Third Party & Independents Archives

Where did the anti-war Democrats go?

In 2005, the 2,000th serviceman died in Iraq and the media was there to tell us.  Vigils were setup all across the United States to protest the deaths.  It was controversial to discuss the dead coming home, the left was outraged, demanding to film the caskets as they rolled off of the airplanes.  Yes, this past month the 2,000th serviceman died in Afghanistan, 1,500 of them since President Obama took office, and there was barely a mention of it in the news and no protests visible from the progressive websites that were once filled with outrage over an ‘endless war’.  Where did those Democrats and Progressives go?

Simply stated, a president of their party was elected and war is good now.  Not just Afghanistan, no, wars in Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan and Libya, all good things for the country!  Of course, this is the exact opposite opinion he expressed while running for office and getting praise from the progressives in his party for his anti-war views.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, the Boston Globe asked Obama about the president’s constitutional authority to use military force without congressional approval in "a situation that does not involve stopping an imminent threat." Obama, a Harvard-trained lawyer who opposed the Iraq war, told the Globe in a candidate Q&A that was published Dec. 20, 2007, that the president has no such authority unless there is "an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

Question: In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites — a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)

Obama: The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

However, when President Obama attacked Libya, he did so without any actual or imminent threat to the nation.  He did not seek approval from congress as he is constitutionally required to do so.  He has since expanded the 'War on Terror' to Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan, that we know of.  The result of these actions are the deaths of innocent civilians as they have been accomplished using drones.

I often wonder what the people who once stood for peace within the Democratic Party are thinking.  Do they still feel the same way, disgusted by the president from their own party being more of a warmonger than the one he replaced, but not willing to say anything so that they can keep control of the White House?  Or was their original peaceful views simply not legitimate but rather a way to attack a president of an opposing party?  Or did they have a change of heart?

Unfortunately I haven't heard a good response from one about the support of the President in this case.  Usually I get a deflection when I ask what has happened.  I am not at all expecting to get any either, after all, being grounded by an overriding principle is not something that progressives seem terribly keen on doing.

Posted by Rhinehold at September 13, 2012 3:53 PM
Comment #352858

“I often wonder what the people who once stood for peace within the Democratic Party are thinking.”

I wonder as well. I also wonder why they have abandoned God and Israel. We have liberals over on the dem blog railing about a movie causing terrorists to attack our embassies. These same lefties would curtail our freedom of speech to appease terrorists.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 13, 2012 4:35 PM
Comment #352862

It has always been about Party, not country.

Posted by: kctim at September 13, 2012 5:28 PM
Comment #352885

Indeed kctim, you will also not hear a peep about his appalling reactions to the recent death of Ambassador Stevens, Sean Smith, Glen Doherty and more, as Obama treats the incident like that imbecile conservative (forget his name) who recently blamed rape victims for wearing attractive clothing.

Obama can do whatever he wants because he’s black and if you don’t like what he does, you’re a bigot. Rewind. Repeat.

Ergo, I’m a bigot. lol.

Posted by: Yukon Jake at September 13, 2012 9:17 PM
Comment #352898

There have been no combat deaths or injuries to Americans in Libya or the various other countries you mention. While I share your concern about possible abuse of the War Powers Act, those examples do not rise to the occasion.

Obama did not start Afghanistan. He did not withdraw troops and resources after invading in order to prosecute another war. He did not lie about why we should be in Afghanistan, as compared with the lies surrounding the War in Iraq. He’s made it clear there is an exit strategy and an intention to withdraw in 2014. And, because of the US presence in Afghanistan, the US was able to launch a raid into Pakistan and kill Bin Laden. Numerous other members of Al Qaida have also been eliminated.

Would I like to see the US withdraw from Afghanistan? Yes. That is also true for the overwhelming majority of the American public. In the meantime, Obama has shown good judgment with foreign policy and the elimination of terrorists. Personally, I doubt the ability of any American administration to change the culture of Afghanistan without an enormous investment, and that opportunity went out the window a decade ago.

So, Rhinehold, more polls out, and in a wondrous coincidence, Rasmussen polls show a consistent 4 point GOP bias compared with other polling organizations. Would you like me to post the examples, or will you simply agree Rasmussen shows a consistent GOP bias?

Posted by: phx8 at September 13, 2012 11:15 PM
Comment #353056
There have been no combat deaths or injuries to Americans in Libya or the various other countries you mention.

