Third Party & Independents: Archives

2008 Debates: Part Five: The Republicans: All American Presidential Forum On Minority Issues Sponsored by PBS

This was the best debate I have ever watched, hands down. I say this even though all the spineless Republican frontrunners were no show: Mitt Romney, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, and Fred Thompson. During the debate each question was actually asked to every candidate present. Wow, what an idea? What follows are real time notes and my take on the debate and on who won and who lost.

Why you chose to be here and what you have to say to those not here:
Huckabee: Embarrassed for those who didn’t come, here because wants to be president of US not only of Republican Party

Paul: Pleased to be invited, will go anywhere he is invited to talk about freedom and the constitution

Brownback: Apologize for candidates not here, it is a disgrace, bad for the party and the country. That those not there are sending a message of narrowing the base instead of trying to expand it.

Tancredo: Made a commitment, upholds his commitments. Was only Republican to show up to NAACP convention.

Hunter: Came here for your vote.

Keyes: Unfair to assume that those not showing up were making some sort of negative signal to the African American community. That those not showing up may not be afraid of all Black people but are at least afraid of one, him.

My Take:
I applaud those who had the guts to show up. It is sickening however that none of the frontrunners showed up, shame on them. Moreover I think it is incredibly stupid for them to skip this event as they have just given Democrats a huge gift come the general election. I loved the fact that they had put up empty podiums for the candidates that did not show up, that was very smart because it further disgraces those that did not show up. Also I noticed, and I thought it was incredibly humorous that some of the empty podiums even had water bottles on them that was great! After Keyes answer I was left with the thought that he was there to weaken the negative effects of the frontrunners skipping the event.

If you are elected President in 2008 what positive legacy will you leave for Black Americans?

Huckabee: Housing opportunities will be better, make criminal penalties fairer as regards to race.

Paul: Freer society will take care of everybody individually. Equal justice under law will make an improvement. Drug laws repealed make big improvement. Prosperity will serve everybody. Property rights, freedom of individuals.

Brownback: Focus on rebuilding the family. Open the national African American Historical Museum on National Mall of DC. Official apology for slavery and segregation.

Tancredo: Reduce flow of illegal immigration which depresses wage rates. Does not really answer.

Hunter: 1964 Civil Rights act passed with greater proportion of Republican votes than Democratic votes. Shield youth from pornography. Less taxation. Did not really answer.

Keyes: Doesn’t believe there is a deep divide between blacks and whites. Moral consensus that we are all created equal. Honor and respect creator God. Adopting approach to education that reflect Christian beliefs.

My Take:
Hunter is weak he could not even answer such a simple question. Keyes, well I honestly thought that I was at church when Keyes was talking he sounded like a really really excited southern preacher. Huckabee, Paul, and Tancredo all had decent answers. However, and I cannot believe I am saying this, I think the winner on this question was undoubtedly Sam Brownback. The idea of a African American Historical Museum on the National Mall is a very good one, and the crowd ate it up with applause. I was really amazed that a Republican, especially one as conservative as Brownback actually said that he supported offering an official apology for slavery and segregation.

Winner: Sam Brownback
Loser: Duncan Hunter

Race and Unemployment:
Huckabee: Racism still exists, opportunities are not the same. Unfortunately there are people that still look at a persons face and skin and make a judgment. There is not a equal opportunity for every American yet. Educational opportunities to fix disparity.

Paul: Prior to minimum wage law there was no discrepancy. Minimum taxes, sound money, has bill where low wage people pay no income taxes.

Brownback: Society is still not color blind. Mentions African American Historical Museum again. Have tax policy with optional flat tax in places that need economic growth.

Tancredo: Doesn’t agree with this race baiting. Two things happened to devastate Black community: the welfare state, and also the influx of illegal immigrant workers.

Hunter: Welfare reform of 1990s was important. Help small businesses.

Keyes: Moral structure and family are important. When family breaks down you establish conditions for children to be destructive. Culture of promiscuity.

