Third Party & Independents Archives

Things Are About To Change

Political activists are ramping up their message as the November election draws ever closer. One wonder’s how much ‘activism’ is based on true patriotic feelings as opposed to financial gain, or loss. I have a friend who related that back in the days of the Daly Machine in Chicago if you weren’t a democrat you had slim chance of finding a decent job in that area. A number of media jobs may hinge on which party is the ‘in’ party. The opposing entity seems to prefer smearing their opponent with some sort of civil rights phraseology. Accusations of racism and violence are at the top of the list.

A couple of dudes have labeled Beck, Palin and Limbaugh as near seditionist. Clinton is concerned the Tea Partier’s might create another Oklahoma City. Beck displayed some words that John Adams used to attack Jefferson as a presidential candidate. A gist of what Adams wrote was that people would have their money stolen, women would be raped, incest would occur on the highest mountain, etc. Even knocked Jefferson’s family name. Such was the free speech our Founder’s where protecting. Today, many have the perception that from the days of yore, democracy has been incrementally changed and free speech doesn’t mean the same today as it did a couple of hundred years ago. Still, Speaking out on political issues is deemed patriotic or ‘American’. Martin Luther King said our lives begin to end the day we begin to remain silent on things that matter. But things may be a changing.

We are facing down something called network neutrality where the federal government might control the cost of your Internet service, among other things. The Library of Congress wants to archive all the ‘tweets’ sent around the world. Government seems to be extra sensitive to the fact that the people have the ability to express themselves politically with the advent of the Internet. It’s going to be hard to impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. But, try they will.

In spite of all the negativity, I’m feeling pretty good about the political prospects for reform. Something like 80% of the public doesn’t trust the government to do the right thing. Some 58% feel the system of government is broken. The TEA Party, IMO, has the Corpocracy over a barrel going into this next election. This healthcare thing looks like it’s going to fall apart, under it’s own weight. John McCain was able to ignore the people for the last several years. Now, he has to answer up and flipping on immigration at this point is not likely to save him? If the Court’s shoot down the AZ immigration law it will inflame the voting public to no end, IMO.

I’m looking for voters to move out a good number of incumbents this fall. I’m somewhere between slap happy and dumbfounded by the pace and the way things are shaping up. If voting out incumbents is successful in 2010 then 2012 isn’t far down the path. Whatever the number is for 2010 we should strive to double that for 2012. Tenure Corrupts, Voidnow, and Posted by Roy Ellis at April 24, 2010 6:21 PM

Comment #299456

“The TEA Party, IMO, has the Corpocracy over a barrel going into this next election.”

Roy the Tea Party is sponsored by Corporate America how do you suppose the tea party has the corporacy over a barrel? Both the repubs and the dems are fighting for wall st. campaign funds, and the tea baggers are not putting up candidates or platforms for public office so how are they doing us any good?

Most tea baggers are nothing more than “small government” conservatives mad at the repub party. They have been fooled into thinking that once the federal government is smaller all of our problems will go away. They don’t even realize the problem is the corporate takeover of our government. If they get their way we will have more repubs/conservatives as our elected representatives. How foolish is that? Is our collective memory so short that we have forgotten the 107th and 108th Congress? We are still paying for their mistakes. If the tea baggers our our salvation then we have lost.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 24, 2010 11:18 PM
Comment #299458

Tea Baggies…Glenn Beck’s force of willing idiots. Most members are reasonably close to middle class Americans who have been convinced they are paying more taxes now instead of less. They blame government for losing jobs, when it was obviously their corporate sponsors who have wasted those jobs. They imagine a time of return of middle class dominance in America by chanting against the only hope for that return. They do not realize that their corporate sponsors are the cause of the huge migration of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy few. they are too ignorant to see that they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. And, the only reason they are that ignorant is because they have placed their brains on hold in a box on a shelf in Glenn Beck’s garage.

Posted by: Marysdude at April 24, 2010 11:44 PM
Comment #299468

I once worked for a man than constantly railed that his employees were stealing from him. I knew this man rather well. Of Course, the converse was actually true. He regularly stole from his employees, or rather the company’s profits which the employees shared in the profits, if meagerly. That or he would cheat them out of overtime pay.

John Adams was known for his Sedition Act, rather infamously, and in a very common Fruedian turnabout, he was an active participant in stirring up the rabble that his cousin Sam led in various hot tarring and feathering of Torries and other physical assaults as well as evicting Torries from there house by terrorizing them as they took axes to the houses, destroyed furniture and even burned them.

Of course, Adams pretended to be above it all, and declared like most politicians of the time not to even be seeking office.

Funny how that works. The guys that do the dirty deeds always worry and complain about the other guys doing dirty deeds.

I haven’t seen too many people protesting Tea Partiers, but a lot of people comment on their outrageous behavior. Wanna bet if Tea Party members are elected they will seek legislation or acts to suppress protests?

