Third Party & Independents Archives

Marco and Ben and Black Lives Matter

Speaking on Fox, Senator Rubio talked about Black Lives Matter - who are making a habit of disrupting campaign events for Republicans and Democrats alike - and what to do about the protests. Everyone seems to have a handy statistic on young black men and their likelihood to end up in jail or die a violent death, often at the hands of other young black males. Senator Marco, for example, stated that they are much more likely to end up in jail than go to college or university. And he mentioned the case of a friend who is a professional and black, and who in the last 18 months has been stopped 8 times while driving without being charged.

Yes there is a problem, and part of the problem is defining the problem. Is it inner city violence? Or is it a militarized police force? Is it the specter of rape and robbery - touted by some voters but not directly by any politicians - or is it police who are likely to stop you for driving-while-black, as the saying goes? It is easy to point and shout, on any side of this debate. And Black Lives Matter have certainly been doing their share of pointing and shouting and forcing the issue of police and young black males to the forefront of the news cycle. As if Ferguson, Baltimore haven't already done that on an international scale.

So aside from the pointing and shouting, what are possible solutions? For Marco Rubio, that first interaction with the law is a vital step or turning point, and we need more flexibility on the part of police and the courts to avoid locking someone - someone young and black in most cases - into a cycle of incarceration and release and further incarceration. A nice idea Marco; how do you do it? How does a police officer who has stopped a car without license plates interact with someone who has no diver's license and wants to drive away? As in the case in Cincinnati? Keep your weapon in it's holster? Call for help and start a high-speed pursuit which ends in gunfire? Let him drive away? This is not to negate the possibility of more community-based policing and less militarized policing, but the details of such a sea-change are difficult to work through and potentially dangerous for officers and the community.

That's where Ben Carson and his insistence on establishing values and a path to rise based on those values, provides helpful detail to Rubio's proposal for a more flexible policing to avoid putting young black males on a path of incarceration and release. It's a little like establishing a new social contract with them in the middle of a war zone. Both sides have to step down, but the law has to respected or else chaos will reign. As in Baltimore's inner city. And building a base of self-worth and hope means dealing with the corrosive damage that drugs continue to inflict on those same neighborhoods. Drugs that are also consumed by members of most communities in America, in most neighborhoods in America. That's a mountain of a challenge to face, while other enormous problems like debt and foreign policy and slow job growth must be dealt with - problems that are the daily issues for a clear majority of voters. Maybe Marco and Ben need to talk to each other, or borrow a little from each other's ideas. Not very likely in the middle of a ragingly competitive campaign, but useful and even necessary all the same.

Posted by AllardK at August 14, 2015 2:57 PM
Comments
Comment #397463

It would help if they weren’t treated like they are helpless dependents that can only be “helped” with government assistance.

The best thing they can do for themselves would be to realize the Democratic party isn’t “helping” them.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 14, 2015 10:57 PM
Comment #397464

Weary, perhaps this silly stereotyping you are engaging in isn’t helping either.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 15, 2015 9:31 AM
Comment #397466

How has the government helped black people? Why has the Democratic party been telling them for 50 years that all they have to do is look to the government for assistance, for equality, for restitution? Your ignorance isn’t helping either, j2t2.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 15, 2015 11:05 AM
Comment #397468

To think, Weary, that the answer to the issue is lumping all blacks together and then blaming the dems and government for helping “them” is just special IMHO. This Fox news rhetoric of yours isn’t an answer it is a problem.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 15, 2015 1:01 PM
Comment #397475

Fine, let’s call them the poor, those people who have been coddled by the federal government and the Democratic party for decades. We’ll call them the poor group, and blacks are included right alongside the white, mexican, women, gays, all poor, all included.

Now, since Johnson, the Democratic party has been telling the poor they need help, cradle to grave assistance, for the children.
Since Roosevelt, the Democratics have been using the commerce clause and the general welfare clause to destroy the individual, to control commerce, and guarantee welfare for the poor.
Neither of which were possible until Wilson and the federal government began extorting the people’s money at gunpoint to fund their welfare programs and their private bank.

And the last 30 years of dominant Republicans are being blamed for the problems caused by those actions. Blacks didn’t have these outragous behavours when they were voting for Republicans. Most of this violence is perpetrated by poeple who have lived in cities their entire lives under Democratic controlled governments!

The problems of the poor are foisted upon them by the Democatic party’s policies. Those policies need a growing poor class to support the growing programs created to solve those problems.

