Third Party & Independents Archives

Why are we still in Iraq?

The American invasion of Iraq was supposed to take only a few months in 2003: A quick-n-painless mission accomplished to depose dictator Saddam Hussein, find and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and then go home – in a matter of weeks, not months. And Iraqi oil was supposed to pay for it all.

Eight years and 1.668 Trillion debt-dollars later, more than 50,000 U.S. troops remain in Iraq, and not only is there no end in sight, the soldiers on the ground, as well as a swelling majority of American citizens can’t even tell you in a single sentence why we’re still there or what they’re accomplishing. Oh, and the price of oil has gone from $43 a barrel to its close today at $113.86 a barrel.

Despite a security agreement requiring a full U.S. military withdrawal by the end of this year, upwards of 40,000 American troops will continue to be deployed in Iraq beyond 2011. An average of 2.27 American military members will continue to be killed every day. And more than $12 Billion will continue to be paid every single month to Halliburton and it’s perpetually indicted-for-accounting-fraud subsidiaries for “troop support contracts.”

About 47,000 American troops are in Iraq now, about a third of the October 2007 peak of 166,000. As of this week, 4,439 U.S. personnel have been killed. A senior adviser to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the U.S. has suggested to Iraqi officials that up to 20,000 troops stay.

So those are the numbers, irrefutable and provable.

My question is: WHY?

What are we accomplishing in Iraq today? What murderous dictator are we overthrowing? How much freedom are we bringing to the country and its people? What weapons of mass destruction are still there? What cave-dwelling, video-tape-releasing terrorists are we hunting? What are we getting for the $188 Billion the United States will spend in Iraq by the end of 2011? And why is it that America only seems interested in “opposing human suffering” in countries that just happen to be oil-producing? Don’t agree? Name any military conflict since the invasion of Grenada or the Falkland Islands that didn’t take place in an oil-producing nation.

President Barack Obama is risking a political persecution the likes of which haven’t been seen since the Dixie Chicks spoke out against George Bush if he once again caves to Republican/teabagger decree and agrees to keep a U.S. force of thousands in Iraq beyond Dec. 31. But he also doesn’t want to be blamed for losing the war if Iraq is overrun by widespread insurgent attacks or sectarian fighting after U.S. troop departure. Baghdad political analyst Hadi Jalo said al-Qaida and former Baathists who led Saddam’s regime are likely to launch “big attacks in order to shake the government and show its weakness” after American troops withdraw.

But … not to sound completely dispassionate … why is that America’s concern? If we’re going to continue being the world’s police while hypocritically and defiantly claiming we’re not, shouldn’t we get something out of other than three dozen flag-draped coffins flown into Maryland every month?

And are we making so much “progress” in Iraq that we can afford two OTHER wars in Afghanistan and Libya? How many decades should we wait before we simply admit that Iraq military forces will NEVER be able to conduct themselves and all our “training” of them for the past eight years hasn’t accomplished a damned thing? How many reconstruction and support contracts does Halliburton really need?

For half a century after World War II, Americans were told that policing the world was a strategic and moral imperative: we were “saving the world from communism,” and “defending our own national security.” On this pretext, Washington overthrew democratically elected governments (after they’d financed, trained and installed the tyrannical bloodthirsty governments which preceded them). Then, despite overwhelming opposition from the American people, we went to war in Vietnam, and even supported genocide — from Indonesia to Guatemala — when our leaders found it politically convenient – and financially beneficial – to do so.

Looking at the world in 2011, it’s hard to believe that we were really fighting communism all those years. Today China is the only remaining communist country with any power, it’s about the replace the United States as the world’s largest economy, and it is the largest recipient of US foreign investment in the developing world. Ironically, that may be what saves us from a new Cold War with China – we owe them so much money that we couldn’t possible finance any opposition against them if they decide to “close the note.”

Should we come up with an eye-catchy iconic symbol to represent our world police officers? Should we issue our military troops stylish, all-black uniforms with calf-high black boots, crisply starched black shirts with arm bands and epaulets? Seems to me that the last crew who did that with the idea of policing the world in accordance with their political ideology didn’t fare so well.

Do we really want to turn the South Park creators’ movie “Team America: World Police” into a documentary? The teabaggers have proven that we’re already well on our way to doing that with “Idiocracy.”

