Third Party & Independents Archives

GOP Debate: The highs, the lows, and the winner

Here’s my take on tonight’s … cough cough … “debate.”

Fox needed to show Michele Bachmann trying to walk off-stage with no @ss since she LITERALLY lied it off during the entire "performan­ce."

To Romney: Every answer cannot begin with "Barack Obama ..."

To Gingrich: Too little, too late. Debating isn't your campaign's problem. YOU are your campaign's problem.

To Pawlenty: Oh goodie for you, Timmy. You found the courage to look Romney in the eye and say "Obomneycare." You get an extra squirt of chocolate syrup in your milk tonight.

To Santorum: You lived up to your name, as always.

To Ron Paul: Stop trying to keep up with these boneheads' rhetoric. Just say your sh*t, plain and direct. It's the only time you don't look like a grumpy curmudgeon­.

To Cain: When Godfathers Pizza attains one-millio­nth of the name recognitio­n that Pizza Hut and Dominos has, *THEN* you can claim to be a "master of business and economics.­"

To Huntsman: Whether or not you're "proud of your company" is irrelevant­. The fact remains - and it made you look like a complete idiot and chump - is that out of the 12,000 jobs you claim you created in your company, MORE THAN 10,000 OF THEM ARE IN CHINA AND SINGAPORE! You are LITERALLY the cancer that's rotting America's employment base.

Summing up the debate in terms of quality, pertinence­, relevance, honesty & display of actual leadership qualities, I have to say that I really enjoyed the "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" commercial­.

I can say with an almost unequivocal certainty, that the winner of tonight's Republican Presidential Candidate Debate is ... Barack Obama.

Posted by Gary St. Lawrence at August 11, 2011 11:40 PM
Comment #327530

Ha ha! Really enjoyed reading this!
And let me commend you for having the stamina to watch, Gary.
I just couldn’t bring myself to — afraid of the continual gag reflex.

Posted by: Adrienne at August 12, 2011 12:39 PM
Comment #327540

I watched about an hour of the comedy show our country is in sad shape if one of these buffoons can be elected to anything.

Posted by: Jeff at August 12, 2011 3:04 PM
Comment #327543

You think it’s a circus now, just wait and see the fallout from Rick “Minimum Wage Oughtta Be Good Enough” Perry gets his train wreck rolling.

And, of course, there’s always Sarah “Bait … Bait … Bait … BAIL” Palin and her non-candidacy sideshow.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at August 12, 2011 3:20 PM
Comment #327547

Gotta throw my two-cents in……what an absolutely pathetic showing of a pathetic group of wannabes !!
The biggest thing Bachman could tout was her introduction of legislation regarding light bulbs. Frikkin’ light bulbs!! Now THAT’S what I’m talking about……..

Posted by: jane doe at August 12, 2011 3:48 PM
Comment #327552

Yup…you’re all correct. Not one of those who were on the stage is a liberal or a big government spender. Some of them have only been governors and very successful business people…and not one of them ever took a government salary for driving folks to the polls and getting his government wards toilets fixed.

Not one of them is a closet socialist. Not one of them advocates the confiscation of others property under the name of distribution of wealth. Not one of them calls for keeping America’s energy resources untapped and in the ground. Not one of them is stupid enough to publicly call for increasing employment with federally funded construction projects and then limit those jobs to unions only.

Not one of them advocates that all Americans be forced to purchase government defined medical insurance or be fined. Not one of them has ever called a terrorist friend or sat in a church for years listening to a hate-filled anti-American minister. Not one of them would fail to salute the American flag. Not one of them fails to understand that Washington is the cause of our failing public schools. Not one of them would work to place even more unnecessary regulations on struggling businesses.

Not one of them would take this country $5 trillion deeper in debt. And finally, not one of them would lose to obama.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 12, 2011 4:47 PM
Comment #327558

And a 1 and a 2 roll in the clowns!

Posted by: Jeff at August 12, 2011 5:56 PM
Comment #327559

You think concentrating wealth in the top two percent of the population isn’t redistributing wealth? That would be a foolish thought!!

