Third Party & Independents Archives

Third Party Presidential Debate Is A Rounder

I watched the Presidential debate for those ‘other’ presidential candidates: Dr. Jill Stein, Rocky Anderson, Virgil Goode and Gary Johnson. The debate was hosted by
Free And Equal Elections’ and founder, Christina Tobin with Larry King moderating. I found the debate Informative, refreshing, enlightening, unlike the duopoly debates.

The debaters position on issues were surprisingly similar. Term limits received a lot of time. Protecting and following the Constitution was a popular topic. Repealing the Patriot Act, allowing the arrest of US citizens without warrant, and the general loss of liberty and freedom under the recent Bush and Obama administrations. Balancing the budget, paying down the federal debt, and reducing defense spending were hot topics. Also, limiting the use of defense forces to real wars that are signed off on by Congress, getting us out of Iraq, Afghanistan and, nation building enterprises were high on the list.

Virgil Goode stood out by standing firm on limiting spending. Other candidates would fund college tuition costs for qualified students but Virgil said we could no longer afford such largess.

Virgil also stood against legalizing marijuana/hemp while other candidates would legalize and control production and sale.

Virgil was strong for term limits while Jill Stein wanted to abolish corporate personhood. Virgil felt that term limits was sufficient to defeat PAC money and believed that term limits would pass congress if done so by exempting the current bunch of 'careerist' now in congress.

Jill Stein, although she is a Dr. who favors legalizing MJ, would get my vote as she explicitly called for removing personhood rights from corporations and repealing 'money is free speech' law.

It was a good give and take and will hopefully serve as a spark for some third party initiative. But, as much as I want to see a third party come to fruition it can't be just another third party. A party must be founded in such a way as to circumvent co-option by the money influence or special interest groups. Otherwise, in a very brief period of the time a 'new' party would be captured by the money influence and we'd be back to the status quo.

Free And Equal Elections will host a second debate this coming Tuesday at 9PM from Washington, DC. I hope you can find the time for this upcoming debate.

Posted by Roy Ellis at October 28, 2012 8:19 PM
Comments
Comment #355621

www.freeandequal.org

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 29, 2012 3:34 AM
Comment #355762

Roy Ellis, you frame your arguement around the notion the party is first, and the party should be the spokesman.

You also resist corporate personhood.

You can’t have it both ways.

Roy Ellis, you must believe in the Individual before you can build a community.


The Individual Citizen must be the boss.

No corporation can speak for itself. It needs an Individual to speak for it.

That Individual is already guaranteed it’s right to speak.

To include a tool, a corporation, into the realm of a human being is to reduce the lot of us to tools.

I see the benefits of the SCOTUS’s decision that has the Democratic Party Elligalellite up in arms. I hear radio commercials from small business owners buying time. They’re not buying time to promote their business! They’re buying time to denounce the Obama (what, campaign? Presidency?, What? I’m not sure.)

If a small business guy buys radio advertizement time in his location, and he uses this time to convince people to repudiate the current situation, and to do a 180, well, I don’t know how you can miss it!

Campaign commercials used to be from the campaign. Since the SCOTUS ruling small business people are using their own money wisely and they are using it to express their own opinion!

And the Democratics don’t think that’s a good idea…

Go figure..

Posted by: Weary Wilie at October 30, 2012 7:48 AM
Comment #355780

By the numbers Weary –
“”Roy Ellis, you frame your arguement around the notion the party is first, and the party should be the spokesman.””
I detest political parties. The Founders left them out of the Constitution. And, right out of the start gate Hamilton figures a way to influence congress by herding people into groups. Groups led by just a couple of folks who have been able to seize control of the groupies. So, Jefferson and company had no other recourse but to fight fire with fire.
After a couple of hundred years the two parties have complete control, albeit a couple of Independents are in there that have to vote with the Dems. Good show, I guess.
When I write about founding a new third party with a diff pol att I preface it with ‘we must fight fire with fire’. That’s the only reason for a 3rd party, to fight fire with fire.

“”You also resist corporate personhood. You can’t have it both ways.””

Yes, just as the duopoly has complete control of the political process, corporations have become the driver of the political party, thus the process. Corporate personhood was fraudulently put into the Constitution. A court was never convened to hear a case as to whether corporations should be granted human rights. ‘Money is free speech’ is akin to law by witchcraft.

Virgil Goode thinks we can defeat the money influence by inacting term limits where congresspersons supposedly will have time to legislate rather than dial for dollars. I don’t believe that. Corporations will donate to drive the duopoly to overturn any term limits that might get pushed into law. Corporations are the reason we haven’t been able to legislate term limits now.

Jill Stein has it right, corporate personhood must abolished and the only way we can get around the Corpocracy to do that is thru a 3rd party designed to be impervious to the money influence and with the primary mission of abolishing CP and implementing REAL campaign finance reform. Jill believes, and I would support her, that public funding of elections is the better way to go.

