Third Party & Independents Archives

I don’t know much about Texas and will take your word for most of this (or let Texans dispute it). But there really is no requirement to put up signs advertising the stimulus. I always found this kind of governmental boasting a little distasteful. Maybe they should print a second sign indicating how long it would take to pay the money back.

I remember years ago when Jane Byrne replaced the elder Richard Daley. She spend a pile of taxpayer money painting her name (as mayor) on lots of signs, buildings, garbage trucks and snow plows, but when the snow fell she still wasn’t able to keep the streets clear.

Christine, so you think tax payers should NOT be informed about how their tax dollars are spent, especially if the other Party is responsible for spending them, eh?

An interesting view, and convenient in this case, your being a Republican defender.

787 billion dollars and a few thousand dollars informing tax payers is too great an expense. More than 2 billion dollars received from Democrats and Federal taxes to rebuild and maintain Texas Roads, and put Texans to work, and a few thousand dollars is too great an expense for the Texas Roads Commission to inform the public.

Yes, Christine I find that argument very convenient, indeed.

But, there is another story here. The absolute STUPIDITY of the Democrats to not include in the Stimulus Bill a requirement of recipient States to advertise how these dollars are working for their citizens. FDR would never have missed such an opportunity on a WPA and PWA program.

Those who don’t know their history will not learn from it.

I thought there was supposed to be a government website were it says where all the money is spent??? I would rather it be placed there. I don’t need signs, and trust me in ohio I see plenty of them, telling me that the dollars went here or there. If I cared, I would look. I usually care more why projects don’t go through then if they do. Which eventually leads to where the money has been spent. But personally, let it spread through word of mouth and a website. If the construction works like it, tell them about it. Then they can go on and tell the community about it through the waitresses, hotels, and etc.

kudos, your comment seems to subscribe to the belief that the public is well-informed of where their tax dollars are going and make rational and informed voting decisions based on that well-informed state. Which if course, is preposterous.

Texans are loving all this construction taking place creating jobs and generating economic activity. Try telling them the Stimulus Bill is paying for it, and they will call you a liar. The public is NOT well informed about where their tax dollars are going, and the government has a duty and obligation to inform them wherever and whenever possible and cost efficient precisely because democratically elected governments work best when the voters are well informed.

I presume you would agree with the last part of my last sentence, but, I find no evidence of that in your comment.

It’s hard to see the VOID catching on. What could catch on is a third party. Not some libertarian third party but a grass roots centrist party with a platform of pragmatism. The time is right. The democrats would need to maintain viability as it is easy for the R’s to villify one party but villifying two would expose them for what they are.

David, Repubs here in Colorado are trying to get the stimulus project signs taken down. If one had not seen signs at so many highway projects for so many years in so many states one could think the stimulus signs were a new and expensive means of communication. Alas they are not, They are actually SOP. What is new… well at least in this case… is the attack by repubs upon getting factual information out to the public.

David,

So nothing in Houston? I guess the Democratic mayor pissed off Perry (gov), since he’s running for governor. I think there are some Metro (transit authority)(rail and HOV lane) projects that are stimulus related.

This reminds me of the early eighties in Houston. The commercial and residential construction market dried up in the wake of the S&L crisis.

While there is still some commercial and residential work, public projects are sustaining many engieering, architectural and construction companies.

I moved to Dallas in the eighties, which for some reason seemed largely unaffected by the S&L crisis. I recall even working for a developer who had several members go to jail for land flips.

Schwamp, I felt so strongly about a 3rd party and the time being right that I put up a website, republicsentry.com, to promote “a third party. Not some libertarian third party but a grass roots centrist party with a platform of pragmatism”. Stresses populist centrist reform, presents a pure reform agenda, no social issues, established rules to prevent the party from being ever being taken over by the money influence, and allows party member to serve as oversight for their elected and appointed government officials. A complete zero. After two years the site gets 25-100 readers a day but no debate/discussion or any act of support.

David, why are state’s receiving ANY support from the federal government? Things are completely upside down from the what the Founder’s proposed. Remember small federal government with limited powers? All the rest being left for the State’s, etc. Today, if the State’s try to resist the fed they are given an ultimatum, ‘do this or we won’t fund this or that for you’. ‘Give us more control or we will take away something from you’. What has happened is exactly what the Founder’s tried to prevent through the Constitution.