Rich folks don’t need our largess; they’re already rich. They tend to save (hoard) extra money. Poorer folks, on the other hand, tend to spend what extra comes their way. This is exactly what our economy needs. people spending, not hoarding! All the cuts to spending you can think of are only gonna shrink the work force. We both know that full well, although only one of us is gonna say it aloud.

So. We have a terrible economy……and your solution is? Lower revenue by: cutting taxes, and by cutting spending, which further erodes our income base (by “virtue” of putting a bunch of people out of work). Boy, that’s a smart move. But wait, it gets better!! Because now you can blame it on……OBAMA. I have to admire the gumption of this strategy, if not the certain outcome. That is, our country, in the shit can.

How long before you admit that the tax-cutting-uber-alles strategy is killing us? This country has always raised taxes to pay for wars, why is now different? The rich keep getting richer, you have the redistribution of wealth you say you hate so much, but since it’s being redistributed upward, you’re perfectly content with it. As the whole country swirls down the toilet. Nice job.

Posted by: steve miller at August 12, 2011 6:10 PM
Comment #327566

Steve, you were responding to comments I never made.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 12, 2011 6:44 PM
Comment #327568

My apologies…..I obviously have you confused with the Royal Flush who rails against “redistributing wealth” (even though that’s exactly what’s happening in the United States), and raising taxes.

Nice meeting you, Mr. Flush.

Posted by: steve miller at August 12, 2011 6:58 PM
Comment #327575

I wonder if steve could tell us whose wealth should be redistributed, how much of it, to whom should it be given…and why? Have you ever considered sending a letter to obama and asking for some of his wealth? How about a little John Kerry or Algore wealth and some of that Hollywood money would be downright tasty? The Sam Walton heirs, Bill Gates, and a whole bunch of religious organizations have more money than they need.

OH, wait, their wealth won’t be affected much as most of it is either old wealth or isn’t earned income subject to income taxes, or sheltered by some tax loophole.

I would guess that steve is talking about redistributing the wealth of those earning (by hard work) a few hundred thousand each year. OH yes…let’s penalize them and prove to the nation that a good education, dedication, and hard work is not an American value any longer.

I have posted numerous times that there are methods of increasing tax revenue beyond just increasing rates of taxation. I won’t bore anyone by repeating them.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 12, 2011 7:23 PM
Comment #327576

Penalize? With the lowest taxes in decades? Buahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!! That’s some funny $hit!!!

Call me a throwback, but I think it’s patriotic to pay taxes when I’ve done so well in America. I’ve written some big checks to Uncle Sam in the last few years, I just wish those fat cats were paying the same share of their income I was!!! And those dead-weight corporations who get tax subsidies ‘til they’re hardly paying anything? That doesn’t turn your stomach? I mean, what with the country ready to declare bankruptcy? Priorities… in, where are yours?

Again: being taxed at a fair rate is a duty to your country. The upward redistribution of wealth due to tax cuts for the wealthy is killing our country. Wake up and smell the coffee!!! We already have that which you profess to hate!! It’s just that it’s going your way.

Posted by: steve miller at August 12, 2011 7:37 PM
Comment #327580

Sorry steve, hard to respond to your comments. Ask me one question and I will answer. Or, present a plan for redistribution that works for you and we can talk about it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 12, 2011 7:47 PM
Comment #327585

Progressive tax rate such as we had from the 50s through the 90s. That’s my “plan”. We fooled with something that worked pretty well, and we’re paying a very steep price.

Merely saying that lowering taxes “incentivizes” job creation when the reverse is obviously, painfully apparent, is foolish. We done lowered the taxes, the country is in tatters. At what point do you admit it doesn’t work?

Posted by: steve miller at August 12, 2011 8:12 PM
Comment #327612

That’s the whole problem. They deal in absolutes. Until we can add some nuance to the discussion the country is stuck in neutral or worse going backwards.

Posted by: Jeff at August 13, 2011 10:33 AM
Comment #327627

Perry has the better hair and is therefore the predictable winner/candidate for the GOP.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at August 13, 2011 3:08 PM
Comment #327631

“At what point do you admit that it doesn’t work.”

