Third Party & Independents Archives

Moderate in the Middle

Middle being the key word, there are rational, logical, moderate middle opinions, and they are also generally the middle class speaking. The middle is what this is all about because it’s what President Obama and Mitt Romney are battling over. The problem with this, is that the middle are far too wide-eyed to believe or be sucked in to their make believe promises and incompetent jabs at one another.

So in between these two sub-adequate men stand a group of people who are in a position of disappointment and refuse to settle. Generally speaking, those on the right can agree on things with the "middle," and those on the left can also agree. Why then, is this so difficult? The reason why people are so opinionated and angry about this election is because the options suck.

There's a real issue when one can't "multi-task" with issues. For some, it is the end of the Earth if a woman can't make her own decisions when it comes to her body; even more important than the nearly 10% of the population unemployed. Neither of those things are right. On the other hand, telling an LGBT member that your taxes are more important than the status of their civil rights. Both are important. No, social issues do not make the world go round, however they are part of our world which should be civil and humane. There has to be a "middle" road.

It's incredibly disappointing when a national population fails to see the obvious. Consequently, there is a populous group who ultimately refuses to vote in the upcoming election because they won't accept mediocrity. When have we become a nation when "okay" is good enough. The worst part is that we're really not "okay." If the two primary options are horrible, then why are we investing so much time, energy, and money in them? Through it all, we've known the whole time it would come to this and once again did nothing about it.

Posted by MichaelMears at October 25, 2012 5:40 PM
Comments
Comment #355543

Green Bay WI is a Democrat stronghold; it will be interesting to see what effect the Catholic hierarchy will have in this area, since the race in WI is so close:

“Bishop David Ricken, the leader of the Catholic Diocese of Green Bay, noted in a recent letter to parishioners that voting for candidates who support what he calls “intrinsically evil” positions, such as abortion and gay marriage, could “put your own soul in jeopardy.”

Ricken’s letter, dated Oct. 24, notes that the church has a responsibility to “speak out regarding moral issues, especially on those issues that impact the ‘common good.’” It goes on to note principles to keep in mind in the voting booth on Nov. 6, including abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and gay marriage.”

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20121026/GPG010404/310260362/Bishop-urges-vote-against-candidates-who-support-abortion-gay-marriage?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Here is a copy of his letter:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/assets/pdf/U01963741026.PDF

Recent polling shows they are virtually tied, within margin of error. A month ago, almost all polls showed Obama with a 5-8 point lead. Add to this the fact that Walker won the recall election by a stunning 9 points; but all the polls prior to the recall election had them in a dead even tie. What we can take from this is that you can’t believe the polls in WI. They are skewed Democrat. Add to this the fact that the Pro-Obama Super Pac pulled their ads in WI and FL in this month. Of course FL is already lost to Obama.


For these reasons, I believe WI is lost to Obama.

Posted by: TomT at October 27, 2012 8:10 AM
Comment #355546

I was born and grew up in Wisconsin. I would be very pleased if my native state would be the margin of victory for Mitt Romney.

Posted by: C&J at October 27, 2012 9:27 AM
Comment #355551

My dad spent time in northern Wisconsin when he was a teenager. My grandfather moved there from Kentucky and was a logger. I remember my dad cutting trees for firewood with a crosscut, they certainly were tough men. We used to go there in the summers for vacation. Up state in Goodman, WI; about 30 miles south of Iron Mountain, MI. When my dad retired, he moved up there; I used to take my son up for hunting, fishing, and snowmobiling. Great country, a lot of Germans and Polish people. I would always bring a few gallons of Maple Syrup and Cheese home. The people were probably some of the best I ever met.

Posted by: TomT at October 27, 2012 12:35 PM
Comment #355561

The Romney campaign is in trouble, and they know it. That is why they are campaigning in WI. Both Obama and Biden are now appearing in WI at the same time as Romney & Ryan. Why?