Incrementally, our Republic has been deconstructed to the point where we are approaching a pure Socialist government. It can only end badly, in anarchy, if left to run its course.
Political parties are mentioned no where in the Constitution but, unfortunately the two party system rules our government, not we the people. The two party system is a conglomerate of corporations and career oriented politicians slicing and dicing as they see fit.
Any hope for a turn around requires campaign finance reform. We must fight fire with fire. That reform can only be brought about by a 3rd party with a different political attitude such as that presented by the Republic Sentry Party. Corporate Personhood and Money is Free Speech law must be abolished. Donations should only be accepted from INDIVIDUALS and made directly to the IRS. The IRS would account, bundle and disburse to the FEC. The FEC would plan and disburse to parties or candidates based on some rational. Following that, other needed reforms could be carried out under the banner of free elections.

Otherwise, let’s send some of your tax dollars to Texas. And, the other State’s need a bailout too. Also, Greece needs a few bil at this point, as does Ireland, Portugal, Spain and others. I hear on TV that we need to spend lots’ to keep the Haitian’s from coming to the State’s. Yet we have open borders for Mexican’s. Por que? Do the Haitian’s not work as hard as the Mexican’s, or do we have some little (NAU) agreement with Mexico that we can’t know about? Did you vote for open borders, NAU, NAFTA, WTO, IMF, Corporate Personhood, Money is Free Speech, Globalized economy, the coming $20T federal budget, lifelong debt for the grandkids? Or, are you just along for the ride?

Isn’t it wise to act now to restore the Republic before we are all in the streets and subject to having the Republic turn into a statist mini-China or worse. It is unsustainable: federal debt, public debt, SS, Medicare, healthcare, ad infinitum.
Otherwise - - -

Texas Republicans remind me of another entity from Texas. Hide the problems, ignore reality, tell lies, fabricate the numbers, line your pockets.

The other one was called Enron. That didn’t turn out so well. Probably the governments fault.

Schwamp said: “It’s hard to see the VOID catching on.”

With 92% of the public polled indicating Congressional incumbents don’t deserve to be reelected, it is pretty easy to see voting out incumbents catching on, and it is.

There is talk of Tea Party going through the steps in Nevada to form an actual Third Party. Sen. Reid couldn’t be happier and welcomes their drawing votes away from his Republican challengers.

gergle, that list was only partial, covering A thru D. A list representing a couple billion dollars is too lengthy to have quoted.

Here is a list of Houston area Stimulus projects.

The high speed rail project may be receiving Stimulus money, but, the federal allocations for it were made before the Stimulus Bill passed under regular DOT budget, as far as I can tell.

Roy asked: “David, why are state’s receiving ANY support from the federal government?”

Because our Constitution established a federal government while preserving the integrity of State and local governments for one thing. And because the States and their citizens are members of the federal government, and partnerships have been formed between these governments to insure the needs of the American people and nation are met.

Trying to argue against the growth and changes in our government and society since the Constitution was ratified, and against the Amendments and S.C. rulings which permit these partnerships is like a parent arguing about having to pay more for their child’s needs now that their child is 16 instead of 6 months old. Time marches on and change is a fundamental component of time. Our nation grew, and our Constitution and law grew with it. That is the answer to your question.

j2t2 said: “David, Repubs here in Colorado are trying to get the stimulus project signs taken down.”

To be expected. Remember their mission since the people threw them out of power, to bring Democrats down, even if it takes destroying the nation by halting its systems and government processes. Of course, they don’t see their efforts as destroying the nation, which is precisely what makes them so very dangerous.

Republicans, if you listen to their elected’s rhetoric, don’t believe in an informed electorate. They don’t believe in democracy for obvious reasons (it doesn’t insure they remain in power), and they don’t believe their “superior” rhetoric about morality, country, flag, religion, and the unfortunate having reaped the just deserts of their actions, should ever be removed from power.

They do believe in American bounty to be exploited until it is no more as part of manifest destiny. They do believe profits should subjugate all other values except their family, and the environmental destruction resulting provides a natural habitat for the poor and uneducated at a cost they should be able to afford.

In other words, in ideology and deed, the GOP is the Party of Ebeneezer Scrooge before Scrooge achieves his 3 lessons in “enlightened self-interest” defined in Adam Smith’s Theory of Moral Sentiment and coined by DeToqueville later, no doubt as a result of reading Adam Smith’s work.

