Third Party & Independents Archives

Our Republic Raped and Still No Revolution!

Are Americans ready for a revolution? What worse than the current meltdown of the financial sector, the unraveling of our economy, and burdening us and future generations with astounding debt is needed to convince Americans that the two-party plutocracy has sold out ordinary Americans?

What we are witnessing is far worse than the taxation without representation that spurred the American Revolution. Taxation with MISrepresentation is a greater evil and shameful sellout of democracy that so many Americans have fought and died for.

Yet, despite over 80 percent of Americans saying that the nation is on the wrong track – BEFORE the current financial crisis, Americans sheepishly seem ready and willing this year to keep voting for Democrats and Republicans. If they had one shred of the smartness and courage of our nation’s Founders, they would overwhelmingly vote for third party presidential candidates to send the clearest and most patriotic message possible to the ruling class that has both major parties in their pocket.

Ousting Democrats and Republicans is more justified and needed than removing the tyranny of the King of England. Our elected domestic tyranny operating as a plutocracy masquerading as a democracy has been raping our nation. Yet middle class victims seem more than willing to keep bending over and asking for more pain and insult as they fall hook, line and sinker for the lies of both Barack Obama and John McCain.

It is far too easy, with the financial sector meltdown, for Americans to only blame Republicans. But Bill Clinton started the deregulation of the financial sector and every evil and stupid thing George W. Bush and Republicans have done could not have happened without the cooperation of corrupt and cowardly Democrats in Congress. They too have inflicted economic sodomy on us and contributed to disgracing our Constitution.

What incredible absurdity that the government seems ready to spend $700 billion to bail out countless crooked, mismanaged and greedy companies (and similar money on the Iraq war) and not ever seriously propose to spend that kind of money on rebuilding the nation’s crumbling physical infrastructure that would immediately create millions of new good paying jobs desperately needed by the middle class.

Now is the time for Americans to wake up, stand up and vote down Republicans and Democrats. How wonderful it would be if the candidate that claims the presidency only receives, say, 20 percent of all eligible voters. This is the first necessary step for we the people to take back OUR country.

[Contact Joel S. Hirschhorn through]

Posted by Joel S. Hirschhorn at September 22, 2008 12:07 PM
Comment #263870

The best revolutions happen at the ballot box.

Posted by: Lee Jamison at September 22, 2008 1:59 PM
Comment #263899

A successful ballot box revolution in November would result in there being no Democratic politicians, no Republican politicians being a part of the government after January 2009.

There will be no revolution in America, ballot box or otherwise in the near future. Not as long as we can borrow from our childrens childrens children to support our way of life, greed and corruption included.

Posted by: jlw at September 22, 2008 5:42 PM
Comment #263908


You wrote:

they would overwhelmingly vote for third party presidential candidates to send the clearest and most patriotic message possible to the ruling class that has both major parties in their pocket.
Unfortunately, without public financing of elections, “the ruling class” would simply buy the third party independents and nothing would change. The key is to strip the rich and powerful elite of undue political influence by taking checkbooks out of the hands of lobbyists and taking free speech rights away from corporations. Until those reforms happen, the system will not change no matter who gets elected.

Posted by: Ray Guest at September 22, 2008 7:33 PM
Comment #263937

Houston was the premonition of real revolution. When the people aren’t fed, the trains don’t run and the electricity doesn’t work, people will tolerate it for a time. Galveston kept trying to keep people off the island, “for their safety”. People came anyway. The elected officials finally saw the light and led the parade that was going to go check their property whether the mayor said they could or not.

When government can no longer feed and provide shelter to it’s people, Americans will be quick to act. I’ve seen it. They’ll simply tell the BS artist’s to move on or pay the consequences. It won’t be flashy. There won’t be much violence unless the powers that be get stupid and try to use the National Guard. The Guard will walk off the job.

The reaction of Jefferson and Washington to Shay’s
Rebellion was to question the intelligence local government, though, not tolerating flouting of rule of law. After quelling the militias taking over courts, most prisoners were aquitted. An election occurred as scheduled, turning out the morons who created the rebellion through non-responsive,unfair, unpopular legislation.

This is the brilliance of our forefathers.

Posted by: googlumpuugus at September 23, 2008 12:07 AM
Comment #263946

I’ve got a very bad feeling about this $700 Billion bail-out.
To me, it’s like trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.
I think it will make things much worse in the long run.
While we have big problems now, this bail-out will probably make the problem many times worse later (4-to-8 years from now, if not sooner).

