Third Party & Independents Archives

It's Not Up to the Governors...

In the last 24 hours, more than have of state Governors have rejected the settlement of incoming Syrian refugees in their states. It’s a very emotional and sensitive topic, but the bottom line is the final decision is made under the president’s purview.

While it seems entirely insensitive to make this decision, the risk is incredibly high to allow the possibility of an ISIS attack in the US, potentially killing more innocent Americans. Massachusetts governor has joined this group of Governors against the settling of refugees, remembering the individuals responsible for the Boston bombing less than 3 years ago were also refugees. Can you really hold it against him? It's truly a sad and sensitive topic.

It's unfathomable to imagine what these innocent people in Syria have endured, but the decisions of 27 Governors thus is an explicit display of the fear, and they've all made it clear the decisions are based on the safety of the people in their states. Governor Charlie Baker (MA) said, "My view on this is that the safety and security of the people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is my highest priority," he added, "I'm always going to be at least willing to hear what the federal government has to say...Hearing what they have to say doesn't mean saying yes."

But the effort of all of the Governors could be fore nothing, because at the end of the day, the final decision is made by the federal government...ultimately the president. So what happens when more than half of the governors have expressed grave concern over the issue?

Posted by MichaelMears at November 17, 2015 7:28 PM
Comments
Comment #400656

MM, this is President Obama’s response to the fear being propagated by cowardly politicians. I concur with his assessment.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2015 10:26 AM
Comment #400662

Mears, while the final decision may indeed be made by the President, a good President would listen to the people on such an issue.

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2015 11:34 AM
Comment #400664

Tim,

“… a good President would listen to the people on such an issue.”

And then, after listening, he would tell them they’re being babies, and that isn’t who Americans are, or what America stands for.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 18, 2015 1:41 PM
Comment #400665

Rocky, I guess he would do that if his intention was to ignore the will of the people and purposely divide Americans amongst themselves. Especially if his stated goals are to change who Americans are and transform what America stands for.

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2015 1:50 PM
Comment #400666

WATCH: A Conversation With Teens in Training as ISIS Suicide Bombers

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/afghanistan-pakistan/isis-in-afghanistan/watch-a-conversation-with-teens-in-training-as-isis-suicide-bombers/

The president and many in his party have totally lost their minds. There is no moral or legal imperative that compels the United States to bring possible terrorists to our shores.

The contemplated act of resettling Syrian refugees here is outrageous and will not be tolerated.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 2:22 PM
Comment #400667

If “the people” were listened to we would:

Still have laws banning inter-racial marriage.

Still have segregation through out our lives.

Still have separate drinking fountains for whites only.

Still have “Jim Crow” tests for voting.

I could go on and on. I will take Presidents and legislators that use their positions to better our society, “the people” be damned.

I see you still haven’t abandoned your goal of making dishonest and untruthful radical claims about our President. You and the other extremists should be ashamed.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2015 2:29 PM
Comment #400669

I expect that the Syrian refugees will be used as a political football for a while and then this will pass and we will be as America has always been, “Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door”. Thank goodness.

Seems as though our country has had a problem with toleration for a very long time.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2015 2:50 PM
Comment #400673

Tim,

“Especially if his stated goals are to change who Americans are and transform what America stands for.”

If turning these people away in their time of need is what America now stands for I don’t want to be called an American.

We created this mess, we are the cause of their despair, and yet we’re going to be weenies about this?

America, grow a pair and do the right thing.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 18, 2015 3:25 PM
Comment #400674

speaks

As I said earlier: “a good President would listen to the people on such an issue.

Segregating Americans is not the same issue as bringing so-called refugees into the country by the tens of thousands.

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2015 3:32 PM
Comment #400675

The true test will be time. All we have to do is wait. If
Obama and the Democratics in favor of accepting these Syrian asylum seekers are correct then we will have (a) Syrians waiting to be repatriated when their civil war ends, as we do with Cubans, or (b) we will have 250,000 new citizens who believe, support, and obey in the U.S. Constitution and have been assimilated.

Now, if they’re wrong we’re going to see large groups of people being horrifically killed again and again.

Only time will tell because they’re coming here whether we want them here or not! What’s stopping them? That’s not a rhetorical question, folks.

What’s stopping them?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 18, 2015 3:36 PM
Comment #400677

The invitation on the Statue of Liberty is not a suicide pact Speaks.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 3:40 PM
Comment #400678

Rocky, IS created this mess and terrorism is the cause of the despair muslims face today. Being cautious is not turning these people away in their time of need. Putting the safety of your own people in jeopardy should never be an option. Especially when it’s a political one.

If putting your fellow Americans second is what America now stands for, I don’t want to be called an American.

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2015 3:57 PM
Comment #400679

So far, OObama has been in charge of the worst recession recovery in our history.

He has been instrumental in assisting Iran in securing nuclear weapons.

He has further destabilized the Middle East.

His lack of leadership and resolve has encouraged ISIL, Chinese and Russian military adventures.

He has weakened our economic future with an additional $10 Trillion of national debt.

His policies have added millions of Americans to the welfare roles.

He has weakened our nation’s local police forces.

He has caused our allies to be suspicious of our intentions and to view the US as untrustworthy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 4:22 PM
Comment #400681

The number one priority of our national government and the president is to keep Americans safe. Is allowing thousands of impossible to vet Syrians into our country an exercise of presidential diligence or presidential folly?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 4:51 PM
Comment #400682

Well, sorry to cause all of the hyper ventilating, if I did. How about we just leave it at you guys can have your concerns and I can have mine. Now your outlandish, untruthful comments regarding our President is something I can do nothing about except to congratulate you for succumbing to the wants of extreme radicals to divide our country. I will not participate in that and don’t even care to attempt to refute your lies and deceit but shall just mark that up to your 1st Amendment rights in action. Albeit a somewhat dysfunctional employment of those rights.

I’m with you on this one Rocky, I just don’t understand why these tough guys are afraid of little old Hillary Clinton and orphans and widows and the “war on Christmas and so many other boogeyman stories that are regurgitated from the fear produced by some websites or news stories they visit.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2015 4:51 PM
Comment #400683

Spin away Speak…we have come to expect it when you have no reasonable rebuttal.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 4:57 PM
Comment #400686

Using your spin nonsense again? Also noted your childish spelling of our President’s name. That’s so cute. Kind of like watching a 2 year old try to eat with a spoon for the first time and ending up with their food all over them. So cute. Rebuttal to you can be a waste of time sometimes, so you’ll just have to take me with a grain of salt. Bon appetit. Je suis Paris.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2015 5:12 PM
Comment #400690


Widows and Orphans

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2015 5:25 PM
Comment #400691

Thanks for the video link kctim. The end of civilization in Europe is nearly at hand.

Will we wake up in time here in the United States?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 5:55 PM
Comment #400696

The House is about to pass a bill which will require more vetting of refugees from Syria. Obama has declared that he will veto any such bill that reaches his desk.

A veto of extra security measures at this time is Oobama’s way of informing Americans that their safety and lives don’t matter much.

What a great declaration for Democrat contenders for the presidency to defend.

I am ever more convinced, with each reckless proclamation coming from the mouth of Oobama, that he is unfit to lead and incompetent or unwilling to uphold his oath of office.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2015 7:22 PM
Comment #400699
The Left, mainly orchestrated by Zionist interests, is destroying our countries from the inside.