Roy, if the States fail, so does the United States. You comments argue against the word United, in United States. Are your comments subscribing to the rhetoric of the Secessionists, these days?

Most unbelievable, funny, sad, scary situation I can imagine. We are not that far from all out anarchy, and it could happen real fast, while folks are concered about putting up political signs. Carrys me away to ole Virginny. Better yet, a little Southern Comfort, Old Turkey.

A simple analogy David. Suppose you got married to a beautiful creature and later found out the marriage certificate showed you married to the meanest whore on the block. I guess you would forgo your beautiful creature and just go along to get along, right?

Two wrongs, or multiple wrongs don’t make a right, etc. Corporate Personhood, put into law under a cloud should be abolished irregardless of how many years its been on the books.

The Corpocracy doesn’t buy in to your thinking. For instance, anti-trust has been around since ____ and occasionally involved up until the 80’s. Same laws are on the bokks now, as then, but where has anti-trust been since the 80’s? But, wait. Obama, our favorite populist, is rushing to middle, prior to the 10 electios, proclaiming he will, maybe, perhaps, consider the ‘too big to fail’.

Also, note that Shumer and Hollis will, might, perhaps, consider some anti-SC measures.

Also, that Bernake, Shumer, Dood will, might, perhaps, like to consider some financial regulations.

Also that Obama could possibly, might, will likely, perhaps consider cracking down on lobbyist. Even as lobbying expenditures were up 5% in 09.

Also, Obama is going to possibly, likely, might want to, consider making Anthem Blue Cross wait a few months before hiking insurance rates between 25 and 39%.

BS

Otherwise - -

Otherwise - -

David,

Thanks. Metro isn’t the high speed rail project, although it may participate through local projects, just a local rail system, bus system and other projects that aid mass transit, like HOV lanes. I think they also share in toll road revenue, in some instances. It’s an area taxing authority, that can issue bonds.

THSRTC is the high speed rail corporation.

It’s called DART in Dallas.

Capital Metro in Austin,

and VIA or MTA in San Antonio.

David

It is an old political trick to show off spending. Taxpayers can go on line and read about how their money is being spent. There is no particular point in putting up posters.

Christine,

Given the idiocy surrounding fiscal responsibility being put out by yourself and other Republicans, it IS a political necessity. Advocating ignorance is not good for America. The tricks here are the American public. While turning tricks may be appealing to a Republican whore, it is hardly something a moral person would advocate.

I would think someone as yourself would advocate for things like transparency. In fact, I think you have. Why the change? You do realize the the healthcare debate has been widely publicized in newspapers and on the internet. Didn’t you make a big deal of the C-span thing? I guess there wasn’t any particular point to that either. Except hypocrisy.

Most people are not going to check a web site. Republicans lie that the stimulus funds are not putting anybody to work, but have to hide the fact that road projects (aka jobs) are paid for by stimulus funds. I fault the Democrats in Congress for not making it a law that a sign be put up wherever ARRA funds are used. It should be required to have a brightly colored, specifically designed sign with a logo. The Dem’s are just lousy at politics.
David Remer - You should read the New York Times Magaizine’s article last Sunday concerning the religious rights attempt to control the TX State Board of Education. Really scary. That includes textbook adoption, which as one of only 2 states that mandate statewide textbooks, controls to some degree textbooks throughout the nation.
Maybe that’s why 55% of the populace believes the Constitution established the country as a Christian nation.

Gergle

You might have to put the price tag on too. If I steal your wallet and give you back some of your money, should I put up a sign praising my generosity?

They wanted to widen the road near my house. I didn’t think they needed to do it, especially because it would require cutting down lots of trees and closing down some local businesses. Stimulus money brought the project back to life. They should probably put up a sign next to each of the stumps.

Rewriting history has become a major industry. Beck alludes to much propaganda out there touting Obama as a messiah figure and teachings that encourage the students to believe their elders are near stupid and unenlightened thinkers. I read ten years ago that Texas was a big player in that business.
Tomorrow, Beck will discuss how the Constitution and balance of powers are being thwarted by executive orders. Remember, NAFTA has not been ratified (unconstitutional) but operates on XO. Obama is expected to put the EPA in the CAP and Trade business through an XO soon. The SC has already put a law in place that mandates the EPA carry out cap and trade if deemed harmful to society. Thus, congress doesn’t have to take the heat and the voters have no say so, they just pay and pay and pay. Beck suggest the XO relegates our government to that of Rome, with an Emperor and a useless Senate.

