Third Party & Independents Archives

What happened to trust?

Why don’t we trust each other? When did we stop trusting each other?

I remember leaving the door unlocked.
I remember people leaving the keys in the car when they ran in to purchase a cup of coffee.
I remembered when people trusted each other.

I remember when we started paying people to guarantee that trust.
That was our biggest mistake.

That's when we started locking our cars. That's when we started tearing open individual packets of sugar to put in our coffee. We pay... because we don't want to protect ourselves, we want someone else to do it.

We leave our home in the morning and find it violated when we return, and the people we trust and pay to prevent this behavior just shrug their shoulders. My Democratic Party is now the Shoulder Shrugging Party. Because that's what my Democratic Party has reduced this county to. A nation of people who are led by those who just shrug their shoulders when confronted with a dilemma.

Posted by Weary Willie at April 4, 2011 9:32 PM
Comment #321073

Blaming the cops for the actions of the robbers. Sure explains a lot when it comes to why movement followers continue to believe the movement leaders.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 5, 2011 10:14 AM
Comment #321082

Kind of like blaming America for the actions of terrorist thugs… eh j2t2?

At least the terrorists will be tried in Guantanamo Bay without constitutional rights - THERE is a victory.

Posted by: Yukon Jake at April 5, 2011 1:28 PM
Comment #321083

Good post Willie

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 5, 2011 1:49 PM
Comment #321084

I have no idea what j2t2 said…

Weary, you’re correct, but the Happy Days of the 50’s and early 60’s are gone. We don’t trust each other because the liberal agenda has destroyed the morality of mankind, and not just in America. There was a time when we understood that hard work and ambition could take a person as far as they wanted to go, but today people feel they are owed a living by society.

Posted by: 1776 at April 5, 2011 2:02 PM
Comment #321085

Some of these terrorists should have been tried and shot 10 years ago. Even when Holder was announcing the military trials he was declaring it was wrong. His statements were for the benefit of the liberal base, who are undoubtedly furious. Today, the ACLU has condemned the Obama administration for the military trials.

Thank God we have some conservatives in congress who are willing to demand budget cuts from a gutless rooster in the WH.

Posted by: 1776 at April 5, 2011 2:13 PM
Comment #321092

Another one of those back in the good old days stories. Back in the good old days when there was no crime.

A refreshing change of pace from the good old days when markets were free and everyone was happy.

Back in the good old days when people of color knew when to step off the sidewalk, queers knew better than to step out of the closet, and Miranda was just a girls name.

I’m 61 years old and I remember the 1950’s and 60’s. I grew up on an escalating dose of sex, crime, and violence courtesy of capitalist TV, and the escalation hasn’t slowed down. I also grew up in a neighborhood where people did lock their doors, except during the day when mom used to be home. The old man battened down the hatches at 9pm sharp.

Perhaps we could compare those days to the good old days of the Christian conservative prohibition. That crusade for moral righteousness and conformity created a huge criminal element in the form of moonshiners, bootleggers, smugglers, and gangsters in addition to turning millions into speakeasy criminals.

Let me guess, prohibition would have worked if law enforcement hadn’t been LIBERALIZED.

Individualist conformists, that’s a good one.

Good conservative post Willie, didn’t even have to tax a brain cell. No cause and effect, no offers for solutions, just blame it on the liberals.

If you are old enough to remember the days when people were told, don’t bring your guns to town boys, we have cops now, then you are truly old.

Posted by: jlw at April 5, 2011 3:37 PM
Comment #321096

The question is how you create an environment where people are legally more capable of deception and fraud, yet wonder where the trust has gone. People had trust when they could trust our government to seek justice on their behalf.

When trillions of dollars in wealth disappears in a real estate and financial collapse, and nobody goes to jail, people wonder who they can trust.

When the corporations that spew pollution, cheat people out of their retirement savings spread the wealth among their executives in orgies of bonus-buck backslapping, why should people trust business.