The above are the words of the individual who created the video shared by kctim. Is this really the sentiment that we want to endorse? Twice in the video are excerpts of people claiming that Jews are behind a conspiracy to diversify Europe.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 18, 2015 9:05 PM
Comment #400700

Tim,

The site you chose has “sponsored links” with articles that include things Christians should know about Putin, and a new treatment for erectile dysfunction.

Can we be serious?

Does the SS St. Louis ring any bells?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 19, 2015 9:06 AM
Comment #400701

Warren, in what way does that change what such videos show? Do you think they are filming all of this in front of a blue screen or something?

What is happening in these videos is real, Warren. Tens of thousands of ‘moderate’ muslims are marching in the streets calling for the destruction of the countries that welcomed them. Murders, rapes and assaults have exploded.
But you choose to pick through all of that documentation in hopes of finding an opinion you can use to dismiss what people are seeing with their own eyes?

When people talk about the “1%” and evil corporations taking over and enslaving us so they can rule the world, I am not endorsing them when I acknowledge they are taking advantage of government and making money hand over fist.

Why is it you don’t want to address the footage in the video, Warren?

What ever happened to ‘attack the message, not the messenger? It used to be quite popular around here.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 9:41 AM
Comment #400702

Rocky,

If we are going to be serious, the first we should do is not compare 900 people on a boat looking for a home, to tens of thousands of people rejecting and calling for the destruction of the home that has already welcomed them.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 9:59 AM
Comment #400703
in what way does that change what such videos show? Do you think they are filming all of this in front of a blue screen or something?

Marinus van der Lubbe was a real person too. Der Ewige Jude was not shot in front of a Blue Screen either.

It is entirely possible to construct a reasoned argument in favor of caution with regards to these refugees. However, to dispense with those arguments and resort to sensationalism featuring cherry-picked footage is not only dishonest, but it is well beneath your dignity and intellect.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 10:48 AM
Comment #400706

“Sensationalism” and “cherry-picked footage,” Warren? That implies that there has only been one or two rare examples and that they are trying to dishonestly pass them off as the norm. That is not the case and you know it.

Those marches are not spur of the moment strolls that a few radicals decided to go on and shout whatever was on their mind, they are organized events with stated goals that are attended by thousands in the community.
The surge in those crimes is fact, but acknowledging them is cherry-picking and reporting on them is sensationalism?

It has gotten to the point where one has to cherry-pick to not find examples of the mayhem.

This isn’t zooming in on a BLM rally to make it look like it has tons of support. It isn’t taking the actions of one drunk to falsely claim systemic racism. It isn’t lying about the klan to claim intimidation and oppression.

No matter how inconvenient it may be, this is real and it is a problem.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 11:33 AM
Comment #400707

Tim,

Can you tell us for sure and for certain that the attackers in Paris were refugees?
I would submit they were local Europeans.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 19, 2015 11:41 AM
Comment #400708
That implies that there has only been one or two rare examples and that they are trying to dishonestly pass them off as the norm.

Exactly. The vast majority of asylum seekers are interested in assimilating and beginning new lives. You are letting a small number of bad apples spoil the whole cart. We’ve been down this road before.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 11:48 AM
Comment #400709

Rocky,

I can only tell you for sure and certain that the attackers were terrorists.

Can you tell us for sure and for certain that none of the refugees are terrorists? I can’t, and if I am wrong, then the refugees are inconvenienced. What happens if you are wrong?

Warren,

The only way to claim that those are just rare examples is to ignore the thousands that participate in those marches, to ignore the leaders, and to ignore the surge in murders, rapes and violence.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 12:46 PM
Comment #400710
qto ignore the thousands that participate in those marches
Marching is not a crime.
to ignore the leaders
The refugees have no leaders.
to ignore the surge in murders, rapes and violence.
Those claims are false. Now, there has been a spike in crimes committed AGAINST refugees, but to blame the victim in this situation is absolutely insane. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 1:30 PM
Comment #400711

Tim,

“What happens if you are wrong?”

If the terrorists were actually coming, they’re probably already here, and oh, BTW, what’s to stop them even if we don’t allow the refugees to come.

We can do the right thing and allow the refugees shelter, and again, the terrorists are among those they are fleeing, or we can tell them to pound sand, and that, my friend, is about as UN-American as it gets.

I feel only pity for those that are so in fear they will ignore giving help to someone in need.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 19, 2015 1:49 PM
Comment #400712

“Marching is not a crime.”

Nobody claimed it was. What was pointed out though, was that those marches occur often, are pro islam and anti host country, and are attended by thousands of supporters. It is not rare.

“Those claims are false.”

No, they are not, and word play and supposed statistics from one country do not prove them false in any way. Heck, even the link you supplied says otherwise:

“It’s becoming clear that at bottom there is a higher absolute number of criminal cases only because of the increase in number of people living here with the arrival of the refugees,” de Maizière said.

Refugees from Iraq and Syria as well as from the Balkans were also more likely to commit crimes than from other countries of origin.

Even if you accept that the increase in crime is proportional to the increase of people, that does not take away from the fact that crime has increased.

These people are not our victims, and pointing out the need for extreme caution is not blaming anybody.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 2:18 PM
Comment #400714

kctim,

Even if you accept that the increase in crime is proportional to the increase of people, that does not take away from the fact that crime has increased.

Stop and think for a moment about what you are saying instead of making knee jerk reactions. Does it make sense to you to use an increase in the absolute number of crimes to make comparisons? Americans commit far more rapes and murders each year than Eritreans. Does this mean America is more violent than Eritrea?

What was pointed out though, was that those marches occur often, are pro islam and anti host country, and are attended by thousands of supporters.
I am aware of many marches put on by xenophobes and I am aware of counter-marches put on in support of the refugees. I am not aware of many marches that are “pro-islam and anti-host country”. The video montage contained only a paltry sampling of clips and I am unable to confirm any of them despite my searches on Google. Perhaps you can point me to a mainstream media news report that affirms your claim?
Refugees from Iraq and Syria as well as from the Balkans were also more likely to commit crimes than from other countries of origin.
So migrants from elsewhere are even better behaved than the Syrians. What does that prove? Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 3:01 PM
Comment #400715

kctim, it is an exercise in futility to argue with leftists. They will never change their minds no matter how much fact and proof is presented.

Frankly, if it were not well documented by photos, film, and first person testimony I believe many would deny the Nazi murder of millions of Jews and others. Such denial does exist among many Arab and Muslim countries.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 3:02 PM
Comment #400716

RF,

Fine. Show us documentation demonstrating that migrants commit crimes at a rate higher than native Europeans.

So far, kctim is arguing with a montage assembled by an anti-Semite.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 3:08 PM
Comment #400717

Warped, 129 killed and hundreds injured. Woman blows herself up in an apartment in Paris. Threats to the U.S. and other countries by migrants. 1250 migrants in this country with ties to ISIS. 3000+ killed in 4 separate plane crashes into buildings luckily 1 was thwarted by the passengers on 9/11/2001 all done by LEGAL migrants. This is not counting the people killed and injured by the Boston bombers who also were migrants.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 4:15 PM
Comment #400718

Warren, why are you trying to deflect from the facts?

First, we had the parroting of the false Obama claim about the refugees are all ‘orphans and widows.’ The link I posted AND ‘reputable’ news coverage of the trains, boats, marching and camps, all show that is not the case.

