Third Party & Independents Archives

I guess our best bet is to wait and see what Gov Palin will do. Nevertheless, I think this is a foolish move if she wants to run for President. When she resigns at the end of the month she will have served only a bit more than two and a half years as governor; this means she will be still plagued by accusations of inexperience. Also, it seems very disingenuous for her to bail out of the fiscal woes of her state and dump them onto her successor’s lap.

Overall, Sarah Palin reeks of George W. Bush’s scent: she has little experience in state or national office; she leaves all sorts of baggage for her successor to deal with; and she seems to encourage an anti-intellectuality that rewards ignorance. These are all descriptions of Fmr. President Bush.

Warped, it is possible S. Palin can’t be a mom, be governor, and learn all she needs to learn to equip herself for the media in a presidential run. If her sights are set on the W.H., she needs some very serious down time in the books of history, economics, and foreign affairs. Bush B.S.’d his way into voter’s grace with a lot of help from the GOP machine. I don’t think the American public will be that gullible again in 2012. And surely, S. Palin understands that as well, don’t you think?

She has to be a pretty fast study to have managed family and becoming governor of Alaska. That’s a lot of B.S. to learn to get a majority of the votes, even in Alaska. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is her plan. To hit the books in preparation for 2012. If that is the case, I again have to applaud her for courage and tenacity, as well.

But, quitting the governorship (the people) to advance her own ambitions, is not a very smart move if the presidency is in her sights.

If, indeed, she tries to use the economy or taxation against Obama in 2012, she’ll have to explain how she left Alaska better off than when she found it, else her argument will be much flawed.

My OPINION is that she has found out she may be facing indictment soon and wanted the time to gird her loins for a serious court fight. That sounds like National Inquirer stuff, but I stress the word OPINION…

David,

“If her sights are set on the W.H., she needs some very serious down time in the books of history, economics, and foreign affairs.”

She also needs a serious personality makeover. She may be the darling of the way right in this country but she will need to appeal to much broader audience if she ever hopes to gain the White House.

If Palin is the best and the brightest the conservatives can put forth they’re in for a long exile.

Rocky

David,

Perhaps she feels that some time away from the spotlight to allow internal self-learning would best. I still think it might have been better for her to finish her term in 2010 first. Then she will have a little time to learn what she needs to know on her own before the 2012 Presidential election. She could also run against Senator Begich in 2014. If she won, she’d have one term as senator and one term as Governor under her belt by the 2020 Presidential election. She would be 56 years old in 2020; which is a fine age to run for President.

I don’t think she has plans to run for higher office though; I don’t think she is stupid enough to think that cutting her term as Governor of Alaska short by a year and a half will help her seek higher office. She must have found a compelling reason to leave the politics profession for good. This means one of two things:

1) She has discovered an exciting new opportunity outside of politics. Maybe she will enter the media; she could also enter the nonprofit sector (perhaps as a conservative activist?); lastly, she might have found an exciting opportunity in the private sector.

2) She knows that some issue in Alaska is about to blow up in her face and she is bailing out now in order to avoid the falling debris. This could be the issue with the firing of the police trooper; a personal family matter that conflicts with social conservatism’s ideals; Alaska’s fiscal crisis; or one of a myriad of unknown issues that may or may not be plaguing the governor.

Marysdude seems to believe that reason #2 is it; I am skeptical about this. Regardless, I hope it is reason #1. On the heels of all the political scandals in the past few years, I really do not want to witness another one.

David: you forgot to mention a third possibility for her disappearing act. Palin is clearly one of the old guard of politicians like Blagojevich, in attitude if not experience, who believe that the country owes them a living (I also include in this category people like Sanford, Foley and Edwards, who may not have stolen from their constituents - actually, maybe Sanford did - but who think that they are free to moralize without morals). She has been found guilty of abusing her power as Governor already, and my guess is there’s plenty more where that came from.

If Palin is trying to dodge a scandal, fair play to her. In fact, it would be the one and only thing she has done that hasn’t made me purse my lips with contempt for her breathtakingly cynical appeal to the illiterate voter. Bush at least tried to pretend he had a brain; Palin seems to think the lack of one is an advantage.

