Third Party & Independents Archives

Say, I Heard We Put A Man On The Moon!

Amazing country we live in these days. Conjure up all the problematic tautology you can muster and then realize that the big tv topic of the day is Mark Rubio taking a drink of water while presenting. After you recover from that take in a deep breath and then realize that the last two days of tv, 24/7 has been filled with a cruise ship being towed to port after losing much of its power.

One has to ask, what are people thinking? The country has been in decline since the days of Regan and the era of greed is good. I believe most everyone realizes that. Yet, the most frontest of the WaPo front page today is that "the consequences of this breakdown are only now dawning on many economists and have not gained widespread attention among policymakers in Washington. Many lawmakers have yet to even acknowledge the problem".

And, here I thought we had news at lightning speed. But, wait, there's more.

"Economists are not clear how the economy got to the point where growth drivs far less job creation and broadly shared prosperity than it used to." Well, it's obvious this guy hasn't been reading my blogposts from about 07.

But, then, the writer gets around to sort of answering his own question. "Some theorize that a major factor was globalization which enabled companies to lay off highly paid workers in the US during recessions and replace them with lower-paid ones overseas during recoveries."

I could inform the writer that he is on the right track and that if he keeps sniffing around he will find the overlying cause for the majority of our problems of significance, Corpocracy. I would suggest he make himself aware of the revolving door which represents Corpocracy at its highest level. Like the recent appointment to Securities and Exchange chief and the nomination of Jack Lew to replace the Secretary of the Treasury. Some may recall that Romney was chastised for receiving large compensations while maintaining an offshore tax haven. Seems Mr. Lew has similar bonafides. Sen Max Baucus, an outspoken foe of tax havens is helping Lew defend himself in the confirmation hearings. Corpocratic politics at its best.

For those of you who like your horsemeat mixed in with your beef burger you can take heart that the US and EU are contemplating a 'new' trade agreement. Idea is to firm up 'globalism' where weakness can be found. The main bang is to try an align regulatory agencies of both trading zones. Harmonization of areas like cross border data flow, certification of parts/products, planes and automobiles, will be pursued.

Sounds as if your horsey beef burger will arrive at your doorstep as quickly as an illegal worker can be delivered to you farmplace, IMO.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by Roy Ellis at February 14, 2013 8:25 PM
Comments
Comment #361725

Roy, Good post. You seem to be expecting more from our corporate media than stories about Rubio drinking water. Investigative journalism about globalism and corporate malfeasance doesn’t sell ads, well unless they bleed. The real question is how did the WAPO manage to out anything of relevance on the front page.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 15, 2013 9:10 AM
Comment #361743

Good post, Roy. It’s about time that the talking heads start talking about the reality of our economy. Jobless recoveries aren’t new. It’s more than a two decade old problem. The loss of our manufacturing base is a three decade old problem. Globalization and the financialization of our economy is not a new issue. It has been happening for decades.

All the political furor over deficits, debt, high unemployment, etc., are directed at symptoms not the cause.

Meanwhile, the major beneficiaries of this new economy, i.e., Wall Street, major multi-national corporations and their investors, are doing swell. In fact, they were even saved from their own gross negligence, fraud and bankruptcy by our government and federal reserve. The whole scenario stands the concepts of justice, fairness and equity on its head. The perpetrator is rewarded and the victim punished.

What is particularly galling is the minions of the financial elite blaming the unemployed for their plight and demanding an end to their unemployment support.

I don’t know what the best policy response is but I sure would like a vigorous debate on the real issues. I, for one, am tired of the debate about what we are going to have to give up, e.g., health care, SS income, etc. Its an admission of defeat to forces we seem unable to confront.


Posted by: Rich at February 15, 2013 6:15 PM
Comment #361749

j2t2 and Rich, right on, and Rich, so very well said in just a few words.

SOME of the truth came out today on WaPo’s page 12. “The stagnation follows a historic run in which $5.5T has flowed into the global economy from central banks in the US, Japan, Britain and the euro zone.”

