Third Party & Independents Archives

Let's Stop The Clock, Right HERE

So, how do you like living in the Corpocracy of late? Only took them 20 years to bring us the greatest transfer of wealth in history, render us the greatest debtor nation, deliver the ‘great recession’ with a very expensive soft landing, and on and on. Ask for the major reason and you get corrupt politicians, corrupt financial institutions, globalized economy, etc. All wrong, IMO.

Our major problem stems from one specific event with the passage of Corporate Personhood into law. Through that one ruling the Supreme Court destroyed any semblance of ‘free and clean’ elections. The Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote”, there are amendments being proposed to guarantee the right to vote.
Strangely, voting rights for citizens are not guaranteed in the Constitution. While we speak of “spreading democracy” globally, the U.S. is one of just 11 nations among 120 or so constitutional democracies that fail to guarantee a right to vote in their constitutions.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court (SC) has failed to get it right on some occassions. While we can reasonably attribute this to political activism or special interest it all comes back to the same point. Corporate Pesonhood (CP) law. Not only are our elections distorted by CP, every bit of legislation passed into law is tainted. I can think of no law that is not directly or indirectly affected by CP. While CP stands for Corporate Personhood, in a larger sense it stands for Corpocracy, an amalgamation of big business and big government tag teaming on the citizenry.

Listen at ‘ole Abe’ bemoan the Corpocracy: “The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed.”

Over time we have had good laws and bad. Some take the position the Constitution is a ‘living document’ and, therefore, we don’t need to look in the rearview mirror. Some feel the Founder’s were inferior Neanderthal’s, old-white-racists-deists. IMO, we have incrementally allowed the Constitution to be abused to the point where it is near worthless as a governing document. To make law stating corporations are human and money is free speech leaves little room to take heart in the Constitution as anything other than something that once was. Some dude said if we don’t know our history we are bound to repeat it.

There must be a concerted effort to remove the Corpocracy, go back and right some wrongs while we still can. This would require a real political fight and would necessitate standing up a new 3rd party with a different political attitude. A Party targeting reform of government, void of all social issues. A Party designed to prevent being co-opted by special interests and allows Party members to serve as oversight for their elected/appointed officials. IMO, we should stop the passing of time until we accomplish reform of government.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 4:14 PM
Comments
Comment #300341

Illegal Immigration could be the favorite of the CP. It’s resulting cost of labor favors the corporation over the legal immigrant and the citizen. Often the wrath of the citizen is misplaced when directed at the illegal immigrant. They come here for the same reason the legal immigrant does. The illegal immigrant who scoffs at our laws cannot be blamed because it is our government that is allowing their actions to benefit.

There is a solution to this delema. Let me find the quote, hmm, Yes! Here it is!

… That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 6:07 PM
Comment #300343
How do I like living in the Corpocracy of late?

I don’t like it. I don’t like having only 2 ways to insure my retirement! I don’t like the government taking my money and I don’t like the volitile stock market controlling my investments. I’m not sure these distastes have developed in only 20 years. Perhaps this 20 year boundry is bias and should be adjusted. Consideration should be given to the other 80 years that have been unfortunately connected to our history, but conviently overlooked.

This is a gateway link to what others think of CP

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 8:03 PM
Comment #300344

WW, I’m surprised McCain didn’t register up and run as a democrat in his bid to stay in office. Now, seems Rubio is seeking middle ground on the immigration issue. I suppose his constits understand and will continue to support.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/08/1619271/suddenly-rubio-likes-arizonas.html
But, you can take this immigration problem and connect the dots right back to Corporate Personhood. IMO, nothing good can come from a government bought and paid for by big business interest. Jefferson, said we have a right and duty to set things straight. That’s my position. We should not allow the Corpocracy to proceed further. We should work to vote out every incumbent every time and put a 3rd Party hell bent on reform on to the Corpocracy akin to a pack of dogs after a coon. Weary, would you not luv to be on some congressional committee and remove 100 tax loopholes a week until the Corpocracy begs to have CP abolished?
Here it is willie in black and white. From today’s wash post: “Tea Party” helps topple incumbent GOP senator in Utah”. Republican Senator Bennett lost his bid for a fourth term and 18 yrs tenure. One down, hunerts to go!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 8:38 PM
Comment #300345
While we speak of “spreading democracy” globally, the U.S. is one of just 11 nations among 120 or so constitutional democracies that fail to guarantee a right to vote in their constitutions.

I’d like to remind everyone that Abe Lincoln and I both know our country is a republic, not a democracy. I’d like to think that many others would make this distinction and favor it. Democracy is a failed concept. It is not our form of government. It is what the progressive mind-think wants us to believe.


Taxation Without Representation


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 8:59 PM
Comment #300346
Weary, would you not luv to be on some congressional committee and remove 100 tax loopholes a week until the Corpocracy begs to have CP abolished?


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2007/0206.html

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 9:06 PM
Comment #300347

weary? Are you the same weary willie? Had no idea you were keeping tabs on FOAVC and swapping keystrokes with that mad dog d.a.n. Good info on CP. I’ve tried to make contact with groups working to abolish CP but have been mostly unsuccessful. Thanks for the wealth of info in that url.

I’ve really missed d.a.n’s insight and graphs and charts. Will have to tune in to FOAVC and give my voice to the battle.

