Third Party & Independents Archives

Today We Need A 3rd Party w/a/dif/pol/att

I realize its just more tautology but as folks become poorer and more disgruntled with time maybe some will start to believe in the merits of a new 3rd party.

For today I would offer the following reasons for a new 3rd party.:

Elected officials dishonoring their sworn oath of office; enforcement of immigration law and Article Five Convention

Campaign financing:

One person, one vote vs Citizens United and money equates to free speech.

AFL-CIO, SEIU and latino groups to go after several repub legislators.

Corpocracy gov't by deception:

ACA - forcing gov't mandate on the folks, putting all the risk on the taxpayer in that those who can will pay corporcratic ins co's at a higher rate. Those who can't pay will be subsidized by the taxpayer.

NAU - attempt at regionalization in secrecy. Implemented piecemeal following strong objection by the folks

NAFTA and the AFTA's - sold as a job creation project

Passing incomplete, unread and/or unwritten bills into law: ACA - much of it still to be written, Dodd-Frank - 20% implemented and has already been degutted by the Corpocracy.

Job creation:

ACA - much of the software development is being done using foreign workers:

""Obamacare is open to people who have "non-immigrant Status (includes worker visas, student visas, and citizens of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau)," according to a sentence buried on page 20 of the 21-page rule for Obamacare insurance and subsidies.""

Read more:


Similar to the ACA - make corporates well while putting the risk on the taxpayer - immigration amnesty intended to provide cheap labor for the Corpocracy while driving down wages and job opportunities for the working folks.

Lack of oversight/corruption:

$60B in medicare fraud yearly:

Indian drug company pushing placebo pills for Lipitor and similar, some pills containing glass particles.

Virginia DMV couple helped some 300 illegal residents get ID's thru the DMV for $2-3K a pop.

Corporcratic corruption:

JP Morgan Chase Bank et al - up to 35% of fine for financial crimes is tax deductible for corporations. Try writing off your traffic tickets and get back here. . . You are just human but banks are superhuman.


Puerto Rico is down $70B
Calif is down $23B
Detroit is down . . . and out

The system is broken. Gov't is too big, too corrupt. Way to much money sloshing around. Globalisation is grinding us into the ground. We need a 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att to reform/recover.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by Roy Ellis at November 7, 2013 10:26 PM
Comment #373912

The WP reports that the IRS issued $4B in fraudulent tax refunds last year to folks using stolen identities. Refunds went to residents in Bulgaria, Lithuania and Ireland. 655 refunds went to a single address in Lithuania and 343 refunds went to a single address in Shanghai. Miami received the most fraudulent returns in the US.

An ex-lobbyist was chosen to head the FCC.

How about we keep a running thread on Copocratic events over time? Would WB’s server handle the load?

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 8, 2013 5:58 PM
Comment #373921

In the news that an unknown number of Navy personnel serving in Asia have been taking money, sex, trips and the like provided by Corpocratist ‘Fat Leonard’, CEO of a maritime service company. Investigation continues.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 8, 2013 8:53 PM
Comment #373926

4 Billion is not chump change, though it is a very small percentage of total revenues. Every government has its fraudulent takers, and they are divining new ways to defraud government with each generation. It has always been so, dating back to ancient Rome, Babylonia, and Persia. What business with longevity has not been stolen from or robbed? Purportedly the most protected enterprise on Earth is the American intelligence community, and that has proven to be vulnerable as of this last year. It is human nature that some small percentage will always game whatever system is erected to insure fairness and equity. Organizations do their best, and crooks do their best. It has always been thus, and likely will always be as long as greed and creative motivation remain part and parcel of the human psyche.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 9, 2013 12:17 AM
Comment #373942

Posted by: lens pen at November 10, 2013 8:15 AM
Comment #373946

Lemme try again, David. SAC Capital Investments agreed to a $1.2B settlement for insider trading over the ‘past decade’. That’s not two weeks, or two months, or two years, etc. That’s complete disregard for the taxpayer by the SEC, FBI types. That’s walking around blind, David.

It seems only the Spanish can get federal giveaway money for fast trains or the Dutch for turning corn cobs into ethanol (sometime in the next 30 years), etc. That’s globalisation with a left jab followed by a right hook to the working man,l David.

When we do get a farm bill it will be largely writ by ADM, etc.

Today’s WaPo relates a good example. Article says ballot initiatives are being driven by corporations and the wealthy. Same spent more than $1B over the last 18 months on initiatives in 11 states.