Writer says the money is being stashed in lower-return investments by pension funds, stock-piled on corporate balance sheets or held by sovereign wealth funds and national treasuries. Alludes that what the money isn’t doing is flowing into infrastructure, business investment or other productive activity. A lot of corporate money is going to restructure existing debt and stockpile cash while interest rates are low.

In the editorial section R. Shapiro asks ‘what has happened to the strong job creation that was the economic norm in the US from the 1950’s to the 1990’s?

He relates that over the 44 months of the 82-89 and 91-2000 expansion employment grew at 3.7 and 2.3%. If adjusted to the 5.5% GDP growth of the Reagan years Bush era job creation would be higher, 1.3% as opposed to 0.7%. Higher too, for the Obama era, 2.8 versus 1.25%.

Still, these higher rates are a fraction of the job growth in the 80’s. Shapiro deduces that even if growth accelerates in the coming Obama term job creation will be substandard - - - “”unless Congress and the president adopt policies designed to address this new reality.”“

Further, he relates that the problem lies with globalism and technology. With global competition corporations have been unable to raise their price to hold up their bottom line. So they have reverted to operating with fewer people and cutting wages. I don’t agree with Shapiro here as I don’t believe the cost of doing business in China has increased corp’s cost of doing business, Quite the opposite, IMO.

Shapiro suggests congress cut the cost of doing business for corp’s by negating the payroll tax and making up the SS trust fund loss by adding a modest carbon or VAT tax. A true corpocratic approach fer shure. Put the cost/risk on the taxpayer or we won’t play, etc.

Shapiro sums it up with “over the past decade and two expansion our job creation rate has fallen sharply compared with previous decades.”

I’m seeing more frequent articles reflecting that jobs/wages have declined over the past couple of decades. A few , such as Shapiro’s article, are talking of the ‘new normal in job creation’.

The FED has said low interest rates will begin to turn in a couple more years. So, corp’s are beginning a round of buying up their competition while money is cheap.

Greatest xfer of wealth in history, $16T federal debt, banks and corporations are flush, mortgage industry being bailed out at $40B/month for ‘as long as it takes’, etc. And yet, nothing, not one thing can I point to as a real effort to improve the lot of the working man. Strongest words I’ve heard to date is Obama’s proposal to provide free kindergarden-preschool for kids.

Also, seeing more articles relating that an ‘economic recovery’ is several years down the road. Well, yes, as we do have this debt, sequestration and austerity measures on the immediate horizon and seemingly no interest from the Corpocracy to change gears.

If people really want to get back to work they could come together and agree to work for say, $7/hr give or take a buck, and that would get the attention of the Corpocracy. Noted last evening that cruise ship employees work 12-14/hr days for something like 17 cents an hour and that after a career of that they can retire well off in their home country. So, come Americans, get with it. Call your congressperson and tell him you are willing to work for way less wages. In so doing you/we/me can truly become part of the global economy and live happily in a corpocratic society.

Otherwise - - -3rd party and all that…

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 15, 2013 8:45 PM
Comment #361755


I Tried to Open a Lemonade Stand

Politicians say, “We support entrepreneurs,” but the bureaucrats make it hard. The Feds alone add 80,000 pages of new rules every year. Local governments add more. There are so many incomprehensible rules that even the bureaucrats can’t tell you what’s legal. In the name of public safety, politicians strangle opportunity.
Posted by: Weary Willie at February 16, 2013 2:56 AM
Comment #361761

Thank you Willie for getting to the heart of the matter.

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/02/15/news/hancock/brooksville-may-join-local-food-turf-war-between-towns-state-government/

This is a real good example at destroying innovation and jobs.

This was the comment I left.


