Third Party & Independents Archives

The Colorado Shooting and Silence

Does silence allow accusations of guilt to fill the void? Rubio and Jeb Bush have not said much regarding the Colorado shooting. Many, or at least some, right to life groups have been loud and clear in their denouncements of the attack that killed a policeman, an Iraq War veteran, and a mother of two. Less so the GOP establishment.

Cruz was the first of GOP candidates to respond. Have Ryan and McConnell said anything substantial as of yet? Of course it's a media trap, but 3 people lost their lives. Yes, Dems will and are leaping all over this, and the Colorado shooting has created martyrs at the altar of abortion, or the right to choose.

It doesn't matter. You defend a nation of laws and you condemn lawlessness - especially violent lawlessness - and you work tirelessly to change those laws that you passionately disagree with. Which is exactly what the GOP has done, in large part at least, since Roe v. Wade.

Because if you remain silent, then you give the reason to those who imply or state that any passionate criticism of Planned Parenthood has created the environment where a deranged individual would otherwise be at home or work, happily going about his business. And not rampaging through several locations fueled by incoherent ramblings.

Just as Bobby Jindal suggested filling the churches and praying after the shootings in Charleston, prayer and a rejection of violence whatever the mental state of the attacker, not silence, is the answer to the attack in Colorado. And just like that shooting in Charleston, blaming context solves nothing. Unless the solution you are seeking is to silence critics of abortion.

That means knowing you will be attacked for merely being a critic of Planned Parenthood, even as you condemn the shooting. On the other hand, hoping the issue will fade, leaves a silence that will be filled by those who precisely wish to silence you.

Posted by AllardK at November 30, 2015 10:29 AM
Comments
Comment #400978
Does silence allow accusations of guilt to fill the void?

No. Of course not. Just as it is absurd to expect every single Muslim to scream their denunciation of every Islamist terror attack, it is also absurd to expect right-to-life groups to do the same when one of their own commits violence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 30, 2015 4:09 PM
Comment #400990

Wait for more information.

Recall that this guy had no electricity in that trailer of his. We may assume he was not well connected to cable and the details of news of the day.

The reason we worry about terrorism potentially from overseas is that we fear coordination. A crazy man in a trailer is not the point of the spear. While he can be deadly dangerous, we don’t expect follow up on a nationwide or worldwide basis.

We can call this domestic terrorism and all should condemn the behavior. In general, we should judge behavior and not the status of the perp.

If we take the Muslim analogy, the problem is that when a Muslim terrorist acts, we too often hear about root causes. People who should know better talk videos that set them into murderous rage or insults that explain.

So let’s break it into its parts. Anybody who does not condemn this man’s behavior or tries to explain it in terms of his grievance is a pinhead. His evil behavior should not silence debate on either side. If you thought abortion was bad before, you should not change your mind because this nut case broke the law. If you advocated violence before, you were wrong then and remain wrong now. It might be a good time to reflect.

Posted by: C&J at November 30, 2015 11:36 PM
Comment #400991

Has anyone heard anything about this being a bank robbery that happened a quarter-mile away from the planned parenthood business?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 30, 2015 11:58 PM
Comment #400999

Allard makes a good point regardless of one’s political position on PP. The sad thing we saw this past week is the silence from repub candidates on the shooting at the Colorado Springs PP. Many think silence means approval and the candidates approve of the shooting at PP because of political ideology. Not a leader in the group of repub candidates instead they deflect and start blaming dems!

Must be hard for the candidates when they cannot gauge the reaction from many in their party that have spread so much misinformation about the evil PP. I wonder how long before these politicians wake up and realize their rhetoric inflames many and all it takes is one on the edge, as this shooter seems to be, to act out violently.

Cruz comes out with many diversions but stops short of condemning the shootings at PP. The weakness of character and lack of moral judgement he displays is world class. Imagine the sickness necessary to use such lines as it was a “transgendered leftist activist” and “most violent felons are Dems” as a response to the shooting.

I wonder if the propagandist who doctored the PP films on baby parts feels any remorse for their lies that seem to be an issue for the shooter. The ends justifies the means for many of these types of people but their lies backfired this time, IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 1, 2015 12:54 PM
Comment #401001

The saddest thing we saw this past week is people once again using such a tragedy to attack their fellow Americans in order to push a political agenda.

