Third Party & Independents Archives

The Facts Are Catching Up To Globalisation

An article,’The Roughed Up American’, by Robert Samuelson in today’s WaPo related the true facts as to how citizens have fared, economically over the last decade or so.

His takeaway, "The Great Recession hurled incomes all the way back to the late 1980s and early 1990s." His pictorials indicate that median family income for 2013 ($46k) differed little from 1989 ($46k).

He states that the median income of the top 10% for 2013 was $229k, which is 22% above the 1989 figure. No one seems to be looking for a significant change for a long while to come.

Some call for tax reform; a fair tax, a flat tax, a VAT. Some want fringe reform of the existing tax code, close loopholes, etc. Still others want campaign finance reform or a heavier tax on wealthy.

Not going to happen, IMO. Globalisation is here to stay. The wealthy own 40% of everything, including the gov't, and the status quo suits them just fine.

And, believe it or not, some think immigration is the key to economic growth and recovery. Today, Marriott Hotels is advertising that their customers should tip the room service workers, just as you would your table waiter in a restaurant. Room service workers are paid around $10/hr.

Listen up real close if you want to know how to keep earning $10/hr, for ever? Bring in some more millions of illegals who will rush to take on such jobs.

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by Roy Ellis at September 15, 2014 8:47 PM
Comments
Comment #383305

Listen up real close if you want to know how to keep earning $10/hr, for ever? Bring in some more millions of illegals who will rush to take on such jobs.

Otherwise, we have the corpocracy we deserve.
Posted by Roy Ellis at September 15, 2014 8:47 PM

Right on my friend.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 16, 2014 4:50 PM
Comment #383363

Illegal alien is a misnomer that was created by Fox news to support their rabid xenophobia.

Any person that comes to this country from another country and wishes to reside here is called an immigrant. The immigration process will decide if they have used the correct procedures to enter our country. If they have not used the correct procedure then that decision will be made and their case will be adjudicated. If the adjudication process decides that they should be deported then that is what happens. At no time are they illegal, they are always immigrants. We are a country of almost all immigrants, that some of our citizens like to refer to some of those other immigrants as illegal is certainly sad and should be considered despicable by the rest of us immigrants.

Posted by: Speak4all at September 17, 2014 12:37 PM
Comment #383371

A commendable corpocratic response Speak. In today’s WaPo William Frey is quoted in an article saying “Young Hispanic children are the people who are going to be our future.”

Posted by: roy ellis at September 17, 2014 3:35 PM
Comment #383374
Illegal alien is a misnomer that was created by Fox news to support their rabid xenophobia.

That’s an interesting concept considering that the term was in use before Fox News was created in 1985.

Please explain to me how they went back in time and did that?

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 3:42 PM
Comment #383377

Well you get the drift I would hope? They are immigrants not illegal aliens. Fox is just the outlet that continues to use it over and over and over again. Not unlike our right wing friends here do all of the time. What do you think are they illegal or just immigrants?

Posted by: Speak4all at September 17, 2014 3:58 PM
Comment #383378
They are immigrants not illegal aliens.

They are immigrants that entered the country illegally. People use the term as a shorthand as to not have to say ‘immigrants who have entered the country illegally’ every time they talk or write on the subject.

Yes, it is a fine line because people, themselves, are not illegal, their actions are. We don’t say illegal with other illegal acts, but there is no other shorthand created so far that I am aware of that works well to describe people who have broken the law in regards to immigrating into the US.

If you can come up with a better phrase that is not as bulky, please do so.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 4:08 PM
Comment #383379

I’ll give you an example.

We have a word that we’ve created for killing someone illegally. It is called ‘murder’. When someone commits this act, we call them ‘murderers’.

We do NOT have a word that we’ve created for entering the country illegally. If we did, people would use it. Let’s make up a word, zegron. Zegron: The act of entering a country illegally against the country’s enacted laws. Now we could call those people ‘zegroners’. It would describe the illegality of the act their committed because we have a word for that act.