Yes, a Republic. We have too much democracy, foot in the door here and there and then incrementally eating away at the Constitution. Woodie gave us the income tax promising no more than a 7% rate. Now we are supporting the UN, WTO, IMF, World Court, Sally’s pizza hut, etc.

Support an AVC to abolish CP and MIFS? You bet!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 9:15 PM
Comment #300348
weary? Are you the same weary willie?

I claim my 5th amendment right.

All that is needed is a clarification of what the 14th amendment should say. Perhaps an Article V convention is needed to do this. I would think it would be a vehicle to change the word person to citizen. Does that sound to simple?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 9:24 PM
Comment #300349

Dagnabit!
I meant to say, “Does that sound too simple?”

No one cares about that, do they?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 9:35 PM
Comment #300350

Aha ww!

Here’s some general sentiment. http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/do-not-go-gentle-into-the/

Yes, an AVC could be used to abolish CP, modify CP or do whatever folks would sign up for. Would be a small matter to VOID incumbents until they’ve had enuff and willingly sigh up to support AVC. Getting it done is the lesser problem. Getting a majority off the couch is the greater.

I believe the job can be made easier by using a 3rd party to prod the Corpocracy into destroying themselves. Or, perhaps ‘absolve their mission’ is more politically correct. Well, I’m in for the remainder of my life. When I see big oil busted up into so many ‘gas stations’ I’ll know we have won the fight!

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 9:36 PM
Comment #300351

I started to read your link. Ouch.
I couldn’t go to the second page because the first page ended in disaster!

The problem is, there’s no such thing as stasis. A nation, a corporation, a species, an individual, must either advance or decline. That’s nature. And, as we sink into complacency, whining effetely about our declining economy, there will be others advancing to take our place as the dominant world power, industrially, economically, and (eventually) militarily. That’s a historical inevitability.

Ok. Fine I’ll read the second page.

And if we don’t like the way the world is shaping up in the post-American era, we will just have to suffer the consequences.

Yea, Roy Ellis, maybe I should join the third party.


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 9:54 PM
Comment #300353

Or, Perhaps I should mark a steady progress towards a complete changeover in our government. With an attitude towards the abolishment of political parties.

Why not? Would our grand-children be any better off if they were a Democratic or a Republican in 50 years? Or, would our grand-children be any better off if they were American Citizens in 50 years?

The choice is yours, not theirs.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 10:18 PM
Comment #300354

WW, you should sign on. It will give you a feeling of relief like you’ve never known. A Jeffersonian ‘warfighter’. Able to leap tall corporations in a single bound, etc. You can, at once, become a white knighter and a ‘Johnny Cash’ black knighter. Just knowning that when you sign on corporations will never be the same, that should be enuff.

But, do remember that when you sign on you will be asked to agree to support the Party’s agenda - abolishing CP, MIFS and campaign finance reform. We want to bring focus to the fight and not have people wandering off making decisions in all directions. Reform first, then eat ice cream later!

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 10:20 PM
Comment #300355

No party. The Party is over. I don’t even know what MIFS is! Can’t we quit with the party bullshit and find the least common denominator in the American equation?

It’s really simple. No real thought required. It really boils down to: “Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.”

Is that too simple for the progressive world? Or is it too complicated?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 10:35 PM
Comment #300356

Quite possible WW, but first we must fight fire with fire. There is no way to ‘absolve’ the Corpocracy other than thru FOAVC and/or a 3rd Party with a different political attitude. To reclaim the Republic we must abolish CP, MIFS and then carry out CFR whereby, elections can be carried out without the influence of money or special interests. Indeed, the government ran fine for some number of years before political parties were dreamed up to facilitate control of the majority by a vocal minority.

If you are having trouble making up your mind on joining the Party I could throw a coupla ringers out there that would near bring tears to your eyes.

Like, are you aware that Rep. Norm Dicks (D-WA) is about to become the next House Ways and Means Comm Chair giving him broad control of $1.4T of your tax dollars. He will relegate John Murtha’s largesse to that of a homeless person.

Don’t bust out in tears jest yet. Did you know that the Corpocracy, in an attempt to ‘blunt’ the impact of the SC decision on Corprate advertising in elections are proposing that those corporations exceeding 20% foreign ownership can’t use independent expenditures to support/attack candidates. Isn’t that Special? Also, if one or more foreign nationals have the power to control the decision making process of the company, the company can’t use independent expenditures. Can’t you just imagine the Corpocracy checking every second of the day to see if a corporation has hired a decision maker? I’ll bet the SEC would be on that like stink on a June bug.

There, you should be wheedling and beggin to join the 3rd Party at this point WW.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 10:55 PM
Comment #300357

But, that’s the rub WW. Progeressives will, incrementally, eat your cake. Maybe go back and reread the URL about going gently into the night. It’s the nature of human beans to try and collect all the marbles, a la Boeing and their mini-corpocracy, conglomerates, monopolies, billionaires in general, trading companies, etc. For the last 20, or perhaps 80 years these genteel folks having been squeezing the taxpayers as so many grapes in a barrel. You aren’t going to change their modus operandi by nicing them to death. Gotta fight fire with fire, a 3rd party with .… We ‘grapes’ must choose fight or flight.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 11:08 PM
Comment #300358

Roy, I ain’t got a clue where yer commin’ from with this wheedling thing. I ain’t got a clue about that or yourins MIFS. Did you git that off sum a dult webpage?