My Take:
Keyes sounds like a preacher, he really scared me, luckily he has no chance of being nominated or even elected to the office of dog catcher. Paul sounded like an idiot, in that he actually is advocating getting rid of the minimum wage law. Brownback piggybacked too much on his whole museum idea, and really did not have much to say. Hunter and Tancredo's arguments against the welfare state, while I do not agree with them, did make sense from a conservative standpoint. I was especially impressed with Tancredo's mentioning the effect that illegal workers have on America's workers. However I think Huckabee won this section. First he was really the only one who seemed to comprehened the racial barriers that still exist. His answer had a real world feel to it, he just came off as actually understanding the issue and not just being some stereotypical Washington insider.

Winner: Mike Huckabee
Loser: Ron Paul

Is it desirable or practical to send all illegal aliens home? Would you sign bill that offers path to citizenship?
Paul: Does not support amnesty. But is impractical to round up to 20 million illegal aliens. Do not reward illegal aliens. Get rid of the welfare state.

Brownback: For legal immigration not for illegal immigration. Secure the border. Enforcement at work sites. Will not support paths to citizenship, but look at work visa programs.

Tancredo: Enforce the law, don’t call it rounding them up call it enforcing the law. If you enforce the law illegals will start to leave.

Hunter: Illegal immigration undercuts small businesses and hurts companies that are only hiring American citizens because those that hire illegal aliens can do it cheaper. Mentions it especially hurts American construction workers.

Keyes: Control of the border. We lost control because of elites. Blacks are first hurt in the illegal aliens coming in for cheap labor.

Huckabee: Thank God we live in a country people are trying to break into, how great America is. Have to secure the border, because not only of illegal immigrants but because of potential terror threats. Punish employers that hire illegal aliens.

My Take:
First, I am amazed that in a Republican debate or forum, whatever you want to call it, that only one of them mentioned the threat of terrorism directly as an issue regarding the border, this of course was Huckabee. Huckabee was the only one to bring that up and for that he wins points, his plan to punish employers was also rather sensible. Keyes actually does have a point in that it is likely that blacks are the ones most likely to be hurt by illegal alien workers, but everything else he said was just off the wall. Tancredo's idea that if we enforce the law that illegals will start to leave, hahaha, yeah right. That was incredibly stupid, all that will happen is that illegals will be more in the shadows. If he actually thinks that we can get all illegal immigrants to leave on their own than he is an idiot. Paul really did not answer the question he just wanted to attack the welfare state again. Brownback, nothing new there. Duncan Hunter stood very strong I thought, and he clearly won this section. He brought up how illegal workers hurt the American working class, American small businesses, and hurt honest companies who only hire citizens because they can't keep up with their competition who hires illegals. Let me be clear here, Hunter hit a home run. He did better than any of the Democrats did in the Democratic debate on this question.

Winner: Duncan Hunter
Loser: Tom Tancredo

Name one reform that you would endorse to give young Blacks and Latinos equal justice in American courts?
Brownback: Has stayed in homeless shelters and prisons to see what it is like. Second Chance Act which focuses on helping reduce recidivism rates, a lot of it faith based initiatives.

Tancredo: Too many criminal laws on federal level, especially drug laws. These should be on state level. A lot of this is because of disintegration of the Black family and because of the welfare state. Does not really answer.

Hunter: Rule of law based on accountability. Does not really answer. Says jury trial under law is best system of justice.

Keyes: Restore neighborhood self government. Help people more when they come out of prison.

Huckabee: Not a crime problem, have a drug and alcohol problem. Huge mistake to incarcerate so many people who need rehab and not prison. Three strikes and your out is nonsense.

Paul: Individual liberty is the issue. Inner city persons punished unfairly in War on Drugs. Blacks more likely to be imprisoned for drugs, repeal the whole War on Drugs. Wasted more than 400 billion dollars on War on Drugs. Mentions that prohibition did not work and this does not work.