I stated that crime has increased and YOUR link says the same thing, but you accuse me of knee jerk reactions because I don’t use ‘rate’ to dismiss the fact that the refugees are responsible for the increase?

“Perhaps you can point me to a mainstream media news report that affirms your claim?”

Nope, they aren’t covering it. You pretty much have to use alternative media sources.

“So migrants from elsewhere are even better behaved than the Syrians. What does that prove?”

It proves that it is better to be safe than sorry.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 4:22 PM
Comment #400719

Today’s anti-refugee crowd is making almost the exact same arguments that were made in the 1930’s, when American denied entry to Jewish refugees. The Jews were accused of being anarchists (the bomb-throwing kind), communists, revolutionaries, and Nazi spies. They were accused of coming here to take away jobs. And they were considered unacceptable simply because they were not Christian.

It is a shameful thing to see Americans turn their backs on those fleeing persecution and poverty. The Syrian refugees in particular are risking their lives. To reject them is a failure on our part of decency and compassion originating in fear and bigotry and cowardice. So much for American Exceptionalism. So much for the pretense of moral superiority.

Posted by: phx8 at November 19, 2015 4:30 PM
Comment #400720

No phx8 it is an exercise in caution. After the Paris killings CAUTION for immigration should be the word of the day. Maybe you, phx8, should take a couple of the Syrian refugees in and shelter and feed them if your so hell bent on letting them in.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 4:36 PM
Comment #400721

How about fixing our Homeless problem here. We have MILLIONS living in poverty here in the U.S. We have Homeless Vets. TAKE CARE OF THEM FIRST, but no Liberals want to add to the problem. How much sense does that make??????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 4:42 PM
Comment #400722

Careful, KAP. I’m getting hammered for simply arguing for stricter entry procedures. I can’t imagine what it would be like if I was saying take none.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2015 5:03 PM
Comment #400725

“According to Solms-Laubach, non-Germans make up roughly 10% of the German population, but they commit more than 25% of the crimes. The only solution, he argues, is that migrants must understand that if they commit crimes in Germany, they will be deported.”

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6668/germany-migrant-crime-wave


“While the media diligently promotes a positive image of the illegal immigrants, painting them as innocent martyrs of bloody regimes, the head of Germany’s police labor union, Rainer Wendt, reveals the gruesome reality of immigrants’ behavior and their ongoing crimes that include raping women and children, other forms of violence, exploitation and slavery. He speaks about the presence of fanatical religious groups among the illegal immigrants that, even in camps, are already fighting for dominance and territory in the EU. Wendt says the newcomers show complete disrespect for German law and German lives.

Meanwhile, the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance now demands that police authorities in EU countries not reveal the race, ethnicity and migration background of criminal perpetrators. It also demands that no media reveal the race of perpetrators.”

- See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/european-resistance-to-immigrants-grows/#sthash.e75VyJD2.dpuf

There are scores of articles Warren.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 5:10 PM
Comment #400726

Warren, I had other links regarding the rising crime rate of asylum seekers in Europe but my post was rejected (for too many links I suppose.)

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 5:11 PM
Comment #400727

I agree tim with the stricter policies on the refugees. I’m just showing that we need to take care of the problems we already have before adding to them. Liberals need to start using the Gray matter between their ears and realize we have problems here with poverty and don’t need to add to the problem.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 5:25 PM
Comment #400728

KAP,
You’d turn down people who are fleeing for their lives because they are poor?

Posted by: phx8 at November 19, 2015 5:48 PM
Comment #400729

Better yet phx8, SAFE ZONE in their own country or neighboring country set up by NATO. Like I said use that Gray matter between your ears. It would be better for them and better for us and the other countries involved in Europe.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 6:00 PM
Comment #400730

“Socioeconomic factors are a popular explanation for immigrants being overrepresented in crime. That is, if you are unemployed, poor and live in an ugly concrete tower in the suburbs, it is entirely in order to rape, mug, assault and murder. But already in the BRA report from 1996 it was said:

“Immigrants’ overrepresentation in crime is not explained by an unfavorable distribution of gender, age and location. Added to this is the fact that immigrant overrepresentation in crime cannot be explained by the fact that immigrants are less fortunate than Swedes in terms of socioeconomic status.”

The approach of many Muslim men is that there is nothing wrong in raping Swedish girls and women. In their culture, the man has every right to dispose of the woman as he sees fit.”

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/a-look-at-statistics-sweden-a-raped-country/

“Sweden’s rape wave has been exported to Denmark. And like the Swedes, the Danes have been kept in the dark about the Trojan Pig in their midst: Muslim immigrants.

The Swedish extreme left-wing media is infamous for pixelating the complexion and hair of foreign criminals and lying about their origin, hiding their identities and names. The media goes out of their way to hide statistics on the horrendous reality of rape and violent crimes in Sweden, a sole contribution by its immigrants and especially Muslim immigrants. Muslim immigrants have made Sweden number 2 in the world. Meaning, the second largest rape nation on earth – after Nigeria.

The socialist libtard government and the media that refuses to educate the public about the realities of Islam and Muslim “culture” are complicit in all these crimes, and by doing nothing to protect the women and children in the country they themselves are criminals.”

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/denmark-astonished-at-1000-muslim-somali-majority-crime-numbers/

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 6:01 PM
Comment #400731

“Turning away orphans, applying a religious test, discriminating against Muslims, slamming the door on every Syrian refugee — that is just not who we are,” Clinton said.

She added: “It would be a cruel irony indeed if ISIS can force families from their homes and then also prevent them from ever finding new ones.”

Hmmm…can one of our liberal friends and Clinton follower please tell us more about these “orphans” we have turned away?

The cruelty is that the civilized world allowed ISIS to force families from their homes. It could have been prevented.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 7:49 PM
Comment #400732

I was listening to the Mark Levin radio show today and he coined a new phrase to describe Donald Trump. He called him a “Blue Collar Billionaire”. Quite appropriate I believe.

Trump connects with tax paying Americans better than any other candidate of either party. Trump speaks plainly and says what many Americans truly believe without all the PC nonsense.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2015 7:58 PM
Comment #400733
Warped, 129 killed and hundreds injured. Woman blows herself up in an apartment in Paris. Threats to the U.S. and other countries by migrants. 1250 migrants in this country with ties to ISIS. 3000+ killed in 4 separate plane crashes into buildings luckily 1 was thwarted by the passengers on 9/11/2001 all done by LEGAL migrants. This is not counting the people killed and injured by the Boston bombers who also were migrants.

And it is absolutely reasonable to exercise extreme caution when considering the applications of Syrian refugees. This is why Obama has instituted an extensive vetting process to do all we can to ensure we take in actual refugees interested in becoming Americans rather than terrorists interested in doing us harm.

Kansas City Tim,

the false Obama claim about the refugees are all ‘orphans and widows.’

Obama never said “All refugees are orphans and widows”.

I stated that crime has increased and YOUR link says the same thing, but you accuse me of knee jerk reactions because I don’t use ‘rate’ to dismiss the fact that the refugees are responsible for the increase?
You do realize that if the rate among refugees is lower then it would be easier to reduce the number of crimes by deporting native Germans rather than immigrants?

When you use the absolute number of crimes as your premise, you are making an unsound argument. You are trying to demonstrate that these refugees pose a threat to native Europeans, but simply increasing the number of crimes is not indicative of increased danger. In 2012, 7,172 murders were committed in Honduras. That same year, 14,827 murders were committed in the United States. Answer me truthfully, was the US twice as dangerous than Honduras (with respect to murder) in 2012?


