Third Party & Independents Archives

Stop Free Market Death Panels

It’s easy to dismiss someone with a sign saying “Obama Wants to Pull the Plug on Grandma!” below a picture of him portrayed as a Nazi. Besides the obvious falsehoods involved, it begs a serious question. What kind of sign should we be making for the free market death panels that operate regularly out of every insurance outfit in the United States?

First of all, they must all be written in the past tense and about real people. Such as “Cigna Killed My 17 Year Old Daughter!” or a more generic “My Grandma Died of a Typo!

Those that have gotten so excited about these imaginary government death panels should be just as upset and potentially violent about the real death panels within the bowels of the American insurance industry. You’d think the great American people would get angry with a death panel actually killing people before going to all the trouble of making a sign for an imaginary government execution committee. This is a perfect example of the inherent wrongness of misinformation, but the insurance industry lobbyists that pulled this off will be rewarded for their successful duping of Joe six packs across the nation.

Unfortunately, I think those with the Obama as Hitler signs claiming Herr Barack will pull grandma’s plug to cut costs were already waiting for something they could frame around the neck of a president they just don’t like (for whatever reasons; perceived or subconscious). This may happen to all presidents in some form or another, but this is a bit different. We are witnessing an imaginary government policy that has never and will never occur get attacked with ignorant vigor while at the same time people like William McGuire, ex-CEO of UnitedHealth Group, retire with over a billion dollars thanks to the successful efforts of their operational death panels as well as insurance industry lobbyists like Karen Ignagni

Misinformation works really well in America so let’s buttress this as best we can with some information. Here are the names of people that have faced free market death panels within their insurance companies; some lived to tell about it, some didn’t:

Nataline Sarkisyan

Robin Beaton

Michael Napientek

Patricia Reilling & Peggy Raddatz’s brother

Last June, a House Energy and Commerce Committee reported that out of just three insurance companies, 20,000 patients were denied between 2003 and 2007 because they had a preexisting condition or a family member had a bad medical history, or just because of a typo on their application.

The profit motive of capitalism and the hippocratic oath of medicine are diametrically opposed. Health Care Reform will stop death panels from operating, not increase them.

Posted by Frederick S. Friedman at August 28, 2009 6:16 PM
Comments
Comment #287045

The American people know whats going on with insurance companies. They know they are going to loose with any change to healthcare. Same with immigration. Same with Cap and Trade, etc. Businesses have been in an incestous relationship with government for about 150 years. All legislation is conducted under a huge conflict of interest. Until we are willing to do what is necessary to take the money influence out of politics there is no point in legislating for anything.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at August 28, 2009 8:03 PM
Comment #287047

A guy named W Clement Stone started selling what were then called “accident and health” insurance policies in the 1920s and became a multi-millionaire. His company eventually became AON, whose headquarters are in the tallest building in the picture on their homepage. This was originally called the Standard Oil Building, later Amoco. Oddly, when it was built, for an embarrassingly large amount of money due to architectural mistakes, the Iranian consulate moved there from the John Hancock building, either directly behind it in the picture, or digitally removed. The Prudential building is the little one to the left.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 28, 2009 9:24 PM
Comment #287051

what is so morosely hilarious is that these idiots with such signs are too ignorant to realized the sort of realities you pointed out.

You could point out all the realities in the world, but if someone believes Obama was not born in America even the real birth certificate won’t be enough to convince them. These people are the sort who willingly let themselves be lead around and who jump at the chance to be a part of the group without ever finding out the membership requirements.

These are the sort of people who want government to “stay out of their medicare”!

Posted by: Mike Falino at August 29, 2009 12:02 AM
Comment #287053

I think we should certainly condemn the fools who call any American president a Nazi or compare him to Hitler. I only wish we had a time machine that could take people back to see for themselves how bad things were.

Of course, some of those justifiably complaining about comparing our president to Hitler would not have to go far back to find themselves doing some of the same sorts of things.

President Bush suffered almost exactly the same kinds of extremist attacks when he tried to reform Social Security.

They should all feel stupid.

