Third Party & Independents Archives

2013, A Good Year For A Third Party?

Cognizant of the general welfare of the nation I am astounded that there is so little activity in the middle column. Seems a new start with a 3rd party is the last thing on anyone’s mind.

Gov't by scare tactics has become the norm
.
Legislation by midnight committees has become the norm. Complimented with barrels of pork and multi thousand page bills some read, few see and of which many have no knowledge.

Legislating laws with consequence but little/no effort at enforcement.

Extravagant fraud and corruption with tacit approval through minimal fines and no accountability.

Many more, but lets not be bothered with more tautology. Bartlett and Steele have a new book out, "The Betrayal Of The American Dream". They, and others of note, are coming around to the position that NAFTA and similar are largely responsible for our failed state. From Regan forward we've heard nothing but accolades for 'Globalism'. The people knew the score from the gitgo but the Corpocracy had the media and the money influence and nothing has changed there.

As Bartlett & Steele are saying, "what will it take to wake up the American people"? They've seen the better jobs offshored, their pensions go unfunded/disappear, wages lowered, prices heavily increased on goods, tuition, etc, inflation rising year over year while interest rates are near zero, biggest transfer of wealth in history from us to the 1%.

And, what does the future portend if the Corpocracy remains in charge of the railroad? The coming generations are expected to have a decreased quality of life largely driven by a $30-50B federal debt, increasing trade deficits, grossly more expensive healthcare, technological innovation such as robots that will expedite the transfer of wealth upward and put more pressure on the job market, sullied price competition through further monopolizing/conglomerating. In brief, the 1% will soon have a market limited to the 10%

.
We have dozens more cliffs to go over before the middle class can worked down to a level where we can compete on a more level playing field in a globalised economy. I suggest a new norm for unemployment will be on the order of 20% and GDP will seldom raise above 3%. Terms like 'career', 'living wage', 'retirement', will take on new definition.


IMO, the only way to real reform is thru a 3rd party with a different political attitude. Through such a party we could abolish corporate personhood, implement real campaign finance reform, implement a flat tax, return anti-trust law, etc. Remove the money influence and all things become way more possible,.


Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by Roy Ellis at January 7, 2013 9:38 PM
Comments
Comment #360127

Roy the people of this country won’t wake up, in fact more will be going to sleep. Your platform must include the reform of the corporate influenced conservative controlled education system. We are teaching to the test now, the math and science test, who cares about civics and personal finance. We have a whole generation shoehorned into math and science fields many won’t be able to shine in. They think the government you have mentioned above is the norm, they blame government, not those that pull the strings of our representatives in Congress. They have a 30 year head start on you and the third party.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 8, 2013 2:11 PM
Comment #360147

It’s a good time to vote out all the career politicians and set term limits.

Posted by: KAP at January 8, 2013 5:26 PM
Comment #360154

j2t2, perhaps when their children and grandchildren live under their roof they may come around to reform action. We are rapidly rolling up on that situation.

KAP, once the Corpocracy knows they’ve got a live one they turn on the money spigot and make that incumbent near impossible to defeat.

No way politicians are going to legislate term limits on themselves. Only, ONLY, through a 3rd party effort could we achieve term limits. Ironic, in that if we had decent, statesman like people in office we wouldn’t need term limits. There is much to be said for experience/knowledge/information gained through long tenure. Just unfortunate in our situation that it is being used to further corpocratic interests as opposed to the good of the country.

One has to question why, in this depression/recession why there is no longer talk of ‘creating jobs’. Why has there been no rush to implement a CCC/WPA type workforce to rebuild infrastructure. Why not a workforce to install pipelines, fiber optics, electrical grid? Answer is very evident - - necessary to break the back of the middle class if we are going to ever be able to compete in the global economy. Maybe we are settling in to the new norm right on schedule.

Otherwise = = =

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 8, 2013 10:27 PM
Comment #360160

We have several parties now. The problem is that the duoploy is keeping them off the ballots in a lot of states. If they can’t get on the ballot in every state they can’t get the votes it takes to kick the major parties out of Congress and the White House.
I’m all for term limits. Our government is supposed to of the people, for the people, and by the people. Not of the career politicians, for the career politicians, and by the career politicians.

