Third Party & Independents Archives

Frederick, you obviously haven’t seen Zombieland. Do you really want to be one of the group or one of the survivors?

Me I’m doing my cardio (rule no. 1)

Econ 101 and 102, and American History 1 and 2, are all the innoculation against such paranoid delusional perspective a normal person needs. Unfortunately, in America, our politicians from the school boards to the political party leadership work diligently to insures such education is never received by American high school students, or, at the very worst, only by the very elite among them.

An educated electorate is a politician’s worst case scenario. This has always been the case in America which is one reason why education was kept from women and minorities for so very long in this country, and fought against with life and limb. Quality high level public education is a very dangerous threat to a politician’s reelection chances.

Education reached its zenith in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s which concurrently saw a dramatic rise in public activism, demonstrations, and public hostility toward government. The standards for public high school education have been dropping ever since. The correlation is unmistakable, even if the cause and effect is not provable.

David,

Well, some politician’s worst nightmares. Frankly, we can do without those politicians.

Your friends mother shouldn’t worry. She has at least until 8/11 before it all comes down. And what do we think of a government run by a political organizer that would support groups like ACORN for their own personal political gain while doling out grants using taxpayer money? Should we just change their soiled diapers or should we support a 3rd party reform effort to rid the government of such riffraff?

Otherwise, we have the government we deserve.

They are doing what they need to do. Listening to individuals in the media who make millions because the news workers making 50K a year are all biased co-conspirators.

Roy, just about everything contained in your following sentence is wrong: “And what do we think of a government run by a political organizer that would support groups like ACORN for their own personal political gain while doling out grants using taxpayer money?”

First, government is not being run by Obama. It is being run by a Supreme Court, a Congress, and hosts of civil servants in the executive branch including President Obama.

Second, when a person or a few in your Third Party are found to be violating the laws or fiduciary duty of your third party, do you want the public to condemn the entire Party due to the actions of those few, and abandon it? If not, then cut Obama some goshdarn slack on ACORN which has done an enormous amount of good over the years for poor, undereducated, and often unemployed citizens trying to deal with their plight at both the community and political level. Your comment appears to be taking its information from Rush and Beck. Not very independent of you.

Third, Obama doesn’t dole out money the CONGRESS hasn’t first allocated UNDER LAW. So, to blame Obama for ACORN funding demonstrates ignorance of our federal spending mechanisms as well as Constitutional authority.

gergle, agreed, but there are so bloody many of them in local, county, state, and federal government, that I fear ignorance shall have to threaten the entire nation’s viability like last years economic meltdown, before the sweeping reforms that are needed could possibly be implemented. There are severe limits to Obama’s power to effect this kind of reform in a decentralized and locally run school board system predicated on State’s Rights to teach ignorance for political gains and voter gullibility.

David, I do believe that Obama, as President of the U.S. can be assumed to be, or referred to as ‘el primo’.
I do believe that Obama was, in earlier times, an organizer in support of the Democratic party.
I do believe the Democratic party legislators at the federal level have used taxpayer money to fund ACORN.
I do believe ACORN is a corrupt organization, top to bottom,
IMO, we can do far better.

Roy, you are entitled to your beliefs.

But your beliefs stated above do not comport with factual falsities and allusions in your previous comment. You can say Obama is the ‘el primo’ of the Executive Branch, but, that is a far cry from making your previous statement true, that Obama is running the government. He clearly is not, or we would have had a health care reform bill in law many moons ago.

You can believe Democratic legislators partially funded ACORN, but, what has that got to do with Obama? Your conflation is false and illogical. And for your education, Congress did not fund ACORN in the budget passed this year, as I recall. Obama had nothing to do with funding ACORN. See GW Bush if you want to blame a president for funding ACORN, which is illogical nonetheless. Congress funds. The President spends those funds. Obama was not allocated any funds to spend on ACORN.

You can say you believe ACORN is corrupt from top to bottom, but, what the hell do you know about their accomplishments over the years for the needy amongst themselves, other than what right wingnut conservatives have spun out in the negative as a result of a sting operation and a few bad apples within the organization?

Have you been served by ACORN? Have you been a participant in ACORN? Have you even read the investigative reports? Have you read their many laudable accomplishments by third party organizations and charitable organizations? Do you have any personal experience or objective third party experience with ACORN at all?

If not, then isn’t your belief subject to question as to its prejudices? To judge something without adequate information is prejudging, the root of prejudice. Is it not more wise to withhold judgment unless and until one objectively
informs oneself about that which is to be judged?

You can believe whatever you want. To persuade however, requires more than just under-informed assertion of belief, especially in a political debate forum.

Well said, David. No personal experience but then I voted for Ralph Nader with no personal experience there either. I agree the ACORN thing has been beat to death.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=wade+rathke&aq=0&oq=wade+ra&aqi=g10

Google Wade Rathke and you get 308,000 hits. It ain’t pretty.