Posted by: gergle at April 25, 2010 1:31 AM
Comment #299478


The Tea Party groups are “astroturf”. That means they are artificial grass roots. I caught an interview where some were insisting that Obama wants to outlaw fishing. A good 30% simply know for a fact that our president was born in Kenya dispite his Hawaiian birth certificate and two Hawaiian newspapers publising his birth announcement in 1961.A good portion believe he could be the Anti-Christ! How seriously should they be taken?
Eugene Debs was sentenced to ten years in prison for sedition. His crime was opposing the US entry into WW1.Actually as the SC put it, his crime was that people listenned to him. You have all the free speech you want so long as nobody listens. This is not new. MLK had the FBI on his ass in a hurry,as soon as White people startind listenning.
Net neutrality is a good thing if done right. ISPs want to be able to direct searches toward sponsered links,charge for content etc. It bears wathching but do not panic.
You are celebrating the possibility that 35 million Americans may lose better access to health care? You like the idea of companies denying coverage to children with birth defects or kids being able to stay with their parents coverage until they can get set up?? Beyond me.The only way I can see that point of view is to assume a deep hate for everyone.
You really think it is a good thing to bash immigrants. Wall Street,in an isane bout of wealth grabbing decimates the economy. Obviously the solution is to attack some poor bastard that is willing to risk his life to pick lettuce for ten hours a day to help his family. It must be his fault. Thats American as apple pie.THAT is why the Wall Street ghouls can still call the shots. Its a tactic they have used for hundreds of years. Their greatest fear is that the best part of America,the part that puts in an honest days work, will some day figure out that they have a lot more in common with that lettuce picker than with those blood sucking “Masters of the Universe” at AIG,or Goldman Sachs.

Posted by: bills at April 25, 2010 8:43 AM
Comment #299489

The pros say it much better than I.

“The problem with the tea party movement, besides their almost universal rejection of dentistry, is that they want money for nothing and chicks for free. They want a deregulated free market and their jobs to stay here in the US; they want guaranteed health coverage regardless of preexisting conditions without a big government mandate; they want to call themselves teabaggers and people to keep a straight face. And of course they want big tax cuts along with deficit reduction. I can’t even think of a suitable analogy for that disconnect—it’s like thinking getting a handjob will clean your garage.”

Bill Maher

Posted by: bills at April 25, 2010 12:20 PM
Comment #299492

Tea Baggies are not marching to a different drummer, they are marching to the same drummer in a different way…whee! That makes me feel proud about our freedom of speach…but wait…freedom of speech is not free if it is bought and paid for in the corporate market place…is it?

Is this all just another ploy to get us to move to the cabin on the mountain side and regroup as pioneers?

Chant, “Government is bad…big government is all bad, little government is good…no government is very good”, then chant it again and again, until the kool-ade drinkers show up, as they will show up…in droves, give them a name, but don’t give them a direction, and don’t explain where you got your mantra…Beck is smarter than I thought. He can’t spell, and he cries on TV a lot, but he knows the buttons to push that will create his personal wealth. I just wish so many were not so gullible…wistful sigh!

Posted by: Marysdude at April 25, 2010 1:00 PM
Comment #299496

There are more than 20 types of temporary work visas. Then there are the anchor babies. Something like 50% of graduate students are foreign born. These folks may check in but there is not checkout process. Once in, nobody has the authority to ask a person if they are legal. Then there are the anchor babies. Immigration is driving the population growth in a nation of 300 plus million people.

Want some relief, some reform? Want the Corpocracy neutered, Corporate Personhood and Money Is Free Speech abolished? Want Campaign Finance REAL reform? Stand for a 3rd Party with a different political attitude. Primary mission for the Republic Sentry Party.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 25, 2010 1:37 PM
Comment #299497

Failed to copy over my previous post in its entirety. Lemme try again.

I’m always amazed by the divers opinion out and, knowing that I am so right, I wonder how you guys could get it so wrong. By the Numbers.
J2t2, on the TEA Party: Started by grassroots Republicans who were fed up with the Bush Party, big spending and big wars. They are now being co-opted by the GOP, Palin etc. All will vote Republican in the coming elections but, BUT, many will vote to oust the incumbent Republican. It’s a fact that neither Independent’s nor TEA baggers have a choice beyond voting dem or rep but, BUT, many will vote to oust an incumbent. That’s my opinion and I believe it is correct. Beyond that, the Indies and Baggies are, with no Party, no focus, just waifs wandering the political forest. They will take out some incumbents along the way. That is the best I can hope for. A vote against an incumbent is a vote against the Corpocracy, IMO. I believe the Repubs will regain their base, including baggers, come 2012, with the Corpocracy in full charge. No hope for me there.

