Third Party & Independents Archives

What Was Trump Thinking?

What was Trump thinking of? And how dare he attack Jeb’s brother over a carefully concealed plot by a small cell of al qaeda terrorists? All true, and it provoked a very reasonable and even righteous response on Jeb’s part. Come out swinging for your big brother, as Jeb and his advisors have done. But this is hardly the first time that they have declared war on Trump and recent polls still put Trump in the high 20’s while Jeb is below 10 percent in most of the polls.

Are Trump's comments on 9/11 pathetic? Another poorly thought-out insult by a media figure who - we are told by Jeb's team - is a political walking zombie who will lead the GOP to destruction in November 2016? Or is there more to Trump's outrageousness than merely a seemingly congenital necessity to provoke?

Whether they are deeply offended on Jeb's side or they also see it as a great opening, (both, likely), it re-opens the debte on America's foreign policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan and the build-up by al qaeda towards the eventual attack. That puts Clinton's years in the White House under scrutiny and puts the months leading up to 9/11 in focus again. Even if it is most unreasonable to make those sorts of links. It's there in the public debate once again. And that gives Trump ground to attack the Iraq War and America interventionism in hotspots around the globe.

Will these attacks - especially this one - finally come back to haunt Trump's campaign? That remains a key question going forward and one that his detractors truly do believe will finally bring his campaign to its knees and open up the GOP race to the "real" candidates. Like Ben Carson ... oops. One cannot imagine Carly Fiorina using such a strategy - her tactics are to show herself as perhaps smarter and more focused but in the same line as a George W. Bush.

Trump wants to take a different road altogether, and that means lots of face-to-face business meetings with people like Putin and Xi where tough economic negotiations rather than military strategy would become the norm. Yes, Trump claims he will rebuild the military so that no one even thinks of attacking, but America already has by far the world's most powerful military. Yes, continuing investment and innovation in the military matter a great deal but so does how you use the military in the 21st century. A meeting between businessmen is one of rational agents seeking a preferred outcome with the best information they can get. Planning how to prevent another 9/11 from ever happening again, often involves dealing with irrational agents like Islamic State crazies who do not worry about the military strength of America especially if they are willfully suicidal attackers. The outcomes are asymmetric in other words.

But right now, Trump's supporters seem not to worry about this contradiction in Trump's stance on the military. They want his style and his tactics. Even his view that America should engage sparingly with it's military. And it's still working for The Donald. Even in late October.

Posted by AllardK at October 22, 2015 6:59 PM
Comments
Comment #400020

Trump was thinking the truth. His comments regarding GWB were as truthful as Trump can get. The real question should be “What was Jeb thinking” IMHO. He was trying to use his brother of all people for political gain and ends up looking like an amateur whilst Trump looks like the political pro for calling Jeb out on his revisionist history blurb.

And it’s still working for The Donald. Even in late October.

And he will be the man come August and the repub convention if the average Joe’s get their way. Lets face it the bus is filled with clowns and Americans have taken a liking to Trump the honest clown. Not Jeb the lying clown, nor Carly the deceiving clown ,nor Cruz the egomaniac clown, nor Kaicsh the sad bitter clown, nor Huckabee the false prophet clown, Nor Rubio the say anything for attention clown, nor Carson the ….well maybe Carson the clown’s clown.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 26, 2015 12:46 PM
Comment #400035

j2t2,
It’s very hard to believe Donald Trump could win the GOP nomination. It’s even harder to believe Carson could win it. He strikes me as being the least knowledgeable, least capable candidate out there, truly the clown’s clown, and yet he just polled first in Iowa. Now, Iowa Republicans are perfectly capable of voting for some pretty nutty candidates, and the Iowa winners usually fail to complete elsewhere, so Iowa can be safely ignored by Republicans. Still, the idea that anyone would imagine, even for a moment, that Ben Carson as president would be a good idea… Well, it’s mind boggling. At times he has no idea what he is talking about. Of course, Trump does the same thing, only louder.