A new book is out proving that Jefferson didn’t father a child with Hemmings. “In Defense of Thomas Jefferson” by William Hyland Jr. Says that the DNA that was taken only matches the Y chromosone of a dozen Jefferson males. He points the finger at Randolph, Jefferson’s brother who was in his 50’s and known to chase the slave women. I’m still a big fan of Jefferson. He recommended that every 20 years we should review our laws and set things straight, like Corporate Personhood. And, being a populist, Andy Jackson is a big favorite as well. Beck notes that President’s Day was initially set up for G. Washington but then, incrementalism took its course.

Only 1/3 of the stimulus money has been spent. Beck suggest that the remaining will be spent on the 12 elections.
If so the 12 elections should be beyond spectacular. What with stimulus money and money from foreign corporations legally buying TV time.

Good idea Cristine. A sign that reads this stump was cut and paid for with taxpayer dollars from Tx, La, Ga. Tn. Ny. Al. etc.

Roy, Beck is a Limbaugh wannabe. He also alludes to propaganda about Obama being evil reincarnate, but, does nothing to question such propaganda’s sources or motives.

If you are listening to Beck as gospel, your third party will not be pragmatic nor non-partisan. Beck is a hard core conservative pedaling GOP ideology with a Libertarian tint.

These psychoanalytic literary critics of political figures for a hidden political agenda fools a lot of the people a lot of the time, as being fair and reasonable. But, the truth is, most people are what they say they are, and act on their beliefs and priorities. Often the reality is just what it presents itself to be. A tree is actually a tree. And sometimes politicians do go into politics to make a positive difference in the lives of their fellow countryman and women. But, a psychoanalytic literary critic, cannot ever recognize such a person, just as Freud could not recognize a kindness as nothing more than a kindness which is its own reward.

Then again, Republicans trying to have Stimulus project Road signs removed in Colorado, does contain a deceptive motive and intent. Any time anyone attempts to hide simple facts and truth from the public, they become the enemy of democracy, which requires an informed electorate.

It is obvious from comments here the partisan blinders at work in opposing the electorate being more informed. The more barriers one can put between the public and information, the less informed that public will be. A road sign on the site of the project eliminates ALL barriers between the commuter and information as to how that project is being paid for. Putting the information on a government web site of which there are thousands, is to put many barriers between the commuter and the information as to how that project is being paid for.

Think about it, you critics and opposition to an informed electorate. Whether realized or not, such opposition subscribes in part, to the return of King George as ruler of these 50 colonies, as opposed to our Constitution based democratic republic. King George determined what his subjects should know and shouldn’t. It was the base of protection for his authoritarian rule.

In a democracy, except for national security sensitive information, information about government and its actions should be made available to the public in the most direct and efficiently obtained manner possible. Stimulus fund project signs meet that criteria. Very much as a toll booth informs commuters as to how the toll road is being paid for and whether, by the condition of the thoroughfare, that toll money is being well spent, or not.

I have been on a toll road that was not well maintained. I will never travel that toll road again. I suspect it was a privatized toll road, and not a government toll road, but, I did not research it, since I was never to travel it again. That toll road is a problem for those who choose to travel it, which no longer includes me.

The project underway more than 7 months now, at our home’s entrance is very much appreciated. There was no shoulder to decelerate in to pull into our driveway prior to this project, and the wife and I were nearly rear ended twice at 60 mph, due to our driveway intersecting the road only a few hundred feet past a rise in the road that limits drivers sight distance until after cresting the hill just before our driveway.

Two accidents have occured on this stretch, one with a fatality of a 19 year old girl, because there was nowhere to go on this 2 lane road safely to avoid an imminent collision. Now there is a minimum 25’ of wiggle room on either side the pavement without obstructions to safely decelerate and avoid on pavement collisions. This road has been 60mph since the 55 mph nation wide speed limit was rescinded, many, many years ago.

It was a country road 20 years ago. It is now the only main thoroughfare for thousands of commuters each morning and evening. I for one, and the crew members on the project I have talked to, for 3, are very glad for the Stimulus bill that is employing them, and making access to our home dramatically safer for our family. I would never have known it was a Stimulus Bill project if I had not asked a crew member. I never knew about the web sites until this whole issue became a hot topic for political discussion and I researched it on the internet.

Christine,

..praising my generosity?