Marysdude, Beck and the Baggers started out on two different, separate paths. I’m not sure Beck is that close to the baggers YET but they are surely warming up to him. If, as you say, the TEA Baggers are Beck’s force of willing idots then perhaps he can teach them some political history over the next couple of years. Beck sez he was a Republican with Libertarian leanings. I believe him and sense that from his delivery. He gave the GOP CPAC some hard words.
I’m not sure if the Bagger’s place blame, as you say, “government for losing jobs, when it was obviously their corporate sponsors who have wasted those jobs. They imagine a time of return of middle class dominance in America by chanting against the only hope for that return. They do not realize that their corporate sponsors are the cause of the huge migration of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy few. they are too ignorant to see that they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.” When people talk of government it’s hard to know if they are really talking about the corpocracy. I find it impossible to discriminate the two. You may be correct that the TEA Party will go along with the Corpocracy so long as they have their limited issues addressed, big government and high taxes primarily. This is what beats the hell out of me all the time. Either folks don’t project that the Corpocracy is the problem or they really believe that some fringe changes in government will improve things to a point they can live with. For some reason, PC, a non-conspiratorial attitude, dunno, but many folks believe the Corpocracy is the problem but address their problems to the government. Dumb as a rock, IMO.
Let’s be clear. The corporate elites and governments around the world conspired to establish a ‘world’ government for trade, in violation of a sovereign US and the Constitution. Anti-trust was rejected for monopolization. Trade agreements spelled out our immigration policy (breech a federal law, who cares). The TEA Party and all should understand that big biz doesn’t care if the middle class does well or not. They have no need to go beyond the bottom line. Cheap labor is their friend, indeed their deity. There is no moral/ethical boundary the corpocracy will support. For instance. When Phil Gram (Graham?) put the fix in the 2002 Commodities Futures Modernization Act do you think he acted solely unto himself? Exactly who was he trying to help through his actions? Where was the outcry from his peers? How quickly he was sucked up by UBS. These folks come from the corpocracy into government and when forced out of government they return to the corpocracy. They have the best government money can buy . . but the people are shut out. Shut out of Article V, shut out of 3rd Parties, shut out of any debate: NAFTA, NAU, WTO, crisis stimulus sending, etc.
Gergle, interesting post on John Adams. A randy dude it seems, but it makes my point. From WIKI: “There were actually four separate laws making up what is commonly referred to as the “Alien and Sedition Acts”
1. The Naturalization Act (officially An Act to Establish a Uniform Rule of Naturalization; ch. 54, 1 Stat. 566) extended the duration of residence required for aliens to become citizens to 14 years. Enacted June 18, 1798, with no expiration date, it was repealed in 1802.
2. The Alien Friends Act (officially An Act Concerning Aliens; ch. 58, 1 Stat. 570) authorized the president to deport any resident alien considered “dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States.” It was activated June 25, 1798, with a two year expiration date.
3. The Alien Enemies Act (officially An Act Respecting Alien Enemies; ch. 66, 1 Stat. 577) authorized the president to apprehend and deport resident aliens if their home countries were at war with the United States of America. Enacted July 6, 1798, and providing no sunset provision, the act remains intact today as 50 U.S.C. § 21–24. At the time, war was considered likely between the U.S. and France.
4. The Sedition Act (officially An Act for the Punishment of Certain Crimes against the United States; ch. 74, 1 Stat. 596) made it a crime to publish “false, scandalous, and malicious writing” against the government or its officials. It was enacted July 14, 1798, with an expiration date of March 3, 1801 (the day before Adams’ presidential term was to end). “
Adams was a pisser fer shure. One of the most outspoken ‘activist’ yet when he wielded power he tried to shut them all up. This is one time that Beck has failed to tell the complete story, relating to a stint on the fact that Adam’s free speech was protected, no matter how vile it may have seemed. Adams clearly overreached on this issue as President. Thanks for that info gergle. I attended the big DC TEA Party rally last fall. There all day and didn’t witness a single incident that was out of bounds, IMO. IMO, if someone does commit an act of violence or acts out in some unacceptable way because of something they heard or saw relating to political activism, then so what. Doesn’t make the ‘activist’ guilty of anything. If people aren’t smart enough to handle political activism that is not the ‘activist’ fault, shouldn’t affect the activists free speech. I don’t think I’m in the minority when saying we want to keep government from tinkering with our free speech rights at this point in the game. Maybe after the corpocracy has left the scene, etc.
Bills, as with John Adams, you can always find folks that will take the far left or far right on an issue. That’s free speech, live with it. Here is the url on fishing:
Excerpt from the url: “The Obama administration has ended public input for a federal strategy that could prohibit U.S. citizens from fishing some of the nation’s oceans, coastal areas, Great Lakes, and even inland waters.”
A subjective and sensitive issue for sure. For example, I and many others are concerned about overfishing by the commercial fisheries. BUT, I don’t want anything done about it until Obama, wealth distribution, and the corpocracy are long gone from the scene. I’m at a point where I don’t want any laws passed, changed or deleted until we achieve REAL reform of government. Reason: I cite the poll where 78% of the public don’t trust the government to do the right thing. 78%, that’s darn nigh everybody! Net neutrality may indeed be a good thing but not at this time, don’t trust em to do the right thing. Healthcare reform – same. No celebration about that – just some subjectivity applied to the matter. Were the corpocracy gone I might vote for government run healthcare. Right now, I’d vote for the status quo, don’t trust em.
You wrote: “The only way I can see that point of view is to assume a deep hate for everyone. You really think it is a good thing to bash immigrants.” We’ve been through these words before, bills. There are right ways and wrong ways to do healthcare, immigration and other issues. I want status quo on HC for the reasons stated. First up, those who have critical HC situations are being treated, to some degree, IMO. For a middle class where wages have declined for the last decade, we can’t afford ever increasing HC cost. While a major priority, folks have to pay the rent, mortage, education, insurance, etc which are increasing in costs as well. I am one of the 80% that don’t trust government to do the right thing. Stems from corpocracy, crisis spending, unsustainable promises by government, wealth redistribution, government takeover syndrome, etc.
Same line of reasoning for immigration. Let’s try to start out sensible. Illegal immigration is illegal. There is a federal law against entering without going through the proper channels. The corpocracy (Regan) gave amnesty to some 4M and promised border control. Some 30 years later, nothing has changed and the corpocracy wants amnesty for another 10-20M.
From numbersUSA: “Over the past 20 years, the United States has granted legal permanent residence (green cards) to an average of more than 1 million persons per year:
In terms of sheer numbers, in 2006, the United States took as many immigrants as Italy, the United Kingdom, Germany, Japan, Austria, France, and Australia combined.1 Those nations have a combined population of 410 million, compared to 300 million for the United States.
One type of work visa is the H-1B, commonly used in the high-tech industry. The H-1B allows a maximum stay of 6 years. Another type is the H-2A temporary agricultural worker visa. When a person obtains a work visa, that person is issued an Employment Authorization Document by a U.S. government agency known as United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).
Below is the number of new Employment Authorization Documents (EADs) issued by the United States issued for each of the last five years. The agency that issues the EAD does so under three categories: new, replacement and renewal. The numbers below represent only the new EAD cards issued.
2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
673,717 675,231 682,160 854,186 912,735
Source: USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services), a division of the Department of Homeland Security. New I-765 cards issued 2004-2008.
Work visas often last more than 1 year, so over time the number of foreign born temporarily working in the United States builds up to millions of persons.”

