brainwashed nonsense BS to the side and go back to facing facts

I would agree this is the answer to the divided country problem kctim but I think you are directing this message to the messenger not those that are some combination of hateful, racist, sexist, bigoted, and/or brainwashed. Perhaps it is time for those guys to lighten up a bit. Calling them out for this may help them to realize what they are doing. Staying silent only encourages them don’t you think?

When one takes a message to a group of political volunteers looking for votes for their candidate, a message that was meant for their ears, an explanation of how the candidate feels some of the potential voters may feel about the globalization of the country and broadcasts it as some kind of insult, then blames the candidate for dividing the country it is time to take a breath and lighten up. Yet you use it as “facts” to show Obama is dividing the country. IMHO it is those propagandist who push this nonsense as “facts” that divide the country.

Of course the problem goes deeper, it is the grandiose self importance that the propagandist instills in the individual and the group with the misinformation they regularly dose the population with than seems to cause many to believe they are on the right side when in fact the laws their side has enacted has hurt the country while enriching the few. Your suggestion of facing facts would certainly help but those that must face the facts seem to choose their “facts” and double down on the faulty legislation, application of principle and /or ideology. Of course this benefits the billionaires and continues to divide us into individuals instead of a united group.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 4, 2016 12:46 PM
Comment #403216

Kctim, just weigh the gravity of this war the corpocracy is waging against the middle class.

What about a corpocracy that would pay companies to pick up and locate overseas, taking some 2-3M of the best jobs with them? The corpocracy talks about millions being lifted out of poverty. I agree that moving companies and jobs overseas has helped in that regard. I’m also aware that China has stiff armed foreign corporations trying to horn in on Chinese business. The price of doing any real business with the Chinese means you have to give up your proprietary manufacturing processes. China uses cyber warfare to get what is not readily given to them.

So, they relocate millions of jobs overseas while supporting some 12 million (nobody knows) immigrants to come here and compete for what few jobs remained. This, while telling the citizenry that they were going to get immigration under control. Even built a few miles of fence, talked about implementing E-verify and so on …

So, now the citizenry/taxpayers are providing subsistence to some 45 million folks as there are no jobs for them.

And, they don’t want to raise the minimum wage. They bail out the too big to fail but won’t put a robust jobs program together like the CCC or WPA. The Memorial Bridge in DC will have to be closed in DC in 5 years if not repaired and there is infrastructure across this country like that.

What about a corpocracy that will bring in immigrants from the ME without proper vetting and assimilation. The corpocracy doesn’t give a whit that some citizens are killed by Islamic state actors. The Corpocracy doesn’t give a whit as to who comes across the Southern border, how many citizens they murder/harm or how many tons of drugs arrive weekly.

The Corpocracy is continuing their work on globalisation. They have put the NAU in place in piecemeal to the extent possible. Of late they have admitted to lying about securing the border.

The Corpocracy is going to do what they believe is required to streamline commerce, transporation, security, law, wages and so on to level the playing field for economic globalisation. Meaning that US worker wages are way to high, must come down if the US is to be competitive in their globalised economy.
Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve…

Posted by: roy ellis at March 4, 2016 3:40 PM
Comment #403218

Additionally, there is the loss of sovereignty given up to the WTO, World Court, unable to control our borders, and so on …

Posted by: roy ellis at March 4, 2016 3:47 PM
Comment #403219

How Mitt made his money.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829

Posted by: roy ellis at March 4, 2016 4:21 PM
Comment #403228

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/03/the-story-of-the-wildest-party-in-white-house-history/

I believe Jackson would have been a Trump supported

CNN just had a guy on who accused Trump of being a racist as he tosses protesters out of his rallies.

I understand the need for protesters to get before the cameras any way they can but, are political rallies the
place to make their case?

Rallies are for people to go and LISTEN to candidates make their pitch. I don’t agree they should be used by protesters to get some free air time.

If they weren’t removed from the crowd it seems they could be very disruptive. Does calling for their removal make one a racist?

Of course, the protesters are going to get all they can out it for their cause; ‘he hit me’, he spit on me, he called me names’ and so on - - -

Media must believe its ok if they invite talking heads on the program to make the point that kicking protesters out is racism.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 5, 2016 12:08 PM
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