Until we have such a word, the inanity of trying to say that ‘they are just immigrants’ and preventing people from being able to describe the illegal action that they have committed is an attempt to water down the discussion.

Unfortunately, we don’t have a resolution that works to preserve the dignity of those who have committed those illegal actions AND describes those illegal actions committed that isn’t a bulky non-starter. The term ‘illegal alien’ or ‘illegal immigrant’ has been in use for over 70 years and as much as we may dislike it, it is part of the vernacular. If you want to change it, come up with a better term and get people using it instead of using the accepted use term as a fallacious means of attacking your opponent as a xenophobic bigot.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 4:15 PM
Comment #383380

Oh I don’t need to come up with a better term, there is no term to show the prejudice and bigotry that is being expressed and I certainly wouldn’t contribute to that anyway.

You see back in the 1950’s I cut my teeth on that prejudice and bigotry. Then immigrants were, where I lived, called DP’s (this I think meant displaced person to those who used it). Anyway whenever you heard DP it was never associated with anything good or decent or complimentary. It was always well he’s a stupid DP, or you don’t want to go to that store that’s where the DP’s shop, or dumb DP kids can’t speak English. It didn’t matter if they were legal or illegal, they were DP’s. Now since my grandmother did not speak English she could have been considered a DP. So as soon as I got the physical prowess necessary I started to beat the crap out of anyone I heard call someone a DP. Truth is I got the crap beat out of me sometimes too but they knew I was in the fight to let them know I didn’t like them calling anyone a DP.

Now you can call them anything you want to but if you call them a DP or illegal alien with arms length of me I will try to beat the crap out of you and even if I don’t you will know why I tried and if I do you will know not to ever call them that again in arms length of me.

Posted by: Speak4all at September 17, 2014 4:31 PM
Comment #383381

Ergo the left and right extremism running rampant in the demreps. Have we to yet determine that its best to ‘diddle in the middle’?

Posted by: roy ellis at September 17, 2014 4:42 PM
Comment #383383
Now you can call them anything you want to but if you call them a DP or illegal alien with arms length of me I will try to beat the crap out of you and even if I don’t you will know why I tried and if I do you will know not to ever call them that again in arms length of me.

Well, that says a lot about you that you don’t care about the intent or meaning behind someone’s words, you think it is ok to initiate physical violence against someone for using a term that YOU find offensive whether it is meant to be or not.

Check.

I don’t need to come up with a better term

I can understand why now. You want to have that ability to espouse your hatred towards someone for using a word that you don’t like and don’t feel the need to give people who are not espousing hatred or bigotry the ability to communicate their views because that would limit the section of people you can hate and beat up.

Words are words and meanings are meanings. Beating people up who are not bigots and aren’t using the terms in a way that is related to bigotry in any way is just your way of life and you are not only ok with that, you are proud of it.

Looks like we still have a long way to go, huh?

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 5:36 PM
Comment #383384

BTW, I know that this doesn’t matter a bit to you and your hatred and bigotry, but the reason people use the phrase ‘illegal immigration’ is because it differentiates between the illegal act of immigrating illegally and those who have immigrated legally. In your example you state ” It didn’t matter if they were legal or illegal, they were DP’s”. To those using the ‘illegal immigration’ term, they ARE saying that it DOES matter if they were legal or illegal…

I would suggest talking to someone about that residual hatred you have in your soul, it can’t be healthy.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 5:39 PM
Comment #383386

You are the one with a long way to go. As I said in my previous comment the connotation of DP was never, ever flattering to say the least and was meant to be offensive. And yes I did initiate a violent response to the use. Look I have told you this before bonehead nuclear physicist/computer expert/soon to be the worst lawyer in the country. You don’t know me, you don’t know who I am. You read comments I make on a blog and try to pull off your holier than thou attitude. Words and meanings are something that you have a lot to learn about but since you live in a world over 200 years ago I don’t expect you will be able to join us here. Remember what I told you about you walking around with a chip on your shoulder, it makes you less than what you could be. I know your the kind of guy who likes to think he’s the smartest man in the room/blog/chat. And if we don’t think so we can just ask you and you will let us know that you are.