I think we’re on the same side, Roy Ellis.
Let’s focus on repealing the government perks like the 27th amendment to put a dent in the corporcracy’s ego.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 11:08 PM
Comment #300359

It seems to follow rational though WW. Close the border, then we will talk about immigration policy. Abolish Corporate Personhood and Money Is Free Speech and we can talk about Saint Hood for corporations or absolving all political parties, etc.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 11:13 PM
Comment #300362

What matters to me most of all:

I get the skillet coated with the same substance my favorite president was coated with.
I pour a couple of ounces of peanut oil in the skillet and turn the fire up high. Peanut oil can resist high tempuratures. My least favorite president proved that.

Next, I cut up the biggest potatoe I had into 7 really thick slices and dropped them into the fiery hot peanut oil in the favorite skillet. I coated them with some pepper, salt, sage, and ginger. I swirled the potatoes around and then let them settle, then layed a pork steak on top and covered the skillet. I let it set and fry for about 3 minutes.

Then I turned the pork steak over, I pulled the potatoes out from underneath the pork steak and layed them on top. I covered the skillet and let it fry for another 3 or 4 minutes.

My pork steak and potatoes are now on a plate, waiting for me to finish this post and call it a day.

With that I say:

G’night Gracey.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 11:27 PM
Comment #300363

My wife sez I hafta go to bed.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 9, 2010 11:31 PM
Comment #300364

Dagnabit! I get it now!

Money Is Free Speach!

duh

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 9, 2010 11:36 PM
Comment #300370

I guess I’m not up on my acronyms, what the hell is FOAVC? ….and somebody call C&J, we might have some illegals here.

Posted by: gergle at May 10, 2010 2:16 AM
Comment #300374

The problem with the 3rd party you envision Roy is difference- as in there ain’t no difference between the Republic Sentry party and the Tea Party nor the Repub Party,IMHO. You have been hoodwinked by Beck into believing the progressives are the problem whilst the corpocracy works it’s will.

If only FDR hadn’t set up a corporacy is such unbelievable nonsense that I find it hard to keep a straight face when I read your post. Hoodwinked to a degree I have not seen before Roy, and I agree with your concerns regarding MIFS and corporate personhood.

“This is a dangerous time for American where our Republic is rapidly morphing into a Plutocracy or government by the wealthy. FDR warned of this possibility in 1938 ~

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence is Fascism~ ownership of government by individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.”

The game is on ~ the enemy has been identified ~ as activist groups organize and a few courageous politicians try to implement legislative stop gaps to this insidious corporate cancer but corporate groups are also ready to attack the legislators who dare to oppose them.”


http://bearmarketnews.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/the-corpocracy-rules-for-now/

Posted by: j2t2 at May 10, 2010 8:34 AM
Comment #300376

j2t2, the difference between Republic Sentry and other advocacy groups is that Republic Sentry establishes five or six rules to which each member must agree. These rules prevent the party from ever being co-opted by the money influence. The rules can’t be mucked with unless 66% of membership agree to a change.

Thanks for that good URL. I just posted a reply there. Takes brass gonads to put the word ‘populist’ in print, IMO.

Beck, IMO, is pointing out that our government worked just fine from the beginning up until the Wilson/FDR era. Would he reject Social Security? Dunno. He definitely is against big government and he sees the Progressives as the prime pusher.

I’m not in luv with Beck but he makes more sense than any other entertainer/media/talkshow/blogger person. I could care less about any idealog. I’m interested in bring the Corpocracy down. To do that people must be educated somewhat in our history, the Founder’s, etc. No sense looking for the future when you don’t know where you came from, IMO. Beck spends an hour each Friday teaching on one Founder. He draws a bigger audience than the cable news/media outlets combined for that one hour.

Beck says you can identify a progressive by watching to see who supports big government programs. Are progressives pushing this Cap and Trade thing? Who is pushing this next immigration bill?

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 10, 2010 9:49 AM
Comment #300383

From a great article in the NY Times…http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/opinion/09friedman.html?th&emc=th

“DEATH NOTICE: The Tooth Fairy died last night of complications related to obesity. Born Jan. 1, 1946, the Tooth Fairy is survived by 400 million children living largely in North America and Western Europe, known collectively as “The Baby Boomers.” “We’ll certainly miss the Tooth Fairy,” one of them said following her death, which coincided with the 2010 British elections and rioting in Greece. The Tooth Fairy had only one surviving sibling who will now look after her offspring alone: Mr. Bond Market of Wall Street and the City of London.”

“We baby boomers in America and Western Europe were raised to believe there really was a Tooth Fairy, whose magic would allow conservatives to cut taxes without cutting services and liberals to expand services without raising taxes.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 10, 2010 1:10 PM
Comment #300384


Yup, no free lunch, even for the tooth fairy. Greece bailout to cost us $8B, FED is to make loans to foreign banks (??), Fannie and Freddie have received $140B in bailouts thus far and Fannie needs $8B now to stay afloat. Since BP is Obama’s largest donor I expect him to move quickly to put the oil spill risk on the taxpayer. The Pres. committed $100B to the IMF last year.