OH is out of reach. The latest polls show Obama +4. CNN calls OH a “tie” because +4 means it is within a polls margin of error, however, that is fundamentally dishonest. It could just as easily be +8 Obama, by that logic. In fact, other polls keep showing the same result. If the saturation advertising and multiple personal appearances haven’t done it by now for Romney, it’s time to concede the statement and look elsewhere for electoral votes.

WI shows Obama up +2 or +3. Yes, that is within the margin of error. No, it doesn’t meant it’s a tie. Other polls show the same results, a small margin for Obama. Unlike OH, WI has not had its airwaves saturated with advertising (or so I’ve read) and personal appearances.

If Romney and Ryan are committing time & resources to WI at this point, it’s a sign of desperation.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2012 4:59 PM
Comment #355563

Phx8

We will know soon. But all I have to say to our Democratic friends is that they should go ahead and consider the election in the bag. Don’t bother to go out to vote. In Wisconsin, it is likely to be kind of cold, maybe that cold drizzle, better just stay home, watch some day time TV, maybe buy a lottery ticket, since this will be a lucky day.

Posted by: C&J at October 27, 2012 5:27 PM
Comment #355564

Oregon is vote by mail.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2012 6:03 PM
Comment #355565

The whole northeast corridor will be under the influence of rain, snow, and wind from hurricane Sandy. NYC, Phili, DC; the usual liberal strongholds. Will the libs show up to vote?

Posted by: Frank at October 27, 2012 6:26 PM
Comment #355566

Frank

Let’s hope there is little damage, but lets also hope that the adverse weather conditions persist through election day to dampen Democrat enthusiasm.

Posted by: C&J at October 27, 2012 7:42 PM
Comment #355569

Most recent poll for VA from WaPo: Obama +4
PPP poll for VA from yesterday: Obama +5

I’ll say it for the hundredth time, this won’t be as close as some people think.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2012 8:04 PM
Comment #355570

Nothing like quoteing a Biased Democrat poll is there phx8. What’s the matter the rest show Obama down or tied?

Posted by: KAP at October 27, 2012 8:18 PM
Comment #355571

Phx8

Election is only days away. We look at similar information and come to different conclusions.

Both of us think our side will win. Polls consistently underestimate Republican strength. As a conservative, I often feel the pressure. In recent weeks, I have been in groups where someone announces that we all hope that Obama will win. When I stand up and say that not all of us want that, I am surprised at the numbers of people who come to me later and thank me for speaking for them.

It is hard for people. Conservatives feel social pressure not to admit that they will vote against a cool black man like Obama. But in the voting booth, nobody is there with you. At that point, they make the right choices.

Anyway, nobody knows now. I think that if current trends continue, Romney wins. He is looking much more presidential than Obama, whose petty sniping appeals to you guys but nobody else.

I think that it will break big for Romney. Virginia will belong to Romney, probably Wisconsin too. I think there is a chance we will even take Pennsylvania.

This is an election where the debates made a difference. Americans saw Romney and Obama and they changed their minds. All the money spend and it still has come down to judgements about two men.

If Obama wins, he will be my presidents and I will congratulate you. I think, however, that there is a higher probability that Romney will win and you will be congratulating us. Either way, the best man will have won.

Posted by: C&J at October 27, 2012 8:33 PM
Comment #355574

I love the conciliatory note that is being struck here today. I don’t come here too often anymore because it’s just got to hatefull. Maybe that will change.

Posted by: Jeff at October 27, 2012 9:21 PM
Comment #355575

KAP,
Obama led in VA for most of this election cycle. Recently, Romney seemed to move into a tie. The polls I quoted are the most recent, up-to-date info available. It’s easy to dismiss one poll. But two?

C&J,
Why would polls underestimate conservative strength? Pollsters go to great lengths to develop accurate models. Yet even with a wealth of information, there will still be a statistical margin of error, and every once in a while, a true outlier.

There are two difficult areas to assess: 1) who will show up to vote (LV v RV), and 2) how representative is the sample. For the second matter, Gallup has received criticism for not including cell phones. About 25% of all phone owners have only cell phones and no land lines; they are younger, and they are more likely to vote Democratic. And seriously, who would answer on a land line from a blocked number? Or a caller id from a polling company?

