Third Party & Independents Archives

Defending Obama.....

No. I am not happy he was elected.
To be honest….I did not want McCain either.
Anyone out there who feels they WERE NOT disenfranchised in this last election?
I mean from picking a nominee, all the way, to the choices we ended up with.

Obama is black....Obama is white...Obama is a SMOKER!!!!!

He said he would stop smoking.
He cannot come out and admit he could not quit smoking.
Being a smoker is as bad as having the plague.
He cannot admit he can't just stop doing such a disgusting, vial, horrendous, socially unacceptable thing!

How could we have elected a man who smokes?
I can just hear people now....
'If I had known he smoked I NEVER would have voted for him.'
He promised he would not smoke in the oval office. Not sure if that's true but he did say smoking would not be allowed ANYWHERE in the White House.

So far, so good. I guess.
My husband dislikes the fact that Obama was elected worse than I do.
I've tried to ease his mind. Really! I have.

I have tried to convince him that Obama will not be able to keep many of his campaign promises.
The main issue with us? Raising capital gains taxes, inheritance tax, and any taxes that will make it harder to run our small business and keep our 3-5 employees. Yes. It's small.

Another issue is our ability to defend ourselves, by 'ourselves' I mean our nation.
Obama began by saying he would start withdrawing Troops from Iraq on January 21st.
He morphed his position into one I believe I heard before by the end of the campaign. 'It will depend on the situation on the ground and what my military advisors have to say'. Sound familiar? At least 16 months.

I tried to explain to my husband that Obama will be privy to information he had NO CLUE about and will HAVE to change his positions.
There really is information 'joe citizen' does NOT know. Information that even the 'last candidates standing' DID NOT KNOW that changed how they feel about issues.

Things 'HIT THE FAN' near the end of the campaign.
I said it before. McCain blew it. He retreated to what he knows...being a Senator. I am HAPPY McCain will not be our President!
Obama won that battle by standing back and 'assessing the situation' before he reacted.

Obama made A LOT of promises.
He is definitely NOT my 'Messiah'

I do expect him to do what is RIGHT for ALL of US now that he will be OUR leader.

He MAY have used 'questionable' tactics...he MAY have pretended to be someone he is not to gain favor from those he needed to propel himself in the political arena. (Rev. Wright, Rezko, Gov. Rod Blagojevich
These things I am not concerned about as long as he did it LEGALLY.
I expect him to be the MAN he said he is. The one who will change poltics as we know it. The one who will give US a Government that works FOR US.

Obama says...'There is one President at a time.' Funny how he picks and chooses the issues he sticks his nose in before being sworn in.

Many things this man does. Many things this man will do.
How many will be similar to Bush, and how many will be met with the SAME scrutiny?
Think about it. He is SIMILAR in many ways....How many of these have YOU condemned Bush for???

Posted by Dawn at January 1, 2009 12:02 AM
Comments
Comment #273009

There have been plenty of presidents,some great ones, that smoked. There are also plenty of Americans that smoke. Its a rough habit to break.Its an addiction.Its also legal. Aside from eventual personal health concerns,unlikely to have much impact in a fairly young man for the next 8 years, wether he smokes or not is a silly criterion to base ones exercise of franchise. There are grave problems facing the nation. This is a time for serious people making serious policy judgements. THAT is why Obama won.
If you believe in equal opportunity, or if you are rightfully concerned about the dangers of dynastic wealth then you must logically support a stiff inheritance tax on large estates. Changeing the law back to what it was before the Republican kleptocracy changed it to placate their masters should not have any impact at all on your business. An increase in capital gains is unlikely to have much impact either. The tremendious deficits run up by the Bush regime must be dealt with or they will be a millstone on economic developement for generations. THAT will effect your business considerably more than the taxes you mentioned.
There is one area of Obamas healthcare plan that should have a positive effect on your small business. As a responsible employer you surely offer a health plan to your employess. The plan is probably expensive. The biggest reason it it so expensive is because other employers,including your competitors, do not act responsibly and the burden of their employees healthcare falls on you indirectly through higher hospital cost. Obama intends to address this by requiring employers to act responsibly through tax incentives and penalties. As a responsible employer you may well get a tax cut on top of a reduction in your healthcare burden.