The Federal Reserve and federal government are going to buy the bad loans at a fraction of the original loan (e.g. 50%).
However, home values, which were already severely inflated to begin with, are still falling.
For a lot of people, it will be a long, long time before their homes are worth what they still owe on them (i.e. upside-down loans).

Therefore, the tax-payers are probably going to get stuck with a loss, because there’s no way to know how far falling home prices will fall.
Especially when most Americans are already deep in debt (e.g. $53 Trillion (; $66 Trillion if you include the $12.8 Trillion ( borrowed and spent from Social Security, leaving it pay-as-you-go, with a 77 Million baby-boomer bubble approaching), and 80% of all Americans ( own only 17% of all wealth in the U.S. (a downward trend that has been worsening since year 1976)?
And what makes anyone think there is a market big enough to buy enough of these foreclosures to break even?

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that this process will also be plagued with rampant greed, corruption, lottery-sized CEO salaries and severances, corporate welfare, welfare for the rich, graft, bribes, etc, etc., etc. What makes anyone think there won’t be? Afterall, Congress is still the puppet for their big-money puppeteers. They are largely responsible for getting us in this mess. They didn’t all suddenly turn over a new leaf.

Also, have you noticed they way Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke are trying to rush the entire process (like a high-pressue salesman)?
That’s because if we are allowed the time think about this, they know the bail-out will probably fall through.
But when did we hand over the reigns of power to Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke?
Shouldn’t the decision to heap $700 Billion of debt onto tax-payers be discussed and decided by Congress?

Also, AIG may not be the last corporation/bank to fail.

After all, IndyMac wasn’t even on the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation’s (FDIC) secret watch list when IndyMac failed. The FDIC only publishes the banks that have already failed (

Many people want to know specifically which 117 banks are curently on the FDIC’s watch list of possibly failing banks, but the FDIC doesn’t make their secret watchlist of failing banks public, for fear of everyone drawing their money out of the failing banks.

Here’s an interesting web-site documenting the current losses for numerous huge banks and investment corporations.
That list of write-downs comes to $1.2 Trillion in losses.

So, is a $700 Billion bail-out big enough? Not likely.

And there’s still the 117 banks on the FDIC’s secret watch list, which probably isn’t accurate since IndyMac never made the list.

HHHMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm … the math doesn’t look good.
First, the bail-out was hundreds of billions, then $500 Billion, and now $700 Billion?
I’m betting that $700 Billion will double or triple before it is all over with.
This bail-out is going to turn into the biggest one-time fraud to steal from the tax-payers.
But then, tax-payers/voters are culpable too, since too many voters repeatedly reward bad politicians with 85%-to-90% re-election rates.

P.S. If this bail-out goes through, I will be memorializing (on a special web-page) a record of the votes of every single Congress person that voted for this bail-out.

But, perhaps enough voters will be less apathetic, complacent, and blindly partisan when enough of the voters are deep in debt , jobless , homeless , and hungry ?
What too few voters understand is that by the time they get upset enough to do something, there’s already years of pain and misery already in the pipeline.
For example, in year 1933, voters ousted a whopping 206 members of Congress (, but it was already over 3 years into the Great Depression, and it lasted for many more years after (about 1929 to 1940).

At any rate, the voters have the government that the voters elect (and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect , … , at least until that finally becomes too painful).

Posted by: d.a.n at September 23, 2008 5:00 AM
Comment #263962

“Spain can run, but it cannot hide,” he told his audience at a rally in St. Louis. “I am fully prepared to invade Spain, and if that means sending troops to South America, where Spain is located, then so be it.”

The Arizona senator seemed momentarily caught off-guard when a reporter suggested that Spain might be located in Europe, and not in South America, but Mr. McCain soon shot back, calling the reporter’s comment “naive.”

“That’s the old kind of thinking that I’m going to change when I get to Washington,” Sen. McCain said. “My friends, when I am President, I will redraw the map.”

If this isn’t ample evidence of the need for a revolution then I don’t know what is necessary to motivate the people.

Posted by: NapaJohn at September 23, 2008 9:51 AM
Comment #263969


A great link. And this is the man that would be president. I am not so sure he would be an upgrade at this point. I think your link very clearly makes that point. Thanks for the sad laugh!

Posted by: RickIL at September 23, 2008 10:28 AM
Comment #263971


It is good to see the numbers man back. I think suspicions of taxpayer theft by a less than scrupulous government are at the forefront of most working class minds. For the second time this morning I am hearing assurances by Bush. Quite frankly they are worth less than a share of Lehman Bros. stock right now.