My Take:
Tancredo and Hunter did horrible they did not even answer the question, they could not even name one thing! But Hunter sounded like an idiot when he said jury trials are the best system of justice, while they are he failed to mention any and all problems inherent in the current system. This was the one time when Keyes did not sound insane, his ideas on community development and community responsibility were somewhat vaild. Brownback had a strong answer that I think was the best as far as what Republicans want to hear, but this was not an Republican audience it was a minority audience. Again Huckabee sounds really intelligent and sincere, its just that Paul outdid him here. Now this question was the perfect one for Ron Paul. He was willing to go farther on attacking the War on Drugs than Huckabee did, while Huckabee's concept of rehab instead of prison is a good idea Paul stayed more focused on the racism inherent in the War on Drugs. Also I love the line where he says prohibition did not work and that it still does not work.

Winner: Ron Paul
Honorable Mention: Mike Huckabee
Loser: Duncan Hunter

DC Voting Rights and Identification Policy Regarding Voting:
Tancredo: DC is not a state. It is not difficult to obtain an ID.

Hunter: Why doesn’t DC let their citizens bear arms? If they did that than he would be more likely to give voting rights to DC. Real danger of illegal aliens voting, is why we need IDs.

Keyes: DC was established to be a unique city and to belong to the nation. DC is a symbol. Tells people to move to Maryland or Virginia if they don’t want to live in this type of DC.

Huckabee: DC should have representation because of equality and justice. DC is not same city as it was when it was created. They should be able to vote and their color and political affiliation should have nothing to do with their right to equal representation. Is for ID’s.

Paul: Need amendment to give votes to DC residents. States have right to identify voters. But scared about having a national ID card, and absolutely opposed to it.

Brownback: Support DC voting rights by amending Constitution so they can have right to vote.

My Take:
Okay, Alan Keyes is an idiot. He is an idiot. He sounds like the people who say if you don't like this country than move to Russia when he says that if people in DC don't like that they have no voting rights in Congress that they should move to Virginia or Maryland. Say it with me, Alan Keyes is an idiot. Tancredo's answer was stupid and just ignores hundreds of thousands of peoples voting rights. Hunter, haha, what an idiot he uses this as a chance to talk about guns instead of the question being asked. Paul and Brownback are both strong here, as far as Republicans go, in showing support for DC voting rights, and Paul's argument about a national ID card is certainly true. But Huckabee, I'll tell you if you listened to him he sounded good, I mean real good. He was the only one smart enough to realize this is a forum on minority issues and brought up the fact that primarily minorities live in DC. He was very strong on reflecting on history and a need to change from the old concept of DC, and came about in a non partisan manner.

Winner: Mike Huckabee
Loser: Alan Keyes

What does your health care plan contain to help racial disparities?
Hunter: Have ability to buy health care plans across state lines. Bring back the family doctor by stopping these massive malpractice burdens. Give doctors tax incentives.

Keyes: Bring back the family, support married couples, support marriage and two parent households. Doesn’t really answer.

Huckabee: Put money on prevention side instead of intervention. Portable medical records, that go with you. Have individuals buying in on insurance.

Paul: Managed care has not worked well. Get government out of the way. Inflation wipes out the middle class. We don’t have enough competition.

Brownback: Wants more markets instead of more government. Government does not give us higher quality service. Expand health savings accounts.

Tancredo: It’s your health care, personal responsibility to stay healthy. Look at yourselves individually, individual responsibility works.

My Take:
Now this is harder cause I basically agree with none of them on any of what they said. But again Keyes is an idiot, and should be running for preacher of some church in the south. Brownback and Paul I do not agree with at all but have at least a logical opinion. Hunter's idea of giving doctor's tax incentives makes some sense. Tancredo made a very solid argument, which I kind of agree with, I agree with him that we need to take personal steps to help ourselves and we need to become healthier. That we need to look at our own choices and make the right choices for our health. However I still support national health care, so obviously I don't completely agree with him. Huckabee's idea of putting money into prevention rather than intervention also rang true and had its good parts.

Winners: Mike Huckabee and Tom Tancredo
Loser: Alan Keyes

Iraq:
Keyes: Iraq is an effort to protect USA. Real goal is security for people in America.