Posted by: Christine at August 29, 2009 12:16 AM
Comment #287056

Christine,
Bush was certainly not as bad as Hitler. When the United States invaded Iraq on the basis of lies and pretexts, only several hundred thousand human beings died in the ensuing violence, far less than what happened with the Nazis. There were no more invasions after Iraq. The United States tortured no more than two dozen people to death. The chain of secret prison around the world tortured some people, but not nearly as many as the Nazis. The United States only ran one concentration camp, the one in Guantanamo, and unlike the Nazis, there were no ovens. There was no plan to exterminate a minority, no plan to persecute gays- remember, the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage never was enacted- and there was no ultra nationalistic movement to prevent immigration, or expel illegal immigrants, or build walls along the southern border, or maintain cultural purity with amendments to make English the official language of the country.

We agree. Bush was nothing like Hitler, and it is inappropriate to make that comparison.

You write: “President Bush suffered almost exactly the same kinds of extremist attacks when he tried to reform Social Security.”

Apparently two-thirds of the country were “extremists.” The plan to turn Social Security over to Wall Street was opposed by the vast majority of Americanss. How can the vast majority be extremist, and a small fringe constitute the center? Please explain.

My goodness! Imagine if the conservatives had succeeded in privatizing Social Security! It would have been an absolute catastrophe.

Posted by: phx8 at August 29, 2009 1:34 AM
Comment #287058

I have to admit the practice of comparing US presidents to the Nazis is just wrong in general. Although Bush may fit the bill a little more than Obama right now, that doesn’t mean much. Both are still light years away from the Third Reich which never operated under a constitution or term limits.

And to be completely fair, if Obama comes as close to living up to the nightmares of the right as much as Bush became the personification of the nightmares of the left, then who knows what’s possible. We’re only 7 months in, however, and the level of hatred is simply phenomenal.

I recently heard that Obama is receiving 400% more death threats than any president in history. Like I said above, the people calling for his blood now were already itching for an excuse to get ugly over BHO.

The insurance industry hit one out of the park when they tapped into the hatred for our president and turned it against health care reform. Reform truly aimed at helping the people.

Posted by: Fred at August 29, 2009 3:09 AM
Comment #287061

Phx8

I think it is appalling for anybody to compare an American president to Hitler. Period. Anybody who really believes it is plainly stupid and ignorant of history. Anybody who just uses it is a morally bankrupt.

To put the comparison on a continuum is meaningless.

Re Social Security - most people thought SS needed to be reformed but they disagreed with the reforms proposed. This is exactly what is happening now with health care reform. And just as the advocates of SS reform didn’t see it coming, and said it opposition was only the result of organized special interests, so too are the advocates of health care reform blind to the truth.

It is easier to identify a problem than to propose solutions most people want.

Posted by: Christine at August 29, 2009 9:38 AM
Comment #287062

Fred,
Good article, I just wonder if the Insurance Companies and their Stockholders really want to defend their actions in a wrongful death suit?

True, it would take a Lawyer will great courage, but if a normal person can be charge with wrongful death because they denied another person help than how many counts of murder can be charged due to the ignorance of some company goon just following orders. Is the God Almighty Dollar more important than their right of Personhood?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at August 29, 2009 9:38 AM
Comment #287066

Christine said: “President Bush suffered almost exactly the same kinds of extremist attacks when he tried to reform Social Security. “

Pres. Bush did NOT try to reform S.S., he tried to END IT, in favor of a system for those who could afford it and to hell with the rest.

If his opponents mischaracterized him as a Stalin or Mussolini, they were wrong to to do so. But, his opponents were on sound ground to refute his attempt to call his plan reform. Reform does not eradicate, it just changes. Even many in his own Party saw through his ruse and rejected his plan, outright.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2009 11:08 AM
Comment #287067

Frederick, very good article. And you nail it on those who tout the lies and misinformation. The lies and misinformation are tools to serve other ends. Many racist bigots out there are using the health care debate to take down this Black man in the White House because he is a Black Man.

Secret Service reported this week that death threats toward Obama are up 400% over previous presidents.

Many Republicans see health care as a tool to defeat Democrats’s agenda in the hopes of making the political point that Democrats are ineffective and should not be in power. (Remember the do-nothing Congress hulabaloo, they are trying to resurrect it as a political ploy.)

And of course, as you rightly point out, so many are just plain ignorant and fearful and seeking a leader to disguise their ignorance and allay their fears.

Bill Moyers however, on the Bill Maher show, said it really well, when he said Obama has the capacity to be an FDR on the health care reform, but, so far, appears not to be aware of that potential in himself. Moyers said Obama keeps trying to finesse the D.C. politicians on this issue instead of taking the issue directly to the hearts and minds of the American, not with facts and statistical trajectories, but, with the commons sense moral argument, we need to take care of each other and not let our children, grandparents, and unemployed suffer the lack of health insurance and jeopardy to their health and life which not having insurance creates.