Posted by: Ron Brown at January 8, 2013 11:59 PM
Comment #360222

Yes, there are easily 10 or more 3rd parties languishing out there. Several reasons for their inability to get going; ill conceived, niche issues of little concern, poor communications, whatever. But, IMO, and I believe most people would agree, the problem is that they are no different from the duopoly party. That is, any party that becomes strong enough to demonstrate some political influence would very quickly be co-opted by the money influence.

Although, I vote for 3rd party candidates I expect nothing from them other than some diversion to the public politic discussion. A REAL 3rd party would have to be formed in some rules designed to prevent co-option from the gitgo, at founding. If members don’t follow the rules then membership at large may be reject them from the party by majority vote. I’m sure most are aware I’ve flogged the keyboard obscenely on that one.

Getting back to the global economy, an article in today’s WaPo makes some very relevant points. Gist is that the Commerce Dept notes that fewer than 1% of US businesses sell overseas. A World Bank Study finds that the top 1% of exporters worldwide account for more than half of exports and the top 5% account for about 80% of exports.

The World Bank staff suggested that nations would be better served by backing the big business exporters rather than “cater to the mom-and –pop” shops that might be able to export to a country or two. A Georgetown Univ prof. recommended more effort in persuading China, India and other developing nations to open trade in their service sector so that US financial, engineering, insurance and others can better gain a toe hold in the export market.

I would suggest the better approach is to restore anti-trust law, bust up the big ones and create numerous smaller ones. Competition and way more jobs is what the country needs.

In the news that more than 70 Chinese companies have been delisted from the US stock market for fraud and asundry. About to hit the papers that some of these companies have been able to exceed Madoff’s bullion in their corrupt dealings. Legislators make lots of regulatory laws but most often enforcement is lax/nil. Little up front protection for the folks and any enforcement generally results in a paltry fine after the investors have been thoroughly defrocked.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 9, 2013 8:45 PM
Comment #360320

As in any problem solving exersize, the first step is to identify the problem. As of yet we have not performed that basic step. It is impossible to procede without identifying the basic problem.

That problem is not the corpocracy or career politicians. The problem is the 16th and the 17th amendments.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 11, 2013 11:25 PM
Comment #360370


WW, re the 16th. I assume you would agree that the fed needs some sort of revenue to provide the national defence. We could probably agree that the fed has used tax law to further corporatism, micromanage the economy, and in so doing make winners and losers in the tax paying public. Rolling back tax legislation to include only direct taxation would not change the ongoing misuse of collected revenue.

IMO, we should want to change taxation to a national flat tax. This would include taxation of all earned income such as gained from stock sales. It makes sense to me to drop taxation of corporations. But, in that regard, I would like to see anti=trust law returned as a regulatory tool.
Re the 17th. I’ve related in previous debates with you that I can remember stories of high corruption in state houses before the 17th. Well, we have the same thing with Senators elected by popular vote. I do believe the states lost much of their ability to fend off the fed with the 17th. In brief, repealing the 17th would probably be a good thing. Surely, corruption could be no worse and maybe the states could gain some respect from the fed instead of this carrot and stick stuff. IMO, the states are no longer ‘laboratories’, but beggars at the fed trough.
Still, WW, here is the rub, good buddie. You can’t HAVE a repeal of the 16th, 17th or any other th, so long as the Corpocracy remains intact. You can’t have REAL campaign finance reform, Real change in the tax code, or any other major reform until the tentacles of the money influence is removed from gov’t/politics.

WW, don’t we have a democracy based on how much wealth one has? If you have wealth you can buy yourself some democracy. No wealth, you get the dregs of the regime, etc.

Therefore, we need a new 3rd party specifically designed to put a spear thru the money influence. Having done that, then REAL reform is possible.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 13, 2013 4:42 PM
Comment #360416

Roy Ellis, it would be a good thing to remove the funding for this so-called “National Defense” considering the war-mongering the federal government has engaged in since the Korean War. We should call it what it is, Roy Ellis.