Without justice, without law and order, trust is a form of naivete people can’t afford.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 5, 2011 4:38 PM
Comment #321097

I have a solution jlw, but it is often discounted out of hand by those who have been repeating the same mistakes over and over again believing it will do some good.

For instance, to combat underage drinking everyone purchasing alcaholic beverages must show ID. Even if you are older than dirt you still have to show an ID. The fact that underage drinking is still continuing proves that waving a magic wand in the form of a new law, a new violation of our common sense, doesn’t solve the problem. By the way! Guess who owns the monopoly on Identification documents? You guessed it. The government.
I am utterly disgusted with the fact that people are tolorating abuse in order to fly on an airplane. The idea that this can take place on such a scale, with barely a whimper from the public, is frightning and turns my stomach. Three year old girls are crying louder than the general public on this subject and that proves subjugation.

And think about this jlw: Prohibition did exactly what the government wanted it to do. It closed every still in every bar in the country and concentrated the production of alcahol into 6 brewerys. Once that concentration of suppliers was achieved prohibition wasn’t needed any longer and was repealed. Prohibition worked if the goal was to consolidate power over an industry as lucrative as liquor. The lust for power, I believe, is a Liberal thing.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 5, 2011 4:52 PM
Comment #321099
Without justice, without law and order, trust is a form of naivete people can’t afford.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 5, 2011 04:38 PM

What good are laws when they don’t solve the problem? Laws today create more problems than they solve.
Stephen Daugherty, you are proving my point. We have law after law after law on almost everything interacting with our five senses, yet it doesn’t seem to be functioning correctly. Is your next arguement going to say it’s a work-in-progress? Trust me, this next law will solve the problem?

I’ve got a magic wand I’ll sell you.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 5, 2011 5:02 PM
Comment #321103

Willie, when I was under age, one of the town drunks could always be hired to buy our liquor. Adults have and will always be the prime source for underage drinkers, be it the drunkard, the unscrupulous tavern owner, The older guy with the hot young date, or mom and dad.

If humans could be persuaded by law to be good moral conformists, there would be no need for law, religion, or government.

So, the Women’s Christian Temperance League only wanted to consolidate the industry.

George Washington began that process way back when.

Prohibition was repealed by popular demand.

Corporations are always looking for ways to consolidate. They need no help in doing so, only government non-intervention. If corporations had their way there would be only two brewery’s then one. If Rockefeller had his way there would be only one oil company.

Does government sometimes help the consolidation process? Sure does! Government free market policies drove millions of family farmers into bankruptcy and off their land.

You want to see more corporate consolidation? Get rid of the government regulations that prevent consolidation. Oh, we don’t have to deregulate, just do what the government has been doing, ignore the regulations and the laws that corporations find undesirable.

“The lust for power, I believe, is a Liberal thing.”

Another off the wall comment with no context displaying a limited cognitive ability.

There’s something happening here
What it is ain’t exactly clear
There’s a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it’s time we stopped children
What’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It’s time we stopped
Hey what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and a carrying sighs
Mostly say hooray for our side

It’s time we stopped
Hey what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step out of line the man comes and takes you away

We’d better stop
Hey what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

We’d better stop children
What’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

—Buffalo Springfield—1967

That’s what happened.

The battle lines were drawn. Nobody’s right cause were all wrong.

While the battle has raged, the corporate fascists have capitalized.

Long Live the Corpocracy, may it last a thousand years.

Posted by: jlw at April 5, 2011 6:04 PM
Comment #321107

Trust disappears when we don’t know people and/or when they have (or seem to have) significantly different values from ours. In this respect, diversity & mobility are enemies of trust. We make a trade.

In my forestry business, we made deals worth thousands of dollars w/o a contract. This is because we don’t have to report back to anybody else. But even there we have creeping bureaucracy, with various reporting requirements.

