Third Party & Independents Archives

Mrs. Undecided's Followers

The leader in the GOP race according to a recent national poll by Monmouth University is a candidate named Mrs. Undecided. With almost double the numbers at 20 points of second place Ben Carson who has 11, Mrs. Undecided is the clear leader at this point in the GOP race, having surged over 6 points in 2 months. With a wide field of candidates, it’s not surprising that undecideds - as the followers of Mrs. Undecided are called - are high. Looking at the top issues of concern to GOP voters:

National Security
Gun Control
Immigration
Taxes

With National Security and Gun Control in the 70% plus range of importance and Immigration and Taxes in the 50% plus range, it seems clear why Bush has slipped and why relatively low-ranked Ted Cruz still has a very high favorable rating. It does not take much imagination to guess which way most of the polled GOP voters lean on the 4 above issues. And that means that GOP voters are not what Jeb Bush thought they would be last year when putting together his campaign team. The question seems to be what kind of a conservative GOP voters prefer, and conservative itself means a different set of issues in 2015-2016 than it did 20 or even 10 years ago.

National Security is mostly about IS and failures in Iraq, by the Iraqi governments in the last decade and by the US and it's allies, and arguably about whether to have entered Iraq at all over ten years ago. It should be kept in mind that IS has similar, nearly identical, goals to those previously exposed by Osama Bin Laden and al Qaeda. Whether they would have grown as rapidly as they have with Saddam Hussein still in power is for military historians to debate. The Syrian Civil War is probably more important in tracing IS growth than Iraq but, again, that is for historians. Right now, they are growing and America's response is vital. And every GOP candidate will have to present a compelling plan showing how they would deal with IS as well as with other issues of national security.

Views on gun control go beyond second amendment rights and delve into state and local control versus federal regulations and the battle between the two. Immigration is as immediate - if not as dangerous - an issue as National Security and Taxes are high and need to come down and which GOP candidate would argue with that? It may be that National Security and Immigration are the issues that will be trickiest for a number of the GOP field. But clear answers from the candidates on these top issues are not just about pulling in front in a packed field, it's about not being left behind in a hurry. To make sure Mrs. Undecided does not run away with this race, the GOP really should try to include as many of the top 16 or 15 candidates in the first round of debates. If that means two separate debates, all the better.

Posted by AllardK at June 15, 2015 6:36 PM
Comments
Comment #395903

Things are so bad for the GOP that Dr. Ben Carson leads the pack despite this happening:

“… the retired neurosurgeon’s campaign chairman, national finance chairman, deputy campaign manager and general counsel have resigned since Carson formally launched his bid last month in Detroit. They have not been replaced, campaign aides said.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ben-carsons-campaign-faces-turmoil-after-staff-exits-and-super-pac-chaos/2015/06/05/ce08f9b2-0ba8-11e5-a7ad-b430fc1d3f5c_story.html

Yeah. That happened. An incompetent politician who cannot even run a campaign is ahead of the others.

The problem for the GOP is that they are on the wrong side of national security, gun control (if that is even an issue), immigration, and taxes.

The GOP does not know what it believes when it comes to foreign policy, other than it is against whatever Obama does. The moment anyone asks a candidate for specifics about IS or Iraq, they fall apart because they do not know what to do. Senator Graham is the only one honest enough to say- he wants to send troops to the Middle East- and he is polling about 1%. With the margin of error, maybe he is in negative numbers! Heh. The simple fact is that the fear of IS is way out of proportion to the threat. Fear may be the party platform, but it will not work well in a general election.

The purpose of a gun is to put holes in people. The GOP is in favor of that. Good luck with gun control as an issue. I’m not sure how that is going to generate any votes outside the NRA.

The GOP is divided on immigration. The establishment wants amnesty. The base wants deportation. The general public favors immigration reform @ 60/40, and the percentage is much higher among Hispanics. Without the Hispanic vote the GOP is doomed in 2016, yet their base demands repugnant policies.

Taxes? The one thing all the GOP candidates seem to be in favor of is cutting taxes for corporations… Way to go, conservatives. Have fun running on that platform.

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 12:37 PM
Comment #395904

“The establishment wants amnesty. The base wants deportation.”

Yup, and this writer has written here that he/she/it is in favor of open borders. Wow…that will generate a landslide victory if Hillary adopts that position.

The Left seems content with an old and tired repeat candidate with old and tired repeat liberal positions.

They seem to have noticed how well that worked for the GOP when they nominated Bob Dole and McCain.

The purpose of a gun is to fire a bullet. In some cases, it may save your life or the life of others. Let’s not disarm the police or qualified citizens.

obama can’t even spell National Security much less plan a strategy. He leads from behind. We just don’t know from behind “what”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 12:52 PM
Comment #395905

The Donald announced he is running for president!!! This will be the best campaign ever!!!

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 1:22 PM
Comment #395906

Donald Trump on national security:
“No one would be tougher on ISIS than Trump.”