Rasmussen comes under criticism because its model seems to be off. They consistently lean 3.8% towards the GOP, a bias confirmed by comparison with other polling groups.

It appears the first debate gave Romney a bounce. Americans saw a completely different person from the one who ran in the GOP primaries because Romney lied through his teeth. I’ve never seen a candidate do this on such a scale, sometimes reversing himself on the same day. It’s awful.

If the unlikely event he wins, his lies will cripple his presidency from Day One. And that is a self-inflicted wound. No one else caused this. Romney has created this problem for himself. If he wins, Romney will bring down disaster on his own head. You know what they say about the nature of karma.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2012 9:34 PM
Comment #355578

phx8

They try, but they fail. Rasmussen has been the best in making predictions. It doesn’t matter what other polls say; all that matters is what the people say on November 6.

Recall that the polls told us that the Carter-Reagan race would be close and most had Carter ahead.

In any case, we will soon know.

re lying - Factcheck found that both candidates interpreted the truth liberally. Obama has been tell more … less than truth statements if you look at the fact checks.

Re Karma - I don’t believe in that superstition. W/o speaking about Romney or Obama, it is unfortunately true that there is often no balance of good with bad, at least not on this earth.

I think Romney is a moderate and he is now emphasizing that. I don’t really care what he said before; I care about what he will do in the future. If he is trimming his ideas to get the approval of the American people, I don’t really think that is a bad things. After all, he should do what the American people wants in many cases.

Posted by: C&J at October 27, 2012 10:22 PM
Comment #355579

Karma is not a superstition; in western terms, karma is simply cause and effect.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2012 10:26 PM
Comment #355580

phx8, I’ll stick with Gallup or Rasmussen besides PPP is known to be more democrat in their polling never heard of the other.

Posted by: KAP at October 27, 2012 11:05 PM
Comment #355581

KAP,
WaPo = ABC/Washington Post
PPP is the Daily Kos polling organization. Generally, it’s a pretty good poll. Some polls exist to provide information. PPP, ABC/Wapo, and most of the majors fulfill that function. Others push a narrative. They are essentially instruments of propaganda.Both Gallup and Rasmussen are legitimate pollsters. They are questioned because of their methods, their models; but at least both are consistent in the way they apply them. Rasmussen consistently leans towards the GOP by 3.8%. Since Real Clear Polling averages polls, Rasmussen affects RCP by just over one percent.

Personally, I dislike tracking polls, such as the Gallup tracking poll, that use seven-day averages. I just don’t think that information is very useful.

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 1:31 AM
Comment #355582

phx8

In this case, then, the use of karma is not a good analogy. Romney has pivoted to the more moderate position and can stay there w/o much trouble. He has seized some middle ground and will keep it.

Re polls - let’s see the results of the big poll on November 6 and judge the veracity based only on that one.

Posted by: C&J at October 28, 2012 7:47 AM
Comment #355584

“Gallup: Obama’s Job Approval Drops 7 Points in 3 Days”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-obamas-job-approval-drops-7-points-3-days

This says it all…

Posted by: Frank at October 28, 2012 9:04 AM
Comment #355586

C&J,
There’s nothing out of the ordinary about a candidate running for the party nomination by appealing to the base, then moving towards the middle for the general election. That is a pivot.

But Romney is not just pivoting. He’s not accentuating one part of his platform and de-emphasizing another. He is lying. He is flat-out contradicting what he said earlier in the year. He lies on a weekly and almost daily basis, depending on the crowd. It’s horrible.

And that’s what I meant about karma. There are consequences, the direct results of cause and effect, that come to fruition. If Romney somehow wins, he will be crippled from Day One by all those lies.

Frank,
You unintentionally prove my point about tracking polls like the Gallup poll. Thank you.

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 10:37 AM
Comment #355589

Some people don’t view it as “telling a woman what to do with her body;” rather, they view it as protecting unborn human life.