“”Roy Ellis, you must believe in the Individual before you can build a community.””

Agree Weary, but how far can you stretch community. I don’t have a problem with local politics as the scope of activities is generally not so large that the man on the street can’t be informed of the good, bad and ugly. But, ‘community’ loses it, even at the state level for me. Most of the actions taken locally are transparent to the public but as gov’t grows so do the secret back room deals. Read C&J’s current article in the red thread re crony capitalism for example.

“”The Individual Citizen must be the boss.””

Yes, to the extent possible and that is exactly what the citizen ain’t today. The amplitude of the ‘voice’ of your small businessperson doesn’t even break the noise level compared to the amplitude of the corporations and their groupies voices.

“”No corporation can speak for itself. It needs an Individual to speak for it. That Individual is already guaranteed it’s right to speak.””

Exactly correct, Weary. Which is why CP is not needed. When CP is abolished people will go right on speaking for corporations because it’s their right to speak.

“”To include a tool, a corporation, into the realm of a human being is to reduce the lot of us to tools.””
Tools, maybe. But it does usurp the Republic, the Constitution and the democratic principles we once lived by.
I advocate for a 3rd party with rules as a way of expediting and focusing the party agenda on two things: the abolishment of CP and implementation of REAL CFR. Once those goals are achieved the agenda could revert to being driven by pols/candidates rather than party. But, the rules, while it would be nice to unload them, would have to remain in place to prevent, forever, return of the money influence. Just because you abolish CP and implement CFR doesn’t mean that folks won’t still be out there trying to ‘group up’ and get control.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 30, 2012 11:14 AM
Comment #355804

http://freeandequal.org/updates/free-and-equal-elections-foundation-changes-presidential-debate-to-november-5-due-to-hurricane/

Due to Sandy the 2nd 3rd party debate date has been changed to Monday, Nov 5th at 9PM EST. The debate will last 1 ½ hours and with only two 3rd party candidates, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson participating. Moderator TBD.

“”Viewers can catch the live debate between Jill Stein and Gary Johnson at www.freeandequal.org/live and RT America’s YouTube channel. Additional media may join the live feed.”“

I’m sure C-Span will bdcst live or replay or both.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 30, 2012 6:30 PM
Comment #355813

http://news.yahoo.com/rt-washington-dc-studio-host-second-round-third-034000786.html

Russian TV will broadcast the debate live from their Wash DC studio. The US media is choosing to ignore this debate. Jill Stein and her VP candidate was arrested and jailed for trying to get 3rd party presidential candidates included in the duopoly debates.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 30, 2012 9:07 PM
Comment #355815

That would be channel 280 on Dish Network. Cable will broadcast to several cities.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 30, 2012 9:09 PM
Comment #355832

Roy Ellis, this election cycle has given many hollywood stars the courage to refer to themselves as “Conservative”. I wonder if Clint Eastwood could ad-lib a discussion with the empty chair that represents the voters that vote a party line simply because they always have, or their parents alway have. If celebrities would effectively describe the true facts about party politics and issues without the MSM filtering them many voters would come to a third party because they find their own lacking.

I think that if a third party explained how our debt is owed mostly to our own Federal Reserve Bank they would switch to a party that supported ending the Fed and liquidating that debt.

Maybe a “Where’s George?” could be done on a dollar bill that enters the process as a donation to a political party.

How about our hollywood celebrities make an intelligent appeal to people who have never voted before. Get the 50% or so that don’t vote or even pay attention interested in having a voice in the process.

You can never say a third party will never happen. Never say never. Maybe a third party needs it’s roots in someting other than the MSM’s compost pile of deflecting issues.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 31, 2012 3:45 AM
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Posted by: Coach Outlet at October 31, 2012 4:10 AM
Comment #355947

Interesting antidotes, Weary. A really far out concept, celebrities hawking 3rd parties. Yore brain is way rare, IMO.

No doubt 3rd parties are coming. I believe the better way is thru a grass roots movement. But, most likely it will come thru a zillionaire flame with a Clinton/Romney like hairdo. Sans the heartthrob, Perot comes to mind as a likely stereo typical candidate. But, any of the four candidates in the first debate represent good presidential material.

A fair number of folks, look at the organizations supporting ‘fair and equal’, want a 3rd party based on the ‘facts’ as you suggest. But, the millions required for a party base will develop thru hard economic times, IMO. Another 4 to 6 years perhaps.

But, when it happens I do hope we can get a party founded in some rules designed to lock out the money influence. I think the Republic Sentry Party serves as a good model/representative for that idea. Otherwise, parties come and parties go - - -there must be 50 out there now that are dead ended, flagging as they represent nothing new of any import. We don’t need ‘just another political party’, we need a party with a ‘diff pol att’, IMO.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 31, 2012 11:11 AM
Comment #356087

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hawking?s=t

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shill?s=t


Roy Ellis,

How are you going to get a grass roots organization started on a blog on the internet?