Economics is a funny thing, but I’ve yet to see it called generosity. But what else is new to Republican disinformation? I know, let’s create a Depression and then we can blame that on something other than our obstructionism that repeats the idiocy of the 30’s.

They wanted to widen the road near my house. I didn’t think they needed to do it, …..

Having formerly work for a highway department, I suspect “they” probably did a traffic study unlike one grumpy old tree hugger, but that would be anathema to a disinformation campaign. I always loved those guys that always complained about the construction, but then also would complain if they had to drive down a dirt trail. You just can’t make some people happy.

See, tax dollars pay the salaries of departments that study things like traffic flow and actually do some planning to prioritize road projects, just like stimulus packages create real jobs for contractors, architects and engineers who in turn spend money on rent and groceries. Who’d think that taxes actually support things that make sense?

But keeping the public in the dark allows one to claim hocus pocus and reelect the idiots that created the need for stimulus. Transparency really sucks for crooks.

Time to respond to part of your post David. Have to check out O’Riley ya know. The fact that O’Riley has signed on with Glen Beck helps me to believe that Beck is the real thing. I respect O’Riley as a straight up guy. The other thing about Beck is that he is not anything like Limbaugh, a verbose nut case IMO, never backs up his mouth with stats, video, audio, etc. Beck does. Everything he puts out there is backed up by some type of media. You don’t have to believe Beck but you can’t deny the images and audio. Don’t know why politicians would put that stuff out there, don’t know how Beck is able to find it but, he does and it gives him credibility, IMO.

Roy said: “The fact that O’Riley has signed on with Glen Beck helps me to believe that Beck is the real thing. I respect O’Riley as a straight up guy.”

What can I say? I have watched so many of O’Riley’s contradictions and episodes of sophistry, I cannot bear to waste my brain matter on him, anymore. I will say this for O’Riley and Beck, as entertainers, they have learned to mix a bit of truth, with their misinformation and partisan hyperbole as to both entertain some and complete deceive others in very shallow and false conclusions.

We all have to get our news from somewhere. But, to get it from entertainers with a clear partisan agenda and ideology, is to more than flirt with ignorance as a result. I used to watch the Ed Show, but, had to quit for the same reasons I quit watching O’Riley.

One of the shows I do watch for news on TV is the Rachel Maddow show. There is NO mistaking Maddow’s partisanship. There is no mistaking her liberal slant. But, one thing Maddow does not do, as far as I can tell, is to make illogical arguments or misrepresent the facts. She has erred in her facts upon occasion and blatantly and forthrightly makes a big point of apologizing and setting the record straight.

Keith Obermann is a partisan entertainer, pure and simple. He cherry picks like no one else I know except Limbaugh for information to make his liberal partisan case. His ongoing talking war with O’Riley grew stale ages ago.

Now this is political news we are talking here. I have not found a better TV site for no spin political news straight from the source than C-Span. But, C-Span only appeals to a small audience with enough educational background in politics and government to spot the lies, distortions, and misrepresentations coming out of politicians, or their water bearer’s mouths, for them self.

To be objective, one has to avoid the partisan hacks who play fast and loose with logical rules and facts and data to massage the news to appear the way they need it to in order to advance themselves or their partisan agenda. Beck and O’Riley, Obermann and Ed, are all partisan hacks playing fast and loose with the truth and facts in very subjective ways.

I do like to watch HardBall frequently, even though Matthews is clearly a liberal partisan. What I like is that he will expose illogical positions and dodging of the questions of his guests regardless of their liberal or conservative bent. He is objective enough to forthrightly agree with Conservative guests when they represent the realities without spin or sophistry. Hardball is much of a program though for canvassing the news and issues that should be of concern to voters on a continuous basis.

For that, I turn to CNN or C-Span. But, like I said, everyone has to get their news from someone reporting it. Testing the news from reporters against other sources however, is essential of one wants to get a handle on what’s really going on. I like listening to Larry Kudlow when he is not yelling and drowning his guests out of the dialogue, as he is a staunch conservative who does not play fast and loose with the data, though he does force the interpretation of that data to his conservative ideology.