He refers to himself in the third person! Yes!

He is against gun control, whatever that means.

The Donald wants address the issue of immigration by building a huge fence along the Mexican border- and then make Mexico pay for it! Yes!

On taxes- he will not raise them.

And the GOP will be powerless to stop this guy from talking. He is like a walking, talking caricature of the worst of the GOP base, and he claims to be worth $8.7 billion, so he is going to fund his own campaign and he is going to keep talking, and he cannot be stopped. Yes!

From earlier this year: “The last thing we need is another Bush.”

Democrats are doing cartwheels. And you know if a pollster accidentally polls Democrats for who they favor in the GOP primaries, they will reply ‘Trump!’ with a gleam in their eye.

And just imagine Carson and Trump on the same stage! This is awesome!

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 2:27 PM
Comment #395908

“On taxes- he will not raise them.”

LOL…wow, raising taxes is sooooo popular.

…fund his own campaign…”

And, beholden to no one.

…a huge fence along the Mexican border…”

To finish what Americans want.

Then we have “THE” Hillary. Higher taxes, more illegals entering the country, more government regulations, less freedom From government, more divisive policies, more subsidies to those unwilling to work, and above all, cronyism that will exceed even “The” obama.

The libs can’t find a new face or new ideas. The Right is abundant in both.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 3:07 PM
Comment #395909

RF, “We just don’t know from behind “what”. “

I would say from behind 65,918,507 American voters that decided to elect him to his second term in office.

Hillary Clinton is no Bob Dole or John McCain, thank goodness. Much to your chagrin.

After 10 years of President Obama in office your criticisms of our President are trite. Not to mention old, stale, overblown, useless and without merit.

I have told you before you really need a new schtick, this one is getting very, very old. Try to focus on what you think the conservative candidates can do for you and I and the rest of this country and then expound on that, maybe?

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 3:08 PM
Comment #395910

Howdy Speak…nice to hear your usual spin.

We both know the obama ship is sinking and even the Dems are jumping off.

Poor Hillary. She must defend obama’s failed policies and has nothing new of her own.

Be kind to Hillary Speak and lend her some of your spin expertise.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 3:13 PM
Comment #395913

RF, again with spin. Your tired references are seeming more silly all the time now. Learn a new word, please.

Hillary won’t need my assistance. She is a formidable candidate that has the conservatives/Republicans quaking and shaking. Given all of the nonsense we see from them, they are having a hard time trying to tell us what they can do. Of course that could be because they have no idea what they could or would do.

The Obama ship will be sailing through the last 18 months of his Presidency and those of us who supported him all the way feel his accomplishments will be looked back on as many and very successful. We both know that you use canards and falsehoods to try to bolster your dislike of our President but even you are having a hard time believing yourself.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 3:32 PM
Comment #395915

“RF, again with spin.”

I just call it like I read it Speak.

Your defense of the indefensible (obama as a world leader or military strategist) would be laudable if not so insanely ridiculous.

I wouldn’t even want him leading a troop of boy scouts. They would be lost with him deserting them for the golf course.

obama has been a disaster for our country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 3:44 PM
Comment #395916

With such a weak president we will find much more aggression by those who can and will take advantage of him. I am not aware of a single ally who trusts him. Our enemies outwit him. Americans are tired of him. He should simply resign.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 3:59 PM
Comment #395917

RF, we all know how you feel about our President, no matter how misguided that is. You call it like you know something but when you rely on the same word over and over and over again, it is very easy to see you know a word and not much else when it comes to the estimation of a President’s capability. Now I don’t doubt that you feel you are qualified to be critical of a man that was elected and re-elected as our President but a lot of us here read you for what you are becoming, a cynical fellow that doesn’t apply the good sense that you should have been endowed with but choose not to use.

C’mon tell us how your candidates are going to be so much awesomely better than that bad old Obama.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 4:01 PM
Comment #395918

RF, you’ve been saying and wishing that for 10 years.

Go ask Osama Bin Laden how weak Obama is.

You present very weak arguments regarding your dislike of our President, besides being completely unsubstantiated.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 4:03 PM
Comment #395919

“The problem for the GOP is that they are on the wrong side of national security, gun control (if that is even an issue), immigration, and taxes”

Good god Phx8, I REALLY hope leftists convince Hillary to run on those things.

National security? Obama dropped the ball on the IS JV team, Iran, Putin and Israel. All a good opponent has to do is talk about making the US strong and respected again.

Gun control? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE run on further infringing on our 2nd Amendment rights with more government control. Oh, and yes, it is still an issue, especially for those who still support individual rights and freedoms and don’t live in fear of their own shadow.
You want people who don’t normally vote to show up at the polls? Threaten to take away their 2nd Amendment rights. LOL!

Immigration? Reform doesn’t mean amnesty or open borders, but you guys go on and keep pretending that is what Americans really want. All a good candidate has to do is talk about protecting Americans with better laws.