Wouldn’t you be happier if you didn’t have to worry about things on the least and worst coasts?

Cain’t we all just git along?

I’m so tired of the bullshit being fed the public.

I’ve been asking my father how he will vote and he hasn’t changed his mind, yet he is constantly complaining about the things that are happening on a daily basis.

He’s unhappy! He’s unsatisfied! He’s Pissed! He’s scared!, and he expects the guy he’s been voting for all his life to finally step up to the plate and pull this thing out for him! My Dad calls it Loyality. Anyone interested in trying to teach an old dog?

My Dad thinks FDR sits on The Right Hand Of God.

FDR died when my Dad was about eight or ten or twelve. My Dad was born in ‘34. You do the math if you’re still capable.


(I wasn’t talking to you, Roy Ellis.)

But, What if Stalin woke up from his grave and said;

“I’m going to harvest the unemployed and build a roadway so the military can move from coast to coast.”

What if FDR woke up and said; “We..We..We need more healthcare!”.

“And we are going to buy your used car!”


Do you think my Dad thinks Obama is FDR the way Obama thinks he is FDR?

I don’t think so.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 1, 2012 6:43 AM
Comment #356104


hawk
1 [hawk] Show IPA
noun
1.
any of numerous birds of prey of the family Accipitridae,having a short, hooked beak, broad wings, and curvedtalons, often seen circling or swooping at low altitudes.
2.
any of several similar, unrelated birds, as the nighthawk.
3.
Informal. a person who preys on others, as a sharper.
4.
Also called war hawk. Informal. a person, especially one inpublic office, who advocates war or a belligerent nationalattitude. Compare dove ( def 5 ) .
5.
any person who pursues an aggressive policy in business,government, etc.: The corporation is now run by a bunch ofyoung hawks.
verb (used without object)
6.
to fly, or hunt on the wing, like a hawk.
7.
to hunt with hawks.

And,


shill
[shil] Show IPA Slang.
noun
1.
a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy othersinto participating, as at a gambling house, auction,confidence game, etc.
2.
a person who publicizes or praises something or someone forreasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship orloyalty.


Which word best represents celebrities carrying water for 3rd parties? Hawk(ing) #5 or Shill(ing) # 1&2? Both seem equally appropriate IMO.

Looking over the waste land of 3rd parties it does leave one in a quandary. IMO, people see a 3rd party as less than or little different from the duopoly. Most of the so-called reforms are little different than those proposed, during election periods, by the duopoly.

Other parties are to the extreme in abolishing this and that, slashing agencies, cabinets, central banking and so on. People don’t believe such agendas can be achieved in any measure.

It is my think that if you take on one or two of the issues that most folks believe to be serious to grave problem(s), that might be doable. The big issue, IMO, is the money influence in politics and gov’t. It’s clear to all that the Corpocracy is so entrenched that the only way out would be thru a 3rd party. But, that party has to be founded in such a way as to be impervious to co-option by the money influence.

That should be a seller but, alas, no takers. Therefore, one has to assume that the public has no confidence in the party to be able to shunt the money influence. I think that by giving party members oversight over their elected officials, providing a way for them to vote for/against US Senators and Representatives on a national basis offers a solution. A Georgian member, for example, could vote against a US Senator (member) of the state of California, rejecting the Senator from the party if enough members vote him/her down. That’s pretty strong stuff. To do more would bring the ire of folks re discrimination, killing democracy, and so on. It would, IMO be sufficient to keep the money influence at bay and weed out the hawkers and shills as well.

I’ll know we are on the right path when a Ricky Skaggs (celebrity) agrees to do a venue with Republic Sentry.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 1, 2012 11:25 AM
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Roy Ellis,

Thanks for keeping up on the spam. It’s a bother, yes?

I built a monument to myself at work today.

My boss said it was manditory overtime.

I thought, “Ok, I took a day off last week, I’ll make it up this week.”

I don’t know what happened in the next few days that made my boss come to us and say they only need one of us, the other doesn’t have to work overtime.

I raised my hand and volunteered to work the overtime. I will work the overtime, this time.

Later on my co-worker asked me what beer I drink. He wanted to repay me for giving him the day off. He said he has another roofing job that he needed to get off his books before he settled down for the winter.

I like this guy. His name is Al.

I show up to do my overtime and they tell me I’m going to be cleaning! I’m a cleaning person with someone’s ring in my nose!

I was introduced to a room crowded with pallets of boxes containing the product we produce. I actually put a 6x6 cardboard box on a shelf that contained only 2 pieces of inventory that would have fit in a pill bottle.

Because I have an IQ of 126 I realized the various boxes were consistantly the same size.

I started thinking about my back.

I got six screws and two metal plates in my back. I’m proud to call them the Black Widow. They serve me well, and they will serve me again!

I shall use them to build a monument to myself!


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