Third Party & Independents Archives

You See? They Really Do Know

It got a little nasty fighting for scarce air time between themselves and then the audience turned on them. Yes indeed, Quintanilla, Quick & Harwood did not have the best of nights. And, bless him, it was Ted Cruz - who had a good night along with Rubio, surprisingly - who called them out and took on their divisive questioning and demanded a more substantive tone to their questions.

The audience roared their approval and you could feel the tone of the debate shift, right there and then. This has been happening all along during this campaign, as media pundits and beltway analysts on both sides struggle to calibrate public reaction that always seems to fall somewhere beyond their instrumentation, if you will. The questions had been fairly nasty rather than tough, and the audience were - and are, in general - a little sick of it.

Things are changing and the internet and social media in particular have changed the way people connect and the way they react. Voters have been annoyed at media for decades if not generations, but now they have a choice of online forums to voice the anger and create communities, and that is leading to an outright rejection of, rather than grudging acceptance of, media constructions.

But that's a little polite, of course. When Quintanilla tried to skewer Carson over his relationship with Costco, the audience booed loudly and Ben Carson's response, "You see? They know", summed this up perfectly. By the time Christie lam-based the fantasy football question, the mood on the stage was collegial. As Paul was asked about reforming Medicare, Christie and Cruz joked affably with each other.

Fiorina had little of the fire from the last debate. Her numbers since then did not soar as might have been expected. So she tried balancing between her rapid fire approach and a softer tone - clearly she was advised to do so - and it fell somewhere in no-man's land.

Rubio did have a bit of a confrontation with Jeb, but he managed it skillfully by telling Jeb, "someone has convinced you that attacking me will help you." Ouch. But in the end, the candidates rallied around Cruz's attack and tried to debate the ideas and policies and identify the differences in policy proposals rather than getting down and dirty. Trump even had a go at it by agreeing with Rubio and others on some issues.

So one has to thank Ted Cruz for laying bare the prejudices of the moderators. But even more than that, he went after the assumptions they operate under as journalists covering a debate. Let us hope the change we saw on that stage is a lasting one.

Posted by AllardK at October 29, 2015 12:19 PM
Comment #400076

Thanks Allard.

The moderators of the debate last night were simply disgusting, sleazy, low-life’s.

They performed their job as though this was an Oprah or Dr. Phil TV entertainment show. Americans deserve debates with moderators asking questions that enlighten us on the positions of the candidates on issues of great importance to our nation.

Clearly, these moderators were adept at lying, deceit and hubris.

Ted Cruz was stunning in his admonishment of moderator Carl Quintanilla.

Best line of the evening…”That (Democrat) debate reflected a debate between the Bolshevik’s and the Menshevik’s.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 29, 2015 1:36 PM
Comment #400081

The moderators were no better or worse than the previous debates. Megyn Kelly started the first debate with a question accusing Trump of misogyny, which resulted in a Trump phone call to FOX and a long, unscheduled vacation for Megyn Kelly. So the moderators were about the same in each of the debates, for better or worse.

Why did the Democrats fare so much better? Was it MSM bias? Of course not. The problem was the number of GOP candidates on stage. There were too many GOP candidates up there- again- and in a two hour debate, it left each candidate 10 minutes or less to make their case among an overcrowded field. Democrats had more than twice as much time to present positions and make dignified impressions. The situation was impossible for the Republican candidates, and to get down to brass tacks, the blame falls not on the moderators, not on the MSM, and not on the candidates, but fully on the RNC.

Posted by: phx8 at October 29, 2015 5:19 PM
Comment #400082

Come on! It was a business channel, hardly a bastion of liberal media bias. Perhaps it was the difficulty of answering simple math questions about their tax plans that frustrated the candidates. The fact that business journalists were skeptical of the economic and tax plans of Republican candidates must heve surprised and smarted.

The only one that made any sense was John Kasich. But, he probably won’t go very far reminding people that this isn’t some fantasy exercise and that there are no magic solutions. Unfortunate for him since he actually has a track record of fiscal conservatism at the federal level and has demonstrated the ability to govern at the state level.

Posted by: Rich at October 29, 2015 5:51 PM
Comment #400089

Remember, Cruz’s complaint about the moderators came at the expense of a questions regarding is refusal to support the recently negotiated budget compromise. It astonishes me that anyone would consider this a “gotcha” question. Do these guys really think HRC will give them a free pass on all of these salient issues?