Taxes? Pretty much already a done deal. Multi-millionaire Hillary will promise to take from the wealthy and her irresponsible greedy voters will eat it up. And a good opponent will promise lower taxes and those voters will eat that up.

It’s going to be close, but Hillary will probably win. There are now more materialistic, irresponsible, greedy dependent people than there are Americans, and when you combine that with the pathetic ‘just because she is a woman’ voters, she has the edge.

Posted by: kctim at June 16, 2015 4:08 PM
Comment #395920

“…a man that was elected and re-elected as our President…”

LOL, is that all you have Speak. Hmmm, wasn’t there a president by the name of Bush who did the same?

Speak, I know you don’t believe most of what you write about obama. How do I know? You are a reasonable thinking and loving person. No one with those attributes could possibly believe the tripe you write.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 4:19 PM
Comment #395922

kctim,
IS is not nearly as formidable as we believe. The problem is the Iraqis will not fight. IS took Ramadi with less than 300 soldiers. The Iraqi Army threw down their weapons and deserted, and once again, IS has been armed with US weapons. The problem is that the Iraqi Sunnis prefer IS to the US & the Shia Iraqi government. We should have divided the country a long time ago, and now it is happening anyway.
That has little to do with the US or Obama. This was baked into the cake a long time ago.

Obama dropped the ball on Iran? Putin? Israel? I have no idea what you are talking about. We are negotiating with Iran. The Russian economy got crushed. So much for the invasion of Ukraine.

The US is viewed more favorably by every country in the world since Obama took office, with the exceptions of Israel and Pakistan. That is what polls show.

Polls also show Americans favor immigration reform.

Not only do I think Hillary will win, I think it will be a landslide.

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 4:26 PM
Comment #395923

RF,that is all I need to refute your unsubstantiated nonsense. Please none of us need reminders of Bush, not even his supporters want to be reminded. I don’t like to speak ill of anyone that has attained the office of President of our country and still haven’t because I believe that it wouldn’t be something that a good American should do.

You can believe that I believe what I write about President Obama, that is for certain. I can’t believe that after over 10 years you just keep on stating the ridiculous, over and over and over again. What was that definition of insanity that Einstein gave? Something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 4:36 PM
Comment #395926

It really is sad Speak, that you, a grown and educated man can’t think for himself, but rather, must become a reverberation board for a failed political philosophy.

Liberalism in the US, as practiced and preached today, is failing politically and socially. Given the levers of power, those who practice the liberal brand of leadership have cost our nation and our people in a grossly negative way.

We are a poorer nation, we are a more divisive nation, we are a less educated nation, and we are a less respected nation than before obama came to power.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 5:18 PM
Comment #395927

RF, that is what you think and you are able to think that because of our great country. That doesn’t mean I can’t dispute your falsehoods and fear mongering. I do that all the time. Liberalism is alive and well in our country and will be for a long, long time to come. Given the trajectory of their ideas and policies I find it difficult to say the same about conservatism, much as I would like it to not be that way. I have no control over the their ideas and policies but I’m fairly certain that unless a less judgmental and more encompassing idea and policy begins to take hold from within the conservative movement they will be relegated to the dustbin of political partisanship and rightfully so. Maybe a person such as yourself could help bring them back from the brink by using less rhetorical and inciting statements and more discussion about how they can improve the lives of Americans?

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 5:31 PM
Comment #395928

A tenet of the liberal religion is that the US can continue to write checks to itself and never face the consequences.

Try this Speak and become an instant millionaire. Write a check for a million dollars and deposit it in your bank account. When the bank refused to cash the check simply tell them that your children and grandchildren will back the check with their future earnings.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 5:35 PM
Comment #395929

Speaks…”Given the trajectory of their ideas and policies I find it difficult to say the same about conservatism…”

Please tell us Speak what conservative policies are being followed today?

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 5:43 PM
Comment #395930

RF, “A tenet of the liberal religion is that the US can continue to write checks to itself and never face the consequences.” again with another canard? Just because you write a comment does not make it the truth. Don’t you get tired of relying on canards and falsehoods to try to twist your irrelevant point home? I know some of us here are very tired of this behavior. You can do better and should at least try.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 5:44 PM
Comment #395932

Speak, I challenge you to find any liberal, including yourself, that doesn’t believe in continuing deficit spending.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 5:47 PM
Comment #395933

RF, I don’t know perhaps you can expound? You see I do not support or condone conservatism and would expect you to come up with that instead of the pap that you do now.