As for the 17th:

Still, WW, here is the rub, good buddie. You can’t HAVE a repeal of the 16th, 17th or any other th, so long as the Corpocracy remains intact. You can’t have REAL campaign finance reform, Real change in the tax code, or any other major reform until the tentacles of the money influence is removed from gov’t/politics.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 13, 2013 4:42 PM

I’m not saying it can happen tomorrow, but the defeatist attitude you have portrayed in the above quote isn’t going to help. You may also remember in previous discussions, my support of local government. This phylosophy is becoming more and more popular. Once local governments stop considering their existance is due to federal government handouts the sooner they will take back their own destiny and return to the roots of good government that belongs to the people. Once people stop hiding behind and clinging to the excuse of corruption and recognize the fact that the 17th did not solve that problem… Heck, Roy Ellis, I would be more inclined to say the 17th perpetuated the corruption at the state and federal level, not solved it. It’s mother is corruption!

Returning the money to the local level, returning the education to the local level, returning the govenment’s control over it’s corporations to the local level will simplify goverment, it’s laws, and the citizen’s lives.
Perhaps a third party should embrace a solution that addresses the root of the problem. Perhaps a third party should educate the people as to the purpose of Article 5 and how the state governments can force the repeal the 17th amendment to regain it’s role in governing this country.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 14, 2013 2:00 PM
Comment #360439

Weary Willie, I assume you are referring to achieving repeal of an amendment whereby state legislators broach a proposal to do so. Certainly, you are not referring to an article V Convention.

Either way, we know the latter is daid on arrival. And, trying to herd 50 state house assemblies to do anything is beyond the pale. The flea racing up the elephants leg, and so on - - -

IMO, state legislators are just as much part of the corpocracy as the fed legislators. Try to imagine, wrap your mind around how long it would take 3/4th’s of the states to ratify something.

If we ever hope for reform, of any significance, we will need to coalesce around a new 3rd party with a different political attitude, IMO.

There is some chatter about more states moving to implement a no-income tax policy. Supposedly, the states that have no income tax are doing well economically. But, those states are rife with fees and such tactics to fill their coffers. I would like a tax system that is totally transparent and can’t be fiddled with to make winners and losers, If the gov needs more revenue then they only have to raise the rate and tenth or so of a percentage point. We spend some $430B to administer some 73k pages of tax policy annually. Just adopt a flat tax and we could pay off the debt and put some 400k people to work doing something productive. Win, win, win. Come on WW, throw in for a 3rd party. Over.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 14, 2013 5:52 PM
Comment #360446

j2t2, what should we think about the fact that, as our infrastructure has supposedly crumbled, such as 40 year electric poles that are going on 80, there is no effort being made to gin up a CCC type workforce? Let’s see, $5.25B has been spent to widen the panama canal and they are now half way finished. China is mfctring cranes for the various ports and widening the canal, 16 locks were designed by the Dutch and built by Italy. Next month Belgians will be put on barges by Belgium workers and shipped by South Korea to Panama in a project managed by the French.

Other than some ‘investment’ money I don’t see the US or US workers involved. Wonder why?

In the news that nursing graduates are having a hard time finding work. More wondering - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 14, 2013 6:21 PM
Comment #360447

I’m all for a third party, Roy Ellis. But to do what? Jump into the same quagmire the other two parties are in and expect to change it? I’m as much a defeatist as you when it comes to a third party working inside this system. Even if it makes a difference it will only achieve a second party status inside the same system we have now!

Identify the problem. Don’t excuse it!

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 14, 2013 6:23 PM
Comment #360473

Ok WW, one more time, with feeling. We can’t tolerate, we don’t want, just another 3rd party. We must stand up a 3rd party from a grassroots movement, founded in some rules, much like the Constitution. The rules can be changed but, only by 2/3rds approval by the national voting membership. Changing a rule would be much like amending the Constitution. Not easy and seldom done. The Constitution is over 200 years old and still serves the country well. There is no reason to believe a party, well constructed/founded, can’t do as well.