Food Sovereignty is one of the most important issues today. It can only be accomplished with the establishment of the small multi-functional farmer around the towns and by people growing as much as their own food as possible. I strongly recommend folks learn what is in the foods they by at the stores and where they come from. Research what is happening to the agriculture systems and people of the countries that are being coerced into growing patented seeds. This practice destroys generations of farming knowledge and techniques in plant breeding and animal husbandry. The farmers are not permitted to save seed to plant the following season or to cross it with another variety. Even now there is a case before the US Supreme Court, Bowman vs Monsanto, that will determine how long a patent lasts on a seed. Whether or not it pertains to the “fruit” from the planted seed or even several generations past if it happened to get mixed up in some animal feed that sprouts and grows. Such as chicken scratch feed!!!! which can germinate.
If you buy from a local farm and especially from the grocery stores- WASH your produce and your hands…..KEEP you kitchen area CLEAN… especially when working with any meat product or poultry product - Wash those eggs before they go into the water to be boiled. NEVER assume the produce at the store is clean. Many people go thru that store, touching, sneezing, coughing and using the bathrooms. Those migrant workers out in the fields harvesting don’t have the best of conditions eithers and while the factories that process the vegies, etc may wash everything, is the water clean and free of contaminants, are the holding containers and drying racks sanitary, how about the wharehouse? Is the refrigeration working properly there and in the transportation vehicles…how long has everything sat in temps that were too warm or too cold?
We take our food for granted. We do not give any thought to where it comes from, who controls it and what could happen if it did not show up one day..a week..two weeks. It is our most vulnerable point and yet here folks are griping with the legislature about where they can buy milk or who has the right to sell it. Maybe these folks should rethink their our food security and wonder where their next meal would come from if the shelves were empty.

Posted by: Kathryn at February 16, 2013 3:52 PM
Comment #361764

Kathyrn, I seriously doubt that, as with most laws, food safety laws will be changed to any significant degree by the Corpocracy. Pretty sure it will take a 3rd party and all that - - -

But, we do need to encourage/develop the small farm/producer. To live the ‘good’ life we need imported products that can’t be grown/produced in our local environs and we need the products produced by the small local farmers as well. Examples for my area would be avocadoes and oranges from the warm zones and eggs and ham from my local producers.

I can relate the difference between a mass produced egg and an egg from a free range chicken. The free range egg will have a thicker, less watery, white and a much deeper yellow yolk and taste ten times better. Likewise for local ham where the hog is given some area to run around, rut, eat a root or two, etc. Ham will be way less fatty, more firm/lean, a deeper color and taste ten times better. Make some milk gravy with natural milk and enjoy the way better taste. And, I haven’t mentioned all the chems/drugs that one ingests with mass produced plants/animals. Some brands of massed tomatoes can be used for baseballs and taste about the same. So will your salad, etc
.
In many cases we really don’t know what is the food we eat, especially processed foods such as salads, sausages and the like. I’ve heard that McDonalds puts micro small plastic beads in their milkshakes for a ‘smoother’ ride down your throat.

Law should exist to accommodate society. Example in that owners who rent five or fewer dwellings are subject to far fewer laws dealing with rentals than is a large rental business. Why could we not treat small/family operated farms/farmettes accordingly?

In the 40’s-50’s I was raised on local non-regulated farm products. Never do I recall anyone in the community or county having a problem with these products. One develops a bond of trusts with the local producer which the producer will want to protect.

Just like certain laws pertain to the size of the business such as the number of rentals one owns, why can’t we have laws based on the size of the farm, volume of produce marketed or similar?

Certainly, this is far out, really strange stuff for the Corpocracy and will require a 3rd party to get any significant reform, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 16, 2013 5:15 PM
Comment #361774

Roy, Currently there are 8 new bills pertaining to Agriculture and Food that have been introduced so far this year.
of the 53 in Crime and Law Enforcement 37 are under Firearms and explosives
I make this comparison to point out how easy it is for Congress to get legislation past the people by focusing on agendas that will not solve the root cause of issues. Instead of posting official Executive Orders as he has in the past, the President is utilizing the Memorandums to get Congress and other Agencies to find ways to limit out rights.
Just curious , but how much do you keep tabs on food production? The horsemeat issue has been on going for awhile now and that scandal is only getting worse. FYI
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr213 This particular bill pertains to the use of sewage sludge on crops in the US. Yep right here, something I hear other countries being accused of, great way to contaminate a crop or a field.

Posted by: Kathryn at February 16, 2013 9:19 PM
Comment #361778

A lot of the problem is the misconception by almost everyone that we can’t do without the federal government. People have been conditioned to think that the federal government is the beginning and the end of everything pertaining to their lives.