All I see are attempts being made to limit women’s authority over their own physical well being, attempts to limit voting rights for minorities, attempts to force religion into government, attempts to make guns available to those who probably shouldn’t have them, attempts to use any and all means to make certain that we are unable to progress as a nation. There is much, much more but I don’t have the time or possess the willingness to expound on that nonsense. Besides once conservatism is relegated to that dustbin there will be time enough to forget their misguided ideas to be forgotten. Just keep it up, we’ll get there.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 5:50 PM
Comment #395934

RF, only as necessary and until we can reach stability economically. You just don’t understand that thought because of the simplicity of it.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 16, 2015 5:52 PM
Comment #395935

Phx8

IS has the manpower, weapons and support to wage their ‘war’ in the area. They inspire fear and have proven themselves quite capable.
To downplay their effect on the area simply because nobody knows what to do, or don’t have the guts to do, is ridiculous.
To remove the US from the situation, just to protect Obama and/or blame the evil Republicans and Bush, does nothing to address the problem we face today.
The problem isn’t any of the excuses you can come up with, it’s IS and those who support them.

We will be “negotiating” with Iran until they have attained the nukes they want. They are playing the game and we are the ones blinking first.

The US and Russia have moved further apart under Obama and Russia is looking towards China.
Putin thumbed his nose at the world, and the US, and annexed Crimea without a fight.
He could invade the Ukraine and take it anytime he wants, but why? It is much easier to let them fight it out and have them beg him to step in, again.

Of course other countries view us favorably, we are throwing away our form of government and adopting theirs.

Israel is one of our best allies, so them not viewing us favorably shouldn’t be seen as a good thing.

I did not say Americans did not favor immigration reform, I said they do not favor amnesty and open borders.
If you think, in this terrible economy, that Hillary can win by promising amnesty to 15+ million illegal aliens and the millions more who will come, then please, insist she runs on that.

Posted by: kctim at June 16, 2015 5:56 PM
Comment #395936

Finally, an honest answer from Speak. Deficit spending will never end as liberal policies will never result in a stable economy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 5:59 PM
Comment #395937

Royal

If he believes any of that nonsense he just posted about women, voting and guns, then there is no doubt, or surprise, that he believe in continuing deficit spending.

Posted by: kctim at June 16, 2015 6:00 PM
Comment #395938

KC, I have come to understand that liberal belief is based upon magical thinking.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 6:07 PM
Comment #395939

What is all this incoherent stuff about deficit spending by liberals?

Up until the Obama administration, 90% of the debt was accumulated under three Republican presidents: Reagan, Bush, and Bush. They engaged in broad scale deficit spending. They increased it. They did so chiefly through a combination of tax cuts and military spending. (Under Bush #43 rising Health Care costs also played a role).

When the economy collapsed in 2008, Obama and the Democrats inherited a broken economy. The liberals fixed it. The federal deficit has been REDUCED every single year of Obama’s presidency. We went from economic crash to a boom: interest rates are low, inflation is low, the stock market is now the second longest bull market in US history, the economy is growing, it just added 290,000 non-payroll jobs, and so on, and so on.

The deficit spending done by liberals was not to fund wars or tax cuts by the rich. It was done to save the country’s economy, and it worked. We all wish the economy did not need to be saved after 2008, but it did, thanks to disastrous conservative policies.

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 6:19 PM
Comment #395940

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/dueling-debt-deceptions/

“…the nation’s total debt stood at $10.6 trillion on the day Obama took office, and it had increased to nearly $15.4 trillion by the end of January 2012 — a rise of more than $4.7 trillion in just over three years.

That’s a huge increase to be sure — 44.5 percent. And the Congressional Budget Office now projects that it will grow to more than $16 trillion by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept. 30. At that point, the debt will have increased by more dollars in Obama’s first four years than it did in George W. Bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion. The rise under Obama would then be the biggest dollar increase for any president in U.S. history.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 6:54 PM
Comment #395942

Speak, when one considers what obama spent and what we got for it; there is no doubt that his administration is a miserable failure.

Throwing darts (representing the money spent) randomly at a board would have achieved at least as good, and perhaps better, results. Add in the many lost opportunities in foreign policy, underemployment, poverty and our miserable record of border control; one can not help but admit that this bum is the worst ever president.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 16, 2015 7:12 PM
Comment #395944

Yes, RF, a great deal of debt was run up under Obama. He started with a trillion dollar budget deficit, a stock market crash, a housing market crash, over 600,000 non-farm payroll jobs lost in just one month, a credit crunch that threatened to collapse the entire system, the failure of several large corporations, and the eventual cratering of the whole financial sector.

Obama did not institute tax cuts for rich. He did not push unnecessary wars. He faced economic catastrophe, by some measures even worse than the Great Depression, and his administration made the right choices. We escaped a
Great Depression scenario. We escaped the Lost Decade scenario suffered by Japan. And it came at a price.

Now we have enjoyed the best economy in modern times. The deficit has declined every single year of his administration, and the total debt has stabilized at a lower number than anyone expected.

Posted by: phx8 at June 16, 2015 9:05 PM
Comment #395945

Royal,

You need to check out a more recent factcheck report on Obama. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/01/obamas-numbers-january-2015-update/

“Jobs, paychecks, corporate profits and stock prices have all improved since our last report on the Obama statistical record. Some highlights:
The economy has now gained nearly five times more jobs under President Barack Obama than it did during the presidency of George W. Bush, and the unemployment rate has dropped to just below the historical average…..”