Posted by: bills at January 1, 2009 8:38 AM
Comment #273012

I have to agree with bills.

As an American you have every right to question your chosen leaders. I would however point out that Mr. Obama has been consistent with his message of ‘one president at a time’. Yes he has opinions on things just as you do or I do. His position however simply means he is not going to trump a lame-duck president by speaking on behalf of the nation before he is inaugurated. He doesn’t even get a vote in the Senate now since he resigned his Senate seat to focus on assembling his team.

Please don’t fall for the “People” thing. I’m sure you love your husband, but you obviously have your own mind. What he does and/or says does mean you do it too. Same goes for me. I know of several drug dealers, even went to a party with some of them, but I don’t do drugs nor do I push them. Extend that concept to Obama - what people around him do does not mean he does it too. Keep an eye on him if you must, but don’t convict him by association.

It appears you are trying to keep an open mind. That’s good because I think you’ll eventually come to like Mr. Obama as your president.

Posted by: Christopher Tracy at January 1, 2009 10:24 AM
Comment #273017

Christopher, I’ll take your advice to Dawn one step further. Keep an “open mind” on Mr. Obama…and a hand on your purse. As it says on our paper money, “In God we trust”…all others are suspect until proven worthy of our trust by deeds…not words.

Posted by: Jim M at January 1, 2009 12:30 PM
Comment #273019

I could care less if Obama smokes a carton a day. If he will address the real problems facing this country and work with Congress to solve them I won’t have much issue with him.
I’m not necessarily against some of the things he wants to do. He just needs to make sure he gets it right.
Before he starts cutting taxes he needs to get the deficit down to zero, and get the debt under control.
Before he starts raising taxes he needs to make sure there’s a real need for them.
Before he starts spending like there’s no tomorrow he needs to make sure we have the money to pay for it. And I ain’t talking about raising taxes.
Before he starts fixing education he needs to find out whats broke.
Before he starts creating public jobs he needs to what it takkes to keep private jobs form leaving the country and to get the ones that are gone back.
If he’ll use that kind of approch to the problems of this counrty he just might make a good President.

Posted by: Ron Brown at January 1, 2009 1:09 PM
Comment #273030

“Raising capital gains taxes, inheritance tax, and any taxes that will make it harder to run our small business and keep our 3-5 employees.”

The first issue the Democratic Congress should take up is the raising of the inheritance tax on the top 1% of Americans. If I had my way it would be retroactive and a raised to roughly 75%. The biggest problem you have with taxes Dawn is the way taxes have been restructured the past 30 years by the “tax cut” crowd. Corporate taxes should be collected as part of capital gains taxes paid by the shareholder based upon the tax bracket they are in.

“Another issue is our ability to defend ourselves, by ‘ourselves’ I mean our nation.
Obama began by saying he would start withdrawing Troops from Iraq on January 21st.
He morphed his position into one I believe I heard before by the end of the campaign. ‘It will depend on the situation on the ground and what my military advisors have to say’. Sound familiar? At least 16 months.”

Ya know Dawn if you are still thinking this war in Iraq had anything to do with defending ourselves then perhaps you should voluntarily pay additional taxes to support an extended stay in Iraq. I propose just the opposite I believe we should bring all our troops home from all countries except Afghanistan and defend this country. We are using tax dollars to defend many other countries and many corporate interests that are not mutually beneficial to most Americans. I believe we should cut our military budget by 50% ASAP and drop tax on the middle and lower class accordingly.

“I expect him to be the MAN he said he is. The one who will change poltics as we know it. The one who will give US a Government that works FOR US.”