Royal Flush,
The Gatestone Institute is run by Joshua Bolton, who is not an unbiased observer. Writing for the Gatestone Institute, Soeren Kern bases much of his article on reports from Die Bild, a German tabloid known for sensationalism and conservative views. Die Bild is not a reasonable source.

If everyone is uncomfortable with national media, perhaps we can look at a local source?
After conducting a machine translation from German to English, I read that the police in Braunschweig have noted a “remarkable increase” in crime is attributable to only a small number of refugees while the vast majority remain “peaceful and grateful”.

Ultimately, it seems we both may be right. Not all the asylum seekers are angels. And bad apples are numerous when you are looking at a pool of up to a million people. Still, it is unfair to let the few stop us from assisting the many good and decent people who are fleeing the war in their homeland. I agree with the desire for caution as we reevaluate our program to admit refugees. Still, it would be imprudent to consider reducing the number of accepted refugees. Instead, the focus needs to be on methods for improving our vetting process. However, I do disagree with the slanderous allegation that the refugees represent a concerted effort to subvert western values such as democracy and freedom. The vast majority of these immigrants are people who simply seek new lives in a land not torn by war.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2015 8:45 PM
Comment #400734

Warped, “This is why Obama instituted an extensive vetting process” What vetting process? The FBI and HLS heads say they can’t vet them because they have no way to vet them. Come on Warped, if it were up to Obama they would just waltz in here. Hell even HoR Dems broke ranks today on the Refugee vote. How the hell can you vet someone when you can’t even get a fingerprint check.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 9:11 PM
Comment #400735

KAP,
The vetting process for Syrian refugees takes 18 months to two years. The majority are children, women, and the elderly. It is worth noting that terrorist attacks are not being launched by refugees.

Meanwhile, conservatives are going further down a road we should really, really not travel. When Trump was asked today about developing a database of American Muslims, and having Muslims carry something identifying them as Muslims, Trump did not rule it out. He was asked two separate times, and he made it clear he was willing to consider it. His campaign was given a chance to walk it back. They did not.

I can’t imagine even Trump would ever go there. But how could he even entertain it? When asked, the answer should have been a simple and emphatic ‘no.’ Yet he did not.

RF, Trump is connecting all right; he is connecting with the dark side of American nature- the resentment of the Other. He is appealing to the bigotry and hatred and xenophobia that bubbles below the country’s surface. It is an ugly thing to behold.

Posted by: Phx8 at November 19, 2015 9:39 PM
Comment #400736

phx8, Tell me how you can vet someone when even getting a fingerprint check is impossible. The FBI and HLS heads say they can’t do a proper vetting on these people. Hell even 47 Dems sided with Republicans on the pause vote today in the HoR. Wouldn’t it be better if Obama used his head for once and called for NATO to set up safe areas for these people in Syria and surrounding areas? Come on phx8 stop thinking with emotion and use your head. You guys say we can’t be the worlds police, but we also can’t always be the worlds safe space.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 10:00 PM
Comment #400737

“Wouldn’t it be better if Obama used his head for once and called for NATO to set up safe areas for these people in Syria and surrounding areas?”

Royal,

There are already huge refugee camps in surrounding states. “The bulk of the estimated 4 million refugees from Syria have been settled in the surrounding states. Nearly 2 million in Turkey, another million in Lebanon, 600,000 in Jordan and over 100,000 in Egypt and Iraq each.”

Listening to some critics, you would think that there is little or no vetting process for Syrian refugees. That is not true. It is an extensive process.

An interesting discussion of the myths and facts from a conservative publication. http://bearingdrift.com/2015/11/18/myths-vs-facts-in-the-syrian-refugee-issue/

Posted by: Rich at November 19, 2015 11:01 PM
Comment #400738

Rich, Yes our vetting process is extensive, that being said how can you vet someone if you can’t even find anything on a database on him/her? How do you know him/her is who they say they are? With all the chaos in Syria if you find something it’s sketchy. In all honesty I have to agree with all the Reps and 47 Dems in the HoR. We need to pause taking these people in until there is a positive way to thoroughly vet these people. We already have 1250 people here in country that have or are tied to ISIS and it is difficult to watch them.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 19, 2015 11:26 PM
Comment #400743

Is this the liberal media I always hear about?

While it seems the reporter may have expressed a liberal slant on the vote outside of her medium of CNN, it would appear that the “liberal media” controlling her views does not approve and could not be described as liberal.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 10:02 AM
Comment #400744

Warren,

“Obama never said “All refugees are orphans and widows”.”

The game Obama was playing during his little tantrum is obvious. He intentionally referred only to widows and orphans, with the sole purpose of attacking those who disagree with him, in order to avoid debate and score political points.

“Apparently, they are scared of widows and orphans coming into the United States of America,” the president said. “At first they were too scared of the press being too tough on them in the debates. Now they are scared of 3-year-old orphans. That doesn’t seem so tough to me.”

Of course he didn’t say ALL refugees are orphans and widows, he just uses only orphans and widows to describe refugees.

“You do realize that if the rate among refugees is lower then it would be easier to reduce the number of crimes by deporting native Germans rather than immigrants?”

You do realize that ‘native Germans’ are actually citizens of Germany and are therefore the responsibility of Germany?

“You are trying to demonstrate that these refugees pose a threat to native Europeans,”

Actually, I stated that the refugees are responsible for the drastic increase in crime. That increased crime IS a threat, and that threat would not be there if those responsible for it were not there.

“but simply increasing the number of crimes is not indicative of increased danger.”

Crime is always dangerous, Warren. The more crime there is, the more dangerous it is. That is why I don’t live in downtown KC. That is why people use the whole KC metro area to get a ‘rate’ that offsets it.

“Answer me truthfully, was the US twice as dangerous than Honduras (with respect to murder) in 2012?”

Of course not, but we aren’t discussing whether or not crime is dangerous, we are discussing about WHO is responsible for the increase in crime.

You are using a false comparison to deflect, Warren. You don’t want to admit who is responsible for the increase and that the increase would not have happened if not for them.

Posted by: kctim at November 20, 2015 10:44 AM
Comment #400745

Once in awhile Speaks, even liberals see the folly of letting people into the country that cannot be thoroughly vetted and that includes the liberal media.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 10:48 AM
Comment #400746

What some see as folly others deem xenophobic, to each his own. Try not to let your fear of “the other” cloud your belief in our country as a bastion of freedom and the place that people can migrate to. I don’t think the vetting process was that stringent way back in the early 20th century. That is a very good thing, for I might not be here now if it was that way then.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 11:00 AM
Comment #400747

Rich,

Thank you for sharing the bearingdrift link. I’ve struggled to assemble my many disparate sources into a single comment due to the fact that comments with 3 or more links are automatically flagged for spam.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 11:08 AM
Comment #400748

No I don’t think our vetting process in the early 20th century was as stringent as it is now, Speaks. That being said with the way the world has become “Caution” not fear is in order. We are a bastion of freedom, but we cannot let our guard down as we did 9/11/2001. Or how France let it’s guard down 11/13/2015. We need to fill the cracks in our vetting process and make sure those refugees are who they say they are, and right now that cannot be done with any accuracy, and that is according to our FBI and HLS heads.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 11:23 AM
Comment #400749

The world has always been a rather scary place. I would disagree that today’s situation is a lot different then the early 20th century in terms of the fear of “the other”. Even during the time I grew up, mid-20th century, there was a lot of contempt held for Eastern European immigration. Believe me I have personal experiences with the prejudice being palpable and in plain sight.

