Third Party & Independents Archives

Obama on Leno. Meanwhile, Rome burns.

What transpired on Leno last Thursday is the 21st Century equivalence of political discussion in populist America. When Jay is “nice” to Obama, we know we’re in good hands. When David was “mean” to McCain, we knew we shouldn’t vote for him. Comedians have become the arbiters of our political cognizance. So send in the clowns.

Media experts and other cultural mavens have observed that Leno and Letterman are nowadays solely comedy shows. If you’re not of a certain age, this might not sound like a profound revelation. But prior to Leno and Letterman, late night talk shows at least had pretensions of being forums for intelligent discussion and interview: significantly Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Dick Cavett come to mind, and to a more mitigated extent, Johnny Carson.

Conversely, Leno’s and Letterman’s show is each night a comedy extravaganza that features one-liners; visual gags; and brief, shallow interviews—all in an effort to maintain the fleeting attention spans of America’s TV-stupefied electorate, their remotes constantly at-the-ready to change channels the nanosecond there’s a lull in the jokes, or the conversation turns quasi serious.

This is the editorial environment in which American presidents and presidential candidates nowadays feel compelled to “communicate” with their vast constituency.

Leno fawns over Obama. The only provocative question he asks the President has to do with taxing AIG executives 90 percent of their ill-gotten bonuses. He wonders if that’s a bad precedent to set. (It is.) Obama recoils as if to say, “Hey, since when do we discuss anything of substance here? For God’s sake, cue up the band and go to a commercial.”

Later, online pundits analyze Obama’s “performance.” (Don’t you love that word?) Pathetically, they have to dwell on his Special Olympics gaff, wherein he inadvertently suggests that disabled people might be worse bowlers than their healthier counterparts. The Most Powerful Man on Earth is on the telephone making his apologies in triplicate before the show even airs.

Meanwhile, Rome burns.

Posted by Stephen G. Barone at March 22, 2009 5:30 PM
Comments
Comment #278275

You’re leaving out Jon Stewart, Stephen. You know, the fake news show that studies show us is where most young adults get their news from…

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 22, 2009 8:37 PM
Comment #278284

…Rome burns, and we fret about the bonuses, meanwhile trillions of dollars are being spent with no accounting. Let’s see how long we can keep out eye off the ball …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 22, 2009 9:33 PM
Comment #278289

roy

kinda reminds ya of the wizzard of oz, doesn’t it? lets draw attention away from the real disaster, the stimulus package, the omnibus spending bill, and obamas proposed budget for next year…….never mind the little man behind the curtain.

Posted by: dbs at March 22, 2009 10:06 PM
Comment #278293

The media and dems have gone crazy over a few million in bonuses at AIG, but Schumer told us, the american people didn’t care about the millions and millions that were hidden in the so-called stimulous and budget bills. Millions in pork projects. A circus!!!

Posted by: Oldguy at March 22, 2009 10:57 PM
Comment #278295

BTW, great cartoon by xkcd:

http://xkcd.com/558/

Wishing the news media would keep things in context:

Instead of saying bailout: $170 billion and bonsues: $165 million it should be

Bailout $170,000 million and
Bonsues $ 165 million.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 22, 2009 11:23 PM
Comment #278301

Stephen,
Having made it a point to watch President Obama on Jay Leno last thursday I have to thank the President of the United States of America for showing me that he understands the problems AIG and other Corporations in America and around the World face given the present course of Human Events. For why I was shocked to learn that he understood that must of the things that have happened is legal and normal, I wonder if the Democrats and Republicans are ready to listen to some Common Sense when it comes to building a society where an American could drive their car home and sell the energy they created to the power grid. Makes almost losing the Trillions worth the political battle.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 2:31 AM
Comment #278304

Henry,

Why stop there? Why not just invent transporter technology and avoid the time lost to society in driving places? I mean, if we are going to invent technology that doesn’t exist yet, we should shoot higher than that, shouldn’t we?

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 23, 2009 3:25 AM
Comment #278305

In fact, why are we farting around with health insurance and the money that goes into that when we should be creating nanobots that can fix all issues our bodies have! It sure seems like it is half-arsed…

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 23, 2009 3:30 AM
Comment #278306

Rhinehold,
I am sort of like Doc on Star Trek whem it comes to transporter technology; nevertheless, I am very interested in the fact that American Auto Makers have the technology to not only solve the battery and limited miles of electric, but do it in such a way that it makes the car in Back to the Future seem like The Limited Knowledge of the 80’s.

For are you aware that an electric car can be outfitted with a generating system powered by methane gas created by the products a Consumer would purchase and other sources that would not only allow the vehicles to go longer distance, but through the saving of unused electric stored in capacitors today? However, seeing that same problem can be solved by using Man-made Wind. I guess in the future Pundits will be crying that the Consumer is making to much money and wish to tax the electricity?

So “We the People” should shot higher than CYA, shouldn’t We?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 3:42 AM
Comment #278311

I think I’m gonna go clear some brush.

Posted by: gergle at March 23, 2009 5:18 AM
Comment #278312
I am very interested in the fact that American Auto Makers have the technology to not only solve the battery and limited miles of electric, but do it in such a way that it makes the car in Back to the Future seem like The Limited Knowledge of the 80’s.

‘fact’? Sorry Henry, if this is a fact then you should be able to provide this factual evidence to me that they have this technology and ‘aren’t’ sharing’. Please provide this information to me, as an electrical/nuclear engineer I would find this information most illuminating.