Why all of a sudden are you holding the President accountable for providing a government that works for us? Did you hold the previous president accountable in ‘04 for his actions since ‘00?

Posted by: j2t2 at January 1, 2009 7:31 PM
Comment #273035

Dawn,
Coming at it from a different direction I wonder what each of us would do if given the same opportunity as President Elect Obama? For short of being able to change the Republican Loyal Opposition to Everything and unable to move the Hardcore Democratic Barons of Society into the 21st Century the odds that change will happen overnight while still keeping the Political Will of “We the People” is a Hat Trick for any President of the United States of America.

No, just as in 2004 when the Left and Right tried to blame each other for not dealing with the Issues leftover from the 70’s; Thus, I do see the Main Media attempting to stiffle the Movement of Generational Change by pointing out only the worse in Humans. Saying that like the Youth of the 60’s and Silver Spoons of the 70’s President Elect Obama and the Children of the 21st Century will be limited by the growing National Debt, inability to raise revenue, and anything else they can think of even if Logic and Reason proves them wrong.

So, before anybody passes judgment on President Elect Obama and the 111th, 112th, 113th, and 114th Congress of the United States of America working to end to wars, solve an economic breakdown, and pass onto the Children of the 22nd Century a Better World. I should remind you that it is “We the People” who govern “We the Corporation” through the Debate of Labor and Management so that “We the Consumers” can live in a clean safe environment.

Thus, the question is not what can President Elect Obama and Congress can do for us, but what will it take for “We the People” over the next 4-8 years to help the Children of the 21st Century to educate Americas’ Democratic and Republican Civil, Political, and Religious Leaders that why not every problem has an instant cure. But by working together to find a Viable Politically Correct Solution acceptable to Labor and Management just as brothers and sisters are taught to live peacefully under the same roof.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at January 2, 2009 5:58 AM
Comment #273040

j2t2, to become the truest Obama supporter, one is required to follow Obama’s lead, which means reaching across the past difference divides with others for common ground. When you can comfortably welcome folks like Dawn to question Obama’s actions but, support them also when they demonstrate the likelihood of at least partially solving our nation’s challenges, then your own divisiveness will have fallen away and Obama will have acquired another supporter and follower in deed.

One of the great lessons I got from the military was that one cannot be as effective a leader if one has not been at least effective follower. Follow Obama’s lead, and in so doing, become a leader as well. Our nation needs concerted efforts by a majority, and to fulfill that need we must be willing to let go of our old Hatfield & McCoy partisan like traditions and be willing to interact with each other anew, based on today’s challenges, today’s options, and priorities with today’s leaders.

I for one will stand ready to hold Obama accountable to his stated intentions and objectives. But, it would be uncivil of me to, at the same time, act contrary to his lead to work for consensus and bridge differences so that we may all, or most, bring a solutions momentum to the challenges we face, which they will require.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 2, 2009 10:15 AM
Comment #273055

I want Obama to be a smart, wise leader, who manages a team of other smart, wise leaders. Sure I would like him to keep campaign promises, but I tell you I’d be sorely disappointed to see him do merely that, or to get fixated on that.

We expect campaign promises so we can get an idea of what our candidates intend to do, what their style of government will be. But do they necessarily add up to the results the promises point towards? No. Bush fulfilled many of his campaign promises, and in many cases his administration was worse for it.

What I want from a politician like Obama is for his promises to be largely fulfilled, not necessarily fulfilled down to the letter. I want the spirit of what he was getting at, and that we were attracted towards to be fulfilled, not necessarily literal policy positions that might not work as planned.

It’s very easy to make accountability about dogmatic policy positions. It’s easier on the noggin, makes for quick talking points, and its almost completely the wrong way to go.

Results are what matter, not dogmas. For years, Democrats pushed labor laws that increased pay for the average person. Maybe according to some conservative theories, that shouldn’t work, but like the Bumblebee that shouldn’t be able to fly according to certain aerodynamic models, the fact that the model doesn’t correspond to the evidence doesn’t merit throwing out the prima facie evidence that something nonetheless works.