Debt around the world:


http://www.cnbc.com/id/33506526

Out of the world’s 75 largest economies, the United States has the 20th largest as debt-to-GDP ratio, standing at 94.3%, with a gross external debt of $13.454 trillion and an annual GDP $14.26 trillion. In fact, out of the largest 75 economies, this number is just above the worldwide average of 90.8% Western-European and North American countries dominate the upper end of the spectrum, with Switzerland (422%) and the United Kingdom (408%) at the #2 and #3 spots, respectively, and Ireland representing the most drastic debt-to-GDP ratio. According to the most recent World Bank data, Ireland’s number stands at a staggering 1,267%.

Causes the mind to ponder whether the G-7, G20 etc are implementing a plan for one currency, one economy and/or perhaps one world government. Pass it on.


Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 10, 2010 1:45 PM
Comment #300385


Royal Flush, we can eliminate social services and privatize Social Security.

That could delay the inevitable for a while.

It would have an added bonus as well. We could close many of our overseas bases and bring those troops home where they will be needed.

We are addicted to the products of the corpocracy and dependent on it. We are going to do nothing about the corpocracy except maybe fake it.

I think the real problem that the people, the corpocracy and capitalism is facing is one of growth over the long haul. To little economic growth and to much population growth.

The book Clinton should have written was It Takes A Disaster.

Posted by: jlw at May 10, 2010 2:48 PM
Comment #300389

jlw, if we are going to do nothing about the Corpocracy then why bother with the other stuff? Let’s take a 180, whack the Corpocracy and then take on other stuff. Why would we want to continue legislating in this environment? What can you reasonably expect from that? If the Corpocracy was removed then privatizing SS might be a good thing.

Through Article V Convention, voting incumbents from office every time, and supporting a 3rd party with a different political attitude we could wrap up the Corpocracy pretty toute suite, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 10, 2010 3:12 PM
Comment #300401

“Beck says you can identify a progressive by watching to see who supports big government programs.”

Roy you seem to be identifying the problem of the corporate takeover of our system of electing our representatives and corporate influence on our elected representatives as the vague issue of “big government”. IMHO the size of government is a different set of issues and only seems to distract many from the problems of MIFS and CP. That is why Beck is so dangerous, the intentional deception he uses to confuse his listeners only serves the cause of the corporacy.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 10, 2010 9:43 PM
Comment #300403


j2t2, I’ve looked at some urls you recommended and surfed around re Progressives. They definitely seem to be anti-corpocracy. I keep looking for a Beck expose on Progressives but nothing yet. I find more info where the progressives are disgruntled with the Dems and the administration.


http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/its-war-seiu-starting-third-party-in-north-carolina/

http://www.opednews.com/articles/2010-Third-Party-Time-for-by-Howie-Hawkins-100101-972.html#startcomments

So, I suppose i’ll save my keystrokes for the the Dem’s and Rep’s in general and the administration in particular. Nothing short of amazed that a bunch of radicals, under the guise of the Daly Chicago political machine has co-opted the White House. With nary a byte from the mainstream media during the campaign. Amazing! We should have taken our que from the ‘GD America’ rant by Jeremiah Wright. Many did. I voted for Nader so feel guiltless in that regard. The FED sending our tax dollars to foreign banks and we’ll never see a penny returned. Bailing out Socialist governments, etc. And, people just sit there on the couch and watch the entertainment. I’m ashamed for that. We have failed so badly in protecting the Republic.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 10, 2010 10:15 PM
Comment #300410


And, people just sit there on the couch, built by the corpocracy, watch entertainment sponsored by the corpocracy, on a TV built by the corpocracy, munching snacks processed, packaged and shipped to their local corporate supermarket by the corpocracy in a house financed by the corpocracy, wearing slippers…..on and on…

Who needs subliminal suggestion?

Roy, If I had my way, I would break these corporations up into little pieces but, most of the people aren’t listening and more importantly the Congress is not entertaining any ideas of doing so.

The amendment to limit the growth of banks failed by a two to one margin.

Our government is not the only one that corporations are bribing to do their business. As long as the money can be used in this way it will be.

And, they don’t have to bribe that many politicians, only key politicians in each party and the parties themselves. The key politicians and the parties bribe and blackmail the backseaters into line.

Posted by: jlw at May 10, 2010 11:52 PM
Comment #300412

Roy, I think that if the SEIU could get on the fall ballot and cause all three of those incumbent Democrats to lose to Republicans it would be great. If progressives were to unite they can bring the liberal Democratic Party to it’s knees, a well deserved position.

Oh how I wish that I could vote for a Progressive Party or a Labor Party so I could at least vote for someone that represented me.

I voted last Tuesday. I voted yes on issue one and no on issue two. I never even glanced at the Democrat politicians on the ballot. I know that not one of them would be representing me.

By the way Roy, I will never think that privatizing Social Security would be a good thing. Wrap it up in nice paper and tie it with a pretty bow and it will still be a bad idea. Privatize, then make employer contributions voluntary, next, make participation voluntary and we are right back where we started when Social Security was established. Beck would love that.

I could possibly change my mind but, that would be the day that we have equal opportunity for all. A day which I and I dare say, no one alive today will live to see.