For are you aware that an electric car can be outfitted with a generating system powered by methane gas created by the products a Consumer would purchase and other sources that would not only allow the vehicles to go longer distance, but through the saving of unused electric stored in capacitors today? However, seeing that same problem can be solved by using Man-made Wind. I guess in the future Pundits will be crying that the Consumer is making to much money and wish to tax the electricity?

There are a lot of ideas, Henry. And there are problems with them all. I have developed a design that is totally electric, uses solar and wind technologies as well as generators from the electromagnets around the axles…

BUT, it isn’t viable yet. It can’t take the place of what we have now. When it is ready, it WILL.

Have you heard of Tesla Motors? They, during the ‘evil Bush administration’ were able to develop and are producing totally electric cars. The problem is… how do we charge them? How do I go on a long trip and charge the car quickly like I can with gas? There is more than just the technology to build it, there are the safety concerns, the infrastructure issues, the cost issues, manufacturing, etc.

In fact, we have a a recent speech by a Ford executive asking for higher fuel taxes because no one wants the hybrid cars that they are forced to make. And we wonder why the car companies are going under?

Making laws and throwing money at it will not solve those issues, not matter how much we wish it into existence.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 23, 2009 5:34 AM
Comment #278315

Rhinehold,
Why I should not have to post Common Knowledge let me introduce you to the For why I know it is not powered by a methane (natural gas) motor. Care to tell me how easy it is ti switch the two motors? And oh, BTW production for the GM Volt is due out in 2010.

And why a Man-made wind power car may take a few years to get through the tests I do believe an electrical/nuclear engineer should be able to tell “We the People” how to safely store the excess electricity generated when the car is not using 200 kilowatts to accelerate or the 9 kilowatts to maintain speed.

And as far as the Ford Executive, well lets just say that I have never known a pencil pusher that could see enough of reality to get beyond the letters and numbers. For if I am not mistaken isn’t this the same Upper Management that said America should not worry in 2003 when gas was going up to $2.00/gallon.

Now, in all fairness Rinehold I know that making Laws and throwing money at a problem is one of My Peers favorite tricks; however, are you aware that under the direction and guidance of President Obama and Congress that the GM Volt powered by natural gas instead of gasoline can be built by every American and Foreign Automaker to replace the 250 million cars and trucks that are on the road today. For do you remember the change from leaded to unleaded cars in the 70’s?

A little bit different, but basically the same problems just with a different result. For the only downside I see with “We the People” owning electric cars that pays us to drive them is that “We the Corporation” will not be in charge of the money. So keeping Humans working might just require a bit more than the brut force of I said so.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 8:07 AM
Comment #278317

Sorry, it should read “…introduce you to the GM Volt”

Now you see why I don’t link very often. However, keep up the good questions for as an engineer are you going to tell me that Man cannot build a Zero Weight 100% Traction Vehicles when almost every Sunday American watch as NASCAR try to keep their cars on the ground?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 8:17 AM
Comment #278319

Henry,

The Volt is a product of Obama? It was through R&D and introduced before he was elected, exactly how did he have anything to do with it?

In July 2007, General Motors stated that it would have the Volt on the U.S. market in 2010,[36] and in early June 2008, they confirmed that production had been approved, with a target of getting the Volt into showrooms by the end of 2010

There are also the Zap (which some think is a scam) and Tesla Motors. All developed in the evil 2000’s.

There is a little thing known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics detailing the concept of entropy that engineers have to deal with. That is why batteries that can do what we need of them are just not on the market yet, it’s a tricky technical conundrum.

As for the rest of the what you said, well, let’s just file that away and pretend it didn’t happen. If you want to talk technology or common knowledge, it would be a good idea to possess one of those two.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 23, 2009 9:02 AM
Comment #278330

Henry writes; “an American could drive their car home and sell the energy they created to the power grid.”

Beam me up Scotty, I want to join Henry on that planet!

Posted by: Jim M at March 23, 2009 12:08 PM
Comment #278332

If someone could invent a car that would run on hot air and bullcrap, DC has enough to last forever.

Posted by: Oldguy at March 23, 2009 12:30 PM
Comment #278342

If we can build a small hand held device that will allow us to talk to almost anyone, to access information from virtually anywhere in the world, given the resources and some good engineers, we can develop and build a safe electric grid for our highways that can be accessed by any vehicle and only when the vehicle computer chip demands electrical energy.

A vehicle equipped with the technology to access the grid and equipped with a 30 to 60 mile battery can go anywhere in the continental U.S.

I also have no doubt whatsoever that our engineers, given the resources, could build a space based solar collector system that could provide unlimited electrical energy to the earth.

Unfortunately, our government and others have big plans to extend our war making capabilities into space and solar collectors in space could be seriously damaged or destroyed by a couple pounds of nails traveling at 18,000 mph.

Posted by: jlw at March 23, 2009 1:19 PM
Comment #278346

“If some one could invent a car that would run on hot air and bullcrap, D.C. has enough to last forever.”

How about a compressed-air car like the one shown at popular mechanics.com.

“Zero Pollution Motors(ZPM)confirmed to Popular Mechanics.com on thursday that it expects to produce the world’s first air-powered car for the U.S. by late 2009 or early 2010.”

“ZPM has attained rights to build the first of several modular plants, which are likely to begin manufacturing in the Northeast and grow for regional production around the country at a clip of 10,000 Air Cars per year.”

“And while ZPM is also licenced to build MDI’s two seater OneCat economy model(the one headed to India) and three seat MiniCat, the New Paltz, N.Y.,startup is aiming bigger: Company officials want to make the first air-powered car to hit U.S. roads a $17,800, 75-hp equivalent, six-seat modified version of MDI’s CityCat that, thanks to an even more radical engine, is said to travel as far as 1000 miles at 96 mph with each tiny fillup.”