I certainly hope someone tells Obama to take 5 minutes of his time to listen to Bill Moyers on that show. It was the most poignant and fundamental argument anyone in this country has made on this issue.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2009 11:21 AM
Comment #287091

Thanks Henry
Like I said before, the profit motive and the hippocratic oath are diametrically opposed to each other. People inside the insurance companies, either post claim underwriters or the lobbyists that perpetrated the death panel lie have and will continue to be rewarded for their successful efforts as long as they make everybody more money.

They will not stop this until it’s no longer profitable. You’d think massive public exposure can eventually cut into their profits, but the demonized pharma companies are still raking it in. Action needs to be taken to change the behavior of these profit seeking insurance kingpins. Obama needs to step up and be our new lion.

Posted by: Fred at August 29, 2009 2:16 PM
Comment #287092

Thanks David,

I’m gonna check out that Moyers interview.
As I said above, Obama needs to step up at this moment and be our new lion. He needs to take Teddy’s legacy and shove it down the throats of anyone who continues to obstruct debate and progress on this issue.

It’s time for health care reform, even if part of America doesn’t understand what they have to gain.

Posted by: Fred at August 29, 2009 2:22 PM
Comment #287100

David

The Bush SS proposals were parallel to the health care proposals. His plan also assured those who were currently happy with the program could keep their coverage. His private plan was the functional equivalent of Pelosi’s public plan for health care. In both cases, those satisfied with their current plans feared, with some justification, that the alternative “optional” plan would come to destroy the plan the wanted to keep. In both cases, proponents called this a “myth”.

The only difference is that you believed the “myths” of SS reform and reject those associated with health care. In both cases, they were/are not complete myths and the majority of the Americans, people then and now, are/were not foolish to consider them.

Re race – the only people making it an issue are those who want to make Obama a victim. I watch Fox News. They give a lot of coverage to the opponents. Nobody ever brings up race. What they bring up is the same arguments that opponents of Social Security reform used back then. It is an amazing parallel. It looks like the Democrats are using Bush’s playbook, while the opponents are using the old Democratic strategy.

The opponents, BTW, do NOT equal Republicans. Opponents outnumber Republicans and as we all know, the Democrats CAN pass any reform they want w/o any Republicans. So if the reforms are blocked, there are plenty of Democrats and Independent helping in the blocking.

I also agree with you, Fred and Bill Moyers that President Obama has to step up to push this reform. But I don’t think he is strong enough. Obama just doesn’t have the experience and the leadership ability. He is a perfect president from the image point of view, but there is nothing behind the wind but more wind. He is a disappointment.

Posted by: Christine at August 29, 2009 7:42 PM
Comment #287106

Christine, one major difference between Bush’s SS and the current health reform.

Under Bush’s plan, there was no safety net should one’s private plan investments go up in smoke before retirement. With the current health care reform, the safety net is in place for EVERY ONE.

Trying to equate privatization with the current public option as you have attempted, is fine, but, you ONLY point out the similarities, and not the all important difference. `

You are quick to judge a president in office only 8 months. A great many of our presidents, some of them excellent, had no executive experience and knocked the country’s socks off before their end, Lincoln being chief among these.

Hell, I even withheld judgment on Bush until the announcement of the Iraq invasion, which proved he was not up to the job of leading the nation in time of challenge (emanating from an entirely different country).

Of course, Republicans who supported Bush and the GOP these last 12 years, have proven their opinion is no longer in the mainstream. So, I will pass on your premature assessment of Obama. His leadership on the stimulus has returned all our 401K investments lost from 2007 through Feb. of this year (fortunately not much as we were mostly in fixed funds in anticipation of the meltdown, until March of this year, around the time I wrote here saying it was time to jump back into the equity markets in a measured fashion.

Following Republicans lead and opinions was a disaster for this country, so, forgive me if I don’t agree with you on your prejudgment of Obama’s presidency.

Obama reach out like no president have I seen to the GOP for bipartisan solutions, and Republicans trounced his offers at every turn. If you believe Obama is going to come back from this vacation following the same tact, I think you underestimate his remarkable history of being a fast and effective learner.