Posted by: jlw at May 11, 2010 12:49 AM
Comment #300422

Yes, corporations are able to buy off politicians around the world and pass the cost on to the taxpayers. It doesn’t get said as its considered heresay or speculation but, IMO, many politicians are made wealthy through selling their vote. New vehicles, college costs, vacations, and money stashed in their relatives bank accounts or in offshore accounts are just some of the shenanigans going on. Oh yes, and cheap loans, good deals on real estate, etc.
Agree, that privatizing social security is the wrong approach. SS should be fixed in a secure investment. That means an instrument whereby politicians can’t get their gruby hands on the funds. But, it’s a fact that were we rid of the Corpocracy and in an environment where the people could trust government then we could look at a lot of things differently. Immigration is a great example of that. Starting with Regan the corpocracy has played political games with immigration.
People no longer trust government to do the right thing. The Founder’s provided Article V Convention to handle that very situation, yet the corpcracy has shut that door, in direct violation of the Constitution, no words to parse there, direct violation. And, the corpocracy has done what they feel is sufficient to shut down 3rd party avenues.
But, you would have to be brain dead to not realize revolution is in the air. Independents, Tea Party, Article V advocates, Vote out Incumbents advocates, abolish corporate personhood and money is free speech advocates, and many other organizations are fomenting reform of government. One hopes that at some point these ‘extremist zealots’ would realize that to be effective they need to join a common cause. Under the banner of a 3rd Party with a different political attitude, IMO.
Hopefully, people will come to realize that when fighting a snake the best approach is to cut its head off. Doesn’t do any good, IMO, to lament high taxes, earmarks, corruption, etc until you locate the central source for problems. While folks have identified the central source as government and business tag teaming on the taxpayer, they seem to have no interest, indeed an aversion, to taking any action to remove the head of the snake, that is abolish corporate personhood and money is free speech. Immediately, all things become possible. Campaign Finance Reform, market regulation, stable economy, etc. Otherwise, government free of the money influence and special interests.
Can only be accomplished through a unique 3rd party approach IMO. A Party with rules to prevent being co-opted and so on… .

We can start the process now, in 5 years, 10 years, but the sooner the better, IMO. It ain’t going to get done by voting in a fair haired President like Clinton, Bush or Obama. A low point in my life occurred when my wife went to Culpeper to see Clinton/Gore and actually hugged Clinton. Still hurts! I voted for Nader as usual.

Otherwise we have the Socialistic-Corpocratic government we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 11, 2010 10:57 AM
Comment #300433
…you would have to be brain dead to not realize revolution is in the air. Independents, Tea Party, Article V advocates, Vote out Incumbents advocates, abolish corporate personhood and money is free speech advocates, and many other organizations are fomenting reform of government.
.http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/007061.html#300422

Many are fomenting with the wide degree of issues this quote emphasizes. Many parties are vying for positions and pieces of the pie. But shouldn’t you be asking why?

people just sit there on the couch, built by the corpocracy, watch entertainment sponsored by the corpocracy, on a TV built by the corpocracy, munching snacks processed, packaged and shipped to their local corporate supermarket by the corpocracy in a house financed by the corpocracy, wearing slippers…..on and on…
.http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/007061.html#300410

watch entertainment sponsored by the corpocracy, on a TV built by the corpocracy
watch entertainment sponsored by the corpocracy, on a TV built by the corpocracy
watch entertainment sponsored by the corpocracy, on a TV built by the corpocracy

Who said that, about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
My opinion is; If you have a different opinion these days, you’re either broke, or in jail, or banned.

One hopes that at some point these ‘extremist zealots’ would realize that to be effective they need to join a common cause. Under the banner of a 3rd Party with a different political attitude, IMO.
.http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/007061.html#300422


http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/006464.html#277272

The voters however, can only respond to elected official’s failures AFTER the FACT, not prophylactically./blockquote>


Hmmm, not so much, because this country was built around the individual, not a party. It is true the individual needs the community, as does the community need the individual. But, I’ll be damned if that individual is the federal government!

If you want to focus on something that will matter, start with a repeal of the 17th amendment.


http://www.ontheborderline.net/?p=4911

When senators represented states as states, rather than being super House members as they are now, they zealously protected states’ rights.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 11, 2010 9:00 PM
Comment #300444

Is there a difference between corporations and national politicians?


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-whitman-20100512,0,5712952.story?page=1&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Posted by: gergle at May 12, 2010 12:45 AM
Comment #300453

Well… not according to the SCOTUS interpretation of the 14th amendment.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 12, 2010 1:55 PM
Comment #300455

But Congress still has 90% re-election rates.

So the voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least until repeatedly rewarding failure and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, and corrupt incumbent politicians finally becomes too painful.

Perhaps, when enough voters are jobless, bankruptc, homeless, and hungry, they’ll finally question the habit of repeatedly rewarding failure and corruption?

Until then, the majority of voters have what they deserve.

Posted by: d.a.n at May 12, 2010 3:39 PM
Comment #300456

Welcome back d.a.n.

Posted by: gergle at May 12, 2010 3:42 PM
Comment #300457

Hello gergle.

Weary Willie wrote: Perhaps an Article V convention is needed to do this.
Yep. What might bring it about is for at least one state legislator to re-file another law-suit. They can even use Bill Walkers case brief, and these 700+ Article V applications at FOAVC (Friends Of the Article V Convention - supporters of the U.S. Constitution, including Article V).

But you have to wonder … why hasn’t at least one state legislator filed a law suit? Perhaps it is because many (if not all) state legislators have aspirations to run for a cu$hy, coveted federal office, and they don’t want to commit political suicide.
Or perhaps it is because they don’t want the federal government to stop giving back some of the tax dollars they send to the federal government every year?
Or perhaps it is because most (if not all) politicians are simply incompetent and corrupt because they are repeatedly rewarded for it with 90% re-election rates?