Posted by: jlw at March 23, 2009 1:39 PM
Comment #278349

So, jlw, did they have to have Obama in office to develop this technology or did they do it during the evil bush years?

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 23, 2009 2:12 PM
Comment #278361

The “provocative question” might have been what all the jokes were intended to lay the groundwork for on Leno. Steve Kroft was politely tougher on 60 Minutes yesterday, when Obama was laughing about “putting money into the auto industry”. Kroft: “You’re sitting here and you are laughing at some of these problems. Are people going to look at this and say, he’s just sitting and making jokes about money, how do you deal with that, explain your mood and your laughter, are you punch-drunk?”

Posted by: bugger at March 23, 2009 4:45 PM
Comment #278376

Rhinehold,
The Volt is a product of Obama? I did not know President Obama had a degree in automotive emgineering. However, since this American Layman Citizen figured out in the 90’s that you could build an electric car powered by the wind created by the vehicle traveling at 55 mph than I suppose another American could figure out that if you transfered the Railroad Technology to the American Automobile than you could greatly increase fuel mileage while still allowing the Corporate World to sell a product.

Yes, you can claim and even laugh at the fact that the Children of the 21st Cewntury will have a “Boy Toy” that their Fathers of the 20th Century could only dream of; however, seeing the benefit of investing into the production of such automobiles as the GM Volt. As an Adult and a Parent I have to wonder how a teenage boy is going to explain to your teenage daughter how they ran out of fuel.

Jim M.,
Why you can wait until the 24th Century to get Scotty to beam you up, I do believe that you need to cross the bridge into the 21st Century. For granted in the 70’s Americans worried about if the Government was Politically Correct about changing the Muscle Cars of the 60’s to the unleaded fuel powered vehicles we enjoy today.

And why I will be the first to admit that I liked it when a Car was a Car and a Truck was a Truck. Knowing the Telsa has already built a car that beat the Viper in a hands down race I wonder if the Fear of Change comes from the fact that many of My Peers don’t want to see the stunts they pulled as kids able to be done by their Grandchildren.

For why the GM Volt is a first of its kind. Knowing that the General Population can change a Natural Gas Tank for their grill. I do believe that given the Wisdom of the 70’s “We the People” can find a solution to macthing our consumption of natural gas to the lowering of Americas’ dependence on foreign oil as both The Detriot Bad Boys experiment building Electric Muscle Cars, the Oil Tycoons of Texas gear up for a repeat of the Economy of the 50’s.

Bugger,
Missing 60 Minutes I’ll have to take your word for what was said. However, seeing that Labor and Management as well as the Rich and Poor have been debating over money for longer than the United States of America has been in existence I to have to laugh at My Community Elders and Peers whem talking about the Ideology that the American Consumer can have a different source of income other than through Labor and Management.

And why I am sure that such Citizens like Mr. Rhinehold and Jim M. will always challenge the claims of such things. I wonder what their prospective would have been back at the turn of the last century when told that the Gasoline Car that got 3-5 mpg was going to replace the horse as Americans soutce of transportation.

So do “We the People” repeat the first 50 years of the 20th Century or can I challenge My Peers (those Citizens over the Age of 30) to a Debate over Their Argument of Political Ignorance against Their Children of the 21st Century Argument of Stupidity about building a Better World. Especially seeing that President Obama has a degree in Constitutonal Law and can probably explain My Guaranteed Civil and Constitutional Rights better than me.

Jlw,

Amazing what can be done in some backyard garages, I just wonder what is going to happen to NASCAR when the Alternative Energy hits the race track. Could pit stops ever become a thing of the past?

Sort of makes one wonder what will happen when Grandma finally allow boys to have cars that fly? For why I won’t do the math to figure out how Detriot could combine hoover craft technology with vehicle aerodynamics to create Zero Weight while allowing the tires to maintain 100% traction, but I do believe given the Knowledge that if America could hual twice as much weight for the same or less cost at todays prices. I do believe that Space and Time wins again.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 7:08 PM
Comment #278377

henry

“Knowing the Telsa has already built a car that beat the Viper in a hands down race”

if thats true i’de like to see the proof. meanwhile i’ll look on my own.

Posted by: dbs at March 23, 2009 7:52 PM
Comment #278379

henry
not quite henry, but pretty impressive. not your average electric car.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

http://autos.yahoo.com/2008_dodge_viper_srt_10_coupe-performance/

don’t know that i’de want one. there’s still something about the sound, smells, and feel that go along with an internal combustion engine that would be missing in an electric car.

Posted by: dbs at March 23, 2009 8:04 PM
Comment #278380


Rinehold:

Many of these technologies have been in various stages of development for decades. They owe very little gratitude in the way of funding to any President from Reagan to Bush and virtually nothing to Wall Street.

As to wheither or not the Bush years were evil, I guess that depends on where you think greed and selfishness should be placed on the line between good and evil. I personally believe they belong way over on the right side of the line.

Posted by: jlw at March 23, 2009 8:07 PM
Comment #278381

Dbs,
Try Discovery.com in 2006 or 07 for I think that is when I first became aware of the car. However, at the time I thought the number of batteries and price of the car was a little bit out of my league.

However, if you check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDZOBQs60w you can watch the car in action.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 8:12 PM
Comment #278388

There was quite a bit of difference between the sounds, smell and feel of the new horseless carriage once too.

Henry, when you speak of methane energy and wind driven energy, are you talking about a man eating a lot of broccoli before he gets into the vehicle?