And I have to disagree that social issues should be of primary focus right now instead of the economy. Sorry, but if the economy is bad, people will suffer regardless of what the law is regarding social issues. Whether abortion is legal or not, the better the economy, the better life will be for all, including the unborn.

Posted by: Jacquelyn F. Gerlach at October 28, 2012 12:34 PM
Comment #355590

phx8 said,

“KAP,
WaPo = ABC/Washington Post
PPP is the Daily Kos polling organization. Generally, it’s a pretty good poll. Some polls exist to provide information. PPP, ABC/Wapo, and most of the majors fulfill that function. Others push a narrative. They are essentially instruments of propaganda.Both Gallup and Rasmussen are legitimate pollsters. They are questioned because of their methods, their models; but at least both are consistent in the way they apply them. Rasmussen consistently leans towards the GOP by 3.8%. Since Real Clear Polling averages polls, Rasmussen affects RCP by just over one percent.

Personally, I dislike tracking polls, such as the Gallup tracking poll, that use seven-day averages. I just don’t think that information is very useful.”

Then he said;

“Frank,
You unintentionally prove my point about tracking polls like the Gallup poll. Thank you.”

I love it; trash all the polls that tell the truh about Obama’s demise; but quote the polls that are from the DailyKos and a democrat run PPP. Go figure…

Posted by: rank at October 28, 2012 1:16 PM
Comment #355592

Frank,
It has nothing to do with whether Obama rose or fell in the Gallup poll. It has everything to do with a large swing caused solely by the nature of a seven-day rolling average. It gives the impression of a major development, when in fact, no such thing happened. A big up day from one week ago was replaced by adding a more ordinary one. A more useful thing to know would be what voters thought on a single day, a snap poll, or over two or three days.

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 1:28 PM
Comment #355593

phx8, I will try to explain something to you that Adam Ducker has been able to comprehend; there is no “swing caused solely by the nature of a seven-day rolling average”. The polls have always been in favor of Romney or have been a dead even tie. The liberal polls have tried to show Obama ahead and it was a manufactured lie. When the polls showed Obama ahead by 8-10 points a month ago, it was a lie. It was meant to encourage the left, discourage the conservatives, and get Obama elected. The left wants to think everything changed after the first debate, but it didn’t. In order for any of the polling companies to have any credibility, they had to shift toward the truth and the truth is that Romney was either ahead or tied with Obama. I have pointed out the fact, on several occasions, that the Suffolk University Polls (accurate) posted 3 weeks ago that Romney had VA, NC, and FL and that they were pulling their polling out of these states because Obama cannot close the gap. By the way, Suffolk U Polls are out of Boston, MA and are very liberal, but the truth is the truth. Over the next week you will see the polls tighten even more; but on Election Day, when Romney wins, all the polls will be shocked at the “unexpected” victory of Romney. Sorry, but that’s the facts.

You guys on the left cannot seem to get your poll facts together. Some of you say snap polls are good, some say 7 day polls are good; but all on the left discard any polls showing Romney ahead.

I will stick to Suffolk U. and Rasmussen; they seem to be the most accurate, with the best record. But the final poll will be a week from Tuesday.

Posted by: rank at October 28, 2012 1:49 PM
Comment #355594

Correction; “Adam Ducker has not been able to comprehend”

Posted by: Frank at October 28, 2012 1:51 PM
Comment #355595

Jacquelyn,
So you’re ok being paid less than a man for equivalent work? And if that happened in the past, that is ok too. Let bygones be byones? Because the economy matters more than your rights?

Do you know what an ectopic pregnancy is? Do the rights of the unborn, enshrined in the Republican platform, in personhood amendments supported by the likes of Paul Ryan, and promoted by many Republicans, including 12 Senators running this election- do those rights justify the death of the mother? Because that is where Republicans are going with those personhood amendments- which Romney said he would gladly sign, by the way-

Oh, wait. The economy is more important for you. Are you sure? About 600 women a year die from complications during pregnancy. If it were your own life threatened by an ectopic pregnancy, would you still feel the economy is more important than your own right to live?