Excerpt from NumbersUSA: “Chain migration was recklessly put into our immigration system 50 years ago. At first glance it seems relatively harmless as it allows immigrants to bring in not only their spouse and minor children but also their brothers, sisters and adult children. But that starts a chain that cannot be stopped. Each of those adult relatives can bring in his/her spouse, leading to the mother-in-law, father-in-law, brother-in-law and sister-in-law. All of that leads to the immigration of the Anchor Immigrant’s cousins, aunts, uncles and the in-laws of the in-laws of the in-laws. “
There are anchor babies. There are more than 20 types of temporary work visas. Something like 50% of graduate students are foreign born. These folks may check in but there is not checkout process. Once in, nobody has the authority to ask a person if they are legal. Immigration is driving the population growth in a nation of 300 plus million people.
Does this sound a bit over the top? What is the rational for all this immigration? As usual, everything, every issue reverts to the Corpocracy. Their rational? Cheap labor . And, it goes beyond that. With the global economy the corpocracy is using cheap labor to drive down the middle class worker wages to what end? More cheap labor. So, at a time when something like 20% of workers are unemployed or underemployed, during the period of the ‘greatest recession’ and ‘jobless recovery’, declining wages, unaffordable education, and while paying the bill for HC and education for the immigrants we are expected to believe that ‘we are a righteous nation, bring me your poor, your political activists’, etc. If someone chooses to believe this BS go for it. I see it as nothing less than an invasion perpetrated and perpetuated by the corpocracy. An invasion and nobody can ask if anyone is legal.
How to tell the Corpocracy from government? Watch who stands to knock down Az’s immigration law. That will be your Corpocracy at work, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 25, 2010 1:41 PM
Comment #299538

The Corpocracy wants immigration just like it is. They have a willing work force to exploit that cannot go to the authorities or join a union.
What the Arizona law will do is turn Arizona of 2010 into the Alabama of 1963. Already conventions are cancelling and a wide range of civil rights groups are making plans. Ordering policemen,threatening policemen, to demand to see the papers of anyone that looks or speaks slightly different is a Gestopo tactic and has no place in a decent America.It will not stand. The Republicans of Arizona that jammed this through will be remembered in history along with Bull Conner and George Wallace.
One thing the law has done is to move immigration reform off the back burner in congress. What is going to pass includes conditional amnesty, as any realistic solution must.
My wife is a naturalized citizen. At her swearing in ceremony a speaker from the State Dept explainned to everyone that after the ceremony they were not reguired to carry any documentation of citizenship and if any authority asked them to show it, they should just tell them,”I am an American citizen…..PERIOD !”This got a round of applause.This applies to Arizona.

Posted by: bills at April 26, 2010 10:04 AM
Comment #299540

bills, if we are allowed to walk around ‘naked’ how can law and order be maintained among the citizenry? Everyone must carry some ID, would you not agree? Suppose a few million Americans showed up on your doorstep in the PI looking for jobs in the sugar cane trade, free education and HC. Are you alright with that?

Do you have a number you would associate with being ‘too much’ immigration into the US? Agree, the corpocracy luvs the status quo. If the border is contolled and illegals become citizens wages can only go up from there. So, rest assured, the border will stay open to drugs and illegals irregardless of the ‘promises’. Good business.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 26, 2010 10:47 AM
Comment #299543

The border barrier has been progressing and continues to be built under the Obama administration, though, with the Great Recession and already high deficits, the money allocated has been cut from what was budgeted, but, not for the sake of promoting illegal immigration.