If I were to say the Food and Drug Administration needs to be abolished almost everyone would get wide eyed and throw up their hands saying they would all be poisoned and die if that happened. Almost no one realizes that most of the inspections taking place are done locally.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 17, 2013 2:38 AM
Comment #361780

Willie, I believe we need a central governing body elected or maybe selected via lottery from the people being governed. Some method to prevent the entrenchment of professional politicians and lobbyists. Everyone should have to take a turn at some level of governing involvement-from local neighborhoods to state level or higher. Just as everyone should have to do a couple of years in the military at state or federal level. I also believe that our laws and regulations need to be completely revamped and simplified to allow for innovation, research, and job growth. Is this idealistic? Probably, but the current laws are so smothering that they no longer benefit but hinder humanity’s growth.

Right now we have a government that operates by crisis management. It does not govern - it tries to dictate and mandate to the population. The President has pre-empted too much power and the check and balances are no longer effective when they can be bypassed by EOs and a never ending “Emergency” status (may not be quite the right word) over several presidencies.

Since when can a president essentially legalize assassinations? Even on the suspicion of someone being a terrorist,,What about the burden of proof, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law in our own judicial system? How long is it going to be before the killing starts here on our own turf with DRONES? And Don’t believe that crap about them flying drones unarmed over the US. How are you going to know if it is armed or not - ask them? Then Congress wants to set up a Court to review any task(potential target) before it authorizes a legal murder. Oh I am aware of the -behind the scenes- ops, spy games, etc that goes on. But this is blatant targeting and if any other country was doing it to us, all hell would break loose. Can you imagine the uproar if there were any “collateral damage” victims on US territory? Good Lord it is OK to kill the children, moms and dads of other nations but OH NO don’t even think about it here! As if we were some sort of special human being - a different breed or specie or something not just a homosapien sapien ssp.

Gahh..there is so much that is going on in this government, even at state levels….yet so many people seem to be blind or and I hate to think that they actually are choosing to be blind to it.

Posted by: Kathryn at February 17, 2013 10:32 AM
Comment #361781

It’s a lot easier to be blind to it, Kathryn. I know. I sat in every meeting of my county government for a year and a half, three cycles of my government’s functions. I felt like a bee bumping on the glass as I watched them work. I saw to much during the three repetitions of the cycle. I realized how it worked. What it boiled down to was the people who wanted the money were the ones showing up at the meetings to show support for spending the money. When someone who opposed spending the money they were given limited time to make their statement and then promptly ignored. When bystanders did show up at a meeting to observe they could not understand the process because they did not understand the entire six month cycle that put the meeting into context. Eventually I became the bird hitting the windshield when I started to criticize the way they operated.

As far as the “state of emergency” or “Emergency” status as you say, this federal government operates under a state of emergency that has been in effect since the Korean war. The Korean war is still an active war. There was no treaty signed with North Korea. Technically we are still at war with North Korea. This war places the federal government in a state of emergency and that state of emergency gives the president extraordinary powers. Under the constitution the president can act as a dictator when we are at war. The constitution did not cover a perpetual state of war, though. Wars are suppose to be started and finished as soon as possible, yet our federal government has chosen to keep the Korean war active. Perhaps for this very reason. To give the president these extraordinary powers.

Sadly I do believe people choose to be blind to what goes on with our government. Whenever people talk about the government they refer to it as “they”. “They” won’t allow it. “They” won’t do it. “They” outlawed it. “They” forbid it. The people are dis-associated from their government. They never say “We” won’t allow it. “We” won’t do it. “We” outlawed it, or “We” forbid it. There is a disconnect between the people and the government.

Also, there are repercussions associated with an active involvement with government. People in government can easily destroy a business or home if someone “makes things difficult” for them. I asked a local reporter why she wouldn’t print what happens at public meetings and she said, “They would quit talking to me. I can’t do my job if they won’t talk to me!”. That only leads to pro-government news coverage and very little anti-government news coverage.