Says ballot inits were originally set up to “break the hold that corporations had on state legislatures but is increasingly being used in reverse - -“. This year corporations spent more than $27M in Wash state to prevent required labeling on food that would include GMO’s. Just $600 spent to fight the measure came from inside the state. Now, there’s some real globalisation for you. In Md. the gaming industry spent some $90M in two months to expand the industry in Md. $44.1M coming from W. Va. gaming. Last year Costco spent more than $22M to end Wash States law to restrict liquor sales to stores more than 10k sq ft.

One Wash state activist was able to get 13 inits on the ballot, queing them up for the big hitters. Today, in Wash state the average cost to get an init on the ballot cost $1.4M. Direct democracy run amuk, IMO.

Says that S. Dakota began allowing referendums back in 1898 as a way to break the stranglehold railroad tycoons had on the legislature. Today, some 24 states allow some form of direct democracy.

Corporations can’t help themselves, David. They will go after the last dollar standing, no matter where. I believe a 3rd party would be the most likely to provide a method of reform to save us from Corporatism.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 10, 2013 2:08 PM
Comment #373950

Already mentioned AVC but some expansion is useful:

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 10, 2013 9:27 PM
Comment #373952

I hope readers will a note to in trying to shed some light on congress’ latest attempt to shut the door on Article V Convention.

This evening the O’reilly factor will review ‘corruption’ in the US. Should be interesting.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 11, 2013 12:24 PM
Comment #373965

Roy, I presented the following to C&J in another article. But, it adequately, in my mind, addresses your response, and partially explains why a third party is not necessarily the answer.

“Brings to mind one of the biggest sources of waste in government, corporate special interests allocations, and the whole “money is speech” debacle invented purely as an insurance policy by corporate interests, who went even further to get themselves declared as single entity human being citizens with nearly all the incumbent rights of a citizen plus more.

What Republican president Eisenhower warned of the industrial military complex is now true of entire corporate sectors. Capitalism married to one person, one vote representative democracy CAN work and work well. We have seen it work during and after WWII. But, it can only work when they are distinctly different enterprises. Just as government interference with the daily operations of corporations will do far more harm than good, the reverse is also just as true. Capitalism, which is regulated to protect the public, but free in all other respects to pursue profits through customer satisfaction and efficiency, can be an enormous asset to a society and its future. Our government, if conforming to democracy as its process for representation, and if held by the media to standards of transparency and accountability for its actions, can do as much for the present and future of a society as capital interests and small business.

They are like our two legs, which work best when each operates independently but, in coordination with the other. When business interests shape government policy, or government intrudes into the daily decisions of individuals and business for ideological reasons, you get two legs failing to coordinate, resulting in their tripping each other up. The whole of society then suffers the fall and injuries resulting, in one way or another, now or later.

Of course, it would be enormously helpful if our educational system taught all future voters this indispensable understanding to good citizenship and responsible politics. “

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 12, 2013 8:27 AM
Comment #373966

BTW, Roy, I am not opposed to a third party. A third party would help drive the other two toward the center for consensus, and drive out extreme pendulum swings in public policy which do far more harm than good, depriving Americans of a rational and predictable future of progress, prosperity, peace, and individual freedom.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 12, 2013 8:30 AM
Comment #374007

David, your position is laudable but, IMO you are painting with too broad of a brush. While defining the problem in its broadest terms your solutions seem improbable, perhaps bearing fruit sometime in the 23rd century.

We are too close to the edge of the cliff for that kind of rationale.

Lemme try harder. Capitalism, representative democracy and the media are not the problem. The overall arching problem is the ‘money influence in gov’t and politics’. The driving force behind the money influence is CORPOCRACY. Corpocracy uses money to interfere with capitalism, rep democracy and media. This interference can have a corrupting influence.

The longer corpocracy is allowed to continue, the more pervasive, and will have to be addressed at some point in the near future. For example: you suggested that education might be the key to turn the nation away from the money influence. I would suggest that the Corpocracy would never allow such an educational program to get off the ground. As you stated, the “ “money is speech” debacle invented purely as an insurance policy by corporate interests, who went even further to get themselves declared as single entity human being citizens with nearly all the incumbent rights of a citizen plus more.”

We prefer gov’t to be local, absent outside influence but, Corpocracy thrives on overwhelming the local governing process through the money influence. Virginia just went through a gubernatorial election where most of the campaign/ad money came from corporations and wealthy interests outside the state. Money influence now comes from foreign corporations to influence local gov’ts. Example: China needs coal and their corporations/subs will send dollars to support candidates within a state who will take a positive position on the coal industry. Tends to negate the local citizen(s) and definitely corrupts the system of gov’t intended by the Founder’s.

Recall that in 1860 a few railroad barons were able to get corporate personhood law put in place by the SC without there ever being a case in law about ‘corporate personhood’.

In the beginning there were laws in place banning corporate donations. In 1976 the SC further ruled that money equates to free speech. Doesn’t seem to work for the Hare Krishner’s, below url.