This party must be designed to advocate for one or two reform issues that address the major problem confronting the country, the ‘money influence’. IMO, that would be to abolish corporate personhood and implement REAL campaign finance reform. Any elected incumbent who doesn’t fully support/advocate for those two issues could be rejected from the party by an up/down vote by the membership. To disagree on an agenda item an incumbent would have to take his case to the membership and convince two thirds or more of the membership to agree with his/her ideas.

I believe, when people saw how the party operated they would gravitate to such a party, making it numero uno over the oligarchy.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 14, 2013 10:14 PM
Comment #360482

How does this sound, Roy Ellis:

We support election systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives. We advocate initiative, referendum, recall and repeal when used as popular checks on government.
We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.

Do you agree with these statements?

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 14, 2013 11:34 PM
Comment #360508
what should we think about the fact that, as our infrastructure has supposedly crumbled, such as 40 year electric poles that are going on 80, there is no effort being made to gin up a CCC type workforce?

All Americans should think it is criminal to that our government isn’t spending money hand over fist on modernizing our national infrastructure. However in the political environment created by the tea party this can’t happen. The problem we will see is that until the uber conservatives/libertarians/corporatist have enough control of government to privatize all of our infrastructure for the gain of a few we will be bogged down with funneling our tax dollars overseas,fighting wars and protecting Chinese ships, along with the jobs.

On the subject of the 17th amendment it is wrong to think that reverting to handpicked Senators will solve any problem. The cost to get elected and the means with which our representatives must subvert themselves in order to get elected is the problem. The system is broken but reverting to the old system won’t work any better either.

The income tax should be progressive, it is that simple. The loopholes should be fixed and a VAT on goods brought into this country should be added to help keeps income taxes down. A return to the 1800’s really isn’t what we want.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 15, 2013 3:47 PM
Comment #360518


WW, the positions you proffer are democratic in general but broad and vague. IMO, we would garner little support for a 3rd party if these were our main bang agenda items. “”We defend the right of individuals to form corporations””. Not a very catchy reform issue, IMO.
If I understand correctly, you favor PAC and Super-PAC support for candidates and agree that money is free speech. I don’t agree here.
Otherwise, without having more detail I would be in general agreement with you.
A 3rd party would, IMO, would need an agenda that would light a fire under the masses. Something like, abolish corporate personhood, campaign finance reform, give members the vote to reject party members who, for whatever reason, fall out of favor, something the voter would view as a means to REAL reform of gov’t.

J2, shouldn’t we question why the corpocracy chose to bail out the too big to fails, as usual, and see no need to gin up a CCC or WPA type workforce to get some infrastructure rebuilt and put people to work? The EU qualifies for a recession. Graduate student nurses having a hard time finding work. One fourth of 401k’s have been tapped by folks trying to keep afloat. We are perhaps a third of the way thru to hopefully a soft landing re a globalised economy. Best thing we could do, IMO, is to all agree to $5/hr wage and save ourselves a lot of pain and headache.
I would like repeal of the 17th more because that’s the way the Founders intended. No reason to believe it would change anything as the money influence would still be in place unimpeded. The folks won’t get representation until the money influence is negated.

I like the idea of a flat tax and also a VAT trade tax. In our desire to carry water for the world we are the only country I am aware of that doesn’t use a VAT for trade. Pardon the grammer. In lieu of a flat tax I would support the state’s dropping income tax and using sales tax/fees for revenue. A flat tax and/or a VAT would prevent the corpocracy from using the tax code to make winners and losers.

Let’s try to identify the major problem preventing REAL reform of gov’t. I’ll go first; the money influence.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 15, 2013 8:57 PM
Comment #360521

j2t2, as usual, you have mistaken how the 17th amendment affected our government. Senators weren’t handpicked, they were elected by the state representatives. The 17th amendment caused the subversion in the election process. The 17th amendment caused the costs of electing senators to skyrocket. In fact, the election of senators before the 17th amendment was ratified cost nothing.
No one has said the only option is to revert back to the old system. I do not see the possibility of news being delivered from town to town by people riding horseback with parchment in their saddlebags. No, the election of senators by state representatives would be enhanced by the near instant communication brought about by television, radio, and the web. The straw man argument that corruption would prevail again as before would be prevented by the communication we now enjoy, along with a citizenry more closely in touch with the election process at the local level. It would be the state representatives, elected by their districts, being held accountable for their decision when electing senators. The district representatives would be more responsive to the thousands of people they represent instead of the senator being less responsive to the millions of people in an entire state.