The Republicans economic policies were meant to make the country stronger; no rational Republican would support policies intended to create financial meltdowns. But what is meant and what results are two different things, and results should be what we hold people accountable for.

America needs leadership that is not merely theoretically good, but good in practice.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 2, 2009 4:25 PM
Comment #273063

IIRC, it is against the rules to smoke in the White House, as it is a public building and basically a historic museum. I don’t know if recent, current, or the future occupants will comply, but when someone lies repeatedly about addictive behaviors, they have a problem that goes beyond the addiction.

Posted by: ohrealy at January 2, 2009 6:18 PM
Comment #273070

David I voted for Obama for no other reason than the SCOTUS choices that may be opening over the next 4 years. I did not want the republican party to have the chance to replace more Justices. Well that and their were no 3rd party candidates that inspired me. However I realize he is just one person.
Yes he is the president but unless the Congress can put a bill on his desk that is worthwhile he can only do so much. I don’t want to see a bunch of false expectations set up that no one could hope to meet.
I will concede that Obama has reached across the aisle much more gracefully than I have however. I have come around to having a much more positive attitude about him for doing this so consistently. He has made most other politicians look like well…. politicians, while showing qualities of statesmanship that we have not seen in public officials in many a year.
I have hope that Obama is the true article and will be able to rise to the challenges facing him and us much like Lincoln and FDR did in their times. However he faces an opposition who’s ideology, that despite it’s rhetoric to the contrary, has been ingrained in this country the past 30 years and has set us up for 2nd or 3rd world status within our childrens lifetime.
To allow this ideology to continue unchallenged has been given a chance (well not by me personally) since ‘06 when Pelosi and Reed took over leadership roles in the Congress. This attempt, by the dems, at burying the hatchet has been seen as showing weakness and has not been returned in kind by those on the right IMHO.
That being said I will make every attempt to heed your advice as your comments are right, and I have to say it could not have been stated any better. The good of the nation is at stake and is of course much more important than partisan bickering.
My olive branch is extended for now. I will remove the “failed ideology”, “voodoo economics” and “kool aid” statements I am want to make from any comments of mine on this site for the next few months as a show of good faith to those on the right.


Posted by: j2t2 at January 2, 2009 9:33 PM
Comment #273100

j2t2 said: “Well that and their were no 3rd party candidates that inspired me. However I realize he is just one person.
Yes he is the president but unless the Congress can put a bill on his desk that is worthwhile he can only do so much. I don’t want to see a bunch of false expectations set up that no one could hope to meet.”

I agree entirely. I would have preferred a Barack Obama running as an independent candidate, IF HE COULD WIN as one.

And yes, the expectations psychology can be an important factor going forward. But, that is double edged sword. They need to be very high in order to accomplish much despite missing the high expectations mark. On the other hand, as you allude, setting them too high could result in Obama failing a re-election bid in 2012, and going back the drawing board on policy every 4 to 8 years is A MAJOR factor in America’s impending demise.

“This attempt, by the dems, at burying the hatchet has been seen as showing weakness and has not been returned in kind by those on the right IMHO.”

And yet, Obama won despite the other sides’ refusal to bury any hatchets whatsoever. Therein lies the tectonic shift in American politics, now underway. Vandenheuvel (sp?) I think is dead on the mark when she says American politics and government policy are undergoing grass roots change in the minds of the electorate. What has been promised and delivered in the past has failed. They know this without any equivocation now.

The electorate recognizes now the difference between floral ideological rhetoric and concrete results of legislative direction and administrative policies. They are attuned to this chasmic difference between campaign speeches and government end results. They are looking for evidence of it, and the majority will not give their votes so easily in support of such discrepancies. Obama knows this better than anyone, as evidenced by his remarkable restraint in making campaign promises he can’t keep, and incredible diligence in keeping the ones he made.