Posted by: Speak4all at September 17, 2014 5:45 PM
Comment #383389

Except that I would never threaten, or actually initiate, violence against someone unless I was sure of their intent.

You not only said that you would beat up anyone who used the phrase ‘displaced person’, but also the phrase ‘illegal immigrant’, even though I have shown you that there *IS* an alternate non-bigot use of the word.

BTW, hilarious attempt to admonish me for ‘judging’ you when you in the same rant do the same to me. Ah, hypocrisy abounds in your world, doesn’t it?

As for thinking I am the smartest? Not at all. Only when compared to some.

BTW, a GREAT example just happened…

Apparently Vice President Joe Biden used the term ‘Shylocks’. His friend, the leader of the Anti Defamation League gave him a pass because “Clearly there was no ill-intent here”. It sounds like you would have just belted him, hmmm?

Intent matters. I don’t think Uncle Joe should be beaten up for using the word when it was obviously not intended as a slight. Words are just a way to convey our thoughts and intent, if you ignore the intent and context of the words being used, you do them not only a great disservice, but you end up alienating and hating people who you shouldn’t.

Another example, when I was in the Navy a friend of mine and I had been making fun of the use of the work ‘nigger’ by black people as a non-pejorative. He was black, I am part black (but not as visible as the other parts). I said the phrase ‘what’s up my nigger’ to him in an area where we were overheard by a Chief. The Chief yanked me a side and started yelling at me for using the word. To him, context didn’t matter, the fact that the person the word was directed to didn’t matter. All that mattered was that I looked white and he looked black and I used that word. Had I been visibly black, it would have been overlooked. That kind of world, where people who are ignorant of intent and want to use force against others just because a word that THEY don’t like was used, isn’t one I enjoy living in.

I’m not living in the world 200 year ago, I’m living in the one 20 years in the future. Many of the views and politics I have supported all of my life are finally coming into the mainstream. Gay rights, same-sex marriage, drug legalization, real pro-choice views, anti-war, anti-violence, etc. You do yourself a disservice in assuming that my views are ‘200 years in the past’ when you see all around you them coming into the mainstream, don’t you think?

The only one on here that is displaying emotive rhetoric and anger and hatred and violence, Speak4all, is you.

There is a greater conversation to be had about holding on to past prejudices, even if you think they are positive ones… But since it is obvious you don’t want to, or aren’t ready to, have that conversation, we’ll leave it be.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 17, 2014 6:20 PM
Comment #383487

Look I will type this slowly this time so you can understand. You do not know my world, you read words that I type as comments on a blog. Your estimation of being able to discern everyone’s whole existence by words that are typed on a blog is only exceeded by your inability to understand that you have no special sense that is infallible in that regard.

Here’s an example of how you handle my comments. If I type the sky is blue it’s great. You come back with, well if you think blue is the best then what about red and green. And how about yellow and orange. If blue is what you like so much why don’t you just have everything in your life be blue.

Yes let’s just leave it be before you turn what I type into another fantasy of your wild imagination.

Posted by: Speak4all at September 18, 2014 9:39 AM
Comment #383498

Again with the hypocrisy. “Don’t pretend to know what I think just because I told you what I think, but here’s how you think…”

It’s good to know you haven’t changed at all, Speak. The minute someone gets close to a nerve or provides an argument you aren’t prepared for you pull this. You are the one that said that if anyone said the words ‘illegal immigrant’ in your presence you would enact physical violence upon them, regardless of what they mean by it. I didn’t put those words on here for you.