I had an interesting exchange today. I want to open a trail on one of my properties that would allow people to hike and view forestry operations. I was advised that one the plus side, Virginia law protects me from lawsuits as long as I don’t charge for access. They consider public access a public good and thankfully have so far ruled out most of the lawyers, but not all. I was also advised that if I make the trail available to the public, I might have to make it handicap accessible. Nobody is entirely sure what they means. A wheelchair could probably negotiate most of the trail, but I sure do not want to have to build bridges over the creeks or make a parking lot, so I will give up the idea of public access. I figured building the trail would cost me around $800, but that price might be for something too primitive for the higher level need. Sometimes a well-meaning law ruins other things.

So I would trust people to use my land, but I am afraid to do it initially because of liability and now because of bureaucratic legal demands.

Posted by: C&J at April 5, 2011 6:18 PM
Comment #321112

That’s right C&J! Laws and lawyers and layers and no security.

I’m suprised no one has suggested we just trust in ourself. Do unto others as they would do unto you.

Do you know why we don’t trust in ourself? Because we would be labeled a damned, non-conformist, racist, terrorist by the shouldershruggers.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 5, 2011 7:56 PM
Comment #321115

I believe trust must be earned. My parents earned my trust at a very early age by making certain they did everything they could to ensure my safety and well being.

My best buddies, there were five, all were trusted with my most prized possessions and deepest secrets.

My teachers were trusted to give me the very best education they could provide as long as I was willing to work and study hard.

The businesses in my small farming community in Wisconsin were trusted to sell good products at fair prices.

The police and volunteer firemen were trusted to come when called and protect the public against criminals.

My neighbors were trusted to keep a watch on our property when we were not home as we did the same for them.

My doctor was trusted to provide the very best medical practice he was trained to provide, even to those who did not have the money to pay him. The same held true for our dentist.

The bank where I deposited my paper route money was trusted.

Some wonder why those of us lucky enough to have lived in the 40’s, and 50’s have such pleasant memories. Trust played a large part in those fond memories.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 5, 2011 8:40 PM
Comment #321116

Thank you, Royal Flush!

Looking people in the eye made a big difference. We really should put our faith in our local government to do the food, clothing, shelter, thing instead of bowing to our children’s demand for token, emblem embossed junk they think they need to be accepted.

Keds are just as kool as nike.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 5, 2011 8:52 PM
Comment #321119
If Rockefeller had his way there would be only one oil company.
Posted by: jlw at April 5, 2011 06:04 PM

There is only one oil company, jlw! Are you frucking blind?

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 5, 2011 9:19 PM
Comment #321133

Willie, don’t you mean only one liberal oil company? It has to be liberal because it charges capitalists $3.799 and socialists $0.12.

The teachers, businessmen, cops, doctors, bankers, and neighbors are all liberals now and that is what happened to America.

Now of days, many of the home town businesses are corporate franchises. In the fifties business owners had a better rapport with their workers, there was loyalty on both sides. Corporations don’t have workers, they have production units. In the 50’s, Beaver’s mom could stay home. By the end of the 60’s, she had to go to work.

Yes, in the 50’s, neighbors did look out for one another, including each others kids. Today, your house can be robbed in broad daylight with the neighbors out in their yards and they saw nothing. Once I got lucky, the tracks in the fresh snow led from my neighbors house to my house and back to my neighbors house.

It’s not liberalism, it’s individualism, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest. A much faster paced, more competitive rat race. People have time for two things, work and indulgence. There are more people, fewer jobs, more competition for a pie that is shrinking for most, and a much larger criminal element throughout society.

When you talk trust and morality look straight at the corporate free market. It claims to be amoral which only means that it has no problem selling immorality because it is highly profitable.

“Keds are just as cool as Nike.”

I agree, but try convincing your kids of that after they have been worked on by Nike and the sports stars. If all the kids had to wear school uniforms they would have to be manufactured by Nike in Pakistan and sell for a minimum of $250 even though they cost $7.50 to manufacture. Many parents wouldn’t stand for anything less than designer.

Meanwhile, like his predecessor, President Business Hater has corporate donors lined up clear across the country, while his potential competitors are green with envy and playing catchup.