Don’t play ignorant, j2t2. The sooner the Democratic party gets called on it’s blunders the better this country will be.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 16, 2015 3:25 AM
Comment #397478

Willie,

Once again the right parades it’s ignorant, Fox News version of reality for the whole world to see.

The Nixon campaign for President eschewed the black vote in exchange for the white Southern negrophobe.

Kevin Phillips, who worked for the Nixon campaign in 1968 wrote a book called “The Emerging Republican Majority” that described what was known as the “Southern Strategy”.

In a 1970 interview with the New York Times he stated;

““All the talk about Republicans making inroads into the Negro vote is persiflage. Even ‘Jake the Snake’ (Senator Jacob Javits of New York) only gets 20 percent. From now on, Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote, and they don’t need any more than that… but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.”

Now there was a time when there was actual diversity in both parties. There were liberals, moderates, and yes, conservatives, even in the Democratic Party, and yes, before the ’60s the Democrats were the less tolerant party.

That ended after the ’60s, and now with the “kick the ‘Rinos’ out” policy of the tea party right I seriously doubt any return to that diversity on the right any time soon.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 16, 2015 12:48 PM
Comment #397482

It just amazes me how easily your side can resort to namecalling while expecting it to be persuasive.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 16, 2015 2:51 PM
Comment #397483

Willie,

“It just amazes me how easily your side can resort to namecalling while expecting it to be persuasive.”

Really? All this because I called your opinion ignorant?

Frankly I could give a rat’s ass if I persuade you or not. If you are incapable of understanding the actual truth, why should I care.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 16, 2015 4:33 PM
Comment #397484

I wasn’t talking about you at all, Rocky Marks. I was talking about the feeble minded author of the remark you quoted.

However, your response exemplifies the fascist attitudes of the people who brainwash you and your side with their version of what you should hear. Sucks to be you for falling on the left side of the spectrum.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 16, 2015 7:07 PM
Comment #397486

Weary your hatred and bitterness towards anyone that doesn’t fall for your line of crap is sad. The myth you perpetrate and keep trying to use as the source of the problem is off the mark when it comes to addressing the problem of black kids getting killed by police.

You hearken back to a century ago, for crying out loud, blaming Wilson and an income tax as the problem. Yet it wasn’t a problem then. You blame LBJ who wanted to address poverty instead of poverty itself! You even go so far as to tell us the social safety net is the problem and once we were rid of it I guess the problem would be solved! How foolish is that.

IMHO your a bigger problem than any of those you have mentioned. Believing the answer to the problems of poverty and ignorance is solved by allowing police to shoot young kids for trivial matters then use the “I feared for my life” line is sad Weary, trying to use these tragedies for political gain is hatred and bitterness.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 16, 2015 10:31 PM
Comment #397487

Willie,

“It just amazes me how easily your side can resort to namecalling while expecting it to be persuasive.”

“I was talking about the feeble minded author of the remark you quoted.”

My side, Seriously?
Please tell me I don’t have to explain to you which party Nixon was a member of.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at August 16, 2015 11:41 PM
Comment #397488

Your arguement is so convoluted I can’t follow it. Your entire disagreement is with words you put into my pen!

But, I’ll have to say, the hundreds and hundreds of people responding favorably to your remarks here on WatchBlog is evidence enough you’ve made your point, right?

Isn’t it great having a large and thriving audience to your thoughts available here, Rocky Marks?

The real problem here is you are unwilling and unable to entertain a point of view that isn’t your own.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 17, 2015 12:31 AM
Comment #397489

Rocky Marks, I apologize for the mistake I made in my last comment. I was addressing j2t2’s previous comment. I beg your pardon.

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 17, 2015 12:58 AM
Comment #397490
Your arguement is so convoluted I can’t follow it. Your entire disagreement is with words you put into my pen!

Weary, I paraphrased to make sure I understood your opinion on the subject. Suggesting this argument is convoluted is the result of your ramblings.

But, I’ll have to say, the hundreds and hundreds of people responding favorably to your remarks here on WatchBlog is evidence enough you’ve made your point, right?

Spoken like a true Faux news fan Weary. Comparing the number of people responding to having a valid point and all.

The real problem here is you are unwilling and unable to entertain a point of view that isn’t your own.

Weary it would be easier had you a point of view that was in the realm of reality, not some made up line blaming Wilson, FDR and LBJ for the woes of a militarized police force and poverty.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 17, 2015 8:24 AM
Comment #397492

Big government is to blame for a militarized police force and poverty. Wilson, FDR, and LBJ can be blamed for big government.