Roy Ellis wrote: Through [an] Article V Convention, voting incumbents from office every time, and supporting a 3rd party with a different political attitude we could wrap up the Corpocracy pretty toute suite, IMO.
I agree, but that’s a choice that the majority of voters will have to make, and the majority of voters obviously aren’t feeling enough pain and misery yet!?! And by the time they get it, it may be too late to avoid decades of economic decline; a death of a thousand cuts?

At any rate, the majority of voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , at least until repeatedly rewarding failure and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, and corrupt incumbent politicians finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at May 12, 2010 4:02 PM
Comment #300458

Want to participate in CONVENTION USA conducted by a Florida non-profit corporation, whose purpose is to conduct a Article V Convention on the Internet as near as possible in the manner contemplated by Article V of the United States Constitution?

Posted by: d.a.n at May 12, 2010 4:26 PM
Comment #300492

The FED passed Bernie Sander’s amendment to audit the Federal Reserve. Surprised me. Will be interesting to find out which banks received some of the $2T dollars given out as emergency funds during the financial crisis. Now the FED is making loans to foreign banks, of which we will never see a penny. Also, on top of $149B, Fannie Mae needs $8lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllB more and Freddie Mac needs $10.6B more.
I’m a frustrated populist blogger. My Dell Inspiron pumps out ‘l’’s lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllltllllllllllllllollllllllllllllllollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllltollll lllllllllllllllltlllllllolll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllp;ll;pl;;l;l;;;;’;ll’ to the point where I can hardly flog the blog. Gotta find some other kind of machine pdq. Apologize if I don’t respond to post in a timely manner.
http://www.ontheborderline.net/repeal-the-17th-amendment/
From the url posted by weary willie:
“When senators represented states as states, rather than being super House members as they are now, they zealously protected states’ rights. Then the usurpation of the intent of the framers (ratification of 17th Amendment) has lead to the modern populist movements, led by politicians with vast political power, be it by their actions, their choice of special interests, or those that are communicated by the media. Ironically, one of the reasons that the 17th Amendment was born was the perception that the election of senators by state legislatures made them more susceptible to corruption by special interests. Thus in 1913 the 17 Amendment was ratified.
It is no coincidence that the sharp rise in the size and power of the federal government starts in this year as the the 16th amendment, establishing a federal income tax, was ratified that same year. Prior to the 17th amendment, senators resisted delegating power to Washington in order to keep it at the state and local level. As a result, the long term size of the federal government remained fairly stable during the pre-Seventeenth Amendment era. Was 1913 the beginning of the end?”
http://studyourhistory.com/
This is Gary Wood’s website. He is a strict constitutionalist and a Libertarian I believe. A good educational site as it relates to the Founder’s and the Constitution. Gary is emphatic that the 17th amendment is when we took the wrong path to government. But, as I often tell Gary, you ain’t going to get real reform of government until we put a 3rd party with a different political attitude in the driver’s seat. IMO, absolutely nothing can be accomplished re reform as long as the two party corpocracy retains power.
d.a.n., d.a.n., the numbers man! Have we missed you! We need your info to refute the corpocracy when they fudge the numbers. Also, need info AVC and appreciate your work/participation with the Friends of Article V Convention, www.foavc.org. This new attempt at a Convention will be very interesting. If a bunch of incumbents loose in 10 and 12 that might change the political attitude of those elected officials remaining as it relates to AVC.
Wunerful! An AVC carried out over the Internet. I blog a lot that the Internet will be the mechanism/media that saves our Republic, hopefully. But, the corpocracy is coming on strong. First we had Fairness Doctrine, then Internet Neutrality and after those two were rebuked the corpocracy is going for labeling the Internet as a ‘public utility’. The corpocracy is determined to find a way to shut YOU up re your free political speech. Recently, the President made the comment that Internet “information becomes a distraction, a diversion”, interfering with democracy. Cass Sustein recommends banning such blogs, tax them, put up counter speech/discredit them, hire 3rd parties to act up and make them look bad, and informed communications (?). For instance, the LA Times posted that Beck was failing, advertisers and audience leaving etc. Not sure how being a public utility plays into the hands of the corpocracy, but standby, we will find out. The Wash post recently published an article that Christians should stand up to Beck. AFLCIO, SEIU and Van Jones Group is boycotting Beck.
Help me out with some freedoms and rights we’ve given up lately, or those things achieved by the Corpocracy to put the risk on the taxpayer. Data relating to your purchases, finances does not belong to you. You have to pay some, often corrupt corporation for a credit report, over which you have no input, control. Data relating to your purchases, where you shop, can be shared between businesses for whatever use they want to make of it. Some young people in Va. carrying 4.0 GPA’s have been rejected from UVA and other Virgina Univ’s while supporting the education of foreign student enrollment upwards of 50% student population. The courts have agreed you have no right to privacy of location. Using you cell phone, driving down the street, on Interstate highways, in restaurants, etc, you have no right to location privacy. The federal government wants you, the legal citizen, to show you ID if stopped by law enforcement. But, if you are illegal gov wants to tell law enforcement they have no right to pursue questioning to find out if you are illegal. The federal government, through a violation of immigration law chooses to put the citizen at risk to drug gangs, border related violence, bankrupted hospitals and governments etc. You may want to check out d.a.n.’s website, www.one-simple-idea.com for government abuses against the legal citizens of this country. Las Angeles has agreed to boycott Az as has a girls basketball team. Major league baseball would like to, but hasn’t decided to boycott yet.
Well, Beck ticked off a bunch of rights and abuses by government, but I can only come up with a couple. Missed his show tonight so I’ll have to rise at 2am for that.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 13, 2010 6:37 PM
Comment #300493

Roy Ellis, Can I still post here?