The way things are shaping up, Republicans may have to solicit unions and Medicare patients for election funds.

Posted by: jlw at April 6, 2011 2:41 AM
Comment #321154

Weary Willie-
In the short term, at least, many unethical, foolish, or deceptive behaviors yield more competitive results. It becomes difficult to compete with that if you don’t cheat.

So people cheat. Everybody cheats, and hopes things turn out well. The more successful cheats figure out the system, and do the most damage while they reap the greatest rewards.

And so it goes, until something finally gives.

Yes, we do need effective laws. We need elegant rules. We don’t need too much of a degree of micromanagement, but we can’t fail to manage things without paying the costs later.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 6, 2011 3:37 PM
Comment #321159

More and better micromanagement of government programs would have been far more appropriate. Lack of it is now threatening those who are most dependent on those programs.

Had they been managed more effectively, had the waste and the fraud been attacked aggressively, the programs would have worked better, been far more cost effective and those who wish to destroy them would not have a leg to stand on. Micromanagement of government is what politicians are paid to do and in especially the last three decades they have gotten a F for their efforts. The people have also gotten an F because we elected these incompetents.

Posted by: jlw at April 6, 2011 4:45 PM
Comment #321218


So people cheat. Everybody cheats, and hopes things turn out well. The more successful cheats figure out the system, and do the most damage while they reap the greatest rewards.

And so it goes, until something finally gives.

Does that sound like a someone who has given up?

Stephen Daugherty, have you given up? Are you resigning, not only yourself but the rest of us, to this expected crime and cheat? Are you saying the cheat is inevitable?

If so, then what good are laws? They’re just Fluff and Flutter that can be avoided!

Don’t kid yourself, Stephen Daugherty! An American is defined as someone who can work around the rules.

We should teach our children to be wary of each step they take, instead of just taking caution when we see a yellow sign in the middle of the isle.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 7, 2011 9:02 PM
Comment #321224

Willie, I’m not your huckelberry, well may be I am, but you will have to reclock to figure out why.

I would have hedged my bet and said nearly everyone cheats to one degree or another. My friends accuse me of being to honest for my own good, whatever that means.

I’ve noticed a significant increase in the number of people running red lights. It seems as if it is a learned behavior or contagious.

I remember some of those colorful quotations of the Reagan Era. Do you remember Greed Is Good? Might as well lay it right out there and say Sin Is Good, right?

That is the way Republicans are, break wind loudly and blame others.

No thing contributes more to the propensity for immoral behavior than capitalism. Immorality is highly profitable. Vanity alone supports a multi-billion dollar industry. Of course sex is the biggest seller of all.

While all that is going on, some TV evangalist is suckering some old widow out of the family fortune.

Posted by: jlw at April 8, 2011 12:24 AM
Comment #321269

Do you tell your children to cheat on a test because everyone does to some extent or another? “Go ahead and cheat on that test, little girl, so you can compete with all the other cheaters.” Do you say that?

Do you run red lights because you can get away with it? Do you tell your children, “If you don’t see anyone’s lights in the intersection it’s ok to run the stopsign!” Have you ever heard that?

How about speeding? Do you speed and just pay the fine when you get caught? Do you bitch and moan when you get caught? Do you blow off the fine and hope they just shrug their shoulders when the court date is due?

Why not? Everybody cheats! Oh! Wait! Sorry! It’s just Republicans that cheat, and we need more and more laws because those mean ol’ Republicans will just keep on cheating.

That’s not civilization, that’s the law of the jungle and it’s been that way since Kennedy was shot! What makes us believe the current situation should be perpetuated with more of the same? Democratics write a law and Republicans think their way around it. Round and round it goes.

Our current government and political process is more of a parasite than all of the welfare families it claims to protect. Tweeking the edges of this morally bankrupt process is futile. We don’t need a third party to do our thinking for us. We need a third way of thinking and acting on a personal level that can only be effective if others around us recognize this practice.