To use the bogus assertion that the “18th century” would overwhelm us and smoke filled rooms breeding corruption would again control our election process is asinine and counter productive. Especially when the current process in fraught with corruption and back room deals now. To put it in perspective, the 17th amendment solved nothing. It only subverted the original intent of the U.S. Constitution.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2013 9:31 PM
Comment #360525

Weary politicians appointing politicians instead of people voting for the representative of their choice! Seriously do I need to go any farther that that? The reason your movement leaders have chosen this bit of nonsense is because it makes it cheaper for the Koch bros and others to put their people in place, or fascism as we call it. Telling the people they cannot be trusted to choose who represents them in DC just reeks of aristocracy IMHO.

Roy the founding fathers also counted blacks as 3/5ths a person and women couldn’t vote. They made tremendous strides but they were not perfect. They recognized that, so should we.

Bailing out the banks is a done deal Roy. We don’t need to question that, what we need to question is why they didn’t do as Iceland did. Bail out the people and throw the banksters in jail.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 16, 2013 12:38 AM
Comment #360556


The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

j2t2, ignorance is showing in your post.

The reason your movement leaders have chosen this bit of nonsense is because it makes it cheaper for the Koch bros and others to put their people in place, or fascism as we call it.

The Koch brothers were not elected to any state legislature! Their influence in the political process is a direct result of the 17th amendment! It is a direct result of the 17th amendment that their ability to purchase senators exists. Look at this issue without your ignorant bias, j2t2. See it what is is, not what you want it to be.

Roy Ellis, no, I do not support PAC or Money is free speech. In fact, we have already had this discussion concerning campaign finance. The solution we came up with, unfortunately, was too simple to be considered politically feasible. Not enough room for lawyers to interpret it. Not enough money to support the media. Simple enough for the common voter to understand. Imposed limits. You know, none of the things that make the current political process what is is today. We certainly can’t change the current process now, can we? Not when the perpetual tinkering around the edges employs all those voters.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 16, 2013 2:29 PM
Comment #360557

It would seem that the better way to fill Senator seats is somewhere between the original Constitution and the 17th. A popular vote by state residents but also some way of tying the Senator to the state legislative body. Something like requiring the Senator to vote on certain state legislation. This would subject a senator to the stream of state politics and keep the public eye on him/her.

With the problems facing this country the 17th is a bit player at this time, IMO. 40% of wealth in the hands of 1%, 50% pay no income tax, $20T federal debt left to our children/grandchildren, healthcare soon to double, retirement funds being depleted to stay afloat, STEM people and others going into their 3rd-4th year of unemployment.

A couple of years back if folks tried to keep a Wal-Mart out of their neighborhood, Wal-Mart would show up at the city council with WTO reps. Now, Wal-Mart is advertising that they will start buying ‘American’. How globalist is that? What might the WTO think? Should we re-define ‘free trade’?
What is the Corpocracy thinking??


Removing the money influence is the way Real reform and that can only be done thru a 3rd party w/a/diff pol att - - -, IMO. It can’t come thru a wealthy fair hair’d dude, has to come from ‘people gotta have it’ grass roots effort.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 16, 2013 2:31 PM
Comment #360565

Isn’t that just more tinkering around the edges, Roy Ellis?
Think about what you’re saying! “Keep the senator tied to the state legislature” That’s what the 17th amendment abolished; tying the senator to the state legislature. At what point do you just say it’s not working. Get rid of it! Go back to what did work for almost 150 years!

The 16th and the 17th amendments allowed the federal government to become a cookie jar full of money that the people could dip into to get what they wanted. There are no checks and balances now. The states are no longer the laboratories of change they used to be. They no longer control their own destiny. They are at the mercy of an overpowering federal government that seeks only to perpetuate it’s own power.