I think Ezra Klein did a good job explaining what is going on here. The emperors have no clothes and claim that their naked appearances are merely an artifact of media bias rather than their own fault.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 29, 2015 6:28 PM
Comment #400090

It’s all the Republican’s fault because the Democratics are as clean as the wind driven snow.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 29, 2015 6:48 PM
Comment #400092

Hmm…we have a president who announces he will veto the congressional budget if it doesn’t have his favorite pork included.

Congress relents and gives the president the pork.

All the pork desired by the president and individual members of congress exceeds the government’s revenue.

The president demands that the debt limit be increased to cover his pork and congress resists wishing to only fund their pork.

A government shutdown looms and the blame game begins with shouts of “my pork is more important than your pork.”

As the deadline to increase the national debt limit is almost reached, the congress and the president agree to raise the debt limit to cover all the pork.

The debt limit is increased with many insisting we must live within our means. Even the president, before he became president, insisted that our debt was too large and growing to fast. Many in congress ran on “reigning in the debt” and won. But, reality sets in and the pork gets allocated and spent.

The national debt keeps rising and is now so huge no one can explain a reasonable scenario of it ever being paid off.

Many Americans don’t care about the debt burden they are placing on their children and grandchildren as long as the pork flows into their bellies now.

Government continues to spend more money to please ever more people and does so with borrowed money. Some are foolish enough to believe this can continue forever with no day of reckoning. We will call them “magical thinkers”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 29, 2015 7:38 PM
Comment #400094

Most of the debt this country has is owed to the Federal Reserve. We should abolish the Fed and abolish the majority of our debt along with it.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 29, 2015 10:02 PM
Comment #400095
Ted Cruz was stunning in his admonishment of moderator Carl Quintanilla.

Blaming the media for the lack of substance at the repub debate! When asked a question about his tax plan Carson folded, Cruz complained about a lack of substance after not asking a question of substance! Rubio was asked about his tax plan and refused to be truthful! Seems they were just trying to win points with the audience who ate the MSM message on que.

When a neurosurgeon fronts for a supposedly magical cancer cure shouldn’t the issue be vetted in the public eye? Hell if Hillary would have done that the repubs would have had a committee set up and “investigate” at great cost to the taxpayers for years, poor Ben whines at a question at a presidential debate!

Posted by: j2t2 at October 30, 2015 12:39 AM
Comment #400096

So let me get this straight, the GOP held a debate, the third of this election cycle, and are upset at the moderators, really! Did the dems set them up, say something like switch out the moderators just seconds before the “debate” started? Or did the RNC set up the debate and have control for months now? Ate these guys serious, they can’t even get a debate right and they want to run the country, seriously?

Yet Royal thinks the best moment of the debate was the cheap shot Cruz takes at the dems, while any question of substance goes unanswered as the fools, all 10 or so of them onstage, instead of answering the questions of substance deny the questions and whine about a lack of questions of substance.Then the repub audience applauds the attack on the moderators! Has the repub party really lost all ability to reason, all critical thinking skills, and instead lap up the dog and pony show these snake oil salesmen put on as if these guys were right.

My god what a laughing stock the GOP has become. Reminds me of the electrolytes debate.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 30, 2015 1:37 AM
Comment #400098

Why aren’t the media giving the Republican candidates a pass like they did with Obama during his elections?

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 30, 2015 9:34 AM
Comment #400100

B4ecause the only place this “pass” exists is in your head Weary.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 30, 2015 10:50 AM
Comment #400110

Why can’t Republicans ever, ever take any critical occurrences to heart and not just deny they had any part in the process. It’s always someone else’s fault, or someone else gets a pass and they don’t, or the “liberal media” is against them. Just own up to something when it occurs and try to move on. I especially thought Reince Priebus’s comment that the CNBC debate was a “crap sandwich”. What a laugh, the RNC has been consulted on every debate and future debate. The debates should have been between the top 4 candidates only. This 17 ring circus that they came up with is unmanageable and leads to exactly what they got, a sideshow with carnival barkers on stage as candidates. Well Reince when you butter the bread with “crap butter” and then pile on 17 layers of “crap” what do you expect? I see his latest press release is that NBC will no longer moderate debates unless they sit down with the candidates and decide the format. I’m sorry but that just seems a little bit counter-productive to proving that you are part of a Democratic Republic with open elections and campaigns. I can see the questions now, “Tell us Donald how you became to be such an awesome and yuge candidate?”. Sure that won’t look contrived, hah!

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 2:48 PM
Comment #400114

Speaks; ” The debates should have been between the top 4 candidates only.” He then writes that he wants; “open elections and campaigns”.

Speaks is voted the emperor of hypocrisy?