Bill Maher makes a good point, that critics want spending to continue and increase on their government backed projects but, deficits and debt to go down. It is a contradiction and disconnect in citizen’s minds.

I have for years argued that the border barrier is the first and necessary step to stemming illegal immigration and imported criminal elements. It takes an enormous amount of time and money to build and maintain a 2000 mile border barrier. The TV and Internet generation want what they want and they want it in the span of a 30 minute sit-com or minute’s google search. That is not how the real world works.

I am an enormous critic of our federal government and its deficiencies and back-asswards priorities. But, unlike many other critics, I recognize that our nation is still functioning, we have not been invaded by a foreign nation, our currency is still good on the international market, and the jobs and economy situation is improving according to the latest statistics. All of which means, our government is functioning very well at many of its responsibilities and obligations, despite its enormous failures otherwise.

I advocate voting out incumbents as a way of improving our government and Congressional results going forward. What I refuse to support is calls for secession, overthrow of our government, or assassination or other illegal treatment of our government officials and workers. It is after all, OUR government, which means we are responsible for creating and maintaining it through our past and present voting behavior and decisions. Hippocrates of Ancient Greece might well advise Americans today, “Voters, Heal ThySelf, before attempting to remedy the government you installed through democratic elections.” And he would be as wise today as he was 3000 years ago.

Posted by: David R. Remer at April 26, 2010 11:21 AM
Comment #299549

If you want to come work in the sugar cane fields,have at it.Sorry,hard to stop laughing.There a joke here about a professional that is emmigrating to the the US. His friends ask what his job is going to be. He answers,”CPA”. They say,” accountant.” He says,”No,California..Picking Apples.”Point is there are lots of highly qualified people willing to sacrifice a lot for opportunity. Immigrants add a good deal to the US economy. Your point that they get used to drive down labor standards is right. They are not the ones doing it. How about some real labor law enforcment. How about some teeth in what laws we do have. When an employer beats his help out of OT or minimum wage don’t just fine him or squeak a small settlement out of him the lawyers get most of,put him in jail as the thief he is. When the cayote brings in day labor to strip asbestos without protection, put him and whoever hired him in prison for assault for profit. How about passing the Employee Free Choice Act and once again give workers some power to negotiate wages and conditions whether they are from Arizona or Mars.
Attacking immigrants has always been the deversion used to quell populist anger when the corportist have trashed the economy. Its a tactic that was used on the Irish,Germans,Italians, Chinese,whoever. The people responsible are sitting in boardrooms, not climbing fences.

The fence is a waste of a billion and a half dollars of taxpayer money. 12’ tall and easily assailable. Remember the Berlin Wall? The Russians were useing live ammo and roughly 5000 people managed to cross.I suppose some folks are getting some work out of it but as a barrier it is near silly.

Posted by: bills at April 26, 2010 12:48 PM
Comment #299564

bills, YOU obviously don’t understand plumbing. Restrict the pipe size, and you reduce the flow. The border barrier was NEVER touted as a single proven action to stem all illegal immigration. It was touted as, and has proven to be, a major impediment to the numbers of illegal immigrants coming across the border where the border barrier exists. It is even more effective where the barrier is monitored and surveiled.

It works by driving the cost of coming across significantly higher. And YOU should know, that the higher the cost of a service, the less customers there will be for that service. It also works by permitting more effective interdiction by creating far fewer crossing points. It hasn’t yet reached its potential, precisely because of the plumbing analogy. IF you build a dam 3/4 of the way across a flowing stream, the water will move the 1/4 portion still open. Once completed, it will very likely stem 90% or more of the flow of traffic that came across illegally prior to San Diego’s first border barrier having been erected, which was the beginning of the barrier, which proved highly effective for San Diego.

Thank you though for the comment which demonstrates that Lefties can hold ideological points of view devoid of reality just like many on the Right.

Posted by: David R. Remer at April 26, 2010 2:11 PM
Comment #299583

Roy, the corpocracy is a done deal. Corporate pocketbooks own both political parties and control most of the legislation by that means.

This round of illegal immigration is also a done deal.

The fence is like the cops, after the fact. It is purely a political diversion designed to make the people think the government is doing something.

The people know better. They know that illegal immigration could have been stopped. They know that it can still be stopped. They know that the drug wars raging in Mexico and along our border could have been avoided. But, the voice of the majority is made impotent by the two party controlled election process.

There is a new voting block controlling the election process and they are pro big corporations. They have a great propensity for ignoring the problems being created by concentrating on the profit side of the issue.

When both political parties act in unison to thwart the will of the majority of the people, the people are finding out that there is little they can or are willing to do about it. IMO, this is the true meaning of dependent on the government.

I would like to think that voting out incumbents will make a difference but I doubt that it will slow the corpocracy in any significant way. In America, money is, by far, the most effective, not free, free speech.

Posted by: jlw at April 26, 2010 6:52 PM
Comment #299594

jlw said: “The people know better. They know that illegal immigration could have been stopped. They know that it can still be stopped. They know that the drug wars raging in Mexico and along our border could have been avoided. But, the voice of the majority is made impotent by the two party controlled election process.”