We’re not going to change a thing if we can only insist on tinkering with the existing system.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 16, 2013 3:37 PM
Comment #360594

WW, if Corpocracy were daid I would feel better about repealing the 17th. As it is, repealing the 17th would just revert us to the Blogovitch’s selling a senators seat to the highest bidder. Statesmanship is daid, gone from the big houses. Repeal the 17th and the ARA and corpocracy will quickly move in and buy every Senator who gets the nod.

If Corpocracy were daid I would look on a number of things differently. Do away with corporate income tax, repeal the 16th and 17th, implement some REAL CFR, flat tax, AVC and so on —-

But, WW, I swear to you, promise you, you won’t get any of that until the money influence is taken to the mat, 3rd party and all that - - -

Let’s check in a see how we are doing today w/o a 3rd party at our back. 26 executive orders and all the congressional corpocracy say, ‘amen, thank you for that’. ‘World Bank trims it’s growth forecast’, expects a contraction for the year. US economy to face the music for failing to rebuild infrastructure. Ranks of working poor increasing. “404 page report relates US lead shorter lives. Of 17 countries measured the US placed daid last in life expectancy, EVEN though we lead the planet in the amount we spend on health care.

Not a pessimist, WW, just want a 3rd party designed to scrunch the money influence and save us from ourselves.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 16, 2013 9:41 PM
Comment #360598
The Koch brothers were not elected to any state legislature! Their influence in the political process is a direct result of the 17th amendment! It is a direct result of the 17th amendment that their ability to purchase senators exists. Look at this issue without your ignorant bias, j2t2. See it what is is, not what you want it to be.

Don’t be ridiculous Weary, the 17th amendment is just one more conservative attempt to usurp the will of the people for the gain of the few. They want to keep the vote away from the people. Don’t be fooled by the rhetoric from Beck and the Birchers Weary, they have ulterior motives. I realize you believe the nonsense about the 17th amendment but the fact is we have a hundred years of proof that it is corruption that was the problem not democracy when the 17th amendment was ratified. All it does is save the Koch Bros and others of their ilk from having to spend as much to corrupt the government.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 16, 2013 11:05 PM
Comment #360625

I don’t know what country you’re living in j2t2. The will of the people has already been usurped. When was the last time you had a choice in an election that wasn’t spoon fed to you by the media and the current political establishment?

We can thank the likes of people who believe this country is a democracy for the condition it’s in. When the people find out they can vote themselves a paycheck it’s all over but the welfare queen singing.

We can thank people like you, j2t2, for the debt and the corruption and the waste and duplicity because you can’t see past your bias political blinders. Thank you very much. I hope you’re not in the way when the Occupy j2t2’s Street folks show up on your doorstep.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 17, 2013 8:48 PM
Comment #360626

Weary the reason the will of the people have been usurped has nothing to do with the 16th or 17th amendment.We have conservative extremist that believe the intent of the founding fathers was to have elections so costly the outcome depends on the amount of money one can raise.

The nonsense you are spouting is Glenn Beck drivel. Movement leaders have you making the poor your enemy, while we spend billions on the military to fight overseas. They have you protecting corporate power while suppressing labor. It is their rampant corruption and cronyism that you cannot see because you are trying to convince us to return to the robber baron days and justifying election fraud by the same movement leaders. The attempt to overturn the 17th amendment is just another voter suppression tactic Weary.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 17, 2013 10:38 PM
Comment #360628

First of all, j2t2, I am the poor. I do not listen to Glenn Beck or any of your talk radio whipping boys. You need to open your eyes and look at what is going on around you, j2t2! The poor in this country weren’t institutional poor before the 17th amendment. We weren’t spending billions fighting wars oversees before the 17th amendment. Were you asleep in 2008, Mr. Rip Van j2t2? That was robber barons at work if it was anything! Do you actually believe all that money just disappeared? How could anyone be so ignorant to believe that money just vanished like the gold in the WTC Fed Depository? And can you honestly be so gullible as to believe there isn’t voter fraud, j2t2? At least without the 17th amendment we would know how many votes were cast and by whom and for who!

Someone needs to get their head out of the partisan sand and wake up to some basic facts.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 18, 2013 12:18 AM
Comment #360631
The poor in this country weren’t institutional poor before the 17th amendment. We weren’t spending billions fighting wars oversees before the 17th amendment.

