Third Party & Independents: Archives

Let me beat the neo-cons to the punch…

If you’re not doing anything wrong, then what’s the problem?

OK… so now that that has been thrown out there, let’s move on…

This is wrong on so many levels, but not surprising. The “civil liberties as an afterthought” highlighted in this letter is a hallmark of this administration. Although I fully agree the intentions are likely just, the outcome is not.

If the police need satellites then they should launch their own. I’m pretty sure using military and CIA assets for local police operations is unconstitutional.

If you’re not doing anything wrong, then what’s the problem?

Perhaps we should ask that question of Bush and cheney who have made every word of theirs so secret…and refuse to produce documents and witnesses which have been subpoenaed…

touche, Rachel… touche…

But don’t you know it’s different and we can’t possibly apply the same standards to our President that we can to joe-blow walking down the street eating a hot dog? C’mon, Rachel… everyone knows republican presidents are above the rule of law!

Doug, that is precisely what is WRONG with the Unitary Executive Theory, it puts the President above the law, free to author their own laws as they see fit to execute their responsibilities of office, however that president views them.

An Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin would love to have been elected to an office with the power of the Unitary Executive view of the U.S. Constitution. Fidel Castro exercised Unitary Executive power from the very beginning.

If the police need satellites then they should launch their own.

Don’t give them any ideas…

Yet, our borders and ports are still near wide-open.
It’s difficult to take Homeland Security seriously when the government ignores this one humongous gaping hole in security. After all, terrorists have already been confirmed trespassing our borders. Thus, is the goal really homeland security, or control over citizens?

Does anyone think KGB when reading all this crap? What sort of monster is Homeland Security evolving into?

RickIL, it was the agency designed to allay the fears of the fearful in government and their supporters. Fear trumps Constitution and law - the basic premise of the Bush Administration’s policies, politics, and outcomes.

Larry Craigs little problem with the public restroom peeping conviction has opened the eyes of the bush crime family. They do not want to be exposed with their little peeping program!!!!!!! With their satellite program, no one can see whose restroom stall they are peeping into!!!!! Imagine if they have some good photos of their political opposition or anyone, they could use blackmail to control anyone!!!!!

Once they have their satellite peeping program in place there is no stopping these predators!!!!!!! What does this picture look like to you?????? We have the republican crime wave creating this countries largest corporate welfare program, deregulation of business, and now a satellite peeping program for you and me!!!!!! Bin Laden has opened his own recording studio some where near a health spa, and we have the bush crime family members spying on us in public restrooms!!!!!! What will it take before people wakeup and stop the madness?????? It has been six years now and Bin Laden looks better than ever!!!!!! What are we doing??????? Did we loss track of what we where going to do six years ago?????

Maybe Bin Laden should run on the republican ticket for the next election!!!! He does not seem to be anymore corrupt or ruthless than any one else!!!!!! Who is the enemy here???? Every day the republican crime wave puts another nail in our coffin!!!!!

RickIL, it was the agency designed to allay the fears of the fearful in government and their supporters.

I disagree, David, but that under this administration it was made into an agency to instill and enhance fear in those not fearful enough.

David & Sandra

I agree with you both. I think that the initial premise was made with good intentions. But I also recall at the time that it was all coming on too fast and furious to avoid needed scrutiny. I also recall that they used fear as propaganda to hurry it along. I believe the Bush admin and republican party saw in the organization of this agency an opportunity under their watch to take advantage and use it to further an underlying agenda. Of course we all by this time are well aware of their attempts at changing law to diminish our civil liberties and further enhance the powers of the executive. It is unfortunate that Bush has chosen to use the agency and the office of attorney general to manipulate the rule of law to benefit a republican power grab. I wonder just how low these people can sink. It may be that we really do not want to find out.

I think that along those lines, RickIL, Bush doesn’t feel he has much to lose, and he’s probably pretty safe with the assumption that he is a “short timer” and pretty untouchable. He has to be emboldened by the lack of action taken by congress, even with the “mandate” they had going into the last session, and the inability of the public to move them into action.
Think we should buckle up and hold on !!

David,

I’m always on a different page than everyone else, but if we have technology this well refined why can’t we see the Iranian’s delivering devices to Iraqi’s to blow up our troops?

I can pull up a “google map” and see the top of my son’s pickup truck at his farm or in the parking lot of the factory where he works. I can identify his truck by the stuff he has in the bed of the truck.

I can pull up a map that shows whether my car is in the garage or outside. Which is pretty cool when you can’t get around much, but if I can do that why can’t the CIA show us evidence of Iran supplying “stuff” to Iraq?

I’ve really been wondering about stuff like this. I understand that it’s harder to see things in cities than it is in the boondocks, but still …….. we should be seeing video of Iran delivering this stuff, eh????????????

Kansas Dem, your comment also raises in my mind a comparable question. Why are we not seeing and tracking the supplies to OBL’s camp in Pakistan? Or, worse, we are!

In the movie The Postman, the General has a line that may fit here. He said as best I can remember it, “Great men were made by other great men. Patton had Rommel. Grant had Lee!” Perhaps Bush feels he needs OBL in the same way.

RickIL, my fear is the next President will not be willing to relinquish the power Bush will hand them, and that party politics in the Congress will not strip powers acquired away.

Sandra, agreed, he only needs to pass the Iraq buck to the next president and then the blame for the outcome is no longer his, in his mind. I don’t think objective historians will go along, but, willfully biased conservative historians will surely write this period that way. I have little doubt Bush has already been assured that will be the case.