Amazing the way Trump dismantled Jeb! Jeb! never really had a chance- the idea that anyone would vote for another Bush is delusional- but Jeb! did have a lot of money and a powerful donor network. He laid out a lot of very detailed policies, and declared he would lose the primary in order to win the general election. Congrats, Jeb! Nice strategy, that. Nothing can hide the fact that he is not a very good candidate, no one is interested in his traditional conservative policies, and he seems flummoxed every time the issue of his brother and Iraq or 9/11 arises. Guess there is a certain amount of schadenfreude in seeing a Bush fail so badly. Jeb! has just reminded conservatives of the things they never came to terms with under W, and without a propaganda machine to blame Clinton for 9/11 or declare we were winning in Iraq, the whole campaign did a well-deserved snow plow with its face.

Posted by: phx8 at October 26, 2015 11:52 PM
Comment #400036

Phx8 I have a much easier time seeing Trump winning the nomination. I see many blue collar types who think the Mexicans are the problem with wages and jobs. I see many older guys who like Trump because “he tells it like it is”! It’s not surprising to me as I see many Americans,” they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

The professional politicians just don’t ring true anymore, I mean Trump and Carson are competing against the likes of Jeb, Cruz, Huckzbee, Fiornia,Rubio and such. These guys are corporate lap dogs and so stiff they can’t ring true with the average voter. That’s why conservatives have been working so hard at the state level to restrict voting for the masses.

Jeb was his own downfall when it came to his pronouncement about his brother, Trump just told the truth in his dog eat dog way that is so popular with people today. I would say Trump just stuck the knife in but it was more like Jeb just tripped and fell on his own sword.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 27, 2015 12:27 AM
Comment #400037

In fact phx8 I see a point in time, say July or August when the repub money men try to get the HoR to get an amendment to repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution to get Obama back for a third term! Oh just kidding but it is probably their best shot right now providing they are unable to get a bill passed allowing only the landed gentry the right to vote. Between older Tea Baggers and the younger just getting political blue collars guys trying to raise their family while their jobs and wages are stagnant the establishment repubs are looking at Trump as the repub candidate for president.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 27, 2015 12:42 AM
Comment #400042

The leading liberal candidate is an anti American socialist.
The leading democrat is a billionaire reality star.
The current President was elected because of his race.
The next President will be elected because of her gender.

I doubt anybody thinks it can’t happen here.

Posted by: kctim at October 27, 2015 10:43 AM
Comment #400043

Kctim, are you admitting defeat already? Or are you suggesting Fiorina will be elected? But to think it was all about race, the previous 2 elections, is just wrong headed. Just like thinking Bernie is anti American, perhaps you mean anti Amurican where the confederate flag is the flag of the land and people of color are slaves and women can’t vote or conservative utopia as it is known.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 27, 2015 12:20 PM
Comment #400046

Admitting defeat already? LOL! I admit defeat before every election, J2. In a nation full of people dependent on government, there is no room for a candidate who respects the Constitution.

I have also stated that I believe Clinton will be our next President. As long as she supports abortion, redistributing others wealth, and special treatment for special groups, the materialistic and dependent people will blindly vote for her. Integrity, character and qualifications mean nothing to them.

The United States Constitution is as American as anything could possibly be. To promote throwing everything it stands for out the window, is anti American.

Thankfully, Sanders is honest about what he supports and doesn’t resort to childish lies and stereotypes about the confederate flag, racism or sexism, in hopes of support.

Posted by: kctim at October 27, 2015 12:43 PM
Comment #400050

Personally, I did not vote for Obama because he was black; in fact, I considered that a disadvantage, but thought he would not encounter that much racism compared to the hatred HRC would generate simply because her last name was ‘Clinton.’ Obama won my vote because of his policy on Iraq. We withdrew most of our troops and we stopped bleeding money. Hillary always was more of a hawk, and she still is somewhat hawkish to this day. Her vote to go along with invasion of Iraq cost her the presidency in 2008, and being misled was not a good enough excuse. I’m still not fond of her stands on trade issues and the NSA, but there will never be the perfect candidate. She is acceptable to me on the social issues, she is smart and competent an experienced and has the kind of gravitas a leader needs to exhibit.