But Weary they were poor none the less, in greater numbers than now. We were still at war, Weary, before the 17th amendment perhaps the costs weren’t as high but then the technology of war is expensive. The 17th amendment is not the culprit despite the accusations by you, Beck, the Birchers and other movement leaders.

Weary there is a difference between voter fraud and voter suppression. There is relatively little of the former and the repubs/conservatives are engaging in much more of the latter as they see people voting for those that represent them to be a hindrance to their cause. The fascist do not like the people voting do they? Weary doesn’t like the people voting does he? Therefore using your logic regarding the poor, wars and the 17th Weary must be a fascist. But you are not Weary, your movement leaders on the other hand….So speaking of getting the head out perhaps it is time you looked around, that ain’t coffee you are smelling.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 18, 2013 8:55 AM
Comment #360652

Well, great green gobs of grimy greasy gopher guts, no centrist position between you guys. It would help immensely if you could come to realize that our problems are not with parties, the 17th, the 16th, congress, and so on - - -.

Our problems lie with the people. Bill O’ said it this pm; the people could have removed Hitler, the people could have removed Stalin, Cubans could have removed Castro and so on - - -

It’s the ‘money influence’ guys. Our democracy is a joke, a sick joke at this late date. The people could limit/restrict the money influence and return politicians to focusing on ‘we the people’ but the people don’t seem to give a whit. Worse, those that do seem to think that thru the duopoly we can straighten out our problems. That is sick, near death. Really.

New GAO report, which won’t show in the MSM. 2011-12 audit shows the path we are on is ‘’unsustainable’’, dollar will collapse. $200B interest on the debt will, in 2 yrs become $1T/annually.

Maybe a little more tautology:
Sandy rebuild to use highest bidder contractors.
Taxes were raised to 77% to fund WWI. What about Iraq/Afghan/Middle East wars?

IMF requesting further socializing of banking system. Your know, your money to prop up foreign banks like the PIGS and so on - - -

Corpocracy is on the move to raise money (raze your money) in fight against rising coastal waters.

MSM reports more fed spending on immigration enforcement than on all other principal federal criminal law enforcement agencies combined. Lie, but nothing new here. Gov’t will lie to the folks in a heartbeat. Like how Obamacare will provide cheaper insurance but in reality will lead to collapse of US economy.

Been 30-40 years and E-verify or similar not implemented. SS and IRS folks know the identity of millions here illegally but keep this info underwraps, etc. Approximately half over stay their visa but, with all our digital prowess we can’t track those who don’t leave. One writer sums up immigration well; “The most lavishly funded, gold-plated enforcement system in the world can’t make up for systematic nullification of the immigration law through prosecutorial discretion, deferred action and other means used by this administration to protect illegal immigrants”. Not the administration, it’s the corpocracy, the money influence.

173k inmates submit false tax returns. Like it hasn’t been happening for the past 20 years or so?? Ex-NO mayor in the docks for corruption. How folks are unable to recognize a broken gov’t I don’t know.

The President’s Jobs Council has held no meetings within the last year. An so on - - -

Otherwise, I am left to wheedle, beg and plead with readers to support a 3rd party effort w/a/diff pol att - - -

Otherwise = = =

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 18, 2013 11:14 PM
Comment #360672

Roy Ellis, I agree with you. There is a desperate need for an alternative to the current political parties in Washington D.C. But, take a look at the right side of this page at the bottom of the advertisement column. There are sixteen 3rd parties already in existence. I’m sure you’re partial to your Republic Sentry Party. Perhaps your Republic Sentry Party can work with one of the existing 3rd parties and mold it to more closely resemble your positions. Your party may very well be able to absorb many of the 3rd parties listed above.
Have you tried to contact the leaders of these parties to discuss common ground?

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 19, 2013 2:19 PM
Comment #360684

WW, after 3-4 years of absolutely no interest I threw in the towel. I did think about, blogged about, joining other 3rd parties but our solution can only come thru a 3rd party designed from the gitgo to take the money influence to the mat. I didn’t see such a founding possible when compromising with other parties just to stand up another 3rd party.

