Third Party & Independents Archives

The Catch 22 of Two Evils

There’s an ideology of conservatives that evil cannot be changed, therefore should not be handled offensively. For example, Suddam Hussein and Bin Laden were evil people, who would never change and not inflict evil in the world; therefore they should never be given lenience or spared for their behavior. Liberals typically like to leave these people alone, and hope for the best that they’ll become less evil one day. But now, Republicans and Democrats have become their own evil enemies, and according to conservative belief, evil cannot be changed.

With two evil parties in the upcoming election, how do you choose? How will it help this country, and the desperate situation we find ourselves in, to vote for a less evil political party? Then we're left dead in the water hoping that party will come around or get better. That's not a very pleasing solution. Rationality no longer exists in Washington and it's complete extremism.

The media is playing this debate out like a bad drama series, that we the audience are watching and trying to decide which side is less awful than the other. American opinions are completely manipulated by the drama series, and now somehow anyone who disagrees with both parties (because they're evil) is labeled or shamed as unpatriotic. To them, the centralists are nonconformists who are skeptical, naïve and uneducated whose opinions have no relevance.

In actuality, it's exactly the opposite. President Obama has a chronic case of verbal diarrhea and has no connection to the words coming out of his mouth, and Mitt Romney will say anything anyone wants to hear regardless of how many times he contradicts himself. The consequences of both are evil to America, and ultimately that is what's unpatriotic. After Obama's comments regarding small business owners, clearly this country is not going "forward" in the direction he's leading, and the country has been taken out of the hands of its people.

Posted by MichaelMears at July 20, 2012 6:06 PM
Comment #349033


Evil exists in this world and it is true that it cannot be eradicated. But if we recognize evil we can manage and control it. Nobody wanted to be lenient with Saddam etc. but sometimes you also cannot immediately eliminate them. The idea is to contain and if possible neutralize. Even bad guys do good and good guys do bad. Some good intentions produce bad results and the reverse.

Beyond that, we recognize that human nature is what it is. People have capacity for good and evil. It is a constant struggle for individuals and society to bring out the best and control the worst. That is why we need strong institutions that channel power and divide it, so that harm can be minimized and good improved.

RE the difference between Obama and Romney - In the great scheme of things, there is not that much difference and that is a good thing. It would be very bad if each election was really such a momentous choice. It would indicate a very unstable system if we lurched from extremes. Clinton and Bush became very good friends and that is a sign of political maturity. On the other hand, within our moderate American bounds there is a lot of difference. Obama believes more that government grants prosperity and the people should solicit government support. Romney believes more that government should help create conditions where the people build prosperity for themselves and that the government should solicit the support of the people.

They are both good men. You are not choosing between the lesser of the two evils, but you are making a choice for the future.

Posted by: C&J at July 21, 2012 12:49 PM
Comment #349045

Mostly agree but where C&J says “But if we recognize evil we can manage and control it”, I disagree bigtime.

The whole essence of gov’t, society, nation, etc comes down to managing and controlling it, IMO. The level to which we are ‘managed and controlled’ is subjective fer shure.

And, the ‘managing and controlling’ involves a host of players far beyond the President and Executive branch. Like C*J says, ” That is why we need strong institutions that channel power and divide it, so that harm can be minimized and good improved.” That’s why the Constitution divides up the power between the branches of gov’t and the people. Yes, the people. The Founders provided a way for the people to weigh in on reform of gov’t when, and if, gov’t lost it’s way by including Article V Convention in the Constitution.

But, as congress and the supreme court won’t allow the people access to Article V they are keeping the ‘managing and controlling’ within the gov’t, people denied.

So, do you think President O’bama or President Romney is going to go to the mat to have your constitutional right of AVC reinstated?

Highly likely, neither will secure the southern border as this is a great segway to pander for votes come election time. More important, keeping the border open is a great way to provide the Corpocracy cheap labor and keep pressure on the middle class re lowering wages to a point where the US can effectively compete in the global economy.

Highly likely, neither will work to implement REAL campaign finance reform. Both candidates have, or will, make the circuit thru Europe to collect campaign donations. With the citizens united ruling foreigners are eligible to drop their extra change into the donation coffers.

Likely they won’t work to abolish corporate personhood which was fraudently put into law in 1886, or work to repeal the 16th amendment which was fraudenly put into law around 1913.

And so on - - -

It’s clear, our problems go way beyond the position of President. We should, IMO, be working to stand up a 3rd party as a way of wrenching power from the entrenched Corpocracy.

But, it can’t be just any 3rd party. Otherwise, we would, in a relatively short period, have the same old entrenched Corpocracy in control of the ‘new’ party. It must be a 3rd party established in some rules that would prevent the party from being coopted by special interest. Through such a party we could work to remove the money influence in gov’t, abolish corporate personhood, implement REAL campaign finance reform and a flat tax and so on…

In the interim we can work to vote incumbents from office in large number, and support other reform orgs such as, www.reclaimdemocracy and

Rather than carry water for the duopoly/Corpocracy I would much rather cast a protest vote for a candidate with real potential such as Gary Johnson, or a Buddy Roemer or Ex-GAO Walker.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 21, 2012 5:22 PM
Comment #349047


The southern border is becoming less an issue. Mexicans are going home in greater numbers than they are coming here. Mexican birthrates are dropping like a stone. The wave of Hispanic immigration has crested and now will diminish. In fact, in a few years there will develop a shortage of Mexican workers in the U.S.

Posted by: C&J at July 21, 2012 6:52 PM
Comment #349050

The border is open to the ‘world’, not just Mexico. Should we test your supposition by waiting until ‘recovery’ to see if we get another 10M or crossing the border? Then, there are drugs, cartel folks and terrorists - - -

It is a high positive that birthrates are falling in some countries, notably Brazil. Seems as countries progress the people choose to have fewer children, basically replacing themselves, as a way to hold on to their new found wealth.

Ihis trend may represent the better side of globalising. I berate globalising a lot but if enacted/carried out in a more sensible way it wouldn’t be such a bitter pill. But, $16T, housing, welfare, education, outsourcing, jobs, corruption, ad infinitum, - - - I shall remain critical.

Still, the next president will not bring the necessary reform to the table. Nor will the president after the next one and so on … It is the entire ‘culture’ of ‘Corpocracy’ that must be changed and that can only be done thru a new 3rd party w/a diff pol att - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 21, 2012 8:13 PM
Comment #349068


BOTH Brazil and Mexico are below replacement rate. Demographic inertia will mean populations continue to grow for a few more years, but the big increases are in the past.

RE the southern border open to the world, we can say the same of the northern border. But most of the illegal aliens in the future will come in - as many do now - legally through our airports. They just will stay illegally.

Posted by: C&J at July 22, 2012 1:17 PM
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