I have to disagree with a couple of your assertions, jlw.

First, when you say, “The people know better.”, it is an unqualified all inclusive statement which is obviously not true. Some of the people know better on any given issue. Not all.

And that leads to my second disagreement. Illegal immigration remains unsolved because the majority of the American people are not of one mind on the issue. A great many sympathize with illegals that have come here, a great many more are illegals or descendants of illegals, and more are employers and beneficiaries of illegals in the U.S.A. Then there is the portion of the population which does not sympathize with illegals here or coming here. But, there has never been a clear mandate from the people on this issue.

Similarly, on the drugs issue. The American people have been very divided on this issue whether to decriminalize, legalize, or step offensive and costly enforcement efforts even more.

It is not the voice of the majority has been rendered impotent by the Parties. It is that there never has been and still ISN’T a majority mandate from the voters on either of these issues in terms of the policy to rectify these problems.

Even the most obvious and logical of proposals, like a border barrier, is opposed adamantly by Leftists, and it is absolutely and fundamentally the required first step to getting control of the illegal immigration problem. Bills here on WB is primary example. The notion of a common sense on resolution to these issues is as elusive as a definitive proscription for religious choice, or the abortion issue.

Total freedom and individual independence in a society is defined as anarchy, when carried to their furthest extent. One of the differences between today and the 1950’s is a lack of indoctrination today, that was prevalent in public schools and media in the 1950’s, which permitted a broad consensus of common sense on a host of issues. To get that back, America would have to establish a national educational policy with national standards that proffered a Pro-America indoctrination of at least two generations, to have the desired effect. That indoctrination could be rationally and empirically based (the best form) or take the form of propaganda based on revisionist history and false education. To be sure, in America today, you could not find a majority consensus on even these two choices if they were forced onto a ballot.

The kind of leadership that will buck the lack of consensus and forge a path toward success based on reality and empirical plausibility is getting harder to find in American politics and government and private institutions, and even harder to get majority support for. It was similar for the Greeks in Athens, Persia, and Babylon, prior to their passing into history, as with the Roman Empire as well.

America’s future as a sustainable democratically elected government and led society, is reaching old age in its adolescence as a democratic republic. And this is truly remarkable, given the enormous advancements in education and knowledge. But, education and knowledge, absent wisdom, is a foundation of sand awaiting a tsunami, which will inevitably sweep under any civilization. America survived the slavery and Civil War tsunami, it survived the Great Depression and WWII tsunami, and it survived the Civil Rights era.

But, those were times when wisdom was still recognized and revered by a majority of voters, educated to appreciate it, even if they had themselves not acquired it. We are in a very different time today, where preference and opinion are substituted for knowledge and wisdom, and given the same reverence and credence by large factions of the populace. Rigorous discipline of mind and thinking process thoroughly embedded in a broad and liberal education of science, arts, and humanities, were the order of yesterday. Not so today nearly as much. We now fast track specialists through our universities allowing them to skip history, classical literature and philosophy, and other humanity disciplines like sociology empirical non-ideological economics. And our high schools don’t even attempt such broad and liberal disciplines anymore.

All civilizations can be assessed for their durability based upon their educational systems or lack thereof. America’s is earning only a ‘C’ and ‘D’ grades in this regard, today, very shortly, absent a dramatic change, will accrue an ‘F’ for another ‘F’ailed civilization like the hosts of others that have gone before.

Posted by: David R. Remer at April 26, 2010 11:28 PM
Comment #299602


Questioning abuse of power and government corruption is patriotic.

However, the Tea Party need focus.

Perhaps the Tea Party should focus on these 10 major abuses (instead of getting distracted with the typical hot-button issues, such as prayer-in-public-schools; abortion; gun ownership rights; the pledge of allegience; flag burning; etc.)?
That’s not to say those issues aren’t important, but are they the most important issues?
Perhaps those issues are simply issues used to distract from more important issues?

Also, it seems like a mistake to me for the Tea Party to idolize Palin and Limbaugh.
Fans of Palin should consider this audio transcript.

At any rate, the voters have the government that they elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect, … , and re-elect, at least, until repeatedly rewarding failure, and repeatedly rewarding FOR-SALE, incompetent, and corrupt incumbent politicians with 90% re-election rates finally becomes too painful.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 27, 2010 9:27 AM
Comment #299605

Devoid of reality? I suppose you will get huffy if I asked you to back up your numbers. What reduction? Sure,if sections get well patrolled ,crossers will move elsewhere. This is true fence or no fence.More likely the Border Patrol will use the fence as an excuse to patrol less.Again,an estimated 5000 Germans managed to cross the Berlin Wall,heavily garded, with the Russians useing deadly force. The fence is a waste of money. Better results would come from employer enforcement,more agents etc.

Posted by: bills at April 27, 2010 10:31 AM
Comment #299607


More on fence. Whether its cutting down on overall nembers is doubtful. There is no doubt that it is it is killing people. This is a pretty good piece of journalism.,9171,1816488-4,00.html#ixzz0mJPPfubs

We may see a comprehensive immigration reform law in the next year. It will by necessity include conditional amnesty and a guest worker program at least for agriculture. Its also likely to include tougher enforcement measures and no doubt,more money thrown down this fence rathole.