Posted by: RickIL at September 23, 2008 10:32 AM
Comment #263987

We will have a revolution in this country only when people have suffered as much pain as they can take. And I’m afraid that we aint suffered enough yet.
How much longer we will tolerate being raped by our employees I don’t know. But folks are starting to get fed up with it. The only problem is a whole heap of them think that just changing the major party in power will solve the problem.
This country can’t afford to keep ignoring the major problems facing it. But as long as folks are content to vote for the plutocracy that’s been raping this country for the last 50 years the problems won’t be addressed. At least not in an intelligent manner that will solve the problems and not make them worse.
And while the voters continue to fall of the lies of the Repubocrats, they keep having contests to see who can lie the best to the voters and get elected.

Welcome back!
I’m queasy about the $700 billion bailout too. The only two things I really see it dong is adding to the debt our grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren will have to pay, and rewarding criminals.

There are three kinds of liars. Liars, damned liars, and politicians.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 23, 2008 1:02 PM
Comment #263991


Thanks. Yes, voters are justified to be suspicious.

Unfortunately, voters’ suspicions are worthless unless enough voters also translate their suspicions and dismal 9% approval ratings for do-nothing Congress into equally low re-election rates of 9% (or lower) too (instead of the cu$hy 85%-to-90% re-election rates they enjoy).

Unfortunately, that’s not likely to happen, because too many voters prefer to repeatedly reward Congress with 85%-to-90% re-election rates.

As a result, like repeatedly rewarding a child for bad behavior, or like a rat in a Skinner box that is rewarded with a food pellet for pushing a lever, Congress simply gets more and more spoiled and corrupt. Unfortunately, too many voters want to fuel and wallow in the partisan warfare, rather than vote responsibly to make government more responsible and accountable too.

Even if enough voters chose this coming 4-NOV-2008 to do as unhappy voters did in year 1933 (and vote-out a whopping 206 members of Congress), and while late is better than never, the majority of voters will not avoid the painful consequences of decades of fiscal and moral bankruptcy.

People like David Walker (former U.S. Comptroller) tried to warn us for many years, and many people (including some here) called him a “Doom’s Dayer”, “Pessimist”, “The Sky is Falling Chicken Little”. Too many voters choose to see the world through rose-colored glasses. Too few voters understand the size of the nation-wide debt, the pyramid nature of the monetary system, the abuses causing the continued deterioration of economic conditions, and the corruption in THEIR own party. While a complete economic melt-down may still be a few years away, we are getting closer and closer to that day, when the nation-wide debt is so huge, few people will be able to carry any more debt. Especially when 80% of all Americans only own 17% of all wealth, and the weatlhiest 1% that used to own 20% of all wealth in year 1976 now owns 40% of all weatlh in the U.S. That wealth disparity gap will continue to grow wider as it already has since year 1976. And massive credit card debt, rising unemployment, more inflation, and continued abuses ( will continue to chip away at the economy and the shrinking middle-class. This $700 Billion bail-out will not address those abuses that are hammering most Americans.

Too many voters are PARTY centered, instead of PRINCIPLE centered, which makes them easy to control and manipulate for nefarious purposes. Many politicians love to fuel the circular, distracting, partisan warfare, because it is so extremely effective. It turns many voters into the politicians’ cheer-leaders and attack dogs, while being totaly oblivious to their being controlled and manipulated.

At any rate, the voters have the government that the voters elect (and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect , … , at least until that finally becomes too

Posted by: d.a.n at September 23, 2008 1:30 PM
Comment #263997

Thanks Ron. Yes, I think this bail-out is like trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it. OHHHhhh … but wait. From the looks of the lines at the gas stations in the south east states, we may not even have gasoline to throw on the fire.

I find it amazing that Paulson and Bernanke are asking for $700 Billion NOW, like a high-pressure salesman. Congress is famous for foot dragging and doing nothing. For once, that may work to kill this bail-out.

One thing no one knows is: Will there be a market for all of that bad debt?
After all, most Americans are deep in debt.
Savings rates have been negative for years.
Incomes have been falling.
Inflation is eroding their money.

Paulson and Bernanke are saying that we need to get the economy growing to make this risky plan succeed.
How can that happen when most Americans are swimming in massive debt (estimated between $53 Trillion and $66 Trillion).
No one can answer the simple question:

    Where the money to pay the INTEREST alone will come from, much less the money to reduce the PRINCIPAL to keep it from growing ever larger to nightmare proportions, when that money does NOT yet exist.