The best way to prevent future incidents would be to stop looking for trouble all over the world. Do we really not have enough problems within our own borders? Are not enough people unemployed? Are not enough American children sick or starving? Do we have too few homeless people? We would never allow a foreign plane with sophisticated surveillance equipment to fly 70 miles from coast of Florida, gathering intelligence on our military. Yet Washington insists that it has the right to make 200 of these kinds of flights each year to spy on China, and to send drone planes to carpet bomb countries that pose absolutely no threat whatsoever – either militarily or financially – to the United States.

You can’t have it both way. If you want to play emperor, there’s a price to be paid to enforce it. Every single American – man, woman and child – is already paying more than $1960 each year to the Pentagon, while we forego urgent needs such as prescription drug coverage for our senior citizens, or ensuring that the money people have paid into Social Security for decades is actually going to be there for their own retirement.

While the American people bear the costs and risks of maintaining an empire, the benefits do not trickle down to us serfs.

But enough about this silliness, let’s do something REALLY important, like demanding to see Barack Obama’s grade school spelling bee records so we can determine his eligibility to be president.

Posted by Gary St. Lawrence at April 28, 2011 1:03 AM
Comment #322388


I just want to complain about the old “war for oil” idea. It’s too bad it wasn’t true. If it had been true, we would have that oil instead of paying for it and then letting others, including the Chinese, gain the benefits.

You are right that if a country is going to act the role of an empire it should do it. We absorb the costs, w/o getting the benefits. When the Romans conquered Carthage, they made money and got benefits. A modern scenario would have them paying big money to Carthage and all the Romans feeling guilty for oppressing the Carthaginians.

Posted by: C&J at April 28, 2011 9:32 AM
Comment #322390

“If it had been true, we would have that oil instead of paying for it and then letting others, including the Chinese, gain the benefits.”

C&J, it wasn’t meant to benefit the American people it was to benefit the American oil corporations, Bush’s buddies. They got first dibs and are profiting from it as they never were before. What am I missing here?

Gary, perhaps the question is why aren’t the Iraqis paying for US forces protection?

Posted by: j2t2 at April 28, 2011 10:23 AM
Comment #322396


But they didn’t get first dibs. That is the point. It was an open field, in which, as I said, the Chinese did very well.

I am not seriously saying that we SHOULD have fought a war for oil. I am just pointing out that if it HAD been a war for oil we would have the oil.

Even when we were in Iraq, we paid a lot of money for the oil and gas we used. We also paid a lot for reconstruction of things we didn’t break. Saddam’s lack of maintenance was the cause of most of the destruction. I thought then and think now that Iraqi money should have paid for all of that.

We ended up paying everybody and people still think we went in to take. It just doesn’t add up.

You may appreciate the humor. I was talking to an Iraqi once who pointed to a bridge that we had “destroyed”. He explained, ironically, that there was not much shock or awe in the destruction, since the bridge had essentially fallen down for lack of maintenance and people had been driving around through the wadi for fear of the thing collapsing. But he thought everything would be better now that the Americans would repair it and do a good job.

Posted by: C&J at April 28, 2011 11:28 AM
Comment #322400

Democracy isn’t shoved down their throats far enough to avoid gag reflex.

Posted by: Spinny Liberal at April 28, 2011 12:32 PM
Comment #322401

“It was an open field.”

An open field filled with corruption.

We as a people never got much of our oil from Iraq. The oil companies have been making record profits. It was for oil profits.

Serf’s have never benefited well from the advancement of Empire. Advancement of empire has primarily been for the benefit of wealth. Gain and control of foreign assets for the benefit of wealth. Today wealth is represented by multinational corporations.

Serf’s are just surf’s and should be treated as such, thus the conservative rant.

Of course, bridges in America don’t fall down because of a lack of maintenance.

Posted by: jlw at April 28, 2011 12:33 PM
Comment #322402

SL, republic has not been shoved down their throats far enough to prevent the gag reflex. If democracy were the game in Iraq, the Iraqi people would vote to again nationalize their oil and they would evict the U.S. troops.

The biggest demonstration against occupation was held in Iraq this past week.

Obama said the troops would be out of Iraq by the end of this year, 2011. Don’t hold your breath.

Posted by: jlw at April 28, 2011 12:52 PM
Comment #322405

Oh we all know it’s not about democracy, but that’s what they’re selling.

Posted by: Spinny Liberal at April 28, 2011 1:00 PM
Comment #322409

I have a better answer. “Because Halliburton hasn’t gone out of business.”

Posted by: Spinny Liberal at April 28, 2011 1:12 PM
Comment #322421

“We ended up paying everybody and people still think we went in to take. It just doesn’t add up.”