When a citizen requests information concerning a subject from the government the request must be understood by the body receiving the request. The request must be specifically worded to receive the specific information requested. Any deviation from the specific label will result in a reply such as, “We do not have that information available.” If you ask for a specific piece of information you may receive one sentence or you may receive one-hundred boxes of paper. Each carrying a charge of $1 per copy. I asked for a copy of a file from my local clerk. She quoted a cost of $1 per page and the file was about 40 pages. I asked why it cost so much when every copier in town cost $.15. I was told it was because I couldn’t take the file out of the clerk’s office. What a windfall the clerk’s office must receive from all those lawyers requesting information for their clients.

The cost of paying attention to our government is prohibitive. The consequences of paying attention can be prohibitive. The time spent on paying attention to our government is prohibitive. The lies and half-truths and miss-information and vague descriptions from officials make paying attention to our government prohibitive. We are at a point now where it is accepted that “We must pass it to find out what’s in it!” Do you have time to read the thousands of pages each bill is made up of, Kathryn? Keep in mind you must also read the thousands of pages of each law that is referred to in that bill. There are hundreds of external laws referred to in just one bill. And they also say “Ignorance is no excuse.” Those four words are very scary when you consider the power they grant to our government.

Roy Ellis believes a third party is the answer to our problems. I agree. I would call that party, “WE THE PEOPLE”. But just forming another party isn’t enough. Creating more rules to govern this party isn’t going to be enough. I believe the only thing that will effect change in this government and in the minds of the people would be the solutions expressed so eloquently by Ayn Rand in her book “Atlas Shrugged”. A general strike by the producers of this nation to show the takers where their free ride comes from. Nobody misses it until it’s gone. We should take it from them just once rather than having them always taking it from us until it’s gone.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 17, 2013 12:43 PM
Comment #361784

Kathryn and WW, thanks for the informative discussion. Kathryn, I pay very little attention to the goings on of gov’t for the very reasons WW mentioned. It would be a lifetime consuming effort for a ‘pilgrim’ in the middle of Va to try and keep up with gov’t. Impossible, to say the least and extremely expensive.

The voter/taxpayer shouldn’t be tasked with trying to keep up with gov’t. That is what our so-called reps are supposed to do. But, over the last 100 years or so Corpocracy has grown tentacles around gov’t and any significant laws today are passed/not passed at the behest of ‘special interest’ or the ‘money influence.’ IE, no matter what you think of the gun situation any laws passed in that regard will be filtered by the NRA and associated lobby.

WW, when I speak of ‘they’ I am referencing monopolies and needy gov’t officials, otherwise referred to as the Corpocracy.

40% of middle class wealth xferred to the 1% and gov’t finds it useful to bail out AIG, GM, etc while we’ve had 5 plus years of lip service re job creation. People don’t seem to get it. Even today with corp’s moving to merge/buyouts to squelch their competition, cut jobs and boost their ‘assets’ people are seemingly ok with globalization, wherever it may take us.

I’m somewhat elated that a few news articles are coming forth with the truth or partial truth. Again today, on WaPo’s frontest front page an article relates that “For the first time since the New Deal, a majority of Americans are headed toward a retirement in which they will be financially worse off than their parents, jeopardizing a long era of improved living standards for the nations elderly, according to a growing consensus of new research.: - - - And the full extent of the damage is only now being grasped by experts and policymakers.” The real pain is 10-30 years in front of us IMO. Or, said another way, however long it takes to get US wages down to a level where we can compete head on with the cheapest labor rates anywhere in the world.

WW, I don’t believe a 3rd party is the solution. The solution is to remove the money influence from gov’t and politics. That requires abolishing corporate personhood law and instituting REAL campaign finance reform. That can only, ONLY be done thru a 3rd party. But, not just any 3rd party. This party will need to be designed to abolish CP and implement CFR. Therefore, it will have to be founded in a few rules, as few as 4 or 5 to be exact. Rules that would make the party forever bullet proof to co-option by the money influence, allow members to serve as oversight for their elected officials, whereby, errant officials may be rejected FROM THE PARTY by majority vote. For example, a national vote could be held to vote yea/nay as to an errant congressperson representing Wyoming. It would all fit on a 3 x 5 card so can’t be too complex,

I suggest that after we’ve had 10-15 years of austerity the idea of a 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att will become more acceptable.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 17, 2013 3:25 PM
Comment #361792

Roy Ellis, do you remember a website that tried to start a constitutional convention at www.convusa.com? It’s down now but it charged a fee to become a delegate for your state. You paid by credit card and it had recurring charges that enabled you to continue being a delegate.