Posted by: Marysdude at March 23, 2009 10:37 PM
Comment #278389

“There was quite a bit of difference between the sounds, smell and feel of the new horseless carriage once too.”

yes and many equestrians that feel those sounds, smell, and feel are still superior to the horseless carriage.

Posted by: dbs at March 23, 2009 10:40 PM
Comment #278392

Marysdude,
Well, considering Mother Nature has been using Compost and Dung for years to provide us with warm moist air and the nutrients for the soil so we can grow the broccoli eating by Man I’ll let the Children of the 21st Century answer that question as I walk away from My Peers smiling in Knowledge and Wisdom.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 23, 2009 10:54 PM
Comment #278400

Stephen,
Now I see why President Obama is seeking other media sources to get his message out. For what would Rush and Hannity do if they wre confronted with such Proof of Wisdom. Dare to say that they would try and spin it like Mr. Rhinehold and Jim M.?

Want to know what is more scarier than that IMHO? Having CNBC and the Cable Pundits trying to tell us that they know the stocks to invest in. For if the Media Pundits do not know that President Obama was saying that he would have to ask for a handicap from the Bowlers of the Special Olympics than why should we listen to their advice on how the Market is working.

For why I wish that President Obama would take his argument further than just Energy Independent and fully embrass the Debate of Change. I do respect the fact many of My Peers need some time to learn that they Children do not hold them accountable for being Politically Ignorant.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 24, 2009 12:20 AM
Comment #278407

jlw,

The fallacy of these ideas is first the logical fallacy of if we can….., then we can….

A does not follow B. If I can make a microchip, it does not follow that I can transfer massive amounts of energy safely or efficiently from space.

If I am a carpenter, I can cut wood precisely. It does not mean I can do heart surgery.

How do you compress air without producing pollution? How do you make a compressed air tank large enough, or compact enough, to be efficient and economically viable?

Ideas are easy to write about, actually doing them is called using technology. The second is much harder than the first.

Posted by: gergle at March 24, 2009 1:47 AM
Comment #278408

Gergle,
Ideas may be easy to come up with given the fact that technology is changing everyday; however, trying to keep up with it and still bring a producy yo market that is lightyears ahead of the pack. Well, lets take your microchip as an example.

In the 80’s most people thought that a 286 was fast. In the 90’s it seemed like every week a micrichip was being built that was faster than the last. And today with 64 bit and 4 gig of Ram I wonder what the next generation of microchips are going to be.

Yes, President Obama and “We the People” could wait until the last drop of fossil fuel in the world is sold before letting the American Automakers put the latest revewable vehicle on the road. However, given a bonus of $750 Billion a year in savings from not buying foreign oil plus the savings at the fuel pump by the average consumer. In addition income for selling the excess electricity to the National Power Grid to the tune of $500.00/month for the average American I wonder how fast the Bad Boys of Detriot can build an electric car powered by a generator that will be capable of paying for itself in the first year of operation.

Because why it may have taken the American Automakers a century to get a car from 5 mpg to the 50 mpg some get today. Care to say that the American public is going to allow them to take another 100 years to produce a car that gets well over a 150 mpg given present day technology?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 24, 2009 4:02 AM
Comment #278410

i have one simple stupid solution. Instead of paying the fat cats at corp. take the $787 billion dollars and divide it into the us population of roughly 306 million. every single person would make approx $2500+. for a family of 3, that’s $7500. on top force banks to complete home mods on people that can show financial hardship. that would put money in everyone’s pockets, the entire population would love him and his admin. Granted its like buying us off, but hey, we can use it more than rich man in private jet.

Posted by: shiggs at March 24, 2009 5:24 AM
Comment #278411

Shiggs,
Good idea; however, are you saying that you are willing to give up your home and job for a $2,500.00 check from Uncle Sam?

Now I am not going to tell you that the $787 Billion being spent in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is going to get America back to the Game of Life; however, it is a Good Down Payment in the Debate of Change. For why I may not agree with President Obama and his Administration approach to the Issues of Man facing My Democratic and Republican Peers and Powers-that-Be in the 21st Century. As an Unlearned Unbridled Anti-Authoritarian Child of the 70’s by Freewill and Self-Nature I’ll give My Democratic and Republican Community Elders the same Grace that I give My Peers and Their Children about their argument of being politically correct.

For why I feel comfortable challenging Mr. Rinehold and Jim M. on the merits of their argument, in the Spirit of Being an American Layman Citizen I do believe that My Peers have the Guaranteed Civil and Constitutional Rights to be Politically Ignorant when it comes to build a Sustainable World. Do they not?

So why it may just take me driving up to the Halls of Congress in an Electric Car powered by Man-made wind in order to prove a Fact of Life to some Citizens. Given the Argument held by My Peers Children, I do believe that there still exists enough Natural Gap in Human Knowledge and Wisdom to stand in between the Argument of Being Politically Ignorant and Politically Stupid to know that the President of the United States of America and the Members of Congress can make an Educated Guess on how to make America Energy Independent once they fix the AIG Screw-up.

For why I know the American Worker can easily build the more than 250 million electric cars and trucks needed by Government and Society to break free of the Curse of Black Gold. I’m not getting involved in debating the actual numbers required to show My Fellow Pundits how to use the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 to pay off Americas’ Total Debt in a year.

Since told by My Elders that I have to be nice to My Peers and Powers-that-Be I’ll let Their Children talk them into building a 3 Giga Watt Society out of Zero Emission Renewable Power Plants. And why I am not right in telling them that is what has to be done in order to win the War of Ideology and Terror. I do believe that it is time for the Old Democrats and the Old Republicans of America to realize why the Elders of the 70’s was so quick to tell them that the Sky is the Limit.