It doesn’t work because the job is only half complete. Reduced taxation will bring good results when the lower class workers and a large segment of the middle class are placed back into their rightful position within the capitalist hierarchy. America will not be returned to it’s former glory until this goal is achieved.

I have tried to figure out when those glory days occurred, from a conservative point of view, and the best answer I could come up with was that America’s glory days where pre revolutionary.

It is hard to discern which political party should get the award for best actor in this ongoing comedic tragedy. Both play their parts well. The Republicans are demanding total surrender and the Democrats are playing the role of reluctant capitulates.

I will vote for the Democrats for best actor.

I find it harder to decide on which has the best constituency.

Posted by: jlw at August 13, 2011 4:09 PM
Comment #327633

Roy, it is not just the hair, Perry is also quite good at conservative demagoguery. Personally, I think Perry is actually a Bush, genetically. He only has one slight problem, he is pro illegal immigration, otherwise he is just about perfect for the evangelical right. He has positioned himself to get the backing of capital and a wink and a nod from the evangelicals. Now all he has to do is get that far right field narrowed down as quickly as possible.

Posted by: jlw at August 13, 2011 4:46 PM
Comment #327644

jlw wrote: “Reduced taxation will bring good results when the lower class workers and a large segment of the middle class are placed back into their rightful position within the capitalist hierarchy.”

I am *FASCINATED* by this statement … mainly because of the sheer audacity, arrogance, totalitarianism and Fascism that it implies.

Would you please define for us, in specific and non-rhetorical terms, exactly what that “rightful position” is?

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at August 13, 2011 7:59 PM
Comment #327659

Gary, I do apologize, I should have realized that my crude attempt at sarcastic satire would be unrecognizable as such.

Posted by: jlw at August 14, 2011 4:55 AM
Comment #327686

Perry for President…Good for Texas…Good for the Tea party…Good? for the US

Posted by: jcl at August 14, 2011 2:00 PM
Comment #327687

Please help Texans send another dumb-ass Texas governor to Washington.

Posted by: jcl at August 14, 2011 2:04 PM
Comment #327704

And to think…this is the Third Party and Independents column. What a joke.

Sounds like barry’s beggars are running scared only one day after Perry’s entry into the race.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 4:33 PM
Comment #327721

Royal, many third party and independents knew that Obama would be an ineffectual president, just because of corpocracy incarnate, the Congress and the Supreme Court. And, that was with out the benefit of knowledge that the Republicans would be determined to destroy his presidency.

The only thing worse is a President that is totally in tune with the corpocracy. Bush was and that cost the American people $5+ trillion in debt, the worse economy since the Great Depression and a teaed up Republican party that is determined to prevent the government from doing anything to attempt to revitalize that economy.

It is pretty damn obvious that what Perry and Bush have in common far outweighs any differences between them. I would describe Perry’s political positions as George Bush on steroids.

If you think Perry would be a good choice for president, I think you are wrong, seriously wrong. We need a president that can bring Americans back together for our own common good. Not another divider.

Rapturous events with evangelicals is the way to win a Republican nomination, but are your sure it is the way to win the election? Let me guess, Perry is a consummate politician. He will be the darling of the far right in the Republican primaries, then transform himself into a moderate for the general election. Standard procedure for both parties, right?

What we definitely don’t need is a president that wants to turn America into Texas. Perry and all the Republican candidates deserve the same appreciation that Obama has received.

Since Texas leads the nation in minimum wages jobs, what percentage of those jobs are held by illegal immigrants? Do you think Texas is number 1 or number 2.

Posted by: jlw at August 14, 2011 5:57 PM
Comment #327724

jlw writes; “…the worse economy since the Great Depression.”

And, the worst recovery since the Great Depression. The unfortunate dems and libs are stuck with barry as their candidate. Unlike his first campaign, this time barry has a record we can look at and examine. As we say in Texas…it ain’t purty…and stinks like a polecat.