C&J we the taxpayer have paid for the rebuilding effort in Iraq on money borrowed from the Chinese. Part of the starve the beast policy of the conservatives. Our oil companies did very well in Iraq and more power to them. They got first round dibs. The Chinese came in during the later rounds of bidding, if I am not mistaken.

Perhaps the American oil companies should be directing the oil from Iraq to the taxpayers at a reduced rate instead of to the highest bidders in the world oil markets. Just a thought.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 28, 2011 3:09 PM
Comment #322423

“Our oil companies did very well in Iraq and more power to them.

Their well being only cost a few thousand American lives, perhaps a few hundred thousand Iraqi lives, and the taxpayers a fortune. Considering the fact that the price of gas just went up to $4.099 here, I guess it was well worth it.

Posted by: jlw at April 28, 2011 3:36 PM
Comment #322425

I guess I have gone over to the Dark Side on the issue of America continuing the role of world policeman. Our politicians tell us of the humanitarian, economic, and national security reasons for our involvement which, we usually find out later, were only partly or not at all true.

Our expenditure in blood and treasure has gained us few friends and many enemies. We are not appreciated but rather castigated on nearly every front.

We no longer enter into conflicts with clear goals. The military is hamstrung by politicians who care more about winning elections and spreading the war money around than any definable objective.

If I were in the military today I would resign. I have no respect for the CIC and most in the Pentagon.

Make me president and all of our troops would be withdrawn all over the world after giving a years notice to the countries in which they are deployed.

NATO is useless as is the United Nations. I would withdraw from both.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 28, 2011 4:18 PM
Comment #322432

You are correct Royal and the first place I would have pulled out troops would have been in Europe. Let them pay for their own protection. While we were rebuilding Europe after WWII, they were spending their money socializing themselves and creating a token military. Same for Canada, who has always depended on the US military to protect them. While we’re at it pull the troops out of Japan and Korea, let them protect themselves. The left wants to police the world and a the same time disolve the American military; can’t have it both ways.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at April 28, 2011 5:00 PM
Comment #322435

The left wants to police the world and a the same time disolve the American military; can’t have it both ways.

Nope. Not all. Many of us are non-interventionists.

Posted by: Spinny Liberal at April 28, 2011 5:25 PM
Comment #322437

I have come to conclusion that Spiney Liberal is really a closet conservative.

Posted by: Conservativethinker at April 28, 2011 5:54 PM
Comment #322442

And I have come to the conclusion that most people are not 100% Conservative or Liberal. ;-)

Posted by: Spinny Liberal at April 28, 2011 6:09 PM
Comment #322450

(tap-tap-tap) hello! Corpocracy here. Say, you can’t just pull the military out of these countries. Corporations depend on them to protect their interest around the world. We must protect our interests such as oil, keep the shipping channels open, protect foreign owned resources, etc. Best done through a strong defense network, corporate welfare, passing cost and risk on to the taxpayer.

Surely you must agree that has worked well for the past 200 years!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 28, 2011 6:33 PM
Comment #322459

Jlw & j2t2

“We as a people never got much of our oil from Iraq. The oil companies have been making record profits. It was for oil profits.” The problem is that neither American people nor American firms particularly got much. We were too altruistic. We gave it away.

The Iraqis expected us to take more. Everybody else did. But we didn’t. I am a cynic about these things. I think that people appreciate generosity, but not for very long. It is better to be generous but also keep your hand on the patronage well. In the past, when America was so rich in comparison to everybody else, we could do both and no country in the history of the world has been so generous, but now we have to be a little more careful.

Re bridges falling down - it is a matter of comparison. I know we like to complain about our infrastructure, but it is pretty good compared with most other places. Iraq was just horrible in its maintenance. I am going down to live in S. America for a few years. In the U.S. I can drive a Honda Civic and make it fine on almost all the roads. In S. America I needed to get a 4wd vehicle.

America’s infrastructure is “deep”. In many countries, if you stick to the major highways, they are very good. But the trunk roads are dirt or poorly paved. We are connected all over the place down to the capillary roads. We also have the world’s best freight rail system. We tend to underestimate our infrastructure because so much of it is out of sight.

It is certainly justified to complain that our infrastructure should be better maintained. But we have to look at comparisons. The question should always be “compared to what?”

Posted by: C&J at April 28, 2011 8:31 PM
Comment #322472

I, for one, am still waiting for the results of the “in-depth investigation” to find out where that $27 BILLION IN CASH is that “mysteriously disappeared and remains unaccounted for” from the Halliburton loading docks in Baghdad.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at April 28, 2011 11:02 PM
Comment #322477


I agree with you regarding our entanglement defending countries overseas. Many of those nations currently have very potent militaries more than capable of defending against threats. South Korea for example probably could defeat North Korea any time it wants. The only reason that hasn’t happened yet is because the South Korean government wants avoid civilian casualties.