When Larry Kudlow is talking about the economic data favoring Obama’s objectives, I know I am hearing the data from a trusted source for objective data reporting. Like Kudlow is fond of saying, the data don’t lie. I was impressed quite a few months ago when Kudlow switched his position and came right out and admitted that the Stimulus spending is having some positive effect according the economic data. His read of the economic data is now so positive that he is flailing about the threat of inflation, which his guests continue to remind him is not yet on the horizon. Kudlow wants bad news to come from the data in response to Obama’s actions, but, the data isn’t there yet, and Kudlow has the integrity to not try to spin the data toward his wants. I respect Larry Kudlow enormously, though I disagree with ideology equally as much. He is a died in the wool supply-side economist. But with enough integrity to admit when Keynesian policy produces positive results in the short run. He is always quick to return to his supply side ideology for the long term predictions, though, and that is OK with me as I know his crystal ball is no clearer than mine, and he makes no attempt to hide the fact that he is speculating.

David,

It’s funny how your story and my perception of Texas and its Stimulus money differs because of the main stream media as well as geography.

I’ve watched a number of the Gubernatorial debate clips of the Texas candidates and I came away with the impression that George W. Bush had a face transplant in the name of Rick Perry. I mean - Yee Haw! ‘We don’t want (or take) no taxes from DC!’

And according to a lot of the MSM reports on shows like Fox News, one would think that Texas did not receive ANY Stimulus. Seriously, I really believed that spin from the R crowd down there as told by the MSM.

I wonder if any of the congressional Republican leaders in Texas have “photo-ops” with any of the job-creating, shovel-ready Fed money to bolster their appeal to the electorate? Rachel Maddow would surely put their names and faces up on her Hipocrisy Wall of Fame during her show.

I too get my ‘hard news’ from a number of sources. BBC World News America is a nice place to get a generally non-biased story on most “national” stories, even though they tend to lean to the left. However, they are far less partisan than MSNBC and Fox. I too will watch CNN - even though they basically fell off the earth with viewership. They are #1 when it comes to disaster coverage. But that gets old quick (In fact, I think Anderson Cooper was just awarded Hatian citizenship)!

As much as I hate Texas’ dumb ass cowboy image (and I wear cowboy boots and a cowboy hat on occasion), I loved it when some tough old Texan’s actually threatened to shoot some of the surveyors trying to lay out Perry’s Trans Texas Corridor payoff to political cronies. They organized and ate Perry’s lunch. It’s why I think Kay Bailey will win the Governor’s race.

I don’t dislike cowboys, just stupid and phony ones.

Ever see ‘W’ on a horse? Molly Ivans loved to say he was scared of horses. Good Hair (Perry) is a cheap immitation of a cheap imitation.

Gergle

I don’t drive much.

With highways I worry that we have the “if you build it they will come” syndrome.

The bottom line is that the project would not have gone through absent the stimulus. If the State didn’t think it worth spending its own money to do the work, why was it suddenly worth doing with somebody else’s money?

Christine
…duh…to put people to work. Thats what the simulus package was intended to do.

Yup, gotta get your news from somewhere. Thousands of organizations out there pushing some political ideology or agenda. My email is full of them. Stuff I just hit the delete key on, unless one mentions a new HR or SB I might have some interest in. Then I’ll take a peek to see what the bill is about. I’m one wary dude, populist, when it comes to political news but I’m not smart enough to be a 100% right in my calls. For instance, a few days ago some bright folks, economists I believe, were debating which state had the better governing and economic model relative to the depression, errrr recessssion. Calif, with something like $500B in state wide debt was, deemed the worst. Tx. with the 2nd largest debt of $33B, was chosen to be first. I had always heard that the Texas judicial system is really sad, and is a strong supporter of the NAU. So, I put Texas in the ‘sleep on it column’ and now I hear from several WB’s that it ain’t so great in Tx. So, for me, my feelings are soft on Tx, my jury is still out. Further conflicting my opinion is the legacy of Bush and the oil patch gang, and Kay B. Hutchinson is right up there with Phil Gramm (commodities futures modernization scam). I see this Perry guy as a Bush wannabe, with an oil patch and NAU agenda. Kinda murky, but that’s how it is. Nobody trust anybody and they are correct in doing so. That in itself represent a failed government, IMO. Plus I realize I am ignorant of a lot of facts, information and history that makes me real wary about things.
I know I really have a dislike for Limbaugh, Hannity and any such dyed in the wool ideological fanatic. Limbaugh didn’t even slow down when Bush’s stuff hit the fan. There are powerful influences just like him that would/has run this country over the cliff and, IMO, when the crash comes they will go into the streets begging for alms all the while espousing their ideology.
This trust thing is a biggie. That’s why I call for any 3rd party that wants to represent a 21st century party to put in down on paper and in rules. The Constitution didn’t call for political parties but we’ve got em. Have to fight fire with fire. A 21st century 3rd party has to set some rules to ensure that party can never be co-opted or corrupted. Has to write down what the hell they plan to do, and not in vague, broad terms. Some specific terms (see republic sentry party) where metrics can be applied. A pure reform agenda to get things straightened out. And void of any social issues that would surely defeat any reform initiative, a la HC.