Sanders is honest and relentless about addressing issues. He is relentless because he knows if he can get Americans to listen, and forget about name-calling or personal attacks on other candidates, then he will do very well indeed. He is also a very competent and accomplished politician who is surprisingly good at helping people come together and work together. I disagree with enough of his stands that he would be my second choice, but his willingness to be realistic about what he can and cannot accomplish might make him a much better president than most people realize.

j2,
Thanks for the link on the Guatemalan election. I missed that one. Pretty incredible story. Heaven knows the people of that poor country could use a good leader.

It is still very hard to imagine Trump will win the GOP nomination, but the longer he stays on top, the likelier it becomes. I think it is safe to dismiss Carson regardless of what polls say. He says too many truly goofy things. Now he wants to use the Department of Education to look into complaints about whether schools are being too extreme or biased in their teachings. If the Department of Education determines that is so, they will withhold federal funding.

Gee. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that!

What is wrong with this guy? Why would anyone think that is a good idea, never mind a presidential candidate who is giving an interview?!

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2015 1:11 PM
Comment #400052

Not just the country kctim, the world, with a few libertarian utopia exceptions, depends on government. Fortunately in this country we have the constitution that allows for a government by and for the people. Of course as with all systems we have our problems, nothing more so than those that tell us government is the problem running the government, IMHO. Is there even a candidate running that would meet your expectations of “respects the constitution” whatever your definition is?

Integrity, character and qualifications mean nothing to them.

Sure they do those are the buzzwords used by extremist to further the fascism of the right wing. I mean there simply isn’t an ounce of integrity, character and qualifications amongst the entirety of the right wing let alone right wing politicians. It is all about personal gain for the aristocracy kctim.

The United States Constitution is as American as anything could possibly be. To promote throwing everything it stands for out the window, is anti American.

Don’t be silly kctim, Sanders promotes nothing that is anti American. Thats just an extremist talking point to scare the movement followers into submission.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 27, 2015 1:49 PM
Comment #400053

McCain and Palin. Why on earth didn’t everybody vote for Obama? Hell he could have been a deep red with horns and a tail and the repubs made it a no brainer.

Now they are doubling down, Trump and Carson are leading the way! The honest Trump and the scary Carson are leading the polls of potential candidates against Jeb and Cruz and Carly and Huckabee and Graham, but… hey wait … a …. minute…where is Palin?

Seems to me the dems had it right way back then despite all the braying about the repub ticket.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 27, 2015 1:56 PM
Comment #400055

J2, no, there is not a candidate running that respects the Constitution. Sure, some respect it more than others, so obviously I will vote for a Republican here and there, and never vote for a liberal, but as of right now, it looks like I won’t be voting for any of the leading candidates.

“Sure they do those are the buzzwords used by extremist to further the fascism of the right wing.”

Lying about classified information on your private server is a lack of integrity.
Lying about landing under sniper fire in an attempt to embellish your resume, is a lack of character.
Being a former first lady and a scandal ridden mediocre SOS, does not make one qualified to run the country.

Stating facts is not fascism, J2. Trying to suppress those facts with lies and excuses however, could be.

“It is all about personal gain for the aristocracy kctim.”

An ‘aristocracy’ that Clinton is at the top of.

“Don’t be silly kctim, Sanders promotes nothing that is anti American.”

Then you know even less about the Constitution than I thought. Do yourself a favor J2 and read/learn about Sanders some. Maybe then you will see and understand why even most liberals know he doesn’t have a chance.

Posted by: kctim at October 27, 2015 2:30 PM
Comment #400060
Lying about classified information on your private server is a lack of integrity. Lying about landing under sniper fire in an attempt to embellish your resume, is a lack of character. Being a former first lady and a scandal ridden mediocre SOS, does not make one qualified to run the country.