You mean US deaths. There have been deaths of those we have killed, including many innocent civilians. I suppose if you think that is a-ok, then we can just bomb the fuck out of anyone we want as long as we sit back and it doesn’t kill Americans.

While I share your concern about possible abuse of the War Powers Act, those examples do not rise to the occasion.

Actually, they do. Look at Obama’s quote again. It was in response to BOMBING Iran. It had nothing to do with sending troops in anywhere. Any Military Action that is not an imminent threat to the US requires congressional approval. Period. End of Story. Obama has been violating the constitution in this regard nearly the whole time he has been in office. And the left, save a few principled brave few (like Glen Greenwald), have even opined about it.

Obama did not start Afghanistan.

No, he didn’t. But the minute he took office, what happens there is his responsibility. I know the progressive mindset is to not take responsibility for anything, but the facts are the facts.

He did not withdraw troops and resources after invading in order to prosecute another war.


He’s made it clear there is an exit strategy and an intention to withdraw in 2014.

No, sorry but you haven’t actually read that announcement correctly, have you?

For all the fanfare around President Barack Obama’s speech on Tuesday declaring the war in Afghanistan over, at least one Democratic lawmaker isn’t convinced that U.S. forces are actually leaving the country. Maybe ever.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said Wednesday that the strategic partnership agreement signed Tuesday by Obama and Afghan President Hamid Karzai commits the United States — its troops and potentially tens of billions more dollars — to Afghanistan for the indefinite future.

“The plain fact is we are not exiting Afghanistan, despite the appearances which the White House is trying to create,” Kucinich said in a statement. “We are staying.”

The facts are that we accomplished our original mission over a decade ago, we have been ‘nation building’ for the rest of that time, which we shouldn’t be doing and the left ‘likes’ this war because they want to appear tough on terror, when actually all they have done is lie about the reasons we are there and keep pumping men and money into the region for no discernable reason whatsoever. Please, tell me what our mission is there again?

Numerous other members of Al Qaida have also been eliminated.

They have been for years. When Obama took office there were less than two dozen members of al Qaida in Afghanistan, how many exactly did he kill, and was it worth 1500 US men?

In the meantime, Obama has shown good judgment with foreign policy and the elimination of terrorists.


Personally, I doubt the ability of any American administration to change the culture of Afghanistan without an enormous investment, and that opportunity went out the window a decade ago.

It was never there, but we have spent an enormous investment, 2000 US servicemen’s lives and 443 BILLION dollars. And we are getting little, if anything, out of it. And we aren’t leaving anytime soon either. Especially knowing that Obama tried to reneg on the Iraq agreement between Bush and Iraq but was unable to make it happen to keep more troops in Iraq (they aren’t all gone, you know).

Rasmussen polls show a consistent 4 point GOP bias compared with other polling organizations.

Here is the polling data that I have seen:

CBS News/NY Times 9/8 - 9/12 1162 LV 3.0 49 46 Obama +3
Gallup (Friday) 9/11 - 9/13 1500 LV 3.0 45 48 Romney +3
Democracy Corps (D) 9/8 - 9/12 1000 LV 3.1 50 45 Obama +5
FOX News 9/9 - 9/11 1056 LV 3.0 48 43 Obama +5
Gallup (Thursday) 9/6 - 9/12 3050 RV 2.0 50 44 Obama +6
Esquire/Yahoo! News 9/7 - 9/10 724 LV 5.0 50 46 Obama +4
Reuters/Ipsos 9/7 - 9/10 873 LV 3.4 48 45 Obama +3
ABC News/Wash Post 9/7 - 9/9 710 LV 4.5 49 48 Obama +1
CNN/Opinion Research 9/7 - 9/9 709 LV 3.5 52 46 Obama +6
IBD/CSM/TIPP 9/4 - 9/9 808 RV 3.5 46 44 Obama +2
CNN/Opinion Research 8/31 - 9/3 735 LV 3.5 48 48 Tie
Democracy Corps (D) 8/23 - 8/27 1000 LV 3.1 49 47 Obama +2
CBS News 8/22 - 8/26 1051 RV 3.0 46 45 Obama +1
ABC News/Wash Post 8/22 - 8/25 857 RV 4.0 46 47 Romney +1
CNN/Opinion Research 8/22 - 8/23 719 LV 3.5 49 47 Obama +2
FOX News 8/19 - 8/21 1007 LV 3.0 44 45 Romney +1
Resurgent Republic (R) 8/16 - 8/22 1000 LV 3.1 46 45 Obama +1
Associated Press/GfK 8/16 - 8/20 885 RV 4.1 47 46 Obama +1
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 8/16 - 8/20 1000 RV 3.1 48 44 Obama +4
Monmouth/SurveyUSA/Braun 8/15 - 8/19 1149 LV 2.9 46 45 Obama +1
LA Times/USC 8/13 - 8/19 954 LV 3.2 48 46 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 8/8 - 8/10 1500 LV 3.0 44 46 Romney +2