But, I’ll have to say, the hundreds and hundreds of people responding favorably to your remarks here on WatchBlog is evidence enough you’ve made your point, right?

Spoken like a true Faux news fan Weary. Comparing the number of people responding to having a valid point and all.

You sure don’t get sarcasm, do you j2t2? I can count on both hands with fingers left over the number of people who now contribute to WatchBlog.

For that I blame the arms-crossed, chin-in-chest, lower-lip-protruding, foot stomping, attitude in every comment you make in response to anyone you disagree with. Having an intelligent conversation with you is impossible.

Way to go, j2t2.


Posted by: Weary Willie at August 17, 2015 12:45 PM
Comment #397503

Interesting article from the Chicago Sun Times.

“The pickings (dems running for president) are so slim that talk is percolating about a late entrance by Joe Biden, John Kerry or even Al Gore. Anyone know how to reach Michael Dukakis?”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-democrats-hillary-clinton-bill-obama-sanders-biden-gore-kerry-edit-0816-jm-20150814-story.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 17, 2015 5:53 PM
Comment #397509

Weary, Were it true big government is responsible for poverty then why does poverty exist in other countries with small government or non existent government? While you are at it other “big government” countries don’t seem to have the same problem with poverty so why would you still be trying to convince us it is all “big government” As for police militarization the same can be said, yet you blame “big government” as if it were true.


For that I blame the arms-crossed, chin-in-chest, lower-lip-protruding, foot stomping, attitude in every comment you make in response to anyone you disagree with. Having an intelligent conversation with you is impossible.

Weary, It seems you are the PC police the way you talk. Here I thought you conservatives liked the rough and tumble insults, kinda like Limbaugh, and so many other conservatives hero’s served up for so many years. Are you suggesting you guys are to sensitive to hear someone object to your myths and misinformation by telling you it is myth and misinformation? Would you prefer I sugar coated my opinions so you would feel better? How about “Mr. Weary it seems you are the PC police the way you talk”. Umm maybe I do understand sarcasm after all.


Posted by: j2t2 at August 17, 2015 9:46 PM
Comment #397531

Poverty in the U.S. is a completely different animal, j2t2. Only in the U.S. poverty includes owning tv’s, cars, internet access, subsidised housing, utilities, and air conditioning. Poverty in the U.S. includes cereal, eggs, juice, and milk for breakfast, soft drinks, dingdongs and hohos for lunch, steak and potatoes for dinner, all in the same day, every day.

Since you bring up Limbaugh, I’ll say I love how he lives in your head, rent free, along with us “conservatives”. I love how you (emphasize “YOU”) think we enjoy insults.

I think you’re projecting, j2t2. You are guilty of all the things you claim are conservative’s traits. Perhaps you should do a little soul searching to find out what really is disagreeing with you!

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 18, 2015 5:32 PM
Comment #397538

Here you go again Weary, another myth to define poverty. The poor have it so good. We should all strive to be poor because they have it made. I know poor people here in the town I live in Weary and while they may live in low income apartments, the height of luxury according to you, they do not have air conditioning. They do not eat steak let alone steak every night. Where do you get these delusions?

Does someone really have to live in third world poverty here in this country before the government helps them? I mean we spend more on welfare for the corporations and the wealthy who do have the choice to eat steak in air conditioned luxury dwellings every night. Yet you have no problem with that, instead you take cheap shots at the down and out amongst us. BTW you missed a talking point, drugs, they are all on drugs and welfare must pay for it right?


I think you’re projecting, j2t2. You are guilty of all the things you claim are conservative’s traits

Isn’t it funny how all these conservative pundits spew hatred and insulting remarks about others for years yet they never have an audience as conservatives just don’t listen to them Mr. Weary. I actually thought I was doing a good job of being nice when you guys spout these nonsensical beliefs you have. I call them myths, misinformation, half truths and/or outright lies some times but most often I give you the benefit of my kindness with a simple “myth” instead. instead of lies Mr. Weary or has that gone unnoticed by you?

Perhaps you should do a little soul searching to find out what really is disagreeing with you!

Weary, I don’t need to soul search at all. The problem is obvious, I simply don’t like the myths you perpetrate, but it isn’t you I find disagreeable it is those conservative propagandist you get your misinformation from that I disagree with. They lead otherwise good people down the path of hatred, dividing us with these ruses.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 18, 2015 8:32 PM
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