I was just wondering if this type of webpage would work towards the formation of the 3rd party you’re speaking of. I suppose it would be plagued with the same problems that brought down convusa but perhaps a token payment or perhaps no payment at all would work better towards it’s formation.

It’s food for thought, otherwise… :)


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2013 12:09 AM
Comment #361817

Willie, The only bills I research fully are the ones headed for presidential signature. Until then it can be futile to put that much work into the largest ones like the medical fiasco that was passed - and yep, I did read that entire beast before it was signed. I have the time to do this since I am retired on disability and only have myself and my companion pets to take care of at home.
Fortunately internet researching isn’t my only interest otherwise I would drive myself stir-crazy with all the crap going on. I do get to reflect on what I learn and use multiple independent sources to verify the data. I also try to get information on both sides to be able to make better choices and just to learn more about a topic.
Unfortunately I don’t always play well with others - too opinionated and get impatient with people who don’t think for themselves, or are always making excuses why they can not do things. There is always a way if one is willing to pay the price at times.

Roy, revamping the campaign financing is only a drop in the bucket. That whole idea needs to be removed. As soon as money is involved - favors get implied between parties. Just as money is exchanged for a good or service - money donated to someone running for office…the donor is expecting something in return. So no elected official is ever truly free to perform the duties of his office.
It is critical for all of us pilgrims to keep tabs on government - it our job as part of the check and balance system. Inept as it is at this time.

Thanks guys for one of the best conversations I.ve had on here in awhile. Kat

Posted by: Kathryn at February 18, 2013 1:23 PM
Comment #361822

Thanks, Kathryn

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 18, 2013 3:46 PM
Comment #361828

Kathryn, while retired I still have lots of honey do’s and similar. Even if not, there is no way I could spend my time sorting thru govie stuff. And, I can guarantee me that I would not understand (see thru to the loopholes) anything I read. I’m just not a critical thinker person.

I do the regular stuff, watch tv, read newspapers and hang out on WB. As to CFR I agree with your position. But, I am talking about REAL CFR implemented AFTER corporate personhood law has been abolished. Here is a recent article as to how that’s going:

http://shiftfrequency.com/it-takes-people-power-to-make-clear-that-corporations-are-not-people/

My position as to CFR, following abolishment of CP, would be to limit donations to something reasonable, say $2k per person. All state level donations would be made to an entity such as the state treasury office. This office would account for, bundle and transmit donated funds to another entity, say the states election board or similar for disbursement to political parties and/or candidates. Similar setup for donations for federal elections. IRS would receive, account, bundle and disburse to Federal Elections Commission or similar. FEC would disburse funds to political parties and/or candidates.

Now, if, for whatever reason that can’t be done then I would advocate for a system whereby the state and/or federal are responsible to use taxpayer donations and/or revenue to fund elections. A mix of public funded and privately donated money if possible. If that is not possible, for whatever reason, then adopt a publicly funded election system.

Implementation of REAL CFR would get us pretty close to the concept of one person, one vote, and take the money influence to the mat, IMO..

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Public_financing_of_campaigns

Sure, this is not the whole picture. The above url gives some insight as to how public funded elections are carried out in a number of states. Questions such as how many parties would be supported, how many candidates, etc. How might we draw the line on who is eligible to run? Right now its sorted out by who has the most, or sufficient money to run. If funded publicly perhaps millions would want to run, etc.

WW, convusa is still active, I’m a Virginia delegate. ?? They did, and still do have problems with organizing an efficient web forum system. Republic Sentry was getting hit with something like 800 spam type attacks daily where anyone who logged on to RepSentry would receive a bunch of spam mail in their email. And, few seemed interested in party membership. But, the site was lacking in communications ability. I had some help setting it up in moodle but I never took the time to learn how to use moodle thus it became pretty much a static site over time.

Still, if I could interest a few people in supporting I would help keep a site active. It’s necessary to keep information on a site current and it helps to have a few writers for that purpose.

Otherwise - - -

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