I find it beyond the pale that more people are watching FOX where Glenn Beck is rated highly and many folks choose to berate his information.

Here is a cspan video from the ‘accuracy in media’ ((conservative, not criminal)) conference last week

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/289609-1

I guess it comes down to the level of corruption one is willing to tolerate. IMO, this is a failed government and should be cast aside for something better.
etc,

It certainly would be worth the price of a ticket to watch the neocon survivalists go up against the liberals at the ok corral.

“What kind of gun do you have?”

“I have an American History 1.” “How about you?”

“Im packing a econ 101.”

Sorry David, I couldn’t resist the temptation.

Roy, to be accurate, you have to say that RR, GHWB, BC, GB and BO have all worked to destroy the America that most Americans know and love.

These men and their political parties sold us out to the corporations on behalf of their differing New World Order visions.

They never bothered themselves with bring the American people on board, they just rammed it down our throats and up our asses.

Why? Because they are smarter, they are educated, they are arrogant beyond comparison and they are obtaining great wealth for themselves at the expense of the American workers.

Right to the chase jlw! I’ve just grown tired of railing at the system. We know what is wrong with the it, and should be looking to solutions, to the future rather than rehashing the ills of government.
Beck is way out on the limb this evening. He is suggesting that interest rates will be north of 20% based on the fact that during the Carter era we had a debt to GDP ratio of 7 to 1 and interest rates rose to 20% then. Now that we have a debt to GDP ratio of 120 to 1 he expects interest rates to skyrocket, destroying the dollar as a currency. And, he thinks the government is planning now to replace the dollar with — U.S. realestate. Since Fannie/Freddie own about 40% now, with more to follow re the recession, he believes China will agree to buy us up on the cheap. China is setting on the sidelines with a couple of trillion in sovereign wealth funds, waiting patiently for the green light.
That scenario does fit well with the proposed new world order (everybody screwing everybody else), as I can tell. Right now the banks aren’t lending so the new money isn’t being dumped into the system. Who is to say where the interest rate will go in a couple of years after release but you would have to believe its going to be one rather large numero.
Jeff Sessions said the Dems defeated a GOP amendment to prevent illegals from receiving unemployment funds. Just caught a snippet of it on, dare I say it, FOX.

Otherwise, we have the government we deserve.

Roy, the problem I have with Glen Beck and Fox News in general is that they more often than not wrap a big lie around a small truth which often contains a conspiracy theory such as the liberal agenda.

Do you think Glen Beck invests in corporations that are sending jobs overseas or hiring illegal immigrants? I do.

Almost everything they say about the Democrats is just as true about the Republicans.

If Glen Beck were in charge, he would do one of two things about the economy. He would do the same thing the Democrats are doing or he would let the economy fall into a depression.

The Republican party supports illegal immigration.

The Republicans support the export of jobs.

The Republicans support the New World Order just as the Democrats do. They just don’t share the same vision for the NWO.

The Democrats believe in a kinder, gentler NWO and they are willing to screw the American workers to get it, especially when they can get wealthy doing it. There was a time when the Democrats were progressive. They were the champions of the working class and the working class responded with their votes. Those day’s are long gone.

The Republicans believe in the NWO but they want it made perectly clear who is the boss and who is giving the Orders. The Republicans have never given a damn about the American workers except in a trickle down, crum way. If they work hard and are productive they get a crum. If not, they get nothing.

As to interest rates, first it’s positive growth followed by inflation then interest rates.

jlw,

Well put. The Dem GOP change up is an illusion. You usually can’t say one president did something without admitting the last five did too.

Roy,

You’re saying Beck went out on a limb this evening? He’s been living out there like a nut with his head wrapped in tin foil. I wish people would stop bringing up entertainers as if they’re experts at anything but getting ratings.

jlw, you are usurping my politics. Maybe I should be pushing progressive rather than populist reform. I looked at the Progressive movement last week but didn’t delve into their politics. Will check again. Agree with your post with the exception of what Glenn Beck would do if he were running things. I can only imagine!
Latest on ACORN from Dobbs tonight. Says under recent Consumer Protection Agency amendment, pushed by Maxine Waters, ACORN and similar groups will have access to influence regulation of financial institutions. The same institutions from which they receive donations. Sen and House voted to cut of funding for ACORN until Oct 31st. Some Dems are working to reinstate ACORN funding.

“Jeff Sessions said the Dems defeated a GOP amendment to prevent illegals from receiving unemployment funds.”

What exactly does Jeff Sessions think that the word “illegal” means?

How exactly would an illegal receive unemployment funds? To collect unemployment, you have to work for a company that paid into the system, right? If they paid into the system and an employee who worked for them became eligible for unemployment, and the state refused to pay it, wouldn’t the state be swindling that person?

ohrealy,

To collect unemployment you have to have a real SS number.
How does an illegal get a real nuber?