My guess? She’s been hunting liberals out in the woods, you betcha, and she has the stuffed head of Keith Olberman on her dining room wall to prove it.

If not that, then misappropriation of state funds, or channeling highway contracts to her buddies. I doubt it’s a sex scandal, because, oh dear jesus I just shivered in disgust… oh please, please no, get the image out of my head…

“The reason she is the most hated woman in America, by the left, is because she provides the greatest threat to the left.”

Threat?

Yep, you betcha, that’s a good one.

Rocky

Perhaps the FOX is calling. She could possibly get the nomination in 2012 if it looks like it will be hard to beat Obama. Reagan then Bush, Clinton then Bush, Obama then ?

Sarah Palin delivered a rambling, unfocused, schizophrenic resignation speech. Not that this isn’t more of the same from this politician with aspirations and ambitions that far outstrip her intellect and ability. It was bizarre to watch her hop from point to point without any apparent purpose. I hope the GOP has more to offer than this.

John,
Hate to break this to you, but your talking point about frivolous law suits makes no sense. It would make just as much sense to stay in office and run for the presidency because the fundraising can ultimately pay those legal costs.

More bad news, John. The source of many of the attacks comes from within the GOP. Maybe you missed it, but McCain’s campaign manager and Palin’s people just finished a very public pissing contest. Fellow Republicans- diehard GOP members too- publicly accused her of being unprepared for interviews and generally unprepared for the position.

How about a poll? What is your favorite Sarah Palin moment?

1) Accusing her opponent of “palling around with terrorists”?

2) Walking off a plane and declaring ‘government was not the solution- government was the problem’ even as the the private financial sector failed, with only massive government intervention preventing catastrophic collapse of private enterprise?

3) Winking into the camera during her acceptance speech?

4) Resignation speech, in which a rambling, amped-up diatribe wandered from point to point without providing a concise explanation of what in the world she was doing?

5) That moment that tiger of inteviewing, Katie Couric, asked Palin what she read, and Palin couldn’t name anything?

Ah, so many choices. #1 is tempting. It’s just such a classic example of wingnut nutjobbery.

#2 demonstrates such a blissfully stupid lack of understanding of context, such breathtaking blindness, a kind of blithe cluelessness that really is special. Truly, it is Reaganesque, in every sense of the word.

Ah, number #3. Come on, admit it. Didn’t you ask yourself during that speech- ‘Hey! Did the vice-presidential candidate just wink at me?!’

#4 represents the end, the culmination of a lack of preparedness. The rambling speech lacks the punch of previous exhibitions of stupidity, yet it typifies the whole Palin experience. Read the transcript. It’s almost incomprehensible. It reads even worse than it sounds, if possible.

#5 is offensive to anyone who reads. That includes most Americans, but probably excludes listeners to Rush Limbaugh, who are still trapped by their oral traditions of transmitting stories.

How I wish, how I wish Sarah Palin would run for the presidency. It would be a landslide of epic proportions, and finish the GOP once and for all. Ah well.

Palin’s problem is the party’s problem. They made it a heroic act to disregard the niceties of civilized debate and dialogue, to go places where others wouldn’t go.

Palin had the misfortune to combine a chirpy, nice Midwestern accent with that kind of bloodletting rhetoric. Where it didn’t make her a joke, it made her a frightening example of the shear nastiness of the GOP.

She blames the media, blames Liberals, tries to drum up pity, even as she completely abandons her responsiblities.

And worse yet, folks are treating her like she’s smart, something new. No, she’s Gingrich in a miniskirt. She was supposed to be a breath of fresh air, but even as she spews dangerously radical rhetoric against the federal government, she’s been shamelessly bringing home the bacon from Washington.

The only way Palin’s free-associative ramblings of yesterday make an iota of sense is if you view them through the lens of an upcoming indictment. I think next week the other shoe will drop and it will be a big, bad shoe - maybe an indictment concerning Palin getting a free house for pushing through the Wasilla Sports Complex.