Some on the Left call Obama’s attempts to work with Republicans the sign of a weak president. I view as it a good faith effort to govern as the majority of Americans would like to see it take place. But, Republicans refused to meet the president half way. It wasn’t weak, it was hopeful and a sincere effort to keep his campaign pledge. But, when at two way street is turned into a one way, I don’t think Obama will be so stupid as to try to go the wrong way on this new one way street Republicans have fashioned.

Will he be able to rally the public as Bill Moyers suggested? I don’t know. I would bet however, that he will change his strategy and tactics, and then we will have to wait and see how effective they are. But, no measure of tactics and strategy, regardless of how brilliant, is going to bring Republicans over. That much is clear.

Republicans have never been more partisan and entrenched on the idea of killing the nation in order to defeat Democrat’s efforts. Reminds me of the South at the end of the Civil War, intent on keeping defacto slavery intact as their only respite to having lost. From Sen. Grassley to Rush Limbaugh to Tancredo, it is clear Republicans, having lost power, intend to have their revenge on the Democrats regardless of the cost to the nation. As if Democrats were responsible for their Party’s fate.

Nothing could be more telling than Republicans support for the Rx Drug bill they sponsored, and their damning the health care reform bill of Democrats today. The hypocrisy is truly monumental.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 29, 2009 10:42 PM
Comment #287112

Right now everthing the Neo Con Right Wing does and says seems like just another cheap ploy to gain power at any cost. Today on CNN Rick Sanchez played a tape where a Right Wing Church Pastor prayed for the death of our President.This false Pastor Steven Anderson must be a type of AntiChrist to preach such vile hatred from the pulpit of a supposedly Christian Church. What kind of a Christian would sit and listen to this racist violent garbage. If the ‘Faithfull Word Baptist Chuch’ is part of an association of Baptist Chuches then this Pastor should be defrocked and the Church suspended. With all of the lies and hatred I have heard since the election of President Obama. I feel as though I am living in Germany just prior to Hitler and the Nazis takeover. They also used race hatred and lies to seize power. I am a lifelong Republican White Male Church going Christian. But right now the Republicans I see on Fox News and so called Christians like Anderson make me truly fear for our future.

Posted by: Mike Allen at August 30, 2009 8:21 AM
Comment #287123

David

President Bush’s Social Security reform indeed promised the safety net. It is just that people thought it wouldn’t work. In that respect is it exactly the same as the promises we hear about President Obama’s health care plan. All these plans were/are wonderful in theory if you grant all the premises. But people concerned about living in the real world were/are asking questions.

Re the” last 12 years” of GOP. I am really not sure what you mean. George Bush was president for eight years. The GOP controlled both houses of congress from 1995-2001. Then again from 2003-2007. So the GOP controlled all three parts of government only four years. Democrats controlled the presidency from 1993-2001. They controlled the Senate 2001-3 and then both sides of congress 2007 until now.

If you mean the years from 1995-2007, these were generally good years. If you didn’t try to time the market and made regular investments in your 401K, you made a pile of money and even the losses of late 2008 didn’t erase that.

The stimulus and Fed action in 2008 worked well. That is the role of the Fed. The trillion dollars the Obama plan put in place have not yet done much of anything. Only a small percentage has even been deployed. The economy fixes itself to a large extent. Politicians take credit or blame.

Mike Allen
Anybody who prays for the death of an American president is a pin-head and he may have actually committed a crime. I hate it when idiots compare our president to Hitler or call him a fool or accuse him of systematically misleading the public. All those who did it or are doing it should be ashamed of themselves. All reasonable people condemn them.

I suggest you read a little more about Nazi Germany, however. Maybe go visit some of those camps.

If you are a lifelong Republican, presumably you know that the people you don’t like on TV are not representative of the people you know as good Republicans. Many, in fact, as caricatures, straw men set up by the left. I suppose this Anderson guy you mention no more represents conservative Christians than Rev Wright was the voice of black churches. I expect a lifelong Republican to have a good grasp of history and a conservative not to be swayed by momentary passions. It is insulting to people who lost their property, lives and their whole world during Nazi oppressions to compare their suffering to some local weirdoes. Take a deep breath and a longer perspective.

Posted by: Christine at August 30, 2009 1:38 PM
Comment #287134

Christine said: “President Bush’s Social Security reform indeed promised the safety net.”