Rocky

“Third-party” is always a “interesting” and “conveninent”word. :)

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Thank enlightenment for “illegals”. They’re paying in to social security but can never collect.

Wellll, strung out to dry! Thought someone would have seen the exchange between Sessions and the host. Wasn’t Hannity. Between 7-9pm on 28th. I called Sessions office this AM but lady couldn’t help me relative to the exchange. I would suggest we wait about two months and see if some related action takes place in the Senate. That should take the heat off fer a while, right ohrealy?

Here is part of the interview between Sessions and Neil Cavuto on FOX, Oct 28th. Good example of why I repeatedly say we have a failed government. Wouldn’t you agree? And, as far as I can tell Fox is the only news channel to have aired this. Ain’t that sumthin!

Sessions noted that the dems had defeated a rep amendment or proposal to prevent illegals from receiving unemp. ins.

//Sessions//
what we want them to do is, like we`re asking business to do, is to check with E-Verify to see if the person who seeks unemployment insurance and compensation is actually lawfully in the country. That can be done, but they do not want a vote on that, for reasons that baffle me, and, frankly, have said nothing is going to be voted on, as I understand it, if this bill — this amendment is allowed to be voted on. So, it looks like, at this point, we are going to have a hard time getting a vote.

CAVUTO: So, are — are illegals presently getting jobless benefits? You can say that unequivocally?

SESSIONS: Yes. And they file through the Social Security -

Couldn’t find a full transcript w/o paying $20.

Otherwise, we have the government we DESERVE!

jack, I believe when enough people are near broke and realize they and their government can’t support an illegal population then we will be able to start a reform movement. I completely agree with your time frame of two - six years. I’m gettin ready.

Otherwise, we have the government we deserve.

“My friend’s mother wanted the money to stock up on survival supplies because she thought Obama was going to destroy the country by this January.”

Well Frederick your friends mother is just a wee bit late and has evidently help support those that would see our nation fail.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/9-signs-that-america-is-in-decline.aspx

That is the kind of situations countries get into when they have a one party government.

Excellent article on that link, j2t2. Fred wrote that he thought he would never see enough factionalism to divide the country again. I see the division as based on right and wrong. Not hard to get divided over that. Just any day pick up a paper and read all about it: Wash Post article gist. Ex-N.Y Senate Republican, Bruno, faces corruption trial that could send him to prison for collecting $3.2M in commissions and gifts for using his state influence to benefit a dozen labor unions and three private businessmen. Article cites corruption in several other cases back to 1991. Lawrence Norden, senior counsel at NYU Law Schools’ Brennan Center for Justice said oversight has been lacking for a long time by legislators and partly the result of concentration of power in the governor office, Senate majority leader and Assembly speaker offices. Norden said he expects the trial to shed light on the ‘pay to play’ culture in the state capital. Said that by 2008 the Senate ethics committee hadn’t met in 10 years.
From Wash Post (gist) : In 2005 Robin Beale was convicted for a fraud scheme that bilked lenders out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. A year later she was awarded a million dollar contract from the District’s AIDS program. Over three years she received more than $2M, while approving invoices that listed unnamed employees and subcontractors, rent for a rarely used office building among other things deemed improper. A Post investigation found that the city had paid millions in recent years to non-profits working with the AIDS program that couldn’t account for their spending or services.
Well, it’s tautology I know to keep bringing up the ills of government. But, I do like to look to the future and solutions to government when I can. In NY’s 23rd Congressional District a Republican running on the Conservative Party ticket, is the most likely winner for a seat that has been in the Republican camp forever. He is strongly supported by TEA party activists. Dem and Rep strategists independently voiced their belief that anger is the most significant force in politics today and a potential threat to incumbents of both parties next year. “A complete breakdown of trust” the Rep. noted.
There are more political writers and talking heads suggesting that one or more third parties are likely to come on the scene in the near future. And I say, so what. A new third party will, within a few years of coming to power, become a mirror of the duopoly. Why? The money influence, of course. That is why we need a third party with a different political attitude. A Party pushing a real reform agenda. A Party that empowers its members to serve as oversight for their elected and appointed officials. A Party of rules whereby the rules are fixed, preventing the Party from being overtaken by opposing ideology or corruptive influence. The Republic Sentry Party comes to mind. I’ve looked at the New American Independent Party and see nothing that will hold them together over the long run.

Otherwise, we have the government we deserve.

Anybody that thought the US would flourish forever needs to buy a few history books because they missed out in school.

The #1 rule of any hegemony is that what goes up must come down. Let’s just hope we can manage a soft landing and become more low profile, like Switzerland, after we pull our armed forces out of the 130 countries they’re stationed in.

Roy,

Republic Sentry doesn’t interest me because it’s a one man show that you’re doing your best to promote. Good luck in building things over the next decade, but we need something strong that will fill the void now because the void for a third party is growing.

Here’s a nice article I found on the subject.

http://www.americanreform.org/index.php/arp/why_america_needs_a_thrid_party/