Nothing else would crowbar this narcissistic moron off a podium. Her lawyers must have convinced her that she was going down and going to lose the governor’s office. She chose to quit rather than be forced out.

Pianofan,
It seems the most likely explanation- a scandal or indictment looming in the background. There was no preparation for the resignation. No one knew- not even most of her family members. It is possible that the whole things was just an irrational meltdown. But most likely, someone dug up something and told her she was done and needed to resign. Now.

The McCain campaign manager went on and on the other day about the Palin’s participation in a secessionist party, the AIP. There’s nothing illegal about advocating secession, I guess. However, posing as someone so darn patriotic that she might not be able to even participate in being an American anymore, because, gosh, America just wasn’t American enough, and giving a speech offering succor and support to secessionists… Well, that doesn’t cut it.

Personally, I suspect the Romney camp got to her. If Democrats had come up with a scandal or impending indictment, they’d use it, and they would use it right now. Romney’s people have been investigating her, too, and this method of suddenly & abruptly resigning with no notice and no preparation sounds like someone on the inside turned her.

That’s just speculation. We may never know.

maybe an indictment concerning Palin getting a free house for pushing through the Wasilla Sports Complex.

I thought that getting a house from a political compatriat was a prequisite for a presidential bid?

Rhinehold,
Reagan provided the best example of that kind of corruption. He increased his personal wealth more than any other president in the history of the country, primarily through ‘friends’ in real estate. Conservatives went nuts when an announcer mentioned that factoid during the funeral observances. We’re supposed to pretend it didn’t happen or didn’t matter.

As for the Palin case, husband Todd claimed contractor buddies help him for free on their weekends and donated their time. The same building materials were used on the Sports Complex and the Palin house, and there are also ties with the Ted Stevens corruption case. (The Stevens case was rightly dismissed due to gross prosecutorial missteps. As to Stevens being on the take, that was always clear).

I’ve never had a contractor offer to work on my house for free during his weekend, but then, I’m not a politician.

phx8,

I enjoy how you focus on one party, as if your own wasn’t guilty of the same things. You are doing your part for the cause well.

Happy 4th!

Rhinehold-
Obama’s problem was that it was perfectly legal, but looked bad. Palin’s problem is that it’s absolutely illegal and is actual impropriety, as opposed to just the appearance.

It is no less a bias to see equivalence where there is none than to believe that one party or another is immune from that criticism.

Rhinehold,
I have no problem criticizing liberals and Democrats, past and present. However, this thread is about Sarah Palin. She is a GOP frontrunner for the presidential nomination, and without notice, she gave a rambling, unscripted speech and resigned halfway through her first term as Governor. It’s an amazing political development, and it’s irresistable fodder for any political junkie. She gave multiple reasons for the suprise resignation, but no single, overarching and convincing one. Almost everyone, regardless of their side of the political spectrum, is scratching their heads and asking ‘what the heck was that’?

Her political career seems to have been suddenly terminated. She could have said something about the need to resign in order to run for the presidency, but she did not. It leaves the GOP presidential field in disarray, with Romney and Huckabee as the chief beneficiaries of the resignation.

?

Palin has shown herself to be unreliable. There is no way she can ever be trusted. Too bad for her. I hope it doesn’t get generalized to a woman problem, that she can’t be a - mom, governor and still learn enough …

Would those questions come up if it was a man?

Giving two week’s notice to quit being governor is just too nuts. Almost as nuts as taking a trip to Argentina to see your “soulmate”

IMO - Palin just is not smart enough. She never gave the impression of being even particularly interested in learning. She is, unfortunately, what she seems - a hockey mom who should not have nursed ambitions beyond the homeowners association. We can all be glad that she is not just a heartbeat from the presidency.

Not everyone can do everything.

Christine, the came up with GW Bush, and his ability to chew gum and walk at the same time. So, yes, it has come up with men who have achieved the Peter Principle for all the world to see.