It is kind of a chicken and egg milestone in American history. Which came first, the change in the psychology of the electorate that was predisposed to elect such a candidate as Barack Obama against all oddsmaker’s numbers 18 months ago? Or, the candidate whose words, demeanor, and composure which offered a remarkably clear and distinct choice against a background of insiders long entrenched in saying one thing to win, and doing the opposite afterward?

Both, at the same time, I would argue. But, that is for historians to debate endlessly. I commend your deference to Obama’s lead. It is no small thing for a person to deposit their trust and hope in someone new whose words and actions to get elected are all one has to go on. Especially and independent minded person presented with a duopoly party candidate.

But, millions and millions of Americans have done just that. And I would posit that millions and millions of Americans don’t do anything at the same time politically unless there is shared and soundly perceived reason for doing so. The people made the right choice. Now it is up to Obama to live up to their realistic trust in him. Will he do the very best he can with the powers that he has at his disposal in an ethical and legal manner? That is, after all, all we can realistically expect of him, and I am confident he will not disappoint on the major issues facing us all.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 3, 2009 6:26 PM
Comment #273123

Remer’s comments above can be summed up by simply saying that the winner has won. All the rest of his verbiage is just so much pontificating.

Example! Remer writes; “And I would posit that millions and millions of Americans don’t do anything at the same time politically unless there is shared and soundly perceived reason for doing so.”

Wow, what insight. I can’t think of any president in my lifetime, or their opponent, who didn’t win millions of votes. And, we certainly will agree that millions of voters can and are often wrong about who they elect.

Take a deep breath Mr. Remer, and let’s save all the B.S. now being thrown around, and the heroic prose, for a time when some results are demonstrated. You already have an awful lot of crow to swallow if you’re wrong.

Posted by: Jim M at January 4, 2009 3:42 PM
Comment #273135

A crow is wily, it may fly in another direction entirely…have a good breakfast…

Posted by: Marysdude at January 5, 2009 2:47 AM
Comment #273198

Jim M are you not willing to take that first step towards a more unified less partisan government in these trying times? Certainly after the past 8 years you can concede that the public representatives elected by repubs and conservatives made many mistakes and have left the country worse off than it should be.

It is interesting that in ‘04 the margin of victory achieved by GWB was determined to be a mandate for his programs by those in the repub party, yet in ‘08 the margin of victory does not mean anything. Either some wisdom has been gained by those that thought GWB had a mandate or their is some intellectual dishonesty at play here. I would like to think some wisdom has been gained and the realization that previous errors in governing would cause one to look at both sides a little different now.

Posted by: j2t2 at January 6, 2009 1:13 PM
Comment #273201

>Take a deep breath Mr. Remer, and let’s save all the B.S. now being thrown around, and the heroic prose, for a time when some results are demonstrated. You already have an awful lot of crow to swallow if you’re wrong.
Posted by: Jim M at January 4, 2009 03:42 PM

Jim M,

If it is indeed important to wait until some results are in before feeling good about a new course for America, wouldn’t the same hold true for ya’ll nay-sayers?

J2t2,

Good point about the difference between margins, mandates and victories…the re-writing of rules is almost comical…

Posted by: Marysdude at January 6, 2009 1:36 PM
Comment #273970

It is my contention to remember who we are as a nation, including president’s past and the significant way in which they have shaped our country. It’s about time that have a leader with a sense of passion and fearlessness toward his fellow americans. it will be nice to connect again. This is Obama connecting with his fellow Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbj_B6yElz4&fmt=18

Posted by: Andrew Berkenkamp at January 20, 2009 11:07 PM
Comment #273971

It is my contention to remember who we are as a nation, including president’s past and the significant way in which they have shaped our country. It’s about time that have a leader with a sense of passion and fearlessness toward his fellow americans. it will be nice to connect again. This is Obama connecting with his fellow Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbj_B6yElz4&fmt=18

Posted by: Andrew Berkenkamp at January 20, 2009 11:08 PM
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