For my question to you is when did the Conservatives give up winning the War of Terror. What now that the Democrats are in charge the Rede, White, and Blue does not matter? Because why I realize that President Bush may have not understood what it will takes to prove UBL and the Leaders of Al Qaeda wrong. I look forward to talking with President Obama someday about Being Self-Sufficient as an American Layman Citizen who is not learned in Law or Criminal Justice under the Federal Common Sense Law of 1830/40.

Until than I keep stating My Personal Opinion on what can be done by “We the People” to start solving such issues as Energy, Health, and the Economy. Because why I’m not sure of the exact amount of money needed to bring every American out of poverty in the 21st Century I do know that an extra $1,000.00 a month in income for every American Consumer and Small Business Owner would go a long way to making that happen in the next 100 years.

So as President Obama gets ready to present his $10 trillion dollar Investmen Budget for the Future of America keep this in mind. With oil being tied to the value of the dollar does the overall budget reflect what is needed to transform Americas’ Transportation and Infrastructure to Natural Gas and Beyond?

Also, if Society insist that Every American has Medical Coverage than lets split the difference between a Health Plan designed to keep you healthy and a system designed to take care of those with Illness. For why I have no problem in caring for the Ill as a way to help keep Americans healthy I do believe that it is Wiser for My Peers Children to keep from being sick. For why we have to pay more if we get sick or fall to an Illness, I do see the Wisdom of My Peers to insist that every American be seen by the Medical Profession at least once a year. Even though I would say once every 10 years is good enough.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 24, 2009 7:35 AM
Comment #278412

Folks, the last thing you will be able to convince most Americans is that Obama is a latter-day Nero.

And let’s be consistent here: is he lazy, or taking on too much? It seems the Right-Wingers simply take on targets of opportunity, whatever they feel inspired to do at the moment, hoping something catches on.

I doubt, though, that the Nero Meme will take root among anybody else but the stampeding herd on the Right, which already thinks poorly of him.

One of my principles of communication is that you need to communicate in a way that appeals beyond simply those who take your conclusions as given. This will not work.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 24, 2009 8:31 AM
Comment #278416

Stephen,
I’m not say President Obama is lazy or taking on to much. If you really want to know the truth I think he is being to much of a Civilized Gentleman when it comes to the hard discissions facing America. For why I realize that AIG presents its own set of problems and needs to be handled with a firm hand. I also see the Left and Right so far off the beaten path when it comes to energy independence, health care, and other issues that need to be dealt with that I can see why President Obama used the words “I won” during the stimilus debate out opf the reach of the public.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 24, 2009 10:38 AM
Comment #278458

Henry,

Electrical power is largely generated by coal fired plants at this time. Electricity is not pollution free at all, in fact, it is often more polluting than internal combustion. There is no current technology for semi trucks(the largest consumer of petroleum) to run on the electric grid. Pickens plan is something you should look at. His ideas are practical, using current technology to wean us off oil, not pie-in-the-sky technology that doesn’t yet exist. Using natural gas to convert diesel and gasoline motors is practical..NOW. Obama’s plans run along the same lines. Funding technological developement of multiple alternatives is also a part of both plans.

Posted by: gergle at March 24, 2009 3:38 PM
Comment #278494

Gergle,
No, not pie-in-the-sky technology that does not yet exist, but a different Political Point of View than President Obama and Mr. Pickens about who should reap the rewards the Energy Revolution being invested in by the American Taxpayer. For without getting into things that make My Community Elders freak out it comes down to a simple question of ownership and who is going to pay whom for the electricity and other forms of energy they use.

Yes, semi-tractor and trailers can easily use the present day railraod technology to greatly extend their proformance and range. And why I will admit that a few windmills in your backyard don’t add to the curb appeal, I do believe that Every American should have the opportunity to own (invest in) the equipment needed to produce their Fair Share of the electricity used by the Corporations of America. Because if “We the People” are truely in charge of Government and Society, shouldn’t they be paying the American Consumer and Small Business Owner instead of the other way around?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 24, 2009 6:37 PM
Comment #278519

Natural Gas is great idea for Gas engines and Diesel to, The diesel engine will require a Spark plug though.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 24, 2009 8:36 PM
Comment #278523

gergle-
They ran the numbers, and they figured that plug-in hybrids and electric cars have lower emissions, even when coal-fired plants are taken into account. Given that we can transition power generation to other sources, plugging in is a good beginning that can become and even better ending.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 24, 2009 8:54 PM
Comment #278525

Technology love it! no spark plugs here for natural gas in a Diesel, Duel Fuel.. 90% natural gas and 10% Diesel fuel or Bio Diesel! for the beast of burdens..http://gas-components.com/aboutus.php

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 24, 2009 9:05 PM
Comment #278550

Stephen,

On a small scale, I agree. There is not yet efficient battery design for the needs of large vehicles and long distance. I do like the idea of trading spent batteries for charged ones, leasing, as a means of distribution.

As to Henry’s “current rail technology” I have no idea what he is talking about, nor do I think does he. Currently most trains are diesel.

Henry. Wind energy is intermittent and would only be effective in certain locales. A windmill in every yard isn’t practical in urban areas.

Obama and Pickens are talking about approaching this on multiple fronts. using all current technologies and funding research for development.
But we need to get off oil, now, for primarily economic and military reasons. Natural gas is the best upfront option. Oil will still be needed, but imports can be greatly reduced. We’ll always need petrochemicals.