I don’t think Rasmussen has been very out of line at all. Well within margains of error, it depends upon the questions asked and how they are asked, etc. There is a lot that goes into polling, not just ‘skewing the results to fit the narrative’ as you are suggesting. The fact is that the methods that Rasmussen uses usually leads to it being the most accurate, perhaps some of the other polling companies are skewing theirs democratic? With the exception of 2010 where they had a few missteps, they have been most accurate when compared to actual results, even Nate Silver had to admit that, and he’s the one who has been attacking Rasmussen…

BTW, you notice the only poll that includes 9/13 has Romney up by 3… Do you think that people are reacting to the embassy attacks?

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 14, 2012 9:19 AM
Comment #353065

First, not all of us are pacifists. We objected to Iraq not on general grounds that peace was always preferable, but on specific grounds that the causus belli was false, and the execution of the war so shoddy as to defeat its original purpose, that of creating a viable Democracy in Iraq.

Second, I think you’re missing what a lot of polls are telling you, especially in regards to the difference between Likely Voter (LV), and Registered Voter (RV) numbers. Note that Obama is six ahead in that RV Gallup poll, and then 3 behind in that LV poll. (He’s actually ahead in the latest tracking poll numbers)

You should take a look at the latest CNN/ORC poll, in particular at numbers talking about whether they are voting for Obama or Romney to vote for the candidate, or against their competitors. With Obama, there was an almost three quarters majority that was voting for Obama, rather than merely against Romney. Romney Voters, though, are split on the matter almost evenly.

I think what’s going to lead Obama to win, in the end, is that Republicans never had the solid sort of blame they actually thought they did. They could say that Obama failed, but not that he didn’t try, or that he actually caused the downturn, something only 34% of people actually believed in one poll. Vague opposition, driven with intense emotion is enough to drive some people away from Obama, but it’s not as strong a motivation for people to vote for Romney, and in an election, both sides are important.

Meanwhile, Democrats have defined Romney in a way that ties him uncomfortably closely to the kind of Wall Street Bankers and Chainsaw Al impersonators who people have grown to hate over the last decade, while at the same time fielding a charismatic figure who could appeal to people about his policies on their own merits, and who seems to have far more emotional intelligence than Romney.

I think Republicans are going to pay for being so hasty to get back on top. The put their trust in a party of people who they could rile up intense turnout in the short term, but who long term are embarrassing the party, and making it look out of the mainstream. They should have rebuilt their party, moderated it, and taken their time so people could forget over time. Unfortunately, they feared, perhaps rightly, that Obama would change things quickly, undermine that they’d spent decades creating.

What they should have realized is that while you can be far more flexible and over the top in hitting people for what you say they will do, there’s much more strength in hinging your approach on a reality, providing some emotional depth. Republicans traded the opportunity to attack the president on substance for the necessity in their eyes, to attack from a position of ideological purity. the unfortunate result for them is that they’re chasing that purity, but forgetting about what people really want out of the government.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 14, 2012 11:25 AM
Comment #353067
First, not all of us are pacifists. We objected to Iraq not on general grounds that peace was always preferable, but on specific grounds that the causus belli was false, and the execution of the war so shoddy as to defeat its original purpose, that of creating a viable Democracy in Iraq.

Nothing to do with pacifism, everything to do with consistency. Peace in Iraq was preferable to what, the dictatorial rule, the rape rooms, the long history of state sponsored terrorism, the sanctioned conditions that saw millions of children die, etc? The conditions in Iraq were worse than those in Libya, but you liked that war…

The initial war was successful, it was the staying around and nationbuilding that got the US in trouble, you know, just like Libya and Afghanistan… It’s about consistency and you can’t support the other wars and not like that one, it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

The rest of your comment is piffle, I follow the polling and watch the race, but IMO it doesn’t really matter if Obama or Romney win, the result will be the same, as I’ve already detailed here several times.