Sounds like jealousy to me.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2015 3:27 PM
Comment #400115

No sounds like common sense to me. They are already excluding candidates that don’t reach more than, I believe, 2 % in the polls. Since they are already using that litmus, why not just say only the top 4 polling candidates debate. Or are you suggesting that there should be more than 17 candidates in the debate? Why not 100 or 1,000 or 10,000? Nobody gets to vote for me since I have not requested any elected position. I claim my position and wait for no one to agree with me.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 3:32 PM
Comment #400117

“No sounds like common sense to me”

Sounds like jealousy to me.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2015 3:37 PM
Comment #400118

I think the whole Republican debate debacle can be laid at the feet of the RNC and the networks and the advertising dollars that are gained by them. They knowingly contrived a debate involving more candidates for several reasons. More candidates means more viewers because each candidate has a viewing audience, even if it is small. More candidates means more adversarial back and forth, even if that is at the expense of quality debating, and everybody knows that adversity sells on TV. More candidates means longer debate times necessary to attempt to give everyone a chance with the mic, longer debate times means more advertising dollars. I could go on and on but what this comes down to is greed not politics, but it is beginning to become difficult to tell the difference isn’t it?

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 3:40 PM
Comment #400119

Suit yourself but why would I be jealous? Oh maybe you mean because the Democrat debates don’t have that many candidates?

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 3:41 PM
Comment #400120

Flat out disaster for the GOP. The leading candidate going into the debate, neurosurgeon Ben Carson, lied about his relationship with a company promoting a quack cure for cancer, among other things. He denied it! Propaganda! The conservative audience even cheered when Carson pushed back. Curse those moderators! Curse the MSM! But the story is coming out, and the neurosurgeon had a contract and made at least four speaking appearances for the company, including one known infomercial.

Kasich opened the debate with an attack on his fellow candidates. Kasich, by the way, loved the debate and thought it was awesome because it revealed the other candidates for what they are: people incapable of succeeding in the White House.

The GOP is tearing its hair out, and has suspended the NBC debate in a few months. According to the RNC… the problem, you see, is not a stage overcrowded with 10 terrible candidates. The problem is not economic agendas which are either terrible, or fantasies, or completely non-existent. No! The problem is people noticing, and this is the fault of the MSM!

Ah yes. Those infamous “gotcha” questions. It’s all a conspiracy. It’s all a matter of MSM bias, and that is why the Democrats look so good, and the GOP candidates look awful.

Uh huh. Good luck with that.

Posted by: phx8 at October 30, 2015 3:45 PM
Comment #400121

Speak, it must be exhilarating for you to wake up in a different world every day with new explanations to justify your jaundiced beliefs.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2015 3:46 PM
Comment #400123

Moderate: kept or keeping within reasonable or proper limits; not extreme, excessive, or intense: …

Adversary: an enemy or opponent

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2015 3:54 PM
Comment #400124

I have no idea what you are typing about now RF. Did you take your meds?

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 3:55 PM
Comment #400127

Not sure why anybody is saying asked bad questions. I’ve always based my vote on what cartoon character a candidate wants to be and what they think of fantasy football.

Posted by: kctim at October 30, 2015 4:03 PM
Comment #400137

Not trying to defend the questions but many people base their votes on many different things that they consider important but someone else might not. Hair styles, likeability, demeanor and much more, sometimes without a care for substance or logic but that is their problem not mine. The problem with the Republican debates is they are based on the greed it takes to sell TV time and the Republican party fell for that hard, they just haven’t realized it yet. Well I think their leaders knew all along and probably the candidates too. I can’t believe how well reality shows do on TV but someone likes them. The Republican debates have so far exhibited all of the talent and forethought that reality TV displays. Hey, it sells.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 30, 2015 4:55 PM
Comment #400142

The RNC chose to have a debate moderated by a cable business channel. Did it not think that the moderators would ask questions about the tax and economic proposals of the candidates?

The fact that the candidates, with the exception of Kasich, couldn’t even begin to answer some very basic math questions about their tax and revenue proposals was the fault of the moderators? Read the transcript of the Carson exchange on his tax proposal. He doesn’t even seem to understand his own proposal, let alone defend it with logic and numbers. Trump defended his proposal by saying that Larry Kudlow likes it. Huh?

Rather than be upset, the RNC and the candidates should be grateful to CNBC for calling them out on their illusory and, more appropriately, delusional tax and economic plans. It is the Democrats and liberals that should be upset.