Posted by: gergle at March 24, 2009 11:40 PM
Comment #278553

“Currently most trains are diesel” yes they are even passenger, Europe uses electric for high speed passenger service and mostly Diesel for Freight, A problem my great grandfather had they were electric and the substations that provided the power used coal the use of hard coal helped and taller smokestacks.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 25, 2009 12:11 AM
Comment #278556

Gergle,
You may want to look up the data before you try to say that I do mot know what I am talking about. For why diesel trains use to be the norm in the 1950’s and 60’s today most of the trains (both freight and passsengers) are diesel-electric or gas trubine electric. Hence, this is why you hear the commercial of a train getting over 400 mpg on tv.

Now, as far as Wind Energy goes are you aware that a breeze of only 12 mph can generate enough electricity to power your home(Look up 5 kW Generators)? Yes, the big generators (10 mW and more) that Mr. Pickens and others are talkikng about do require wind speeds up to about 75 mph which in Natural normally only occurs steadily in certain locations.

However, did you know that you can build an 8 x 12 Wind Tunnel that can safely produce winds up to 200 mph? So now even the City Folks can turn one of their bedrooms into a Mini Power Plant instead of waiting for Mr. Corporation and Mr. Government to sell them the energy they need in their daily life. For why I have yet to work out the exact numbers of materail costs and other installation fees, something tells me that the NIMBYs of America are not going to want a power source generating over 400 kwhs of electricity anywhere near their homes and children.

Yes, for all practiocal purposes President Obama and Mr. Pickens do know what they are talking about when it comes to making America Energy Independent in the next 5-10 years. Nevrtheless, stuck by the No-Nothing Party on the Right and the Conservative Democrats on the Left I am just glad as Hell that the Founding Fathers of America and the Ancient Ones of Songs guaranteed “We the People” the Civil and Constitutional Rights of Common Knowledge and Common Sense.

For why I know My Community Elders and Peers will
never ever allow their Children the pleasure of currently making about $175,000.00 per yr off such an invention. The one thing that this Unlearned Unbridled Anti-Authoritarian Child of the 70’s by Freewill and Self-Nature holds against President Obama is that there is No, None, Nics talk of a National Program in His Budget that allows the Average American to invest and own a part of the National Power Grid, A Better Health Care System, and an Education System that works for All Citizens and not just for the Societal Elite?

But in all fairness to President Obama and Mr. Pickens. That question rests between the Courts of the Land and My Peers Unalienable Right to be Ignorant about building a Sustainable World.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 25, 2009 1:16 AM
Comment #278557
The one thing that this Unlearned Unbridled Anti-Authoritarian Child of the 70’s by Freewill and Self-Nature holds against President Obama is that there is No, None, Nics talk of a National Program in His Budget that allows the Average American to invest and own a part of the National Power Grid

You do realize it is already a law in most places that any power you provide back to the electric company they are required to pay you for, right?

That’s the real sad part of your diatribe against me, I am actually building one of these homes that will be putting energy back into the grid. I am using the technology that has been developed and is being developed to do so. Why this insistence of yours that we need Obama to do this when we are ALREADY doing it makes little sense to me, unless you are of the opinion that it requires a law, that it no longer be a choice…

That is where I think we would part ways.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 4:35 AM
Comment #278560

Rhinehold,
Why I hope glad to see you have the extra funds to invest in getting yourself off the power grid; however, the Law you state that covers a homeowner selling their excess electricity is probably limited to X number of kWs per month. And why I realize that you are not a big Obama fan, if President Bush would of came out with this same idea a few years ago don’t you think I would be holding you back?

For why the President can choice to the Fund to the Corporations to provide “We the People” the Energy that is required for everyday life. IMPO I think that the money would be better off finding ways to make it so Every American can invest and own their Zero Emission Power Plant even it it happens to be located several miles down the road. And that does take the Action of the President of the United States.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 25, 2009 4:57 AM
Comment #278561
And that does take the Action of the President of the United States.

Actually, it doesn’t. And therein lies the problem.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 6:13 AM
Comment #278565

Nice try Henry I know better.The first all Diesel trains were not praticle not enough power to move 1000s of tons so In quote “response to the Kaufman Act, New York City railroads approached Ingersoll-Rand to build a prototype Diesel switching locomotive (shunter), the AGEIR boxcabs. The resulting unit was fitted with a electrical generator and traction motors supplied by GE, as well as a form of Lemp’s control system, and was delivered in July 1925. These locomotives demonstrated that the Diesel-electric power unit could provide many of the benefits of an electric locomotive without the railroad having to bear the sizeable expense of electrification”“

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 25, 2009 9:17 AM
Comment #278566

And the Fast ones are all electric because the gas turbine is such a Gas HOG!! “”Gas turbines were selected for their small size, good power-to-weight ratio, and ability to deliver high power over an extended period. The first prototype, TGV 001, was the only TGV constructed with this engine - following the increase in the price of oil during the 1973 energy crisis, gas turbines were deemed impractical and the project turned to electricity from overhead lines. The electricity was to be generated by France’s new nuclear power stations.”“”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_railed_vehicles

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 25, 2009 9:48 AM
Comment #278621

Rhinehold,
Why you might get your local representative to increase the amount of electricity produced by an Individual above the personal consumption; however, at some point the home opwner stops producing electricity for personal consumption and begins the journey to becoming a power station. And that is where the President of the United States has to step in.