Readers can check out and for the latest on the movement to abolish corporate personhood law.

The Supreme Court teaming up with Corpocracy is way more than gaining insurance for corporations. Citizens United and similar laws have destroyed many of the principles of a representative democracy. Principles like ‘one person, one vote’, ‘all politics is local’, integrity and trust in gov’t and so on - - - IMO, we will soon reach a point where citizens feel forced to do something toward reform. The Corpocracy is fast trying to nail the door closed forever on Article V Convention (url’s above in this thread relate) and it is with great effort that a 3rd party can get off the ground. I’m sure you are well aware of how difficult it is to organize and mainstream an advocacy group.

I am a firm believer in a 3rd party coming to save us from Corpocracty/corporate personhood. BUT, a new 3rd party ain’t going to be worth a whit, just another party, unless it can be founded in some ironclad rules that prevent party cooption by the money influence. With the Internet, skype and similar it is possible to enforce party rules, take polls, internal voting, etc.

We’d best get started now, David.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 12, 2013 8:46 PM
Comment #374020

How to get fired from Fox News in 5 minutes…

There isn’t anything in this rant that I disagree with…

What if…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 13, 2013 11:44 AM
Comment #374034

Roy said: “Capitalism, representative democracy and the media are not the problem. The overall arching problem is the ‘money influence in gov’t and politics’”

The money influence in gov’t and politics comes directly from our capitalism, representative democracy and media which are allowing the money influence to exist. Capitalism is buying lobbyists who twist the arms of our representatives while the media fails to inform the public adequately of who’s arms are being twisted and by whom.

The two parties brought about Citizen’s United through their choice of SC judges. Pres. Clinton signed the bill that got rid of the Glass Steagall Act, making Sarbanes Oxley and Dodd Frank laws necessary, but insufficient, voted for by Republicans and some Democrats.

Capitalists are permitted by our politicians to influence them in return for campaign contributions insuring reelection. Congress could end this corruption, but, chooses not to. The American voters could end this corruption, if only they were aware of the corruption and the remedy.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 13, 2013 4:54 PM
Comment #374044

Rhinehold, Napolitano really went on a rant which we can assume wasn’t taken lightly by FOX.

Yes, I certainly empathize with his rant, telling it like it is, IMO.

David, me thinks you can’t see the forest for the trees. Let’s try an analogy. A guy goes around starting forest fires and the folks expend their effort on putting out the fires. That is, Corpocracy is starting the fires and the folks are attacking capitalism, media, politicians and the like.

I’m concluding you will never come around to recognizing Corpocracy as the source of our problems. I do believe you recognize that if VOID began to become mainstream advocacy it would be attacked as a terrorist organization, a rapists webt site and so on - - -.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 13, 2013 8:19 PM
Comment #374204

Of recent WaPo has been running articles about a retired Army officer who, with a couple of Army buddies, have been whipsawing the gov’t contracting process for the big bucks. The officer, a prime player, was made Chief of a small company as he was a minority, latino, and was certified by the VA as 30% disabled due to exposure to agent orange. Thus, he was able to secure a loan from the SBA and soon the company became the biggest of the small.

Complex and involved so you might want to read about it here:

Just a pea sized example of globalisation holding sway.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 14, 2013 9:53 PM
Comment #374267

Roy, VOID is not a mainstream organization and it has already been attacked falaciously and derogatorialy. But, you know where that comes from? No, not corpocracy. It comes from the first amendment free speech protections, which I support wholeheartedly as defined in law.

Corpocracy is something we agree on. You just use different words. I spell it out, instead of using the relatively unfamiliar term, “corpocracy” which means a political and economic system dominated by corporations. Isn’t that what I said above?

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 15, 2013 6:08 PM
Comment #374283

Seems unreal that so many people expected the ACA website to be brought online as a big success. Since the bill was signed in 2010 we’ve known that certain parts would not even be addressed until 2014.
The ACA is to be implemented over several years, thru 2020. .

Sure, the admin used a goodly amount of deception to sell the ACA to the people. Few would be willing to rush to change unless they believed something was in it for them. Much the same as selling the NAU and these NAFTA type trade packs to the folks.

Better understood if one views all these type programs as part of the push to globalise. I don’t know a thing about EU zone HC but I would expect they are working on an HC policy that looks a whole lot like the ACA. Harmonizing, if you will.

Some of the input into this harmonization effort is being driven by demographics. People are living longer and using HC more extensively.

In a globalised society their will be super-mega wealthy folks and dirt poor folks. Requirement for workers will continue to fall due to efficiency, mass production, innovation and applied technology. Near 80% of steel is from recycling and about 38% of iron. TVA is shutting down eight coal powered steam plants, etc. Jobs on the move, etc.