In Palin’s defense, I would quickly argue that with her very, very busy life as wife, mother, community organizer, and politician, all she left out en route to becoming a Governor and VP candidate, was a solid secular education. She is obviously a quick study when she exerts her attention to learning something. Therefore, I would argue that if she uses this next 2.5 years to get that education she needs, she just may no longer make stupid comments, entertain stupid thoughts, and engage in stupid decision making. Which could, given her age, still give her an opportunity for national elected office.

I am a big believer in education. I know who and what I was before going to college, and what I was able to become afterward, as a result of graduating from college. The difference was night and day. The same could be true for Sarah Palin. I wouldn’t count her out at this point.

Why I wish Sarah Palin good luck in promoting her agenda and was glad to hear that she did not have an affair, part of me wonders if she did not step down due to the continued ethics violations. For brought before the national public already under investigation to run as VP for McCain. The on going inquires on how she conducted State Business could not allow her to keep her Adminstration on message.

No, I do not believe she would make a good presidentail candidate in 2012; however, I do believe that she would make a great RNC Spokesperson if she could grow a hard skin. For loved by the base and hated by the extreme left I do believe if someone could teach her how to handle the pressure of the media she would give Mr. Steele, Hannity, and Rush a run for their money.

If we look back a bit we will remember that Palin was called on by her party for the role of sacrificial lamb for the repubs in the 2008 election. She did well, ensuring a victory that was already won for the dems. It wasn’t her fault so many conservatives actually took her seriously as she floundered on the national stage was it? Who would have thought?
Perhaps as the world was twirling around at a much faster speed than she was used to twirling she paused for a moment and thought. Upon dong so she realized what a joke she was on the national political stage, realized she had been had by the RNC and the McCain camp and decided to do the right thing once in her political life and get out before it was to late.
I think this bodes well for the repubs as they attempt to gain back some respectability prior to the next presidential election. It does, however, makes life a little tougher for those that pay the bills of our political process, yes corporate America, to continue the dumbing down process necessary for the elected officials to further the corporate will on we the people and the rest of the world. I mean with Joe the Plumber still in the running and my personal favorite Michele Bachmann acting as if she was relevant, Sarah Palin makes sense doesn’t she? Think about it, Ensign, Sanford gone, Huckabee awash in Fauxworld, Newt being Newt, who is left? I say give the plumber and Bachmann a chance it will make Romney seem absolutely gifted as a candidate when the time comes.
Anyway, I have gained a bit of respect for Palin after hearing she had the fortitude to finally do the right thing and get out before she “Bushed” the repubs and the American people any more. Of course I just read about it on Yahoo and didn’t actually see her speech.
Hopefully she doesn’t think that quitting half way through her term will endear her to anyone of voting age. It didn’t work for Perot for a reason.

j2t2,

You are going to find that by 2011, the front runner for the Reps is going to be Mitch Daniels… I recommend getting used to saying the name, you’ll hear the phrase ‘My Man Mitch’ quite a bit.

Rhinehold, Daniels can’t even get the boomer generation right. Obama is not a boomer he still has Michael Jackson on his Ipod.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Boom_Generation

I do agree with Daniels on the boomer generation however he is a boomer himself and we all know when repubs say “freedom and greatness” it refers to “freedom and greatness” for corporate America at the expense of we the people.

“urges younger Americans to reject Boomer vanities and self-indulgence in the name of freedom and greatness?”

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2012/can-mitch-daniels-save-the-gop.html

Palin floundered? The only reason McCain came close was because of Palin. The left, and McCain followers, can feel that way but of course they aren’t conservatives. Palin spoke with courage and confidence the conservative message, I for one would not have voted last year without Palin on the ticket. McCain or Obama…hmmm lets flip a coin on these jokers.

I would not mind at all seeing Mitch getting some momentum going into 2012, this is the first I’ve heard of it but he seems to be an extremely decent option.

David

She can do more good the next 2 1/2 years in the lower 48 giving speeches and free-lancing than she can in Alaska.

As Obama implodes the country more with each passing day,as more people realize that Goldman and the pigs on Wall street have been the problem since the 20’s and that Barry’s new energy bill is nothing more for them to once again rape America, I think a groundswell of conservative thought is growing every single day.