Huckabee: We have not kept our promises to veterans, have many of them had to wait in line for health care. Veterans get benefits paid guaranteed first.

Paul: Oath to obey the Constitution. We went in under false pretenses and are still there. We better take care of them when they come home. All the money is going overseas to perpetuate this war.

Brownback: Biden-Brownback bill three state solution. Iraq is less a country than it is three groups of people.

Tancredo: Cannot micromanage war from Congress.

Hunter: Will leave in victory. Have a reliable Iraqi army to hand it off to.

My Take:
Hunter, Tancredo, and Keyes pretty much just said the Bush line so thats enough said on them. Now while Huckabee is for continuing the war and I am not I did like a lot of what he had to say. He made the case that whether you agree with the war or not that one thing should be certain: that we are going to take care of our troops and give them the best possible care available. So Huckabee did great I think. I just don't buy that three state solution concept, but if you do than well you liked Sam Brownback. Paul did what Huckabee did well, in that he said we need to take care of our troops but also said what I wanted to hear which was that he will get us out. So, Paul is the winner in my mind but since this is a Republican forum Huckabee is the real winner of this section.

Winner: Mike Huckabee
Losers: Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Alan Keyes

Genocide in Darfur what is U.S. roles:
Huckabee: Yes, but we also need to address extraordinary poverty in our own country.

Paul: U.S government has no authority to do so. Direct attention to national security.

Brownback: Need to stand up in face of genocide. Need to say never again. Support African Union troops but not use our own troops.

Tancredo: Moral responsibility to act, but not send troops. Use United Nations.

Hunter: Humanitarian effort and teach villages self defense.

Keyes: We cannot turn our backs on this. Don’t have to send troops but need to help.

My Take:
Ron Paul really upset me here in that he basically said we should do nothing about genocide. This is really just inhumane. All the rest had good answers, that I mostly agreed with. I definitely agree that we should not send troops and need to focus more on the humanitarian effort. I liked how Huckabee mentioned that we also have problems here and that we need to help our own that are impoverished while also helping the world. Overall though I would have to, and I can't believe I am doing this again, say Sam Brownback had the best plan. While others said they did not want to use our troops they did not say exactly who we would support or how we would help. Brownback showed that he would put support to the African Union's troops and seemed to have the most common sense diplomatic answer.

Winner: Sam Brownback
Loser: Ron Paul

Death Penalty:
Paul: Does not believe in the death penalty. If your rich you get away with it, if your poor more likely to be prosecuted and convicted.

Brownback: Culture of life, that recognizes every life as a child of God. Limit death penalty to cases only when we cannot protect society from the individual, like Osama Bin Laden.

Tancredo: It is a state issue, but would support continuation of the death penalty especially for treason.

Hunter: Death penalty can be used as form of deterrence, mentions Charles Manson.

Keyes: Supports death penalty.

Huckabee: Dislikes the death penalty because he had to carry it out. Did not enjoy it. It is a necessary part of our criminal justice system.

My Take:
Ron Paul was very strong in bringing up the discrepancies in our criminal justice system that occur because of one's financial status. Pretty much all of them support it and say about the same thing. I have to side with, and dammit I cannot believe I am doing this again, Sam Brownback. In that I do not support the death penalty but I think it should be available for extreme situations such as Osama Bin Laden. I basically agree with him that we should keep the right to use the death penalty but should use it only in the most necessary extreme cases.

Winner: Sam Brownback
Loser: Duncan Hunter (just for mentioning Charles Manson and deterrence in the same thought)

Final Thoughts:

I am left upset that the frontrunners were so spineless as to not even show to this forum on minority issues. I am left thinking how all Americans are going to get screwed in 2008, in that the general election will only include one member of each party which will inevitably be one of the frontrunners for each party while the rest are just ignored. I am left upset at the arrogance of the frontrunners who just blow off these forums the same way that Hillary Clinton blows off any question she does not feel like answering.

Overall Winner: Mike Huckabee