And as you may know, like a home mortgage, the total INTEREST could exceed the total PRINCIPAL.

Especially when 80% of all Americans own only 17% of all wealth (a trend that has been steadily getting worse for over 30 years).
Especially when the federal government already has $9.7 Trillion of National Debt.
Especially with hundreds of billions of unfunded liabilities for next year for Medicare.
Especially with $12.8 Trillion borrowed and spent from Social Security, leaving it pay-as-you-go, with a 77 Million baby-boomer bubble approaching.
Especially with rising infaltion, even by today’s measurement method:

  • ____INFLATION RATE (5.37% by today’s measurement method)____

  • 6.00%|——————————

  • 5.50%|—————————-x

  • 5.00%|—————————x-

  • 4.50%|————————-x—

  • 4.00%|———————xxx—-

  • 3.50%|——————-x———

  • 3.00%|——-x———x———-

  • 2.50%|—x-x-xxxx x————

  • 2.00%|-x-x———x————-

  • 1.50%|x—————————-

  • 1.00%|——————————

  • 0.50%|——————————

  • 0.00%|_____________________YEAR

  • ______2___2___2___2____2

  • ______0___0___0___0____0

  • ______0___0___0___0____0

  • ______6___7___7___8____8


Also, here’s something interesting about inflation.
Did you know that the way the government measures inflation has changed several times, and if you reverted to those previous methods used a few decades ago, the reported inflation rate would be much higher (almost tripled) now than the currently reported 5.37% (as of 31-AUG-2008) ?

Check this out.

Remember the double-digit inflation of the late 1970s and early 1980s?

If we were to measure inflation the way it was done in year 1983 or 1998, then inflation is really 9.8% or 15.6% respectively.
Well, by the pre-1983 inflation measurement method, we currently have 15.6% inflation!
And by the 1983-to-1998 inflation measurement method, we currently have 9.8% inflation!
Inflation is a lot more than most people think it is.

On top of that, the taxes paid are not included in the CPI (Consumer Price Index) calculations, despite federal taxes as high as 31% for some people.

Also, consider the cost of many things in the past and today:

  • [01] A postage stamp in year 1950 was 3 cents; in year 2008, it costs 42 cents (1,400% inflation = 4.74% per year for 58 consecutive years).

  • [02] A gallon of 90 Octane full-service gasoline cost 25 cents in 1950; today it costs $3.84 (1,536% inflation = 4.91% per year for 58 consecutive years).

  • [03] A house in 1959 cost $14,100; today’s median home price is $213,000 (1,511% inflation = 4.88% per year for 58 consecutive years).

  • [04] An ice cream cone in year 1950 cost 5 cents; today it costs $2.50 (5,000% inflation = 7.1% per year for 58 consecutive years);

  • [05] A dental crown in year 1990 cost $200; today it costs $1,100 (550% inflation = 11.3% per year for 18 consecutive years).

  • [06] Monthly government Medicare insurance premiums paid by seniors was $5.30 in 1970; its now $96.40 (1,819% inflation = 11.34% per year for 28 consecutive years; up 70% in the past 5 years);

  • [07] Several generations ago a person worked 1.4 months per year to pay for government; now the average person works 5 months per year to pay taxes;

  • [08] In the past, one wage-earner families lived well and built savings with minimal debt, many paying off their home and college, and educating children without loans. How about today?

Based on that, what do you really think the real inflation rate is ?
I think inflation is a LOT higher than the 5.37% reported for August, 2008.
Once again, why does it appear that our government is constantly lying to us?

We have had incessant inflation every consecutive year since year 1956, which is essentially exponential inflation, and that inflation (among other abuses) is being used to cleverly extract wealth from the many (i.e. middle class) and give it the a few (as evidenced by the wealth disparity trend since year 1976).

Perhaps similar suspicious modifications have been made to the way unemployment and other economic indicators are measured?

At any rate, the voters have the government that the voters elect (and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect , … , at least until that finally becomes too painful).

Posted by: d.a.n at September 23, 2008 2:08 PM
Comment #264019

d.a.n said: Where the money to pay the INTEREST alone will come from, much less the money to reduce the PRINCIPAL to keep it from growing ever larger to nightmare proportions, when that money does NOT yet exist.

Ya mean it aint already at nightmare proportions? $9.7 trillion gives me nightmares even while I’m awake.
It’s almost a damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t with this bailout. Can we really afford to let our financial institutions fail? But how can we afford to bail them out? Specially with today’s economy? I can see where either way we go the tax payers will end up paying the tab.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 23, 2008 3:52 PM
Comment #264061

Ron, You’re right. It’s already at nightmare proportions. So whats a few hundred billion more?