So the new society will contain the super rich and the super poor. Little can be done for the low end except entitlements, subsidies. Doesn’t make sense to train folks for jobs that aren’t available. To the globalists it does make sense to spread the less wealthy across the nations that can best support them. So, we can expect an endless stream of folks ‘yearning to breathe free’ to find their way on to the rolls of ACA over the next decade.

In brief, ACA is on track per globalism. Is it possible that the ACA is being tee’d up for Hillary in 2015, on a white horse and all that - - -?

I’m more concerned about what the Corpocracy is working on while the folks are bugged out on HC issues.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 15, 2013 9:09 PM
Comment #374284

I do agree with your definition, David. But I would suggest you get in front of a mirror and practice lip movements and guttural sounds until you can enunciate the word ‘Corpocracy’

Wheee!, Friday night on WB, etc!!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 15, 2013 9:19 PM
Comment #374306

Roy, I only allow myself to look in the mirror on Halloween, after donning my mask. Don’t want to scare myself with the reality of the passage of too many decades.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 17, 2013 4:46 PM
Comment #374341

Divided we stand. This week WaPo is focusing on ‘the new wealth’ that has been created thru cozy relations with the DC federal gov’t.

Seems that after 9/11 federal gov’t agencies around DC have been flush with cash and contractors have worked to provide needed services.

Done mostly thru lobbying and making the right contacts, small corporations have grown large and the large are now mega-large.

I would think most folks don’t have a problem with corporations and gov’t working together in support of gov’t goals/missions. Where most find fault is with corporations that funnel money to the campaign funds of gov’t officials or those looking to become elected officials. From the article, “companies spent about $3.5B annually on lobbying at the end of the last decade, a nearly 90% increase from 1999 – .”

The article relates that research shows those who spend on influence, the lower their effective tax rates and the higher their stock returns. An index to track some 50 such companies last year showed the index up by 30 over the rest of the market.

What we have is Corpocracy, ruling by deception, using the taxpayers as grapes to be squeezed for the $wine. Trade pacts that were to provide jobs and put the economy into overdrive. Amnesty for immigrants to drive innovation, create jobs. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor and so on - - -

Surely, we all recognize that the over-riding intent is to flesh out globalisation to put all nations and the workers of the world on a level playing field. Nothing about addressing inequality, population growth, the fact that fewer mfctring jobs are needed, etc.

We need a 3rd party today, more than yesterday. But, not just any 3rd party, etc. - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 18, 2013 9:23 PM
Comment #374346

The answer is the American people taking back the power and control of elections for their own self-interest. It is called democracy. A relatively foreign concept to Americans today, who subscribe to paid advertising for their political thoughts and decisions.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 19, 2013 12:52 PM
Comment #374421

No less impossible than a ‘flying elephant’, David. Corpocracy would never allow such reform. We shall go into perpetuity being dragged along by the short hairs, IMO. UNLESS, we can gin up a 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att, rules to shunt the money influence.

Getting back to reasons why we need a 3rd; an Atlanta lady reports a 3 day stay in the hospital where she was billed $20k. One pill she was given was billed at something like $16 and the pill can be purchased for $.03. The hospital was asked to provide some comparative pricing and refused. Just another example of the taxpayer/citizen used as ‘grapes’ to provide the juice for corpocracy. HC, like many entitlement programs is broken. The IRS is so shot thru with perks/loopholes. Big corps have stacked the deck against the little corps and so on - - - -
Banks are working under the ethos of ‘fair is what you can get away with’, etc. Folks will go to work and deal with kids and then vote the party line w/o even knowing the name of the person(s) they are voting for. We’re about done, IMO.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 20, 2013 8:47 PM
Comment #374449

Roy, a third party has NO possibility of a majority vote in either house of Congress against the Republican/Democrat dependency upon the corpocracy. A majority of voters however, can move the R/D’s toward a majority vote. Sorry, but, your argument for a third party is vaporous absent any Third Party which can outvote Republicans and Democrats combined.

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 21, 2013 12:04 PM
Comment #375344 coach outlet coach outlet coach outlet louis vuitton outlet louis vuitton purses true religion outlet true religion outlet burberry outlet burberry outlet tory burch outlet michael kors outlet oakley sunglasses louboutin outlet christian louboutin outlet scarpe hogan ralph lauren longchamp beats by dre hogan mont blanc louis vuitton borse canada goose canada goose moncler moncler Canada Goose Canada Goose Canada Goose Outlet Canada Goose Outlet moncler moncler outlet online air max pas cher Christian Louboutin outlet Ugg outlet

Posted by: coach outlet at December 27, 2013 8:15 PM
Post a comment