Kctim, perhaps you have missed the news, it seems to happen when conservatives get the truth, but the witch hunt was staged by repubs to lower her poll numbers with false claims of untrustworthy and such. SO the lying was done by repubs and many of their candidates. Why give the email claim any veracity when it is the same group of operatives, already outed as liars and scoundrels, using false claims to destroy her credibility?

While Hilary’s career record is impressive, it seems you left off the US Senator part of it though, she has more qualifications than anyone you would vote for! Partisan BS comes to mind when you tell us this stuff as her time as the SoS wasn’t scandal ridden but more of a political attacks to make it appear to be scandal ridden nature.

The foolish measurement many conservatives use to analyze her time as SoS just amazes me. You guys would tell us it was easy peasy yet the fact is it was the lack of major problems due in part to her competence that marked her time as SoS.

To think that an exaggeration of her “sniper fire” incident sum up her many years in the glare of vicious repub attacks and public service should brand her is a very high bar , one that you should hold all the candidates to if you choose to hold her to it.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 28, 2015 11:25 AM
Comment #400062

J2, sorry, but facts are facts.
Clinton said there was no classified info on her private email server. Classified emails were found on her private server.
Clinton said she only deleted non work related emails about wedding planning, yoga and condolences. Deleted work related emails were found on her private server.
That is the FBI, so you can give up on the tired and weak vast right-wing conspiracy BS.

I had completely forgotten about her being a Senator and I stand corrected. While that doesn’t magically make her qualified to be President, I should have added that.

“Partisan BS comes to mind when you tell us this stuff as her time as the SoS wasn’t scandal ridden but more of a political attacks to make it appear to be scandal ridden nature.”

Yeah yeah, I know. She was so great and the ‘evil other side’ are to blame. If it makes you feel any better, Bush supporters told me the exact same thing.

“To think that an exaggeration of her “sniper fire” incident”

It was an intentional effort to embellish for personal gain. She got caught and rather than simply admit her wrong, she made a dishonest excuse. This is SOP for her and it shows a lack of character.

“one that you should hold all the candidates to if you choose to hold her to it.”

I already stated that I don’t think any of the candidates deserve my vote, so apparently I am holding them all to the same standards, J2. That my standards don’t revolve around the dollar and special treatment as your’s do, does not negate that fact.

You are the one ignoring facts and making excuses simply because she supports the same policies you do, not me. He11, you wouldn’t vote for her IF you held her to even half the same standards you hold Republicans to.

Posted by: kctim at October 28, 2015 1:08 PM
Comment #400072
Clinton said there was no classified info on her private email server. Classified emails were found on her private server.

Facts may be facts kctim but when you guys manipulate them they become half truths or outright lies. As is the case here. When the emails were sent none were marked classified. Using this MO as your fellow conservatives do indicates a lack of integrity and character yet the finger pointing repubs are not held to the standards they set for others. Movement followers blindly accept the misinformation and regurgitate it as truth. Regurgitating misinformation or disinformation as truth does not make it facts nor does it make it true.

The odd thing is you guys didn’t see a problem with emails when it was the previous administration using them to bypass scrutiny. Perhaps a bit of the do unto others as they do unto you has left a sour taste in your mouth but with the conservatives and their witch hunt in full court press what else should they expect?
DO you really think Hillary should leave herself subject to every foolish claim and false attack from the right? There comes a point in time when it is best to let your candidates run on their records instead of trying to tarnish the record of others.

You are the one ignoring facts and making excuses simply because she supports the same policies you do, not me.

I don’t support many of Hillary’s policies, in fact Sanders view on gun control has my vote. I am glad she has come around on TPP but I think she will backslide when elected.


He11, you wouldn’t vote for her IF you held her to even half the same standards you hold Republicans to.

How would we know kctim, the repubs have obfuscated her work, her views, her …well… everything they can to attack her. All we know is they have been proven wrong so many times. The little boys who cried wolf so many times have led us to the point any criticism of her from the right is tainted. Perhaps if they would expound on their plans instead of shouting liberty whilst creating a false narrative of Hillary we would have a means to determine a standard.