Either you meant it and you would or you didn’t mean it and you just said something inflammatory just to try and get a rise out of someone, either way that’s pretty sad.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 18, 2014 1:35 PM
Comment #383504

And again you twist what I type to suit your needs. I said if anyone called someone a “DP or illegal alien”. Go back and read it. Gosh but you are a tedious type. It seems some times that your comprehension skills favor your need to refute someone when they should really focus on comprehension. Look you want to use some term to decide if an immigrant meets your standards or doesn’t. I don’t I want to consider them an immigrant and then let the immigration process and the courts decide. That you need to pigeon hole people is something you just can’t stop. Let me tell you something that my republican friend and co-worker has helped me to understand. When dealing with a particularly difficult and incessantly tedious person we like to say “we don’t want you to go away mad, we just want you to go away”.

Posted by: Speak4all at September 18, 2014 2:42 PM
Comment #383507

Oh, I’m sorry Speak, yes you are right, the term ‘illegal alien’ is SOO much different that ‘illegal immigrant’, despite it’s usage in the common vernacular for over 70 years as meaning the same thing. I stand corrected, you would only physically assault anyone using your disapproved language of DP or illegal alien. You are a model of caring and love…

And it’s not MY standards, I have been calling for an immediate restructuring of the immigration policies in the US for decades, as have most libertarians. They are terrible. It is the US’s standards based on current law, whether I agree with them or not. It is a way that people can communicate the differences between someone who entered the country illegally as opposed to legal immigration. I know you don’t want there to be a difference because you want to tar anyone who is concerned about people illegally immigrating as being ‘against foreigners’ and ‘xenophobic’, without having to recognize that they may actually not be. It’s easier for you to enact your hatred that way.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 18, 2014 2:54 PM
Comment #383510

My hatred, indeed, you have a childish approach to your smarmy inference that I espouse hatred. You seem to think I seek your approval or recognition in my comments I do not, I comment for my benefit and my benefit only. Furthermore I am not a Libertarian and don’t really care what they want. I do think that this country is great in that it allows for everyone to participate if they so desire so I can’t write that you shouldn’t be able to do that. I do however take exception to your desire to pigeon hole everyone and anyone, I don’t think that is very Libertarian of you but then again I told you I am not one and don’t really care to become one. I am content to let the immigration process and if necessary a court of law decide the legality of residence in this country. I know you would like to change that and that is your prerogative, I encourage you to do so.

Now someone please send help!!! I am once again caught in the Rhinehold loop to nowhere!!!

Posted by: Speak4all at September 18, 2014 5:02 PM
Comment #383561

illegal Immigration

Posted by: D.a.n at September 20, 2014 12:36 AM
Comment #383562
speaks4all wrote: So as soon as I got the physical prowess necessary I started to beat the crap out of anyone I heard call someone a DP. Truth is I got the crap beat out of me sometimes too but they knew I was in the fight to let them know I didn’t like them calling anyone a DP. HhHHMMMmmmmmmmm… .

Really?

Posted by: D.a.n at September 20, 2014 12:46 AM
Comment #383563

Careful Rhinehold.

Speak4all might kick your ass!

Posted by: D.a.n at September 20, 2014 1:07 AM
Comment #383630
My hatred, indeed, you have a childish approach to your smarmy inference that I espouse hatred.

You are rights, your stated desire to physically harm people is coming from a place of love and respect, I should have seen that before…

As for it being childish, the only childishness I see here is the need to physically harm people over words.

You seem to think I seek your approval or recognition in my comments I do not, I comment for my benefit and my benefit only.

Yes, as you have stated many times before. Thankfully, I am not under any false belief that you are doing anything but blathering on with little care about what others think about what you say.

However, there are many others readers who I am trying to reach… And as you say, I am not seeking YOUR approval or recognition either. I know quite well that you think you are right and have nothing left to learn, but those of us here who aren’t as full of themselves as you realize that we always have something to learn about ourselves from others.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 22, 2014 11:04 AM
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