I’d run to the newsstand if I were you and purchase that conservative rag Rolling Stone and see what is really up today.

Sarah will be fine. Barry will see to it

Rhinehold-
He’s got a mixed record. One one hand, as Governor, he helped turn a large deficit into a large surplus. Unfortunately, as the head of Bush’s OMB, he oversaw the exact opposite.

Mike-
McCain didn’t come close, not at all. Obama got about twice the Electoral votes, and several more percentage points of the popular vote.

Palin was a large reason why. Her pick helped seal the deal with McCain as a leaders who was more concerned with catering to a base than to listening to the the rest of the country.

After Bush, people did not want another anti-intellectual, faux folksy hypocrite with a nasty attitude.

SE-

She can do more good the next 2 1/2 years in the lower 48 giving speeches and free-lancing than she can in Alaska.

Yeah, that’s just what the Republican Party needs: another activist making speeches.

If that’s the path she takes, the line we’ll be able to use is that she’s a better at saying things than doing things, and she couldn’t even get what she was doing done.

You’ve got to stop thinking that you can just beat up on “Barry” and the Democrats and think you’ll get back in people’s good graces.

The Republicans are quick, just half a year into the first year of four, to declare the Obama Presidency a failure. With Party line “no” votes, and a loud, sometimes even crass, often paranoid pushback on Obama’s policies, most people are probably going to see more fault in the pushback than in Obama’s policies.

It doesn’t help any that the Republicans are not only reflexively pessimistic, but ostentatiously paranoid about it. I don’t think most people are going to believe that the Republicans gave any policy a reasonable chance to succeed before Obama came out with it. There’s no “The sad truth is, this policy didn’t work.”, it’s “This policy can’t be allowed to work, because it will destroy America! Oh, and he’s a failure.”

BARACK will be fine. Sarah and all the rest of the overheated chorus of naysayers will ensure it, by giving Barack Obama little competition on the stage of reasonable debate.

Sic Eagle, if you believe appealing to people’s emotions instead of reason, to their cynicism instead of aspiration, then I would have to agree with you, she will do more “good” in the lower 48. It is obvious she has done little good in the top 50. :-)

Limited in My Opinion, I do believe the Republicans need to discover a candidate that can lead the Corporate World in America into learning how the Private Sector can help the American Consumer, Small Business Owner, and Taxpayer build a Self-Sufficient Sustainable Government and Society.

And though I do not believe Sarah Palin has that ability, I do believe her principle of standing up to the “Good Old Boy System” and the Status Quo will help Americas’ Conservatives rebuild the Republican Party. For why I understand the argument of Limited Resources 30 years ago and know that My Peers and Community Elders. I also know that that the Children of the 21st Century which includes President Obama realizes that Change in Government and Society can and will greatly expand Mans’ Knowledge and Wisdom of Endless Resources.

Henry, from John Adams forward, the conservatives have held laissez faire at the core of their ideology regarding the private sector’s independence from government and external control of anykind. They believe the private sector is self-correcting and no amount of suffering or losses that such self-corrections may inflict, can justify any outside influence.

Looking to the GOP to lead the way as you suggest is like asking the blind to lead the blind across new ground to both.

David,
Why the Blind leading the Blind is nothing new in the Politics of Man, I do remember when the Democratic Leadership of America was in the same position that the Republicans find themselve in today.

So why I will not hold my breath for My Conservative Elders and Peers to change, as an American I can only hope that Their Children are smart enough to teach their party leaders why “We the Corporation” are Servants to “We the Consumers.”

Mike,

“She said exactly what needed to be heard.”

To who?
She may have rung your bell, but she managed to offend the rest of us with her version of reality, or perhaps her lack of reality.

Does the right in this country have no sense of irony?
You guys have bitching and moaning for decades about the “dumbing down” of America, and between Palin and Bush the right has put forth the two least intellectually curious candidates in at least a century.

“Btw, what did Barry write for his thesis?”

Why did it take her 5 years, and 3 different colleges, and a University for her to achieve a Bachelor’s degree in Journalism?