I don’t think the standard I hold repubs/conservatives to is that high, it is simply run on your merits and how your work has benif… the… oh I guess that is a bit much isn’t it? Perhaps if I only took into consideration the number of times they invoked “liberty” and “Reagan” they would look better, but saying it and doing it are two different things.

She was so great and the ‘evil other side’ are to blame

It isn’t about her being great kctim, just look at the depths you guys have sunk to as you try to vilify her. Now if that equates to evil in your mind so be it. The issue is how the repubs cannot stand on their policies and their ideology but instead have to resort to myths misinformation half truths and outright lies to condemn her.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 29, 2015 10:59 AM
Comment #400074

J2

“My guys” on this issue are the FBI and they have stated that they have found classified government information on a private email server after being told by the owner of that private email server that she never received classified government information on her private email server.

The ‘I didn’t know’ CYA excuse is ridiculous to ANYBODY who has ever dealt with classified information, and to ANYBODY with the integrity to give it any rational thought.

- Why would the SOS of the most powerful nation on earth ever think she would not receive sensitive emails?
- Knowing that she would indeed receive sensitive emails, why would she knowingly set up and use a private unsecured email server to receive them?
- How would the SOS of the most powerful nation on earth NOT be even the slightest bit familiar with what could be classified information, and the proper procedures for reporting the mere possibility of it being compromised, like EVERY other person with a clearance?

So which is it, J2?
Was she unqualified to handle classified information and thereby unqualified to be SOS?
OR
Is she intentionally being dishonest so as not to harm her quest to become President?

“The odd thing is you guys didn’t see a problem with emails when it was the previous administration using them to bypass scrutiny.”

IF there was anything there, the left would have used it. For God sakes, you guys are still trying to “prove” Bush stole the elections in 00 and 04.
What’s not odd, or unexpected, is the ‘but , response that statement always receives.

“DO you really think Hillary should leave herself subject to every foolish claim and false attack from the right?”

What I think is that people should hold her accountable for her actions, not make weak excuses simply because she is a democrat.

“There comes a point in time when it is best to let your candidates run on their records instead of trying to tarnish the record of others.”

I have seen people reprimanded and even discharged for mishandling classified government information. From ashes not being properly destroyed, to an unsecured lock, to an open cover.
The fact that you are more worried about tarnishing the record of somebody you support than you are about national security, speaks volumes.

Posted by: kctim at October 29, 2015 12:30 PM
Comment #400168
they have stated that they have found classified government information on a private email server after being told by the owner of that private email server that she never received classified government information on her private email server.

This doesn’t demonstrate anything unless it can be shown the material was classified at the time it was received.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 31, 2015 8:54 PM
Comment #400182

As SoS Warped, Hillary should have enough knowledge of what is sensitive and not store it at an unsecured location, lesser people have been jailed for less. So please enlighten us on why Hillary should not be held to those same standards?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 1, 2015 9:47 AM
Comment #400189

Don’t be silly, being SoS doesn’t grant HRC the ability to see the future. Nothing in HRC’s emails was sensitive at the time it was sent/received.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 1, 2015 1:05 PM
Comment #400191

Warped, your full of crap, she as SoS should of known what was sensitive and what was not if she didn’t she should of NEVER took the job. IGNORANCE is not an excuse, but it seems you revel in it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 1, 2015 1:20 PM
Comment #400205

Warren, nobody has the ability to see the future, but everybody who has access to classified material should know proper handling and control of it.

Shouldn’t a SoS expect to receive emails that contain classified material?

Posted by: kctim at November 2, 2015 11:53 AM
Comment #400337
Shouldn’t a SoS expect to receive emails that contain classified material?

No, because the @state.gov email server is not secure enough for classified material. The State Department has a separate communication system for classified material (the diplomatic cables leaked by Julian Assange).

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 7, 2015 12:01 PM
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