In regards to your contention that “according to the FBI and HLS” you should read Rich’s link to bearingdrift. You are propagating misinformation for the purpose of supporting your fear of “the other”. We’ve been dealing with this for many, many years in this country and we will continue to do so.

If the Senate passes the bill that was decided on yesterday in the House and it does make it to the President’s desk, he has indicated that he would veto that. If he does all I can say is, thanks Obama!

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 11:38 AM
Comment #400750

I heard it straight from the 2 people themselves not some liberal commentator posing as a conservative, Speaks. Nothing new for Obama and Democrats, going against the will of a majority of people.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 12:00 PM
Comment #400751

Bearingdrift is a conservative website out of Virginia, I believe. So no it is not a liberal commentator posing as a conservative, it is a conservative. The link covers what was actually said by the head of the FBI, not what was misinterpreted by someone else. It might help to allay some of your fears regarding the Syrian refugee issue. I can only hope. Now about President Obama, no he would be doing exactly what the majority of people voted for him to do. Stand up for the beliefs and tenets of our great country.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 12:11 PM
Comment #400752
The game Obama was playing during his little tantrum is obvious. He intentionally referred only to widows and orphans, with the sole purpose of attacking those who disagree with him, in order to avoid debate and score political points.

I am not going to construe Obama’s remark as a constructive addition to the conversation. He mocked Republicans and scored political points; however, that mockery was a response to the ridiculous claims from Republicans (such as Chris Christie) that they considered orphans under the age of 5 to be too dangerous to be admitted as refugees. When you resort to hyperbole like that, you cede the right to a nuanced response.

You do realize that ‘native Germans’ are actually citizens of Germany and are therefore the responsibility of Germany?
My question was intended to be obtuse. Of course, there is no legal way for the German government to deport its own citizens without abridging human rights. The question for us to answer, is what obligation does the German government have to its own citizens with respect to crime and immigration. Is the obligation to keep the absolute number of crimes as low as possible or is the obligation merely to keep the crime rate as low as possible? Restricting immigration may reduce the absolute number of crimes, but so does reducing the fertility of native Germans. It is sensible for the government to focus only on the crime rate rather than the absolute number of crimes.
That increased crime IS a threat, and that threat would not be there if those responsible for it were not there.
If the absolute number of crimes goes up, but the crime rate goes down, the threat from crime has decreased. This is demonstrated by considering my comparison between the US and Honduras. The US had twice as many homicides as Honduras in 2012. Was the threat to Americans twice as great as it was for Hondurans? No, of course not.
Crime is always dangerous, Warren. The more crime there is, the more dangerous it is. That is why I don’t live in downtown KC. That is why people use the whole KC metro area to get a ‘rate’ that offsets it.
You don’t live in downtown KC because the crime rate is greater there than it is in the suburbs. Let me give you a more salient comparison: In 2010 there were 20 homicides in San Jose, California, and there were 10 homicides in Chelsea, Massachusetts. Tell, me which was a safer place to live with respect to homicide in 2010. Chelsea or San Jose?
You are using a false comparison to deflect, Warren. You don’t want to admit who is responsible for the increase and that the increase would not have happened if not for them.
Refugees commit more than zero crimes. Therefore, the introduction of refugees to Germany (or any European nation) will increase the absolute number of crimes in that region and that increase is due to the refugees. However, the separate conclusion that you are trying to draw from this fact does not follow from your premise. Just because refugees are responsible for increasing the absolute number of crimes does not mean they have increased the crime threat to native Europeans. Europeans are not more likely to find themselves the victims of a crime if the absolute number of crimes goes up so long as the overall crime rate goes down. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 12:21 PM
Comment #400753

Homicide Statistics from 2010:

20 homicides in San Jose, California

10 homicides in Chelsea, Massachusetts

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 12:23 PM
Comment #400754

NYPD Bratton, FBI stretched to thin to VET all Syrian refugees. WWW.AMNY.Com/…Bratton-FBI
FBI Director admits USA cannot VET all Syrian refugees
Patrick.net
FBI No way to screen Refugees coming to U.S.
WWW.WND.com
thehill.com
Breightbart.com
dailycaller.com
That’s just the first googled page Speaks, Bearingdrift is lying.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 12:56 PM
Comment #400755

KAP,
What the FBI and others are saying is this:

There is no vetting program that will work 100% of the time. There is always a chance a dangerous person gets through because their activities in Syria or elsewhere never raised any flags that put them into a US database.

There is a risk involved whenever we accept someone from overseas. However, this is a risk we must accept. And if Americans die because of it, so be it. They will die a martyr’s death, defending freedom and liberty against those who seek to take those virtues away.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 1:37 PM
Comment #400756

Full context of Comey’s remarks.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 1:51 PM
Comment #400757

Warped, “There is a risk involved whenever we accept someone from overseas. However this is s risk we must accept. AND IF AMERICANS DIE BECAUSE OF IT, SO BE IT. They die a martyrs death, defending freedom and liberty against those who seek to take those virtues away.” What an IDIOTIC statement if one American dies because of some refugee that cannot be fully vetted is BLOOD on the hands of every liberal/progressives hands including Obama’s. 3000+ people died on 9/11/2001 because we let someone slip through the cracks. SHAME ON US IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 2:07 PM
Comment #400758

An American dies in an automobile accident caused by a drunk driver. Does that mean everyone has blood on his or her hands for giving that person a driver’s license? Of course not. Life is full of risks, KAP. We can mitigate them as best we can, but we will never do away with them completely.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 2:20 PM
Comment #400759

Well it would seem we are at an impasse. Not much of a discussion if I try to state something and you say I or the sources I cite are liars and won’t even look at what they are saying. I am not saying you are lying, I am saying you haven’t been able to discern other opinions that might conflict with yours because you refuse to. All I can say is shame on you for not wanting to consider anything that conflicts with your predetermine assumptions. Shame on you for deserting the tenets of this country that you served for but I am not surprised.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 2:21 PM
Comment #400760

Life is full of risks, Warped, but adding more risks is pure IDIOCY. Would you let a rapist alone with your wife/girlfriend? Would you give your house keys to a thief? Would you let a child molester take your son/daughter? Letting a person into the U.S. when you can’t fully vet that person is like giving a DRUNK the keys to your car. SHAME ON US IF WE HAVE ANOTHER 9/11.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 2:38 PM
Comment #400761

Speaks, I read Rich’s link and I thought it was PURE BULLS**T. The author contradicted what the resent remarks were from both the FBI and HLS directors, and I don’t mean the remarks of a month ago. He sounded to me like a Liberal/progressive masquerading as a conservative.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 2:43 PM
Comment #400762

S4A,

BTW, the author of the entry on Bearing Drift is Brian Schoeneman who has run for local office in Virginia as a Republican.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 2:56 PM
Comment #400763
Life is full of risks, Warped, but adding more risks is pure IDIOCY. Would you let a rapist alone with your wife/girlfriend? Would you give your house keys to a thief? Would you let a child molester take your son/daughter? Letting a person into the U.S. when you can’t fully vet that person is like giving a DRUNK the keys to your car. SHAME ON US IF WE HAVE ANOTHER 9/11.