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 2:02 PM
Comment #355596

“About 600 women a year die from complications during pregnancy.” phx8

“More than 2,800 people die each year from choking; many of them are children. That would be about 7 or 8 people a day.”

Should we do away with food?

“More than 100 people choke to death on ball point pens each year”

Should we do away with ball poin pens?

“It is estimated that betwee 170 and 180 people die each year from choking on popcorn”.

Should we do away with popcorn?

Posted by: TomT at October 28, 2012 4:01 PM
Comment #355597

Jacquelyn,
As a woman, I’m sure you can appreciate the previous comment by TomT. A pregnancy that threatens the life of a woman is simply an inevitable part of modern day life, not a preventable medical condiditon. Sadly, a woman with an ectopic pregnancy must die- it is as inevitable as choking on popcorn. Too bad. The important thing is to protect the rights of a blastocyst.

And that means no Pill. No IUD. No In-Vitro Fertilization. But since you’re a woman, none of that is important, not really. Might as well talk about legislating ball point pens, for heaven’s sake! What matters is the economy.

That means no whining about equal pay for equal work, and especially no whining about violence against women.

Popcorn!

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 4:53 PM
Comment #355599

Frank,
The lying media is reporting that the lying Ipsos/Reuters polls shows Obama +3. You can tell they are lying because Obama is ahead. In another example of the lying media reporting a poll done by liars, Obama is up +2 in NH, with an 18 point lead among women. Hey, Frank, maybe C&J will join your conspiracy theory. Isn’t it amazing how all those people from all those different organizations can conspire together without one single person blowing the whistle?

Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2012 6:13 PM
Comment #355600

True moderation is not an admixture of the extremes of left and right. True moderation is letting the facts constrain you.

Nothing in Romney’s budgeting is constrained by realistic budget necessities. Nobody’s been able to take Arthur Laffer’s promised growth and promised increase of revenues and make it happen. Note also that Bush’s deficit, post 1986 legislation, did not go away, but increased until the beginning of the Obama administration. He tried the whole “close loopholes and reduce deductions” bit.

This is about exploiting people’s greed.

Add to that a radical change in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, which Americans overwhelmingly support, and the substance of Mitt Romney’s plans becomes clearly radical, and clearly not what most people wants. He can coat it in happy talk one way, and fearmongering about fiscal problems ahead another way, but what he’s saying makes his proposal necessary actually only makes a proposal necessary, not merely his.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 28, 2012 6:56 PM
Comment #355601

I can’t believe you would start your comments with the word “facts”. Since when did you ever let facts get in the way of your socialist ideologies?

“Nothing in Romney’s budgeting is constrained by realistic budget necessities.”

Pray tell us Stephen; when was the last time Obama or Harry Reid passed a budget? Stephen, you don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to budgets. Why hasn’t Harry Reid brought a budget to the floor of the Senate? He didn’t even do it when the dems controlled the whole Congress.

“Add to that a radical change in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, which Americans overwhelmingly support, and the substance of Mitt Romney’s plans becomes clearly radical, and clearly not what most people wants.”

These only radical changes come in the form of Obamacare and the American people have overwhelmingly rejected that. Think back Stephen, to the 2010 elections; the democrats got their asses whipped because they supported Obamacare and the outrage is not over. You will see next week what the American people are furious about.

So you try to slip back in here with more dumbass statements, way to go Stephen; you never disappoint us with your abilities.

Posted by: Frank at October 28, 2012 7:39 PM
Comment #355602

phx8; “Hey, Frank, maybe C&J will join your conspiracy theory. Isn’t it amazing how all those people from all those different organizations can conspire together without one single person blowing the whistle?”

No more amazing than listening to the Obama apologists on WB throw any honor they may have to the wind in order to defend a man who has done nothing right for 4 years.

Posted by: Frank at October 28, 2012 7:41 PM
Comment #356175

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