Understandably, people are looking for a Messiah with a Clinton hairdo and plenty of money to throw around in getting a new 3rd party off the ground, a handsome Ross Perot, etc. But, we need a party to come up from grass roots support which will require work and years of effort, IMO.

I made a couple of feeble attempts at local organization but I’m not a street person. Only thing I know to do is keep flogging the keyboard, hope a few readers take note and maybe get something going.

In 4-5 years people will be more likely to take interest in a 3rd party and I hope to be around to tell them we don’t just need another 3rd party, etc.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 19, 2013 8:11 PM
Comment #360689

Well, I’ve been saying from the gitgo that local government is the most important government. It’s where the majority of our money should go. It’s where our focus on politicians should be. If we had a local government administer our own programs instead of laundering our money thru the federal government, and ignore the federal programs that the local government doesn’t want or need, most of the problems caused by the federal government would be moot and disappear.

Many local governments, as you know, have abolished corporate personhood at their local level. They have returned to the idea that a corporation is a tool to be used by the local government. Many local governments have also created their own currency that is to be used locally by local citizens. Both ideas are legal and both ideas have solved many of the problems that the federal government manufactures to keep us in slavery.

I don’t give up hope. I’m not a people person either, but if I get into a political conversation with anyone it usually comes around to the same solutions you aspire to.
Ending corporate personhood, a sound currency, relief from the party mentality when voting, ect.

I to hope I will see it come to fruition during my lifetime. Bring on the next depression!! That should speed it along nicely when people find out the federal government can’t bail them out any longer.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 20, 2013 3:53 AM
Comment #360708


WW, agree we do hear more of local and state gov’ts attempting to restrain FED encroachment on local/state gov’t. IMO, local people should have a say in whether a walmart etc locates in their community, WTO butt out, etc. If a community doesn’t want the pollution, noise, light, etc they should be able to send the corporation to look elsewhere. A state should be able to mfctr incandescent light bulbs and sell them within the state w/o FED intervention and so on - - -

Well, the New World Order is supposed to deliver us to a soft landing somewhere down the road. But, the people may bolt before we reach that point what with the 1% income vaulting into outerspace while the working class continues to shed shekels in preparing to compete in the globalised economy.

A little comedy on the side: some fool wrote an article in today’s WaPo that by selecting an all white cabinet the President is choosing brain over race, etc. We should be watching the tube tomorrow to see if we can determine which ‘players’ will receive ambassadorial post, czar positions and the like.

Agree WW, about all we can do is keep flogging the keyboard and hope the next recession/depression will set us on a different path.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 20, 2013 8:33 PM
Comment #360709

WW, in today’s WaPo re millions fraudently ripped off thru corpocracy in defense/military orgs in Iraq/Afghan. Much of it thru mil contracting officers working with contractors.
I know, happens in every good war.

In testimony to Senator Kerry re BPA plastic products the biz rep testified to Kerry that FDA accepts studies only from the product mfctr, doesn’t solicit/accept outside studies. A marine bio type reports that in pulling a seine a mile thru the ocean results in 46x more plastic particles than plankton.

Broken gov’t WW.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at January 20, 2013 11:07 PM
Comment #360748
Sandy rebuild to use highest bidder contractors.

Not the highest bidder Roy the lowest of qualified bidders. Better than offering no bid contracts to out of state contractors, such as Christie did, to haul away the debris. Union contractors in New Jersey will build a better product in New Jersey than the out of state guys coming in working for cheap so it is smart to get quality while rebuilding IMHO.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 21, 2013 6:41 PM
Comment #360802
Not the highest bidder Roy the lowest of qualified bidders.

Roy Ellis, do you think j2t2 would be quibbling if it was a republican administration?

Better than offering no bid contracts to out of state contractors, such as Christie did, to haul away the debris.

Or find fault when it is a Democratic administration?

No, I don’t think so. It is nothing but partisan spittle.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 23, 2013 3:54 AM
Comment #360804

But Weary New Jersey is a republican administration.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/politically_connected_florida.html

Posted by: j2t2 at January 23, 2013 6:48 AM
Comment #360811

New York isn’t.

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