Posted by: Rich at October 30, 2015 6:42 PM
Comment #400153

Even more embarrassing was the revelation that Trump apparently had not read what his staff wrote for him to put on his website regarding his immigration policy.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 31, 2015 1:28 AM
Comment #400155

The Real President of America is Hillary Clinton, and the Clinton’s have the Dirt on Barack Obama who is being Bribed and Blackmailed to be Hillary Clinton’s Puppet, but this is being Cunningly Disguised by Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton admitted to being the Real President of America, during the time Bill Clinton was residing in the White House, and Hillary Clinton admitted to saying this by saying: “I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We (Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton) are the president.”

The Facts are that Hillary Clinton was the Real President during that time, and this is Criminal, because it is Unconstitutional, and Bill Clinton was busy with Monica Lewinsky and the others.

Hillary Clinton has already had 2 terms as President during the time Bill Clinton was residing in the White House, and Hillary Clinton is once again the Real President of America during the Puppet Obama Administration, but she can not admit to this because it is Treason under the American Constitution.

Hillary Clinton could not admit to being the Only President under during the during the time Bill Clinton was Pretending to be President, because it is Treason under the American Constitution, but to claim that she was Equal President with Bill Clinton is Treason, but Hillary Clinton was More than just Equal President with Bill Clinton, because she was the Only President, even if she Lies and denies it, and those with sufficient Discernment know this to be a Fact.

The Bush and Clinton Dictatorship of America began in 1981 with the Actor Ronald Reagan being a Puppet of Vice President Bush Senior who was the Real President of America, and Hillary Clinton was the Real and Secret President of America during the time Bill Clinton pretended to be President, and Hillary Clinton is the Real President of America during her Puppet Obama Administration.

The father of the first President Bush, and the grandfather of the second President Bush was Prescott Bush who was a Wall Street Banker and a United States Senator, and so anyone with Discernment Knows that Ronald Regan was a Puppet of the first President Bush.

The World might not know that America is a Republic according to their Constitution, but they have heard that America is a Democracy.

We can see that America is not a Democracy, because the Bush and Clinton Regimes have been in Power since 1981, and these things go against the Principles of Democracy.

Other Countries and People notice this, and the World is 90 % Non White, and these People see the Clinton Dictatorship as a Blatant Expression of White Supremacy.

The World is not against America having a White President, but they see the Hillary Clinton Regimes as both White Supremacist and Treasonous, and there are People who given All these Facts, think that if the Democrats nominate Hillary Clinton to be the Democrat Presidential Candidate, then the Democrats have Disrespected Americans and the Rest of the World.

Hillary Clinton was President under the Disguise of Secretary of State, and she retired from being Secretary of State, because had she stayed the until the Elections, then any mistakes by her a Secretary of State would have affected her ambition to be Elected as President, and to continue to be President, because if a Republican was Elected as President, then Hillary Clinton could not be President during those years, and Hillary Clinton has so far been the Real President of America for 15 years.

We have seen how Hillary Clinton Cunningly Engineered the Benghazi Embassy Attack, so that the Republicans had to question her on this, because the Republicans know that Hillary Clinton is a Proven Schemer and Liar.

Hillary Clinton is a Selfish Ego Maniac, despite the Lies, the smiles, and smooth words, and Hillary Clinton wants to turn America into a Military Dictatorship.

There could be People who think that the Republicans are hoping that Hillary Clinton is nominated as the Presidential Candidate for the Democrats, because they have some of her Emails and other Information, that will help the Republicans win the Elections, because any other Democrat Candidate for President could Never be as Corrupt as Hillary Clinton.

There is much Proof that Hillary Clinton is a Schemer, a Liar, and a Criminal, and the Proof is the Numerous Clinton Scandals at .

Posted by: Journalist at October 31, 2015 5:15 AM
Comment #400156

The Real Reason that Hillary Clinton was not nominated in 2008 as the Presidential Candidate for the Democrats, is because it would have Too Obvious regarding the Bush Senior, then Puppet Bill Clinton, then Bush Junior, and then Hillary Clinton once again.

This is why Barack Obama was given the nomination to be Presidential Candidate in 2008, to try to conceal this, but Hillary Clinton has been the Real President of America during what is referred to as the Obama Administration.

Hillary Clinton is making Promises during the Primaries Campaign, but she has been the Secret President of America for 15 years, and Hillary Clinton is lying again as Usual.

Hillary Clinton has been the Real and Secret President of America during the Puppet Obama Administration by Issuing Decrees using Emails.

Hillary Clinton will not restore Respect for America from other Countries and People of the World, because they Know All these things.

There are many American People who will be the last to Realize these Facts, and this is why they do not want Hillary Clinton to be a Candidate in the next Presidential Elections.

Posted by: Journalist at October 31, 2015 7:50 AM
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