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 13, 2010 7:09 PM
Comment #300494

Oh! Good! TNX!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 13, 2010 7:10 PM
Comment #300496

I’ve found it odd and somewhat convenient for the government, that the 16th and the 17th amendments were ratified in the same year.

Quite strange considering the mode of communication in that era. My question is: Were the states sure of what they were ratifying? Considering the controversy involving Missouri’s legislation sent to D.C. in reply to the 16th amendment, I wonder if the “word for word” requirement was considered. It seems to me the reply was used to ratify, not an agreement on the amendment word for word.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 13, 2010 7:28 PM
Comment #300497

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE&fe

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 13, 2010 7:38 PM
Comment #300502

I would like to join Roy Ellis and d.a.n in support of Convention USA, but my credit card got tagged again.

I’m left helpless. My bank is calling me every other month to tell me my card is under attack and I need another.

I wait for the pin. I wait for the card. I use the card and I get a call from my bank’s billing dept a few weeks later!
“Your card is suspect and we are issuing another!”

What?! Again?!

I’m ready to hire another bank but I’m not sure I will find the security I’m looking for.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 13, 2010 9:49 PM
Comment #300511
Weary Willie wrote: Illegal Immigration could be the favorite of the CP [Corpocracy]
Nothing anyone says or does about illegal immigration has any credibility as long as they ignore the greedy illegal employers, and the despicable politicians who permit it, and continue to pit American citizens and illegal aliens against each other for profits and votes.

If Arizona and other state governments are truly concerned about illegal immigration, then why not prosecute the greedy illegal employers? Why is there almost no mention of that? It’s because they are not really serious about solving the problem.

Those trying to make a race, color, ethnicity, class, or nationality issue of it do so because all of their arguments are weak and unsustainable excuses and common tactics to divert attention away from these serious problems and burdens:

Crime is a serious issue, but only part of the many issues costing U.S. tax payers net losses of $70 billion to $326.7 billion per year; some estimates place losses much higher;

  • burden on education systems;
  • burden on healthcare systems;
  • burden on hospital systems; 84+ hospitals closed/closing in California; 70% of women giving birth at Parkland Memorial hospital in Dallas,TX in only the first 3 months of year 2006 were illegal aliens; same thing for this Florida hospital; border states are hit hardest, but it’s happening in all 50 states in the U.S.!
  • burden on welfare systems; over 32% of illegal aliens receive welfare (often for their children born in U.S. hospitals at U.S. tax payers expense);
  • burden on Medicaid system;
  • burden on Social Security and Medicare systems;
  • burden on border patrol systems; ever increasing numbers are needed;
  • burden on insurance systems; illegal aliens can/will not pay for damages they cause;
  • burden on law enforcement systems; costing California billions per year;
  • burden on prison systems; 29% of state and federal prisoners (Sep-2004) are illegal aliens (based on GAO report);
  • 2.3 million displaced American workers; partly because half of all illegal aliens that don’t pay taxes, and greedy employers that don’t pay unemployment taxes, Social Security, Medicare taxes, etc.; Ask your Congress persons why we keep bringing in 1.5+ Million foreign workers a year to take American jobs when 11-to-25 Million Americans (as of Jan-2009) are unemployed (not even including the tens millions of existing illegal foreign workers in they U.S. and the millions coming to the U.S. illegally every year)? If that bothers you, then please see: AmericanWorkers.org ;
  • voter fraud; burden on voting systems;
Most Americans say that they want illegal immigration stopped now, and do not want another amnesty program (a.k.a. guest-worker program; path-to-citizenship program; etc.) that will quadruple the problem again, just as the previous amnesty of 1986 accomplished.

And it is despicable how many irresponsible incumbent politicians are now pitting illegal aliens and American citizens against each other for profits and votes!
Democrat politicians want votes and cheap labor, and Republican politicians want cheap labor.
So the problem grows worse and worse. And half (or less) of a fence is only for show, because neither are serious about solving the problem, because both want cheap labor and/or votes.

Irresponsible incumbent politicians have ignored this problem and the voters for decades, BUT the majority of voters also continue to repeatedly re-elect, reward, and empower those very same, bought-and-paid-for, FOR-SALE, look-the-other-way, irresponsible, incumbent politicians. Too many voters whine and complain about corrupt government, but they then do an interesting thing on election day. They re-elect THEIR politicians. Many lazily and blindly pull the party-lever. Half of over 200 million eligible voters don’t even bother to vote at all, and too many voters don’t even know who their politicians are, much less their dismal voting records.

So the majority of voters are culpable too, and have what they deserve, and can whine and complain all they want, but it will only get worse and worse as long as the majority of voters are their own worse enemy.