Posted by: bills at April 27, 2010 11:03 AM
Comment #299628

bills, sorry, but your comments lack any awareness of what is actually taking place at the border barrier, where surveillance cameras, and seismic detectors, are providing Border Patrols with alarms, allowing them to focus their interdiction efforts where crossings are being attempted, through, over, or under the border barrier.

Your comment does have one thing right, where the border barrier is patrolled and monitored, the traffic moves where it is not patrolled or monitored. And the reason for this is obvious: patrolling and monitoring the barrier reduces the likelihood of a successful crossing and drives up the cost of crossing. The very arguments I made previously based on empirical data and evidence.

Posted by: David R. Remer at April 27, 2010 3:30 PM
Comment #299660

David, excellent insight in your responses. d.a.n, your post is spot on as well. Beck devotes an hour each evening addressing these abuses. This PM he advised that tomorrow the congress will vote to make Puerto Rico the 51st state. Did you know that? Where is the debate? Should raise the Dem constituency for 2012, if they don’t blow it. Also, put up some eye wash showing how the corpocracy plans to turn climate change into a $10T business. Involves Goldman Sachs, Obama administration, Gore and a ton of others. He’s going to cover that issue tomorrow evening.

jlw, spot on with your reply as well. Our hope, IMO, lies with a 3rd party with a different political attitude.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 27, 2010 6:48 PM
Comment #299672

I agree that the TEA Party is less effective as it is, at present, unfocused on unprioritized issues. The movement started from Ron Paul wanting to pass out ‘tea bags’ to congresspersons. Many were turned off by Bush’s big government agenda. Then Freedom Works took the helm and has done much to pull the grassroots movement to the right, the GOP right. IMO, swimming with Palin and Limbaugh demeans the credibility of the movement. In the end I suspect it will lead to the GOP getting their ‘mojo’ back in 2012.

However, by diluting the socialist agenda of the administration through a big vote out incumbent action this fall the TEA baggers will have helped in fighting the Corpocracy. Yet, even a VOID movement will not lead to reform of government. New folks vote into office are not focused or organized in any way to take on the corpocracy or try to reform government. The Corpocracy will be left to wage full scale war on the newcomers, either play ball with them or don’t expect any $upport for reelection.

That’s why we need to look long and hard at the big picture, define a strategy to reform government and get on with it. Just as d.a.n notes the TEA Party plays strongly to conservative social issues. A real reform party should address only reform issues, void of all social issues. Focus laser tight on reform and this would attract a larger voting bloc. You would need enough votes to control congress. At that point start working on abolishing corporate personhood and money is free speech. If the SC votes 5-4 or 6-3 then do a little judicial activism and add three or four positions to the SC and spin the bottle again, etc. There has not been a better time to start a 3rd party since the great depression, IMO. And, with Wall St. in the dock, no better time to address corporate personhood and money is free speech. Finish up with a little campaign finance reform and we would have removed the money influence and provided for free and clean elections. It’s not that hard, more time consuming than anything else. Are you ready for another ten or twenty years of the staus quo? I agree with David that our 200 years of democracy may come to a screeching half, as history has taught us. Isn’t it time to reclaim our Republic and start anew, correct some wrongs and ensure our grandkids have some liberty and freedom in their lives?

Otherwise, we have the Socialistic-Corpocratic government we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 27, 2010 10:12 PM
Comment #299679

Roy, corporate money is no match for a wide anti-incumbent movement. Corporations can go broke funding candidates, but if voters remain dissatisfied with government results and use their vote to demonstrate it, corporate money loses its power to sway legislation and elections.

In a democratically elected government, voters have the final say and ultimate power over government if they choose to exercise it, and money will be no match for growing numbers of anti-incumbent votes.

Posted by: David R. Remer at April 28, 2010 4:20 AM
Comment #299691

We’ve talked about re-building the tower of ‘Babel’ in this country. As David posted, through the lack of ‘propaganda’, education, assimilation and through revisionist history the nation is unable to reach a consensus on any issue of any import. Schools crying for yet more money and some don’t graduate half their kids while supporting teaching a second language. Some Rep in the upper Midwest complaining about Nazi’ism in Az while that same Rep is calling for the national Guard to control crime in his streets.

A VOID action, while very helpful, is not a solution to our tower of Babel politics. I believe that ginning up a 3rd party that people can trust, founded in laws to prevent it from ever being co-opted, targeting just the few issues required to reform government, and void of all social issues is they way to overcome unwieldy diverse political opinion in the population. If you could pull people together around just the core of issues required for reform of government then we have a good chance at reform in spite of the tower of Babel syndrome.

Otherwise, we have the Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 28, 2010 10:27 AM
Comment #299822

Corpocracy on the Move

The gulf oil spill has been determined to be 500,000 barrels a day. In Britain and the EU oil rigs have an automatic shut off in case of a catastrophe. But, thanks to GW and the oil the patch gang we didn’t need such stuff on our rigs.