As a conservative, I have many qualified folks to choose from and listen closely to each of them. I will be sure to let you know when I have chosen my candidate.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 6:45 PM
Comment #327725

Apparently the dems and libs have forgotten that George Bush beat a liberal sitting Vice President and the most liberal dem senator in the country. Had the reps nominated a conservative to run against barry instead of that jackass liberal McCain, they would be in control of the White House.

This time around the reps are almost assured of running a conservative for president. The country leans more right with nearly every election so if the libs and dems don’t know how to pray, now would be a good time to start.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 14, 2011 7:07 PM
Comment #327731

“And, the worst recovery since the Great Depression.”

Royal Flush,

A jobless recovery should not be unfamiliar to conservatives. The short lived 2001 recession by GDP standards was actually a long lived jobless recovery and characterized by lack of job creation. The problem of lack of job creation persisted almost through 2004, three years after the recession and the large Bush tax cuts.

It just might be that there are factors other than Obama at work.

Posted by: Rich at August 14, 2011 9:42 PM
Comment #327738

So Royal Flush, since you are clearly in the best position to tell us, what exactly *did* Rick Perry have for lunch last Tuesday?

Your partisan blinders are on too tight. They’re constricting air-flow to your already starving gray matter.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at August 15, 2011 12:37 AM
Comment #327739

Oh, by the way, Royal Flush, exactly one day into the race and Perry is already being investigated because SEVEN of his biggest campaign donor PACs are run by his current and/or former cabinet members and subordinates.

Seems like Rick’s Dicks aren’t even TRYING to hide the “buy the election” strategy.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at August 15, 2011 12:39 AM
Comment #327743
This time around the reps are almost assured of running a conservative for president. The country leans more right with nearly every election so if the libs and dems don’t know how to pray, now would be a good time to start.

I agree Royal. It is a serious problem that the nation will have to face sooner or later. I am hoping we don’t go the route of Germany in the late ‘20’s but with people like Perry and Bachmann actually being given consideration in the presidential election we can see how far the country has slide. The dumbing down of the public school system has worked to the benefit of the authoritarian conservatives. The lack of historical knowledge and other liberal arts has taken it’s toll.

So I still have to think that the American people of today are little different from the people of Germany in the early ‘30’s being led down the wrong path by the fascist parading around as conservatives.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 15, 2011 10:41 AM
Comment #327745

Think people! only way Perry gets elected is with the indy vote, the warm pee party, the religious nuts, and half hearted reps ain’t gonna be enough.

Posted by: jcl at August 15, 2011 11:31 AM
Comment #327746

j2t2 is close when he says facist, but Perry is a true nazi. Mandated vaccinations for ALL teen girls in Tx. supplied by a large campaign contributor, continues to dumb down Tex. by cutting education funding 50% in a state that is 37th in education, carries his .357 while jogging with his crew of bodyguards, lives in a rented mansion costing over a million $ a year. Google him, and then please help us get him out of TEX.

Posted by: jcl at August 15, 2011 11:42 AM
Comment #327749

Your partisan blinders are on too tight. They’re constricting air-flow to your already starving gray matter.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence

I can handle personal attacks very easily Gary, but you may be setting a bad example for others.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 15, 2011 1:38 PM
Comment #327750

So I still have to think that the American people of today are little different from the people of Germany in the early ‘30’s being led down the wrong path by the fascist parading around as conservatives.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 15, 2011

So sorry you missed your history classes.

The Progressives’ belief in using the state to coerce people into preferred forms of behavior characterizes both fascism and contemporary liberal politics, and the environmentalist and public health movements on the left provide evidence for that contention.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 15, 2011 2:38 PM
Comment #327751

Royal, if Romney is considered a conservative these days then the Republicans will nominate a conservative. Which is more important to Republicans, having a shot at winning the election or nominating a tea party candidate?

j2t2, some think that a corporate cabal has already secured control of our government. If that is the case, then I would suggest that both the conservative supporters of the Republicans and the liberal supporters of the Democrats are acting in the same manner as the German people did.

The Nazi’s crushed political dissent, the corpocracy thrives on it, depends greatly on it. Let them fight over gay marriage, gun controls, social programs, tax breaks for the wealthy, etc. Let the progressives raise hell about corporate personhood, money is free speech, etc., no one is listening to that bunch of socialists and certainly neither political party is going to act on those issues.