At any rate, the voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , and re-elect, at least, until repeatedly rewarding failure and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, and corrupt incumbent politicians with 90% re-election rates finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at May 14, 2010 9:22 AM
Comment #300514

Right on d.a.n. As long as the Corpocracy can get away with doing nothing it’s a win-win for them.
We are the only country that supports an ‘anchor-baby’ policy, put in place in 1868 to protect slave families. The population of this country of over 300M is being driven by immigration. Projected growth for the U.S. for the next two to three years is dismal. Job growth is non-existant. States are broke and can no longer support the burden of illegal immigration. Some states are taking action to alleviate their situation.

Attny Gen Holder said he had not read the ten page Arizona law but has said numerous times that he is against the Az. law.

The Corpocracy continues to break the back of the middle class worker in developed countries around the world. They are determined to give us globalization and make us like it. They are continuing with the redistribution of wealth right thru the recession, determined to revolutionize capitalism, IMO. Worker impediment to movement across borders is not part of NAU, NAFTA, WTO, or IMF policy. So it goes.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 14, 2010 12:02 PM
Comment #300515

An old url that retains perspective:

http://www.globalpolitician.com/21446-immigration

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 14, 2010 12:18 PM
Comment #300538

What you speak of is true, but it requires Politicians to cooperate in the scheme of things to make it happen, and those Politicians want their cut to cooperate and that is done thru Lobbyist, legalized bribery my friend, thats what it is, the big corps have been powerful for a long time and they get their way usually, but when Bush 1 came on the scene with his New world order things changed dramatically, people hear New world order and they think oh hell its a conspiracy nut, but its real, what do you think the trade agreements are? or the invasion on our southern border? its all part of the plan. If you don’t believe me ask yourself, who has benefited the most? Average Joe working at the factory or the super rich since these things came about.It really boils down to greed but we have also put ourselves in a qaundry by allowing these things to come about, because tax revenues are falling, and who will pay for the roads and schools and other needs, the middle class jobs are gone, we can’t compete with China or India or illegal laborers, part of it was to destroy the Unions and of course to maximize profits, but the service sector is over crowded, we are in debt bigtime, where is the money going to come from to pay the Governments bills? The corps move their money offshore, they don’t want to pay taxes, so who?

Posted by: Chris at May 14, 2010 9:12 PM
Comment #300557

Good response Chris. One might portend that the Corpocracy made the right decisions beginning with the Regan era and forward. But, the one thing that firmly puts me against the Corpocracy is that it was all done in secrecy, incrementally. Nothing was said about a plan for world peace or a plan for utopia. There was no public debate, not in this country or on a worldwide basis. The Corpocracy chose to trash the U.S. Constitution, anti-trust law, and act as they say fit. The Corpocracy got their wick bent went they tried to secretly, incrementally shove the NAU through but they haven’t give up. Their failure to secure the NAU is the reason for our southern border problems today. NAU law is still on the books, they just can’t enforce all of it. Otherwise, they have had their way with this and other countries, NAFTA’s and all the AFTA’s etc. IMO, bringing about a new world order was not at the forefront on their effort as was making sure the big corporations of the world held sway over the world economies, the trade world. Indeed, they set up their own government, WTO, supreme to the U.S. Constitution, to carry out their bidding. As the url in my above post relates, the WTO can and does come into your town should you take any actions that would be seen as an impediment to world trade. Trying to keep a Wal-Mart out of your town is a good example.

So, in that sense there is nothing new. A NWO where all countries compete requires a fairly balanced labor force. Toward that end the Corpocracy has worked tirelessly to break the back of the middle class in this country. It was largely accomplished through financial deregulation to include this greatest recession that was planned for us. IMO, we have to get to $4-5/hr labor rates before we can compete with Asia. Coming out of this ‘jobless recovery’ people may be willing to sign on at those rates.

That brings us back to your question. How will we pay for things like education and health insurance. As I see it the Corpocracy plan is to collaspe the middle class and the upper middle crust can only follow. Knock the blocks from the middle class and everything else has to follow.

The Corpocracy believes they can control the crash by playing off the recession with great infusions of cash. Cash borrowed from low wage trading partners facilitating the redistribution of wealth around the world. We have no idea how the Federal Reserve is playing into this scheme. I suspect they have been shoveling money overseas for 20 years or more. I think we just gave the IMF a $1T to help with a soft landing for the EU. Again, borrowed money.

So, we’ve experienced the greatest xfer of wealth in history. What to do about it? Won’t be easy. If we try to change course out debt managers will up the interest rate and rattle a rocket or two. Still, we must make some changes to prevent the U.S. from becoming a Greece or worse. IMO, before anything can be done to reform government as it relates to foreign policy, trade and the like, we must remove the head of the snake, the Corpocracy. There are bssically three parallel approaches that have been advanced here and other places. We need to push for Article V Convention (AVC) as provided under the Constitution. The Founder’s provided a way for people to restore their trust in government through AVC. We need to vote incumbents from political office in great numbers. This will serve to slow and weaken the Corpocracy. We need to stand up a 3rd party with a different political attitude with the sole mission of bring down the Corpocracy. This can be done by abolishing corporate personhod and money is free speech law followed by campaign finance reform. When these things have been accomplished we will have removed the money influence from the political equation. But, until those things are accomplished little to nothing can be done to change our fate.

Otherwise, we have the Socialistic-Corpocratic government we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 15, 2010 9:41 AM
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