No, it didn’t. Bush’s Soc. Sec. plan followed the same template as the Rx Drug plan, to bankrupt the nation as a result of social spending, as a means of getting the voters to reject social spending. From Money.com as CNN:

The transition costs of diverting a third ofpayroll taxes to individual investment accounts have been estimated at around $2 trillion over the next 10 years. That assumes, though, that a third of payroll tax is diverted for each of the 10 years.

And this: “On Wednesday, he [Bush] specified that benefits of anyone age 55 and older will not be changed.” Combined with this: “President Bush indicated that eventually, workers would be permitted to invest up to a third of the 12.4 percent payroll tax that they and their employers pay on their wages.”

And did President Bush offer to insure those investment earnings which would have lost 50% or more last year, and still be down by 30% today for those retiring this year?

No. Absolutely NOT! Ergo, no safety net for retirees whose investments and earnings are wiped out to insufficient levels by stock market and economic downturns of a protracted nature, especially if these occur in the years just before retirement.

Bush could not wrap his head around the complexities of the transition from the current system to a privatized system, nor did he have an adequate response to the privatized system consuming upwards of 20% of investments in administration and profit skimming.

Bush’s reform was not reform. It was a rather dumb founded attempt to transfer more middle class wealth to private corporation execs and shareholders, who were among his primary supporters and backers.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 30, 2009 5:24 PM
Comment #287137

David

You are “fact checking” Bush the same way people today are “fact checking” Obama. Good. I am not going to argue against it. The Bush plan would have worked in theory if the assumptions he made were true and we were really lucky. The Democratic plan (such as we can tell what they are) work if we grant their assumptions and we are very lucky.

Both these big change plans are flawed and both lack strong enough leadership to push them through.

Both properly diagnosed a BIG problem and both proposed the wrong solutions to address it.

BTW - both presidents let partisans in congress write the programs and both paid/are paying the price. President Bush wouldn’t give up his private option because the purists in his party wanted it too much. President Obama won’t compromised on the public option because the purist in his party won’t let him.

They are coming from opposite directions, but ending up in the same dustbin of history.

Posted by: Christine at August 30, 2009 6:00 PM
Comment #287142

Christine

I think there is more to Obama than just image, but this is without a doubt the biggest test of his lifetime. Everything before this came to him easier. The Elephant he’s dining on this time is still kicking, but the man does have teeth. He sure as hell chewed up McCain and spit him out.

He may have set an unrealistic goal in early August which made everyone feel rushed and this tripped up his efforts, but he’ll adjust his game accordingly and push forward. Over achievers like him don’t get discouraged this easily.

I think the radical displays at townhalls will engender an interesting tone in DC when all return for September. I was embarrassed by this spasm of ignorance and think politicians will be a little more careful in how we move forward, i.e. make sure the American people are paying attention to every step we make.

David

I agree with you on all this. The Bush SS plan’s success would’ve meant horrible things by now if it was embraced.

I must say I kept an open mind on Bush until the Iraq invasion when it was obvious something besides cold hard logic was being utilized.

I’m not too sure about the revenge aspect of the right’s dementia. I think a self perpetuating delusion has taken hold among some Americans. I’ve run into many who believe Obama is actively trying to destroy this country. I’m not saying they think his good intentioned policies are misguided and will cause catastrophe.

Many believe he is openly lying to the American public and is a foreign agent installed into the office of the president in order to end the United States. The Republican party is literally infected with these beliefs. Beliefs which are intertwined with a down tread on me from my cold dead hands mentality.

I am speaking about the extreme right, but the extreme right has never been this large and this invigorated before. Grassley, Rush, Tancredo all know who they’re playing to for their livelihood.

Also, I think that comparing Bush’s SS to Obama’s health care reform can only go so far and Christine has gone too far. It no longer holds water as a comparison.

Posted by: Fred at August 30, 2009 7:00 PM
Comment #287144

Obama’s handling of his own party will be the next chapter in this drama. I’d be watching for an iron fist, but the public option can only be delayed in democratic eyes nothing more. Most Dems say delay will occur over their political dead bodies, but that’s what they say. They’re democrats.

Posted by: Fred at August 30, 2009 7:06 PM
Comment #287158

Fred, you are right. Whether Obama takes on the Congressional Dem’s through the American people, or directly, remains to be seen. But, the Congressional Dems will be the targets of his action coming off vacation.