For if America was to allow Every American to produce 400-2,500 kWh on or off their Personal Property than what does the Electric Corporations do? And yes, a Fundamental Change in the way America does business does require the President. Why? well that is a question that you need to ask the Democratic and Republican Leaders and Scholars.

Rodney,
Why you say “Nice try Henry I know better” I hope that if the World can use diesel-electric to power trains, ships, and subs as well as other big machinary than powering a semi-tractor capable of hualing 80,000 lbs. should not be a problem.

Ref.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 25, 2009 6:57 PM
Comment #278637

Henry, what about the 30 million existing Diesel Big trucks and Buses and small trucks and cars that are on the road today in perfect shape would they not benefit from a $2,500 part that would allow them to save 45% of there fuel bill every year by going to a system that allowed them to burn 90% natural gas and 10% diesel fuel or bio diesel fuel? I thought we were running out of Oil or at least low as last year proved at $5.79 a gallon. And another benefit a 30% to 40% reduction of co2 and 60% cleaner.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 25, 2009 9:01 PM
Comment #278638

Rodney,
Why I am not sure where you get 30 million existing Diesel Big trucks and Buses and small trucks and cars from, but the number is over 250 million. And though the American Auto Worker is good I do believe that it is going to take them more than a year to build every American a new car. So I wonder if the drop in Auto Sales has more to do with they fact that most Americans are waiting on the new electric/natural gas cars or the lack of credir.

Any why the 30 million vehicles you are talking about will in 10 years need to be replaced regardless of their condition today.

Ref.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_vehicles_in_the_United_States

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 25, 2009 9:52 PM
Comment #278645
And yes, a Fundamental Change in the way America does business does require the President. Why? well that is a question that you need to ask the Democratic and Republican Leaders and Scholars.

In other words, you don’t know and you can’t explain it because you are taking this position on faith. Which is fine, just own up to it.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 11:10 PM
Comment #278650

Rhinehold,
No, I’m just trying to protect your Guaranteed Civil and Constitutional Right to be Ignorant and still be Unalienable Right.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 25, 2009 11:32 PM
Comment #278653

If you were concerned about Constitutional rights you wouldn’t be defending things that fly in the face of that very document.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 11:48 PM
Comment #278654

So Henry. I have a copy of the Constitution here, I’m sure you have one as well. Please point to me where, in the Constitution, the Federal government has the power to direct education in the country.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 11:51 PM
Comment #278656

And, BTW, it is with great interest to me that great men like Thomas Jefferson would be rolling in their graves to see what we have done with their sacrifices…

“I do verily believe that..a single, consolidated government would become the most corrupt government on the earth.” —Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800.

And so it has.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 25, 2009 11:59 PM
Comment #278660

This is a rhythm !

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 12:22 AM
Comment #278667

Rhinehold,
Read the 9th Amendment. Seems that our ancestors thought it was better to have a bunch of Educated Citizens running around in public than a bunch of Ignorant Fools. Why do you think that a colledge degree brings more money than a high school diploma in the Real World.

As far as being a single political nation. Not as long as a Lady and Gentle can speak freely, but Politically Speaking; I don’t see that happening when Management keeps insisting that they can do a better job than Labor.

And yes Rodney it is a rhythm!

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 26, 2009 1:24 AM
Comment #278669
Read the 9th Amendment.

I know the amendment well.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

How does that have anything to do with usurping the limits on the roles of government in the constitution?

Let’s look at what the Madison said when he introduced the amendment.

The exceptions here or elsewhere in the constitution, made in favor of particular rights, shall not be so construed as to diminish the just importance of other rights retained by the people; or as to enlarge the powers delegated by the constitution; but either as actual limitations of such powers, or as inserted merely for greater caution.

It is quite clear that the intent was to ensure that the document was a limitation on what government could do, not a listing of what rights the citizenry were allowed to keep. There is no where in the constitution giving the congress or the executive branch the right to usurp the state administration of education, therefore the federal government should not have that power unless an amendment were issued.

Later courts have corrupted that intent of the founders, sadly. Many judges today ignore the intent of the founders for expediency and political power. It is unfortunate, the same mentality that has take from us the most basic of rights of private property recently. But we should be working to restore that intent, not turn it on its head.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2009 2:00 AM
Comment #278671

Rhinehold,
As an Uncilized Gentleman you do not want me to answer that (ask David); however, like I said I guess our Ancestors and Founding Fathers thought that Education was so important that they made it a requirement by allowing Landowners who was mostly educated to vote. Hence, the Learned and Unlearned of Society.

And why we still have not got it right, cross the “Bridge into the 21st Century” to get the answer.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 26, 2009 2:24 AM
Comment #278676
As an Uncilized Gentleman you do not want me to answer that (ask David)

I’m sorry, but you were the one that said the 9th amendment was the answer, I’m just asking you to explain that view to me when it appears, to me, to be the exact opposite of what you suggest.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2009 3:20 AM
Comment #278679

Rhinehold,
Yes, you are entitled to your personal opinion just as I am entitled to mine. Something to do with the words like tomato, who cares; however, prove that I am a Civilized Gentleman as an Unlearned Unbridled Anti-Authoritarian Child of the 70’s by Freewill and Self-Nature. Because why I enjoy debating you and the merits that you bring to the battle for a Better World. Telling an American Citizen that they cannot do something is about the quickest way I know a person can be found to be wrong don’t you think?