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 14, 2012 11:41 AM
Comment #353081

All I need to know about O is summed up in the unkept promises he made 4 yrs ago. From open meetings, to no more lobbyists, to bringing troops home. There must be about a dozen or more of them. He’s a phoney. His glib tongue and cocky demeanor have people like phx8 hoodwinked. Not me.

Posted by: John Johnson at September 14, 2012 5:02 PM
Comment #353115

John it seems to me you have yourself hoodwinked. You really don’t seem to need help as you spout nothing but conservative talking points. Which as we all know are misinformation half truths and outright lies. You guys cheer Romney as if he had a clue, which in turn tells us you don’t have a clue.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 15, 2012 1:01 AM
Comment #353133

j2t2, it’s not “conservative talking points” when Obama has a record of lies. There have been numerous times the list of Obama lies has been posted on WB. By the way, your side ignores the list.

Re/the lefts infatuation with bump polls; John is correct about the Rasmussen polls, but as we approach the last 2 weeks of the pre-election days, we will begin to see correct polls coming out. Right now the MSM is trying to get Obama reelected; but as the last couple of weeks arrive we will see the scrambling for relevancy. Meaning, they want to be able to say how close they were to predicting the winner, until then I don’t believe a thing they say. If Obama cannot get better than 50%, he has no chance of winning, and so far he hasn’t. The better polls to look at right now are what the voters think of the economy, jobs (or lack of), the government’s involvement in our lives, or State Senatorial and Gubernatorial elections. No attention should be paid to Stephen Daugherty’s concept of the polls, because Stephen does not have the ability to look at anything objectively. He is a male version of Adrienne; at least I think he’s a male version.

Posted by: Frank at September 15, 2012 5:07 PM
Comment #353134

Let’s list them again:

“Lies During Fourth Year

Romney and Ryan will gut pell grants for low-income college students.

My budget will cut the deficit by $4 Trillion over 10 years.

“I am told that Governor Romney’s new running mate, Paul Ryan, might be around Iowa the next few days,” he said while in Council Bluffs, Iowa. “He is one of the leaders of Congress standing in the way. So if you happen to see Congressman Ryan, tell him how important this farm bill is to Iowa and our rural communities.”
House passed bill on August 2, 2012 (Paul Ryan voted yes)

The American automobile industry has come roaring back…So now I want to say what we did with the auto industry, we can do it in manufacturing across America. Let’s make sure advanced, high-tech manufacturing jobs take root here, not in China. And that means supporting investment here. Governor Romney … invested in companies that were called ‘pioneers’ of outsourcing. I don’t want to outsource. I want to insource.
Forbes- Outsourcer-In-Chief: Obama Of General Motors

“You Didn’t Build that”
A few examples

Lies During Third Year

I will walk on that picket line with you, if workers are denied the right to bargain.

In his 2012 State of the Union Address, President Obama said that American oil production is the highest that it’s been in eight years.

I’ve done more for Israel’s security than any President ever
Obama aided Islamic Extremists take over of Egypt/ Libya – Weapons pour into Gaza

Virtually every Senate Republican voted against the tax cut last week

“Every idea that we’ve put forward are ones that traditionally have been supported by Democrats and Republicans alike.”
Like Raising taxes?

Obama met highly qualified out of work teacher Robert Baroz
He wasn’t out of work and Obama never met him.

GOP Responsible for Obama Jobs Bill Not Passing
Dems Rejected Jobs Bill

You have 80 percent of the American people who support a balanced approach. Eighty percent of the American people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. So the notion that somehow the American people aren’t sold is not the problem
Gallup Poll: Only 69%

These are obligations that the United States has taken on in the past. Congress has run up the credit card, and we now have an obligation to pay our bills.
Looks like it’s been incurred mostly in the years of Obama

Jobs Bill Paid for
Seems not so much Paid for

Then you’ve got their(GOP)which is dirtier air, dirtier water, less people with health insurance
Barack Obama, campaiging in Asheville, NC, 10/17/11

I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.

USA producing more oil than ever before
Petroleum Insights

Fence between US and Mexico is “Practically Complete”
Department of Homeland Security says 5%

Rich doesn’t pay their fair share.
National Taxpayers Union

Mitt Romney would deny gay people the right to adopt children.
Cnn Interview

Lies During Second Year

Obama claimed the SCOTUS decision in Citizens United v. FEC, “open[ed] the floodgates for special interests — including foreign corporations — to spend without limit in our elections.

No signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law
Obama Lies to Keep Czars

No “boots” on the ground Libya
Anyone that has worked with the AC-130 gunship can tell you, you need spotters to let aircraft know where the targets are. Usually it is Special Forces, Rangers etc trained for this mission. It’s CIA Agents in Libya on the ground

Reform will also rein in the abuse and excess that nearly brought down our financial system. It will finally bring transparency to the kinds of complex, risky transactions that helped trigger the financial crisis.
Obama Lies About Financial Reform Bill

All Americans WILL BE were, “surprised, disappointed and angry” about lockerbie bomber
Obama Memo

I will not rest until the BP Oil Spill stops
Obama’s Schedule

The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime.
Campaign and Presidency

If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it

“Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.”
U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., September 9, 2009.

ObamaCare Fee is not a new tax
Obama denies healthcare is a new tax on all Americans

We have run out of places in the US to drill for oil.
Obama’s oval office speech in June 2010

Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.
Arizona Immigration Law

Doctors choose amputation because they get better compensation. Greedy Doctors taking out tonsils for more money.
Claims never documented

The Health Care Package will pay for itself

Republicans don’t have a single idea that’s different from George Bush’s ideas — not one.
Hmm Immigration?

We shouldn’t Mandate the purchase of health care
Democratic Debate Lies

Obama says he’ll save average family $8,000 in gas
Video Proof

I am immediately instituting PayGo “Pay as you go”
Said during a speech immediately after the Trillion Dollar “Shovel Ready” bill.

I got the Message from Massachusetts
Daily Bail

Lies During First Year

We began by passing a Recovery Act that has already saved or created over 150,000 jobs.” – caught cooking the books and now changed to ‘jobs supported’ versus ‘created/saved’
AP fact Checker

Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. … That wasn’t me.” – Congress, under Democratic control in 2007 and 2008, controlled the purse strings that led to the deficit Obama inherited.Obama supported the emergency bailout package in Bush’s final months — a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger.
AP fact Checker

Collective salvation
Obama calls himself a Christian

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Obama Inauguration. 20 Jan 2009

Cut Deficit in Half by end of first term
Associated Press Video

Health Care deals will be covered on C-span
Obama Lies

As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide

Recovery Act will save or create jobs
ABC News

Unemployment rate will be 8.5% without stimulus.
Obama Lies

No Earmarks in the $787 Billion Stimulus

I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan

We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages.
Obama Lies

I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage.

Guantanamo bay to be closed within a year
Council on Foreign Relations.

Won’t Raise taxes on those making less than 250,000 per year.
Businessweek: Obama Agnostic on taxes
List of Tax Promise Violations

2008 Campaign Lies

I will walk the picket line with you, if workers are denied the right to bargain

No more wiretapping of citizens

Mr. Ayers as “a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” but “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.
News Busters

I had a uncle who was one of the, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

Obama campaign would accept public funding

Minimum Wage will increase to $9.50/hr
A Socialist

Ann Dunham spent the months before her death in 1995 fighting with insurance companies that sought to deny her the coverage she needed to pay for treatment.
Mounting Heath Care Lies

Didn’t know Jeremiah Wright was Radical
Dreams of My Father – A radical Socialist.

Would have the most transparent administration in History
Cato Institute

We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way.
Boston Globe

I have visited all 57 states.

I’ll get rid of earmarks
Source: Any bill passed during presidency

When a bill lands on my Desk, The American people will have 5 days to review it before I sign it.
Campaign Speech

My father served in World War II.
The Videos and the Facts

Have troops out of Iraq by March 31, 2009
News Video

Seniors Making less than 50,000 will not have to pay taxes

Would not vote for any bill supporting troop funding without a firm withdrawal commitment from the Bush Administration.
He has done nothing but continue the Bush admins strategy and to explain how the “surges total failure” has now become his greatest achievement.

Present Votes Are Common In Illinois

I Won Michigan
Huffington Post

I won Nevada
The Nation

I don’t Have Lobbyists
US News

My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad
Crooks and Liars

I Have Always Been Against Iraq
Washington Post

My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country

Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.
Obama Campaign Video

I Barely Know Rezko
Sun Times

My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church
ABC News”

Posted by: Frank at September 15, 2012 5:15 PM
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