Posted by: Rich at June 16, 2015 9:19 PM
Comment #395946

There is a more recent factcheck report on Obama’s numbers. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/

Pretty good by most standards. But, it can’t be true since everyone knows that he is a “bum” and the worst president ever.

Posted by: Rich at June 16, 2015 9:25 PM
Comment #395949

Royal, what an ass you are my friend for continuing to propagate conservative myths with no regard for the truth. Why on earth would you think you can get away with this garbage here on WB?

It was a conservative president,GWB, A conservative congress led by a conservative child molester, Hasert, and Lott that sent us into Iraq and charged the war on a credit card while cutting taxes! Not only that they passed the “no child left behind” education law that we labor under today. (Yet you have the audacity to blame Obama for the floundering education system) Yet you tell us it is the liberals, how foolish can you get?

As far as economics, conservative economics to be specific, one word Royal- Kansas, look it up and let the reality of conservative ideology sink in, you fool.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 16, 2015 11:08 PM
Comment #395954

RF, your dishonesty in discussions is making it very difficult to communicate with you. Please stop that and try to use your better senses. You ask me a question, I give you an answer and you turn the words of my answer into your partisan BS. You are becoming as bad as kct. Your statement “Deficit spending will never end as liberal policies will never result in a stable economy.” has been proven untrue by phx8’s comment. Besides it didn’t address the question you posed and my response, another canard was used to support your feeble feelings and misgivings. Just as kct tries draw a correlation of my views of the conservative movement towards some American voters with “If he believes any of that nonsense he just posted about women, voting and guns, then there is no doubt, or surprise, that he believe in continuing deficit spending.”, again a canard used to support the feebleness of reasoning used. The pretzel logic necessary to follow both of your conclusions is so evident that anyone with a casual observance is unable to not dispute your contentions. Please try to make sense. I know that is not easy since you allow yourselves to be led around by your noses for news by spouting the nonsense you both submerge yourselves in. But at least try to make sense.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 9:30 AM
Comment #395958

Sorry Speaks, but what you posted about women, voting and guns was indeed nonsense. Nothing but the exact same opinionated talking-points promoted in the media and found on other boards. But yet others are the ones being led around by their noses?

“limit women’s authority over their own physical well being,”

1. Believing women should be responsible for their own physical well being has nothing to do with limiting their authority over it.
2. The anti-abortion debate is about the life inside the woman, NOT about controlling women. That is why it is called pro-life.
3. I am pro-abortion and I am more than willing to vote for those on the right.

“attempts to limit voting rights for minorities,”

1. The majority of Americans support some form of voter ID.
2. IF a person wants to vote, an ID will not limit their ability to vote.
3. I don’t really support an ID, but the free for all we have now has its problems.

“attempts to force religion into government,”

1. An individual exercising their religious beliefs is NOT forcing their religion on you.
2. Government not writing laws preventing people from exercising their religion, is NOT forcing religion into government.
3. I am an atheist and have never had religion forced upon me.

“attempts to make guns available to those who probably shouldn’t have them,”

1. The right to keep and bear arms is a Constitutional right. Support of that right does not equal support for nuts shooting people.
2. We already have laws to prevent those who probably shouldn’t have them from getting them, so how will further infringement on our rights make things better?

“attempts to use any and all means to make certain that we are unable to progress as a nation”

1. Throwing away the foundation our nation was founded on is NOT progress.
2. The desire to respect the guidelines our founders gave us, does not mean one is unwilling to progress as a nation.

Fact is, Speaks, is that I can point out exactly why it is nonsense, and it is only your inability to back up what you say, that results in any “pretzel logic” you may find necessary.

Posted by: kctim at June 17, 2015 1:00 PM
Comment #395960

kct, you use your convoluted understanding of our constitution to defend your positions and I can understand that. Your strict adherence to the constitution defies the document itself, but I know you will never understand that. Let’s just say we disagree about that, K?

So you are pro-abortion? I know no liberals or progressives that would term it that way. Pro-choice is something we believe a woman should be able to maintain in her life, the life of another is inherent to her wishes. I guess we can disagree about that but you always seem more than willing to side with the right in so many instances that we all have a difficult time believing that you are not partisan. The voting capabilities of minorities, students and the elderly is being infringed upon more stridently by limiting the ability to early voting and polling stations availability and nonsense ID requisites. But again you side with the right on this, your partisan slip is showing again. Government supporting religion such as magic symbols and magic sayings has ingrained into our existence and some of us feel that should be curtailed. Any additional gun control done in a reasonable manner should be pursued, I really don’t care how you feel about that but again your support for the rights position on this says a lot (we are all tired of the ruse). Your defense is laden with partisanship and hysteria. You are nothing if not persistent in the idea that you are correct and no one else can be. That is not very conducive to a discussion that some people like to have on this blog.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 2:17 PM
Comment #395961

My liberal friends remain confused about the difference between a Republican and a Conservative.