Bills

If we put people to work doing things that don’t need to be done, or maybe actually should not be done, we don’t accomplish anything, except make politicians happy and lets them bribe us with our own money.

Christine

To the contrary. When we put people to work in the current economic enviorenment, we accomplish a great deal. We allow a fellow American the chance to support their family without welfare. We also provide another tax payer. Products and services used by that worker,both on the job and off, create other jobs and taxpayers,provide profits to businesses that just may be able to hire yet another worker. The multiplying effect is real.That is the reason for stimulus. If we get a valuble project out of it,so much the better, but that is not the basic goal.This is temporary. This economic condition can not last. Until such time as private industry starts hiring again,this is like medicine and its foolish to not finish the perscription.

Christine said: “If we put people to work doing things that don’t need to be done, or maybe actually should not be done, we don’t accomplish anything, except make politicians happy and lets them bribe us with our own money.”

True enough, Christine. But, America has decades of work before it that absolutely needs to be done if our future is to be maintained with any semblance of quality for our children which we have known in the present and last 50 years.

bills is exactly right about the compounding positive effects of government putting people to work, for useful and needed projects. Every person hired on a public work or sponsored program in the private sector reduces government spending on that unemployed worker and needs of their family, it produces in addition revenues back to the government to offset the cost of those job creation projects. Working people commit less crime than non-working people. Working people provide charitable contributions which non-working people don’t, further alleviating the need for government spending. Working people produce better educated and more productive children as adults, acting as an investment in long term government spending reduction. Working people are healthier people, lowering Medicare and Medicaid spending.

The returns on a job created in the private or public sector pay dividends both tangible and measurable, and intangible and immeasurably positive from the recipient’s point of view. Good for the individual, good for society as a whole, and in the long term, at least cost neutral, if the economy is capable of sustaining itself.

Kevin, thanks for reminding me about BBC. I need to reincorporate them back into my list of sources. I dropped them because of their hysterics over the progress of the Iraq War. But, then, that war partisanly divided Brits the same way it did Americans.

Roy, thanks for the reply on the media. We share a lot of the same reaction to many of those sources.

The problem with rules, especially for a political party whose objective is power, is that they get in the way of the objective. Power hates rules, except when those rules preserve power. Power exists in a dynamically changing world, and therefore, power will change the rules accordingly, in order to preserve itself.

These foundations of power are everywhere evident in our current political system. The Duopoly Party did not start out to become the instruments of the destruction of the United States as we know it. Power evolved them toward this current state. Still, a new Party must have honest and sensible rules at its beginning to do any good before becoming corrupted. And so, you are on the right track for the Republic Sentry Party.

I still think you should change the name. Most people in America, sadly, don’t know what a Republic is, and many don’t know what a Sentry is. They know what a Party is, though, when their favorite sports team wins. :-)

Exactamente David. People of the 21st century should not trust, nor be expected to trust. There must be established rules to play by and enforcement of those rules as well. Republic Sentry rules allow for membership to oversight their politicians and if they screw up they can be rejected from the party by vote. Only way the rules can be modified is through a voting process where 65% of the voting membership must agree to a rule change. Not easy to do nor likely to happen.
Republic Sentry, guardian of the Republic. What could be a better name for a political party? Beats whig!

Christine:

The bottom line is that the project would not have gone through absent the stimulus. If the State didn’t think it worth spending its own money to do the work, why was it suddenly worth doing with somebody else’s money?

Again, you have no basis for this assumption. If you had any concept of a budget process, you might understand why the stimulus made a shovel ready project proceed. The fact that the project was “shovel ready” implies it was a high priority project only held up by a lack of funds, which BTW, comes from things like fuel taxes. I’m not quite sure where you get the “other people’s money” idea. Most states don’t entirely fund many road projects. One thing Texas complains about is that it contributes more in gas taxes than it recieves in federal funding. This idea of “proportionate” has somewhat to do with the large size of the state, and thus large mileage of roads .