The answer to these questions is, for what bizarre reason do I truly need to care?

Rocky

mike-
If we needed messengers, we’d hire Western Union. We need people who can govern well. Palin, apparently, can’t walk and chew gum at the same time on matters of policy and politics.

But let’s, for the sake of argument, talk about what it means to be a good messenger.

People listening to her resignation speech found it meandering, confusing, unconvincing. It matters. The very message sent by an abrupt, unusual, and largely unexplained withdrawal from the Governor’s position in Alaska was bad enough. Her speech did little to make it any clearer.

She tried to sell herself as a conservative, female Obama, a charismatic figure who could appeal broadly, who could eloquently state her party’s position. She tried to sell herself as above her states endemic corruption. She tried to set herself up as being a moral paragon. She tried to set herself up as being a Patriot and a visionary.

She couldn’t sell a damn thing to those who weren’t already invested in her being the next big thing.

I would rather smart people, curious people, skeptical people with an eye for putting conclusions to the test be in charge, than somebody who thinks they’re smarter, thinks their better, but can’t seem to get things right.

Bush had a full term and a bit as Texas governor, and did not quit 2 1/2 years early to presumably run for president (where we are still 3 1/2 years away from an election!).

I am unsure of why everyone is assuming she’ll be on the general election ticket in 2012, as she won’t even make it out of the primaries. She will be labeled a quitter on her constituents who voted her into office by her opponents (fellow republicans).

Put a fork in her… she’s done.

I don’t know, Doug, it worked out well for Obama…

I would rather smart people, curious people, skeptical people with an eye for putting conclusions to the test be in charge, than somebody who thinks they’re smarter, thinks their better, but can’t seem to get things right.

Sorry, Stephen, but it appears you hitched yourself up to the wrong horse this last time then…

Rhinehold… although I think I get your tongue-in-cheek point, I’m not sure the two are comparable. Comparing Palin’s resignation a year and a half early for an election that isn’t for another 3 1/2 years is not really the same as simply running for the presidency two years into your freshman term as US Senator.

Doug, couldn’t agree more. Her move defies all reason and logic if it was motivated by political ambition. There has to be another motive. And it appears her financial situation is it. She was in debt by about $500,000. By quitting as governor, and going on public appearance and speaking tours, she ends up a multi-millionaire in just a couple years.

It’s the oldest motive of all. And is entirely logical and reasonable considering her debt circumstance, if not the most honorable or ethical toward the Alaskan people who contracted with her for 4 years of representation.

Rhinehold… although I think I get your tongue-in-cheek point, I’m not sure the two are comparable

Yes and no, depending upon the argument being taken up. If it is that she ‘abandoned the post she was voted in for without finishing that term’, as I’ve heard some liberals make, then it matches up pretty well. If it is unethical for her to quit two years into a six year term, isn’t it the same for Senator Obama? I personally don’t think so one way but I also don’t think so the other.

Of course, I don’t really have anything invested into her being a Governor or not, nor would I be voting for her in 2012 if she decided to run as president, so the whole thing is pretty moot to me, just making an observation on hypocrisy.

In fact, I am entirely sick to death of hearing about it. I listened to talk radio this morning and that was all I heard from both the left and the right. The only station that wasn’t talking about and was instead talking about the trials and tribulations of healthcare as well as GM’s sale later this week (both of which I find much more important stories) was on the POTUS channel on XM/Sirius.

Of course, I didn’t try NPR, I was driving and didn’t want to fall asleep.

I don’t think the two are exactly comparable…

Obama did not resign his post as senator until after he had secured victory in the presidential election… and the argument could be made that his wide-margin victory in presidential voting in Illinois could be seen as the residents of that state releasing him of his senatorial obligations. Palin, on the other hand, is resigning because she… well… why exactly IS she resigning?

I do not think her resignation is unethical… just incredibly dumb if she has any future political ambitions.

I think she made a Dumb mistake even if she’s broke they could set up a legal defense fund for her right? She looks like a quiter and sore loser even many of the feel sorry folks for her will abandon her, The net outcome is good news for Romney and the Rep party in a year or two.