Posted by: jlw at August 15, 2011 3:52 PM
Comment #327753

Unlike jlw, I don’t believe that Romney has a lock on the Rep nomination. While I do agree that Romney is not conservative enough for me, he would get my vote if nominated. And, he is an infinitely better candidate for the Reps than McCain was in the last race.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 15, 2011 5:00 PM
Comment #327756

Jlw, you really are a person looking for a 3rd party.
The two fair haired dudes are bending over backwards to show the corpocracy their conservative roots. Romney, who made his fortune by selling off legacy textile equipment to China has ‘showed his sword’ to the corpocracy by stating that ‘corporations are persons’.
And, Perry, who makes claims of bring jobs to Texas, is dancing with those that brung him. He has brought 12 Chinese companies to Texas during his tenure. He is trying mightly to bring in a Chinese telcom, Huawei, which CFIUS/NSA has rejected twice on security grounds. The Chinese executive is a former leader in the PLA and helped oversee the Chinese military’s telcom intel in the 1980’s. Good man for the job.
For those not ready to pong from the ping, Obama is out their stumping for jobs again. Saying if congress would just do this or that we fix the whole thing, same song he was singing while US Senator and the same tune Bush was humming before he dwindled down. Maybe close some tax loopholes, maybe - - -

Posted by: Roy Ellis at August 15, 2011 7:49 PM
Comment #327757

IS a QE3 in yore dreams?

Posted by: Roy Ellis at August 15, 2011 9:23 PM
Comment #327761

Royal, I think Romney has the best chance of winning the nomination. Like the last time, Paul will siphon off a lot of the libertarian voters. Two or more of the candidates will be competing for the Christian right and the fringe right. If the field of far right candidates is narrowed to one or two candidates, one is better, vs Romney, they have a good chance of nominating their candidate.

Bachmann and Perry are competing for basically the same voters and many of them will have a hard time choosing between them. Both have qualities and rhetoric that those voters endorse.

I’m just speculating, we all are at this time, but remember the last time, the right beat up on McCain, bloodied him pretty badly, nearly knocked him out, and he won the nomination.

“The Progressives belief in using the state to coerce people into preferred forms of behavior…”

Do you mean laws like sodomy is against the law, like interracial marriage is against the law? Do you mean preferred behavior as in the preferred behavior is for a black man to step off the side walk when a white man is walking in the opposite direction or cross the street if it is a white woman?

I didn’t know that progressives where using the state to coerce and enforce those preferred behaviors. I am glad we did away with those progressive coercions.

Progressives and conservatives alike try to use government to coerce behaviors that they prefer. What is an anti-abortion law? What is a Defence of Marriage Act? What was the Prohibition Amendment?

If liberals are closet socialists then conservatives are covert racist fascists. Are we all in agreement on that?

Start with the two main ingredients, progressives or radicals and conservatives or reactionaries. Divide each into two or more factions. Mix and match a few concepts from each into a couple of those factions. You have the American voters.

Posted by: jlw at August 15, 2011 11:29 PM
Comment #327769

jlw, interesting thought. I wouldn’t totally disagree as many seem to want to appease the extremist on the far right. It seems to me that as we continue to get pulled to the right in this country by one failed ideological thought after another we sure let our leaders off the hook for appeasing these guys.

My opinion, based upon what I see, is many conservatives cannot see the fascism that is leading them off the cliff as they clamor for answers. We see this in all the “ism’s” the conservatives throw around as insults with such disregard for truth and accuracy. Royal’s definition of fascism proves this point IMHO. The movement leadership on the other hand knows exactly what they are doing as they lead their flock into temptation. Liberals, Centrist and Independents are complicit in this movement towards fascism by accepting the many different cabal’s money in exchange for votes, laws and regulations.

And Yes I am just as guilty as most of complicity for some of my choices. I do however try to learn from mistakes. All of this being said I still feel that the American people of today are the German people of the late 20’s.

Posted by: j2t2 at August 16, 2011 12:22 PM
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