We certainly know that not every Democrat is a Liberal. Why insist that every Conservative is a Republican?

Bragging about our economy is simply outrageous. More Americans are getting federal government economic help than ever in our history. Our national debt is mountainous and likely never, ever to be paid down to a Trillion or two.

If and when interest rates rise, as they surely will, just the interest on our present debt will curtail much of the spending on social programs.

Yet, liberals dance like fairies with their magical notions of unending deficit spending without consequences.

It is interesting how the liberals on WB stick together in their Pollyanna-like beliefs. Guess they all went to the same liberal school of economics.

To those who can’t help slinging mud and name-calling I simply say I pity you.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 3:04 PM
Comment #395962

RF, pitiful could be a good description of your attempts to denigrate liberals. I have seen no evidence of any dancing like fairies for unending deficit spending. Please stop using unsubstantiated comments to support your belief concerning liberals. Try to stick to what they say and not what you think they mean. You are a fine one to talk about slinging mud, something about glass houses and rock throwing comes to mind.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 3:18 PM
Comment #395963

Speak, crawl back into your cozy magical nest with the rest of your liberal critters. You must first learn to read before you can understand the writing on the wall.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 3:46 PM
Comment #395964

RF, I have no idea of what you type about. Please try to remember you need to try to express yourself in a method that others can understand. Speaking of crawling, why not just attempt a civil discussion instead of crawling around like some uninformed troll. You must tell me more about this magical wall that you can see somewhere in the ether.

My magical senses tell me you seem to be frustrated with not being able to all us liberals what they should and shouldn’t do. Get over it, not gonna happen. It’s a free country.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 4:04 PM
Comment #395965

“RF, I have no idea of what you type about.”

Of course you don’t. Severe liberal blinders will do that.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 4:21 PM
Comment #395966

RF, how about putting that in terms that we can all understand? Your constant reference to the limitations of liberals seems to be fogging your otherwise somewhat sensible commenting skills. Maybe you should not think about us so much and think about how you can improve your ability to communicate with others?

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 4:34 PM
Comment #395967

Sorry Speak, I won’t “dumb down” my comments to compensate for your woeful education.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 4:39 PM
Comment #395968

RF, I guess I will just have to agree with j2t2 now, “what an ass you are my friend”.

Let me leave you with a quote by Samuel Johnson:

“A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation. This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion.”

He is also the man that said:

“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”

You might fit that last description aptly.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 17, 2015 4:47 PM
Comment #395969

The Budget Control Act is one of the reasons that the budget deficit fell from the towering heights of more than $1.4 trillion of red ink in 2009 to less than $500 billion in 2014.

Despite liberals on WB hailing this achievement as belonging to obama policies, the truth is that reducing government spending, as Conservatives advocate, is working.

The Budget Control Act of 2011 (BCA) has shrunk the size of government more effectively than any budget tool in a generation. Total federal outlays have fallen from $3.603 trillion in 2011 to $3.506 trillion in 2014. The economy and jobs have picked up steam as the government has shrunk.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 4:55 PM
Comment #395971

Wow Speak, I am surprised you, of all people, would use the quote you posted since the liberal wing-nut part of the Dem party is nothing, if not, divisive. The dem candidates and leading spokespersons, for the most part, pander to the rabble and seek to appease them with the property of others.

However, I do understand that those with limited education often post that which they don’t understand.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 17, 2015 6:20 PM
Comment #395973
My liberal friends remain confused about the difference between a Republican and a Conservative.

Royal, I would suggest you have the same problem. You like to dismiss the GWB administration as anything but conservative. Would you suggest Dick Armey, Trent Lott and Dennis Hasert were not conservatives? Yet you resort to this foolish ruse every time you face a reality check. I noticed you didn’t mention Kansas in your blathering, are you suggesting Brownback and his followers in the Kansas legislature aren’t conservatives?

We certainly know that not every Democrat is a Liberal. Why insist that every Conservative is a Republican?

Royal, my contention has never been every conservative is a repub as we know dems accept conservatives into their ranks as well. I would however say the ranks of repubs have been cleared of anything but conservatives. The difference is in degrees extremist conservative to rabid conservative is the difference between elected repubs with little exception.


Bragging about our economy is simply outrageous. More Americans are getting federal government economic help than ever in ourstory. Our national debt is mountainous and likely never, ever to be paid down to a Trillion or two.

I agree Royal. But how did we get there? Supply side economics or as GWHB told us voodoo economics. That and the mistaken belief in tax cuts as the answer to every problem. Hell Royal while your head was buried in the sand your conservative leaders gave tax credits to ship jobs overseas and then laugh at you as you complain that “More Americans are getting federal government economic help than ever in our history”. Your conservative leaders, yes conservative leaders not repub leaders, ran up an unfunded mandate for Medicare. They ran the Iraq war on a credit card and off the books while evidently your head was up your a**. Obama brought the war debt back on the books and you blame him for the debt. Of course being a conservative you cannot accept this failure of conservative ideology without resorting to such foolishness as “well they aren’t conservatives” but my friend you are only fooling yourself.