The Senate will be voting on a HR2499, “non-binding resolution” around 8pm this evening to force a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ vote on Puerto Rican statehood. Beck made us aware of this a couple of days ago and says it a political ploy to gain about 4M voters, most of whom will likely be democrats, for the 2012 election. PR became a territory in 1898. The folks get a lot of benies but pay no taxes. They were asked if they wanted statehood in 67, 93, and 98 and they voted no. This time the fix is in. They will be asked if they prefer the status quo. Most will vote ‘no’. Following that vote congress and the PR’n New Progressive Party will work to implement the ‘Tennessee’ plan. A plan by which Tenessee became a state. After a no vote, of course, something will have to be done. The Prog Party will elect delegates, vote on statehood, draft a state constitution and apply for statehood and head to Washington and demand they be seated. Congress will then hold a 2nd vote as to state hood, full independence or modified commonwealth. Beck believes Dems want to pick up 4M PR voters plus 2 Senators and 2 House members, 4M voters from the illegals, 1 extra vote in the House for DC, and 4M voters by allowing convicted felons to vote.
The Dems plan to bring a farcial effort on immigration before Congress to try and solidify the Latino vote before the mid-terms. They know they can’t pass an amnesty bill but can put up a good political show .
Beck thinks this bashing of Goldman Sachs is a smokescreen for the ‘big scam’. This evening Beck spent an hour on how the Corpocracy is morphing to ‘Crime, Inc.’ Says Climate Change is worth about a 10 trillion dollar scam. Tools needed by the Corpocracy:
.An Exchange
.A few laws on Climate Change (CC)
.Cover for the scam
Investor/Players: Joyce Foundation looking for cash. On Board were Valerie Jarrett and Obama, Carbon exchange set up here.
Corps GIM ? comprised of Gore and Goldman Sachs personnel. GCS ? buys 10% of the exchange.
Franklin Rains ? – CEO of Fannie Mae, makes 90M in bonuses in 5 yrs.
Technology – Patent in 2006, the day after takeover by Dems.
Laws: Cap and Trade, behind schedule but still in the works.
Cover: Rains leaves Freddie for Enterprise Community Partners (‘everbody needs a house’ for a business model.)
Scenario: Enterprise, with Goldman Sachs and ACORN members, put $1.1M into the Joyce Foundation, associated with TIDES (George Soros)
The above are tied in with Emerald Cities, started in Dec 2009. Board members represent unions, labor groups, social justice grps, etc. Garry Hudson, SEIU – Phaedra Lincoln, a Van Jones associate, Jack Hyatt, Art Lujan, AFLCIO – and Doris Coup ?, AFLCIO and Enterprise Community Partners associate.
The carbon exchange will trade on the Chicago stock market as CCE I believe is correct.
The so-called Wizzard behind this scam is Joel Rogers, a Univ of Colorado Professor. Works with a group called COWS. He started the ‘New Party’ to get candidate Obama elected. Started the Apollo Alliance which wrote the stimulus bill. On the board is/was Van Jones. Rogers also started Emerald Cities.
Beck says it starts with the Apollo Alliance and ends with the Apollo Alliance. He complains that a bunch of socialist radicals are setting up to scam the public to the tune of $10T.
I agree with him 100%. But, I am somewhat jaded I guess. I knew when Obama was elected we would be switching from the oil patch gang “no shut off valves’ to the Chicago Daly Machine. To me this is business as it has been as long as I’ve been around, some 70 years. I do think trying to hit $10T out of the park is a bit much for the Chicago mob. I jotted this info down pdq so it may not be 100%. Gotta give Glenn’s staff an ‘A’ for their ability to quickly ferret out info and tie it together. They are spot on with this one as usual, IMO.

Otherwise, we have the Socialist-Progressive-Corpocracy we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 29, 2010 8:14 PM
Comment #299828

Roy, 500,000 barrels a day is a bit much. I think you meant 5000 barrels a day.

Posted by: MAG at April 29, 2010 10:30 PM
Comment #299832

Even a bit high for ‘gallons’ per day as it seems most reports are settling in around 210,000 gallons per day. A ‘great recession’ type of environmental disaster for sure.

The Corpocracy is so corrupt and yet people seem to tolerate it right up till their death in many cases. Nobody to speak for the 25M birds in the oils path. The rancher who made the front page that was killed in Az a while back, his family had wrote a letter to the Fed’s ?? asking that something be done and now the guvies are coming out of the woodwork trying to stop the AZ immigration bill.

I don’t know if Cantor or Webb will be up for re-election this term but I’ll get a chance to vote against some incumbents, be they big’uns or lil’uns.


Posted by: Roy Ellis at April 29, 2010 11:06 PM
Comment #300207

Move over TEA Party, here comes the Progressives. The Progressives, with Van Jones in tow, will rally in DC. “We know from the health care fight that the corporate stranglehold on Washington makes winning progressive change hard. At “America’s Future Now,” progressives are gathering to ramp up for the next big fights—financial reform, creating jobs, climate change, immigration and more—and to take on the big corporate interests that threaten our democracy and progressive change.”

Posted by: Roy Ellis at May 7, 2010 11:13 AM
Post a comment