If refugees raped at the same rate as rapists, if refugees thieved at the same rate as theives, if refugees molested at the same rate as molesters, if refugees drove drunk at the same rate as a drunk driver, then you would be right. But none of those conditions are true. They are ordinary people from a war-torn nation. They aren’t asking for keys to my house or time alone with a child. They are asking for an opportunity to forge new lives as Americans.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 3:01 PM
Comment #400764

I find it difficult to watch the 24 hours news networks. The refugee situation is more complex than what is presented by the talking heads:

http://news.yahoo.com/americas-little-syria-divide-accepting-054814341.html

It’s better to read than watch. IS has recruited from the Somali refugee community in Minneapolis:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles-with-isis-recruiting-tactics/

On Donald Trump, why would anyone on earth believe what an egomaniac billionaire has to say? It’s just a performance.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 20, 2015 3:02 PM
Comment #400765

And I would imagine that through your eyes there are many, many people doing that “masquerading” you speak of. I am again not surprised. I do not envy the abject fear and suspicions that you must have to deal with every day. You bring this on yourself so I can claim no responsibility for that and would never want to.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 3:02 PM
Comment #400766
The author contradicted what the resent remarks were from both the FBI and HLS directors

Please give us those remarks, in verbatim, with a qualified source. For the record, both the FBI director and DHS secretary oppose the bill that passed the house.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 3:10 PM
Comment #400767

WP, I noticed that when I did a google search on his name. To you and I that means that he is a Republican attempting to add some truth to the discussion of the Syrian refugee issue in an otherwise sea of Republican misinformation. To others here he is an apostate and a liar.

Here is another interesting Republican espousing the xenophobia of his fellow party members, Steve Russell (R-OK).

After the speech he ended up voting for the SAFE Act. Go figure.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 3:15 PM
Comment #400768

Warped, Brian Schoeneman may have an “R” after his name but he sure sounds like liberal/progressive, could be “RINO” there are a few of them in the Senate and HoR. But you didn’t answer the questions you skated them. I’ll ask again, Would YOU let a rapist be alone with your wife/girlfriend? Would YOU give the keys to your house to a thief? Would YOU let a child molester take your son/daughter?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 3:17 PM
Comment #400769

Whoops, didn’t mean “espousing” meant “attacking”.

But voted for it anyway. My but there is some confusion on this whole subject.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 3:30 PM
Comment #400770

Warped, My linking skills are not good but here is the site WWW.WND.COM/2015/10/FBI-no-way-to-screen-refugees-comming

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 3:44 PM
Comment #400771

Oh my world net daily? No wonder you are so confused.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 3:49 PM
Comment #400772

No more confused then the BULLS**T you spew Speaks.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 3:53 PM
Comment #400773

Rapist, thief and child molester are loaded terms. In my mind they describe someone who is more likely to commit those respective crimes than not. I wouldn’t entrust that sort of person with any of my possessions or with any defenseless person that I love. Likewise, I would not permit a known terrorist to come to this country under the premise of seeking asylum. As I said above, we must do our best to mitigate life’s risks.

However, that is beside the point. In general, most refugees are more likely to end up as upstanding Americans. We are dealing with the possibility of a tiny number of bad apples, not a barrel of rotten fruit.

Lastly, I would like to apologize to kctim and issue a retraction. It appears that the origin of the propaganda video he shared was not an antisemite, but rather a troll on 8chan: http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/17/disturbing-muslim-refugee-video/

Boy has the technology of propaganda changed since the time of Goebbels!

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 3:55 PM
Comment #400774

I agree, Warped, most of the refugees may become upstanding citizens. I go to a Church full of refugees from Burma and Thailand they are great people. Most of those refugees I speak of spent years in refugee camps throughout Burma and Thailand and were properly VETTED before being allowed to come here. That is all that I and others ask is that the refugees from Syria be properly VETTED and by your remark that is what you want. I know a bad apple will slip in but we have to do all we can to minimize it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 4:11 PM
Comment #400775

Interesting anecdote for me, I hope for others also. My wife and I are planning to eat tonight at our favorite Vietnamese restaurant. Now when I was released from active duty in 1968 there were no Vietnamese restaurants in my metropolitan area and I doubt that if someone had started one then it would have been met with much success, if any. Now nearly every metropolitan area can claim a Vietnamese restaurant and sometimes there are many of them. I hope I am around when there is a proliferation of Syrian restaurants to choose from due to the influx of these refugees and their contributions to our economy. Good people like to share what they enjoy, I don’t doubt the Syrian immigrants will want to do the same. We don’t call ourselves the “melting pot” of the world for nothing.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 20, 2015 4:21 PM
Comment #400777

KAP,

It appears that the World Net Daily piece is based upon the same testimony I already shared (see Comment #400756). Those remarks are from a month ago. I’m talking about your comment:

The author contradicted what the resent remarks were from both the FBI and HLS directors, and I don’t mean the remarks of a month ago.

What are these “recent remarks” that you are talking about?

In any case, you say Brian Schoeneman contradicts what James Comey said. I see no contradiction between Schoenman and Comey, but I do see contradiction between what Leo Hohmann wrote and Comey’s testimony.

Hohmann says: “Comey said it was not possible for the U.S. to properly vet the Syrian refugees because there are no data points that would show the past activity of the vast majority of Syrians.”

However, nowhere in Comey’s testimony is there anything to suggest that the vetting that the FBI does isn’t “proper”. He merely said it was challenging to vet, but not impossible while acknowledging that no vetting process is 100% fool proof.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 4:32 PM
Comment #400778
I agree, Warped, most of the refugees may become upstanding citizens. I go to a Church full of refugees from Burma and Thailand they are great people. Most of those refugees I speak of spent years in refugee camps throughout Burma and Thailand and were properly VETTED before being allowed to come here. That is all that I and others ask is that the refugees from Syria be properly VETTED and by your remark that is what you want. I know a bad apple will slip in but we have to do all we can to minimize it.

That is identical to my sentiment. KAP, I understand why you are afraid. I would be afraid too if I read what Leo Hohmann wrote for WorldNetDaily and saw the same echoed in all the other media that I consumed. The problem is that we cannot trust people like Leo Hohmann to tell the truth. He is a propagandist and not a journalist. James Comey said it was impossible to eliminate a couple bad apples but Hohmann writes an article saying it is impossible to vet anyone. If you have the time, please
watch the whole hearing in its entirety. It will do much to assuage your fears. We have an extensive vetting process and it is working very well so far. Citing the same Reason Magazine article from my previous comment:

By comparison, while Somalia topped the failed/fragile state index from 2008 to 2013 (suggesting little infrastructure on the ground that could offer the kinds of datasets that make the FBI’s vetting job easier), the U.S. accepted nearly 30,000 refugees from Somalia in that time. Somalia is home to Al-Qaeda affiliate Al-Shabaab, which has launched multiple attacks in Kenya and called earlier this year for terrorist attacks against malls in the U.S. In fact, in 2013, the U.S. accepted about 34,000 refugees (more than half from Iraq) from countries ranking higher on the failed state index than Syria.