If and when interest rates rise, as they surely will, just the interest on our present debt will curtail much of the spending on social programs.

Yet we will continue to spend more than the next dozen or so countries on the military. Even though 10 or so of those countries are allies. This is due to conservative ideology Royal. But why should you care, you got your share of those social programs so screw the next generation, another conservative principle.

To those who can’t help slinging mud and name-calling I simply say I pity you.

Seems to me Royal it is you that continues on with the conservative myths or mud slinging as you say. I would also suggest you read what you spew before you call anyone out on name calling.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 17, 2015 11:34 PM
Comment #395974

Royal, here is the story on the compassionate conservative error…er..umm…era …


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/17/ron-christie/gop-strategist-christie-tax-revenues-rose-after-bu/

so please stop with the myths, you are worse than Jeb with his outright lies of a 4% growth by cutting taxes and regulations.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 18, 2015 12:42 AM
Comment #395975

Speaks

Well, I actually use our nations history, the words of our founders and the document itself for my understanding of the Constitution, so yes, we are going to disagree about it. And I’m perfectly ok with that.

You make a valid point about my arguments siding with the right most times. As I am a Constitutionalist, it is only a matter of fact that I will agree with the right more so than the left.

“Pro-choice is something we believe a woman should be able to maintain in her life, the life of another is inherent to her wishes.”

That’s all fine and dandy, but that does not mean people who disagree with you desire to “limit women’s authority over their own physical well being.”

“The voting capabilities of minorities, students and the elderly is being infringed upon more stridently by limiting the ability to early voting and polling stations availability and nonsense ID requisites.”

The lack of special treatment does not equal “attempts to limit voting rights” for people.

“Government supporting religion such as magic symbols and magic sayings has ingrained into our existence and some of us feel that should be curtailed.”

No it hasn’t. The religious symbols and sayings have been a part of nations history since its beginning.
The resistance to removing them does not equal “attempts to force religion into government.”

“Any additional gun control done in a reasonable manner should be pursued,”

Luckily, that action must be done with respect to the 2nd Amendment, and support of that does not equal “make guns available to those who probably shouldn’t have them.”

“I really don’t care how you feel about that but again your support for the rights position on this says a lot (we are all tired of the ruse).”

History and recent court rulings do not agree with the liberal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. I am on the right side.

“Your defense is laden with partisanship and hysteria.”

This is a political discussion board, Speaks. It is divided into three sections where people argue their case. Everybody’s responses are full of partisanship. The key is to state your case and NOT take disagreement personal.

If you think I am wrong because of partisanship or hysteria, then use the facts to prove me wrong. If you can’t prove me wrong, then do what others seem to like to do and just move on.

“You are nothing if not persistent in the idea that you are correct and no one else can be.”

I am persistent in my belief that I am correct until the facts prove me wrong.

“That is not very conducive to a discussion that some people like to have on this blog.”

So I’ve been doing this all wrong for over a decade? Damn

Posted by: kctim at June 18, 2015 9:33 AM
Comment #395976

RF, let’s dissect Mr. Johnson’s paragraph statement sentence by sentence and see how it applies to yourself and your conservative cohorts:

“A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation.”
You constantly foment your discontent, you also like to suggest that our President and government is secretive and dangerous, you and your ilk constantly harp on your violated rights and the encroachment of those.
“This practice is no certain note of patriotism.”
Read that carefully, you don’t understand it but try to get someone who knows words better than you do to explain it.
“To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it.”
You gleefully try to instigate others to assume your rage, we do not.
“He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace.”
For all of your pomposity and professed love of our country your seditious comments belie that.
“Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion.”
Your leaders and politicians appeal to you, the rabble, without reason and understanding and play on your contagion of dislike of government and your lack of understanding.

Now for the last quote:
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
You sir are a scoundrel! Your treatment of others making comments here is evidence of that fact. You do not deserve the leeway you are given here by others but because we all understand that this is an internet blog we can only surmise that you gain some titillation for making the outlandish and denigrating comments to others that you do, childish behavior.

Understand this RF, you are unable to express yourself and your ideas without demeaning or denigrating another. That is sad and despicable but it is what we have come to expect from you.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 18, 2015 10:03 AM
Comment #395977

kct, I have no idea what you have been doing wrong and frankly don’t care.

I laid out the facts and you disagree with them, again I don’t care.

There will be less limitations put on a woman’s ability to make decisions for her own well being, even if that includes the life of another, that is inevitable. Voting rights will be reinstated within short time since every good American knows that voting rights are a tenet of our country and should be defended by everyone. I don’t care if you think that is special treatment. Yes religion has been around a long time but as we progress as a society it will be removed from government and thrive in it’s rightful place, those that want it. Gun control again is inevitable and will be used to protect the citizens of this country.