Think we should buckle up and hold on !!

You may be right Sandra. There probably is nothing more dangerous than a stubborn empowered fool with nothing to lose. I think it imperative that we continue to remind our congress that a majority of us citizens are not happy with this situation and expect change. I suspect that politics was the main motivating factor behind the support of this Bush policy. They would not want to give the repubs the oppurtunity to throw it back in their faces in the event of another terrorist catastrophe between now and election time.

I think it very sad that in todays government, when there is so much at stake, politics seems to be the main motivation in such serious matters. It seems to me that party dominance has turned into the main focus of our legislators.

David

RickIL, my fear is the next President will not be willing to relinquish the power Bush will hand them, and that party politics in the Congress will not strip powers acquired away.

Ditto David. This is not a matter that can be allowed to slide into the shadows. We must continue discussion and remind our legislators that we expect this legislation to be rescinded at some point.

Doug Langworthy

If you’re not doing anything wrong, then what’s the problem?

If ya only knew the number of time I’ve heard this lame argument and, it’s only a minor intrusion on your privacy. Why are ya hollering if ya aint doing nothing? From those that don’t understand the relationship between privacy and freedom.
The real question is, Just how many ‘minor intrusions’ does it take before all your privacy is gone? And when your privacy is gone, so is your freedom.
I’ve also heard the lame argument from these same folks that if it helps to catch criminals it can’t be all bad.
LIKE HELL!!!!!!!!! Every intrusion the government makes on the privacy of it’s citizens the more power it gains over them. The more power it gains, the more freedom it takes from them.
Like I’ve said before, it aint the business of ANY government or government agency what I’m doing as a law abiding citizen. And it aint their business what your doing either.

If you deposit more than $10,000 into your bank account the government gets told.
If you withdraw more than $10,000 from your bank account the government gets told.
If you buy more than $1,000 in money orders the government gets told.
If ya buy or sell a gun the government is told.
If you spit out the window at a stop light the government sees ya.
All these are ‘just slight intrusions’ on your privacy. And every one is designed to gain more control over you.
WHEN PRIVACY IS GONE, SO IS FREEDOM!

The mission of the military is to defend this country against it’s enemies. Not spy on it’s citizens. Using the Military to spy on us is not only wrong, it’s an affront to every law abiding citizen of this great nation.
If Congress allows this they’re showing the same contempt for the folks that put them in office and Bush is by proposing such an outrage.

1984 is coming. It’s just a few years late.

Correction
They’re showing the same contempt for the folks that put them in office and as Bush is by proposing such an out rage.

Continuity of Government

From 1980 to November 1982, Allen was detailed to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, where he was deputy director of a continuity of government planning project. A colleague quoted Allen as saying during a COG meeting, “our job is to throw the Constitution out the window.” His assignment to the COG project brought him into contact with Oliver North, who was delegated to monitor COG’s findings by National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane.

[Eclipse: The Last Days of the CIA, Mark Perry, 1992, p. 215.]

Go ahead a break the law by implementing this October 1st without Congressional approval is a criminal act. Upon this action we should all call for the Boy Scouts resignation and then put him on trial for breaking the law. Allen is least of all not above the law like he so arrogantly testified as such before Congress.

The satellites will no doubt will be used for surveying the COG secret domestic detention centers to prevent escape. Would not want that kind of witness too get out for the world to see.

Ron said: “WHEN PRIVACY IS GONE, SO IS FREEDOM!”

That was one of the key fundamental premises of Orwell’s prophetic “1984”. It, “Animal Farm”, and Huxley’s “Brave New World” should be required reading for all 10th graders in America. Then things like this would not be tolerated or get as far as they do. But, Republicans in Texas who control the text book censorship for school books for a large number of states, find such readings “upsetting” and inappropriate for High School students. Why should they know of such things as tyranny, dictatorship, sophistry, and the subtle arts of usurpation of power? Such concepts could damage them, permanently from seeing the world as the controllers and ‘takers’ intend.

“Instinct” has become one of my all time favorite movies. Prophetic in its own right of what is to come when Americans are forced to defend their families in times of decline wrought by the ‘takers’.

David
The best way to control people is to keep them ignorant. If books like 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World were required reading the government argueably might not be able to steal our rights as easily as they are.
But IMO if the Constitution was actually taught in school and kids had to pass a test on it to graduate high school, the government would never be able to gain as much power as it’ getting. When folks know the Constitution, they will know when the government is pulling a fast one on them trying to take rights away. And if they know when the government is attacking their rights they’ll act to correct the problem.
As it is right now most folks don’t even know what the Constitution is much less what it says. And the is getting away with these unconstitutional attacks on our freedom.

That should read: And the government is getting away with these attacks on our freedom.

It is sad, but privacy is dead. From a privacy and civil liberties perspective, we realistically should be more concerned about the largely unrestrained consumer data reporting industry (background check databases, marketing data, credit records.

I oppose this satellite program simply because it is a huge waste of money. If you look at the motivations behind this — it is to put an additional application and funding rationale under some equipment that is very, very expensive to build and operate. It is also simply a matter of finding something for a new domestic, secret intelligence bureaucracy to do. What appalls me about this is that a dime of taxpayer money will be spent on something that by design will be unaccountable.

Michael Keenan wrote
A colleague quoted Allen as saying during a COG meeting, “our job is to throw the Constitution out the window.”

You must be wrong. How could someone like this get through a confirmation hearing? ;->