I see the current engagement in Libya as the first step in this direction. The US has let France and Britain be in the drivers seat, which I think is a good thing considering that it was the French and British who were most eager to support the Cyrenaican Rebels.

Posted by: Warped Reality at April 29, 2011 12:16 AM
Comment #322492

C&J, why did you have a need to address the Iraqi bridge?

It is obvious to the world that no matter how bad the Iraqi infrastructure was, it was in far worse shape after we bombed the hell out of it.

Did we go to war with Iraq because it’s infrastructure was in poor shape.

Posted by: jlw at April 29, 2011 8:38 AM
Comment #322496
jlw wrote: Did we go to war with Iraq because it’s infrastructure was in poor shape.

No, actually, it was because America’s infrastructure was in poor shape, and Bush & Cheney needed to come up with a way to hide the fact that they never had any intention of ever doing anything about it.

While pocketing a trillion under the table, of course.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at April 29, 2011 12:10 PM
Comment #322520


It was not always in worse shape. We had the case of part of a refinery that we “destroyed” and one that just fell apart after years of neglect. The “destroyed” one was easier to fix, since you could start from the ground.

We had to address the bridge because the locals wanted us to pay for it. We didn’t, BTW. I told them that they had plenty of their own money for such things.

We were really good at bombing, BTW. Our attacks destroy very little. It is not like Berlin in 1945.

In Afghanistan you can tell who bombed what. If Afghans did it, the building has some parts blown out but it is ragged. If the Soviets did it, there is just a pile of rubble. If we did it, there is a neat hole or it is brought down with a precise shot.


Yeah, Bush and Cheney pocketed trillions under the table that nobody but conspiracy nuts can find. IN addition, Bush and Cheney both give much of their income to charity, so it is hard to figure their motivation.

Posted by: C&J at April 29, 2011 8:04 PM
Comment #322596

C&J, what you are saying is that we have become very proficient at killing people without a lot of damage to infrastructure. If that is our goal, neutron bombs are better. There are more than a million orphans in Iraq because of the war. We did not kill all their mothers, but we killed a significant number of them. I don’t know how many children were actually killed, but I would say it was higher than the number of orphans. Many were killed in the after violence, but the Bush Administration was responsible for that.

Gary, Bush and Cheney’s criminal activities are over shadowed by their charitable giving.

I actually don’t believe that Bush committed criminal acts of any great proportion unless we could have proven that he was directing Cheney to do his illegalities. I personally think Cheney is smarter than Bush and he used him.

Cheney is a criminal and a traitor and there was ample evidence against him and his corporation, Halliburton, to present to a grand jury and that never happened because he had become vice president. In addition Cheney is guilty of fabricating intelligence to grease the wheels for his war.

The American people know what Cheney is, his approval rating was testament to that.

Iran will name it’s first three nuclear weapons Pakistan, Russia, and Halliburton.

Posted by: jlw at May 1, 2011 11:11 AM
Comment #322597

C&J, did you say that the rebuilding of Iraq’s infrastructure is not being paid for by U.S. taxpayers?

Bush said the war wasn’t going to cost the taxpayers a dime.
That the Iraqi’s would pay us back for the war with their oil dollars for liberating them. I guess the oil companies are collecting that refund for us.

Posted by: jlw at May 1, 2011 11:16 AM
Comment #322608


No, what I am explaining to you is that we can cripple infrastructure or carefully target the dangerous fighters w/o as much collateral damage. In other words, fewer people are killed and less is destroyed in attacking the enemy’s ability to carry on the fight.

Our goal is to protect civilians and we risk American lives and treasure to do that.

Re Bush being responsible for the violence of the insurgents. Your formulation will not allow any opposition to tyranny.

re Cheney - you are just wrong on that. You have no evidence and neither does anybody else. It is like arguing with someone who believes the world is flat. I will cast no more pearls before you on this, except to say that if what you think is true where did all that money go?

re paying for Iraq - I advocated getting the Iraqis to pay for more. We made a bad deal on many occasions and were too generous.

Posted by: C&J at May 1, 2011 2:14 PM
Comment #322643

Hey C&J,

Osama bin Laden is dead.

Mission Accomplished.

For REAL this time.

Posted by: Gary St. Lawrence at May 2, 2011 12:14 AM
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