Now I can read your partisanship and hysteria very well but do you understand that you propagate that? I don’t think so. Please point to any hysteria you think I might display, a casual observance of your comments leads most to believe you hold much dislike for others that disagree with you and attempt to use that with a sense of hysteria and partisanship.

We need you in this country, just as we need others however you seem to think that if your supposed “facts” are not proven right and accepted that you are somehow being ignored. That could be true as we do tend to ignore obvious attempts to “demand” acceptance.

Posted by: Speak4all at June 18, 2015 10:20 AM
Comment #395978

What I understand Speak, is that most liberals are part-time Constitutional advocates and full-time big government adherents.

I disagree with liberal political philosophy and practice in the same fashion our founders did. They knew your ilk would someday raise their ugly politics and designed a document that makes your idea of America nearly impossible to maintain over a period of time.

It is heartless what liberals have done to the poor and disadvantaged in this country. You have made their plight an institution to be protected to ensure their vote.

The liberal philosophy concerning individual freedom, property rights, rule of law and morality is in opposition to our founders and a plague upon our citizens.

Liberal political and social philosophy is leading this nation into poverty, rule by pandering, and gross immorality.

I will not suffer from your greed and contempt for our founding documents, but my children and grandchildren surely will if conservatives fail in their efforts to reverse our present course.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 18, 2015 11:49 AM
Comment #395980

“Liberal political and social philosophy is leading this nation into poverty, rule by pandering, and gross immorality.”

Conservatives have been saying this since the election of FDR in 1932. In fact, they have been saying this since Jefferson.

Posted by: Rich at June 18, 2015 6:30 PM
Comment #395981

Rich, please name the party or political leaders of Jefferson’s day that would be considered similar to today’s liberals advocating bigger federal government, deficit spending, greater government regulation of private individuals and businesses, largess from the federal treasury for social spending, and so much more liberal crap that dominates today.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 18, 2015 6:48 PM
Comment #395985
full-time big government adherents
And that is where you are wrong. As long as you believe the myth that we support big government you will be unable to comprehend what we write.
I disagree with liberal political philosophy and practice in the same fashion our founders did.

Considering that the founders participated in an armed rebellion against the conservative government of Lord North and founded a new nation based upon Lockean Liberalism I find the statement ridiculous.

please name the party or political leaders of Jefferson’s day that would be considered similar to today’s liberals advocating bigger federal government, deficit spending, greater government regulation of private individuals and businesses, largess from the federal treasury for social spending, and so much more liberal crap that dominates today.
Once again, you have naively confounded liberalism with statism. Liberals have never argued for any of those things. We support protecting individual rights and liberties, which means preventing the violation of such by other individuals or entities with the aid of the government’s cudgel. This is a logical extension of classical liberalism. This might result in additional government regulations, but increasing the power of the state is not the end goal. Posted by: Warren Porter at June 19, 2015 11:14 AM
Comment #395986

Surely you jest Warren by comparing the liberalism of John Locke with liberalism as practiced today. There are simply no comparisons to be found.

Please elaborate on your stand against “big government”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 19, 2015 3:41 PM
Comment #395995

Royal, who advocates bigger federal government? Hell it was conservatives that had the PATRIOT ACT ready in 3 days, although both parties did pass the bill that went to a conservative administration for signature, it was conservatives that put the government into our lives so intrusively.
It has been conservatives in state legislatures that have passed restrictive voter laws for the oligarchy and restrictive abortion laws to force their religious beliefs onto others by force of law that put the government between women and their doctors, so get off your myth that it is liberals that are part time.

Or is it just money that you consider to be big government? Lets look at that. The military, I know you refuse to see the facts but conservatives just tried to increase the military budget once again while claiming we are in so much debt. Despite the fact that we spend more than the next 10 countries combined.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/military-spending-cuts/u-s-military-spending-dwarfs-rest-world-n37461

Conservative administrations, unless of course the deity Reagan isn’t considered conservative have increased the non war debt more than one would think for those who claim to be fiscally responsible, Hell they even borrowed from Social Security to conceal the fact they are big spenders as well as cutting taxes! Yet you have the audacity to think it is the liberals, my god man get a grip reality has left you holding the foolish bag.

It is heartless what liberals have done to the poor and disadvantaged in this country. You have made their plight an institution to be protected to ensure their vote.

So you think us liberals should jump on the conservative bandwagon and tell them they have it better than a href=”http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/01/26/commentary/world-commentary/are-the-poor-better-off-than-king-louis-xiv/#.VYSlsUarhcs”>kings in the past!

low buffoonery Royal you suffer from low buffoonery the result of not dealing with factual information,IMHO, and too many myths.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 19, 2015 7:43 PM
Comment #396006

Government is not a monolith. Today it is too big in some areas (such as occupational licensing and zoning regulations) and too small in others (such as environmental protection).

Posted by: Warren Porter at June 20, 2015 9:37 AM
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