Posted by: kctim at December 1, 2015 1:01 PM
Comment #401018

The saddest thing we saw this past week is people once again giving a pass to people who praise anti-abortion extremists.

Not one of the Republican candidates can bring themselves to admit that their demonizing rhetoric of Planned Parenthood could have influenced this very unstable person and then offering an apology if in fact it did.

I don’t believe anyone here has given that pass to this individual but the side stepping by some of Republican candidates is reprehensible and should be called out. Anyone?

Posted by: Speak4all at December 1, 2015 5:25 PM
Comment #401020

could have influenced this very unstable person and then offering an apology if in fact it did.

People, especially politicians, should not base comments on ‘could haves’ and ‘ifs,’ Speaks. That is called ‘jumping to conclusions’ and refraining from doing so is not ‘giving a pass’ to anybody.

Robert Dear is responsible for his actions. Not Planned Parenthood, not some videos, and definitely not those who simply speak out against Planned Parenthood.

Posted by: kctim at December 1, 2015 5:53 PM
Comment #401026

Speaks

The Colorado shooter lived in a trailer w/o electricity and far from cable TV. It would have been hard for this guy to have a lot of exposure to their rhetoric.

Posted by: C&J at December 1, 2015 6:47 PM
Comment #401035

All the more reason why this guy might have been robbing a bank. It’s not beyond the pail for people to get caught in a crossfire between a bank robber and police. A convenient excuse for cops killing pedestrians would be to blame it on a deranged maniac acting out against a controversial subject.

I’ll admit I may be wrong on this, but it’s been done before. Think Waco. Think Idaho.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 1, 2015 7:56 PM
Comment #401053

It would appear that Robert Dear has had experience previous to this instance in causing problems for Planned Parenthood. Wonder where he got those ideas from then? One does not need electricity or cable to absorb the vitriolic hatred that was used to demonize Planned Parenthood, this is evidenced by more than one insinuation by commenters here that they don’t listen to any of that stuff but somehow hold the exact same beliefs that are propagated by “that stuff”. “That stuff” being right wing hair on fire crazy talk that might be responsible for causing unstable individuals to act out the “crazy talk”. It has been reported that during the police interview he said “no more baby parts”. Wonder where on earth he got that from?

Posted by: Speak4all at December 2, 2015 10:04 AM
Comment #401054

Maybe he got ‘that stuff’ from Floyd Lee Corkins?

Posted by: kctim at December 2, 2015 10:31 AM
Comment #401055

Who got what stuff? My insinuation wasn’t that Dear got “that stuff” but that commenters here say that. Could you be one of them?

Posted by: Speak4all at December 2, 2015 10:41 AM
Comment #401067

Speaks

Where a person gets a particular idea is hard to say. He reportedly said “no more baby parts.” It is a leap to say that is what drove him to violence and even more so to imply a source.

Recall that guy who attacked the Family Research Council carrying hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a bag of Chick-Fil-A. He said very clearly and repeatedly that his goal was to kill as many people as possible and smear the Chick-Fil-A on their dead faces as a political statement. He said that he was inspired directly by the Southern Poverty Law Center that had put them on a list of “hate groups.”

Southern Poverty Law Center did not apologize or even take them off the hit list. Their logic was they were not responsible for a nut. They were right.

Posted by: C&J at December 2, 2015 2:33 PM
Comment #401069

Mr. Dear was just a really bad guy with a long history of violence, pot smoking and trouble making. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Posted by: C&J at December 2, 2015 2:46 PM
Comment #401074

So he was just a really bad guy that happened to use some of the same words that were used about Planned Parenthood in some phony videos and he had a history of acting out against Planned Parenthood. Got it. Nothing to see here, move along!

I won’t defend the assertion of the SPLC and the events that took place years ago.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 2, 2015 3:22 PM
Comment #401086

Nobody here is defending either acts of violence. That is the point.

Posted by: C&J at December 2, 2015 4:35 PM
Comment #401089

And nobody is defending the fact that Planned Parenthood has been singled out as an evil organization that needs to be shutdown through the use of proven false videos that could have instigated this violence. I believe that is also a point.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 2, 2015 4:44 PM
Comment #401095

No more than the Southern Poverty list caused the violence at FRC. Or anti Christian hate caused the violence in Oregon. Or BLM hatred caused cop killings.

We rightly condemn those who advocate violence and those who commit it. Advocating through peaceful means is not in the same category. Conflating the two is itself a step closer to advocating violence.