I tried to cheat on a test once. I was subsequently humiliated and failed the course.
I have seen what happens when two vehicles meet in an intersection. Stopping at a red light is a small price to pay considering the alternative.
Setting yourself up for a random encounter with the traffic cop is just stupid. I usually see the person who passed me earlier at the next red light, so what’s the point, right?
Some laws are functional and required.

My Democratic Party Representative insists I must present my Indiana Identification at a third person’s place of business to prove I am allowed to purchase the product. I cannot build a trust between myself and the third person’s place of business. I must present my Indiana Identification each and every time I purchase this product.

I cheat instead of obeying this law. When asked for my identification I flash it like that late show guy does with his emails. My cashier and I get a laugh out of it. I really am irritated I have to do it, but it doesn’t serve a purpose to show my irritation to this delightful business owner trying to make an honest living. It’s part of the subjugation process. We are forced to interact with others differently because of the whims of a third party dogooder. We cheat to make it as convienent as possible instead of insisting the third party recognize the futility of the entire manuver.

Teach your children to run on ice. Tell them it’s hard to know when the rug will be pulled out from underneath them.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 8, 2011 8:07 PM
Comment #321316

Weary, the Law of the Jungle? First you bitch about it and then you defend it.

Capitalism is the Law of the Jungle!

Government social programs must be eliminated because they interrupt the Law of the Jungle!

Do gooders must be put against the wall because they try to interfere with the Law of the Jungle!

I don’t have any children so thanks to Uncle Sam’s tax codes you got over on me every year at tax time. I’m not complaining about it, but if you would like to split the difference with me send me a check.

Posted by: jlw at April 9, 2011 7:29 PM
Comment #321326

jlw, you can’t know if I got over you at tax time. In fact, if you knew my practice you would call me a fool at tax time. If you knew the truth you would be getting over on me, but I don’t play that game.

Dogooders should be against the wall, or something. Now, they are in congress writing tax laws they don’t entend to follow. If they don’t have to follow them why should we? If that’s the case why write the law to begin with? Is it because we hired them to write laws and they entend to do just that regardless of the consequences?

Don’t get me started on social programs. When’s the last time any of us have spent a lifetime depending on the government’s social programs? I haven’t. Have you? What started out as an insurance policy turned into an excuse. Anybody and everybody, whether they paid in or not, can claim benefits. Try running a business that advertises free money, free health care, free food. See how long you stay in business. Do you see any common sense being practiced in the administration of our social programs? I don’t.

We’re living in the jungle now and it’s being hailed as the only alternative. Any change is bad change because it might upset the status quo. No one wants to say the current situation isn’t working so they just say cheating is ok. That’s a pathetic and simplistic excuse to defend the way things are done now. That’s just an excuse to justify the subjugation we are currently being exposed to.

Posted by: Weary Willie at April 9, 2011 8:43 PM
Comment #321332

I am bombarded daily by companies offering free this or free that. The other day, I saw a professional coupon cutter that got $900 worth of food for $38. Free and Sale are very important words for corporations. Two pair for five dollars and buy one, get one free is how my mother kept shoes on the feet and coats on the backs of her children. All nine of us kids got a new coat every spring.

The primary status quo being defended is that of wealth, the 20% that has most of the wealth. That is the status quo being protected and why most of our politicians come from that 20%.

This country was running surpluses in the late 90’s. The politicians made a deal to balance the budget and then Bush and the Republicans gained control of the government. We couldn’t have done worse if we would have just quite beating around the Bush and elected Exxon Mobile and Bank of America.

To make the system work better you have to want to make it work better.

Now it is time for the jungle brought to you live and in living color by corporate capitalism.

Our American lifestyle is not civilization it is the law of the jungle. Is there a better word for greedy, self-interested, wanton materialism?

The law of the jungle is survival of the fittest. That is capitalism. The better you can compete in that jungle the better off you are. Some reach major predator status, some make it all the way up to the top of the food chain.

Posted by: jlw at April 9, 2011 9:43 PM
Comment #381090

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