But in all honesty Rhinehold, I’m not Civilized just ask Grandma.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 26, 2009 3:45 AM
Comment #278698

Which brings up my suggestion that the Republic has way to much democracy. States rights, foreign policy and almost any issue government deals with is now done solely for economic and/or expediency. All are in favor of ‘giving it to the federal government’ as that will simply the situation. Even now, with his budget, Obama is attempting to give the federal government even more centralized control over everything, everywhere, and everybody. A few states are returning bailouts because of federal strings attached, but most aren’t. Why do the border states cry for the feds to come save them? Any one, or all of them could put natl’ guard troops on the border today if they so chose. The Constitution seems little more than a fancy piece of paper these days. Right now the fed is looking to a new fangled ‘eminent domain’ process to take land and property for the new electrical grid. A water bill is being pushed in congress to give the fed control of all waters in the country. The NAFTA highway coming through Texas is to take 500,000 acreas of farm land. 50% of graduate degrees are issued to foreign students. Is that a business operated by the foreign policy side of the federal government or is it a new way for the states to educate their citizens, etc. Way too much democracy for our own good.

Otherwise, we have the government we deserve.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at March 26, 2009 9:51 AM
Comment #278710

Henry said, “And yes Rodney it is a rhythm!” You Think! seriously using a barrel of oil for an example only what 20% of that barrel can be used for Diesel fuel the pie is much smaller for diesel fuel than gas internal combustion engines, Diesel competes with heating fuel oil and Jet fuel and many other diesel type of fuels and products made from that tiny bit of oil in that barrel as we was a witness to last July when diesel hit $ 5.79 a gallon in some states , I won’t get into stupid policies by our government that helped cause the shortage and helped lead to the over speculation of oil , Now factor in that the farmers and trucking companies and most all transportation uses that precious little bit of diesel fuel , Don’t you think that they would benefit the most first with the installation of a cheap device that allowed them to save 45-50 percent of there fuel costs and the network of infrastructure to service them for natural gas and we the people would benefit from the reduced cost of food and heating oil and jet fuel and transportation and products and so on sort of a trickle down approach but everyone benefits, Then after that was accomplished in a year or so move on to Gasoline burning vechiles as a homeowner with a natural gas meter on your property you can fill up your own vechile at home when we are equipped to burn Natural gas. planning and priority and being practical.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 11:55 AM
Comment #278718

And this would be real sweet with Natural gas 180 MPG if you need to go farther than 40- 50 miles in a day or night. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 1:04 PM
Comment #278719

GM says 7,500 workers take incentives to leave, Chrysler extends retirement, buyout deadline
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-says-7500-hourly-workers-apf-14755216.html

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 1:15 PM
Comment #278734

Wait a sec… are you saying that a company, taking government money, are giving taxpayer money to people who are then leaving the company? People who were a part of the company when it was not doing well? …

Um, where is the OUTRAGE!?

(yes, for those that miss it, this is IRONY)

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2009 3:12 PM
Comment #278743

I’m not saying anything there:) IMHO Ford and The UAW and It’s Workers Settled differently;)

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 3:51 PM
Comment #278804

And the technology is getting better for electric cars capable of between 160 and 300 miles (257 and 482 kilometers) per charge.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090326/ts_afp/usautoteslaelectriclead_20090326224034

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 26, 2009 9:39 PM
Comment #278817

What is telling, though, is that during the election, McCain brought up battery technology as being the key in moving towards electric cars and was laughed out, ridiculed, by the Democrats running for office at the time. Even though he was right.

I’m starting to see a lot of areas where McCain was right (earmarks, foundations of economy being strong, Iraq, battery technology…) and those views now being adopted by the left.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2009 10:40 PM
Comment #278832

McCain I liked I might have voted for him if he had picked a Susan collins or to that effect But when he picked Sarah I was Saddened .

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 27, 2009 12:11 AM
Comment #278867

yeah Rodney, kinda like I felt when Perot chose the senile admiral for a running mate.

Posted by: roy ellis at March 27, 2009 11:07 AM
Comment #278953

Yep Roy It had that same effect on me for perot to. And I’ll tell you the blue collar Dems up here didn’t buy Sarah at all.

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 27, 2009 6:30 PM
Comment #279001

I think President Obama was smart to say that he would listen to Mr. T. Boone Pickens plan to make America Energy Independent and it was Rush and Company that got the slogan “Drill Baby Drill” that turned off most of My Peers and Their Children.

Of course selecting VP Biden probably went a long why in getting many of My Elders to feel secure.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at March 28, 2009 4:13 AM
Comment #279011

””“I think President Obama was smart to say that he would listen to Mr. T. Boone Pickens plan to make America Energy Independent and it was Rush and Company that got the slogan “Drill Baby Drill” that turned off most of My Peers and Their Children.”“” Said Henry S. I’m gald he’s doing that Henry ,Obama has a Open Mind, That Drill baby drill backfired that was more of a stunt than anything when congress went on break Reps stayed they knew they were history an act of desperation .

Posted by: Rodney Brown at March 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Comment #279191

Rodney,
IMHO that is the why the Conservatives and Republicans are having such a hard time dealing with this Generational Change. For just like the Late 60’s and Early 70’s many still want to believe what they are told.

However, I do believe that the Younger Republicans in America need to speak to Their Elders and Parents in the same manner that the Children of the 70’s spoke to their Elders and Parents over the Argument of Right vs. Wrong. Especially since it is no longer their Fathers World.

Posted by: Hemry Schlatman at March 30, 2009 7:04 AM
Comment #279235

>I’m starting to see a lot of areas where McCain was right (earmarks, foundations of economy being strong, Iraq, battery technology…) and those views now being adopted by the left.
Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2009 10:40 PM

And, how many of these did Obama voice an opposition to?

Posted by: Marysdude at March 30, 2009 2:07 PM
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