He has two routes to take. Compromise the plan to secure the Blue Dogs, or strong arm the Blue Dogs denying them home district gains through the Democratic leadership and Committee process.

Compromising the plan, does not, at this time, appear to be in the Congressional card deck, since there would be many times the opposition to that option than there would be to strong arming the Blue Dogs.

So, from my vantage point, I wouldn’t want to be a Blue Dog at this point in the U.S. Congress. There’s a freight train picking up speed directly toward their seats. Of course, there is a price to this course of action, and that will be that some of those seats will revert to Republican in 2010 or 2012.

But, anyone who believes anything takes place in Wa. D.C. without a political price, doesn’t understand American politics.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 31, 2009 10:15 AM
Comment #287159

Fred, the Right has been this insane before, during the Red Scare period, and during the height of the KKK and Aryan Nation periods in our history.

Insanity will always be a part of our society at the margins of our population. But, when the insane convene to organize, their deluded and paranoid ideology, our society finds ways to bust those organizations back into individual and small ineffective group isolation, again.

Exposing the insane for what they are, is never difficult, but, is usually always costly. One need only threaten their organization. Their response will always go beyond the pale of what the majority in our society will deem acceptable, and then our government is free to disband their organizations for the crimes they commit to defend their organization.

These principles apply to extremist Right or Left organizations, from the Leftist anarchist SDS to the right wing fascist leaning KKK. The Tea Party movement doesn’t realize it yet, but by hosting the nuts into their fold, they are sowing the seeds of their own organizational demise.

Just how many nuts an organization can contain in its membership before they cause the organization irreparable public image harm, is an organizational fundamental most start up organizations never consider, and some tenured organizations never learn the lesson of, as with the GOP.

This is where the GOP is losing their relevance as a political party. They are attracting, (out of their control), and passively defending (in their control) the nuts out there, and those nuts are defining their Party for the majority of Americans. Politically, its the stupidest move I have ever witnessed in my 60 years of life in America, all but guaranteeing Democratic House majorities for more decades to come, as has been the history of the two parties.

The GOP appeared to have learned the lesson in 1994, embracing mainstream Americans and their values. Then, upon achieving complete majority control of government, they found themselves governed by nut cases like Cheney and Gonzalez whose utter contempt for the law and Constitution did irreparable damage to their Party. How dumb is that, GWB? Pretty Dumb. And that is GWB’s legacy.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 31, 2009 10:28 AM
Comment #287199

Couldn’t agree more about Wash DC. After spending most of my life there, I can attest to a kind of political blood that is shed periodically.
The new administration itself was a blood bath for the republicans, but BHO has to actually make an example of his own people now. Obama must be respected and followed within his own party if he is to have any chance at shaping the kind of legacy a man like him demands. He certainly sees the pitfalls when it comes to GWB.

You sum up GWB’s legacy pretty well and I really wonder what conservatives will continue to defend him when they see their parties performance over the next few elections.

The blindly faithful or insanely faithful extreme conservatives will always support Bush’s courage to make stupid decisions no matter what people told him as they hole up in their closed communities and never flip flop on their values or evolve as we call it.

On the upside, the more the Republican party becomes an uncomfortable place for moderates and center leaning conservatives the more the pot will stir for a third party. At the very least, this will solidify the registered independent voter as a force to be reckoned with for a long time.

We just gotta keep an eye on these nuts.

Posted by: Fred at August 31, 2009 2:23 PM
Comment #287214

Fred said: “At the very least, this will solidify the registered independent voter as a force to be reckoned with for a long time.”

That is my assessment as well. The independent voters will be shaping elections going forward. Shaping elections however, in America, is no guarantee of shaping any particular policy. That is where the U.S. genuinely needs a pragmatic solutions oriented third party to force the duopoly’s hands in the direction of the people’s demands for solutions with consistent application long enough to actually effect resolution.

Switching parties and policies every decade does not solve long term problems.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 31, 2009 6:18 PM
Comment #287256

I really appreciate the distance that Roy has been able to cover with his discussions regarding this, but I can’t help thinking that the establishment of a third party is dependent on a magnetic unifying personality.

A unifying issue would be just as temporary as a unifying leader, but that kind of temporary anchoring from could lead to roots in the American cultural consciousness.

A continuation of this mutually destructive behavior could leave Obama impotent and a Republican party shattered, however, this would be optimal for third party enthusiasts.

Posted by: Fred at September 1, 2009 12:35 PM
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