Posted by: C&J at December 2, 2015 5:09 PM
Comment #401096

Conflation might be in the eye of the beholder. No defense from me for anyone that resorts to violence as a vehicle to demonstrate their advocacy.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 2, 2015 5:19 PM
Comment #401121

CJ, would you consider what the Republican candidates said about Planned Parenthood as “advocating through peaceful means”? Now they didn’t tell anyone to shoot up Planned Parenthood facilities but they did not specifically ask that their supporters should not take violent actions against Planned Parenthood, did they? They use false video evidence to portray Planned Parenthood clinics as evil and wanting “baby parts”, didn’t they? And they do all of this under the guise of garnering support for their Presidential candidacy, don’t they? This is what I have a problem with, they use rhetoric and false videos to pump the right wing into a frenzy regarding Planned Parenthood and then when some nut shoots up a clinic and then in the interview says “no more baby parts” they, you and the rest of their supporters try to say “what”, “what”, “they didn’t tell any nut to do that”. Despicable denial.

In regards to the SPLC list, it is not an apples to apples comparison. While SPLC may have their reasons for releasing a list like that, they are not running for the highest office in our country. That does not mean they shouldn’t be held accountable for producing a list that some nut might use to act out violence. Using that reasoning, the Republican candidates that demonized Planned Parenthood should be held accountable or at least denounce the violence and remind people that they would hope that their rhetoric did not contribute to that. They don’t and won’t.

And now we have San Bernadino, 14 dead and 17 injured. We should all be sad about this and the other 354 shootings that have killed 4 or more people just this year alone.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 3, 2015 12:43 PM
Comment #401125

Well Speaks ISIS did say they were going to attack here in the U.S. now didn’t they. What are you going to do blow your horn for more gun control just like Obama and Hillary did?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 3, 2015 4:39 PM
Comment #401127

Speaks

They did not call for violence. They believe that abortion kills babies. They expressed this idea.

PP was selling fetal tissue, aka baby parts. The video catch them discussing it. Abortion supporters say it was edited and out of context, but I find it hard to think of the context where so causally & jovially discussing selling fetal tissue could be interpreted favorably.

Was SPLC held accountable? They were not. In fact, they did not even alter their behaviors. I also do not think they should have been held accountable, except to have their foolishness exposed. You can take solace in that some Republican candidates have been exposed. Whether or not this is good depends on your values.

Re San Bernadino - I will condemn anybody who wants to blame all Muslims for this violence. If it turns out to have been Jihad, I will also advocate that we need to be vigilant against Jihadis.

Posted by: C&J at December 3, 2015 5:43 PM
Comment #401129

I can find no solace in “some Republicans candidates have been exposed”. I don’t think they care one whit about that. They are out to be elected or re-elected, that is all. I am more concerned with how you and I discuss these outcomes. I am glad to hear that you do not denounce all Muslims for the violence in San Bernadino. I don’t think your part of the discussion regarding the Colorado shooting expressed much other than an agreement that their silence was just fine and that you abhor violence. I agree, I just wish I could find some sincerity in the approach you have towards the Republicans that fueled the tire fire that has become part of the extremism we see in our country. Planned Parenthood has continued to deny that they sell fetal tissue but you seem to think otherwise. The Republican smear videos seem to have done their job with you. Thanks for discussing.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 3, 2015 5:58 PM
Comment #401132

Speaks

I do not connect the killing in Colorado with the various opinions of Republicans on abortion, just as I do not connect Democratic support for Black Lives Matter with murder of police, although in that case the connection between violence and the rhetoric i closer.

The “smear videos” were fundamentally accurate. PP did not deny that they took money for fetal tissue. They discontinued the practice after the videos, which indicates that they did it before.

I do not really have a problem with the selling of tissue for research or health purposes. The problem, revealed by the videos, was the attitude of some PP.

Posted by: C&J at December 3, 2015 8:53 PM
Comment #401138

CJ, whatever helps you make it through the night. Sleep well but live with your misconceptions also. I do not contend that all Republicans or conservatives connect the Colorado killings to any specific rhetoric, but their silence is deafening. Your attempts to connect BLM to this discussion seems like a way of saying “well they do it too”. Thanks again for an honest discussion.

Posted by: Speak4all at December 4, 2015 9:32 AM
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