While the FBI’s common-sense acknowledgement it would be “challenging” to vet Syrian refugees is a primary argument deployed against the US accepting more of them, the FBI is not the only agency responsible for vetting refugees.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2015 9:28 PM
Comment #400779

Warped, Afraid NO, not of the refugees. More afraid of this administrations policies then anything else. As far as the U.S. taking in the refugees, I saw and googled articles on which countries are taking in refugees and to my surprise Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE and a few others in the area are NOT taking in or haven’t as yet taken any in. Why do you suppose that is Warped, I would think that the Syrians would want to stay in the M.E. You think maybe those countries know something we don’t? But that wouldn’t surprise me with this administration.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2015 10:24 PM
Comment #400780

We should remember that this is as much a propaganda war as a physical war. Over the past few years, ISIS has been very effective in conveying their message and converting young Muslims to their ideology.

It strikes me that wholesale rejection by the US of Syrian refugees plays right into the hands of ISIS. It not only creates a fertile recruiting ground among the refugees but conveys the message that the US doesn’t really care about the humanitarian needs of a Muslim population.

This is a difficult problem. Let’s not make it worse.

Posted by: Rich at November 20, 2015 10:35 PM
Comment #400781
I saw and googled articles on which countries are taking in refugees
I doubt it. You saw a headline on a conservative site and decided to regurgitate the talking point here.
to my surprise Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE and a few others in the area are NOT taking in or haven’t as yet taken any in

Greedy Sheikhs lack compassion for their fellow Arab. It is despicable.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 21, 2015 6:44 AM
Comment #400783

Harking back to the original entry:

While it seems entirely insensitive to make this decision, the risk is incredibly high to allow the possibility of an ISIS attack in the US, potentially killing more innocent Americans. Massachusetts governor has joined this group of Governors against the settling of refugees, remembering the individuals responsible for the Boston bombing less than 3 years ago were also refugees. Can you really hold it against him? It’s truly a sad and sensitive topic.

It’s unfathomable to imagine what these innocent people in Syria have endured, but the decisions of 27 Governors thus is an explicit display of the fear, and they’ve all made it clear the decisions are based on the safety of the people in their states. Governor Charlie Baker (MA) said, “My view on this is that the safety and security of the people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is my highest priority,” he added, “I’m always going to be at least willing to hear what the federal government has to say…Hearing what they have to say doesn’t mean saying yes.”

I suggest people look at the nuance Baker has expressed. Notably, he has refused to sign the letter sponsored by other GOP governors. As expressed by MichaelMears, Governor Baker has a much more salient perspective as Massachusetts was the target of Islamist Terror just 2.5 years ago. Now, Baker’s spokeswoman has announced that “Governor Baker believes that Massachusetts has a role in welcoming refugees into the Commonwealth and in the wake of recent, terrible tragedies overseas is working to ensure the public’s safety and security despite the limited role state governments play in the process”.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 21, 2015 9:10 AM
Comment #400787

Warren,

“Greedy Sheikhs lack compassion for their fellow Arab. It is despicable.”

I would submit that, due to the many sects of Islam, many of the countries wouldn’t allow refugees of a different sect.


KAP,

“Warped, Afraid NO, not of the refugees.”

Yeah, you bet, no fear.

You’ve already tried and convicted the refugees of crimes they haven’t even committed as your excuse not to accept them, and you’ve stated that openly on these pages aud nauseum.

What other manure are you going to shovel next?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 21, 2015 10:35 AM
Comment #400788

Rocky, There is a difference in being cautious and stupid which you seem to exemplify. If you want people coming to this country without knowing their background then that just shows ignorance on your part. Please show me where I convicted the refugees of any crime. With all that is going on with ISIS and other terror organizations caution should be the word of the day, but people like you throw caution to the wind. I hope nothing bad happens in this country but if it does I will blame it on Liberal/progressive stupidity.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 21, 2015 11:02 AM
Comment #400789
I would submit that, due to the many sects of Islam, many of the countries wouldn’t allow refugees of a different sect.
Still, the intolerance is despicable. Also, Iraq, Lebanon and Turkey have welcomed many refugees and I don’t believe either nation regrets it. Lastly, this is truly ironic given how generous Syrians were to Iraqi refugees 10 years ago.

KAP,

Favoring caution is great. I endorse a cautious approach as well, which is why I support the extensive process that we have in place to scrutinize these refugees.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 21, 2015 11:20 AM
Comment #400790

Warped, I agree we have an extensive process with the refugees but if there is nothing anywhere on a person how do you go about vetting him/her? How can they prove who they say they are? I think that is what most people want is our agencies to be sure of who they are letting into this country is in fact who they say they are and not some nut case hell bent on killing.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 21, 2015 11:35 AM
Comment #400795

The vetting process also includes extensive interviews with the subject at the refugee camp in Turkey/Lebanon/Jordan. A trained professional can detect a candidate that is lying. We’ve already accepted tens of thousands of Somali refugees. Somalia is a place with even scarcer documentation than Syria. Although there have been significant issues regarding the American-born children of these refugees, the refugees themselves have not posed any security threats to the US. I doubt Syrians would be any different.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 21, 2015 12:28 PM
Comment #400796

Warped, I don’t disagree with you but I do think most Americans want assurances from our leadership and law enforcement agencies.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 21, 2015 12:34 PM
Comment #400797

KAP, I think you are right. However, the Republicans are out of step with the American people on this issue with their calls for religious tests, outright bans or other lunacy.

As I said in Comment #400783, I think Governor Charlie Baker made the right call on this issue. Like most Americans, he said he wasn’t interested in admitting anymore refugees until he learned more. Today, he refused to sign the letter from the other governors, presumably because he now has confidence in our vetting system.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 21, 2015 12:55 PM
Comment #400800

KAP,

“If you want people coming to this country without knowing their background then that just shows ignorance on your part.”

Really?

It happens all the time. These refugees are fleeing those you have your panties in a wad over.

“Please show me where I convicted the refugees of any crime.”

Sure…

“Would you let a rapist alone with your wife/girlfriend? Would you give your house keys to a thief? Would you let a child molester take your son/daughter? Letting a person into the U.S. when you can’t fully vet that person is like giving a DRUNK the keys to your car.”

Seems to me that your invective is either the trial and conviction of these folks or the most despicable hyperbole ever KAP, please, pick one.

So through all of the bulls**t you’ve posted here on this subject it would appear you actually could care less whether these people were vetted or not, you just don’t want them here.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 21, 2015 7:09 PM
Comment #400801

Rocky, They are refugees, refugees get vetted before they are allowed entry if they don’t then they are ILLEGALS. If you think people should come into the country without being vetted thoroughly then that does show your IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY. Giving examples is not convicting any refugee of a crime. Maybe you would let a rapist be alone with your wife, or you would give a thief the keys to your house, or let your kids go somewhere with a child molester, but a sane person would not. A SANE person would want to make sure of who they accept into their homes, and this country is my home and I DA** sure want to know who the F*** our government is allowing into my home. “So through the Bulls**t etc, etc, etc,” Rocky I suggest you learn how to read you are definitely showing you can’t or comprehend what you read.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 21, 2015 8:25 PM
Comment #400802

KAP,

“They are refugees, refugees get vetted before they are allowed entry if they don’t then they are ILLEGALS.”

Were the Cuban boat people vetted? How about the Vietnamese?

“Maybe you would let a rapist be alone with your wife, or you would give a thief the keys to your house, or let your kids go somewhere with a child molester, but a sane person would not.”

A sane person wouldn’t make such a comparison. I have no idea where you got such thoughts but it surly can’t be original.

So, are you with Trump when he suggests that Muslims may need to carry around an Id identifying them?