By the way, that $9.7 Trillion of National Debt does not include all current federal debt. The government refuses to document the $12.8 Trillion borrowed and spent from Social Security, leaving it pay-as-you-go, with a 77 Million baby-boomer bubble approaching. And that does not include the hundreds of billions of unfunded Medicare liabilities for the next year, nor the unknown costs for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ron wrote: It’s almost a damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t with this bailout. Can we really afford to let our financial institutions fail?
It already has failed. This bail-out will simply make things worse later. In a few months, or a year, we’ll be right back in the same trouble, except worse. Should we then throw a couple more Trillion dollars at the problem?

This bail-out is going to require massive borrowing and creating money out of thin air.

While we have a big problem now, just think how bad it will be if the value of the U.S. Dollar becomes worthless. The rampant creation of money out of thin air is already out of control. The federal government is creating hundreds of billions of new money out of thin air each year already.

And as you can see from Check this inflation graph, current inflation is already 15.6% based on the pre-1983 inflation measurement method.

At any rate, the voters have the government that the voters elect (and re-elect, and re-elect, and re-elect , … , at least until that finally becomes too painful).

Posted by: d.a.n at September 23, 2008 8:51 PM
Comment #264076

This is nothing new. It is just the biggest bust since the Great Depression. First, the ripoff. Second, the bailout. Third, the inflation. Now that consumer debt is higher than GDP, the question is, do consumers have enough left to satisfy the capitalists needs?

They knew this was coming for several years now. I am sure the Treasury Dept. has been planning for the demise of the dollar. I bet they have a huge stockpile of Ameros just waiting for the appropriate moment.

Posted by: jlw at September 24, 2008 1:22 AM
Comment #264077

The thing that really frosts me about this bailout is that criminals are bring rewarded. If I ran my business like the financial companies have run theirs I’d get put under the jail. Not rewarded for it. And I’m not publicly traded.
Here these crooks are running publicly traded corporations and bilking their investors out of millions, and the government wants to reward them by giving them more money to squander.
I’d sure like to see some criminal investigations and some charges filed against the CEOS and CFOS. But I somehow doubt it’ll be happening anytime real soon.
And they say crime doesn’t pay.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 24, 2008 1:28 AM
Comment #264078

Ron, looks like something is getting started. Hard to tell how far it will go, but we can hope they dig deep enough to find a lot of dirt!

Posted by: janedoe at September 24, 2008 1:34 AM
Comment #264091

does that revolution come before or after the holy war?

Posted by: onzaga at September 24, 2008 9:44 AM
Comment #264099

Ron Brown

Investigations would be nice. I am happy to hear the FBI is involved, but I don’t expect anything to come of it. When you have congressmen and senators (Frank and Dodd) protecting, covering up, and blocking any legislation that would change anything, don’t expect anything significant.

Why aren’t the Dems, who are in control, calling for investigations? Isn’t it strange, the silence is deafening. If a republican (so-called Gramm) were involved in this problem, why aren’t they screaming for investigation? Is it possible they don’t want to know the results?

I came from a time when the only info you got was from the major 3 networks. Today, anyone can access any info and the left spend all their time trying to spin that info. I love it.

Posted by: Oldguy at September 24, 2008 11:00 AM
Comment #264106

Oldguy: The spin artists have become very popular and profitable. Ask Rush Limbaugh how much he has made off of spin. He is the master when it comes to spin. If spin were rated like porn, Limbaugh would get the highest rating, hard core spin.

Posted by: jlw at September 24, 2008 12:05 PM
Comment #264139

“I am happy to hear the FBI is involved”, thanks for the laugh, oldguy. They claim that they found the anthrax man, now that he’s dead. Maybe they should look into some more graveyards to solve some more crimes. Federal agencies beginning with an F need a big shakeup. FBI, FCC, and FDA are the alphabet soup of worthlessness.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Comment #264181

Thanks for the link. I only hope that somnething actually comes of it.

Oldguy said: Why aren’t the Dems, who are in control, calling for investigations?

Very good question. Maybe they’re scared that they get caught up in it themselves

Oldguy said: Isn’t it strange, the silence is deafening.

It sure is. Very deafening.

Oldguy said: Is it possible they don’t want to know the results?

Very good posibility. Could it be that they’re just as guilty as any of the Republicans for this mess? Specially those that’s been in Congress for any kind of time.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 24, 2008 5:16 PM
Comment #266120

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