Or should we just accept Christian refugees?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 21, 2015 10:12 PM
Comment #400803

Rocky, Were the Cuban boat people vetted, According to Educating about immigration Lesson 9, They were put in refugee camps in Florida and later moved to camps in several other states so basically YES they were vetted same goes for the Vietnamese.
A sane person wouldn’t make such a comparison, How do you know when you let a person into this country that hasn’t been vetted properly isn’t a Rapist, Thief, or Child Molester or Murderer. Only an IDIOT would let someone into the country without properly vetting them, do you fit that description Rocky. As far as religions goes, I could care less if the person is a Diest, Buddist , Muslim, Hindi, Atheist, or what ever as long as he is vetted properly.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 21, 2015 10:50 PM
Comment #400807

Rocky,

I don’t think we should be harsh on KAP. He is on the record for supporting the resettlement of Syrian Refugees in the US as long as they are properly vetted. The problem is that conservative media have told KAP a lie that the refugees aren’t being vetted when in fact they are undergoing tremendous scrutiny with barely half of all applicants obtaining approval.

James Comey acknowledged in a hearing last month that no vetting process is perfect. In particular, he said, “We can only query against that which we have collected,” Comey said at a congressional hearing, “and so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but … nothing will show up, because we have no record of that person.” It is a basic fact that you can’t prove a negative, but if someone has been living in Syria for decades without making any ripples in the proverbial pond, I think we can bet that person is more likely to become an upstanding American than a terrorist.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2015 10:07 AM
Comment #400808

Warren,

“I don’t think we should be harsh on KAP. He is on the record for supporting the resettlement of Syrian Refugees in the US as long as they are properly vetted.”

My point isn’t to thrash KAP, the point is to point out the rampant hypocrisy that seems endemic with the right.

For example, when Cuban refugees were landing on our shores during the Ford administration, there were Cuban terrorists among them that were here to assassinate those that supported normalizing relations with Cuba, and we new that for a fact.
Yet there was no interruption in our acceptance of Cuban refugees, vetted or not.

Our major players in the republican race for the nomination don’t have a problem with Christian refugees.

One of the major players has not denied he would have a national database for Muslims.

The right in this country has whined, bitched, moaned and complained that those people the right wishes to champion are “innocent until proven guilty”, yet the same pass is not given to anyone that is of a different political, or national stripe.

Are we exceptional or not?

If we are, we need to step up and prove it, not just pay the idea lip service.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 22, 2015 11:22 AM
Comment #400810

OK, but KAP is on the record as a Kasich supporter. I don’t expect him to defend Trump/Cruz/Carson.

KAP,

Perhaps can you explain to us the differences between the vetting system for Syrians and the vetting system for Southeast Asians?

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2015 11:43 AM
Comment #400811

Warren,

“OK, but KAP is on the record as a Kasich supporter.”

That’s all well and good, except for the fact that Kasich has proposed the creation of a new government agency to support Judaeo-Christian values around the world.
Not only is this idea dumb as a freaking stump in a world where the vast majority of people are Muslim, it is also unconstitutional.

Perhaps KAP can explain this as well.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at November 22, 2015 12:23 PM
Comment #400812

Warped, There is no difference. If you mistook my saying that some of the refugees were not being vetted, I never meant they were not being vetted but that some have very little or no information about themselves making it hard to impossible to vet properly that may be the same for many refugees. The Burmese and Thai. population I am familiar with were vetted by many people before being allowed here and prior to coming lived in camps along the Thai and Burma borders. As far as the Syrians go, if ANY OTHER country having the same things going on in them as Syria has I would want a more extensive vetting and I don’t care if they are Christian, Muslim, Karen, Thai, Vietnamese, Cuban or whatever. As far as the Vetting process goes for the Syrians I’ve heard Right wing and left wing reports and to tell you the truth I don’t know which to believe. As far as a Kasich supporter, I’m kinda straying from that but I will say I WILL NOT support any of the Democrat Presidential candidates.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 22, 2015 12:25 PM
Comment #400819
As far as the Vetting process goes for the Syrians I’ve heard Right wing and left wing reports and to tell you the truth I don’t know which to believe.

I appreciate your candor here. For me, the conservative media has a very poor track record. They have routinely obscured the truth and occasionally print bald faced lies. Not that the left is immune from that, I’ve definitely seen my fair share of hokey stuff, but this is why I try to double check everything I read by finding when I can.

some have very little or no information about themselves making it hard to impossible to vet properly that may be the same for many refugees

Yes, Comey acknowledged the difficulty of vetting a refugee “if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria”. But never has there been anything to suggest that it was impossible to vet those people properly. The vetting process includes interviews with NGOs and US govt personnel trained to detect security risks.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2015 2:34 PM
Comment #400820

KAP,

More candor from the same hearing: CLICK HERE

Our top national security people acknowledge the vetting system isn’t perfect, but that it is the best we can do. There are risks involved with admitting anyone to the US and these men are confident we have done everything we can to mitigate those risks.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2015 2:49 PM
Comment #400823

Warped, For me Both left and Right in the media exaggerate or leave out bits and pieces to suit their listeners and their bias. IMO it’s like watching a comedy show on who can exaggerate the story the best. I know the vetting process includes interviews with many people, but the thing I’m saying is, because of what is going on there and else where on this planet a bit more probing especially to those who have little or no track record. A bit more caution is not much to ask of our leadership, is it?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 22, 2015 3:03 PM
Comment #400825

KAP,

Regarding media: There are definitely problems with all media. 24 hour cable news has a propensity for sensationalism so I don’t watch it. The internet is rifled with slanted views. The best sources are ones who cite where they get their information. Verifying what one reads by referring to published government statistics is essential to savvy media consumption. Likewise, dispense with news stories that talk about other news stories. If POLITICO tells me that Secretary Kerry said something to the Washington Post, I quit reading POLTICO and look for the original story in the Washington Post. This latter strategy means I generally never look at news aggregation sites such as Breitbart or Huffington Post. Neither of those outlets does much original reporting, they just take things other people have done and repackage with the appropriate partisan spin.

I know the vetting process includes interviews with many people, but the thing I’m saying is, because of what is going on there and else where on this planet a bit more probing especially to those who have little or no track record. A bit more caution is not much to ask of our leadership, is it?

A fair sentiment. Understand first, that the testimonies of Jim Comey, Nick Rasmussen and Jeh Johnson indicate that we are already probing to the maximum extent possible. All three of these men acknowledge that it is possible for a Syrian to have a completely clean record, but still end up being a dangerous threat. No amount of vetting will distinguish such a person from the throngs of legitimate refugees.

You are right when asking for caution. Just understand that the Obama Administration is already proceeding very slowly on this matter, having capped the number of admissible Syrians at 10,000 even though the demand (and our capacity to absorb and assimilate) is much greater. Already, the application process takes roughly 2 years to complete.

Ultimately though, we’ll have to bite the bullet and trudge onward despite the risks. It is very clear that impersonating a refugee is far from the easiest way for DAESH affiliated terrorists to do us harm. Skipping the arduous application process and waiting periods, one of the hundreds of European-born DAESH fighters can easily buy a plane ticket and arrive at JFK airport tomorrow armed with a European passport and nothing else. No visa check is required and there is no vetting apart from a brief conversation with CBP at the airport. The visa-waiver program for European nationals is what troubles me the most.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2015 3:24 PM
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